Racism? (694 hits)
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Submitted by wing nut <wing_nut74.at.yahoo.com> (View user info) at 2003-07-28 12:22:47 EDT
Racism exists, I know this. But as a white, middle class, male I guess by definition I am the enemy.
My problem with racism is that it will always exist. It may shift to different races, religions, or sexual orientations, but it will always be present.
I guess this bothers me because I never experience it. I don't see it. I do not associate with people that are racist and do not see it around me.
So when I see "civil leaders" crusading for their race, it confuses me. Could they be doing more harm than good? I believe that we should never stop trying for equality for everyone, but I also think that it will never happen. Racism always seems at the top of our nation's to-do-list, but is that bad? Or maybe it is just a go to issue, one that is always there, that stirs emotions, and can be used to help someone's agenda.
Granted there were SERIOUS civil injustices going on in America's history, but haven't we overcome those?
The other thing I hate is that when I hear Racism, I think of a white\black issue. This is disturbing because there are so many races in the U.S. that although may not have had as publicized struggles, are no less important.
Before I get flamed into oblivion, I just want to say, that I think racism is a problem that many people face. But from my side, I don't get to see it; therefore it is hard to understand the true size of the issue.
I think that this might be the whole problem..........
User Reviews
Submitted by tuesdaydelay (user info) at 2003-12-28 11:31:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
How come all the Racism posts came out in July? They're all popping up again today.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2003-07-28 21:27:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Affirmative action isn't a great solution because it attacks the effects of the problem not the ROOT of the problem. If you boat had a leak would it be better to constantly use buckets to slosh the water out, or would it be better to just fix the leak. Fix the leak, of course. The solution isn't to give underqualified minorities jobs or entrance into top notch schools. All that does is say a few things:
1)Minorites aren't able to compete so standards must be lowered for them
2)Makes people angry because of the fact that they either or forced to hire certian people who are less qualified, or pissed because they didn't get into the school of their choice when they had better credentials then a monority friend who did get in (Case in point, ME)
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someone that agrees with me! FINALLY.
i'd be awful PISSED if i worked my ass off to get into a school, and i didn't get in because a minority that may not have worked as hard as me gets the slot quite simply because of the color of their skin, while i get the SHAFT.
Submitted by Hairsphincter (user info) at 2003-07-28 21:15:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Cracker McHonky.
Submitted by Rediculo (user info) at 2003-07-28 21:09:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 to loki. +2 to Wingnut for posting what I am thinking.
Affirmative action isn't a great solution because it attacks the effects of the problem not the ROOT of the problem. If you boat had a leak would it be better to constantly use buckets to slosh the water out, or would it be better to just fix the leak. Fix the leak, of course. The solution isn't to give underqualified minorities jobs or entrance into top notch schools. All that does is say a few things:
1)Minorites aren't able to compete so standards must be lowered for them
2)Makes people angry because of the fact that they either or forced to hire certian people who are less qualified, or pissed because they didn't get into the school of their choice when they had better credentials then a monority friend who did get in (Case in point, ME)
(Side Note: Colleges instead of this affirmative action bullshit might want to try NOT jacking up the cost of tuition 2 times a semester every year. My University has a "Program to diversify campus" however they have raised tuition over 10% every semester I have been here. I'm not saying all minorities are poor I'm say there are VERY few people in general that can pay 30k a year for their children to go to college. Especially if there is more than one kid of college age.)
(I was going to write more but some STINKY asshole just came in, but you get where I am going)
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2003-07-28 16:40:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Arsenal -My problems with affirmative action have nothing to do with qualified blacks getting that shot that they have been denied. My problem with it is that it puts people into positions where they are doomed to fail. Say you are an improvised, inner city, but smart black kid who wants to go to college. I don't know how good of a school Michigan is, but for the sake of argument we'll say it's a really good school. How are you supposed to compete with the kids who went to good schools and had every advantage at home? You can't. All you can do it try your damdest. What happens when that's not good enough? You flunk out proving all the moronic racial stereotypes true and now you have cost two people the chance at a good education, the one who flunked out and the one who didn't get in.
That is why I think that affirmative action makes even less sense for a university than it does in the workplace. It's cruel to set someone up for failure. You have to instead give them the tools to succeed. Now if they let them in and assigned them tutors to make up for the gaps in their education, that would be a different matter. I don't know if that's what is happening or not, but my experience at a large school is that sink or swim treatment.
You have to look at the root of the problem. Why are there not enough qualified black candidates applying to school there? Is it that black people are not as smart as whites? Riiigggt sure, OR is it more likely that they didn't get the background they needed to compete starting from kindergarten on? You have to get the kids when they are little, find out why they are not keeping up with the other kids, and work to resolve the issues there so that by the time they are 18, they can get in on their own merits. You could also do what they do here, dumb down the curriculum so that none of the kids are getting an education, that sure as shit levels the playing field.
Submitted by wing_nut74 (user info) at 2003-07-28 16:30:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Arsenal,
But that is assuming that all of the minority students there are there due to affirmative action.
My thought is that that if that option wasn't there, is it a stretch to think that the students that have the drive to get there would have gotten there on their own?
