Har Har Socialized Medicine! (3179 hits)
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Submitted by Jack McCallum (View user info) at 2007-05-08 14:34:24 EDT
For all of you who shit on the American healthcare system and say socialized medicine is the way to go, here is one more signpost along to road to the ultimate failure of socialized medicine.
The British Medical Association has announced that increasing demand is making it impossible for the National Health Service to provide for all patients, and the NHS will soon have to offer only a core of services, rationing or eliminating treatments for non-life threatening conditions.
From an American perspective, it isn't news that more and more Canadians would rather pay cash to come down to the USA and get medical care NOW instead of being put on a waiting list in Canada, and I'm always hearing from family up there how more and more services are being cut back.
Now, some will counter that by saying Americans pay way too much for prescription medicines and they can get them cheaper in Canada. That is true, but there are two important things to consider; the first being that we are working on the problem and trying to find ways to allow low-income segments of the population get easier access to the medications they need. The other is the fact that it is for the most part American companies or universities are the ones doing the research and creating new drugs and moving them through the expensive approval process, so they have every right to charge high prices in an attempt to recoup costs before the patent expires and generic copies hit the market. Granted, the process creates a lot of shit medication (Restless Leg Syndrome? Get the fuck out of here!), but usually the system works. I take Allegra twice a day for allergies. It was expensive for a few years, but now I get a three months supply of the same generic medication for twenty bucks.
Socialized medicine is a system created to fail. It regulates profits, and let's be honest, even a doctor with a heart of gold who decided to work for no compensation would still have to pay for medications and tests. Doctors limited by the rules and regulations of socialized medicine are overworked and underpaid. I would rather be treated by a doctor who is well-compensated and happy and relaxed after a few days of golf or driving his big new boat than one who is frustrated and fatigued.
As living conditions improve and populations grow and people live longer, we have more and more people using the system, especially senior citizens. The system starts to collapse, and to prevent that, cutbacks are made.
From http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329811270-102285,00.html
Senior BMA sources say their report recognises the reality that despite record investment in the NHS, 'postcode lotteries' are rife. Primary care trusts, the local NHS organisations that commission and pay for care from hospitals on behalf of patients, are increasingly rejecting requests to pay for procedures or drugs because they are not perceived to be the best use of funds.
Some PCTs have been bitterly criticised for refusing to pay for expensive new cancer drugs; treatment to prevent older people going blind through age-related eye degeneration and operations to help obese patients lose weight through stomach-stapling.
...
James Johnson, the BMA chairman, will warn that patients face a bleak future because they will increasingly be denied treatments. He will urge the NHS to be much more explicit about what it can realistically afford to do and ask political leaders to engage in an open, honest debate about rationing.
Rationing? Lotteries? Insanity.
Thanks, socialism!
User Reviews
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2007-05-15 08:45:34 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-15 05:39:29 EST (#)
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AMERICA LUVS TO LIVE IN THE PASTE
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 20:54:44 EDT (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:40:36 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:37:51 EDT (#)
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a fetus is not a baby, get your shit straight
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I am actually pro-choice.
but the argument comparing the rights of fetuses to the rights of fucking lazy bums is a poor one.
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bums have right.
fetuses don't.
whether you like the comparison or not, IT'S IN THE LAW!
and like Judge Dredd would say...
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 20:53:30 EDT (#)
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Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-14 20:01:22 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:37:51 EDT (#)
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a fetus is not a baby, get your shit straight"
When does it become a baby?
start of contractions? cutting of umbillical cord? first shit?
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ooooooooh, and anti-abortion fella here.
1 out of 4 pregnancy end up in an abortion in north america, i believe.
THAT'S AN AVALANCHE OF FETUS FOR YOU!
i met a fetus who solve math problems once, no shit!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-14 20:37:26 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-14 18:59:48 EDT (#)
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I was making a comment about the comment you made: "no one has a right to healthcare".
I was pointing out that it doesn't make sense to say that and be pro-life.
I was not assuming you are, i was just stating that about people who say that in general.
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It makes all the sense in the world to say people don't have a right to healthcare and that abortion should be illegal.
Not providing free healthcare, food and shelter is a lot less harsh than allowing the parent of an unborn child to kill it. An adult has opportunities to cloth and feed themself, an unborn child doesn't and should be protected under law.
It baffles me that someone could realistically make the argument than adult who squandered their life, and chose not to work should be provided comforts by the state, and that same state should sanction the killing of an unborn child.
For the record I don't agree with abortion, but I think it should be allowed (just not late in the pregnancy).
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-14 20:01:22 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:37:51 EDT (#)
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a fetus is not a baby, get your shit straight"
When does it become a baby?
start of contractions? cutting of umbillical cord? first shit?
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-14 18:59:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:40:36 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:37:51 EDT (#)
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a fetus is not a baby, get your shit straight
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I am actually pro-choice.
but the argument comparing the rights of fetuses to the rights of fucking lazy bums is a poor one.
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I was making a comment about the comment you made: "no one has a right to healthcare".
I was pointing out that it doesn't make sense to say that and be pro-life.
I was not assuming you are, i was just stating that about people who say that in general.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:40:36 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:37:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
a fetus is not a baby, get your shit straight
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I am actually pro-choice.
but the argument comparing the rights of fetuses to the rights of fucking lazy bums is a poor one.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:39:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
WOOHOO! I STARTED ANOTHER ABORTION DEBATE!
AMERICA LUVS TO LIVE IN THE PASTE
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:38:39 EDT (#)
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a fetus has no civil rights...a human does...according to your supreme court anyway
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:37:51 EDT (#)
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a fetus is not a baby, get your shit straight
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:32:18 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:15:26 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Kent_Weirdo (user info) at 2007-05-14 09:41:16 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-13 22:21:15 EDT (#)
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"I don't think you have a right to food, shelter, or healthcare"
see, now i don't get how people can say this and and make the exact opposite arguement in favor of pro-life abortion.
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"pro-life abortion"?
err i mean the pro-life side of the abortion debate.
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So killing a baby that has done nothing wrong is ok, but not feeding, clothing and housing an adult who won't contribute to society is bad?
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-14 15:15:26 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Kent_Weirdo (user info) at 2007-05-14 09:41:16 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-13 22:21:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I don't think you have a right to food, shelter, or healthcare"
see, now i don't get how people can say this and and make the exact opposite arguement in favor of pro-life abortion.
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"pro-life abortion"?
err i mean the pro-life side of the abortion debate.
Submitted by Kent_Weirdo (user info) at 2007-05-14 09:41:16 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-13 22:21:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I don't think you have a right to food, shelter, or healthcare"
see, now i don't get how people can say this and and make the exact opposite arguement in favor of pro-life abortion.
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"pro-life abortion"?
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-13 22:21:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I don't think you have a right to food, shelter, or healthcare"
see, now i don't get how people can say this and and make the exact opposite arguement in favor of pro-life abortion.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-13 12:36:33 EDT (#)
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Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-05-12 22:12:18 EDT (#)
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He's correct. People don't have a "right" to these things. A right is something that society is obligated to provide/allow. If one has a "right" to shelter, healthcare, food, etc., that means the rest of society has an obligation to provide them no matter what, even if its against the judgement of those doing so. And these things require time and action to be created. So the right to these things is a right to the time and effort of others against their will, i.e. the right to enslave.
