A little info about the legal system in reference to Ebola May's DUI/Waiter post. (2588 hits)
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Submitted by Kaelic <scarletranger.at.yahoo.com> (View user info) at 2007-04-10 15:08:46 EDT
I had to think about this one for a little while due to some of the comments people made about how he fucked up his own life. That may be true, I don't know the details of his case, but let me give you a little background info:
The legal system is rough on people over 18 who have made mistakes. The actually have a name for it now: The digital scarlet letter. Why? Because like Hester Prynne from the novel "The scarlet letter", you can never escape your mistakes. They're posted on the world wide web for anyone with a computer and a credit card to access. Who suffers the most?
Well anyone who breaks the law suffers in some way by being automatically judged as less valuable to society than a non-law breaker, but four classes of offenders suffer the most. They are:
Anyone who commits a felony. These people have it the hardest. Say you are jumped by four drunk frat boys weilding pipes. Say that you are sober and you manage to fight them all off, wresting the pipe from one of them and doing sever damage to one of their faces. Say you put him in a coma. It was justified, right?
Probably not. In this case, you have the word's of three of the "victim's" friends vs your word. Who do you think the prosecutor is going to believe? That's right, the three frat boys. Hello aggravated assault with a deadly weapon charges, if you're lucky. Attempted murder is more like it when you get some small balls prosecutor who is trying to get a raise.
Now when you get out of prison ins five years, it's all butter, right? Wrong. Now you can't find a job, no one will hire you because you're a convicted felon. Even if somehow you manage to beat the charges, ANYONE can pull up your arrest report and see that you were charged with attempted murder or aggravated assault or whatever. That might as well be a conviction. Who do you want to hire, Johnny Clean Record or Johnny Arrest record? Right, like any reasonable employer, you want the clean record. And that's totally understandable.
Now this situation or scenario could play out in a dozen ways, and does, every day. Even if you were extremely lucky and made a plea deal for just probation, you are still boned. You still have the record, the NCIC report still reads like a conviction, and you're STILL SHIT OUT OF LUCK.
The other two categories are misdemeanors, but that doesn't matter. DUI and drug charges will also ruin your life. DUI disqualifies you for many government programs and any type of drug charge disqualifies you from government housing, welfare, financial aid for college, almost any federal program. DUI carries a terrible stigma that belies it's misdemeanor status. Again, even if you somehow beat the case, the CHARGE remains on your record and ANYONE can see it. You're screwed.
The last category is sex offenders. Don't get me wrong, these scum bags deserve the worst the system has to offer. Or do they?
Take the rather common example of an 18 year old dating a 16 year old. They met in high school, fell in love, whatever. He turns 19 and she remains 16 (at least for a period of time.) No big deal, right? No one would bat an eyelash at a 39 year old dating a 36 year old, right?
Let's just say, and this is for kicks, that he meets a more mature girl in college. Furious, his 16 year iold ex-girlfriend tells her parents they have been having sex. The parents call the prosecutor and the next thing you know, the 19 year old is a SEX OFFENDER. He must now register wherever he lives, probably will not be able to find housing (most places openly discriminate against sex offenders) and his life is pretty much ruined. Is that justice? When I think of a sex offender, the image of some dude that looks like Shlongy touching little boys in his van springs to mind, not some dude who broke up with his girlfriend from high school and then got reported due to revenge.
This happens WAY more often than you would imagine. There can be no true rehabilitation for those charged or cinvicted of a crime. You will always have the record, and in most cases expungement or sealing does nothing. It simply reads as a footnote, "case was expunged/or sealed". Well holy shit, I bet that makes your potential employer feel better about those aggravated assault/attempted murder/drunk driving charges. Now you look like a violent, deranged criminal HIDING something.
My only point is, before you go blaming people for their situation, remember that some people truly are a victim of the system and circumstances. The law works to protect people, but it can very easily ruin your life or the life of someone you love if they ever get caught in it's infernal gears. It is indiscriminate about fucking up your future and you would do well to watch every episode of Law & Order, have a good lawyer on retainer, and at least be informed about how these things work.
At the very least, try to show some compassion for someone who made a mistake once in their life. They say there are two kinds of criminals: Those who got caught and those that didn't. If anyone here has NEVER done anything illegal that you could be charged with had someone been looking, I tip my hat to you. You are also a filthy fucking liar.
User Reviews
Submitted by MidnightToSix (user info) at 2007-04-13 16:02:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Much of the rising generation of law enforcement officers see the civilian population as an enemy to be subdued, as opposed to fellow citizens whose rights are to be respected and protected."
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2007-04-13 15:07:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hello.
Submitted by sideshow (user info) at 2007-04-12 19:46:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've never had a problem with employment, even though I've been charged and convicted of possesion of marijuana. I've also had a 24 hour license suspension and I've blown into a breathalyser twice, once blowing 0.00 and once blowing 0.02. the second time, I had been drinking and I had been smoking weed, but I was honest about all of it. They wanted to tow my car and impound it and take me away, but I demanded a breathalyser because i knew I was sober. I blew 0.02 and they took my weed and let me off. They didn't even tow my car because I was polite, honest, and cooperative. Actually, they even let me keep my pipe!
But with all that, I've had no problems finding and keeping jobs...and I do pretty well.
I enjoyed this post, although the back and forth bickering got really annoying.
Submitted by c1ndy (user info) at 2007-04-12 15:40:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No Comment
Submitted by Missmouse (user info) at 2007-04-12 14:49:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Americans are real fucking whiners. We should be grateful we even have a justice system. Or would you rather be shot on sight, or imprisoned for 20 years without a trial?
Although, come to think of it, I think we're going in that direction anyway. Guantanamo Bay...
Submitted by Barnymeinhoff (user info) at 2007-04-12 14:35:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
If you drive whilst drunk you are a selfish cunt who deserves to loose the right to drive for life and if you fuck somone under the age of concent you are a fucking peodophile no matter where you met or how much you wuvs them.
I dont really have a problem with drugs, driving on drugs or fucking kids whilst on drugs.
America is a facist dictatorship. that 3 stikes thin is fucking spooky.
Y'all should use some of that cheap fule you all have and drive to a civilised country.
Submitted by corn_nugget (user info) at 2007-04-12 07:55:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It kills me to agree with you, since you tend to be a jackass, but my dislike from you is minimal in the face of a decent point-of-view conveyed in a reasonable manner.
Submitted by GMCrayon (user info) at 2007-04-12 06:35:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hey i heard you're a firefighter/emt
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2007-04-11 21:51:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i have some pretty heavy shit on my record and i got the job i wanted.
BOOSH!!!
there's always ways around the system, depending on the offense. i was honest about my record with my employer when i was interviewed and i got the job.
ps- i just got another big raise and a pretty sweet promotion. and with a record!
