Monkeys With Guns (1063 hits)
Category: PoliticsLabels: Article
Rating: 1.33 on 39 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by kaos-king (antius777) (View user info) at 2007-05-04 12:27:04 EDT
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)." - Eddie Izzard
In the last few weeks, mostly since the Virginia Tech shooting, schools in America have gone insane. At my own alma matter, there were death threats called in the day before the High School prom. A neighboring school had a student's locker searched and discovered various weapons inside. At almost every area education system, there has been some form of near incident or unspecified threats made. What to do, what to do?
Here are some wonderful ideas provided from... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6563721.stm with illustration!
Few campuses have elaborate security, but experts suggest the following options could help keep staff and students safe.
1) Wall provides secure perimeter and stops public entering campus
2) Security guards control access, with ID cards used by staff and students. CCTV cameras record movements of people and cars
3) Control room provides airport-style checks and acts as base for 25-30 campus police at typical college. Security systems monitored
4) Key buildings including labs and dorms have own security guard, CCTV and swipe card entry. Forced entry raises alarm
5) Tannoy system/siren conveys key information or raises alarm
6) Texts, automated phone calls and e-mails from control room warn students and staff of emergency and keep them updated
Uhhh...
So what does the NRA have to say about all this? They've been suspiciously quiet recently. Could their masterplan be... a comic book??? http://www.salon.com/news/primary_sources/2007/04/19/nra_comic/index_np.html
And what of their opponents, like those at http://www.bradycampaign.org/ have to say? Oh, of course their almost pissing themselves over how great these little recent displays will help their cause. I believe "U.S. Gun Violence Epidemic is 'our Daily Virginia Tech,' Paul Helmke Tells National Press Club Audience" was the line across one of the pages.
HERE'S THE THING...
People DO kill people, but damn if it's not simpler when you've got a gun.
I think people do have a right to carry a firearm. Of course, I also think most people are dumber than shit. Unfortunately, the folks that hunt deer with AK-47's aren't having accidents more frequently. I think it's one thing to have a revolver of some other small caliber gun in your home, safely locked away, in case of need; it's another thing to have a freakin' arsenal. It's your right, I'll grant you that, but damn... what are you lacking in your underroos to make you need all that?
Yes, there needs to be some measure of gun control. Only a totally ignorant primate would argue otherwise. We can't have any random individual stroll in, drop some cash on a counter and walk out with an assault rifle loaded with armor-piercing bullets. I mean, the primary function of these items is to inflict damage. Nobody has to practice their sniper abilities right that hour, it can wait a little bit.
Guns can make things safer - IF IN THE RIGHT HANDS. I'll take a competent security officer packing some heat at a university. But when some half-dazed instructor is armed with a gatlin gun, we have problems. This... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7297575/ ... is not the solution.
In fact, guns aren't even the issue...
Perception is what this about. Ideas and concepts, the notions that the youth of America have about their lives and others. We don't talk to our kids, we don't communicate with them. We definitely don't try and understand them and we have conveniently forgotten our own adolescence. We treat them either as subhuman beings or shorter adults, and in either case, we usually fail to discipline them in a correct manner. There's a wonderful middle ground between beating the shit out of them and ignoring them with a smile.
And maybe, just maybe, if our kids were a little more sane, a little more well adjusted than us, we wouldn't even need to worry about the gun issue one way or another.
Eddie Izzard clip (NSFW) - "Monkey With A Gun"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtX6Tj74oU
User Reviews
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2007-09-07 14:09:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Holy shit. Until just a moment ago, I thought monkeyswithguns was just a nice sounding moniker, something my wife made reference to occasionally.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-05-05 18:02:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+1 I don't completely disagree with your post.
You're right when you suggest that the problems we face are problems of society.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-05-05 18:00:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm a big Eddie Izzard fan, but I don't agree with him on this. I've responded to all this on other posts around the time of the shooting. I am not for abridging the rights of gun owners any further than it already has been.