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food and healthcare come under the umbrella right of the 'right to life'(shelter is debatable).....which is certainly the most basic right of all......I don't see how anyone but a nutter can disagree with the right to life
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-05-13 11:45:57 EDT (#)
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Bohme, I already have. I also happen to be an Objectivist. *gets out his bullet proof vest*
Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2007-05-13 04:43:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wow, i agreed with bart here.
The federal government is inept.
Other than that, +2 for a convincing and well written argument.
Submitted by Bohme (user info) at 2007-05-12 23:31:35 EDT (#)
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See: negative rights vs. positive rights for that one.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-05-12 22:12:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
He's correct. People don't have a "right" to these things. A right is something that society is obligated to provide/allow. If one has a "right" to shelter, healthcare, food, etc., that means the rest of society has an obligation to provide them no matter what, even if its against the judgement of those doing so. And these things require time and action to be created. So the right to these things is a right to the time and effort of others against their will, i.e. the right to enslave.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-12 15:16:05 EDT (#)
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"I don't think you have a right to food, shelter, or healthcare"
I think that's the basic sticking point here.....most people do think people have a right to those things....
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-12 10:30:35 EDT (#)
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indo,
i get your point, what i want to know is for the 2 out 330000 unemployed who want to work but are unable to find a job, if they get sick, according to your system they are unemployed and will get no health care, and will probably die, are you gonna let that happen?
(basically, would you rather 1000 guilty men go free, or 1 innocent man get punished?)
and btw government assistence = social medicine ,
which will bring all the red tape you say private medicine will get rid of...
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-12 09:52:49 EDT (#)
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Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-11 23:25:52 EDT (#)
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well, let's assume most unemployed are lazy, but the numbers are huge, and by the laws of probability, lets say 1 or 2 out of all those are willing to work but can't find a job, then by taking away free health care, you are basically giving them the death sentence, that's why you cannot make sweeping statements like 'if they are not working, they are lazy, fuck them'
nobody has yet gave logic to how a 40 year old is gonna get a new job?is there enough odd jobs to go around? what if he has a family? say he starts over pumping gas for minimum wage, his wages are still less then his expenditure, he is runnning debts every month, the he gets sick, you want to put people in a situation where they have to choose between seeing a doctor and feeding his family?
there are lots of benifits you can take away to encourage people to work, but health care shouldn't be one of them.
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I agree that a 40 yr old who may be paying for college, house, cars etc may not find a new job to cover everything right away, but he is still better off taking a job that doesn't pay enough than doing nothinging.
I am for making healthcare affordable and cheap so anyone working can get it. If he can't afford to feed his family with a bad job, then he certainly can't afford to feed them with no job.
Here is the thing, I am not against govt assistance, but not for people who won't work. I don't think you have a right to food, shelter, or healthcare, but if you are willing to wirk the govt should help you.
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2007-05-12 00:52:46 EDT (#)
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charminglybeef (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:43:16 EDT (#)
And it could happen to you.
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Well, just about anyone who would make a statement like that probably already knows that it CAN'T happen to them. So they don't give a shit.
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2007-05-12 00:51:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh yeah, and NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY hires 50 year old guys for anything. Let's say you worked in a factory as a foreman for 17 years, then lost your job for some reason.
You CANT go back to school and take engineering or pharmaceutical, because NO ONE WILL HIRE YOU. No 'career' based jobs will accept people who are 40 or 50 years old. Sure you can go to school and get the degree, but unless you know someone then your going to get passed over for the 22 year old who is going to stay with the company for more than 15 years before they take a retirement package.
On top of losing income that was supporting your family you're supposed to continue raising a family and instead of earning more money for them you have to PAY OUT money to go to school. You can't do both at the same time.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-11 23:25:52 EDT (#)
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Submitted by charminglybeef (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:43:16 EDT (#)
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Undoubtedly people are unemployed because they are lazy. And I don't question the idea that many nipples gather many mouths, but the root of unemployment in North America seems to have more to do with labour mobility than anything else.
Lotsa jobs. But if you lose one it takes time to find another. And it may be in a different city. And you may not want to move or you may not be able to.
You might not have the money to.
And so you need some help, brutha.
And it could happen to you.
And that of course, is when you get really fucking sick.
And I don't know how I feel about that. Because on the one hand, fuck 'em, but on the other, what if 'em is you?
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well, let's assume most unemployed are lazy, but the numbers are huge, and by the laws of probability, lets say 1 or 2 out of all those are willing to work but can't find a job, then by taking away free health care, you are basically giving them the death sentence, that's why you cannot make sweeping statements like 'if they are not working, they are lazy, fuck them'
nobody has yet gave logic to how a 40 year old is gonna get a new job?is there enough odd jobs to go around? what if he has a family? say he starts over pumping gas for minimum wage, his wages are still less then his expenditure, he is runnning debts every month, the he gets sick, you want to put people in a situation where they have to choose between seeing a doctor and feeding his family?
there are lots of benifits you can take away to encourage people to work, but health care shouldn't be one of them.
Submitted by charminglybeef (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:43:16 EDT (#)
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Undoubtedly people are unemployed because they are lazy. And I don't question the idea that many nipples gather many mouths, but the root of unemployment in North America seems to have more to do with labour mobility than anything else.
Lotsa jobs. But if you lose one it takes time to find another. And it may be in a different city. And you may not want to move or you may not be able to.
You might not have the money to.
And so you need some help, brutha.
And it could happen to you.
And that of course, is when you get really fucking sick.
And I don't know how I feel about that. Because on the one hand, fuck 'em, but on the other, what if 'em is you?
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:40:19 EDT (#)
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Indoninja:
You may not find a great job, or even a good job, but there are jobs out there and if people are too proud to take them so they can help support themselves then the govt shouldn't be stepping in to help them.
Most people who are unemployed CHOOSE not to work.
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Well that is true. I found a job when I lost mine in about 2 days. It is pretty easy to get work, small towns of course being the exception, but there is always something and you CAN move...
Unless you have a family, 2 cars, a mortgage, and 2 kids in university and the plant shuts down. Too bad your youngest kid has some disease that makes her ineligible for medical coverage.
There are a million scenarios JUST like this played out every day.
Also, employment has NEVER been shutting down this fast ever. Read "The End of Work" by Jeremy Rifkin. What happens when not everyone need to work to produce all the things we need?
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:35:54 EDT (#)
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Indoninja, What do you do for a job? Please give me some idea. Even an area of work, like engineering, or law enforcement, or military, or what have you.
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:32:46 EDT (#)
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sigh, the first period should be a comma. now i look retarded.
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:32:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The fact of the matter is, the only people who would ever be against socialized Medicare. The ones who think that poor people between jobs and in school have absolutely no excuse for not being able to pay for medical when they can afford things like beer and GASOLINE must have never ever ever ever ever been poor. There is just now damn way.
