You're Not a Revolutionary, You're a Dipshit (2571 hits)
Category: GeneralRating: 0.51 on 233 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by baron von munchausen (View user info) at 2007-10-13 12:31:40 EDT
Being a university student (OMG UR YOUNGER THAN ME -2!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!) I see more than too much gay, pseudo-political bullshit going on. But, I mean, seriously people, get the fucking pinkos off your t-shirts.
Of course the most obvious example is Che Guevara. Why do you need to advertise to everyone that sees you the fact that you love Che Guevara? It's such a lazy form of support, too; I mean, at least the dumb shits who memorize rhetoric and spew it out like human photocopiers have put in a bit of effort. On the other hand, by wearing a shirt, you're showing everyone that you're full of shit, that you care more about people KNOWING that you think Che is cool than Che himself. Speaking of which, what's so fucking great about Che anyways? I mean, Cuba was shit before his revolution, but his good buddy and right-hand man has been running a cute little fascist dictatorship for several decades. Nice job, you're a real hero. I think I'll put you on my chest.
Rarer, but much worse, is the appearance of Mao Zedong on t-shirts. I actually see this sometimes-it's really truly unbelievable. Oh, yeah, dude, communism, it's like, peace, and love, and brotherhood, and killing well over 5 million people in the name of political suppression! Totally! I want THIS fun guy on my torso all day. Mass executions in front of large crowds? FUCK YEAH! That's what I'm into. Hey man, if it's necessary for the security of power, it's like, cool, man! Otherwise the MAN will never get what we're saying! I mean, persecuting people for voicing political opinions that aren't yours? Fuck persecuting them, let's kill them! What's that? You already did? SCORE!
I mean, people get their panties in a knot about McCarthy (which they should) and then parade around with this mass murderer gazing inspiringly out from their tits. In conclusion, not only are these people full of shit, they either a) know nothing about the figure they're supporting, making them even MORE full of shit, or b) support fascism. And possibly mass murder. I mean, if the guy on your shirt was succeeded by men deemed to be much, much, milder than him, and they brought us the Tiananmen Square Massacre...really...you should be run over by a tank.
User Reviews
Submitted by Yams (user info) at 2007-10-20 05:45:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT faggot alert FAGGOT ALERT 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Just kidding, you're right.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-20 01:31:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, good sir, since you have proclaimed yourself the expert, please enlighten everyone to the facts which cause you to make such a comment.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-19 23:07:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
'In what fucking capitalist country are lots of people starving to death? Yes, it's hard for the lowest rungs, like it is in any country, but despite that income disparity, the lowest rung is still way better off under capitalism than the corresponding rung in a socialist country. '
sounds to me like you don't know an awful lot about people living in the lowest rung of a capitalist society, or a socialist one for that matter..
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-18 18:25:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wish I could be different like them. That's why I'm angry. I'm just jealous of how cool they are.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-10-18 18:20:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
but they're all artistic and different
just like everyone else
don't you get it
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-18 03:35:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Scott you and I are better than everyone else. Let's be sarcastic and pretentious about it. They deserve it.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-17 21:58:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What he said.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-17 21:33:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-10-17 20:12:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
but really, i like che. even, in some regard, mao. but less than che.
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Che was a political hack who failed at every military and political position where he was given any power, exept for maybe being in charge of La Cabana Fortress, if you consider pre-determining guilt and having anyone you don't like or approve of killed as a "success".
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-10-17 20:55:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
not any of that stuff, but what he did to get put in power. he was a brilliant strategerist. hitler was too. both can get fucked in the long run.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-17 20:21:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Did you really say you liked Mao to some degree? I mean...mass murder...like, millions upon millions of people...suppression of free speech and all possible political opponents...that's like saying you like Hitler. He was just more obvious and direct about his mass murder. I would put Mao on the same level.
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-10-17 20:12:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by SunnyG (user info) at 2007-10-16 22:57:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
nice try with the maddox impression
i hate when people say that.
i like che. that picture of him was voted the most famous picture of all time, and all my friends are famous. i am too, by association, and when i wear pictures of che.
but really, i like che. even, in some regard, mao. but less than che.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-17 11:21:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by netimportant (user info) at 2007-10-16 23:50:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wear shirts with Bart Cilfone's face on them. Panties, too.
===============
closest he's been to a pussy since birth.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-17 11:02:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fuck, Congress could pass a law allowing them to round up all the disabled people, and if you made a post about it they'd say 'Who cares? It's just ink on paper stupid!"
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2007-10-17 10:30:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i appreciate the irony of those shirts.
Unless they're not going for irony, in which case I don't care because it's a smegging teeshirt.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-17 02:08:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A Lou Dobbs is someone who communicates by dogmatically refering to one mostly irrelavent subject or catchline in order to stop the rational analysis of anything, such as SunnyG, or Lou Dobbs.
Submitted by netimportant (user info) at 2007-10-16 23:50:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wear shirts with Bart Cilfone's face on them. Panties, too.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-16 23:36:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What's a Lou Dobbs?
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-16 23:32:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I actually agree with Lou Dobbs on this one.
Submitted by SunnyG (user info) at 2007-10-16 22:57:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
nice try with the maddox impression
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-16 22:39:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.ubersite.com/m/112460#2554410
There is a personal context you're missing. Scott and I are good friends in real life, and I'm fucking around with him.
Submitted by Amontillado (user info) at 2007-10-16 22:11:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Does anyone remember that story someone wrote about a city in CA running out of water and everyone going crazy? I can't find it.
