Attn: the rest of the world (1859 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 0.36 on 126 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Alasdair (View user info) at 2007-04-24 15:32:28 EDT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4709258.stm
Like it or not, smoking will be banned in all public indoor spaces in the UK by summer 2007.
*********************
I personally think this is a huge stride and other countries should follow suit. I don't know of any other country that bans smoking outright in ALL indoor public locations.
I'm sure one of you savants will provide an example but the point I'm trying to make is that this is a good thing. Even for you smokers out there, this is a good thing. While you as a smoker may not see a problem with slowly killing yourself, I'm sure you realize the concern those near you have when they are forced to inhale your backwashed tobacco smoke.
Even if you disagree with the findings that suggest second hand smoke actually is lethal, you must appreciate how detestable even the smell of cigarette smoke is for those who do not smoke. I've yet to meet someone who doesn't smoke yet likes the smell of a burning cigarette. To me it's simply nauseating.
So what? What about you? Do you think people should be free to smoke their cigarettes wherever and around whomever they should please?
If smoking is relegated to outside locations only, then how long will it be before a new law is passed making it illegal to smoke within a 10 foot radius of a non-smoker?
How would you KNOW that person was a non-smoker?
...what about clove cigarettes?
We all know that many perfumes have toxic ingredients. Are we to assume that while in the UK, one may not spray perfume on themselves while indoors at a public location? It would make sense, considering this new ban.
point/counterpoint.
Discuss.
User Reviews
Submitted by Kale (user info) at 2007-04-29 00:44:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
I don't smoke. I don't find the smell of smoke detestable.
Submitted by Davros (user info) at 2007-04-28 10:44:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I am a smoker and I am ambivalent about the forthcoming ban.
I will never smoke around people who find it offensive, yet I don't like being told that I am not allowed to do it in a certain place.
I think that the ban is too much. I would be more than happy to frequent bars/pubs/etc that allow smoking and avoid the ones that don't.
I fear for some of the establishments in my home area, in particularly the working mens clubs (something you might struggle with if you are not northern), where at least 90% of the patrons smoke.
The restaraunt thing is fine with me. Smoking while I am eating doesn't worry me, but as Drogo said, I don't do it around others who are eating.
Strangely I have been to both Scotland and New York, where smoking is already banned and found it to be no problem.
I guess the main issue with me is that doctors in the UK can refuse to treat you if you are a smoker, yet the UK taxes from smokers contributes a great deal to our NHS. I am contributing far more to the Health Service through the taxes on my smokes, than a non-smoker ever will, yet they can get treatment that is refused to me. Of course I realise that as a smoker I am more susceptible to some illnesses, but the refusal is not restricted to those conditions.
This has been long enough so I am out.
-Dave
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2007-04-28 09:21:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i just don't see what's wrong with smoking+non-smoking sections.
Submitted by d_a_m (user info) at 2007-04-27 22:02:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't mind being around cig smoke sometimes, but I really do fucking despise spending an entire night out breathing smoke, smelling smoke and having all over my clothes. It's disgusting, so I'm all for smoke-free bars...
...but why should there be a blanket Goverment ban on it? The Goverment has no right to tell me I can't smoke in my own privately-owned home, so why can it tell me that a bussiness I own privately is any different?
So why not have smoking bars and non smoking bars? Then people like me can go out and not have to whinge like pussies about second hand smoke and smelly clothes, whereas smokers don't have to freeze, get rained on or abandon their drinks to feed their habit?
Surely people can make their bars non-smoking zones already? Surely that's within their rights? No-one does, though. I don't know, law is one of the subjects I know very little about, just like every other subject.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2007-04-27 16:08:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
smoking is smelly and dirty.
i fucking hate the smell of my clothes after being in busy pubs.
good news.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-27 16:08:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Flying_buttmonkey (user info) at 2007-04-27 07:43:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snag, you are a bit of a tosspot really aren't you.
*************
Yes.
Submitted by Flying_buttmonkey (user info) at 2007-04-27 07:43:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snag, you are a bit of a tosspot really aren't you.
Kaos might have gone a bit over the top but I agree with his sentiment. I smoke five a day, I do not smoke in my own home, I do not smoke in the homes of other people whether they do or not. I smoke outside, come rain or shine, because it's fucking polite. I don't even stand under the bus shelter when it's pissing it down with rain if I'm smoking, because it's fucking polite.
Telling me, however, that I cannot go out with my friends for a pint in a public house and have a sneaky chuff with my ale is wrong. It just is. I accept not smoking in restaurants, it doesn't even register any more. If non smokers are that upset about the smell of smoke in BARS, where you drink booze and fall over and puke (but god forbid have a cigarette) Then. Don't. Go. You're adult enough to make your own decisions.
I don't like not being able to smoke when I'm drinking a pint in my local? Unlike the whiney bitches who have brought us to this point, I simply won't go. It's my choice, one of the few I still have not had taken away from me.
Submitted by ripple (user info) at 2007-04-26 17:09:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
smokers know that theyre killing themselves. having specific resaurants, bars, etc. designated for smokers isnt killing anyone else.
on that note, tis time for a square.
carry on.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-04-26 15:05:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-26 08:21:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-04-26 03:54:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:43:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Your little rant here is not only childish and unfounded but it's borderline psychotic
________________________
BORDERLINE!?!?!? Hey man, c'mon...
I'm full blown. **weeps**
Submitted by Coleslaw_Murphy (user info) at 2007-04-26 11:51:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:39:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i predict that americans will turn this simple issue into a bill of right debate and make comparisons with gun control and terri schiavo and abortion until this post blows out of proportion into a typical american circus.
IT'S JUST A SMOKERS BAN! RELAX!
___________________
Caul, you should think about writing a book on American sociology.
Your perspective in matters such as these always intrigue me.
I'm not kidding. You quite possibly could be the next Alexis de Tocqueville.
Submitted by Coleslaw_Murphy (user info) at 2007-04-26 11:35:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Re: Snag
I happen to think that kaos-king's rant comes from a good place. It's not immature to be PISSED when your liberties get taken from you.
I can understand a smoking ban, in PUBLIC places. The whole "good of the public health" argument is convincing in those cases. But at a bar, a PRIVATELY owned business, the owner of that bar should determine whether to allow smoking or not.
