The Bible, Stars, and Some Other Stuff (387 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 0.66 on 23 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by paperboy: world famous astrophysicist (View user info) at 2007-07-12 22:15:50 EDT
User Reviews
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-07-13 18:42:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaioken (user info) at 2007-07-13 15:57:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2007-07-13 15:07:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
May I offer a small piece of advice?
When you're calling yourself a world-famous astrophysicist, the LAST person you want to be disagreeing with is Coyote.
Ever.
That's all.
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It is suppose to be tongue in cheek. One of my previous posts someone suggested the title and I ran with it.
While I do not work as an astrophysicist I have studied astronomy extensively (it is my passion). I own a couple of not so cheap scopes (one of em cost more than my last car), attend star parties, subscribe to atronomy and sky & telescope magazine, stargaze regularly, and read anything and everything about the latest theories and discoveries of the universe. Now, that doesnt make me an expert but it at least shows I have a great deal of experience and hopefully a little understanding of the field.
If Coyote would like to point out where I am wrong I will gladly listen and I extend that to anyone here. I will be the first to admit I make mistakes.
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2007-07-13 15:07:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
May I offer a small piece of advice?
When you're calling yourself a world-famous astrophysicist, the LAST person you want to be disagreeing with is Coyote.
Ever.
That's all.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-07-13 15:05:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You are pretty much on the right track but a lot of this is incorrect. I don't feel like getting into it but you might want to check out some Sam Harris sometime.
Submitted by Axolotl (user info) at 2007-07-13 14:46:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Ripoff of Zeitgeist.
While it's important for the questions to be asked, I hope you know that a lot of the comparisons from Jesus and other mythical figures are flawed, exaggerated, or made up. Pause on the part where he lists all the people akin to Jesus...Mohammed? Dionysius? Look up their stories, and you'll see where the movie is wrong.
Submitted by SunnyG (user info) at 2007-07-13 13:44:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Christianity = -2
Submitted by kaioken (user info) at 2007-07-13 12:31:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-13 11:13:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The astronomy is still all wrong. The Sun is never under Crux as seen from the northern hemisphere. A line drawn from Orion's belt through Sirius to the horizon points to any place to want it to, all you have to do is pick the time you're looking, and a latitude. It'll be different for observers at different places. And lastly, the Sun doesn't rise anywhere close to the constellation Virgo in December (and it didn't 2500 years ago, either).
If you're going to argue that Christ was fictional, why bother associating real astronomical events/alignments with his birth? Put another way, if you're going to say that all these mythological biographical details are reflected in the positions of the stars and planets, then you should at least try to get the astronomy right. There's been a lot of scholarly ink shed over the reality of the star of bethlehem, and the conclusion most people agree on is that it's a metaphor, and trying to look for associations in the real night sky, at 4 BC or any time in general, is going to be fruitless.
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Fire up one of the two programs I suggested and check it out yourself.
Orion's belt...the Three Kings and Siruis DO line up to point to the EXACT spot on the horizon where the Sun will rise on DEC 25 in the northern hemishpere...it happens at about 2am (if I am remembering correctly) this year on X-mas.
The Sun does indeed rise directly BELOW Virgo on the 25th contrary to your claim. I did exaggerate and say in her lap but the point is still rather valid.
You are not correct about Crux being invisible to the northern hemi either. If you live in the northern hemisphere, you must be south of latitude 30 degrees (any uber users in florida want to clear this up for him?) to begin observing Crux but the oldest tales of crucifiction and ressurection originate in the SOUTHERN hemi. anyhow.
Go ahead and install either program I included...see for yourself. I provided a perfect way to test these obeservations and have seen it myself.
You also keep going back to the Jesus in April bit but I am not sure exactly what your point is. I have already stated you may very well be correct (IF he lived and died). That has little if any bearing on what I have posted here. The stories such as Christ's crucifiction, resurrection, and the virgin birth on Dec. 25th were taken from other cultures.