BOOSH!!!
pps- this post was queer as fuck.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2007-04-11 21:31:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2007-04-10 15:54:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
WELL, I SURE AS HELL SUPPORT DRUNK JET SKIIING!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO POWER HIGH FIVE!
Submitted by sideshow (user info) at 2007-04-11 19:23:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-10 16:22:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 15:10:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Also, anyone interested enough to read all this shit, congratulations. I hope the information is useful to you in some way.
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I did.
Thanks.
It wasn't, but I enjoyed it.
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I enjoyed the comments more!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-11 18:54:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
he didn't complain...he made a comparison of the level of comfort between soldiers and prisoners.
AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN READ ENGLISH?
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2007-04-11 18:15:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
A soldier complaining about sleeping outside.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Guess they mislead you in the brochures, huh?
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2007-04-11 17:23:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by particle_man58 (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:43:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Kaelic.... you are a very ignorant person if you think FP would get in trouble for any thing he has said here. Seriously dude, I say wayyy worse shit than that all the fuckin time, and I never get in trouble. My First Sergeant talks about what a fuckin moron Bush is all the time!
You gotta remember that everyone in the Army is a normal person, each with our own views and opinions. We're not a bunch of fuckin mindless, facless drones. The only thing we get in trouble for is bad mouthing public officials in uniform, or speaking on behalf of our units and other soldiers without permission.
I agree with you on some of your points, what with the sex offender thing. But I also go with FP on a lot more points.
If it were up to me prisons would be nothing more than box with no windows a fuckin cot and pot to piss in. There have been times when I slept in a fucking hole in the ground, and didn't shower for weeks at a time. When murders and rapists live better than Soldiers there is something wrong.
america soldiers ARE murderers and rapists.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-04-11 17:08:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Maybe the DUI would be better if it became a firefigther... like KAELIC, fuck yah!
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2007-04-11 16:55:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
You're eschewing some maturity in this post.
Submitted by Casus_Belli (user info) at 2007-04-11 16:01:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yup
Submitted by Director (user info) at 2007-04-11 13:01:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
internet cat fight below.
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2007-04-11 12:18:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:02:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If you think otherwise, then you need to stop watching movies and learn what the military really is.
A big disorganized mess like the rest of the government? That's a pretty accurate guess.
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2007-04-11 12:16:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I saw a bunch of firefighters the other day. They were playing corntoss and watching women walk on the beach.
I'm sure it's a tough life.
Submitted by particle_man58 (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:43:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Kaelic.... you are a very ignorant person if you think FP would get in trouble for any thing he has said here. Seriously dude, I say wayyy worse shit than that all the fuckin time, and I never get in trouble. My First Sergeant talks about what a fuckin moron Bush is all the time!
You gotta remember that everyone in the Army is a normal person, each with our own views and opinions. We're not a bunch of fuckin mindless, facless drones. The only thing we get in trouble for is bad mouthing public officials in uniform, or speaking on behalf of our units and other soldiers without permission.
I agree with you on some of your points, what with the sex offender thing. But I also go with FP on a lot more points.
If it were up to me prisons would be nothing more than box with no windows a fuckin cot and pot to piss in. There have been times when I slept in a fucking hole in the ground, and didn't shower for weeks at a time. When murders and rapists live better than Soldiers there is something wrong.
If I had my way anyone convicted of to death would be fuckin publicly exicuted within 60 days of being sentenced, not fuckin 20 years later. And it wou;dn't be that pussy lethal injection shit of the chair, it would be hanging or a firing squad.
Do you realize it costs over $30,000 a year to keep one man on death row. Its fuckin bullshit. This country has become totally pussified over the years. Its sad and it makes me fuckin sick.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:40:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know a lot of people in the army, and none of them are (openly) like Foolproof (although there are a lot of dipshits, for sure.)
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:38:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:10:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Uh, one of my best friend's is an E7 up in D.C. at the Old Guard. I'm actually probably going to join the Army when I finish school. I know all about the military.
What I'm referencing is how fucking stupid your shithead opinions make you sound. If you told anyone about them, they'd write you off as a total asshole. Regardless of what you think, having the respect of others around you is a key aspect to happiness in life. I seriously doubt anyone would like (not that they do now) if you expressed to them what a bunch of pussies we all are here in America because we don't chop peoples hands off you stupid fucking asshole. Clear enough for you now, dumbass?
======================
I'm sure that there aren't very many assholes in the army. It's not like the government spends billions of dollars to make become cold hard killing machines. You're about a group of people who get basically get paid to kill and fucking destroy anything, anywhere, anytime.
How can you expect them to have liberal kitten cuddling views of the world?
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:36:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It all depends on the circumstances, clearly. I don't see the two as being similar. You group all felonies categorically as very bad. That's why they have, and I know you've heard of this, degrees. Like murder is a 1st degree felony, whereas aggravated assault is a 3rd degree felony. Yes, my buddy did get screwed, but if you reach out there, you will find a lot of other people have, as well. That's why mitigating factors would need to be taken into account. Clearly science can prove that the age of the offender dictates recidivism. A teenager who is severely scared and punished is unlikely to commit a similar crime (except in the case of felon drug dealers who find no other way to make money and fall back into their old lifestyle). That's why I, and the law, refer to these things as isolated incidents.
Thankfully Charlie Crist has decided to make it a much easier process for felons to restore their civil rights. I think that's a step in the right direction. However, for people with one brush with the law (that didn't result in another person being killed or maimed), they should be able to have their records removed and treated as if they had never been criminals.
Submitted by steph (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:34:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I understand what you're saying, but there are an awful lot of programs out there too. Some of the people I go to college with get free tuition because they were in prison. Must be nice.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:29:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:57:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Based on the severity, of course. Some mistakes are too severe to forgive. Raping, murdering, molesting. Getting into a brawl and being the only one charged doesn't fall into that category. Minor, isolated incidents don't fall into that category. But for Indoninja, once a criminal, always a criminal.
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You are a hypocrite.
Unless you would let a felony child molestor babysit your kid you don't have a leg to stand on when you say someone convicted of felony aggrivated assault should be allowed to be a cop.
I am sure your buddy was a good guy who just got screwed, but couldn't he same be said for the molestor? Maybe he met a girl at the mall who looked 18 drove her home kissed her and she turned out to be 13 and then me made up a story about being fondled. Why should your buddy get benefit of the doubt but not some accused child toucher?
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:27:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Do the world a favor and put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger. Don't wait five years when you're out of the army, you're all alone, and your health is failing. Just do it now. Spare us all from your views.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:15:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:10:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Uh, one of my best friend's is an E7 up in D.C. at the Old Guard. I'm actually probably going to join the Army when I finish school. I know all about the military.
What I'm referencing is how fucking stupid your shithead opinions make you sound. If you told anyone about them, they'd write you off as a total asshole. Regardless of what you think, having the respect of others around you is a key aspect to happiness in life. I seriously doubt anyone would like (not that they do now) if you expressed to them what a bunch of pussies we all are here in America because we don't chop peoples hands off you stupid fucking asshole. Clear enough for you now, dumbass?