I can't stand the people that "don't like their clothes smelling like smoke". FUCK THAT. Use a dryer sheet, on air dry, for 10 minutes. Problem solved.
(And I only smoke about a pack per month.)
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-26 08:21:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-04-26 03:54:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:43:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No one has the 'right to smoke' around me, in the same room. Fuck that.
________________________________________
No, fuck you, you self-righteous cunt.
I have the god damn right to do to my body whatever the fuck I feel like. You don't like it? Walk the fuck away. Boo-Hoo, you don't like the smell; well guess what, douchebag? I have to smell your punk ass slathered in cheap cologne like some STD-ridden frat boy who wants to cover up his stink. "Oh, but TeH Cancerz!!1!!" Fuck you. I'll live my life happy, puffing away a pack a day and I'll blow it in your faggot face. It doesn't matter - you're already breathing in pollution and eating enough toxins. Do you really think a bit of second hand smoke at the bar is gonna kill you? Be a fucking man.
Personally, I have absolutely no problem with a smoking ban in a place that is primarily an eatery. If you can't go without a cigarette for a freakin' hour, you have a problem. Their are children, elderly and other people in returants who do not necessarily need to be subjected to my smoke. But a bar... a fucking bar??? FUCK YOU! It's perfectly fine for us to blow our money there to indulge in alcoholism, to drink a substance that causes semi-immediate physical and mental imperments, but not smoke a cigarette? Fuck you and your ban, you better be ready to call a bouncer to drag my ass out.
And YES, I have been known on multiple occasions at festivals and concerts to hang around those fucking Truth.com stands with a lit ciggy hanging from my mouth, heckling those zealots. I especially enjoy flicking my still burning butts at their blonde hippy dreadlocks. It's all a bullshit campaign backed by insurance companies who don't want to pay for ANYTHING to ANYONE anymore. It's the same with seat belt laws, just another way for them to try and fuck you.
I'm a hardcore pack and 1/2 a day smoker and I have absolutely no desire to quit. I LIKE to smoke, I ENJOY smoking. Hell, I'm smoking right now. And I would happily blow all my second hand in your face, just to see that smug superiority that you've gathered up come out in a nice big cough...
***********************
you know, Kaos, it's such a shame for you to be so great a writer with so much talent while still being so incalculably immature.
Your little rant here is not only childish and unfounded but it's borderline psychotic. Standing next to someone with the sole intent of blowing that filthy, cancerous smog in their face?
Find a new hobby you reclusive fat ass. There's nothing worse than a dirty, fat man with a disgusting habit that he PRIDES himself in perpetuating.
If you would apply half the intelligence you exude in your writings, to actually bettering yourself, you'd quit that revolting habit and become a halfway respectable human being for the first time in your life.
Snag, out.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-04-26 03:54:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:43:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No one has the 'right to smoke' around me, in the same room. Fuck that.
________________________________________
No, fuck you, you self-righteous cunt.
I have the god damn right to do to my body whatever the fuck I feel like. You don't like it? Walk the fuck away. Boo-Hoo, you don't like the smell; well guess what, douchebag? I have to smell your punk ass slathered in cheap cologne like some STD-ridden frat boy who wants to cover up his stink. "Oh, but TeH Cancerz!!1!!" Fuck you. I'll live my life happy, puffing away a pack a day and I'll blow it in your faggot face. It doesn't matter - you're already breathing in pollution and eating enough toxins. Do you really think a bit of second hand smoke at the bar is gonna kill you? Be a fucking man.
Personally, I have absolutely no problem with a smoking ban in a place that is primarily an eatery. If you can't go without a cigarette for a freakin' hour, you have a problem. Their are children, elderly and other people in returants who do not necessarily need to be subjected to my smoke. But a bar... a fucking bar??? FUCK YOU! It's perfectly fine for us to blow our money there to indulge in alcoholism, to drink a substance that causes semi-immediate physical and mental imperments, but not smoke a cigarette? Fuck you and your ban, you better be ready to call a bouncer to drag my ass out.
And YES, I have been known on multiple occasions at festivals and concerts to hang around those fucking Truth.com stands with a lit ciggy hanging from my mouth, heckling those zealots. I especially enjoy flicking my still burning butts at their blonde hippy dreadlocks. It's all a bullshit campaign backed by insurance companies who don't want to pay for ANYTHING to ANYONE anymore. It's the same with seat belt laws, just another way for them to try and fuck you.
I'm a hardcore pack and 1/2 a day smoker and I have absolutely no desire to quit. I LIKE to smoke, I ENJOY smoking. Hell, I'm smoking right now. And I would happily blow all my second hand in your face, just to see that smug superiority that you've gathered up come out in a nice big cough...
Submitted by Abbey (user info) at 2007-04-26 02:49:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
PS I can't beleive Vegas banned smoking.... only place I've ever been where I saw ashtrays in the elevators.
...................
Yes, it's supposedly banned, but from what I understand it's just fluff. The bartenders/owners claim that they cannot arrest you, only cite you...IF you give them your name, and you don't legally have to do that.
I always ask the bartender now before lighting up if there are any smoking-sensitive people in the bar. (They make themselves quite obvious.) If so...I'll go outside. If not, then they give you a make-shift ashtray (they cannot have smoking related items in the establishment. The most common one I see is Altoid cans. :)
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-04-25 15:25:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
time for you to mentally toughen up, this should help some more.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-04-25 15:25:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
time for you to mentally toughen up, this should help.
Submitted by TuTs (user info) at 2007-04-25 09:23:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
they should ban farting in public. that is worse for me then some second hand cigarette smoke.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-25 08:42:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Unrelated and slightly disturbing dialogue below.
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-25 07:15:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JoeyG (user info) at 2007-04-25 06:53:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-25 10:44:48 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-25 03:21:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ubmitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:54:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
---
I think she's a hottie - I only words to go on for that assumption, but I'd wager I'm right.
___
Well to the Hunch back of Notredame....i'm fucking stunning.
--
You rang Hottie?
___
ahahahhahahahha
Heres someone with a very odd view of himself. He's proved to be a very good looking chap and yet he calls himself the 'ugly bachalor' (sp?)
even so, I'm jealous of your hunch - could I borrow it sometimes? I heard that guys really dig it
----------------
Jap girls, a goat called Frank and now a humpback?
Damn, I can't wait til I come and see you guys.......