Submitted by ripple (user info) at 2007-10-16 08:04:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i like you.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-15 18:51:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wouldn't say I'm getting bent out of shape. It's annoying and frustrating. And those people are idiots. And it makes me angry. Okay, I am getting bent out of shape.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2007-10-15 16:52:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Get over it chickadee. I daresay you're the dipshit for getting so bent out of shape over something so inconsequential.
Submitted by TechnoRatty (user info) at 2007-10-15 16:33:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Most heated's Number 1, well done!!
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-15 15:24:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
JIANG QING FTW
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-10-15 15:18:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
fuck mao, i wear a gang of four t-shirt, and not the band
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-15 13:02:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-15 12:47:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-10-15 08:01:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have a fine collection of tie-dyes and stoner/tripper shirts that I got at Grateful Dead/Ratdog/JGB/JGAB/Other Ones shows. Doesn't mean I listen to hippie music exclusively and think you should too.
Stop taking what other people wear so seriously. You'll just end up spending your life angry.
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I don't think it's taking what other people wear too seriously. It's getting annoyed at people for being hugely full of shit because they don't even know what they're supporting, and if they did, they wouldn't support it-all for the sake of impressing others for appearance.
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they might just like berets.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2007-10-15 12:49:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ok
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-15 12:47:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-10-15 08:01:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have a fine collection of tie-dyes and stoner/tripper shirts that I got at Grateful Dead/Ratdog/JGB/JGAB/Other Ones shows. Doesn't mean I listen to hippie music exclusively and think you should too.
Stop taking what other people wear so seriously. You'll just end up spending your life angry.
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I don't think it's taking what other people wear too seriously. It's getting annoyed at people for being hugely full of shit because they don't even know what they're supporting, and if they did, they wouldn't support it-all for the sake of impressing others for appearance.
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2007-10-15 10:16:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
maddox. years ago. but still a relevant point with which i agree.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2007-10-15 08:41:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
1400+ hits are you fucking kidding me? slow week end or what?
anyhow.
I agree that Lohan wearing a Motorhead tee is wrong and she should take it, and everything else, off.
obligatory movie quote to follow
"who would win in a fight Lemmy or God?"
"um..God?"
"AAANNNT! trick question, Lemmy IS God!"
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-10-15 08:01:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have a fine collection of tie-dyes and stoner/tripper shirts that I got at Grateful Dead/Ratdog/JGB/JGAB/Other Ones shows. Doesn't mean I listen to hippie music exclusively and think you should too.
Stop taking what other people wear so seriously. You'll just end up spending your life angry.
Submitted by DeMoNiC (user info) at 2007-10-15 05:51:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hell Yes. Agreed.
Submitted by BranDo (user info) at 2007-10-15 03:50:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm proud of my Dipshitness.
Submitted by Wildman (user info) at 2007-10-15 03:21:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-13 20:10:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
...Sorry not everything the world doesn't revolved around your precious post, Scott! Scott Reynolds!
^^^^^^^^^^
uhhhhhh what??
anyway, this comes from the same person who left 38 comments on the same post
32, After...leaving that barely readable comment
just Wow! dude
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 20:03:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Much appreciated.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 19:49:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You're welcome.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 19:28:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
NUMBER ONE HEAT BITCH
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:34:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Totally. Thanks.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:34:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Touché.
you old fart.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:33:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Reckon that's your most heated. Good night all.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:33:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:31:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well he just gets on my tits. It's always the same with him. Blah blah 'you young punks don't know anything' - blah blah 'When I was your age...'
If occasionally he'd post something interesting - or a review that wasn't so plain dull, I might be content to just ignore him. But he's just so cunting smug.
***
That should be cuntingLY smug, you retard. . . :)
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:33:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
If I can't get irrationally grumpy at the internet, what the hell can I be grumpy about?
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:32:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
besides - we'd have to know each other for it to be an argument. This is just internet shit.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:32:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The fact that that gets under your skin so easily is disturbing.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:31:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well he just gets on my tits. It's always the same with him. Blah blah 'you young punks don't know anything' - blah blah 'When I was your age...'
If occasionally he'd post something interesting - or a review that wasn't so plain dull, I might be content to just ignore him. But he's just so cunting smug.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:31:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:24:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I love the fact that their irrelevant personal argument is bringing me heat.
*******
Baron, this ain't an argument. This is our idea of fun. Must be your turn for heat, huh?
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:27:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I would have to agree with Bubba. As in, reeeelaaaaaaaaax!!!
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:27:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/112460#2554214
---
hmmm?
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:26:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:19:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I see you weren't talking about basic human anatomy.
I've never understood why it is you think yourself superior to people.
You come across as colossally arrogant with nothing to back it up.
You're the bloke who sits in the pub who everyone avoids when he goes off on a rant about gypsies or whatever group he thinks has slighted him.
In short, shut the fuck up until you actually prove that you're worth listening to. Your age means nothing, only your glaring ignorance and unsubstantiated boasting about your prowess.
********
OK, RedFuckSoundsStupid, you wanna get serious? Can't take a fucking joke?
Fine. I never said I was better that you, you pretentious little fuck. Yes, I am older, and probably smarter, but I DIDN"T SAY THAT!!!
Stick to what is written, not what is implied by your tiny intellect.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:25:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm procrastinating. I should be reading about the philosophy of education for one of my courses.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:24:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I love the fact that their irrelevant personal argument is bringing me heat.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:19:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I see you weren't talking about basic human anatomy.
I've never understood why it is you think yourself superior to people.
You come across as colossally arrogant with nothing to back it up.
You're the bloke who sits in the pub who everyone avoids when he goes off on a rant about gypsies or whatever group he thinks has slighted him.