My parents didn't have much money. I worked for a year in another city to save for school. Long hours, night shifts, grueling work, no respect, the usual. I had no money for gas, or beer. Fuck, there is no way I could afford a car let alone fuel or insurance. If the money isn't there it isn't there. I had to go to the hospital during that time in my life, and if I wasn't Canadian I would have been SO SCREWED.
Everything worked fine though, and within a year or so I'll be done school, and withing two years I will be looking back at these times wondering how anyone could care about 100$.
Sure there are idiots who are poor because they're careless, but those of use who aren't stupid shouldn't get punished because of the lesser breeds of the normals.
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2007-05-11 22:24:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
We've got socialized medicare up here in Canada. It rocks. No one really takes it for granted, and we can't imagine what a nightmare it would be without it.
Too bad you guys can't afford it.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-05-11 21:20:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You have this Canadian's +2.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-11 21:10:18 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 08:43:07 EDT (#)
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i'm all for socialized health care btw...but we should leave some room for the private sector so that people can choose and create competition.
this monopoly over healthcare is idiotic and irresponsible
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Canada is run by commies!!!11!! Call the police.
Wait...
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-11 20:57:06 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-10 16:39:50 EDT (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-10 12:55:55 EDT (#)
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As I said before peole are laid off, in between jobs, etc should have some type of supplemental coverage while they get their life back in order.
but it is next to impossible for me to believe that there are any hard working people out there who can't find a job after a month or two of looking (maybe not a career).
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Agreed. And isn't is funny how students struggling to put themselves through college or the guy on your block who has been 'looking for work' for a year now can't afford monthly payments on a medical plan but they always have plenty of cash for beer and pot and gasoline?
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HEY!!! WE ALL HAVE OUR PRIORITIES!!
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-11 20:36:07 EDT (#)
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so, this discussion has progressed to the point where we each keep repeating our own points eh?
even if i agree with you that most unemployed are lazy, the best way to encourage them to work would be to give incentives like increasing the minimum wage etc.
to cut off health care infringes on the human right to live. and it would really sound bad if in the richest country in the world, people are left to die by curable diseases..
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-11 12:44:16 EDT (#)
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Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-10 23:37:00 EDT (#)
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"but it is next to impossible for me to believe that there are any hard working people out there who can't find a job after a month or two of looking"
Indoninja, Real Life.
Real Life, Indoninja.
I think you two have a lot of catching up to do.
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Eat shit woody. I worked after highschool and paid my way through college, I graduated in debt and paid that off myself. I have lived in places with real poverty. I know what real life is like.
There are small towns out there that lose their only industry, and I can see how places like that may make it hard to find work for a few months. But there is not a single reason in the world for a healthy adult to go unemployed for months in any city. You may not find a great job, or even a good job, but there are jobs out there and if people are too proud to take them so they can help support themselves then the govt shouldn't be stepping in to help them.
Most people who are unemployed CHOOSE not to work.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-05-10 23:37:00 EDT (#)
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"but it is next to impossible for me to believe that there are any hard working people out there who can't find a job after a month or two of looking"
Indoninja, Real Life.
Real Life, Indoninja.
I think you two have a lot of catching up to do.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-10 20:44:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm saying if you are 40 then you probably have a family half way through a house and cars, i'm not saying you shouldn't work, but it's very likely if you start from the bottom again, you'll still be running debts every month. i'm not saying they should do nothing, i'm pointing out to you that when factories close, and 3000 people are suddenly jobless, to expect every single one of them to be able to find a new job within years is unreasonable given their circumstances ..
that and the fact most companies won't hire anyone over 40 that still requires training..
you are talking about a lot of exceptions now, who's gonna take care of those exceptions in a fully privatised health care system? the insurance companies? are they doing that now?
i know you don't want to subsidise people who are unwilling to work, that's fine, what i am saying is re my earlier example about chopping of hands, there is bound to be hardworking people hard done by, and to threaten these people with lack of healthcare is cruel..
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-10 19:42:26 EDT (#)
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Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-10 17:47:52 EDT (#)
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i understand your difference in ideology, but don't understand your contempt of the unemployed.
have you not heard of globalisation? here are some examples, last year the MG rover car factory in the uk was shutting down and being sold to some chinese company. the directors were rich kids sons and bought the factory in 2000 for a token some of a tenner. a whole factory of people are suddenly unemployed, so when you are saying jobs not a career, you mean something like pumping gas or odd jobs like that? you expect a same town which has just lost its biggest employer to accomadate a few thousand new workers?
there are lots of cases where once a factory shuts down, the whole town's economy collapses. it's because suddenly a big portion of the town becomes jobless and people are more frugal with money and trade suffers.
another example, a few months ago, the burberry factory here in the uk is closing and moving to china. everyone is laid of. some have been working for most of their lives. they know nothing else. which company would want to employ and spend money to retrain a 40-year-old when they can use the same money to train a 20-year-old and get more worth for their money. can the 40ear old afford to start from the bottom again? now you want to tell him he better not get sick?
even wihtout those examples, uk's unemployment rate last year was 5.5%, that's 330000 people, you are telling me that's because every single one of them are lazy and unwilling to work?
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So what are you saying? That if you are 40 and lose your job you should never work again unless you get the same pay? What is better taking an economic kick in the balls and starting over or not working because you won't get the same. Factories closed before globalization, and I have sympathy for hard workers who have to start over, but it is no excuse to sit on your ass and do nothing. Starting over is hard but you don't help your situation by doing nothing.
I think in economically depressed areas where a towns main, or only big employer leaves you could make an exception. However just because a town closes its factory doesn't mean people can't move or find a lower paying job.
Not every single one of them, but I am sure a lot of them are qualified for jobs they choose not to take. Why should I pay taxes to take care of someone else who chooses not to work. I am all for an economic safety net for those that are willing to work, and unless you are an idiot you have to realize there are a lot of people who aren't willing, especially when they don't have to worry about taking care of themselves.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-10 17:47:52 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-10 16:39:50 EDT (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-10 12:55:55 EDT (#)
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As I said before peole are laid off, in between jobs, etc should have some type of supplemental coverage while they get their life back in order.
but it is next to impossible for me to believe that there are any hard working people out there who can't find a job after a month or two of looking (maybe not a career).
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Agreed. And isn't is funny how students struggling to put themselves through college or the guy on your block who has been 'looking for work' for a year now can't afford monthly payments on a medical plan but they always have plenty of cash for beer and pot and gasoline?