Is the rest of Devon into this stuff?
If so, I'm selling up and coming down to stay for good.
_________________
We're the tame ones Joey. The others.........well, lets just say I hope you've had all your relevent injections.
Submitted by JoeyG (user info) at 2007-04-25 06:53:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-25 10:44:48 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-25 03:21:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ubmitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:54:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
---
I think she's a hottie - I only words to go on for that assumption, but I'd wager I'm right.
___
Well to the Hunch back of Notredame....i'm fucking stunning.
--
You rang Hottie?
___
ahahahhahahahha
Heres someone with a very odd view of himself. He's proved to be a very good looking chap and yet he calls himself the 'ugly bachalor' (sp?)
even so, I'm jealous of your hunch - could I borrow it sometimes? I heard that guys really dig it
----------------
Jap girls, a goat called Frank and now a humpback?
Damn, I can't wait til I come and see you guys.......
Is the rest of Devon into this stuff?
If so, I'm selling up and coming down to stay for good.
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2007-04-25 06:29:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Why don't we ban shitty fucking half-assed useless opinions too.
Then I wouldn't have to read this crap.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-04-25 05:54:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Laws like this are put in place to enforce what should be common courtesy. Don't blow smoke on me while I'm eating and I'll sit near the upwind end of the pub so you can enjoy a smoke with your pint. Fair enough. But since there's no such thing as common courtesy anymore and there're more non-smokers than smokers, this is what happens.
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-25 05:44:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-25 03:21:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ubmitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:54:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
---
I think she's a hottie - I only words to go on for that assumption, but I'd wager I'm right.
___
Well to the Hunch back of Notredame....i'm fucking stunning.
--
You rang Hottie?
___
ahahahhahahahha
Heres someone with a very odd view of himself. He's proved to be a very good looking chap and yet he calls himself the 'ugly bachalor' (sp?)
even so, I'm jealous of your hunch - could I borrow it sometimes? I heard that guys really dig it.
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-04-25 05:43:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
************
i was hoping we'd hear from a smoker who supports the ban. Cool.
==============
I couldn't be bothered reading all the comments on this. As a smoker I too fully support the ban. I make a point of not smoking in a restaurant that serves food, as it's fucking repugnant to eat some tasty food only to haveit ruined by someone lighting up.
The ban has worked in Scotland and Ireland. I reckon people in England will probably be pissier about it, but in the long run it can only be a good thing.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-04-25 03:31:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Anyway groovy gang below, im glad smoking will be banned. Cant Wait to be able to go out to a pub without coming home and my clothes stinking of smoke, just that sweet aroma of piss. Cool.
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-25 03:21:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ubmitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:54:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
---
I think she's a hottie - I only words to go on for that assumption, but I'd wager I'm right.
___
Well to the Hunch back of Notredame....i'm fucking stunning.
--
You rang Hottie?
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-25 03:07:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
and may I take the pleasure of giving this the 100th review...
Snag, you are a cunt and I hope you die.
That is all. Please carry on.
WooHoo!!!
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-25 03:06:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
---
I think she's a hottie - I only words to go on for that assumption, but I'd wager I'm right.
---
she's hot.
Submitted by eric_the_bread (user info) at 2007-04-25 02:37:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
ill blow smoke at whoever the fuck i feel like. i probably wont do so if your polite and dont make a big fuss, but if youre acting like a dickass, i will take it upon myself to personally give you cancer.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-04-25 00:48:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My wife doesn't smoke and she likes the smell of cigarette smoke. There's one.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2007-04-24 22:52:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This seems like such a one-sided issue to me.
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2007-04-24 22:22:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'll smoke outside. I don't mind. I'll even walk fifty feet away from a public entrance. It's all good. Maybe second-hand smoke IS harmful (although it can't be more harmful than, say, driving a two ton vehicle at 60 mph on a daily basis) and I should keep my nast nasty cancer fumes away from people's lungs. Where I draw the line is when the jagoff serving me my double Maker's on ice says "Hey, asshole, there's no smoking in this bar."
That's where my temper gets riled.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/60197 Linkwhore
Submitted by Falafel (user info) at 2007-04-24 21:53:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
In Canada, we do it by province.. Nova Scotia has banned smoking in all indoor public places and is looking to expand that to all outdoor public places too. That would include in your car. Discuss.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-04-24 19:29:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I support banning it in public places. I don't bitch at other people about their habits and I never complain in public, but here I'll go ahead and say that it would be a relief not to have to be around that shit everytime I go out to eat or drink. I used to smoke, and I had a really hard time quitting, so it's not like I don't get it. But like Sac said, it either irritates me or tempts me, and I don't consider either of those to be good. Being a former smoker I think my body is more tolerant than those who have never smoked, so I imagine it makes them even more uncomfortable.
Smoking is disgusting. It makes your clothes stink, your breath stink, your hair stink, your hands stink, your teeth yellow, your lungs black and your eyes red (if you're in a room full of smokers). It is unpleasant to breathe and unpleasant to have in your eyes. Smokers have a tendency to throw their goddamn butts anywhere on the ground too. Everytime I throw a party I have to go behind and clean up fucking butts out of my yard. I'm thinking of banning them from my house, too.
Submitted by richardcranium (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:59:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
One more for good measure. You are a suck.
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:57:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
DOES IT EVER
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:55:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Personally, I think smoking around people who don't smoke is a form of casual assault.
You know the kind that gets your arm punched twice for flinching. Sure its foul and offensive - but you have to be there in order to get punched (read: inhale).
I'm glad they are taking measures to make it more difficult for people to smoke. I have many friends who smoke (entirely too much) and I love them dearly, but that doesn't change the fact it's a filthy, disgusting, damaging habit that gives me a fucking headache.
...oh and it smells.
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:54:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
---
I think she's a hottie - I only words to go on for that assumption, but I'd wager I'm right.
___
Well to the Hunch back of Notredame....i'm fucking stunning.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*only HAVE words...
(heh. how delightfully ironic.)
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
---
I think she's a hottie - I only words to go on for that assumption, but I'd wager I'm right.
Submitted by Amontillado (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:44:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think cigarette smoke generally cheapens the atmosphere of any place you go.
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:42:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nooooooooooo.
I'm half woman and half troll.
Still woman, but mainly beast.
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:41:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:41:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i could really go for a beer and a smoke right now
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:37:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:35:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:27:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
fag love below.