In short, shut the fuck up until you actually prove that you're worth listening to. Your age means nothing, only your glaring ignorance and unsubstantiated boasting about your prowess.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:15:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:12:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 23:10:30 BST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:08:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you graduated?
And they say educational standards have declined.
*************
They have. What I knew in 3rd grade you still have yet to learn. . .
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Are you talking about the touch of a man's penis on my anus? Coz you'd be right there. you were WELL ahead of me.
****
A touch anywhere on your body would be on your anus, especially above your neck.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:13:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
RAPE ISN'T FUNNY!!!!!
I'm kidding. Rape is hilarious.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:12:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 23:10:30 BST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:08:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you graduated?
And they say educational standards have declined.
*************
They have. What I knew in 3rd grade you still have yet to learn. . .
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Are you talking about the touch of a man's penis on my anus? Coz you'd be right there. you were WELL ahead of me.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:10:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Four away from word association! We can do it!
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:10:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:08:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you graduated?
And they say educational standards have declined.
*************
They have. What I knew in 3rd grade you still have yet to learn. . .
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:09:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
besides Bubba - Davros is older than you.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:08:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you graduated?
And they say educational standards have declined.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:06:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Red, you spacker, you broughter. . .
Baron, revel in the heat.
Lunger, you were born the same year I gradjjuated hi skool. . . :)
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:04:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Bless you, you wonderful old men.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:04:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You're still a spacker though bubba.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:03:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Very mature. ;)
gis a hug grandad
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:03:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Red, you SUSPECT everything because you don't KNOW anything, you scrotum licker.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:03:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ps, Thanks Bubba, but I'm kind of an asshole.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:02:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I was born in '67. Summer of Love, baby.
I like Janis, but I think she's a bit too hyped, like Jim Morrison, whom I also like, but still...
Hendrix, on the other hand, cannot be too hyped.
My step-mom saw Janis' last show.
I don't dislike the Rockies, but they can suck shit until they beat the d'backs, and then I'll start rooting for them, unless the Indians beat the sox. Or, I'll just root for the team on whom I have money riding.
I prefer Laffy Taffy to Werthers. And Gummy Bears. Those are awesome.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 18:01:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 22:59:57 BST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:52:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
and Bubba, what if Lungfish is older than you? Does that mean you can stop calling everyone a kid just because you smell of worther's originals?
**********
No, RED, I'm saying that you and all the other YOUNG -2ing fucksticks are fools. Get my point, asshole?
P.S. Lunger is not an asshole. He is cool.
---
I'm 26.
Your age has nothing to do with you being a cockweasel. That's entirely your own doing. Mind you, you have more practice being aforementioned penisrodent, so I suspect you've become rather good at it.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:59:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:52:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
and Bubba, what if Lungfish is older than you? Does that mean you can stop calling everyone a kid just because you smell of worther's originals?
**********
No, RED, I'm saying that you and all the other YOUNG -2ing fucksticks are fools. Get my point, asshole?
P.S. Lunger is not an asshole. He is cool.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:58:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Dipshittery thinking ios encouraged on colleges.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/112217
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:58:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
That's where we disagree.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:56:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, I'm of the opinion that even if communism "worked" how Marx intended, it would be a bad thing. The government forcing you to give them everything so that they can redistribute it as they see fit-not kosher.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:56:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 22:54:13 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
It's Werther's, with an E. I'm a teenager and I love those
---
old fuck.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:55:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Perhaps - but maybe Marx was more of an optimist. I'd like to think with training and time, we could put aside our little squabbles.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:54:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's Werther's, with an E. I'm a teenager and I love those.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:53:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Unfortunately, since, as it was pointed out, he meant for there to be government, power exists, therefore power is taken advantage of-easy to do in a system where the government literally controls everything.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:53:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
LUNGFISH: I live in Colorado, therefore, FUCK THE D'Backs... :)
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:52:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
and Bubba, what if Lungfish is older than you? Does that mean you can stop calling everyone a kid just because you smell of worther's originals?
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:52:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Marx didn't forget about greed - he just thought that the needs of the people would overcome it. Given time. And enough social pressure.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:50:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:33:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc might be more accurate.
What's being ignored, is that a great number of totalitarian states were helped along or, indeed, created by the good ol' US of A. "Communism" is just a word...an idea that was used as a prop in order to achieve a end. Others have achieved the same end with a different verbiage. As the dubiously great Janis Joplin proclaimed: "It's all the same fucking day, man."
Kids.
But I have a lot of pubes stuck in my drain, and I haven't read nearly all the reviews, and I don't really give a shit. I'm taking a break because the cleaning supplies have made me lightheaded.
**********
Lunger: How DARE you refer to Janis as "dubiously great." You probably weren't even born when she died. She was awesome, just like you.
Prime et al: Herren Marx und Engels forgot one minor point: Human greed.
Communism cannot work due to human nature.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:43:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wasn't arguing with you, in any case. The "Che" fad is just that. People wear that face because it looks cool. But not as cool as Daffy Duck.
I now have a genuine headache.
go d'backs
:(
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:35:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
But of course. My original idea was to point out that people were supporting mass murderers without knowing it. Somehow it seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent...
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:33:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc might be more accurate.
What's being ignored, is that a great number of totalitarian states were helped along or, indeed, created by the good ol' US of A. "Communism" is just a word...an idea that was used as a prop in order to achieve a end. Others have achieved the same end with a different verbiage. As the dubiously great Janis Joplin proclaimed: "It's all the same fucking day, man."
Kids.