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-13 11:13:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
OK, let's rephrase it then, at least the historical part: all the written material from the gospels (Mark? Luke? don't remember, can't be bothered to look it up) referring to the birth of Jesus sets a scene that is umistakably spring. Whether it's true or not, the story is set in April or May-ish.
The astronomy is still all wrong. The Sun is never under Crux as seen from the northern hemisphere. A line drawn from Orion's belt through Sirius to the horizon points to any place to want it to, all you have to do is pick the time you're looking, and a latitude. It'll be different for observers at different places. And lastly, the Sun doesn't rise anywhere close to the constellation Virgo in December (and it didn't 2500 years ago, either).
If you're going to argue that Christ was fictional, why bother associating real astronomical events/alignments with his birth? Put another way, if you're going to say that all these mythological biographical details are reflected in the positions of the stars and planets, then you should at least try to get the astronomy right. There's been a lot of scholarly ink shed over the reality of the star of bethlehem, and the conclusion most people agree on is that it's a metaphor, and trying to look for associations in the real night sky, at 4 BC or any time in general, is going to be fruitless.
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2007-07-13 09:26:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by kaioken (user info) at 2007-07-13 08:48:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by particle_man58 (user info) at 2007-07-13 01:48:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
....I thought he was born on december 25th, and thats why we have Christmas... didn't he die in april?
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It all depends on if you are talking to a historian or a Christian "scientist". Yes, Christians celebrate the birth of Christ on Dec 25 and Good Friday supposedly marks the crucifiction.
The Bible doesnt date either event and no writings from historians of that time contain a single reference to Jesus.
The point is this story was told by hundreds of cultures thousands of years BEFORE Jesus's birth or death. It doesnt matter when or even IF he lived. Now, I dont claim Jesus didnt exist nor would I be suprised if he did but the proof for his existance is rather non-existant.
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-07-13 06:06:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have Stellarium. It is cool.
Submitted by RabiedRooster (user info) at 2007-07-13 05:46:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Religion can suck my dick
Submitted by particle_man58 (user info) at 2007-07-13 01:48:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:23:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hey "paperboy" if that is your real name...Christ was born in April, foo.
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....I thought he was born on december 25th, and thats why we have Christmas... didn't he die in april? Besides what does it matter, the story of how things happen had existed for thousands of years before Jesus was ever alleged to have been born.
The bible is just a combination of all the other different religions.
Submitted by kaioken (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:42:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
even sure Jesus even
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even, even, even
okay, going to bed now.
Submitted by kaioken (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:37:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:18:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:09:17 EDT (#)
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-13 12:55:45 EST (#)
Chock full of astronomical misinformation.
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Ooooh history fight?
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Nah, I don't care about history, so I'll leave it to others to point out that Christ was born in April, not December.
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And what would that have to do with astronomy? I'm not even sure Jesus even existed. No historians that lived during his time ever wrote about him.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:26:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I learned some of this in a class called, "Stars, Time, and Primitive Man." Good class. Shame I skipped it most of the time due to being hungover.
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:23:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hey "paperboy" if that is your real name...Christ was born in April, foo.
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:18:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:09:17 EDT (#)
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-13 12:55:45 EST (#)
Chock full of astronomical misinformation.
--------
Ooooh history fight?
-=-=-=-=-
Nah, I don't care about history, so I'll leave it to others to point out that Christ was born in April, not December.
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2007-07-12 23:09:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-13 12:55:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Chock full of astronomical misinformation.
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Ooooh history fight?
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-12 22:55:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Chock full of astronomical misinformation.
Submitted by kaioken (user info) at 2007-07-12 22:27:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
haha, thanks for reminding me darko.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-07-12 22:22:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I liked the post though, even though I knew all of this.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2007-07-12 22:21:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Good post, but -2s fo life! because you failed to
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2006-05-31 23:14:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Keep it up and remember to stay in character!