______
I'm female! Well............ish.
*************
ah.
So queeno here goes after the transvestites, does he?
Makes sense.
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:35:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:27:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
fag love below.
______
I'm female! Well............ish.
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:34:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ah, I was right about Calabasas and I discovered the answer to my car question.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/national/19smoke.html?ex=1300424400&en=f0adab741b1144f7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
"The smoking ordinance, which was unanimously passed by the five-member Calabasas City Council last month, prohibits smoking in all public places, indoor or outdoor, where anyone might be exposed to secondhand smoke. The ban includes outdoor cafes, bus stops, soccer fields, condominium pool decks, parks and sidewalks. Smoking in one's car is allowed, unless the windows are open and someone nearby might be affected."
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:32:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
fag argument above, if you get my drift
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:27:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
fag love below.
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:27:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:26:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:20:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:10:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 12:00:47 PDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 13:26:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I heard this a while back and laughed my bollocks off.
******************
not as hard as I laughed after hearing how big of a loser you are.
-----
you two fags need to get a hotel room and raunch each other up the fudge tunnel.
--------------
what can I say, the fag follows me about commenting on my comments. His choice I suppose.
In other news, I go to Spain in a few weeks to purchase £2400 quids worth of cigs, which I will sell on to a very dubious character i know for over £20 a carton (200 Cigs per carton)landing me £5000. I'll have smoked my share by July 1st.
****************
i swear to god beano you have the intelligence level of a braindead gnat. Go brag about your cigarette laundering somewhere else.
---------------
I thought this was the 'tired, old, been done before, shall we, shan't we ban smoking thread'...?
My mistake.
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:26:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:22:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I love you bean
------------
I <3 you too Monster.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:26:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:20:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:10:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 12:00:47 PDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 13:26:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I heard this a while back and laughed my bollocks off.
******************
not as hard as I laughed after hearing how big of a loser you are.
-----
you two fags need to get a hotel room and raunch each other up the fudge tunnel.
--------------
what can I say, the fag follows me about commenting on my comments. His choice I suppose.
In other news, I go to Spain in a few weeks to purchase £2400 quids worth of cigs, which I will sell on to a very dubious character i know for over £20 a carton (200 Cigs per carton)landing me £5000. I'll have smoked my share by July 1st.
****************
i swear to god beano you have the intelligence level of a braindead gnat. Go brag about your cigarette laundering somewhere else.
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:25:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Abbey (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:14:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:25:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
while I agree smoking is bad mmmkay
if I own a 'pub' or 'bar' I think it should be my call as to whether we smoke there or not.
their not banning alcohol and I'd be interested in seeing how many people die in alcohol related deaths each year in comparison to smoking related deaths.
...............................
VERY good point.
-----------
The U FUCKING S OF A is prolly killing as many people per day as alcohol and tobacco, but who cares because they are all from the middle east.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:24:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by whiskey_jack (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:58:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Doesn't bother me as according to my parents I spend most of my time with my head up by ass. Can I smoke there?
++++
This post gets a +2 for causing that review.
I do not agree with a ban on smoking in public places. When I lived in FL, where they passed the ban something like 5 years ago, it was merely a slight inconvenience, but now I live in New York and being forced to go outside to smoke, even when I'm at the bar, fucking sucks when outside is registering temps of -20. Besides my personal discomfort, many of the owners of small businesses here said that the ban was detrimental to their profit margin; some even went bankrupt due to former regulars choosing instead to pick up a 12 pack and stay at home, where smoking or not was their decision. I think a much better alternative would be to give business owners the right to decide to make their establishments non-smoking only, possibly even offering some kind of incentive to do so, while maintaining their right to allow smoking if they wish (after all, isn't half the point of owning a business the ability to run it how YOU want to?); the supporters of the ban surely would keep the rule and the non smokers would be more than welcome to go to those places and avoid offense of their delicate nasal passages. Or a requirement that places that wanted to offer both "clean air" AND smoking sections could do so provided that they were seperate rooms with seperate ventilation systems... There's so many ways to make you non-smoking health nuts happy while avoiding causing hardworking people to lose their business and of course my personal discomfort. (That last part was a joke, so whoever was going to harp on it and write some long diatribe about what a selfish bitch I am, please feel free to blow me.)
PS I can't beleive Vegas banned smoking.... only place I've ever been where I saw ashtrays in the elevators.
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:22:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I love you bean
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:20:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:10:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 12:00:47 PDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 13:26:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I heard this a while back and laughed my bollocks off.
******************
not as hard as I laughed after hearing how big of a loser you are.
-----
you two fags need to get a hotel room and raunch each other up the fudge tunnel.
--------------
what can I say, the fag follows me about commenting on my comments. His choice I suppose.
In other news, I go to Spain in a few weeks to purchase £2400 quids worth of cigs, which I will sell on to a very dubious character i know for over £20 a carton (200 Cigs per carton)landing me £5000. I'll have smoked my share by July 1st.
Submitted by Abbey (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:14:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:25:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
while I agree smoking is bad mmmkay
if I own a 'pub' or 'bar' I think it should be my call as to whether we smoke there or not.
their not banning alcohol and I'd be interested in seeing how many people die in alcohol related deaths each year in comparison to smoking related deaths.
...............................
VERY good point.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:13:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:07:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Basically the way I see it is as follows: Kick the smokers out. If you want to smoke, go outside. Then, bring in a bunch of hookahs. Lots and lots of hookahs. No one can have a bad time with one of those around, and they're certainly more fun than some jagoff with a lit cigarette. THEN, we all wear loincloths and recline with these hookahs. THEN we all get little creature companions like Solacious Crumb, to snicker and cough at our jokes and the helpless fucks we send to the Rancor. THEN we get a big jar of pickled frogs to share, gain a ton of weight and enjoy the occasional ride on sweet ass levitating sail barges.
****************
gold.
Submitted by richardcranium (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:13:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Not to mention you individually are a penile inhaler.
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:12:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Salacious. Whatever. Like I know what the fuck I'm talking about.
Submitted by LittleMonster (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:11:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm not going to read the reviews. I listen to bullshit like this all day and to be honest. You can just fuck off.
Submitted by drgoatcabin (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:10:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Louisiana (all of the US?)just passed a "Clean Air Act" in January. All indoor smoking is banned, unless you are a bar. And to be considered a bar, the "bar", itself, must bring in over half the profit of the business.