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i understand your difference in ideology, but don't understand your contempt of the unemployed.
have you not heard of globalisation? here are some examples, last year the MG rover car factory in the uk was shutting down and being sold to some chinese company. the directors were rich kids sons and bought the factory in 2000 for a token some of a tenner. a whole factory of people are suddenly unemployed, so when you are saying jobs not a career, you mean something like pumping gas or odd jobs like that? you expect a same town which has just lost its biggest employer to accomadate a few thousand new workers?
there are lots of cases where once a factory shuts down, the whole town's economy collapses. it's because suddenly a big portion of the town becomes jobless and people are more frugal with money and trade suffers.
another example, a few months ago, the burberry factory here in the uk is closing and moving to china. everyone is laid of. some have been working for most of their lives. they know nothing else. which company would want to employ and spend money to retrain a 40-year-old when they can use the same money to train a 20-year-old and get more worth for their money. can the 40ear old afford to start from the bottom again? now you want to tell him he better not get sick?
even wihtout those examples, uk's unemployment rate last year was 5.5%, that's 330000 people, you are telling me that's because every single one of them are lazy and unwilling to work?
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-10 16:39:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-10 12:55:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
As I said before peole are laid off, in between jobs, etc should have some type of supplemental coverage while they get their life back in order.
but it is next to impossible for me to believe that there are any hard working people out there who can't find a job after a month or two of looking (maybe not a career).
-
Agreed. And isn't is funny how students struggling to put themselves through college or the guy on your block who has been 'looking for work' for a year now can't afford monthly payments on a medical plan but they always have plenty of cash for beer and pot and gasoline?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-10 12:55:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-09 22:10:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
the problem with this is, no matter how tight your system is, there's bound to be genuinely hardworking people who can't find jobs however hard they try, maybe ex-cons, or maybe someone just very unlucky, should these people be left to die? i think it's the same reason why we don't chop of the hands of thieves, like in saudi arabia.. it's because there's always a chance we might get it wrong.
-------------------------
As I said before peole are laid off, in between jobs, etc should have some type of supplemental coverage while they get their life back in order.
but it is next to impossible for me to believe that there are any hard working people out there who can't find a job after a month or two of looking (maybe not a career).
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-10 12:53:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2007-05-10 09:38:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In America, you could save for retirement all your life, get sick at 63, and if your non-group privatized healthcare decides to drop you (which they can), you are on the hook for all your medical bills, and yes, you WILL lose everything, including your savings and your house.
Think about that. Imagine owning a business and not qualifying for group healthcare. In that case, nothing in this country protects you from getting sick and losing all your assets. Nothing. Blue Cross is supposed to be the last resort, but even THEY can exclude your illness if they want. And they do. How do I know this? My parents are old. They know people that have lost everything.
The bankruptcy laws have been changed, thanks to Mr. Bush. You can't dismiss your medical bills through bankruptcy. Ever. Where's the protection for the common citizen?
I had elective day surgery in March and it costs my healthcare provider $45,000. I love the work that was done, but $45,000? And this was after six months of approvals, for something that was deemed medically necessary. And I didn't stay over. If I did, the fees would have soared into the six figures. Why is healthcare that expensive? Answer: greed. Someone has to get rich. That's America.
I agree that the socialized medical systems of the world are broken, and that the answer lies somewhere in between privatized and socialized medicine. But I will never support a fully privatized system. My assets have been destroyed because of minor issues that I needed corrected. And I have healthcare! I still have to pay out the ass for my care, after all is said and done. It's insane, especially considering the amount of money I pay in taxes and in healthcare premiums now. Screw it, I'll pay more in taxes if I can avoid another round of this bullshit.
--------------------
You can't get dropped for being sick or when you are sick. They can decide to stop covering you but if you developed anything while they were covering you they have to treat that problem until it is fixed. For instance if you got cancer and last year you had pneumonia, they may decide you are too expensive an account they would still have to cover the cancer, but you would need new insurance for any new problems.
Elective surgery that was deemed medically necessary? How is that possible?
I agree that we need some type of govt regulation to keep insurance and the health care industry in general from rippping people off, but I know promising everyone healthcare isn't the answer.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-10 12:48:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
But ETS, when you were talking about Ron Paul you forgot to mention Ron Paul's view's on exactly the kind of problems I brought up for discussion here, because Ron Paul does not endorse our current nanny state mentality and Ron Paul does not support our current welfare state status and Ron Paul is just really cool because Ron Paul knows the truth about everything.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-10 10:00:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
haha.. americans have trouble discussing socialism after they kicked out the commies during the cold war era..
still sweden isn't really socialist though.. they are more like controlled capitalism
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-10 09:40:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I realize that everyone here seems to hate socialism, but doesn't norway or sweden have a pretty efficient healthcare system?
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2007-05-10 09:38:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In America, you could save for retirement all your life, get sick at 63, and if your non-group privatized healthcare decides to drop you (which they can), you are on the hook for all your medical bills, and yes, you WILL lose everything, including your savings and your house.
Think about that. Imagine owning a business and not qualifying for group healthcare. In that case, nothing in this country protects you from getting sick and losing all your assets. Nothing. Blue Cross is supposed to be the last resort, but even THEY can exclude your illness if they want. And they do. How do I know this? My parents are old. They know people that have lost everything.
The bankruptcy laws have been changed, thanks to Mr. Bush. You can't dismiss your medical bills through bankruptcy. Ever. Where's the protection for the common citizen?
I had elective day surgery in March and it costs my healthcare provider $45,000. I love the work that was done, but $45,000? And this was after six months of approvals, for something that was deemed medically necessary. And I didn't stay over. If I did, the fees would have soared into the six figures. Why is healthcare that expensive? Answer: greed. Someone has to get rich. That's America.
I agree that the socialized medical systems of the world are broken, and that the answer lies somewhere in between privatized and socialized medicine. But I will never support a fully privatized system. My assets have been destroyed because of minor issues that I needed corrected. And I have healthcare! I still have to pay out the ass for my care, after all is said and done. It's insane, especially considering the amount of money I pay in taxes and in healthcare premiums now. Screw it, I'll pay more in taxes if I can avoid another round of this bullshit.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-10 08:49:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-05-10 04:19:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm turning more conservative by the minute.
===
you turned a lot of things over the course of a few months.
not long ago you wanted to live in the woods eating squirrels, now you're a conservative
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-10 05:41:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and there are lots of theories why this 'borrowing' is helping growth, nice to see you dismiss them all in a sentence...
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-10 05:38:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ets:
does ron paul plan to set up this "Consumer Reports Bureau" you propose?
what if there is corruption? what if the corporations find loopholes?
ron paul sounds pretty far right, and that is a very dangerous road to go down..
getting manufacturing back into the us is a good idea too, but how do you plan to square it with competition from other countries?
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-05-10 04:28:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hey ETS, here's a quote for ya
"where there is man, there is a problem.
No man, no problem..."
J.V Stalin
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-05-10 04:19:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am of the mind that the only bureau the American Federal Government needs is an anti-trust/anti-fraud bureau to step in when companies are conspiring to overcharge consumers for commodities and services deemed integral to national and economic security. There are some commodities and services that do not follow the typical laws of supply and demand because the demand is virtually independent of price.
Among these, hospital visits, fuel purchases, electricity, etc.
We need like a "Consumer Reports Bureau" to police big, interstate or international-based business and keep them honest.
Then the people could bring lawsuits against these corporations for their misdeeds.