The campus in question already had a complete gun ban in effect. Think about that. If there's already a gun ban in effect and 33 people die, what good is a gun ban or any of the other measures you're talking about other than to infringe upon the rights of the law abiding to protect themselves against not only crazy gunmen who happen to be other students, but crazy people who might be security guards, even?
The government is NOT going to protect you. Sooner you all learn that, the better. Case in point, Katrina. Case in point, Virginia Tech.
One last morsel for thought...the Appalachian School of Law Shootings...when a fellow student opened fire on people, a couple gun owners ran to their cars, got their guns, and stopped the man before he could kill anyone else.
When a human has to take the life of another human, it's a painful thing all around, but there is a reason the citizens of this country were given the right to keep and bear up arms. One look at history should teach you that taking that right away the people would be a horrible and disastrous idea that would pave the way for more civil rights abuses and/or totalitarianism.
Ask yourself this, what would it take? We've already got Patriot Acts and Military Commissions Act, and Model States Emergency Health Powers Acts... then you've got all those presidential directives that would allow the military and FEMA to completely take over the government even at a local level during an undefined "emergency". You've got presidential directives that will scare the SHIT out of you... How about the one that allows the people to be, get this...rounded up and organized into "work brigades"! Or how about the one that states that the president can declare martial law at any moment he chooses, and congress cannot dispute the declaration for 6 months.
What would it take to set some of this into motion, or better yet, what wouldn't it take?
I'm not being paranoid here, I'm give you the facts. If you think you want fewer people to die, the last thing you want is for the law abiding and good people of this country not to be armed.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-05 10:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-05-05 02:26:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:30:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:21:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"I think people do have a right to carry a firearm. Of course, I also think most people are dumber than shit."
*********
And Uberites are dumber than most...
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I know you're not serious, Bubba, but I'm drunk so I'm going to reply to this anyway. Or maybe you are serious. I don't know. Fuck...I'm bored with my reply before I started. No.
*************
Just stirring the pot...
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-05-05 07:33:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i lied
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-05-05 07:33:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I refuse to rate anything anymore by the way.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-05-05 07:33:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
well thought out opinions there, and I respect them.
Im not even getting involved in what is probably stupidity below.
Submitted by messmind (user info) at 2007-05-05 07:20:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
So many points to start, that i don't even dare.
Submitted by Barnymeinhoff (user info) at 2007-05-05 05:52:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
That nra comic was fucking awsome....the animal rights protester had a tattoo and hairy legs............weeps
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-05-05 02:26:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:30:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:21:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"I think people do have a right to carry a firearm. Of course, I also think most people are dumber than shit."
*********
And Uberites are dumber than most...
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I know you're not serious, Bubba, but I'm drunk so I'm going to reply to this anyway. Or maybe you are serious. I don't know. Fuck...I'm bored with my reply before I started. No.
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-04 23:11:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Eddie Izzard for life.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-04 22:26:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:55:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Jack you are so fucking dumb it hurts.
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Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-01-29 21:34:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I didn't even go to college. I have a high school dilpoma, and that's it.
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it's not his fault. :-\
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-04 22:23:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:55:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
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Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-04 18:35:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-05-04 15:46:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Technically the homeless population has more to do with Regan making cuts in mental health spending than with liberal pussies choosing to let them stand around on the streets carrying on conversations with their imaginary friends.
--
So that means that a great many of the people on the streets of San Francisco right now were what, under 10 years of age when they were put out on the street? Jesus.
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Jack you are so fucking dumb it hurts.
I didn't expect to ever side with Loki over anything but I'll obviously have to explain this to you; Regan slashed govt. mental health spending, and as in the usa it's a lot easier politically to lower govt expenditure than to raise it, the govt still does not provide adequate mental health funding......hence crazy people are left to roam the streets.
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Bullshit. They are left to roam Ubersite, and are named after a combination of the Nation's Capitol mixed with a euphimism for an erection. Agreeing with Loki is a vote for run-on sentences crossed with stream-of-brainlessness...