I smoke, I think it's a great idea to ban it indoors. I don't believe those who don't smoke should be subjected to my second hand smoke while they try to eat their steak. I have heard of some businesses in New Orleans that won't let you smoke outside, in front of their establishment (Because New Orleans is so very clean in the first place...).
And for all the smokers out there, chewing tabacco and dip is a nastier alternative. It gets you your nicotine fix and you can do it pretty much anywhere.
Yeh, I from the country.
Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:09:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
6th installment below
Submitted by richardcranium (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:09:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Go mount your couch. No one gives a flying piss about your worthless country. That is all that is needed to say about that.
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:07:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Basically the way I see it is as follows: Kick the smokers out. If you want to smoke, go outside. Then, bring in a bunch of hookahs. Lots and lots of hookahs. No one can have a bad time with one of those around, and they're certainly more fun than some jagoff with a lit cigarette. THEN, we all wear loincloths and recline with these hookahs. THEN we all get little creature companions like Solacious Crumb, to snicker and cough at our jokes and the helpless fucks we send to the Rancor. THEN we get a big jar of pickled frogs to share, gain a ton of weight and enjoy the occasional ride on sweet ass levitating sail barges.
This is how the world will prosper. So says the Orgasmatron.
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:05:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know smoking is banned in all public indoor places in California unless it's like a hookah bar or smoke shop or something. You also can't smoke outdoors within like 20 feet of any government owned building. They were considering banning it in all public areas including outdoors.
I'm pretty sure Calabasas actually did pass that law last year so you can only smoke outdoors in designated smoking areas or on private residential property which means no smoking as you walk down the street or anything like that. That makes me wonder if you're allowed to smoke in your own car with your window down as you drive on a public street.
Submitted by NoMeD (user info) at 2007-04-24 17:00:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
ATTENTION:
University knowledge is now available to the public for free!!!
MIT is posting ALL its course notes at http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Global/all-courses.htm ,
Which is fucking groundbreaking if you think about it in a historical sense.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:59:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:49:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so snag you're point is its a matter of squatters rights then, if you are in the room first then you decide the smoking preference and vice versa?
******************
not necessarily. I wouldn't walk into a room with a cloud of toxic smoke lingering there, anyway, and as a patron of any business I wouldn't have the authority to 'make the rules'.
I need to add to the argument that businesses do as a matter of course, have certain 'rights'. What they can sell, how they can sell it, for how MUCH they can sell it, to whom they can sell it, etc.
Example: any bar in the US has a right to refuse to serve alcohol to anyone who is already drunk. There's no discrimination case here.
Further, if you conduct a transaction with a business in the United States, that business has a right to use your contact information to reach you about anything (sales promotions, surveys, etc.) unless instructed not to.
So far in the UK these businesses in question have had the 'right' to allow smoking in their establishments or to NOT allow smoking in their establishments.
The debate might better to be had - is this ban infringing on business rights?
Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:53:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I would agree with a ban if smoking didn't make you look so fucking cool.
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:49:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Today, I read that old ladies in Vicksburg, some-state-I-forget, are being forced to move from their apartments after being tenants for over 20 years, unless they quit smoking.
I was a smoker until recently. When I go out, I either feel suffocated or tempted in smoky places. But whether smoking should be allowed should be up to the owner of the establishment.
One of my favorite bar/restaurants here went smoke-free recently, and I can barely get a table. Business sure hasn't suffered. And people will naturally gravitate toward their place of preference, and smoking bans are not the answer.
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:49:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so snag you're point is its a matter of squatters rights then, if you are in the room first then you decide the smoking preference and vice versa?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:46:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:43:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:39:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
IT'S JUST A SMOKERS BAN! RELAX!
************
caulaincourt, if so many smokers didn't have a sense of entitlement it wouldn't be a problem. It's their own self-proclaimed 'right to smoke' that's to blame.
No one has the 'right to smoke' around me, in the same room. Fuck that.
===
i'm a smoker and i don't know many other fellow smokers who think like that. most just comply with the law and stfu accordingly.
you're takling about a few neanderthals that don't matter in the equation because it gives you a reason to have an argument and an american conniption over a trivial issue.
give it rest.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:43:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:39:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
IT'S JUST A SMOKERS BAN! RELAX!
************
caulaincourt, if so many smokers didn't have a sense of entitlement it wouldn't be a problem. It's their own self-proclaimed 'right to smoke' that's to blame.
No one has the 'right to smoke' around me, in the same room. Fuck that.
Submitted by orph (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:43:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think this idea is poof. Guinness and smoking go hand in hand.
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:41:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i could really go for a beer and a smoke right now
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:39:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i predict that americans will turn this simple issue into a bill of right debate and make comparisons with gun control and terri schiavo and abortion until this post blows out of proportion into a typical american circus.
IT'S JUST A SMOKERS BAN! RELAX!
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:37:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Im tucking into an entire gateux, safe in the knowledge that its not my fault Im a greedy pie, its all thanks to my crappy genetics.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:36:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:33:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hotel rooms can be seen as both PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SIMULTANEOUSLY. this can be successfully argued in a court of law, and has been.
****************
i would like to see a footnote here. Case?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:36:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
scourge is arguing exceptions that will be adressed by lawmakers in the UK (it was here) in order to sound intelligent and reasonable.
HEY SCOURGE! WE SAW YOU! IT'S OK NOW!
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:35:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:27:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:23:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
TIME TO TAX THE FATTIES!
****************
see now THIS is a reasonable proposition.
Why not tax anyone with a body fat percentage over 20% or so?
It could be a 'disregard for personal health' tax and we could use the revenue to fund programs to whip the fat kids into shape.
Oh, to dream...
-
Haven't you been keeping up? It aint the Fatties fault anymore. It's a GENE.
*Stuffs more chocolate in gob*
I can't help it I tells ya!!!
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:33:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:13:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
k, scourge.
First of all, what you consider a dually defined public AND private location isn't so, in my opinion. Extended stay hotels and inns are indeed public places, but the services they offer are private. That said, while it may not be legal to smoke in the PUBLIC lobby of the hotel, it might be quite legal to smoke in the PRIVATE quarters of the rooms there.
Secondly, in response to this:
"legislating in absolutes is a horrible idea."
