Wanna be pissed about something? For America! and ETS- I'm with you! (1118 hits)
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Submitted by Siren© (View user info) at 2007-07-16 19:57:32 EDT
I advise you, for the well- being of of your future, that you at least read this through and give it serious thought. For your children, and their children... enough with the cheese.
Skip to the asterisks (****) if you don't want the details.
What would you say if I told you that there is no law stating that it is mandatory we must pay our income taxes?
What would you say if I told you that the Federal Reserve prints money for our government, making the dollar less valuable?
Did you know that the government has the Federal Reserve print money to bail out large companies, also making the dollar less valuable?
Some of you may know this already. I really hope you do, anyway. The frightening part is that it is all 100 % certifiably true. Nobody is denying it. Not the president, not the IRS, not congress... and they don't even care that we know. They know that we will just do what we're told as long as we aren't starving to death. We're being screwed, but the metaphorical dick isn't big enough that we're complaining about it. And, we are all too scared to mess with the system because, frankly, they can get rid of us if they want to.
Americans today, on average, spend 40% of their salaries on taxes. That's income tax, sales tax, housing tax, etc. What a difference it would make if we didn't have to pay our income taxes! Well, surprise! Your wish has been granted. It is perfectly legal to not file and pay taxes. There has never been a law stating that Americans must pay any sort of federal income tax. In fact, it's unconstitutional. John Adams wrote, "No man may be taxed against his will..." The tax system set by our forefathers was to be VOLUNTARY. But, that all changed when Woodrow Wilson came into office. He implemented the income tax. There was never EVER a law written, but he just sort of invented it and said we had to do it. Wilson also threw the word "democracy" around, which hadn't been a word to describe our government before that. That's a different story, and you should read the article, " Democracy or Republic, which is it?" by Benedict D. LaRosa, for more on that subject. It's truly enlightening.
Anywho, the IRS specifically targets the poor, those who cannot afford lawyers, to perform tax audits on. They raid the weak and unexpecting ON PURPOSE. This is not a crazy left wing conspirator's theory... this is documented FACT. Documented by the IRS itself. It is used as a scare tactic for the country. They are basically bullying us into paying our taxes, so that they can maintain control. There is also no law stating that the confiscation and reposession of our property is allowed by tax collectors. They just do it, and nobody asks questions. Not all people are tricked by this, though. Those who combat the idea of being bullied into paying taxes are beaten down by our courts. (Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co.) In this case, the Supreme Court rules that the Constitution didn't stand for any NEW (after the constitution in which it's written) taxes implemented, which means income tax .
By now you may be saying, "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL...? THIS IS THE FUCKING U.S. OF A. JUST MAKE A FUCKING LAW THEN? I NEED A FUCKING GRANDE MOCHA WITH HALF CAFF AND CREAM!"
Funny you should say that. They won't make a law. That would mean that they'd have to admit they were wrong, endure multitudes of legal and moral issues, and risk a possible revolution from the American people.
This brings us to the the Federal Reserve. Our taxes go toward debt that the government has created by borrowing money from the Fed. Reserve. The Fed Reserve makes money... I should say PRINTS money (money backed by nothing) for congress, and the rest of our government to borrow for use towards its programs. This makes the U.S. dollar worth less and less, because that money is put into circulation. The dollar in 1913 was worth, well, a dollar. 1913? Yeah, before the Federal Reserve was created, by GUESS WHO! Woodrow Wilson. The dollar today is worth 4 cents. There is an enormous difference between the amount of gold we have and the amount of paper money we have which is supposed to represent that gold. Trillions of dollars. Ridiculous? YES.
Furthermore and in relation, I'm sure you all have figured out that our money is no longer backed by gold. Lending and creating money out of thin air is a huge problem in this country. There hasn't been an account on Fort Knox in years, and officials guarantee that gold has been stolen from it. The US dollar is becoming more and more worthless.
The government uses our income tax money to help the national debt. When Reagan was president, he created a committee to find out where all of the tax money goes. Can you guess? 100% of it goes to paying off the federal debt before any is used to pay for government programs/workers etc. So, I say abolish the god damned Federal Reserve. Stop paying for our government's mistakes. How do we do this? Abolish income tax as well. One example of us being raped is the Iraq war. This war has cost us over 500 billion dollars. That is only for Iraq. Not Afghanistan. The government PRINTS money to fulfill this cost. That 500 billions dollars is now in our circulation, and it has caused housing prices to rise. The worth of the homes is the same, but it takes a lot more dollars to make up that worth. This is inflation, people! Not so noticeable when milk prices rise from $2.89 to $4, but it sure makes a difference that most young adults cannot afford a home. This is how our government feeds off of us! It's ridiculous that such (supposedly) educated people who say in their campaigns how they want to better America, are only parasites. Disgusting.
"How would politicians be paid if there was no income tax?"
Good question. They did it before Wilson was elected, and they can do it again. As I wrote before, our income taxes are merely putting a dent in the debt our government has created. If income taxes stopped, the government will do what it is supposed to do... work for US. Work for our money, instead of bullying it out of us then using it for personal gain. Our leaders would then be paid by all the other taxes we pay. Sales tax, automobile tax, etc. Have you ever stayed at a hotel whose rate per night was $139 and you ended up paying $185? In Baltimore, where I worked in hotels, there was an occupancy tax of 12.5 % !
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One candidate who says he wants to better America in 2008 is Ron Paul. Congressman Paul realizes that our government is not following the constitution and most of moral standards, and is bleeding us dry for their own agendas and gain. He's on the inside and realizes that. He admits that. He wants to change that. Ron Paul is what Republicanism is supposed to mean. Not what Bush and his band of conservative freaks have contorted it into. I am not pointing the blame of the problems I've described above totally on the Bush administration. The corruption began long before he was a twinkle in his daddy's eye. However, his entire cabinet seems to be taking advantage of the path that past presidents have laid out for them. Unfortunately, at this point Ron Paul may be our last hope.
You may think he's a nut job with an unrealistic dream, but he's the only candidate even merely suggesting a fix for the dilapidated state our government is in. He is the only one who is abiding by the official rules! If that's crazy, then count me in. And even if he doesn't do everything he promises (what official actually does that anyway) maybe he can be an influence on future generations of politicians.