:/
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:55:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
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Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-04 18:35:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-05-04 15:46:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Technically the homeless population has more to do with Regan making cuts in mental health spending than with liberal pussies choosing to let them stand around on the streets carrying on conversations with their imaginary friends.
--
So that means that a great many of the people on the streets of San Francisco right now were what, under 10 years of age when they were put out on the street? Jesus.
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Jack you are so fucking dumb it hurts.
I didn't expect to ever side with Loki over anything but I'll obviously have to explain this to you; Regan slashed govt. mental health spending, and as in the usa it's a lot easier politically to lower govt expenditure than to raise it, the govt still does not provide adequate mental health funding......hence crazy people are left to roam the streets.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:30:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:21:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"I think people do have a right to carry a firearm. Of course, I also think most people are dumber than shit."
*********
And Uberites are dumber than most...
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-05-04 21:21:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"I think people do have a right to carry a firearm. Of course, I also think most people are dumber than shit."
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-04 18:35:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-05-04 15:46:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Technically the homeless population has more to do with Regan making cuts in mental health spending than with liberal pussies choosing to let them stand around on the streets carrying on conversations with their imaginary friends.
--
So that means that a great many of the people on the streets of San Francisco right now were what, under 10 years of age when they were put out on the street? Jesus.
Submitted by Fey (user info) at 2007-05-04 18:31:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm afraid I don't have the energy for reading it, you get a +2 for Eddie Izzard. I love him, I'm planning on marrying him when I grow up. Don't tell him, don't wanna spook him.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-04 18:15:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-04 15:27:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
4. Parents should automatically be charged as accessories when a child LIVING UNDER THEIR ROOF commits a crime. I'm sick and tired of this "I had no idea" bullshit you hear from parents. When I was in high school there were stretches of weeks at a time where my dad and I only saw each other for a few seconds each morning and evening, because he was working two jobs. Even with that, he could pass me in the hall and casually ask, "You all right?" and just by my tone (even if i said just 'Yep') he knew if I was OK or if he needed to take a moment to see what was bugging me. It was fucking uncanny (and at that age incredibly fucking annoying), and I think EVERY parent should be that attentive of their kids, even if they have to WORK at it.
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you always talk about your dad, but never your mom.
you obviously have mum issues, Jack.
that would explain A LOT!
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-05-04 18:11:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by St_Jimmy (user info) at 2007-05-04 14:40:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:05:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
5. What is the best thing about your life right now?
- - - My book comes out in 4 to 6 weeks
______________
Book huh? Title and seller please.
_______________
Heh, I'll provide you all the answers if you e-mail me at antius777.at.yahoo.com
I'm not quite ready to talk about it on here yet...
Submitted by Psychodyne (user info) at 2007-05-04 17:06:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Didn't Reagan stop being president 18 years ago? That's a long time to be still blaming him for stuff. I'd think others after him would have just as much to answer for, if what you say is true. But he has passed, so I suppose blaming him for a small portion of a post is just as easy.
I tend to agree with Jack. People seem to be unable, unwilling, or afraid to discipline their children properly. Kids do NOT have the same rights as adults, yet are treated as though they do. This was a good read. I'd say more, but Kaos-King and Jack have already said many things my thoughts mirror and I'd simply be repeating.
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-05-04 16:51:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-05-04 15:46:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Technically the homeless population has more to do with Regan making cuts in mental health spending than with liberal pussies choosing to let them stand around on the streets carrying on conversations with their imaginary friends.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-04 15:27:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
1. We are a nation of liberal pussies. We can no longer discipline our kids without the law stepping in. The nanny-state mentality is fucking us good.
2. Kids know this and many of them push the limits with their teachers. Do YOU want to work in an inner-city school these days?
3. We hand out medication like it is fucking Pez. Enough, already. Let's pass a new law. If a doctor medicates a kid, that doctor must monitor that kid. If that kid harms himself or others, the doctor can be help liable, can be held as an accessory.