But I have a lot of pubes stuck in my drain, and I haven't read nearly all the reviews, and I don't really give a shit. I'm taking a break because the cleaning supplies have made me lightheaded.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:20:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The post hoc fallacy doesn't apply here because the connection being made between the two events has so much more behind it than the fact that one followed the other.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:19:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:02:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes, I'm quite well read on my logical fallacies, including that one. My arguements, taken in context, are consistent with it. Think about it.
-----
Shit. You fucked it up. You were s'posed to call me an old man, and then I was gonna come back with:
http://logicalfallacies.info/personalattack.html
That would have been funny.
I'll leave you kids at it.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:13:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Wow, I just noticed this is getting close to Word Association...it's been #1 for weeks.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:13:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The only way everyone can get what they need is either for everyone to get it themselves or for those who won't/can't to get it from others. Seeing as people don't all get it themselves, and those others don't always voluntarily give to others, you have to force them. Allowing the government to use this sort of force means that any shitface claiming to have people's needs at heart, if he has enough people willing to commit force on his behalf, can do whatever the fuck he wants, and as such becomes a dictator. Which is why every country attempting communism has had terrible results, such as dictatorship; it's not a coincidence. Futher, how did Karl Marx "say himself" that these countries aren't communist? He died before they existed.
---
Utter utter bollocks.
Firstly, there is the concept of the surplus. It's the basis of capitalism and communism. You contribute all you can - the difference between your needs and your contribution is given for redistribution.
Secondly, the 'communist' revolutions in Eastern Europe and Asia were preceded by various movements in those countries. It wasn't a huge surprise when revolutions broke out - most were stamped on pretty hard by the landed oligarchy. I have read Karl Marx's very words on this topic. He was disturbed that his ideas were being put to things that he did not advocate.
Also - if the people back it - it's not really a dictatorship is it? More of a democracy. Dictatorship traditionally means based on the strength of the armed forces.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:08:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.ubersite.com/m/112460#2554015 There.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:04:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 22:00:13 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
*wave to them from space
We've already dealt with the "there have been no commie countries" issue. Stop deluding yourself.
--
Where?
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:03:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 21:59:32 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
Except I have every reason to believe that the USSR would have done better under a free market, seeing as historically free markets have created nearly every technology we use...
Yeah, Sputnik was terrific. Having some Russian wave to them as they starved to death just changed everything for them!
---
Seeing as historically there have never been any communist countries - or truly communist run economies with an existing strong industrial base - I think your premise is flawed. Of course most inventions occurred under 'free market' economies.
Noone was in Sputnik by the way. It was just a satellite. It did herald transcontinental communication and satellite TV however.
America has traditionally had strongly protectionist policies on its economy by the way.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:02:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes, I'm quite well read on my logical fallacies, including that one. My arguements, taken in context, are consistent with it. Think about it.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:00:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
d-prime: http://logicalfallacies.info/posthoc.html
Figure it out.
I don't have time to argue, as I am cleaning my bathroom, which is nasty.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 17:00:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*wave to them from space
We've already dealt with the "there have been no commie countries" issue. Stop deluding yourself.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:59:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Except I have every reason to believe that the USSR would have done better under a free market, seeing as historically free markets have created nearly every technology we use...
Yeah, Sputnik was terrific. Having some Russian wave to them as they starved to death just changed everything for them!
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:59:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
There are no communist countries. There never have been.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:58:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 21:52:54 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
I wouldn't quite say the USSR developed nothing. I'd say they developed nearly nothing that had practical benefit to humans. And that whatever practical technologies they may have happened to develop would have come faster and better if they were living under a free market.
---
Sputnik? Mir?
The soviets started the space race.
And if you are going to say that it would have been better under the free market, I'll just turn it around.
The USA would have produced far more innovations under a communist system of government.
We're both wildly reaching there.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:58:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I've got to go eat dinner >_>. Uh, this was mostly interesting! Later guys.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:57:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"nothing in socialism or communisim calls for the oppression of minorities." I'm sorry, but forcing people to poll their resources as the government seens fit oppresses minorities.
"the thing i'm trying to say about the 2million example is .. the main problem with capitlaism is that a minority makes more than enough to last 7 lifetimes while lots of people strave to death or can't earn enough even while holding down 2 honest jobs. communism tries to address these points." In what fucking capitalist country are lots of people starving to death? Yes, it's hard for the lowest rungs, like it is in any country, but despite that income disparity, the lowest rung is still way better off under capitalism than the corresponding rung in a socialist country.
"but i've heard both sides of the arguments many times, and i think both are not convincing, so i think both ideas should be developed further. and thus i think venezuela plays an important role and shouldn't be attack just because it is a socialist country"
Sure, let the ideas develop further. In the mean time, let's go with the one that is obviously more practical. I fail to see how being yet another shitty socialist country is playing an important role.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:55:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I certainly don't remember Marx saying that government would vanish. Can you provide a reference please?" The communist manifesto and all his other writings and many high school primers. He believed capitalism would lead to a dictatorship of the lower classes, which would lead to peaceful communist anarchy.
"Northern Rock are a building society - who hold the key to many mortgages in Britain. Recently they had a liquidity crisis which would have brought the company down. This would have left many people without their savings and mortgage. The central bank (bank of last resort) stepped in and provided cash. This prevented wide spread distress.
Would this have happened in a truly free market economy? Is it desirable?"
I believe in individiual responcibility for one's own bad decisions, and that we're setting a bad precent by saving people who make bad investments. Now, I'm sure the situation is more complicated than that, but I can say this. Situations of economic collapse can almost always be routed to some government fuck-up in capitalist mixed economies, and that where people DO deserve help it should come voluntarily. Having all generosity be voluntarily may seem naive, but under capitalism a whole lot fewer people would need it, and the lack of taxation and the lack of being forced would make people a whole lot more generous, I think.