To learn more, I urge you to read "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin. And since the book is over 600 pages, you should really watch a documentary produced by Aaron Russo, called "America: From Freedom to Fascism."
I beg you... question authority, don't take anything for granted, and don't take anything at face value.
Amen.
User Reviews
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-18 19:57:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2007-07-18 18:50:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:13:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
40% of the pile I make still leaves me with a pretty big pile.
And hopefully, that 40% in taxes can help pay for YOUR health care, your child care, your roads, your schools, your grandparents, etc. don't mind helping everyone else out a bit, at all.
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If you read the post, you'll know that all of that money goes toward debt, and not government programs. Housing tax, property tax, sales tax, auto tax, etc. goes toward that stuff, but not income tax. I am only against income tax. We worked fine without it before 1913. Even then, it wasn't meant to be a long term thing. It was to pay for war debt, just as it was meant to be right after the civil war. Besides, there is still a lot of debate on whether the 16th amendment was officially ratified. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, I promise.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-18 19:53:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo, the fact that you say you have a better grasp on the law frightens me. There is documentation supporting both sides. Just what if you were wrong? Not that you are, but what if you discovered you were? Don't you want to know if you're being lied to? Seriously, you should read Ishmael. I don't believe that ignorance is bliss.
And DCWoody, fuck off. I missed your comment, and now I don't want to read it. Just because I'm not paying special attention to you, and didn't catch your comment out of the 50 some that have been made doesn't make me a fuckwit. You pansy bitch. Why don't you whine about it when you're having pillow talk with your boyfriend later.
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2007-07-18 18:50:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:13:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
40% of the pile I make still leaves me with a pretty big pile.
And hopefully, that 40% in taxes can help pay for YOUR health care, your child care, your roads, your schools, your grandparents, etc. don't mind helping everyone else out a bit, at all.
Submitted by Scott_James (user info) at 2007-07-18 18:38:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I enjoyed reading this and the responses it sparked.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-07-18 12:22:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-18 01:20:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:56:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
did either of you two fuckwits even understand my previous review?
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I didn't read it. Nor will I now. You fuckwit.
very fucking sensible of you
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2007-07-18 10:05:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:59:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The point is, there are precedent laws that contradict the whole concept of the 16th Amendment, thus nullifying it entirely.
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Now, it's been a little while since I took government, but I seem to recall that Amendments to the Constitution can nullify laws, not vice versa.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-07-18 08:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
american histrionic
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-18 07:44:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-18 01:35:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo,
Based on what I've read recently (which is more than a single biased websites) I've drawn a conclusion. I drew this conclusion after questioning my government by doing research. This doesn't mean that I think I have the definitive answer. My post is making a point. On uber, to make a point, you have to be brazen. But, I, in real life would LOVE to take comfort in the fact that the government isn't fucking me over. I just have seen too much evidence to the contrary, so I decided to post about it and make people see the possibility of a Soylent Green side of things.
You should read Ishmael if you haven't already.
The end.
I can see that too many uber folk don't care enough to try to live the best they can. I'm sorry that some of you are "settling" because it's just easier to avoid confrontation. It's not only taxes. It's the entire decaying of our country. Just because "other countries" as someone said below, are corrupt too doesn't mean we should follow suit. We ran from England for that reason. And look at us, just as mangled. This is the product of greed. I refuse to buy into that being "just how it is." It makes me happier with my head up here in the clouds, hoping for a life I can only dream of.
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I am not saying the govt isn't fucking you over. You should alway question the govt and try and get the changes you want made. However clining to an immature idea about income taxes being illegal isn't the way to do that. Comparing "soylent green" to income taes isn't the way to do that.
How the fuck am I settling when I have a better grasp of laws than you? How is posting stupid rants about income taxes are illegal not settling? If you really ebelieve this then don't pay, that would be not settling, or better yet get a law degree and go to court over this. But that is too much work and you would rather "settle" by posting this BS on Uber and pretend you are making a difference.
Tell me what is corrupt about income tax? It is wholehartedly supported by almost every single elected official in this country. They may quibble over amounts but they are pretty much unified in agreeing with income tax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg
Take a little look at that graph, as far as non-third world countries the personal income tax in the Us is pretty low. Pretty much the entire EU and Canada has us beat. Are all those countries corrupt?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-18 07:33:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-07-18 04:03:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I didn't see that argument get blown.
try again.
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Lets pretend you define paying income taxes as involuntary servitude because you personally don't agree with them, even though the govt you have a say in legally passed them.
Now how is that different then defining prison for breaking drug laws as involuntary servitude because you personally don't agree with them, even though the govt you have a say in legally passed them?
With that loose interpretation of "involuntary servitude" the govt has no right to prevent you or force you to do anything.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-07-18 04:03:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
IM eating gummy bears.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-07-18 04:03:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 18:05:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:59:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The tax argument is a silly one. There is a "law", if you want to call it that, that requires you to pay income taxes, but there is no law that doesn't contradict the rest of the constitution.
I believe the income tax laws to be unconstitutional because the 16th Amendment directly violates the 13th Amendment against involuntary servitude, which is what income taxes essentially represent to the taxpayer who chooses not to pay them. This is perhaps why the IRS makes such a big deal about the income tax being "voluntary" in their internal literature.
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That is an incredably limited view of that constitution. And unfortunately for you the supreme court (or any court for that matter) doesn't see it that way. It isn't involuntary servitude. Your vote gives you a voice in the govt.
Your argument is akin to saying that going to jail for drugs in involuntary servitude if you don't agree with the drug laws. Or that the draft is involuntary servitude if you don't agree witht he war. It doesn't work that way.
We could quibble all day about this but the fact is that the law, the courts and pretty mush all lawyers disagree with you. I think I am going to agree with them and the tiny bit of common sense it took to blow your "involuntary servitude" argument.
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I didn't see that argument get blown.
try again.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-18 01:35:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo,
Based on what I've read recently (which is more than a single biased websites) I've drawn a conclusion. I drew this conclusion after questioning my government by doing research. This doesn't mean that I think I have the definitive answer. My post is making a point. On uber, to make a point, you have to be brazen. But, I, in real life would LOVE to take comfort in the fact that the government isn't fucking me over. I just have seen too much evidence to the contrary, so I decided to post about it and make people see the possibility of a Soylent Green side of things.