3(a) At the same time, if it established that a kid should try meds and refuses them, we should FORCE the meds on them, at least for a trial period. Yes, I said FORCE. Fuck this bullshit. Look at our city streets, filled with bums, and you know that a percentage of them could be helped if we FORCED them to take meds, but no, liberal pussies think it is more humane to let them wander the streets fucked up on drugs or freezing their asses off while enjoying their liberty.
4. Parents should automatically be charged as accessories when a child LIVING UNDER THEIR ROOF commits a crime. I'm sick and tired of this "I had no idea" bullshit you hear from parents. When I was in high school there were stretches of weeks at a time where my dad and I only saw each other for a few seconds each morning and evening, because he was working two jobs. Even with that, he could pass me in the hall and casually ask, "You all right?" and just by my tone (even if i said just 'Yep') he knew if I was OK or if he needed to take a moment to see what was bugging me. It was fucking uncanny (and at that age incredibly fucking annoying), and I think EVERY parent should be that attentive of their kids, even if they have to WORK at it.
Add those up and you get kids who grow up without serious discipline, no true sense of the consequences of seriously fucking with others, and the freedom to fall headlong into a destructive spiral.
The Pussification of America has consequences.
Submitted by St_Jimmy (user info) at 2007-05-04 14:40:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:05:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
5. What is the best thing about your life right now?
- - - My book comes out in 4 to 6 weeks
______________
Book huh? Title and seller please.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-05-04 14:40:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think that the correct answer is a lot of knee jerk response and Monday morning quarterbacking. Where would we be as a people if we started calming and discussing these issues rationally.
I personally do not care for guns. I have lived with them mostly because my old roommate was a cop. He even tried to teach me how to shoot. It turns out that screaming at the same time you pull the trigger throws off your aim. Who knew.
The point is I don't even care if other people have guns. The idea of every paranoid nut job in the country walking around with a concealed handgun permit is disturbing. There has been a lot of chatter in the editorial section of the paper here about how none of this would have happened if all those kids at VA Tech were armed. Dear god you have got to be shitting me.
Submitted by ampersand (user info) at 2007-05-04 14:35:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yeah but we live in a nation of what? 300 million? I dont keep track anymore but its a lot. So how do you plan to 'figure out' the one thing thats wrong with 100 million kids? what makes you even suppose that there is one thing (or two or three) that causes every incident? even if you somehow find a way to improve the mental health of every single american kid (you wont) there will still be those few fuck ups that...well, fuck every thing up.
all that said, I'm pro gun ownership but I feel that our gun laws are not being enforced well enough and, in some ways they arent good enough. there needs to be much stricter laws for, not who can buy guns, but who can sell them.
Submitted by St_Jimmy (user info) at 2007-05-04 14:23:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I will always +2 an Eddie Izzard reference. Have you seen his show on FX? It's pretty good. I think Eddie Izzard is great, however, he does a pretty crap American accent. Don't see why they couldn't have made his character British.
What is wrong with children today? There's the million dollar question. Have to agree that gun laws won't make much of difference if the root cause isn't discovered.
If I had to guess, I'd put my money on overpopulation. Overpopulation is a nasty thing. The Great American Birth Rite by Woolfolk details that study where they let rats reproduce as much as they want in a fixed volume with fixed food/water. When the rat population exceeded the threshold that the enviroment could support, all sorts of "interesting" behaviors started to emerge. Needless to say, things didn't work out so well for the rats in the end.
I wrote about reasons not to reproduce, including overpopulation, in a earlier post.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/92308
It went over REAL well. Admittedly, it not my best work, but I don't think it's THAT bad, I think it was just "pick on the noob".
Submitted by creep_firebombing (user info) at 2007-05-04 14:05:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Creep - - What I was trying to say here was that it's MORE than just a simple gun issue. If this kid was determined to commit acts of violence, he would have found a way to aquire firearms or maybe just made explosives. I was trying to say we need to look at the bigger picture, we need to look at WHY our kids are acting out like this; how are we failing them? Ultimately, every person is in charge of their own fate, but perhaps this could have been avoided WAY before guns even became a matter of choice.