...what you're essentially saying here is:
"Lets absolutely refuse to consider any absolute legislation."
Do you see the problem I see with the above sentence?
====
yes, the problem is that you are trying to, in essence, define something using its own name in the definition. that is both a fallacious way to attempt to prove a point and is beside the point. lets get to the meat of the matter...
the problem is that your personal opinion of what constitutes a public space is of absolutely no consequence when it comes to the letter of the law.
if the UK follows suit with legislation used in other locations... which is pretty standard practice as the worlds democracies tend to do a lot of language sharing when drafting legislation...then a hotels interior would be considered *in total* to be 'public space'. at least it is the way i helped to change the drafted language in Illinois, and we used language from many different states and a fair number of other countries in drafting ours.
so, now that your personal opinions are moot (i mean, they have been from the beginning anyway), the problem of not allowing for exceptional circumstances still remains.
nursing home rooms can be classified as both PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SIMULTANEOUSLY. this can be successfully argued in a court of law, and has been.
hotel rooms can be seen as both PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SIMULTANEOUSLY. this can be successfully argued in a court of law, and has been.
i have no idea if the UK's language addresses this or not, and to be quite honest I'm not going to research it to see if it does. the point still remains. if you do not address exceptions, you are advocating for flawed public policy. public policy rife with error and open to failure and litigation.
stating absolutes tends to be an idiots game. idiots and politics shouldn't mix. (sadly they do so far too often.)
and with that, i bid you a fond adieu, sweet, simple minded snag.
Submitted by MidnightToSix (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:33:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ah scourge:
your insight into people living in non-traditional homes (hotels, hostels, nursing homes, etc.) is a very good point. I think, however, that they are not infringed upon unduly because of the stipulation that the smoking is banned in public *indoor* spaces. These residents can still 'step outside' to fix their habit. Also, seeing as they are not owners of the establishment in which they reside, they could be viewed as temporary residents. Seeing that smoke damages the property, at the least requiring extensive cleaning and maintenance to remove its effects, really the residents should not have the right to smoke indoors. If they owned the residence the matter of damaging their own property is of their own concern.
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:27:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
In Canada, several provinces have banned smoking in any public place, including bars. Is it a good thing? Yes. And I am a smoker. It's good for several reasons, all health related. First off is the whole second hand smoke issue. Not even an argument there, smokers smoking outside has a clear health benefit to all non-smokers. Secondly, like most people, I picked up the habit in bars, and the habit got entrenched when I worked in them. Will the ban affect the numbr of people smoking? Early to tell, but all indicators currently point ot yes, less young people will pick up the habit. Third, I noticed the amount I smoke has actually gone down since the ban. When you have to leave the bar/rstaurant to light up you find yourself smoking less (when you are sitting around drinking in the bar you have a tendency to smoke far more). The lack of second hand smoke actually has a health benefit even for smokers. Before, I used to wake up after a night working hacking and coughing and my lngs pretty much felt like an ashtray, regardless of how much I smoked. It was also nice to not have your clothes reeking of stale cigarette smoke after a night in the bar, or at a resaurant, or simply being at work (although most workplaces outside the hospitality industy already had designated smoking areas, or outright bans, in place). This is to long already, so enough for now.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:27:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:23:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
TIME TO TAX THE FATTIES!
****************
see now THIS is a reasonable proposition.
Why not tax anyone with a body fat percentage over 20% or so?
It could be a 'disregard for personal health' tax and we could use the revenue to fund programs to whip the fat kids into shape.
Oh, to dream...
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:27:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:19:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snag, the minute they make selling and smoking cigarettes illegal I'll follow your idea. The fact that they won't because the government makes crazy amount of money on the taxations of tobacco means that it'll be quite a while though. Frankly I think this is just their way of wanting to make sure that people don't smoke recreationally and concentrate on smoking, thus leading to an overall increase in sales or cigarettes.
===
did you see what happened when they banned alchool?
banning cigarettes will never work.
when they tripled the cost of the pack when i was kid, smugglers were fucking everywhere. they had to slash the price.
only education and prevention will stop people from smoking and statiscally and from what i see, all those campaigns seem to work.
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:25:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
while I agree smoking is bad mmmkay
if I own a 'pub' or 'bar' I think it should be my call as to whether we smoke there or not.
their not banning alcohol and I'd be interested in seeing how many people die in alcohol related deaths each year in comparison to smoking related deaths.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:23:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In related news - why didn't I think of this:
http://www.precuttennisballs.com
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:23:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FATMANTPK (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:18:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:48:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If they want to ban smoking, ban the sale of cigarettes.
-----------
I agree with that. Here in Colorado, 2 or 3 years ago, they passed a $.75 per pack tax on cigarettes. That sounds to me not so much like an attempt to disuade smoking as it is an attempt to create revenue.
===
disuading smokers doesn't work. they tried that here and contraband just becomes much bigger. so the government uses it for revenue but any smoker is more likely to cost more to a free healthcare system than he will ever pay.
TIME TO TAX THE FATTIES!
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:22:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fatman, between the state tax on cigarettes, the national tax on cigarettes, and the sales tax, more money is spent on the taxation of a pack of cigarettes here in Michigan than actually is going to the tobacco companies for each pack. It's fucking bullshit.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:19:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snag, the minute they make selling and smoking cigarettes illegal I'll follow your idea. The fact that they won't because the government makes crazy amount of money on the taxations of tobacco means that it'll be quite a while though. Frankly I think this is just their way of wanting to make sure that people don't smoke recreationally and concentrate on smoking, thus leading to an overall increase in sales or cigarettes.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:18:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
smokers ban are in many countries now. there's been a smoke ban in all indoor public spaces in my heavily smoking province last year and people said we were lagging behind the rest of the world so the UK is actually rather late on this.
smokers like myself adjust and nobody talks about it for more than 2 days after the law's in effect.
i personally think it sucks but hey, so did it when the seatbelt became mandotory.
many people will complain that the pubs and bars will be deserted because there's so many occasional smokers but that won't be the case. new clients, assholes (:-P) who hate smoke, are more likely to go out and the only places that seem affected are ratty pubs who might lose their old achoolic customers who can't bear walking 10 seconds to go outside. the air is much more pleasant in restaurants and going outside for a smoke in a club gives you nice opportunities for conversations, away from noise.
on the other hand, you can't exactly go to the already crowded coatcheck everytime you go for a smoke so going outside at -30C in a t-shirt fucking suck ass. some clubs provide large cloths at the exit you can put around you but i find that dirty and hobo-ish.
since you don't live in a cold country, smokers won't be complaining too much and everyone is gonna be happy except a few retards who can't be civil when the majority decides something, especially something health-related.