Pretty much everything else in the Federal Government can go. Let's get back to states rights and leave the Federal Government to ensure that civil liberties are upheld and that national defense is accounted for. No more nation building and no more interventionalist foreign policy. Stop Federal Personal Income Taxes and start getting smart with our money.
Get our tarrifs on imported goods on par with the tarrifs imposed on our exported goods and let's get our manufacturing base back in this country.
Then let's abolish the Federal Reserve and get back to a commodity-backed currency. This modern thinking of borrowing being OK is getting us further and further down the road to ruin. It's not promoting "growth" in the economy, it's devaluing our currency to almost nothing.
The dollar is at an all time low against the Euro. It is worth only HALF what the British Pound is worth, and now one can't buy an ounce of gold for less than $700. Silver is also near record high prices against the dollar. Bottom line, our currency is completely worthless, and more and more countries are discovering this as their perception in the might of our military is weakened.
That is, after all, the ONLY thing backing our currency besides the paper it's printed on...military muscle. Without that, we have nothing. Without every 10 years or so showing the world what we can do to secure our oil and keep it flowing our way, we have nothing. Like Ron Paul says, fiat currencies NEVER work. They've been tried before and they have always spelled the downfall of the countries that have issued them.
I'm turning more conservative by the minute.
"In the eyes of empire builders men are not men but instruments" (This was from a time when even dictators had some measure of honesty.)
-Napoleon Bonaparte
"Americans never fought for empire, for territory, for dominance -- but many, many Americans gave their lives for freedom." (Or so they thought.)
-Bill Clinton's speech writer
"The United States is unique because we are an empire of ideals." (Hey, at least Reagan admits it. I guess I see why he gets all that undeserved praise now.)
-Ronald Reagan's speech writer
"America is a Nation with a mission - and that mission comes from our most basic beliefs. We have no desire to dominate, no ambitions of empire. Our aim is a democratic peace - a peace founded upon the dignity and rights of every man and woman." (Except, of course, for Iraqis, the Iranians, the Koreans, the Japanese, the Hawaiians, the Cubans, the Guatamalans, the Panamanians, the Sudanese, the Afghanis, the Palestinians, the Bosnians, and any one of the hundred other countries whose people have been told what to do and when to do it via U.S. interventionalist, neo-colonialist, pseudo-silent-empire building foreign policies.)
-George W. Bush's speech writer
"An empire founded by war has to maintain itself by war." (Show me an empire NOT founded by war and I'll show you something that isn't an empire.)
-Charles de Montesquieu
"The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy." (This guy was one of the biggest tools in American history. Either that, or one of the biggest traitors.)
-Woodrow Wilson after signing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2007-05-09 22:24:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:46:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Working is the same subject. You shouldn't be entitled to healthcare unless you work. No I am not arguing that you hsould be cut off if you got fired the same day, I am for plans that will cover you between jobs, but if you haven't worked in a few months, and aren't trying I see no reason the state should be shelling out money to keep you alive.
----------------------------------
Jesus Christ.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-09 22:10:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:46:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Working is the same subject. You shouldn't be entitled to healthcare unless you work. No I am not arguing that you hsould be cut off if you got fired the same day, I am for plans that will cover you between jobs, but if you haven't worked in a few months, and aren't trying I see no reason the state should be shelling out money to keep you alive.
--------------
the problem with this is, no matter how tight your system is, there's bound to be genuinely hardworking people who can't find jobs however hard they try, maybe ex-cons, or maybe someone just very unlucky, should these people be left to die? i think it's the same reason why we don't chop of the hands of thieves, like in saudi arabia.. it's because there's always a chance we might get it wrong.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-09 20:10:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:28:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
debating music is stupid because really the only type of music that has its roots in the US is Jazz/Blues
****
WHAT A MORON!!! Blues has its roots in African music, as does jazz. The only TRUE American music is Country. If you want to spout shit, stand over a toilet.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 18:26:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
???
who cares if it's a new fad or not. doesn't matter.
what i and no1 said was that all you ever post about is that america/christian/english/caucasians > x country/x religion/x language/x race
and your response was "HAHAHAHAHA, NEW FAD, HAHAHAHAHA, YOU COPY CAUL, HAHAHAHAHAHA, I'M STILL A FUCKING IDIOT HAHAHA"
get help, man
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 18:18:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Caulaincourt: Angry and defensive when corrected.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 18:06:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 16:56:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:08:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
jack, i wouldn't laugh too much considering that all you ever do is make boring "my country is better" contests. you are almost as tiresome as your terrible fiction.
--
I'm laughing at your ignorance, BOY.
That shit was going on long before you or I were born.
===
sure it was, cat-fucker. but not nearly as much as today with the internet and all the keyboard rambos like yourself who compare their country with another.
when i was young, rivalries were mostly between cities. now with mass communication, the world has become tiny and the retards like you are much more visible.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 16:59:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by PerkMan (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:10:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I guess if you don't make enough money to take care of yourself then you don't have the right to live.. right Jack?
But I love that you have to pay for medical shit. My brother is a pharmacist. He makes bank. So yeah stop with that universal bullshit.
--
Did I say that? No.
If you are destitute, a sebior on a fixed income, etc., that is the ONLY time publicly funded healthcare should come into play. Anyone with a job should have to pay for their own, including all the snivelling arts students who work a few hours a week and live at home with mom and dad and then go on and on about the struggle life has given them.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 16:56:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:08:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
jack, i wouldn't laugh too much considering that all you ever do is make boring "my country is better" contests. you are almost as tiresome as your terrible fiction.
--
I'm laughing at your ignorance, BOY.
That shit was going on long before you or I were born.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 16:55:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:23:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Pot meet Kettle. Have you read your own posts? Jack Post Formula : USA > Country du jour ; USA is great because (insert patriotic babble). Country sucks because (insert generic stereotype and conjecture, add filler, add dose of racism); promote violence and fascism ; Conclusion USA FTW!!!
So don't get to excited, you feline fiddling faggot.
--
You seem genuinely unaware of how much you embarrass yourself every time you echo Caulaincourt word for word. At least STEAL from someone else for a change. Asking for an original though would be asking too much.
Submitted by ShermanTankBuddhaBalls (user info) at 2007-05-09 16:45:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by shredhead (user info) at 2007-05-09 15:41:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
haha this post is worth it just for the picture of the kangaroo doctor
Submitted by shredhead (user info) at 2007-05-09 15:41:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
haha this post is worth t just for teh picture of the kangaroo doctor
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2007-05-09 15:10:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-05-08 15:32:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Keeping your legs closed. The cheapest contraceptive this side of heaven since 5,000,000 B.C.
---
Orgasmo just went to #2 on my "Most awesome" list. #1 will always be Jack, of course, especially for the Photoshop.
Oh, more "Soulless" and "Dragonstone" on the way.
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:39:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Government mangement of anything generally blows.
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:28:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
debating music is stupid because really the only type of music that has its roots in the US is Jazz/Blues
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:23:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:01:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 13:48:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't know if it's a new fad among canadian kids, but since when is pride comparing yourself with your neighbour?
--
A new fad?
Haha.
Hahahahaha.
HahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!
---------------------
Pot meet Kettle. Have you read your own posts? Jack Post Formula : USA > Country du jour ; USA is great because (insert patriotic babble). Country sucks because (insert generic stereotype and conjecture, add filler, add dose of racism); promote violence and fascism ; Conclusion USA FTW!!!
So don't get to excited, you feline fiddling faggot.
Submitted by PerkMan (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:10:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I guess if you don't make enough money to take care of yourself then you don't have the right to live.. right Jack?
But I love that you have to pay for medical shit. My brother is a pharmacist. He makes bank. So yeah stop with that universal bullshit.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:08:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
jack, i wouldn't laugh too much considering that all you ever do is make boring "my country is better" contests. you are almost as tiresome as your terrible fiction.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 14:01:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 13:48:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't know if it's a new fad among canadian kids, but since when is pride comparing yourself with your neighbour?
--
A new fad?
Haha.
Hahahahaha.
HahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 13:48:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't know if it's a new fad among canadian kids, but since when is pride comparing yourself with your neighbour? if anything, it only shows a weak ego and insecurity...way to go.
a lot of americans do it too with europe or canada and whatnot but i don,t give a shit, they don't live here. when i see canadians do it though, it's fucking embarassing.
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-05-09 13:44:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:28:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
But I don't dislike the USA, whenever I visit my relatives down south I always have a good time, and I don't think all americans are ignorant of Canadian culture, just like I know that fully half of my classmates are semi retarded,
------------------------------------------------------------
Don't worry Corky, keep plugging away, one day you'll catch up to the other half of your classmates that are only semi-retarded. In the meantime, keep your chin up and your helmet on.
PS. STFU and go back to class. You're a fucking idiot. Between you and Rob_Berg, I feel embaressed to live in Canada.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:56:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
we invented Celine Dion and Avril Lavigne!
HEY YOU! HEY YOU! I DON'T LIKE YOUR GIRLFRIEND! HEY YOU! HEY YOU! I THINK YOU NEED A NEW ONE! SHE'S SO LIKE WHATEVER!
did you guys hear this song yet?
it's horrible. when i saw that clip on TV http://youtube.com/watch?v=cQ25-glGRzI , I looked at my brother and said: "am i dreaming or is this shit actually real?"
it traumatized me
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:50:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:28:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, when was the last time you heard the statement "Straight out of Jane and finch"? (ONe of the slummier areas of the GTA)
--
And when was the last time Canada gave birth to a music genre that captured a generation?
USA SCORECARD
-The Blues
-Jazz
-Country & Western
-Rock & Roll
-Gospel
-R&B
-Punk
-Grunge
-Hip-hop (more PG than R)
-Rap (as in harder edge, gangsta stuff)
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:34:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
list of distinct things in anglo-canadian culture:
- cold weather
- not being american
fin.
stfu, you embarass me.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:33:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:28:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, when was the last time you heard the statement "Straight out of Jane and finch"? (ONe of the slummier areas of the GTA)
-------------------------
Well I haven't heard straight out of Compton for about 10 years, so what are you trying to say.
Your music is 10 years behind and canadian rap sucks?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:32:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:28:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, when was the last time you heard the statement "Straight out of Jane and finch"? (ONe of the slummier areas of the GTA)
But I don't dislike the USA, whenever I visit my relatives down south I always have a good time, and I don't think all americans are ignorant of Canadian culture, just like I know that fully half of my classmates are semi retarded, I just don't really like people dissing my country, and sure you might have to wait in emergency for like 3 hours but I still appreciate the fact that if some poor member of Canadian society gets injured, the government will take care of him
===
that was a long sentence.
can you explain me what is Canadian 'culture' (i'm canadian btw) and why should americans give a fuck?
this self-importance in canada is second only to healthcare to my top 10 reasons why i would gtfo of this country.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:31:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Heads up, DasHeer.
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.thestar.com/Life/article/198318
Creationism debate continues to evolve
Intelligent design creeping into Canadian schools, academic warns
McGill University professor Brian Alters says research has shown one-third of teachers report pressure from parents to teach creationism or intelligent design.
------------------------------------------------
HAR HAR JESUS SAVES, EH?
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:28:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, when was the last time you heard the statement "Straight out of Jane and finch"? (ONe of the slummier areas of the GTA)
But I don't dislike the USA, whenever I visit my relatives down south I always have a good time, and I don't think all americans are ignorant of Canadian culture, just like I know that fully half of my classmates are semi retarded, I just don't really like people dissing my country, and sure you might have to wait in emergency for like 3 hours but I still appreciate the fact that if some poor member of Canadian society gets injured, the government will take care of him
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:27:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:22:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
By the way don't you guys in the south still get taught creationism?
--
Not as much as Canadians support horrific publicly funded failures like needle exchange programs.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:26:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:24:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:19:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
In canada we might have slums, but none can compare to the great american legacy of the "GHETTO"!
And last time I checked Canada was sixth in the world for Highest standard of living vs the US at 8th
===
this canada > america shit annoys me even more than the america > canada shit because i know the moron is in my country
--
HAHAHAHA!
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:25:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Defense?
States rights means the states have the rights to do what they want. Jesus.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:24:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:19:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
In canada we might have slums, but none can compare to the great american legacy of the "GHETTO"!
And last time I checked Canada was sixth in the world for Highest standard of living vs the US at 8th
===
this canada > america shit annoys me even more than the america > canada shit because i know the moron is in my country
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:24:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:19:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
In canada we might have slums, but none can compare to the great american legacy of the "GHETTO"!
And last time I checked Canada was sixth in the world for Highest standard of living vs the US at 8th
--------------------------
Yep, america is the home of the ghetto.
You have officially lost your right to complain about education in the US if you think there is even a kernel of truth to the above statement.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:23:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Also, for a supposedly enlightened part of the multicultural mosiac, you seem to have a real problem with blacks.
You've been here one day and all you can say is nigger and ghetto? Go have a beer with Caulaincourt, you guys will get on just fine.
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:22:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
actually I do know about states rights, and how you could ever consider using that as a defense is unimaginable. I would say that the discrepancy of states is a negative not a plus.
By the way don't you guys in the south still get taught creationism?
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:21:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Americans are ignorant of Canada, but it's never the other way around. No sir.
v
v
v
v
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:19:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
In canada we might have slums, but none can compare to the great american legacy of the "GHETTO"!
And last time I checked Canada was sixth in the world for Highest standard of living vs the US at 8th
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:18:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
DasHeer? Helloooooooooo?
The Negroes can vote these days as well.
What a country!
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:17:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:00:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
...where elementary school curriculum and standards are not uniform...
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Well, here in the United STATES of America, we have these entities called STATES, and they have certain rights which... aw, fuck you, Google it.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:14:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Harlem is economically equivalent to the 3rd world?
Harlem is experiencing growth and prosperity. What the fuck are you talking about?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:14:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
oops, sorry
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:14:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:07:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:00:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh yes, the great united states, where the third world lives in proximity to the developed, where elementary school curriculum and standards are not uniform, and where you can sue anyone for anything. Sure sounds like somewhere I'd like to live.