---
I've read the communist manifesto - but I can't claim to have read all of Marx's other writings. He wrote a lot. Of his work that I've read, I can't remember him saying at any point that government would vanish. That would make no sense. You need government in order to distribute goods effectively, and to collect talent appropriately. Are you sure you weren't reading somebody's interpretation?
The main problem with Northern Rock appears to be that the government didn't govern enough - and until it was too late.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:54:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Baron, that was a terrible comparison. He doesn't think they're unrebellious because they all happen to be doing the same thing. He thinks they're unrebellious becuase the rebllion is ABOUT something as dumb as clothing, and that they're doing it for being part of a social group, etc.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:53:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That no one with a Che shirt is rebelling, dolt.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:52:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wouldn't quite say the USSR developed nothing. I'd say they developed nearly nothing that had practical benefit to humans. And that whatever practical technologies they may have happened to develop would have come faster and better if they were living under a free market.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:52:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 21:50:20 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:49:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Che was a rebel. Maybe that's what people identify with?
---------------
It must be. It must be, because of just how gosh darn rebellious it is to wear the same shirt as millions and millions of other people.
---
In Sri Lanka - lots of people are rebelling, and they are all dressed the same. What was your point again?
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:51:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
dprime:
nothing in socialism or communisim calls for the oppression of minorities.
the thing i'm trying to say about the 2million example is .. the main problem with capitlaism is that a minority makes more than enough to last 7 lifetimes while lots of people strave to death or can't earn enough even while holding down 2 honest jobs. communism tries to address these points.
but i've heard both sides of the arguments many times, and i think both are not convincing, so i think both ideas should be developed further. and thus i think venezuela plays an important role and shouldn't be attack just because it is a socialist country
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:51:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I was pointing to the balance of market forces and governmental forces. Furthermore, I was demonstrating that some countries are more regulated than others - and have a high rate of living, thus weakening the premise that free economy results in the highest standard of living." There seems to be a tipping point at about 50% where any economy with less interferance than that does way better, and any economy with more does way worse, with little variatn between 40-0 and 60-100. So places like Sweden with 60% capitalism and places like the US with 80% and places like Hong Kong with 95% all do roughly the same - but even past that tipping point, it's still the general trend for more capitalism to be better.
"I certainly don't remember Marx saying that government would vanish. Can you provide a reference please?" The communist manifesto and all his other writings and many high school primers. He believed capitalism would lead to a dictatorship of the lower classes, which would lead to peaceful communist anarchy.
"Northern Rock are a building society - who hold the key to many mortgages in Britain. Recently they had a liquidity crisis which would have brought the company down. This would have left many people without their savings and mortgage. The central bank (bank of last resort) stepped in and provided cash. This prevented wide spread distress.
Would this have happened in a truly free market economy? Is it desirable?"
I believe in individiual responcibility for one's own bad decisions, and that we're setting a bad precent by saving people who make bad investments. Now, I'm sure the situation is more complicated than that, but I can say this. Situations of economic collapse can almost always be routed to some government fuck-up in capitalist mixed economies, and that where people DO deserve help it should come voluntarily. Having all generosity be voluntarily may seem naive, but under capitalism a whole lot fewer people would need it, and the lack of taxation and the lack of being forced would make people a whole lot more generous, I think.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:50:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 21:49:26 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:47:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You are mistaking capitalism for technological advancement.
-----------
No, he's explaining that capitalism is the reason that basically all technological advancement has occurred.
---
Fire?
hmmm
If we were - just for a moment - to imagine that Russia HAD been communist - would you say that they developed nothing?
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:50:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:49:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Che was a rebel. Maybe that's what people identify with?
---------------
It must be. It must be, because of just how gosh darn rebellious it is to wear the same shirt as millions and millions of other people.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:49:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:47:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You are mistaking capitalism for technological advancement.
-----------
No, he's explaining that capitalism is the reason that basically all technological advancement has occurred.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:49:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Che was a rebel. Maybe that's what people identify with?
Submitted by Val (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:48:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"On the other hand, by wearing a shirt, you're showing everyone that you're full of shit, that you care more about people KNOWING that you think Che is cool than Che himself."
That's a very good point. The sad fact is, nobody actually cares what is going on in the world today. Memorizing AOL headlines is enough to seem educated and involved, because everyone's on the same page of American ignorance.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:48:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:47:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You are mistaking capitalism for technological advancement.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:45:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 21:39:56 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Sweden has a very high rate of basic tax - but a high standard of living. Probably higher than the USA. There are plenty of countries with very high tax rates (i.e. government run) - which is pretty much what Marx was talking about - with very high standards of living and contentment of the population."
Sorry, no. Marx specifically described the lower classes rising up and ruling society as noble dictators - eventually leading to anarchy because people love the government so much it can just go away. Sweden is not what Marx described. Further, Sweden is roughly the same as other Western countires because - just like them - it is a mix of capitalism and socialism. Taxes are one attribute in which it is more socialistic. It is less socialistic than many western countires in terms of issues like regulation. It is so successful, like Canada, because it is mostly capitalistic.
---
I was pointing to the balance of market forces and governmental forces. Furthermore, I was demonstrating that some countries are more regulated than others - and have a high rate of living, thus weakening the premise that free economy results in the highest standard of living.
I certainly don't remember Marx saying that government would vanish. Can you provide a reference please?
Good strong regulation - and appropriate market intervention reduces damage to the people.
Northern Rock are a building society - who hold the key to many mortgages in Britain. Recently they had a liquidity crisis which would have brought the company down. This would have left many people without their savings and mortgage. The central bank (bank of last resort) stepped in and provided cash. This prevented wide spread distress.