You should read Ishmael if you haven't already.
The end.
I can see that too many uber folk don't care enough to try to live the best they can. I'm sorry that some of you are "settling" because it's just easier to avoid confrontation. It's not only taxes. It's the entire decaying of our country. Just because "other countries" as someone said below, are corrupt too doesn't mean we should follow suit. We ran from England for that reason. And look at us, just as mangled. This is the product of greed. I refuse to buy into that being "just how it is." It makes me happier with my head up here in the clouds, hoping for a life I can only dream of.
Christ, that sounds like a speech from the end of a Michael Bay film. What an asshole I am.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-18 01:20:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:56:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
did either of you two fuckwits even understand my previous review?
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I didn't read it. Nor will I now. You fuckwit.
Submitted by PokeyMen (user info) at 2007-07-17 18:16:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
simplistic bollocks.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 18:09:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:55:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That little link? Did you read this post? I referenced two other sources. And who says I'm not paying my taxes? Are you crazy? I don't wanna be locked up!
Once again, I'm saying question the IRS. Just because they have the power to bully doesn't mean they're right. Just because other sources say otherwise doesn't mean they're right. Nobody knows the real truth, and that's dangerous.
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Nothing wrong with questioning. There is a problem with going to extremely biased websites to learn the answers to your questions and ignorantly applying incomplete John Adams quotes to defend your line of "questioning" (which appears to be more of a already decided conclusion).
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 18:05:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:59:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The tax argument is a silly one. There is a "law", if you want to call it that, that requires you to pay income taxes, but there is no law that doesn't contradict the rest of the constitution.
I believe the income tax laws to be unconstitutional because the 16th Amendment directly violates the 13th Amendment against involuntary servitude, which is what income taxes essentially represent to the taxpayer who chooses not to pay them. This is perhaps why the IRS makes such a big deal about the income tax being "voluntary" in their internal literature.
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That is an incredably limited view of that constitution. And unfortunately for you the supreme court (or any court for that matter) doesn't see it that way. It isn't involuntary servitude. Your vote gives you a voice in the govt.
Your argument is akin to saying that going to jail for drugs in involuntary servitude if you don't agree with the drug laws. Or that the draft is involuntary servitude if you don't agree witht he war. It doesn't work that way.
We could quibble all day about this but the fact is that the law, the courts and pretty mush all lawyers disagree with you. I think I am going to agree with them and the tiny bit of common sense it took to blow your "involuntary servitude" argument.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:56:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
did either of you two fuckwits even understand my previous review?
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:37:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Taxes do keep the country going, to some degree. But, I'm talking about INCOME tax. Income tax goes toward our debt, NOT toward government programs. Did you pay attention at all? Also, there is no dent in the debt because the government parties like it's 1999. And please, question me. That's how things are figured out. I want you to challenge me; I want to learn as much as I can. But that doesn't mean I have to like what you say.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:21:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:04:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:53:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:14:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No one likes paying taxes, no one wants to pay taxes. But the simple fact of the matter is that TAXES are what keep this country running, TAXES are what pay for all the programs that make this country what it is.
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No they don't. Read my review below.
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Hold on, OHHHHHH YEAH I forgot I'm supposed to take what you say at face value and not question it ever. My bad. So wait a minute, if it ALL goes to the national debt, how is there no dent in it?
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Because we keep raking up more of it, dipshit.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:20:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:01:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm going to comment indirectly on BigMike's comment below...
First off, he is completely correct. Second off, he is unintentionally providing a fantastic example for just how well thought out the tax scheme is.
True, there are many more important things in life than income taxes. Family, friends, health, education, etc. are all infinitely more important to us as people than any of the policies surrounding those same things. For example, if someone has cancer, fixing the healthcare system won't get help that, but actual medical attention might. If a friend of mine goes to jail on a drug bust, the problems with the War on Drugs are not important, but finding a good lawyer is crucial.
The government's scam is so brilliant simply because individual people have too many problems to deal with to bother fighting the scam. Even if there are protests and outcries, the government can just wait it out and eventually the people will break before the government needs to change. As long as there is no immediate threat to us by the government, the problems the government causes all play second fiddle to the immediate problems we each individually face. Even when we don't have any real individual problems, the great corporate distraction offers us a neverending list of problems we need to address - our clothing, the size of our house, getting in shape, knowing who won the big game last night, and what Paris Hilton is doing now.
Even if the government is directly responsible for the conditions surrounding an individual's problem, the human mind sees it as an indirect problem to address later after the immediate threat is resolved. For example, if I am having an allergic reaction to something in the air, all I really care about is getting some medicine to make my nose stop running, so I go and pay $20 for a box of Claritin. The fact that government policies on atmospheric pollution or Midwest farming subsidies may have lead to higher allergen counts in the air or that the medicine I'm buying is so expensive because of drug company patents or retailer price-fixing... these things are no longer of concern to me. I get a runny nose and what, I'm going to write my Congressman to address price fixing at pharmacy retailers? No, I'm going to go buy medicine no matter what it costs.
Each of us has a personal threshold of time we want to spend fighting for the global good, and the government's built in tolerance for those individual fights is high enough that almost none of us will ever individually make a difference. We're constantly bombarded with images of Mother Teresa and Gandhi and "An Army of One" and told that one person can make a difference, so we start to believe that and we put the blame on ourselves and our fellow citizens for not being motivated enough to solve the world's problems. That is technically true, but the missing detail is that one would need to dedicate every minute of his or her waking life to a cause and even then, there is a good chance of failure. Cindy Sheehan. Michael Moore. Jerry Lewis. It's not to say they haven't made some kind of difference, but it's a hell of a long way from solving any of the problems they were facing.
Most of us just want to be left alone and be happy and successful at what we do. Dedicating every minute of our lives to fighting for a cause knowing that we will probably fail does not seem like the most fulfilling option for most people.
The ultimate irony though is that once enough people stop fighting for their own individual causes because the government is too powerful, that is the moment the people are truly no longer free. Following that will be a rapid decline in the global power of the country and ultimately the failure of the American experiment. We're seeing this happening before our eyes right now. If the will of the people cannot come out victorious against the tyranny of the Bush/Cheney administration, the illusion of democracy that has been created to keep us all in line will disappear and the whole thing will come crashing down.