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Do the Army a favor - Join the Air Force.
They have firefighters, the Army doesn't.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:10:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Uh, one of my best friend's is an E7 up in D.C. at the Old Guard. I'm actually probably going to join the Army when I finish school. I know all about the military.
What I'm referencing is how fucking stupid your shithead opinions make you sound. If you told anyone about them, they'd write you off as a total asshole. Regardless of what you think, having the respect of others around you is a key aspect to happiness in life. I seriously doubt anyone would like (not that they do now) if you expressed to them what a bunch of pussies we all are here in America because we don't chop peoples hands off you stupid fucking asshole. Clear enough for you now, dumbass?
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:02:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I told you; the people I work with already know how I feel. Why wouldn't I tell them? You think I'm not allowed personal opinions just because I'm military? You think that we all just march around in formation repeating "Sir, YES, Sir!"? Ask anybody here in the military. It's just a normal job. We lead normal lives. We go home at night, just like you do. We have fun on weekends and days off. We don't just stay in uniform, military mindset 100% of the time. We haven't lost any rights that a normal citizen has.
I can say and do whatever the hell I want, as long as it's legal. I'm not commanded to follow the beliefs of my superiors.
I'm atheist, too. Think I'll get punished for saying God sucks cock?
Nope. I can say that. freedom of Speech, motherfucker. We defend it, we are fully allowed to use it.
Ask anybody else here, current or former military. I would never be punished for anything I have ever said here.
If you think otherwise, then you need to stop watching movies and learn what the military really is.
Submitted by DeathJester (user info) at 2007-04-11 11:02:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The system is borked.
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:59:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.ubersite.com/m/60300
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:58:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"Hey Kaelic, great post! Are you going to do anything to celebrate?"
"the image of some dude that looks like Shlongy touching little boys in his van springs to mind"
"Ahhh... this interview is over."
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:57:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Based on the severity, of course. Some mistakes are too severe to forgive. Raping, murdering, molesting. Getting into a brawl and being the only one charged doesn't fall into that category. Minor, isolated incidents don't fall into that category. But for Indoninja, once a criminal, always a criminal.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:53:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It was a rhetorical question. I asked it because Foolproof is too much of a pussy to e-mail his own views to people he knows. He's just another super tough internet bad ass. I'm not nor would I ever e-mail someone's supervisor about some internet shit. I was just asking if he stood by his insane convictions enough to tell people in "real life" about them, which it turns out he doesn't or else he WOULD.
As for Indoninja, dude, there is no winning with you. You see first time youthful offenders in the same boat as child molesters and murderers. Everyone is a criminal to you, and once a criminal, always a criminal. I'm pretty sure we all understand that you actually don't believe in complete rehabilitation if you can't allow someone who has made a mistake in their past completely equal footing in life after they have proven it was an isolated incident.
Submitted by awj002 (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:31:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
the majority of offenders are in prison are nonviolent offenders. a large portion are there on drug charges, even first time offenses. we should be easier on these folks than violent offenders, but -- did you know drug offenders often receive longer sentences than rapists, especially on repeat offense?
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:23:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by GetNakeddd (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:22:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 16:59:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
MP, huh? That's cool, too. So would you be cool if I e-mailed your supervising officer this post? If you're so proud of your views, surely you wouldn't mind expressing them to the people you work with right?
No? Well then shut the fuck up then.
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Kaelic, I was kind of impartial to both arguments until I read this. Then it just made you look stupid. Threatening to email this to his boss? Big man you are, sir
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But he won't do it. I don't know why. If he had a hair on his ass, he'd just man up and email it.
Submitted by GetNakeddd (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:22:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 16:59:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
MP, huh? That's cool, too. So would you be cool if I e-mailed your supervising officer this post? If you're so proud of your views, surely you wouldn't mind expressing them to the people you work with right?
No? Well then shut the fuck up then.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kaelic, I was kind of impartial to both arguments until I read this. Then it just made you look stupid. Threatening to email this to his boss? Big man you are, sir
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:19:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by PerkMan (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:25:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
My friend went to a bar and got pressured into having one drink. Yep just one drink. He on the way gets pulled over for expired tabs. The cop asks if he had anything to drink. He says yes and reiterates that it was one drink. They breathalyzer him and he is exactly at .08 the limit. They take him to jail and charge him with a DUI. I tell him to deny everything but this idiot takes the deal and is sentenced to like driving school, community service etc...
So just a week ago this idiot again hasn't completed his driving school, or any of the court ordered things he has to do to get back his license. But he thinks that as long as he doesn't drive he is good. WRONG. We get pulled over for a routine traffic stop. They ask for I.D.s he doesn't have his but he being a fucking idiot to the system gives his real name and everything. He finds out he has a Warrant for his arrest for the DUI. 15,000 dollars bail and he was locked up for 3 days. He is now fucked. But he doesn't realize it. He thinks "Everyone gets DUI's" Not a big deal. He's going to realize real soon that the law doesn't fuck around.
This guy wasn't some raging drunk, or a big time Drunk driver. He just had one drink and told the cops honestly what he did. The wrong thing he fucking did. Moral of the story if you have had 15 shots of E&J, plus drank 12 beers, you get pulled over always refuse the Breathalyzer. Always. It's the burden of the proof of the state to prove that you're guilty. Don't incriminate yourself dumbasses. 2 days in the drunk tank and having a good lawyer get you off. Is better than 1hr in the police station and a DUI stain on your record.
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Refusing the breathalyzer doesn't always work.
Some states will automatically revoke your license for 1 year upon refusal. No questions asked.
Also, the breatalyzer is not the only thing that can lead to conviction.
There are these signals that drunks give:
Falling down
Reeking of alcohol
Bloodshot eyes
Slurred speech
etc etc
All of these go into an officer's report and the judge can use them alone to convict. Plus, there is the almighty eye - the dashcam. Can't say shit when the camera catches everything.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-11 10:05:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Give up, Indo. The firefighter/emt will never admit that he's wrong. Firefighter /emts like this give other firefighter/emts a bad name. I mean, if a firefighter/emt can't see that these people made the choice to become felons, then this firefighter/emt lives in a dream world of puppy rainow kisses and magic kitten farts.
Firefighter/emt.
Submitted by TheScaryGuy11 (user info) at 2007-04-11 09:51:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 Since I've got enough cops in my family to know that they are all completely sober assholes all of the time.
P.S. I hate cops.
P.S.S. Firefighters are some of the worst hockey players I've ever known
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-11 09:50:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 08:44:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There in right there lies the basis of my argument:
Indoninja:
"If you think I am heartless just because I think a felon can't get their dream job you seriously need to re-evaluate problems with the judicial system."