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Can someone give me the heads up on exactly why the state of the Mexican economy is America's fault?
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hum...i think he was talking about within the US.
your ghettos are quite a sight.
hurricane katrina shed light on beautiful 'people'!
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:10:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:07:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:00:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh yes, the great united states, where the third world lives in proximity to the developed, where elementary school curriculum and standards are not uniform, and where you can sue anyone for anything. Sure sounds like somewhere I'd like to live.
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Can someone give me the heads up on exactly why the state of the Mexican economy is America's fault?
By the way, DasHeer, I'm filing a suit against you under California's Internet Douchbeggery statute. LOcal filing, international reach. You will be served shortly.
_____________________________
Sorry, didn't realize that harlem was in mexico
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:07:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:00:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh yes, the great united states, where the third world lives in proximity to the developed, where elementary school curriculum and standards are not uniform, and where you can sue anyone for anything. Sure sounds like somewhere I'd like to live.
--
Can someone give me the heads up on exactly why the state of the Mexican economy is America's fault?
By the way, DasHeer, I'm filing a suit against you under California's Internet Douchbeggery statute. LOcal filing, international reach. You will be served shortly.
Submitted by DasHeer (user info) at 2007-05-09 12:00:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh yes, the great united states, where the third world lives in proximity to the developed, where elementary school curriculum and standards are not uniform, and where you can sue anyone for anything. Sure sounds like somewhere I'd like to live.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 11:51:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 11:38:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
that's a choice you made. i know you want me to bow down america's system cuz everything else is pure shit, but truth is, there isn't a perfect system. they all have benefits and disadvantages. in healthcare, those 'disadvantages' are rather unfortunate which is why it's not an entirely rational debate. so i would personally like to see a mixed system. now, it's just my opinion so go nuts about how the world should convert to your way of life.
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There isn't a perfect system?
Look to the south my Canuck friend!
Every system in America is perfect.
From healthcare to education we are a beacon of light shining down into a bleak and harsh world.
From law enforcement to international policy we are the voice of reason in a maelstrom of insanity and backward savagery.
Every man woman and child in the world should wake up with the Star Spangled Banner flowing from their lips and spend their days emulating the perfection that is the US.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 11:40:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i meant DON'T go nuts....for the love of god, please no.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 11:38:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 10:40:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wouldn't that take 1/3 of the doctors? ""
that's simplisitic. with more competition and a relieved healthcare system with more ressources, we'd stop this doctor mass exode. we form more than enough of them. they just flee :-\
Wouldn't that leave the bottom 2/3s in the same shitty situation? """
if you remove 1/3 of the traffic on a road, the situation will be better for the remaining 2/3. in doesn't take a genius to know that. right now the system is overload and lacks the ressources to treat everyone. redirecting a part of population that could afford private physicians would make everything better. i'm not talking about going to mars, the mixed system is in place elsewhere and works wonderfully.
By screw I mean that they won't be able to afford the good healthcare, yet they will still be working hard and paying taxes for deadbeats who will be clogging the "free" healthcare."""
you don't have to be a billionaire to afford a decent insurance plan. even idiots like Jack can do it. i'm no fan of deadbeats but i personally believe we still have the obligation to provide them healthcare. that again, is my personal (and our collective) viewpoint so please don't have another one of your american conniption that everything different is offensive and wrong.
I have a problem seeing how any system that promises everyone treatment will work."""
again, mixed systems work well in a lot of countries. it's not perfect and it costs a lot to the tax payer but that is a society's choice. there is no problem. your problem as usual, is that you assume it's shit cuz it's different than in america.
I think access to good healthcare for anyone who works, or pay into a seperate plan is fair. If you don't contributr I don;t want to see tax dollars pay to keep you alive. """
that's a choice you made. i know you want me to bow down america's system cuz everything else is pure shit, but truth is, there isn't a perfect system. they all have benefits and disadvantages. in healthcare, those 'disadvantages' are rather unfortunate which is why it's not an entirely rational debate. so i would personally like to see a mixed system. now, it's just my opinion so go nuts about how the world should convert to your way of life.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 10:40:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 09:10:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
if by 'screw' you mean, paying taxes...then yes. but i consider that paying more taxes so that everyone can have access to healthcare, is fair, not to mention ethical. that's my personal belief. what doesn't make any sense, is seeing half my paycheck disappear and have no service in return. seeing billions being poured into a system that just eat money and doesn't heal people is disgusting.
if only one-third of our population went to private clinics, the public system would find itself relieved.
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Wouldn't that take 1/3 of the doctors?
Wouldn't that leave the bottom 2/3s in the same shitty situation?
By screw I mean that they won't be able to afford the good healthcare, yet they will still be working hard and paying taxes for deadbeats who will be clogging the "free" healthcare.
I have a problem seeing how any system that promises everyone treatment will work.
I think access to good healthcare for anyone who works, or pay into a seperate plan is fair. If you don't contributr I don;t want to see tax dollars pay to keep you alive.
Submitted by JoeyG (user info) at 2007-05-09 10:26:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I see where you're coming from, but our NHS is a much bigger pain in the ass.
I've just read an article about how many nurses have been laid off, and in the very next article, it says they've spent over half a million on hospital art in the past couple of years.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 09:10:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 09:02:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 08:41:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't know if there's any other place in the world where a rich fellow doesn't even have the option to go to a private clinic, but this is getting retarded.
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with a mixed system, isn't it still going to screw the middle class?
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if by 'screw' you mean, paying taxes...then yes. but i consider that paying more taxes so that everyone can have access to healthcare, is fair, not to mention ethical. that's my personal belief. what doesn't make any sense, is seeing half my paycheck disappear and have no service in return. seeing billions being poured into a system that just eat money and doesn't heal people is disgusting.
if only one-third of our population went to private clinics, the public system would find itself relieved.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 09:02:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 08:41:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't know if there's any other place in the world where a rich fellow doesn't even have the option to go to a private clinic, but this is getting retarded.
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with a mixed system, isn't it still going to screw the middle class?
If you are rich you can come to the US, or a neighboring province can't you?