Would this have happened in a truly free market economy? Is it desirable?
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:44:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yeah. I meant to say what he said.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:44:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Marx seemed to have wanted education for the sake of education. It seems that today as automation means intelligence is more important than labor, a higher percentage of the popularion is naturally becoming educated because there is less demand for labor jobs... one day maybe no one can do labor, but that can only happen successfully under capitalism.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:43:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm not quite sure what Baron is saying (so I can't agree or disagree,) but "lower class" people ARE becoming more and more educated - because of the benefits of capitalism in western nations, like the Internet. And our society is becoming more affluent and intelligence-based: because of capitalism.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:42:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You're misinterpreting my point. The working class is obviously more educated than it used to be, in terms of school and being world-aware in general. But if they were educated/intelligent to the point Marx seemed to want, who would do their jobs? They wouldn't want to.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:42:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Red, my parents are LOWER middle class; actually, I should say "parent," because I hardly spoke to my dad until recently. Whenever I argue about politics people think I'm some spoiled American from Laguna Beach. I grew up in the shittiest urban part of Toronto, by a lower-middleclass/upper lower class single mother, surrounded by Canadian socialists. Trust me, I've reached my ideas independently.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:39:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Sweden has a very high rate of basic tax - but a high standard of living. Probably higher than the USA. There are plenty of countries with very high tax rates (i.e. government run) - which is pretty much what Marx was talking about - with very high standards of living and contentment of the population."
Sorry, no. Marx specifically described the lower classes rising up and ruling society as noble dictators - eventually leading to anarchy because people love the government so much it can just go away. Sweden is not what Marx described. Further, Sweden is roughly the same as other Western countires because - just like them - it is a mix of capitalism and socialism. Taxes are one attribute in which it is more socialistic. It is less socialistic than many western countires in terms of issues like regulation. It is so successful, like Canada, because it is mostly capitalistic.
"Marx clearly argued that heavily industrialised countries were the ideal for switching to communism. NOT rural countries with no money. It required a stong infrastructure to support the changeover. Otherwise you get what happened in Russia - the wrong conditions for things to change effectively. It's supposed to be an educated working class rising up." In additon to the basic stupidity of expecting a country to need capitalism to reach industry, but not to sustain or surpass it, there's a reason it's hard to find previously industrial countries that are communist. Any industrialized country has had capitalism and seen the benefits, and therefore (hopefully) most people don't want to bother with communism.
I'm afraid I don't have enough understand of the context around Northernrock to figure what it is from that page.
"I absolutely believe in strong competition. But look at companies like Microsoft - they NEED regulation. It's anti competitive for them to continue in the manner they would prefer." Nope. There is nothing anti-competitive about Microsoft. There's nothing stopping other companies from entering the field - and as a matter of fact, they are. And if Microsoft gets much worse, the situation will change. Even if a company is the only one in an industry at any particular time (which Microsoft isn't, anyway, look at Linux and OSX,) there's nothing to say other companies can enter if they want and people want to be their customers.
Okay, sure, obviously we need regulation against companies explicitly ripping people off, but that's not market regulation any more than it's market regulation that I can't steal your mailbox.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:39:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 21:35:20 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
If the working class was educated, they wouldn't be the working class. The idea of making everyone equal doesn't work because not only are people not equal, people need to be janitors and factory workers because that shit has to get done. Deltas and Epsilons need to exist for society to function.
---
Funny that - with my government saying that 50% of people will go to university it seems that your notion of the working class not being educated is outdated. You realise that there is the internet nowadays? And libraries?
And if you think that having a degree gets you a good job - you're a fool.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:35:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If the working class was educated, they wouldn't be the working class. The idea of making everyone equal doesn't work because not only are people not equal, people need to be janitors and factory workers because that shit has to get done. Deltas and Epsilons need to exist for society to function.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:35:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i think what's good for venezuela is for the venezuelans to decide. i think it is unfair to crticise chavez for not wiping out all their problems at once. past governments have been shitting on the poor for years, now they want chavez, they want a change, we should respect them for their courage and their decision.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:33:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The working class does NOT suffer under capitalism; that's a fucking myth.
---
are your parents middle class?
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:32:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"haha.. i think in america that may be the case. mostly because america kicked out the communist a while ago. now i think, without that balance it has become the example of capitalism gone wrong. in europe the lefies are more keen on discussion, they are very realistic and have an oepn mind." I like how you threw in "realistic" with open to discussion and having an open mind. Sometimes there's so much evidence for one side that it's irrational and unrealistic to remain neutral. The US is the perfect example of capitalism gone wrong: the wrongness that comes from not being capitalistic enough. All the problems in the US right now come from government interferance. Currupt corporations, for example, become currupt because they make deals with the government which is able to do so because it controls parts of the economy.
"i know communisim is not perfect, but if a majority of people want a socialist government they should have it. that is democracy. socialism must be built from the ground up and not top down. that way, the power will always be in the hands of the people. countries like venezuela should be allowed to develope without the international pressure and jhostility exerted by america." Saying communism is not perfect gives it way too much credit. It's terrible. No, perhaps America shouldn't interfere if certain countries do things in a fucked up way. But it's still fucked up. I don't think socialism is justified by democracy. If 75% of a population wants to poll its resources and crap, that 75% can go ahead, but having more people doesn't give you the right to opress a minority.