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Pretty much. You can literally see people everywhere are starting to look at this machine and say "hey, look at all those holes!"
It's only a matter of time. Personally, I almost can't wait, not so I can say "I told you so," but because the only mechanisms for massive change in government have been massive calamities. The depression that is coming when the world realizes that the American emperors have no clothes and that their money is worth less than a fist full of Monopoly dollars will be unlike anything the world has ever seen. The fraud is so blatant now it is only by the sheer hubris of the American military machine and its protection of the world's oil supplies that it is allowed to continue unabated...for now.
Buuut, someone is always waiting for a king to fall, someone is always biding their time while the poison takes effect, and while America teeters and gasps her last dying breaths she will look up from the floor where she fell and see her killers tearing at her flesh and laughing their way to the bank.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2007-07-17 17:04:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:53:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:14:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No one likes paying taxes, no one wants to pay taxes. But the simple fact of the matter is that TAXES are what keep this country running, TAXES are what pay for all the programs that make this country what it is.
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No they don't. Read my review below.
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Hold on, OHHHHHH YEAH I forgot I'm supposed to take what you say at face value and not question it ever. My bad. So wait a minute, if it ALL goes to the national debt, how is there no dent in it?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:59:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The tax argument is a silly one. There is a "law", if you want to call it that, that requires you to pay income taxes, but there is no law that doesn't contradict the rest of the constitution.
I believe the income tax laws to be unconstitutional because the 16th Amendment directly violates the 13th Amendment against involuntary servitude, which is what income taxes essentially represent to the taxpayer who chooses not to pay them. This is perhaps why the IRS makes such a big deal about the income tax being "voluntary" in their internal literature.
Such an argument was ruled to have no merit in the judicial system, but we're talking about the same courts that have ruled that eminent domain laws extend to the taking of private property for other private entities as constituting "public use", which is a blatant miscarriage of justice just like the tax laws.
The 5th Amendment argument against self-incrimination is also compelling and worth revisitation since even one of the ruling justices in the case law stated:
"If the form of return provided called for answers that the defendant was privileged from making he could have raised the objection in the return, but could not on that account refuse to make any return at all.... It would be an extreme if not an extravagant application of the Fifth Amendment to say that it authorized a man to refuse to state the amount of his income because it had been made in crime. But if the defendant desired to test that or any other point he should have tested it in the return so that it could be passed upon. He could not draw a conjurer's circle around the whole matter by his own declaration that to write any word upon the government blank would bring him into danger of the law."
Incidentally, only the last sentence of that opinion was reprinted on the IRS website explaining why the 5th could not be pleaded in nonpayment cases... This is misleading since the justice clearly insinuates that the 5th Amendment has to be pleaded ON the tax form itself, not after that fact, and not by simply refusing to file one at all.
The point is, there are precedent laws that contradict the whole concept of the 16th Amendment, thus nullifying it entirely.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:55:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That little link? Did you read this post? I referenced two other sources. And who says I'm not paying my taxes? Are you crazy? I don't wanna be locked up!
Once again, I'm saying question the IRS. Just because they have the power to bully doesn't mean they're right. Just because other sources say otherwise doesn't mean they're right. Nobody knows the real truth, and that's dangerous.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:53:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:14:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No one likes paying taxes, no one wants to pay taxes. But the simple fact of the matter is that TAXES are what keep this country running, TAXES are what pay for all the programs that make this country what it is.
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No they don't. Read my review below.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:51:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Thank you Siren.
The public would be shocked to know that not a single red cent of our IRS taxes go toward ANY of the social programs we have instated. Not one red cent.
All our taxes are going to...you guessed it...paying off the interest on the national debt.
Donald Rumsfeld came out on 9/10/2001 and told a press conference full of reporters that the Pentagon had "misplaced" $2.3 TRILLION, yes, TRILLION.
But you all know the rest.
We sit here and tolerate being lied to and stolen from. We tolerate unjust wars at our expense for the gain of the few select individuals. We watch and wave flags while our country is attacked by the very people who claim to be our saviors. We drink public water that is laced with industrial bi-products that have been proven to cause docility and low-intelligence.
We do this to ourselves and we do this to the generations to come...and we don't care. We're too stupid and lazy to question anything or anyone. We are afraid of what it will do to our tidy little life if we do.
We are so easily manipulated, I can literally see the signs "Down with Eastasia" being replaced while no one notices a thing. We are being run by mobsters...literally. And no one cares. We get exactly the government we deserve because no one wants to put the effort into fighting for one that's different.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 16:35:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:52:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Some of you keep saying I'm "uninformed" or what have you... but the fact of the matter is that most of America is uninformed. The only people who really know what's going on is the people who are running the show. Unfortunately, we have little to go on. What I've read (from many sources)leads me to believe that the whole taxation thing is very shady. If you want to just buy into whatever the IRS and our government is spoon-feeding you, then go ahead. I am choosing to not settle. I'm choosing to question the people who are taking my money from me.
Instead of just saying I don't know what I'm talking about, please just question everything you hear. All sides included. If we didn't question our authorities, the president's approval rating would be 100%.
It may all be in the details, but there are loop-holes that haven't been covered.
http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/Articles/DomicileBasisForTaxation.htm
---------------------------
What you have read from sources? Most sources I have found that quote actual laws say taxes are legal.
Getting your info spoonfed from the IRS is much better than getting it spoon fed to you from some quack websites because you won't end up in jail.
if the loopholes haven't been covered, go ahead and don't pay your taxes and see where you end up. the Browns, I am sure, have used everyloophole they could find and they have been proven wrong in a court of law (and in the court of public opinion).
The tax laws are pretty clear and playing little games with residece and domicile doesn't matter.
And the Adam's quote you are using has absolutely no bearing if that link you posted is your basis for not paying tax.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:59:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
JohnyX, it's all in the link in the comment below. Your code is deeper than that, sir.
I'm not saying all this based on nothing, folks! I hope that I can be proven wrong, but the evidence suggests othewise.