A felon. That person, for the rest of their life, whether they have become a doctor, or whatever, are always a felon first. If the kid didn't bash in anyone's head, if he just got the charge for, I dunno, POINTING an unloaded gun at someone as a practical joke, does he still deserve to never be allowed to pursue his dream job? In my OPINION, the answer is no. That's my opinion, so calling it retarded doesn't lend any validity to your opinion, which I see as worthless horseshit from a pompous, receding hairline having dumbass who thinks he is better than everyone else. Hey, just my opinion though.
And you answered your own question, Indoninja. Yes, the kid did become a productive member of society. Yes, in that regard the legal system worked. So why continue punishing him? Why punish him for the rest of his life?
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The world is filled with people who can't get their dream job. Sorry I don't lose sleep over it, especially when the reason someone can't get their dream job is because they made the choice to deliberately break the law (which was the case for the one single person you could find who was qualified but couldn't get the job they wanted).
You keep making up these stupid fucking unrealistic scenarios to prove your point, but it isn't helping your argument. If some kid is 18 and is stupid enough to run around pointing guns at people for fun, then no I wouldn't want him given a badge, a gun, and power to use it. Can you honestly say that given the choice between to equal candidates you would want the guy who thinks point guns at people is funny to be the cop on your street? As long as we are making up unlikely scenarios how about this. If that same guy was allowed to be a cop, and then later shot your son while playing another prank would you sue the force for allowing someone with a history if irresponsible behavior on the force? I know I would. I would bet money that 99% of the people in the US would.
I would rather a hundred ex-cons don't get their dream jobs than have one put in a position where they can hurt or kill someone. Unless you would hire a babysitter who had a one time conviction for molesting a child you are in the same boat as me, except you refuse to look at the whole issue. Yes some people would probably never do the same type of stuff but I am honest enough to know I wouldn't want to risk it. Call me heartless, but I think to believe this is a serious problem in the judicial system means you live in fucking la-la land.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-11 08:44:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There in right there lies the basis of my argument:
Indoninja:
"If you think I am heartless just because I think a felon can't get their dream job you seriously need to re-evaluate problems with the judicial system."
A felon. That person, for the rest of their life, whether they have become a doctor, or whatever, are always a felon first. If the kid didn't bash in anyone's head, if he just got the charge for, I dunno, POINTING an unloaded gun at someone as a practical joke, does he still deserve to never be allowed to pursue his dream job? In my OPINION, the answer is no. That's my opinion, so calling it retarded doesn't lend any validity to your opinion, which I see as worthless horseshit from a pompous, receding hairline having dumbass who thinks he is better than everyone else. Hey, just my opinion though.
And you answered your own question, Indoninja. Yes, the kid did become a productive member of society. Yes, in that regard the legal system worked. So why continue punishing him? Why punish him for the rest of his life?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-11 07:14:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:21:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's the difference between what I'll call "total rehabilitation" completely leaving behind any trace of the original offense to move forward with their lives and becomes fulfilled and productive members of society and the "Indoninja and Foolproof wrath of righteous vengence" method which is "Fuck 'em, they made one mistake, they should pay for it for the rest of their lives. I, on the other hand, have NEVER made a mistake, look at how great I am, wheee!"
----------------------------
Where in any of my arguments did I say anything resembling that?
In fact I went out of my way repeatedly to mention that ex-cons should not be forced to stay on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder.
Not being allowed to be a certain type of principal or a cop is hardly a life long punishment. Just because you or one of your friends decided to use a weapon to try and bash someone's head in when they were 18 and can't be a cop is hardly an indication of how unfair the judicial system is. Your arguments are so pathetic it is hardly worth responding. If you think that is a huge problem with justice in this country then we are doing fucking great. Let me ask you this is that kid who got the aggrivated assault conviction when he was 18 now a productive member of society? That principal who stole seems to be. Isn't that proof that the system works?
If you think I am heartless just because I think a felon can't get their dream job you seriously need to re-evaluate problems with the judicial system. There are much bigger things to be concerned about than your dumbass friend who can't become a cop.
Submitted by ChaosJester (user info) at 2007-04-11 05:05:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 15:58:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Your views are what has turned this country into a penal state already, Foolproof. Incarcerating more people than any other country on earth. Can't you just look at our sky rocketing crime and murder rates and realize putting MORE people in jail and then punishing the ones who have already been punished even after they get out, for the rest of their life, doesn't solve the problem?
I only hope you get a taste of it one day. How quickly your tune of righteous fury would change to, "This isn't fair, please forgive me!" then.
***************************************************
Sky-rocketing crime?!
It's my understanding that, once you factor in population growth, violent crime has actually decreased in the U.S.A. over the past decade.
Still, I could be wrong. What are you're facts?
Submitted by ChaosJester (user info) at 2007-04-11 04:56:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 15:42:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"The legal system is rough on people over 18 who have made mistakes."
----
Putting Miracle Whip on a sandwich instead of mayo is a mistake.
Using a blue pen instead of a black pen is a mistake.
Taking a left instead of a right is a mistake.
DUI is a fucking choice.
Understand? HE chose to drink. HE chose to drive. HE got caught. HE is at fault. HE didn't make a mistake.
HE made a fucking decision to break the god damned law, endagering countless lives in the process.
Fucking Americans think everything they do wrong is simply a mistake that is to forgiven. If I had my way, there would be NO DUI or DWI laws. These choices would amount to attempted homocide. That's what it is when you DECIDE to DRINK then get behind the WHEEL!
Fucking mistake my ass. I a perfect worl he would be dead.
*********************************************
Amen, brother...
Submitted by ChristPuncher (user info) at 2007-04-11 00:20:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree well written post
anyone who doesnt agree is a lily livered dreamin starbucks customer who thinks she or she can change the world
GO BULLS AND WHOTE SOX WOO!!!
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2007-04-11 00:18:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
would have been a +2 had it not been for your stupid ass retarded devil's advocate arguments against every reasonable point. the post was somewhat intelligent. your 100 responses were the exact opposite.
it's ok to sometimes say, "hey, you know what? that's a good point, I didn't think of that."
Submitted by HawthorneHeights (user info) at 2007-04-11 00:13:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Gay.
The system works most of the time. If it fucks a couple of people over, sucks for them. Odds of them being me pitiful at best.
Carry on.
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2007-04-10 23:20:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ahahahahahaha @ Caul's last comment.
Also
===========
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2007-04-11 12:12:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
you wouldn't know humor if it got cancer at a young age and solicited money on the internet.
============
Damn, man. Just...damn.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 23:02:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i had a friend who failed the 'motion tests' (is that what they are called in EN?) so the police took him to the station because they had no breathalyzer in their car. he failed miserably but his lawyer argued that he wasn't handcuffed in the back of the cop car and they couldn't prove he didn't drink on the ride since they didn't search him either.
it was hilrious.
drunk driving is a stereotype of my home region. everybody does it...weeeeeeeeeee!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:56:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i never take the breathalyzer in case it indicates 'cockbreath' and the homophobe cops start crushing my skulls with batons and ruining my clothes.