Submitted by FATMANTPK (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:18:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:48:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If they want to ban smoking, ban the sale of cigarettes.
-----------
I agree with that. Here in Colorado, 2 or 3 years ago, they passed a $.75 per pack tax on cigarettes. That sounds to me not so much like an attempt to disuade smoking as it is an attempt to create revenue.
We all have choices to make; if we do not like smoking then we should avoid the places where they allow it. Its no different than trying to ban topless/nude bars. If you like the music and atmosphere at the Jiggly Room but don't want to see boobs, then do not go and find somewhere else to spend your time and money. Your consumer dollars should speak before you ask any politician to speak for you.
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:18:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
*pokes head in*
*looks around*
Um, I think I'll stay out of this debate for my personal health, and SUPA's....
*ducks back out*
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:16:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:10:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snag, do you mean publically funded places or all places that are open to the paying public, aka private businesses?
***********
the latter.
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:15:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ps i'm from boston and we've not been able to smoke indoors (bars, etc) for a few years now. it doesn't bother me any, and personally i don't give a crap what the rest of the world wants to do.
so i guess my point is moot.
SONG OF THE DAY:
Molly Hatchet - Flirtin' with Disaster
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:15:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Aye the Buckies a killer alright
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:14:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.ubersite.com/m/82098
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:13:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:08:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:00:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
scourge, I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.
The debate is, I think, pretty simple:
Should smoking be banned in indoor public places?
I say yes, globally.
===
You didn't follow that?
*shakes head*
Okay, the gist of what I wrote is that some places can be viewed as both public AND private places, as in my two examples. Avoidance of exposure to harmful smoke by the general public is the intent of legislative measures such as this. In my two examples, avoidance is possible, yet the spaces meet the definition of a "public place".
You are infringing on a persons right to choose if you deny them the ability to smoke in a setting that amounts to their home.
Global banning would be infringing on the rights of the individuals who reside in those spaces.
If speaking and thinking in absolutes is a bad idea, legislating in absolutes is a horrible idea.
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k, scourge.
First of all, what you consider a dually defined public AND private location isn't so, in my opinion. Extended stay hotels and inns are indeed public places, but the services they offer are private. That said, while it may not be legal to smoke in the PUBLIC lobby of the hotel, it might be quite legal to smoke in the PRIVATE quarters of the rooms there.
Secondly, in response to this:
"legislating in absolutes is a horrible idea."
...what you're essentially saying here is:
"Lets absolutely refuse to consider any absolute legislation."
Do you see the problem I see with the above sentence?
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:11:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:09:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:07:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Been like that in Scotland for yonks now
************
...and there we have it. Scotland.
Where else is smoking banned across the board in public places?
I'd venture to say that Scots lead healthier lives (even if only slightly) on account of this.
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No No no they havent banned the sale of White lightning or Buckfast Tonic Wine. Oh the evils of the tonic wine I tells ya!
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:11:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So what? What about you? Do you think people should be free to smoke their cigarettes wherever and around whomever they should please?
If smoking is relegated to outside locations only, then how long will it be before a new law is passed making it illegal to smoke within a 10 foot radius of a non-smoker?
How would you KNOW that person was a non-smoker?
==========================
Beginning with premise like this is hardly debate inspiring. This post isn't even out of the gate before it begins to deviate from the course of a sound logical debate.
Smoking is being banned from smoking in public places because it is a known cause of cancer, even more so in those exposed to long term second hand smoke. It should be rightfully banned in public places in leiu of letting businesses install air handling systems capable of exchanging air at rates that can make the exposure risk a non issue.
Consider this, benzene is a know carcinogen to all who are exposed to it. Sure there are those that are paid to work in close proximity with it. They choose to work with it. Unfortunately there are those that live near benzene sources. They don't have a choice in the manner in which they are exposed, and furthermore aren't compensated equally for exposure.
That's why benzene is a very controlled substance, because of the public health risk it has, and the unwillingness (or inability) of the public at large to curb the actions of a select few that affect the public health of the many
Cigarettes are also a concern of public health. Cigarette cause birth defects, cancers, and respitory problems to name a few. The collective cost to society (too lazy to look up numbers) in terms of healthcare costs alone has got to be enormous (~20% of the US is uninsured, a much larger part underinsured).
I got off on a bit of a tangent, but the gist is that if invented today, cigarettes wouldn't stand a chance making it to the market. They'd be banned or controlled based on their negative health effects and addictivness.
The government is doing a great service to the MAJORITY of the population who doesn't smoke. To all the smokers.....
Fuck you, smoke in the freezing cold, the rain and snow, and above all enjoy a refreshing cigarette in the blazing summer heat!
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:10:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 12:00:47 PDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 13:26:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I heard this a while back and laughed my bollocks off.
******************
not as hard as I laughed after hearing how big of a loser you are.
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you two fags need to get a hotel room and raunch each other up the fudge tunnel.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:10:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snag, do you mean publically funded places or all places that are open to the paying public, aka private businesses?
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:09:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:07:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Been like that in Scotland for yonks now
************
...and there we have it. Scotland.
Where else is smoking banned across the board in public places?
I'd venture to say that Scots lead healthier lives (even if only slightly) on account of this.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:08:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:00:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
scourge, I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.
The debate is, I think, pretty simple:
Should smoking be banned in indoor public places?
I say yes, globally.
===
You didn't follow that?
*shakes head*
Okay, the gist of what I wrote is that some places can be viewed as both public AND private places, as in my two examples. Avoidance of exposure to harmful smoke by the general public is the intent of legislative measures such as this. In my two examples, avoidance is possible, yet the spaces meet the definition of a "public place".
You are infringing on a persons right to choose if you deny them the ability to smoke in a setting that amounts to their home.
Global banning would be infringing on the rights of the individuals who reside in those spaces.
If speaking and thinking in absolutes is a bad idea, legislating in absolutes is a horrible idea.