Einstein was asked once what he thought someone who wrote a book disproving one of his theories. He said he was happy to be that much closer to the truth. And that's what I'm looking for here. The truth. The more I read, the more I believe we're being screwed over. All I want is the honest truth. Whether my ideals are blown out of the water or not, I just wish it could be resolved without the lying and cover-ups from our government. And the god damned IRS.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:52:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Some of you keep saying I'm "uninformed" or what have you... but the fact of the matter is that most of America is uninformed. The only people who really know what's going on is the people who are running the show. Unfortunately, we have little to go on. What I've read (from many sources)leads me to believe that the whole taxation thing is very shady. If you want to just buy into whatever the IRS and our government is spoon-feeding you, then go ahead. I am choosing to not settle. I'm choosing to question the people who are taking my money from me.
Instead of just saying I don't know what I'm talking about, please just question everything you hear. All sides included. If we didn't question our authorities, the president's approval rating would be 100%.
It may all be in the details, but there are loop-holes that haven't been covered.
http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/Articles/DomicileBasisForTaxation.htm
You may read that to understand a little more about what I'm trying to say.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:15:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Since you're an idiot, I'll cut 'n' paste this again, please read it.
-----
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 05:02:49 PDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:33:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
"What would you say if I told you that there is no law stating that it is mandatory we must pay our income taxes?"
-=-=-=-=-
I'd say read Title 26 of the U.S. Code, specifically section 1 on tax imposed on individuals, and subtitle F, Chapter 68 on assessable penalties for underpayment or failure to pay. If you want to argue that those statutes (i.e., laws) are poorly or ambigiously phrased and hence don't require you to pay your taxes, I suppose you're entitled to that opinion, but it's not one that's likely to cut much ice with a qualified legal professional.
----------------------------
Just in case you are too lazy to look up title 26 here is a good explination of it.
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:14:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No one likes paying taxes, no one wants to pay taxes. But the simple fact of the matter is that TAXES are what keep this country running, TAXES are what pay for all the programs that make this country what it is. Do you think that the govt. (also popularly coined "they" by ETS and siren) is taking our money and saving it all in a big vault and then swimming in it like scrooge McDuck? Our taxes are high, theres no doubt about it, and I dont like paying 30% a year to fund the worlds end. I would love to see taxes LOWERED. But if no one payed their taxes the country would go broke, plain and simple. It sucks, but thats what you get for living in the so called "land of oppourtunity." I concede that ALOT of the funds aquired by the IRS are squandered away on useless endeavours (i.e. the war in Iraq) and thats what needs to be regulated. Not paying taxes? Thats just fucking silly.
Submitted by PioneerBill (user info) at 2007-07-17 15:02:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ugh ... didja ever hear about the 16th amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America?
" The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
I don't like paying taxes either, but it is the law of the land.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 14:55:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2007-07-17 14:36:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Who the fuck is Ron Paul?
Everyone seems to talk about him here, enlighten a Canuck, I cant be fucked to sift through any of ets's posts to find out..,
-------------------------
http://governmentdirt.com/how_does_ron_paul_stack_up_on_the_issues
There are all the major issues.
In a nutshell he is an idiot who gets his understanding of economy from nitwits like Henry CK Liu, and believes in a 20's style of isolationism for America. And wants to go back on the gold standard (which no other mmodern economy does).
In his defense his voting record does support what he says he believes about the constitution, and not letting the fed have so much power, unfortunately that attitude probably won't make him a good pres.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2007-07-17 14:36:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Who the fuck is Ron Paul?
Everyone seems to talk about him here, enlighten a Canuck, I cant be fucked to sift through any of ets's posts to find out..,
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-07-17 14:11:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 For actually trying to understand what;s going on. You need to dig deeper though, you are misinformed on a lot of points. Nobody backs their currency with anything tangible like gold anymore. That doesn't mean it isn't backed by anything though. Is it a problem? Yes and no. IT does become a problem when governments begin printing out of control to pay off debt, and inflation skyrockets at a rate that triggers economic collapse. (e.g. Germany - Weimar Republic).
I'm not American, so I'm not going to pretend to know for certain, however I'm pretty sure the whole income tax thing has been refuted. That's not to say that your bloated Federal Govn't shouldn't be trimmed off and income taxes reduced or eliminated, but this is not a simple issue and isn't going to be fixed over one, two or even three terms for any President, no matter how good his intentions.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-07-17 13:57:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
haha:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19810016/site/newsweek/
Submitted by Cyrus (user info) at 2007-07-17 13:42:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
-2 dumb/uninformed
+2 question authority
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2007-07-17 13:33:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
As a CPA, let me assure all of you that they CAN and WILL throw you in prison for not paying income taxes. Furthermore, you're logic that the Fed magically prints money is incorrect. The Fed is actually a check on the power of the US Treasury to do such a thing.
If by some long shot we did manage to stop both the income tax and shut down the Federal Reserve you better be fluent in Chinese, Japanese, and German, because we will then be their bitch.
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-17 13:31:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
"We further apprehend this Tax to be unconstitutional. By the great Charter no American shall be assessed but by the oath of Honest & Lawful men of the land. And by the same Charter no Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned or be dispossessed of his Freedom or Liberties, nor condemned but by Lawful Judgment of his Peers. And we have always understood it to be a grand & fundamental principal of the British Constitution that no Freeman should be subjected to any Tax to which he has not given his own consent in person or by proxy. And the maxims of the Law are to the same effect. That no Freeman can be separated from his property but by his own act or Fault. We take it clearly therefore to be inconsistent with the spirit of the Common Law & of the essential Fundamental principles of the British Constitution that we should be subjected to any Tax imposed by the British Parliament because we are not Represented in that assembly in any sense unless it be by a Fiction of Law."
-from the letter drafted by John Adams and approved by a committee of prominent citizens of Braintree, Massachusetts for publication in a Boston newspaper in response to the Stamp Act of 1765. In other words, "No taxation without representation", same as we all learned in 3rd grade. The quote has no relevance at all to the assessment of income tax under the U.S. Constitution, unless you live in D.C. and have no representation.
Adams had a lot of room in which to maneuver, since the British constitution was unwritten.