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-05-09 08:51:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes well it's much better to have half the country uninsured and using the emergency rooms as their primary care physician. It's always a good idea to allow what would be minor health issues turn into major problems by not catching them early. After all how can you compare the excitement of say double pneumonia with a $15 flu shot.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 08:43:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm all for socialized health care btw...but we should leave some room for the private sector so that people can choose and create competition.
this monopoly over healthcare is idiotic and irresponsible
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-09 08:41:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
trust me, we quebecers know about the problems of 100% socialized healthcare....what's the average waiting time in an emergency on the montreal island......20 hours! last year, a few people died just waiting for their turns.
here are the problems...
abuse - being an open public area, with not even a 'moderator fee', people overload the system. hobos will threaten to kill themselves just to have a warm bed. old people who go through loneliness will go to the emergency every week just to chat with people, it becomes like a bingo place. people who are not really that sick but need to cry on a doctor shoulder. you'd think the waiting time would stop those people, but no and as all these little exceptions add up, so does cost.
heavy administrative structure - it is said that there are 11 civil servants for 1 doctor here. i don't have to write a long paragraph to figure out how absurd and costly that is. oh the joys of government monopoly.
lack of personel - underpaid and working in shitty environments, we have a shortage of nurses and most importantly, doctors. it's good to have money (if at least we had it) but you need someone to work in those hospitals. it is ILLEGAL (no kidding) for a doctor to practice privately in QC (except for a few cases) so it is only normal that not only will they shun the public system, they will expatriate themselves ELSEWHERE!
waiting lists - a test was done with three patients in the USA, France and Quebec for a minor operation (i don't remember what). in the US, the patient underwent surgery within 24h. in France, 48h. in Quebec....4 months! at the end, the man's condition had deteriorated to such a point that he was living at home plugged with a bunch of machines. it was quite a sight. so not only is the man drainnig the system, but while he does so, he cannot go back being a productive citizen like the two others. the indirect costs are exponential.
and so much more... our system is so hopeless, it's not even fun to talk about it. sure it has its advantages for the poor but it ends there. every western country's system is gonna be tested with the baby boomers growing old. ours is already on the brink of falling apart. people are dying of C.Difficile all over the place for christ's sake...talk about third world. we're in for lots of fun.
i don't know if there's any other place in the world where a rich fellow doesn't even have the option to go to a private clinic, but this is getting retarded.
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-05-09 08:36:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
don't get me wrong indo, I'm not saying its the cure all, but thank you for the advice on how to handle my sicknesses.
what I am saying is that some of the ideas behind socialized healthcare could certainly help the system we have, a middle ground between socialized and privatized.
As far as paying for healtcare for those who don't work I agree that the system gets abused and that must be addressed but you can't say, without knowing every circumstance of every case, that no one that is out of work should be getting healthcare.
shut it rad, fucking pantywaist
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:59:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
woman
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:59:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
EmoJean shut up
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:46:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:32:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Could we agree that the doctors in some form of socialized healthcare would still be compensated pretty well? I mean their not going to be getting minimum wage, their healthcare will be taken care of and they'll still get to drive their hummers and all will be happy but maybe just maybe I won't have to come back 3 times and pay 3 co-pays for a case of the fucking sniffles.
And to that point they should still be happy with what they are paid, the only reason they wouldn't be is because they were so used to raping people daily for so many years that when it was put to a stop they'd be miffed. Maybe if we hadn't let it get to this point it wouldn't be such a big deal.
Do I think you should have to work everyday to earn good healthcare? Yes but that is a different arguement so don't try to deflect by changing the subject. YOu want to talk about healthcare or unemployment?
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Socialized healthcare isn't magically going to cut down on the number of visits you have to the doctor. In my experience anything the govt gets involved with requires more paper work, and more jumping through hoops. I know with my insurance now to see a specialist I have to go to a regular doc first, I am guessing it is the same in most socialized healthcare systems (as far as sniffles you shouldn't be going to the doctor for it, and I am sure a GP can fix it).
Working is the same subject. You shouldn't be entitled to healthcare unless you work. No I am not arguing that you hsould be cut off if you got fired the same day, I am for plans that will cover you between jobs, but if you haven't worked in a few months, and aren't trying I see no reason the state should be shelling out money to keep you alive.
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:32:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-08 16:17:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-05-08 15:16:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so I should give a fuck if a doctor is underpaid or overworked?
I'm sorry but no one gives a fuck if i'm underpaid or overworked and yet amazingly i'm still required to go to work everyday and do my fucking job.
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Time to install new tard filters.
How many lives hang in the balance while you do YOUR job?
I don't care if my pizza guy has spontaneously combustible hemorrhoids and shows up late, but I want my doctor sharp and satisfied and ready to do his best, because my life is in his hands.
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First off you can drop the condesencion that you have because you are assuming that I'm a woman based on my username...I have a valid opinion either way and just because it doesn't jive with yours does not mean that I'm a tard. People that share your view points and opinions on things have fucked this country from the floor up so don't look at what I say and scoff just because if might be different than the way we've always done it.
There's a saying that I'm sure in all your many years...you've heard. "If you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always gotten"
It applies here. Sure you can write a post about an issue that is one sided and stand firm in your arguements and run it up to most heated and sound like a closed minded 'old boy' but that's so fucking easy to do...look at all the alters that do it daily. But it takes more nuts, more thought, more of a fucking open mind to look at all sides.
Could we agree that the doctors in some form of socialized healthcare would still be compensated pretty well? I mean their not going to be getting minimum wage, their healthcare will be taken care of and they'll still get to drive their hummers and all will be happy but maybe just maybe I won't have to come back 3 times and pay 3 co-pays for a case of the fucking sniffles.
And to that point they should still be happy with what they are paid, the only reason they wouldn't be is because they were so used to raping people daily for so many years that when it was put to a stop they'd be miffed. Maybe if we hadn't let it get to this point it wouldn't be such a big deal.
Do I think you should have to work everyday to earn good healthcare? Yes but that is a different arguement so don't try to deflect by changing the subject. YOu want to talk about healthcare or unemployment?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-05-09 07:31:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-08 22:12:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
the point is, you tend to look into details and often link articles (often biased ones) to defend american policy, but when it comes to bashing other countries policies like jack does in this post or he did in billingualism...you don't even bother to check if what jack says is factual and covers all the angles.
http://britishexpats.com/articles/canada/healthcare-in-canada/
britain != canada
for someone who put so much energy into defending everything america does, even the most retarded policies like iraq, you sure are lazy when it comes to checking your facts on other nations. agreeing with jack's retarded comparisons on billingualism without a second thought makes you look dishonest.
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First off I don't defend everything America does.
However I do know more about America than I do Canada and America is brought up a great deal more than Canada, and when I see something I know is incorrect or only part of the story I will say something. So it should be pretty easy to see why I comment on things about America more often.
As far as Jack's beliefs on bilingualism I think I explained my point pretty clearly here http://www.ubersite.com/m/101345#2402081
I don't think the US and Canada are in the same boat at all, however it is still a lesson to America of why NOT to be bilingual. I gave him the +2 because I was amazed by the quote "The less bilingualism is perceived as government-directed social engineering, and the more it is seen as a personal choice that can bring benefits that are relevant to the real lives of citizens, the more receptive the public will be." bilingualism may be in great shape in Canada, I just don't know, but if the govt admits it wants to trick you into thinking it isn't social engineering so you are more willing to learn another language is an indicator that it isn't.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2007-05-09 06:23:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Damn that British socialism.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-05-09 06:01:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The question of degrees is kind of small. Either you say a degree is a specialised qualification for someone doing a special line of work or vocation, or it's a worthless scrap of paper that everyone has.
I don't really see either instance impacting on public health though.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2007-05-09 05:48:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-05-08 18:23:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
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Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2007-05-08 23:19:24 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-05-08 18:01:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-08 22:56:20 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
nice argument..."fuck the artists, lol!"