"oh and i would argue about the 'despite capitalism part' because i think that capitalism is a system of competition for resources. let's say if a company makes 2 million this year but if he cuts down a forest of lay off some workers it can make 3 mill. then it has to do so, or else its competitor will do so, make that extra money and be in a position to take down the rival. so companies must do the worst to survive, and most often the working class suffers." What's wrong with cutting down forests? Using resources is GOOD. And really, it's the mental work that makes resources valuable; which is why Japan and Hong Kong are so much more affluent than Russia or Africa, which have way more resources. But your key flaw here is assuming that the competition under capitalism is a competition to rip more people off. The fact is that competition means companies need to please customers, which if they don't, the customers will say fuck off and spend their money elsewhere, because under capitalism you can't force anyone to trade with you. The working class does NOT suffer under capitalism; that's a fucking myth.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:32:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Sweden has a very high rate of basic tax - but a high standard of living. Probably higher than the USA. There are plenty of countries with very high tax rates (i.e. government run) - which is pretty much what Marx was talking about - with very high standards of living and contentment of the population.
Marx clearly argued that heavily industrialised countries were the ideal for switching to communism. NOT rural countries with no money. It required a strong infrastructure to support the changeover. Otherwise you get what happened in Russia - the wrong conditions for things to change effectively. It's supposed to be an educated working class rising up.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:29:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
green-just because it's better doesn't mean it's good. It's no excuse for anything to be an improvement. Most communist uprisings have been because of horrible monarchistic situations, and most were actually improvements, but not big ones, and were still horrible societies.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:27:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.northernrock.co.uk/
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
I absolutely believe in strong competition. But look at companies like Microsoft - they NEED regulation. It's anti competitive for them to continue in the manner they would prefer.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:27:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:19:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Here are some facts about Venenzuela...
"Child malnutrition (defined as stunting or wasting in children under age five) stands at 17%; Delta Amacuro and Amazonas have the nation's highest rates.[19] According to the United Nations, 32% of Venezuelans lack adequate sanitation, primarily those living in rural areas. [20] Diseases ranging from typhoid, yellow fever, cholera, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and hepatitis D are present in the country.[21] Only 3% of sewage is treated; most major cities lack treatment facilities.[22] 17% of Venezuelans lack access to potable water.[23] As of 1999, around 110,000 Venezuelans had HIV.[24]"
THIS is the prime example of communism at it's best! Okay, the USSR/China/North Korea etc. etc. might have famine and such, which Venenzuela doesn't, but it says something that you become an example of the greatness of communism merely because your population isn't starving. Woot Venenzuela!
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ok i didn't check, but i believe the stats were worse before chavez got into power...in fact much worse
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:25:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nope, red, I don't. Which is unfortunate. Laissez-faire capitalism for the win! But it's a matter of degrees, when it comes to the many mixed economies of the world.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:24:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:09:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh Green, my friend, you are far too polite and rational to be defending socialism. The only effective way to defend socialism is to be an irrational prick flailing his arms and claiming anyone who disagrees is ignorant. Unfortunately you are not that low, so you will never defend it effectively.
Yes, a lot of people would say capitalism has caused harm; I've seen The Corporation and many movies and books like it. But the fact is that capitalist countries are generally far more affluent than any other type, including for the lower classes, and that seeing as (through trade) all capitalistic interactions are voluntary, it's really impossible to deal with others through anything other than mutural benefit. No, the societies that form under capitalism aren't always perfect, but the flaws are despite, not because of capitalism.
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haha.. i think in america that may be the case. mostly because america kicked out the communist a while ago. now i think, without that balance it has become the example of capitalism gone wrong. in europe the lefies are more keen on discussion, they are very realistic and have an oepn mind.
i know communisim is not perfect, but if a majority of people want a socialist government they should have it. that is democracy. socialism must be built from the ground up and not top down. that way, the power will always be in the hands of the people. countries like venezuela should be allowed to develope without the international pressure and jhostility exerted by america.
oh and i would argue about the 'despite capitalism part' because i think that capitalism is a system of competition for resources. let's say if a company makes 2 million this year but if he cuts down a forest of lay off some workers it can make 3 mill. then it has to do so, or else its competitor will do so, make that extra money and be in a position to take down the rival. so companies must do the worst to survive, and most often the working class suffers.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:24:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
redskies-no, but it's better to be closer, i.e. Western Civilization, than further, i.e. pretend communists.
Submitted by Maddog (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:23:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, I don't mind. I just wanted to post funny pictures. Please, do continue. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:23:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 21:20:44 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
And my friend the baron may not have his facts straight, but his basic point is that in a government controlled economy, it's impossible for individuals to truly have the opportunity to express themselves without interferance. And it's true.
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do you think any country has a truly 'free' economy?
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:21:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I do have my facts straight.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:21:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Maddog, just 'cause we disagree doesn't mean we aren't getting along...
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:20:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, he personally commands the government organization in charge of elections; in a 2004 referendum deciding whether or not to recall him as President, exit polls showed that about 60% said "yes" and 40% so "no", while the apparent actual results were exactly the opposite-60 no, 40 yes. Refer to this link: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/baroneweb/mb_040820.htm and the links provided within this link to find information on evidence of him running an authoritarian-style government.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:20:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And my friend the baron may not have his facts straight, but his basic point is that in a government controlled economy, it's impossible for individuals to truly have the opportunity to express themselves without interferance. And it's true.
Submitted by Maddog (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:20:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
(sigh) I gues we CAN'T get along.
http://www.punksinscience.org/jeffrey/pics/johnny%20cash%20finger.jpg
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:19:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Here are some facts about Venenzuela...