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2003-07-28 16:24:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It definitely exists. I get to hear it from time to time because the assumption is that since I'm white I'm a friendly. Things like, "I had to start hiring the mex'cans because the niggers don't want to work". That was over Easter, the milk of Christian kindness award goes to Uncle Bob. As long as there are people like that in the world, you have to have something like affirmative action. For every door that opens due to race, mostly likely there were 10 that shut for the same reason.
Since when were YOU and I on the same side on anything anyway? WTF?
Submitted by Arsenal (user info) at 2003-07-28 16:20:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay Loki, if affirmative action is so wrong, then come up with a better way to solve the problem? You can't, it is not a perfect system, but it is much better than acting like blacks and whites are already totally equal. Now I don't necessarily beleive in affirmative action in places where the most qualified should hold that position, such as a doctor or something like that. But as far as universitys go, why not? The african americans getting to these upper level institutions such as U of M ARE smart people and most of them do have the qualities that will allow them to succeed. The white kids who don't get in (ME) will just have to work harder at whatever other school they go to. Basically by shooting down affirmative action you are saying "Shit, I don't want to have to work harder, make them do it." Life is not fair, get used to it.
Submitted by wing_nut74 (user info) at 2003-07-28 15:58:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Loki,
That is my point in a way, or the question I have.
I don't encounter racism, but I am sure it has to exist to an extent.
Is it being used as a crutch of sorts?
Given there was inequalities, when is it time both sides are not judged on the deeds of their forefathers, and on the deeds of what they have done since?
I understand the economics, but that isn't racial. It may fall along racial lines to an extent, but not totally.
Do all the programs and things end up hurting them in the long run?
You are right it is a monster of a topic, I am not looking to solve, just get other insight on.
Thanks all
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2003-07-28 15:20:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It's a complicated issue that there is no way we of uber even though we are all clearly smarter than everyone else in the world, can solve. I know more than I want to about the school system here due to the whole Sam's mom being a teacher and all. From what she tells me we are up against serious cultural issues that have to be resolved by the black community. Essentially, they just don't know what it takes to make it. They don't work with their kids at home and the attitude she encounters is, "he's here all day, why don't you educate him. I don't have time for this shit at home." In their defense, people learn parenting from their own parents so how do you break that cycle.
Plus the whole poverty issue has to be a factor. You try working two full time minimum wage jobs and see how much time you want to spend reading to your kids.
So what do you try, bussing? They did that here, huge disaster unless you count the brain drain from the public schools into private schools a success. Now we have gifted kids in magnet schools in the ghetto and all black schools in rich, white areas. Great, now all the kids in the city have to ride the bus for hours each day and they are supposed to stay awake long enough to do what on a standardized test?
Affirmative Actions? Bitch please, it looks great on paper, but then so does trickle down economics. In reality, what you have are pissed off black people who think that the world owes them, pissed off white people because they didn't get the job they know they were qualified for, pissed off ME because I know for a damn fact that the auditor who showed up here was a check the box and doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground, and pissed off qualified black people because they get sick of people like ME thinking that they checked the box and don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
I can spew facts and figures about how poverty among blacks in this country has gotten worse and not better since the advent of social programs, but this is longer than your post.
Submitted by Berz (user info) at 2003-07-28 14:20:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by virgil (user info) at 2003-07-28 13:42:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think racism is still an issue, but it is not in the same way- I think it is of a more insidious nature now. Whereas before it was burning crosses on yards, I think now it's just the little nagging thoughts in the minds of many people that judges people a tiny bit because of their race, at least initially- almost unconsciously. And I think that this is not at all specific to caucasians, in fact I think this form of racism occurs in almost every race or ethnic group.
Submitted by Cymensen (user info) at 2003-07-28 13:22:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
true
Submitted by Arsenal (user info) at 2003-07-28 12:53:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree in a sense. What these civil leaders are trying to do though is catch up the minorities, mainly the black minority, to the whites. When you look at positions of power and staus more often than not it is a white person in those positions. Face it, white people have had at least 200 years of education that blacks were not allowed. But you say that they have every oppurtunity that we have now. This is true, but almost futile. I was playing a game with my friends the other day, and one of them was a girl who's parents basically abandoned her and her sister at 16. It was obvious that what we learned from our parents in our childhood and how they brought us up had a great effect on how much we knew. Many African American parents these days had to deal with segregated schools, and even if they were born after this time period they had to deal with the fact that their parents had to deal with those conditions and their grandparents with slavery. Therefore they were not brought up in a home that is as "intellectual" as most white homes.
This is why I now agree with affirmative action. And realize that I am a white guy who probably could have made it into his college of choice (U of M by the way) if I had been a minority.
Submitted by PuffInqAllDay (user info) at 2003-07-28 12:39:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Racism is being blown to far out of proportion. When I graduated 30% of my grad class was WHITE. The rest of the people were Sikh and Mandarin. What bugs me, is with immigration, white people are becomming quickly the minority, and still we have people of other ethnic backgrounds screaming for equal treatment.
I'm more inclined to show prejudice towards heavy drug users, alcoholics, women beaters, rapists, those that are lazy, try to cheat the welfare system, are too busy bitching about the way things are instead of going to highschool, graduating, and finding any job.
Submitted by Nosferatu (user info) at 2003-07-28 12:37:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
agree