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:07:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Been like that in Scotland for yonks now and I have got to say I am fucking loving not having to febreeze myself when I come home from the pub.
Submitted by Abbey (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:05:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I smoke and do not mind the ban in 'public' places. I lived in CA where it's not even allowed in bars. Not a problem, we just stepped outside. In the city I lived people fought it quite vigorously at first, but seemed to settle in just fine after a few months.
Now I live in Vegas where just recently they banned smoking in establishments that serve food, with the exemption of casinos. So, many bars shut down their food section of the restaurant in order not to lose gamblers who would then just go to the casinos. (Many bars still let people smoke...they just don't care. They even advertise that they allow smoking on their marquees.)
That being said, even in a casino where smoke abounds, I do not light up when there is someone sitting next to me. I find it rude. I'll either wait until they leave, or I'll move myself. I don't mind waiting or moving.
Finally, I find it even more offensive when people, men or women, wear tons of perfume / cologne. It drives me nuts.
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:00:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:59:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
actually i heard they were trying to ban that.
sorry :(
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Submitted by whiskey_jack (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:58:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Doesn't bother me as according to my parents I spend most of my time with my head up by ass. Can I smoke there?
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IF THE GHEYS CAN DO WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR ASSESS THEN I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SMOKE UP MINE!!
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 16:00:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
scourge, I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.
The debate is, I think, pretty simple:
Should smoking be banned in indoor public places?
I say yes, globally.
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:59:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
actually i heard they were trying to ban that.
sorry :(
Submitted by whiskey_jack (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:58:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Doesn't bother me as according to my parents I spend most of my time with my head up by ass. Can I smoke there?
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:56:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:56:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
public indoor places.. fine.
Once they start trying to forbid people to smoke in their houses, cars, private clubs, public outdoor places, etc. is when I will have a problem
________________
Bosh speaks the word of truth.
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:56:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
public indoor places.. fine.
Once they start trying to forbid people to smoke in their houses, cars, private clubs, public outdoor places, etc. is when I will have a problem
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:52:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
all indoor locations would include a person's home. you answered this by inclusion of the word 'public'. a very necessary word in that you would not limit a persons personal freedoms in this instance because they would not have impact on others. i.e., going in you would know this was the home of a smoker and would have the opportunity to avoid exposure. obviously in a public setting that opportunity is unavoidable.
now that's out of the way...
how do you weigh personal freedom against potential harms in similar settings?
example: a person who rents a hotel room is entitled to use that space as their dwelling place, or home, for the duration of the time they have rented it. i am not talking about a one night stay, though the argument would apply in that case as well, i am speaking of those who live in a hotel or hostel setting on a long term basis. some choose to live in this type of setting for months on end. this is their home. an opportunity to avoid exposure is available to the general public who such laws are trying to protect.
what is the determination in that case?
a similar example can be illustrated by someone living in a long term care setting, nursing home, assisted living, what have you...only, their is an additional variable to factor into this equation.
the long term care setting is undoubtedly to be considered the individuals 'home', yet they have no choice, due to medical necessity, about living there. it is also a public indoor setting.
here's the dilemna, you are in essence taking away TWO personal freedoms form the resident in this setting: freedom of movement, or the ability to change setting to allow thenm to smoke, and two, the personal decision to smoke via this inability to relocate.
same conundrum as in example one above.
what is the determination in that case?
anyway, all that just to say that speaking in absolutes is rarely a good idea. the problem you have proposed for discussion is a failure from the start because you weren't specific enoughto satisfy my ever so fickle whims. good job.
ps, smoking is a fucking disgusting habit for weak minded people.
pps, have a +2 since i typed all that out
ppps, i like boobs and beer
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:51:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:47:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hmm. I smoke. Yes the ban will be a good thing;
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i was hoping we'd hear from a smoker who supports the ban. Cool.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:50:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:46:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Fuck you, you peice of shit.
************
sounds like someone needs a cigarette.
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:48:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And do some homework you lazy cunt, smoking in banned in plenty of places.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:48:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If they want to ban smoking, ban the sale of cigarettes.
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:47:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:43:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Pubs aren't public spaces.
***************
pubs are not public?
The word 'pub' comes from 'public house'.
Care to reformat your statement here?
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:47:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hmm. I smoke. Yes the ban will be a good thing; as I started smoking when I went into pubs and I know a lot of people who did the same. So in a way there will be a whole generation of kids who grow up and go into bars and never associate it with smoking. Health wins all round.
Sadly though I believe in choice; something to do with some crappy idea about democracy or something.
I dont like people smoking around me when I eat so am happy that restaurants be smoke free. I also never smoke around other people who are eating. Some politeness thing.
People have a choice whether they either work or go into a bar where people are smoking. There are smoke free bars and pubs already that the truly twatish about it can already go to. So why is it that it is right to suddenly take away my freedom to be able to smoke in a pub full stop? Is it because the smokeless ones are jealous of the best bars being taken up by the evil smoking people?
Who knows and who really cares. The law is comming in and I canny do anything about it.
I will meet all the 'Cool' smokers outside the Redcow at 7pm on the day it comes in.
Anyway much better argument post than normal around here.
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:46:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Fuck you, you peice of shit.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:43:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Pubs aren't public spaces. I hate government taking the decision out of the hands of businesses.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:42:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
looking forward to cleaner air
Submitted by Dexter-Brown (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:41:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The great country of California is years ahead of you limeys.
Submitted by ih8u2man (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:39:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I smoke, that being said here's a list of other things we should screen in public places.
1)Jews
2)People who talk too loud in bars
3)People who have hair that offends others
4)Anyone wearing a crucifix around their necks
5)Kids in any restaurant after 7:00 pm. Fuck off! Go home and play in your goddamn living rooms
6)Hobos
7)Hobos with knifes. (They all have them by the way and are trained to use them by other hobos
8)People who smell bad
9)White people that think they are black
10)Lists of 10 are inflated.
Submitted by congo (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:39:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Oh, here we go....
Submitted by snag (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:38:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:35:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fuck non-smokers. They're gonna die of stress related illnesses anyway. Smokers have no stress after a good smoke.
*********
if you call 'no stress' coughing up a 2-ounce wad of black phlegm then sure, I guess you're right.
Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2007-04-24 15:35:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fuck non-smokers. They're gonna die of stress related illnesses anyway. Smokers have no stress after a good smoke.