Submitted by Yozz (user info) at 2007-07-17 11:46:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"What would you say if I told you that there is no law stating that it is mandatory we must pay our income taxes? ... The frightening part is that it is all 100 % certifiably true. Nobody is denying it. Not the president, not the IRS, not congress... and they don't even care that we know."
Siren, please recognize that you are somewhere in the first or second stage within the Five Stages of Grief (i.e., denial and/or anger). With that in mind, let me assure you that it IS mandatory for you to pay income taxes. Just trust me on this one - I have a tremendous amount of experience with these issues. I could provide a deluge of information contrary to your assertions on this point - but I realize you are very fragile at the moment. Just trust me on this. Or go here: http://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/ch01s07.html
Willful failure to file a return or pay your taxes WILL get you 3 hots and a cot.
I know that this is going to push you towards depression (the 4th stage). Just concentrate on achieving acceptance. That way, you wont get raped in the shower 3 times a day for not paying your taxes.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 10:11:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
John Adams wrote, "No man may be taxed against his will..."
-----------------
Do you have a link with the whole quote? Or even a link about Adams (not a link about how taxes are illegal) that backs that up?
I see it all the time on anti tax sites, but they never have the whole quote or a reference to where it was written.
When he was writing against the stamp act he had a similiar quote about "No nation ought to be taxed against its own consent" and I am wondering if it was just paraphrased?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-07-17 10:04:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 08:02:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:33:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
"What would you say if I told you that there is no law stating that it is mandatory we must pay our income taxes?"
-=-=-=-=-
I'd say read Title 26 of the U.S. Code, specifically section 1 on tax imposed on individuals, and subtitle F, Chapter 68 on assessable penalties for underpayment or failure to pay. If you want to argue that those statutes (i.e., laws) are poorly or ambigiously phrased and hence don't require you to pay your taxes, I suppose you're entitled to that opinion, but it's not one that's likely to cut much ice with a qualified legal professional.
----------------------------
Just in case you are too lazy to look up title 26 here is a good explination of it.
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm
-------
i'm waiting for the reply on this.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 09:40:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Furthermore and in relation, I'm sure you all have figured out that our money is no longer backed by gold.
----------
Can you name any large economy that is?
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2007-07-17 09:23:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-07-17 08:56:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I come in peace," it said, adding after a long moment of further grinding, "take me to your Lizard."
..."It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I though you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-07-17 08:28:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-07-17 07:13:15 BST (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh forensic, you ignorant slut.
----------
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh Bob, you crack me up!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-07-17 08:02:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:33:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
"What would you say if I told you that there is no law stating that it is mandatory we must pay our income taxes?"
-=-=-=-=-
I'd say read Title 26 of the U.S. Code, specifically section 1 on tax imposed on individuals, and subtitle F, Chapter 68 on assessable penalties for underpayment or failure to pay. If you want to argue that those statutes (i.e., laws) are poorly or ambigiously phrased and hence don't require you to pay your taxes, I suppose you're entitled to that opinion, but it's not one that's likely to cut much ice with a qualified legal professional.
----------------------------
Just in case you are too lazy to look up title 26 here is a good explination of it.
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-07-17 02:13:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2007-07-16 23:21:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is why I become so enraged at non-Americans who pass judgement at my so-called apathy.
Here is my situation; I'm an only child with Baby Boomer parents. I know that when they become elderly and need care, Medicare, their retirement, Dad's pension, etc. will not be there for them. Therefore, the burden of their care will be solely on me.
This completely stresses me out because I don't know how I'm going to be able to take care of them as well as myself. What if one, or both, of them become ill? What happens when one, or both, needs 24 hour care?
I'm surviving, but I'm only a single woman.
I'm looking 20 years down the road and I don't know what I'm going to do (or be able to).
And this is what our government has done to our generation. We no longer have the luxury to get in there and shake things up because we too busy surviving and ensuring the survival of our loved ones.
We can only do what we can, small and inconsequential actions that are ignored and laughed off by our government.
They've set themselves up so that we can't apply the constitution to them.
For instance, we have the right and responsibility to dismantle our government and rebuild it when the old one becomes corrupt and ineffectual.
Can you do that? Can I do that? Could even a large group of us do that?
No.
---
Oh forensic, you ignorant slut.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2007-07-17 01:49:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"So apart from voyeuristic cynical observation - do you have any suggestions as to WHAT can be done to motivate the lazy fucks that our ignorant society has bred?"
Congratulations, you inspired me to make a new post: http://www.ubersite.com/m/110202
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2007-07-17 01:26:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The comments alone make this worth a read.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2007-07-17 00:20:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
Find that text, and tell me again that it is unconstitutional, you illiterate bint.
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2007-07-17 00:16:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"Is there any way to transcend this cycle of bullshit - or are people like us just going to continue to be aware of the problem, yap about it to a bunch of internet nerds and invariably wait for the disintegration of western civilization?"
What do you mean wait?
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2007-07-17 00:14:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
More boredom.
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2007-07-17 00:12:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"Most of us just want to be left alone and be happy and successful at what we do. Dedicating every minute of our lives to fighting for a cause knowing that we will probably fail does not seem like the most fulfilling option for most people."
Bart seems to understand completely, even though he went into a little more than I was willing to :)
I wasn't making light of this topic Siren. I have seen many things happen over the years and although I am really not an "old man" yet (at least not by my standards), I know that this will pass, change will come, and things will either get much better or very much worse.
Things cannot and will not stay the same after we have a changing of the guard. My guess is things will get a little worse before they get a lot better.
Back when the cold war was in full swing, I wrote a story about a child who grew up to be elected president. Everybody loved him and he won the office by an incredible landslide.
His first act once he was in office was to turn the whole of the United States into a Communist state. He did this because he and his family were planted into the U.S. by the russian regime back in the forties. His image was cultivated throughout his formative years and by the time he graduated high school he had already held local public office in his hometown. He was able to reach the pinnacle of office in this country and then take it down from the inside.
I guess the point here is that nobody knew. Not his nieghbors, not his teachers, not his very best of friends. Hell, even his wife didn't know.
There's alot we don't know. There's even more we can't dare to presume.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2007-07-16 23:21:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is why I become so enraged at non-Americans who pass judgement at my so-called apathy.