And personally, I dig the html functions. Almost every other forum-based site has them.
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I agree that something must be done to figure out why kids are acting like this. Frankly, I believe quite a bit of the most recent attacks/attempted attacks are a result of prior school shootings. You'll always have a percentage of the population that is mentally unbalanced, but now it's almost like the psychos have perverse heroes to emmulate.
"I'm all fucked up. Wah wah wah. School is so hard. Getting a real job is teh scary. People pick on me. I'm socially awkward and depend on the validation of those that I feel are superior to me. Boo fucking hoo. Thank God this isn't the 80's. Back then everyone like me had to attempt suicide in some wrist-slitting or pill-popping panty-waist fashion that wouldn't really cause death unless the person was stranded on a desert island with medical attention no less than 10 hours away, but would still garner loads of attention. Nowadays, all we have to do is steal the key to Daddy's gun cabinet or pay an extra hundred bucks down at Crazy Bill's Discount Gun Emporium. Load up and go on a shooting spree! If I die, it'll be quick and painless and I may not even have to pull the trigger myself if the cops show up! And if I don't die I can just blame it all on Columbine and VT and Grand Theft Auto! They'll just put me in a mental hospital and I'll get to be a lazy ass attention whore drain on society 4-EVA!"
Or some shit like that.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:45:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks for reading, Caul...
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Creep - - What I was trying to say here was that it's MORE than just a simple gun issue. If this kid was determined to commit acts of violence, he would have found a way to aquire firearms or maybe just made explosives. I was trying to say we need to look at the bigger picture, we need to look at WHY our kids are acting out like this; how are we failing them? Ultimately, every person is in charge of their own fate, but perhaps this could have been avoided WAY before guns even became a matter of choice.
And personally, I dig the html functions. Almost every other forum-based site has them.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:43:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by creep_firebombing (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:37:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Setting up containment and secure entry control points is the heart of any proper security operation. You're not telling us anything we don't already know. The problem is that there aren't many colleges that want to put forth the expense, both financially and in quality of living, necessary to this kind of solution. And why would you? Who the fuck wants to attend an institution of higher learning that looks like a fucking prison camp? The real issue with VT, the issue that you've completely neglected here, is not gun control legislation. The real issue here is enforcement of gun control laws already in effect, or more appropriately, the lack of enforcement currently performed in some areas. The VT shooter was a Korean exchange student with a document history of mental health issues in this country on a student visa. Even a perfunctory background check (which is federally mandated for all firearm purchases, by the way) would have shown that this kid was unfit on many levels to purchase/own/carry a firearm of any kind. Here's a few questions you should be asking instead. Who sold him this gun? Why is the gun dealer that sold this gun to him still licensed? Why is the gun dealer that sold him this gun not in jail himself? Is he/she not also responsible, even indirectly, for the death of 22 innocent children?
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Also, Bart really needs to get rid of the bold and italic features. That shit gets really annoying when it's scattered all over a post like this for emphasis. And the giant chunks of white space were annoying enough when they started popping up for pictures, but now that it happens for really long hyperlinks it's just fucking ridiculous. This place is going to shit again.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:33:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Man, Sean Connery isn't aging well at all.
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:25:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The NRA comic is hilarious.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2007-05-04 13:25:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
When the end of the world comes everyone will need a few guns just to get out of the city.
Fuck looting, head to the hills first, then organize armed patrols to go back and raid supplies from rival factions. Try to limit civilian casualities, but at the end of the day, if they're in your way in the first place they're probably enemy, so gut the motherfucks, leave the bodies for the birds and get back to home base with those rations.
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-05-04 12:46:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Underpants can make things safer - IF IN THE RIGHT HANDS.
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-05-04 12:45:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Every time I saw the word "gun" or "guns" I replaced it with "underpants."
It made for a very silly time.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2007-05-04 12:31:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
*mumbles something about cold dead hands*