Submitted by PerkMan (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:25:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
My friend went to a bar and got pressured into having one drink. Yep just one drink. He on the way gets pulled over for expired tabs. The cop asks if he had anything to drink. He says yes and reiterates that it was one drink. They breathalyzer him and he is exactly at .08 the limit. They take him to jail and charge him with a DUI. I tell him to deny everything but this idiot takes the deal and is sentenced to like driving school, community service etc...
So just a week ago this idiot again hasn't completed his driving school, or any of the court ordered things he has to do to get back his license. But he thinks that as long as he doesn't drive he is good. WRONG. We get pulled over for a routine traffic stop. They ask for I.D.s he doesn't have his but he being a fucking idiot to the system gives his real name and everything. He finds out he has a Warrant for his arrest for the DUI. 15,000 dollars bail and he was locked up for 3 days. He is now fucked. But he doesn't realize it. He thinks "Everyone gets DUI's" Not a big deal. He's going to realize real soon that the law doesn't fuck around.
This guy wasn't some raging drunk, or a big time Drunk driver. He just had one drink and told the cops honestly what he did. The wrong thing he fucking did. Moral of the story if you have had 15 shots of E&J, plus drank 12 beers, you get pulled over always refuse the Breathalyzer. Always. It's the burden of the proof of the state to prove that you're guilty. Don't incriminate yourself dumbasses. 2 days in the drunk tank and having a good lawyer get you off. Is better than 1hr in the police station and a DUI stain on your record.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:21:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's the difference between what I'll call "total rehabilitation" completely leaving behind any trace of the original offense to move forward with their lives and becomes fulfilled and productive members of society and the "Indoninja and Foolproof wrath of righteous vengence" method which is "Fuck 'em, they made one mistake, they should pay for it for the rest of their lives. I, on the other hand, have NEVER made a mistake, look at how great I am, wheee!"
Submitted by Axolotl (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:18:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
+1 for sentiment of forgiveness. People make mistakes, but there are some types of people and mistakes that should not be allowed to be repeated.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:17:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't think I ever made that assertion. I said young offenders who had an isolated incident. Most young offenders with isolated incidents aren't doctors stealing organs. They aren't cops taking bribes.
Yes, in those circumstances I agree they should not be placed in the same situation. Obviously a cop who betrays the public's trust by taking bribes can't be a cop anymore.
But an 18 year old kid who gets into a single fight, gets an aggravated assault felony charge should still have the chance to be a cop if that's what he wants to do. If five year's later he's a college graduate without any other incident and a sterling list of recommendations, why not? Is he somehow going to be any less of a cop because of that one incident? Give me a break.
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:12:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you wouldn't know humor if it got cancer at a young age and solicited money on the internet.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-10 22:06:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:38:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't see the distinction. Not being able to do what you want is not being able to do what you want, whether she works at McDonald's or whether she is a pirvate school teacher. Her dream is still unfulfilled. Again, it's very easy for you to show your complete lack of compassion by writing it off. It speaks volumes about your character.
The point is that the government says she has paid her debt. If the debt is paid, clear her record. Let her do what she wants to do. Again, allow me to reiterate that I do not feel this way about serial offenders. I am talking about a person who made one mistake.
------------------
If I was a pharmascist who stole drugs, I would never expect to be allowed to practice again after I got out.
If I was a doctor who stole organs, I wouldn't expect to ever be able to operate on anyone again after I got out.
If I was a Cop who was taking bribes, when I got out I wouldn't ever expect to be put in a position to do that again.
It isn't about forgiveness, it is about what is good for society, and when it comes to children they are the last group we should be taking chances with. She betrayed the publics trust by stealing (I don't know if it was one check or went on for years, it would make a difference). If I was hiring people where she was applying to be a public school principal I would be derelict in my duties if I chose to just sweep her history under the rug. If I was a parent of student there I would be rightfully outraged if she was hired.
I never said people who commmit crimes should be kept on the bottom rungs of society but there are life changing decisions that people make. Decisions that can and should bar them from certain fields for life.
I feel absolutely no sympathy for THIS woman. The differences between a public school and private school principal are laughable. She is hardly a suitable poster child for how the system is screwing X-cons over. If you really think this such a tragedy I wonder what misery the judicial system has caused your friends?
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:56:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:29:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:23:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Lungfish:
There are two types of people I distrust- Those who don't like music
and those who don't drink.
===
what about people who break into your house and rape your pets? do you mistrust those?
you're trying to sound like an old timer with vague words of wisdom.
*************
I'm not 'trying' to sound like anything. Lungfish knew EXACTLY what I meant. You, on the other hand, missed the point, as usual. Try to keep up, kid.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:51:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:46:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:44:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep talking about my hairline, boy.
===
???
are you indoninja's alter? mmm?
-------
Pshaw. Just one of my trademark bad jokes.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:48:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Uh, my head is a flowing mane of hair that looks like a cross between Goku of dragonall Z and that guy who played highlander in the TV series. I regularly have to shave it off and donate the clippings to make wigs for kids with cancer.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:46:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:44:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep talking about my hairline, boy.
===
???
are you indoninja's alter? mmm?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:46:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:43:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm just saying, your receding hairline makes you look like you do steroids. Also, I can do about 15 pullups.
===
from pictures, your hairline seems to recede too.
so does mine :~(
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:45:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:43:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Heh. I start losing count around 24.
I'm not getting much work again. Thanks, guys.
===
i got one task left before i'm done with this client. this is the longest 2 weeks notice in my entire life.
my boss is on strike duty (for the third time in 3 months) so i can come in for 2-3 hours and charge 8 :-D
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:44:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep talking about my hairline, boy.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:43:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm just saying, your receding hairline makes you look like you do steroids. Also, I can do about 15 pullups.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:43:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:41:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i can drink 24 beers in a night, on cocaine of course.
-------
Heh. I start losing count around 24.
I'm not getting much work again. Thanks, guys.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:41:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i can drink 24 beers in a night, on cocaine of course.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:40:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I can drink 12 beers before the first pee.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:38:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't see the distinction. Not being able to do what you want is not being able to do what you want, whether she works at McDonald's or whether she is a pirvate school teacher. Her dream is still unfulfilled. Again, it's very easy for you to show your complete lack of compassion by writing it off. It speaks volumes about your character.
The point is that the government says she has paid her debt. If the debt is paid, clear her record. Let her do what she wants to do. Again, allow me to reiterate that I do not feel this way about serial offenders. I am talking about a person who made one mistake.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:36:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:02:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
He said he could do 50 or something and I called him on it, then I noticed he had a super bad receding hairline and ever since then he has -2'd/disagreed with everything I have ever posted. I'm sorry, Indoninja! I'm sure you can do a hundred pull ups and your head of hair is a thick mane of manly waves that make lesser men like myself seethe in jealousy!