Here is my situation; I'm an only child with Baby Boomer parents. I know that when they become elderly and need care, Medicare, their retirement, Dad's pension, etc. will not be there for them. Therefore, the burden of their care will be solely on me.
This completely stresses me out because I don't know how I'm going to be able to take care of them as well as myself. What if one, or both, of them become ill? What happens when one, or both, needs 24 hour care?
I'm surviving, but I'm only a single woman.
I'm looking 20 years down the road and I don't know what I'm going to do (or be able to).
And this is what our government has done to our generation. We no longer have the luxury to get in there and shake things up because we too busy surviving and ensuring the survival of our loved ones.
We can only do what we can, small and inconsequential actions that are ignored and laughed off by our government.
They've set themselves up so that we can't apply the constitution to them.
For instance, we have the right and responsibility to dismantle our government and rebuild it when the old one becomes corrupt and ineffectual.
Can you do that? Can I do that? Could even a large group of us do that?
No.
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:33:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
"What would you say if I told you that there is no law stating that it is mandatory we must pay our income taxes?"
-=-=-=-=-
I'd say read Title 26 of the U.S. Code, specifically section 1 on tax imposed on individuals, and subtitle F, Chapter 68 on assessable penalties for underpayment or failure to pay. If you want to argue that those statutes (i.e., laws) are poorly or ambigiously phrased and hence don't require you to pay your taxes, I suppose you're entitled to that opinion, but it's not one that's likely to cut much ice with a qualified legal professional.
Furthermore, I'd say that BigMike is 100% correct in his reply.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:22:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Because I will tell you this - I am one LAZY fuck. The most I have really ever done to help this world is recycle - but that is really only because my fiancé makes me.
Oh sure I fancy myself a philosopher and all aware n' shit - but I know just as well as all the retards that eager wipe their ass on my posts that I'm not >really< accomplishing anything by blathering on about 'willful ignorance'.
So in the brainstorming department I think any solution needs to be:
a) incredibly well funded (anyone know Bill Gates http://www.ubersite.com/m/100546)
b) something so fucking painless it will make voting on American Idol look complicated.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:13:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:01:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm going to comment indirectly on BigMike's comment below...
First off, he is completely correct. Second off, he is unintentionally providing a fantastic example for just how well thought out the tax scheme is.
True, there are many more important things in life than income taxes. Family, friends, health, education, etc. are all infinitely more important to us as people than any of the policies surrounding those same things. For example, if someone has cancer, fixing the healthcare system won't get help that, but actual medical attention might. If a friend of mine goes to jail on a drug bust, the problems with the War on Drugs are not important, but finding a good lawyer is crucial.
The government's scam is so brilliant simply because individual people have too many problems to deal with to bother fighting the scam. Even if there are protests and outcries, the government can just wait it out and eventually the people will break before the government needs to change. As long as there is no immediate threat to us by the government, the problems the government causes all play second fiddle to the immediate problems we each individually face. Even when we don't have any real individual problems, the great corporate distraction offers us a neverending list of problems we need to address - our clothing, the size of our house, getting in shape, knowing who won the big game last night, and what Paris Hilton is doing now.
Even if the government is directly responsible for the conditions surrounding an individual's problem, the human mind sees it as an indirect problem to address later after the immediate threat is resolved. For example, if I am having an allergic reaction to something in the air, all I really care about is getting some medicine to make my nose stop running, so I go and pay $20 for a box of Claritin. The fact that government policies on atmospheric pollution or Midwest farming subsidies may have lead to higher allergen counts in the air or that the medicine I'm buying is so expensive because of drug company patents or retailer price-fixing... these things are no longer of concern to me. I get a runny nose and what, I'm going to write my Congressman to address price fixing at pharmacy retailers? No, I'm going to go buy medicine no matter what it costs.
Each of us has a personal threshold of time we want to spend fighting for the global good, and the government's built in tolerance for those individual fights is high enough that almost none of us will ever individually make a difference. We're constantly bombarded with images of Mother Teresa and Gandhi and "An Army of One" and told that one person can make a difference, so we start to believe that and we put the blame on ourselves and our fellow citizens for not being motivated enough to solve the world's problems. That is technically true, but the missing detail is that one would need to dedicate every minute of his or her waking life to a cause and even then, there is a good chance of failure. Cindy Sheehan. Michael Moore. Jerry Lewis. It's not to say they haven't made some kind of difference, but it's a hell of a long way from solving any of the problems they were facing.
Most of us just want to be left alone and be happy and successful at what we do. Dedicating every minute of our lives to fighting for a cause knowing that we will probably fail does not seem like the most fulfilling option for most people.
The ultimate irony though is that once enough people stop fighting for their own individual causes because the government is too powerful, that is the moment the people are truly no longer free. Following that will be a rapid decline in the global power of the country and ultimately the failure of the American experiment. We're seeing this happening before our eyes right now. If the will of the people cannot come out victorious against the tyranny of the Bush/Cheney administration, the illusion of democracy that has been created to keep us all in line will disappear and the whole thing will come crashing down.
---
So apart from voyeuristic cynical observation - do you have any suggestions as to WHAT can be done to motivate the lazy fucks that our ignorant society has bred?
How do you educate people who don't care to learn?
Is there any way to transcend this cycle of bullshit - or are people like us just going to continue to be aware of the problem, yap about it to a bunch of internet nerds and invariably wait for the disintegration of western civilization?
Perhaps we can squeeze out an emphatic "told ya so" right before Armageddon.
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:03:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Smartest thing I ever read on Uber below
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2007-07-16 22:01:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm going to comment indirectly on BigMike's comment below...
First off, he is completely correct. Second off, he is unintentionally providing a fantastic example for just how well thought out the tax scheme is.
True, there are many more important things in life than income taxes. Family, friends, health, education, etc. are all infinitely more important to us as people than any of the policies surrounding those same things. For example, if someone has cancer, fixing the healthcare system won't get help that, but actual medical attention might. If a friend of mine goes to jail on a drug bust, the problems with the War on Drugs are not important, but finding a good lawyer is crucial.