"Child malnutrition (defined as stunting or wasting in children under age five) stands at 17%; Delta Amacuro and Amazonas have the nation's highest rates.[19] According to the United Nations, 32% of Venezuelans lack adequate sanitation, primarily those living in rural areas. [20] Diseases ranging from typhoid, yellow fever, cholera, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and hepatitis D are present in the country.[21] Only 3% of sewage is treated; most major cities lack treatment facilities.[22] 17% of Venezuelans lack access to potable water.[23] As of 1999, around 110,000 Venezuelans had HIV.[24]"
THIS is the prime example of communism at it's best! Okay, the USSR/China/North Korea etc. etc. might have famine and such, which Venenzuela doesn't, but it says something that you become an example of the greatness of communism merely because your population isn't starving. Woot Venenzuela!
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:14:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:09:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:06:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 15:59:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
'hey, if socialism is so great, it should be fine without help from us capitalits?'
this is very childish, one of the things marx talked about was internationl revolution. one country cannot create everything it needs. internationalism is a big thing in socialism. that's whwy che went off to bolivia.
things were really bad before lenin. there was a period when the economy suffered under lenin as well. but the reason lenin gets breaks is becuase under his revolution, less than 10 people lost their lives.
and i don't think you can dismiss chavez's achievements with one sentence. people lost their lives to put him back in power during the coup against him. he gets elected repeatedly.
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10 people? Did Russians become magically immune to age and disease when Lenin took power? I underestimated him!!!
Chavez gets elected repeatedly under massive amounts of suspicion that the elections are completely rigged. It's only ever suspicion because the government controls the information given to the people, and they would kill you and throw you in jail if you spoke out and said it was rigged. Just because people died to keep him in power doesn't mean he's good; just because he's better than a militaristic totalitarian government that would have been put in place had the coup succeeded doesn't mean anything good about him.
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there are shitloads of opposition televsion companies in venezueala, most of which crticise him everyday. some even say he is gay. of the people who are involved in the coup who are still in venezuela, how many have been executed? 0. these are facts, where are yours?
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international observers have dismissed allegations of fraud.. where do you get the idea that the elections where rigged?
Submitted by Maddog (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:11:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.happiestjoy.co.uk/resources/pictogrammes/pod1/Pete%20Guavara.jpg
No. Really. I mean, can't we just get along? Serously, jeez.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:09:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:06:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 15:59:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
'hey, if socialism is so great, it should be fine without help from us capitalits?'
this is very childish, one of the things marx talked about was internationl revolution. one country cannot create everything it needs. internationalism is a big thing in socialism. that's whwy che went off to bolivia.
things were really bad before lenin. there was a period when the economy suffered under lenin as well. but the reason lenin gets breaks is becuase under his revolution, less than 10 people lost their lives.
and i don't think you can dismiss chavez's achievements with one sentence. people lost their lives to put him back in power during the coup against him. he gets elected repeatedly.
----------------
10 people? Did Russians become magically immune to age and disease when Lenin took power? I underestimated him!!!
Chavez gets elected repeatedly under massive amounts of suspicion that the elections are completely rigged. It's only ever suspicion because the government controls the information given to the people, and they would kill you and throw you in jail if you spoke out and said it was rigged. Just because people died to keep him in power doesn't mean he's good; just because he's better than a militaristic totalitarian government that would have been put in place had the coup succeeded doesn't mean anything good about him.
-------
there are shitloads of opposition televsion companies in venezueala, most of which crticise him everyday. some even say he is gay. of the people who are involved in the coup who are still in venezuela, how many have been executed? 0. these are facts, where are yours?
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:09:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh Green, my friend, you are far too polite and rational to be defending socialism. The only effective way to defend socialism is to be an irrational prick flailing his arms and claiming anyone who disagrees is ignorant. Unfortunately you are not that low, so you will never defend it effectively.
Yes, a lot of people would say capitalism has caused harm; I've seen The Corporation and many movies and books like it. But the fact is that capitalist countries are generally far more affluent than any other type, including for the lower classes, and that seeing as (through trade) all capitalistic interactions are voluntary, it's really impossible to deal with others through anything other than mutural benefit. No, the societies that form under capitalism aren't always perfect, but the flaws are despite, not because of capitalism.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:09:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:04:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
baron,
read this 'Oh, yeah, dude, communism, it's like, peace, and love, and brotherhood, and killing well over 5 million people in the name of political suppression!'
and the last sentence of that paragraph.
-------------------
You obviously misunderstood the point of that sentence. The point was that the kids are idiots and while they think they are promoting peace and love they are actually promoting mass murder. But political suppression seems to follow communism around wherever it goes. How mysterious.
Submitted by Maddog (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:08:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.happiestjoy.co.uk/resources/pictogrammes/pod1/Pete%20Guavara.jpg
Can't we all just get along?
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:07:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TechnoRatty (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:05:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Stop fucking ranting....... you teenage twat!!
your views are bullshit and you talk through your arsehole
apart from that I really enjoyed this!!
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Wow, a retaliation minus. That's so much more mature than a teenager like me.
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-14 16:06:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-10-14 15:59:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
'hey, if socialism is so great, it should be fine without help from us capitalits?'
this is very childish, one of the things marx talked about was internationl revolution. one country cannot create everything it needs. internationalism is a big thing in socialism. that's whwy che went off to bolivia.
things were really bad before lenin. there was a period when the economy suffered under lenin as well. but the reason lenin gets breaks is becuase under his revolution, less than 10 people lost their lives.
and i don't think you can dismiss chavez's achievements with one sentence. people lost their lives to put him back in power during the coup against him. he gets elected repeatedly.
----------------
10 people? Did Russians become magically immune to age and disease when Lenin took power? I underestimated him!!!
Chavez gets elected repeatedly under massive amounts of suspicion that the elections are completely rigged. It's only ever suspicion beca