----------------------
http://www.ubersite.com/m/88468#1995465
I said I could do 23.
I used to do more but with running long distance I don't lift as much.
Just cause you dropped all your pay checks at GNC on supplements and still couldn't do 3 pull-ups doesn't mean people need steroids to do it.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:36:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:23:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Lungfish:
There are two types of people I distrust- Those who don't like music
and those who don't drink.
--------
Good man. I had to take a crap. Hence, the delayed response.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:32:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 20:59:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And my comment on the woman is this: She should be able to get the job at a public school. For one, public school principles don't make a lot of money. It's a sacrifice for someone with a doctorate to make. Secondly, she's been working as a private school principle. No money embezzled there, no youth corrupted by her sinister presence. She should be allowed a job at a public school. It's clear she's a completely different person. Sure, she might not being living in the slums, pan-handling for food money, but she is still being denied her dream. You (and Foolproof) suffer a complete lack of empathy for other human beings because you wrongly think you're better than them. It's hubris of epic proportions.
-----------------------
She wasn't a child when it happened. I am sorry but I believe the choices you make in life should have consequences. If she had a PhD and had a job working at Mcdonalds you would have a point, but having to work at a Private School instead of a Public school is a pretty small cross to bear for stealing from the public (no idea how long she served since the gov commuted her sentence, as far as I know this is her only punishment).
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:29:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:23:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Lungfish:
There are two types of people I distrust- Those who don't like music
and those who don't drink.
===
what about people who break into your house and rape your pets? do you mistrust those?
you're trying to sound like an old timer with vague words of wisdom.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:25:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Then, you're quite funny when you don't care. thx for not caring.
I happen to think Kaelic makes a good point or two. Oh...what the fuck...+2.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:23:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Lungfish:
There are two types of people I distrust- Those who don't like music
and those who don't drink.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:21:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul -- Good show in your reviews on this post. Did you exfoliate today or something?"""
no, i just don't care.
i packed my things during the night so i haven't slept a lot.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:20:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 20:59:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And my comment on the woman is this: She should be able to get the job at a public school. For one, public school principles don't make a lot of money. It's a sacrifice for someone with a doctorate to make. Secondly, she's been working as a private school principle. No money embezzled there, no youth corrupted by her sinister presence. She should be allowed a job at a public school. It's clear she's a completely different person. Sure, she might not being living in the slums, pan-handling for food money, but she is still being denied her dream. You (and Foolproof) suffer a complete lack of empathy for other human beings because you wrongly think you're better than them. It's hubris of epic proportions.
****************
"For one, public school principles don't make a lot of money."
Public school principals in Colorado START at over 70K!
Kaelic, I agree that the system is fucked. People like the two you just called hubristic may
someday become victims of the system, and their tune will change.
Caul: Pullup on THIS!!
:D
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:13:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have no idea how many pull ups I can do. I won't find out soon.
What the fuck is creatine?
Caul -- Good show in your reviews on this post. Did you exfoliate today or something?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:12:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
that last sentence was a question to you, kaelic...OR SHOULD I CALL YOU GAYLICK!? LOL!!11EVENTY1
where the fuck is Loren1 anyway?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:11:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i can do 20-25 pull ups close grip. about 10-12 wide.
on creatine those numbers almost doubled but the water retention made my belly flabby and my face swollen http://www.ubersite.com/m/86624
i wonder if there is creatine that has close to zero water retention (i'm very sensible to that). one that actually works that is.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:05:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 16:39:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have never gotten behind the wheel drunk.
Two reasons:
A) I don't drink. Ever.
-------
Wha?
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:02:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
He said he could do 50 or something and I called him on it, then I noticed he had a super bad receding hairline and ever since then he has -2'd/disagreed with everything I have ever posted. I'm sorry, Indoninja! I'm sure you can do a hundred pull ups and your head of hair is a thick mane of manly waves that make lesser men like myself seethe in jealousy!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 21:00:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know you're always going to be mad at me ever since I doubted the number of pull ups you could do, Indoninja,"""
haha, how many does he do?
and what kind of pullups? close/wide grip? hands faced or against you?
there's a difference.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 20:59:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And my comment on the woman is this: She should be able to get the job at a public school. For one, public school principles don't make a lot of money. It's a sacrifice for someone with a doctorate to make. Secondly, she's been working as a private school principle. No money embezzled there, no youth corrupted by her sinister presence. She should be allowed a job at a public school. It's clear she's a completely different person. Sure, she might not being living in the slums, pan-handling for food money, but she is still being denied her dream. You (and Foolproof) suffer a complete lack of empathy for other human beings because you wrongly think you're better than them. It's hubris of epic proportions.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 20:57:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 20:53:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Just like being a firefighter/EMT,..."""
15th mention on this post alone.
Kaelic...Ubersite's hero.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 20:53:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Your standards are impossibly high. Yeah, people should be held accountable, but there should be a line where you can finally say, "This person is a different person. Let's let them back into society without any restrictions."
I'm not saying let some serial offender who is a career criminal do anything they want, but there are mitigating factors. Age, the type of offense, if anyone was hurt, isolation of the incident. It is arrogant and in my opinion foolish to simply believe these people should always be held in lower regard. Again, I believe this country was built on forgiveness. People are not infalliable. I seriously doubt you would be banished from working in your chosen field if you made a mistake.
Just like being a firefighter/EMT, if someone dies on me it's very unlikely I would lose my job unless it was gross negligence. People make mistakes. EVERYONE makes mistakes. I know you're always going to be mad at me ever since I doubted the number of pull ups you could do, Indoninja, but if you believe that someone who makes a (minor) mistake as a child should be punished for the rest of their lifetime even after penance, then you're what I consider a sorry excuse for a human being.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-10 20:34:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 16:45:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So what's your basis for her not being allowed to teach children, Indoninja? Because of a non-violent offense that happened a couple decades ago? You don't think she might have a good lesson to teach children about the value of NOT stealing, possibly, considering she was pardoned by the governor and has a doctorate?
You're Foolproof jr., buddy. No room for forgiveness of anyone not as flawless (read: hasn't been caught) as you.
--------------------------------------------------
No comment on your story about a one time offender having a PhD being unable to get a job being BS? I can't say I am suprised.
We were talking about the system, and your example of a person who made one non-violent offense not being able to get her dream job after staying clean for ten years and getting a PhD. This wasn't true. You can't honestly believe that there is a big difference between a public and private school principal. In this case I think it pretty clearly demonstrates that people DO get a second chance (although I do agree it isn't always easy or the case).