The government's scam is so brilliant simply because individual people have too many problems to deal with to bother fighting the scam. Even if there are protests and outcries, the government can just wait it out and eventually the people will break before the government needs to change. As long as there is no immediate threat to us by the government, the problems the government causes all play second fiddle to the immediate problems we each individually face. Even when we don't have any real individual problems, the great corporate distraction offers us a neverending list of problems we need to address - our clothing, the size of our house, getting in shape, knowing who won the big game last night, and what Paris Hilton is doing now.
Even if the government is directly responsible for the conditions surrounding an individual's problem, the human mind sees it as an indirect problem to address later after the immediate threat is resolved. For example, if I am having an allergic reaction to something in the air, all I really care about is getting some medicine to make my nose stop running, so I go and pay $20 for a box of Claritin. The fact that government policies on atmospheric pollution or Midwest farming subsidies may have lead to higher allergen counts in the air or that the medicine I'm buying is so expensive because of drug company patents or retailer price-fixing... these things are no longer of concern to me. I get a runny nose and what, I'm going to write my Congressman to address price fixing at pharmacy retailers? No, I'm going to go buy medicine no matter what it costs.
Each of us has a personal threshold of time we want to spend fighting for the global good, and the government's built in tolerance for those individual fights is high enough that almost none of us will ever individually make a difference. We're constantly bombarded with images of Mother Teresa and Gandhi and "An Army of One" and told that one person can make a difference, so we start to believe that and we put the blame on ourselves and our fellow citizens for not being motivated enough to solve the world's problems. That is technically true, but the missing detail is that one would need to dedicate every minute of his or her waking life to a cause and even then, there is a good chance of failure. Cindy Sheehan. Michael Moore. Jerry Lewis. It's not to say they haven't made some kind of difference, but it's a hell of a long way from solving any of the problems they were facing.
Most of us just want to be left alone and be happy and successful at what we do. Dedicating every minute of our lives to fighting for a cause knowing that we will probably fail does not seem like the most fulfilling option for most people.
The ultimate irony though is that once enough people stop fighting for their own individual causes because the government is too powerful, that is the moment the people are truly no longer free. Following that will be a rapid decline in the global power of the country and ultimately the failure of the American experiment. We're seeing this happening before our eyes right now. If the will of the people cannot come out victorious against the tyranny of the Bush/Cheney administration, the illusion of democracy that has been created to keep us all in line will disappear and the whole thing will come crashing down.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:40:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
why does everyone keep banging on about printingmore money, = money worth less?
printing more money also helps growth.
i hate big business as much as anyone, but even i know that the federal reserve helped bail out america when the internet bubble popped. although they did it by transfering the debt to houses...
and getting rid of the cia will most probably force it underground and make their actions harder to trace..
Submitted by Zebra (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:36:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
One point for your passion, but perhaps you've heard of the U.S. Constitution?
Check out the 16th Amendment.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:36:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, and the fish I'm frying is that the government is stealing our money in several ways unconstitutionally and using it for personal agendas and to fix their problems.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:32:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Shlongy, you didn't answer me. This leads me to believe you don't know how it works either.
Big Mike, I hope that in my senior years I can be as carefree as you are. Just kidding, you know I'd blow ya.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:29:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"But that's the way it is and will be until the Earth overheats due to global warming."
Nothing will ever change if that is the attitude people are so willing to embrace.
Self fulfilling prophecy right there. Shame, really.
Submitted by storm (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:24:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You should look into rehab.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:13:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
40% of the pile I make still leaves me with a pretty big pile.
And hopefully, that 40% in taxes can help pay for YOUR health care, your child care, your roads, your schools, your grandparents, etc. don't mind helping everyone else out a bit, at all.
Do I wish I wasn't taxed so much? Absolutely.
Are taxes ever going to go away? Nope.
Is our government a big pile of confusing, interfering, over-beauracratic bullshit. Uh huh.
But that's the way it is and will be until the Earth overheats due to global warming.
It ain't gonna change.
So preach about something that you CAN change.
Ron Paul can't change shit.
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2007-07-16 21:07:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
So what's the deal with going to jail for tax evasion?
If the dollar is worth 4 cents, then I'm only paying 12 cents a gallon for gas. WOO HOO!
Yes, go ahead and say it. Bigmike, you just don't give a shit.
I'll tell you what honey, I love ya but I got bigger fish to fry than to worry about why there is no federal income tax laws on the books or why my dollar is worth pocket change. If you think that there are no bigger fish to fry, then I suggest you come fishing in MY pond.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2007-07-16 20:56:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-07-16 19:59:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Way to understand absolutely nothing about the Federal Reserve.
-------------------------------------------------
If I understand nothing, Shlongy, please enlighten me.
Also, I realize this is just the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, in my efforts to spread the word, I'm going for brevity (especially on here where nobody has patience). I just wanted to touch on a few things and strike a nerve for those who didn't know. As many people as possible should know what their government is doing.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-07-16 20:46:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I never understood economics.
I hear it'll be fun, though, when China decides to quit investing in the US. I don't even know what that means.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-07-16 20:37:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is all fine and nice when talking to the choir - but the percentage of people that will ignore this post before even getting to the **** is staggering.
People don't give a shit. You tell people to question everything?
Here is the short answer: they won't.
Humanity is filled with lazy, apathetic, blissfully ignorant fucks. America has proven that at least HALF of them will get behind a complete buffoon of a commander-in-chief and have enabled arguably the most corrupt, self-serving, criminal administration for 8 long years.
So realistically, given the reality of the situation - what can be done to effectively correct this problem beyond voting for Ron Paul?
Telling people to 'question shit' won't work. Screaming at them to 'WAKE THE FUCK UP' won't work - so what?
Any ideas? Or are you actually convinced that Ron Paul will magically save the day?
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2007-07-16 20:20:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No Comment
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2007-07-16 20:09:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
That's the tip of the iceberg but congrats on finding out.
Submitted by zoobie2000 (user info) at 2007-07-16 20:08:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"That 500 billions dollars is now in our circulation, and it has caused housing prices to rise."
PLEASE give me your email address. I work for Mr Greenspan and he would love to hear your opinion on the price of eggs...
keep it up though, this is a worthwhile post nevertheless
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2007-07-16 20:02:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
are you serious? +1 for effort
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-07-16 19:59:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Way to understand absolutely nothing about the Federal Reserve.