If you want to talk about my personal opinions, then no she shouldn't be able to get a teachers liscence (at least for children, teaching ESL, or adults would be fine by me). I think we should hold teachers to a higher standard (and they should be paid more). It has nothing to do with forgiveness or someone being flawless. It has to do with trust and someone who breaks this trust with society shouldn't be allowed around the most vulnerable sections of our society. If you think that is unfair you seriously need to grow the fuck up. You say you are a firefighter if you lost your job because of negligence do you think you should be given another shot in a few years? Do you think it should stay on your record and perhaps prevent you from rising to a certain level? Or do you think firefighters should be able to work with their head up their asses and have mistakes forgiven after a few weeks? I am a test engineer in aviation and I know if I make a mistake, not even breaking a law, or hurting someone but if I do the wrong thing it could ruin my career, but I am supposed to feel bad for some cunt who deliberately used her power to steal from the public because she can't get a job as a public school principal?
Submitted by hot_pocket (user info) at 2007-04-10 19:13:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
back and forth and back and forth
this shit is stale
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-04-10 19:04:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:50:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Uh, dude. I'm a Firefighter/EMT and I'm almost done with college. I'm not "debating" attending. Almost done. You are hostile as fuck about this for some reason I can't quite understand. OK, brother, your drug conviction didn't cost you anything! You win! But if you just can't figure out why the other jobs never called back, it's because they went with someone without a criminal record. Have a nice day, Adam.
==============
The whole point was that you were talking out of your ass about something you knew minimally about. I had personal experience in the matter, and you try and tell me I'm wrong?
Lastly, I've never had a problem finding a job. Every time I went looking it came down to deciding between offers.
Why?
Because if you have skills, people will hire you regardless of your past. FACT
These are the points I've been trying to express, but you keep missing them.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 19:01:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
my favorite felon: http://youtube.com/watch?v=VxqkZPxwdC8
lol
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 19:01:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Still life, that is exactly my point. We can butt personalities all day, but that's what it comes down to is it cripples your ability to live life to it's fullest.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:58:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
making over 50k is easier than a job at wendy's actually.
i haven't work more than 3 hours a week in 3 years.
it's too bad i can't install games on my work pc :-(
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:58:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Still life,
You can join the military. You just have limited job options. You won't be in Military Intelligence or Military Police or JAG, but you can pretty much do anything else you want to.
Like Engineers. For a bunch of guys that play with explosives all day, they sure do like to get high.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:56:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm sure you'll eventually manage to bang a chick if you keep repeating that you're a firefighter.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:56:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I hate the e-mail since I was 14 you dog raping canadian! arrgghh duiehsdmkwenjrkle
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:56:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There's another name for somebody that runs into a burning building.
Flaming retard.
Submitted by Still-Life (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:55:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-04-10 15:58:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 15:48:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Again, Indo, there's a huge difference between a job at Wendy's and a job making $50,000 a year. Even with an education, a criminal record bars employment just based on stigma alone. Like I said before, it's the digital scarlet letter. Offer up some proof rather than a few google searches.
--------------
There are plenty of people out there who have jobs making under 50k who don't break the law.
Most people who have been convicted of a felony never had what it takes to pull down 50k.
Most of those links were for state jobs, which probably have good healthcare and guaranteed minimum yearly raises, jobs people can live off of.
There are plenty of programs out there for ex-cons.
---------------
There are plenty of Average Joes who don't make too much of a buck, but I know more non-felons that make over 50k than felons who make over 50k. Hell, I don't know a SINGLE one who does, and that says alot because I've associated with quite a few in my time.
Despite what you say, its extremely hard to come back from a felony. Employers discriminate against it, Lenders discriminate against it, home owners, apartment managers, etc, all discriminate. Its hard enough to get a job with a felony, not to mention a house or a loan for a car or home.
From the felons I know, and I know a good few, it takes YEARS of your life away that you have to spend rebuilding and working it back together. Hell, even guys who didn't have to spend any time in prison (under a year in jail) still had one hell of a time building it up.
Its like having bad credit, except you can't go bankrupt and start over. Its stuck with you for LIFE. You can't join the military, you can't own a firearm, you can't vote. You're constantly monitored. Every time you're pulled over and the officer runs your plates, it pops up that you have a felony.
Oh yes, and what does it take to get a felony? In Washington, for instance, you can simply do $300 in damage to another person's property. So if you broke out your evil cheating bitch/bastard ex's tail lights, you could be one too! Domestic Violence charge? Doesn't even require physical assault anymore and BAM, your shit could be ruined for life. Little timmy buys an ounce of skunk from someone and gets pulled over on the drive home? Felony! Possession of controlled substance, ie scripted drugs that aren't yours, LSD, Ecstacy, etc, is an automatic felony regardless of the amount. Fucking playing Poker over the internet for real money is a felony offense in Washington state.
I think the noose is getting tighter and the govt is overstepping their bounds, firstly. The bigger problem; however, is that too many people discriminate because of it. Its too openly available. Do you really think its fair for someone to struggle 10 or 20 years because of a (possibly) small mistake they made when they were young?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:53:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
kaelic still trying to tell us he's a firefighter...a hero...a scarlet ranger.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:50:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Uh, dude. I'm a Firefighter/EMT and I'm almost done with college. I'm not "debating" attending. Almost done. You are hostile as fuck about this for some reason I can't quite understand. OK, brother, your drug conviction didn't cost you anything! You win! But if you just can't figure out why the other jobs never called back, it's because they went with someone without a criminal record. Have a nice day, Adam.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:44:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:35:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
if someone gets caught for drug possession, he's stop stupid he deserves punishment.
i don't know how it works in the US, but even if i try to get caught, chances are that the police won't even bat and get back to whine about their collective convention.
===========
Caul,
It really depends where you live. The police in downtown Baltimore will hardly bat an eye at you if you're smoking a blunt on your front porch, the have more important things to do like stop murders. However, if you go to a suburban community like where I grew up the cops are so bored that they actually get off on that shit. They'll pursue you like you raped their 4 year old daughter if they know you've got even a few grams of weed on you because they really have nothing better to do.
Besides most possesion charges result in a fine (up to 1000 in MD) which is just stuffing state coffers
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:38:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:11:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sorry to break this to you, Adam, but you're wrong. You might be in for a very hard suprise out in the real world.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/grant/dfb.html
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/html/dfbgl.pdf
That is exactly the point I am trying to express. Drug users are punished very harshly. Tell me when you get that six figure job.
================
Did you read it?
"Federal benefit means (1) the issuance of any grant, contract, loan, professional license, or commercial license provided by an agency of the United States or by appropriated funds of the United States, and (2) does not include any retirement, welfare, Social Security, health, disability, veterans benefit, public housing, or other similar benefit, or any other benefit for which payments or services are required for eligibility. Appendix 1 contains a listing of the types of Federal benefits that may be denied" p.2
And if your convicted they can only impose the denial for a Maximum of 1 year, up to 5 if a subsequent offense.
See? Drug users are not punished that harshly.
I'm not in for any surprise in "the real world" as you put it. I've been working my way through college since I was 18. I've held three professional (read: professionally accreddited and licensed) jobs in three different states (FL,MD, & MA).
I live in the real world.
If I remember correctly you're working as an EMT while you debate attending college, whining about how you don't have the money to go. Which is bullshit. If you're willing to work hard, student loans can pay tuition while your job pays the rent, then in a few years you'll have something really worth something.
So let me know when you're ready to join the REAL world, instead of being afraid of it
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:36:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
wtf...stop should be so
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:35:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
if someone gets caught for drug possession, he's stop stupid he deserves punishment.
i don't know how it works in the US, but even if i try to get caught, chances are that the police won't even bat and get back to whine about their collective convention.
Submitted by i_can_get_you_a_toe (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:12:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 internet fight.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 18:11:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sorry to break this to you, Adam, but you're wrong. You might be in for a very hard suprise out in the real world.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/grant/dfb.html
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/html/dfbgl.pdf
That is exactly the point I am trying to express. Drug users are punished very harshly. Tell me when you get that six figure job.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:47:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 16:51:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's NCIC, Adam. And maybe my reading comprehension and your reading comprehension differ, maybe you live in a state that is more lenient, or maybe they just didn't check. Hey, tell you what. Go tell your school's financial aid advisor you have drug charges, and see what happens to that financial aid.
=========
No, my reading comprehension and yours don't "differ". I am correct and you are incorrect.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE
Consider how many millions of people are brought up on drug charges every year, most of them petty possesion charges for Marijuana (like myself). Do you think that the government is all the sudden going just deny all these people a chance at higher education? A higher educated general public is GOOD for the country and the economy. Our universities are one of the biggets assests this country has, and denying the next brilliant thinker an education because he likes to do bong hits would be pretty damaging to the country. Hence the clause only if you're IN school, cause the government doesn't want to buy you dime bags.
And I asked the financial aid office before I went to UMD College Park in 99' because I was worried for the exact reason you posit. She explained it all to me. Ever since I've been getting money from uncle sam to sharpen my wits and win teh intarweb arguments.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:38:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What's so funny about it is, going back, I believe this guy probably agrees with what I am saying and is just arguing for argument's sake. Whatever.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:31:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't you have some defenseless prisoner to go beat up to prove you're tough and strong or something, Lyddie?
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:28:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay, Nancy.
Fucking coward.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:27:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You are a pussy. You have tiny nuts. Dude, you're not threatening my manhood at all while you sit furiously typing about what an awesome, righteous dude you are and then berating me for not e-mailing your boss (supposedly) and explaining your insane views to him. What the fuck do I care? I've gotten a huge kick knowing your blood pressure is through the roof right now. The only place you can express yourself is on the internet you impotent little fuck.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:22:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You can call me a pussy all you want, but I don't see you sending an email.
Anybody else here have the grapes to do it for Jessica herE?
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:22:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I will, but I have no way to prove I did.
You have documentation. You can even post the email from your sent folder.
But you won't. Casue you know that nobody will care.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:21:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Then why won't you do it yourself, pussy? Because you know there would be some retribution? Shut the fuck up. Tell other people your own views and accept the consequences, or stop ranting like some twitchy little shit on the internet.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:21:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Whatever. Threaten me with telling my supervisors and then backing down?
Figures.
Just email it, y'know, if you aren't busy pleasing your man friend tonight.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:19:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i think foolproof is pissed off.
i have a meeting with my accountant. i love accountants.
see ya!
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:19:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am laughing. There is something seriously wrong with you. You look like a spazzing goober.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:17:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You won't do it, you fucking worthless coward.
Way to stand behind your threats and convictions.
Look me up when your balls drop, Susan.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:17:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
How do -I- know that you didn't use some other soldier's name? How could I verify any of it? Just e-mail it to him yourself if you're such a bad-ass non-conformist He-man of a soldier.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:17:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:15:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Send him the link.
Link it to foolproof!
You have written documentation.
I used my rank and name!
What more do you need, you gaping vagina?!?
EMAIL IT!
===
relax man...jeez
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:16:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I said I was at Fort Meade! There is only one of me here!
Do it, cunt! Do it!
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:16:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's because the dude is obviously suffering from some sort of low testosterone or something that's making him wig out on his holy crusade of righteousness against all evil do'ers, regardless of whether they're evil or not.
Somewhere along the line he took what I said about a second chance and twisted it to mean, "Hey all your serial killers, line up over here to get your record wiped clean!"
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:15:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Send him the link.
Link it to foolproof!
You have written documentation.
I used my rank and name!
What more do you need, you gaping vagina?!?
EMAIL IT!
Submitted by Dance.With.The.Devil. (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:15:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
why don't the two of you get a room at the Ritz Carlton and settle any differences.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:15:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh my fuckign god. Just email it you fucking pussy. If I'm going to get in trouble for it, he'll make me show him everything.
YOu coward. Send it. My CO will see it if it matters. But my CO also knows my views.
Not every Soldier is a mindless drone, fucktard.
EMAIL IT!
EMAIL IT!
EMAIL IT!
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:13:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No, you're the coward if you don't do it. Why would he believe me? If you stand by your views, e-mail your CO and express all your crazy opinions right to him. Give it to him in writing. Then I won't think that you're such a tiny sacked, low testosterone pussy that I believe you to be now.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:11:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Not everybody is a criminal. I know this.
But those that are deserved to be punished. Not sent to time out and given a lollipop.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:10:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:09:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have no idea what this is about, but I think there should be different levels for this whole sex offender thing. I never thought about it until I heard that you can get on the sex offender list for hiring a prostitute. Skanky yes but sex offender? That seems a bit harsh.
-----------
If you are even ACCUSED of sexual harassment (not convicted or formally charged, mind you), you can make it onto the Sex Offender Registry.
That registry is completely, 100% illegal. But nobody cares.
Submitted by MidnightToSix (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:10:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I just love the LEO view of the world. I am a holy paladin, and every citizen is a criminal waiting to be caught. And punished. Let me do the punishing, please. They deserve it. I want to make them bleed.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:09:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Do it, you fucking coward. You don't think I will. After all, I just haven't been caught.
Email it.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:09:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have no idea what this is about, but I think there should be different levels for this whole sex offender thing. I never thought about it until I heard that you can get on the sex offender list for hiring a prostitute. Skanky yes but sex offender? That seems a bit harsh.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:07:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Dude, can you save me the trouble and just do it yourself? E-mail it to all your superiors and make sure you emphasize what a bunch of pussies everyone in the U.S. is and how you wish it could be more like Iran where they just chop peoples hands off for stealing. Tell me how it goes.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:06:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:03:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
defenseless animal to be killing or something?"""
haha, you little urban pussy. still harping on this "DON'T HURT THE ANIMALS :~("
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:05:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Now, what do you expect him to do?
Bust me in rank? Scorn me? Give me a good talking to?
He's heard this all before, son. Many times.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:04:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't forget, I'm SSG Miller. Make sure he knows who you are writing about.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-04-10 17:03:37 EDT (