Good News Everybody!!! (1058 hits)
Category: Business & FinancialRating: 0.44 on 23 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by icarus (View user info) at 2008-01-12 12:40:40 EST
Hey, you've all probably heard about the oncoming recession thing. You know, about0 how some formerly bull economists are calling it a 'perfect' econimic storm? And how a lot of us in the Americas will be without jobs, or have our hours cut, or at the very least have to pay more for goods and services, thus lowering our standard of living?
Well, good news, countrymates! That's all still going to happen, BUT, Bush Jr says that 'hope' is returning to Baghdad! (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22620189/) Yup, turns out that even though we're commited to the country for an indefinite term, the billions of dollars and man hours and thousands of lives we've sunk into an apparently pointless operation have brought about progress against a terrorist network that didn't have much of a foothold in the nation until we showed up. So even though we'll have to continue to sink resources and lives into the situation, the insurgents will be less of a threat to the native population.
I've just got one question. Let's suppose, for a moment, that despite all evidence to the contrary, the US went into this war with the best of intentions. Let's say that this wasn't about weapons, or terrorists, or any apparent threat posed to our nation, but a humanitarean effort to liberate another group of people (many of whom are now dead), thus raising their quality of life and in some bizzare trickle-down way eliminating the root cause of the terorist's hatred of the US. Let's suppose you can stomach this rationale (and maybe you can). Let's suppose the "progress" is more than just partisan spin. Here's the big question: do you care? Would you have willingly given $150+B to promote "hope" in another country?
I'm asking in all honesty, because I know I wouldn't. Not that I don't believe in humanitarean causes; I spent a few years as s social worker, and a summer working as a youth coordinator for inner city kids. The youth coordinator gig was the best job I ever had. However:
1. As a social worker, I witnessed counselors encouraging women to call their husbands abusers even if they clearly were not. Why? Because the shelter, like any business, wants to grow, and got more money and attention for abused women than they did for women who simply made stupid life choices. The same principle applies to other nations. Let's say you feed the starving children on the commercials. Do you think the charitable organizations are going to sterilize them, find them some magical way to import industry to their countries, make them self-sufficient? No. The organizations need starving children to survive, so you can bet your ass that the children are going to be allowed to grow up and have starving children of their own. Outside help can be so counterproductive it can lead to a welfare state.
2. I don't believe that people in one country are morally obliged to provide aid another, any more than I am morally obliged to mow my neighbor's lawn or bail him out of bankruptcy.
3. More selfishly, I don't want to spend the money. This is not because I'm some Dickensian tightwad; it's because this country has problems of its own. I believe that those problems should rank higher on our priority list than problems in some other country. Our major concerns right now should be surviving this recsssion, assuring our present and future generations have sufficient jobs, and finding alternative and economical fuel sources.
Surely there are alternative opinions.
User Reviews
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-01-15 16:02:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2008-01-13 19:53:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I like the contents of your brain.
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Submitted by loki (user info) at 2008-01-13 17:25:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Maybe it was W's plan all along to help the unemployment rate in the US by killing off several thousand young able bodied Americans in some godforsken shit hole on the other side of the globe.
crazy like a fox
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2008-01-15 15:47:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
With the money we've spent on the war effort we could:
1) Fly every family in Iraq to Disneyland (First Class) and give them one week accommodations at the hotel of their choice, including food and over $400 spending money each.
OR
2) We could have bred bees, killer bees! We could have bred enough specialized attack bees (I forget the going rate but it's something like twenty-one quid for a living pound of the special bees) to kill every man woman and child in Iraq.
Just saying.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2008-01-14 12:59:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
heh
Submitted by Lib (user info) at 2008-01-14 12:43:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2008-01-13 19:53:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I like the contents of your brain.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2008-01-13 17:25:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Maybe it was W's plan all along to help the unemployment rate in the US by killing off several thousand young able bodied Americans in some godforsken shit hole on the other side of the globe.
crazy like a fox
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2008-01-13 09:25:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
B. Reopening the debtor's prisons,
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Now theres an idea to stop all those fuckwits with 40 grands worth of debt on their credit cards, a 250 grand mortgage and a brand new car every year. Fucking lock them up and make them build our roads.
Love TToM, Total debt £15000 of student loans
Submitted by locksly (user info) at 2008-01-13 03:58:14 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
put it in your fucking blog and smoke it.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2008-01-13 00:59:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
...which is not to say others who +2'd this do get it.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2008-01-13 00:58:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Icarus gets it
Submitted by HellRazer (user info) at 2008-01-13 00:50:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
nailed it.
Seriously man, these people have been fighting for 4000 years (see the Bible - Exodus chapter). It's fucking moronic to think that we can solve these problems with money and ammo. If you're going to make war to have peace then you MUST pick a side and bomb the other one in oblivion, otherwise it's just like sticking a band-aid on an arterial wound.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2008-01-12 23:15:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sadie73 (user info) at 2008-01-12 14:43:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
After reading, I will give a true rating. -2.
All of your examples of the foibles of social programs tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Simply because assholes try to coerce women to lie to promote certain agendas does not negate the good done by good agencies.
Maybe its not your "duty" to mow your neighbor's lawn, but if he/she is crippled or disabled it would make you a saint. The bullshit you propose makes you a selfish asshole who should be shot.
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That's just it, on the one hand. What I'm debating is not "what would be nice", or "what would make you a saint". It's duty. Sure, if we had an endless supply of cash, we could have a go at fixing all the problems in the world (we still wouldn't achieve peace in the Mideast, but oh well). But we don't, and as a nation, our first duty is to ourselves. Only after our people are in a good way do we have any business worrying about anyone else's problems. To do otherwise would be like mowing your neighbor's lawn and giving his kids PS3's while yours go without food.
Let's say we're not talking about $150B here. Let's say we're talking about the amount of cash you've got tied up in savings and investments and a 20% chunk of your paycheck every pay period. If it meant that a bunch of people on the other side of the world would be happy, would you give it up? Honestly, even though I've done more volunteer work than most, I would not.
Apollo:
Let's assume for just a second that this is not a partisan debate. Let's assume, for a second, that we have more options than just:
A. Abolishing all forms of weaponry and becoming hemp-wearing vegans.
B. Reopening the debtor's prisons, calling off Christmas, and bombing the hell out of anyone who disagrees with us.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2008-01-12 22:55:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Neptune222 (user info) at 2008-01-12 16:31:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
It's kind of ironic that you are saying we shouldn't be helping Iraqis because it will make them like dependant crack addicts for foreign aid, yet at the same time you are saying we should be using the money to bail out Americans hurt by this coming recession. So instead of foreign crack addicts, we get domestic ones.
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I think you're misunderstanding me here. I am not comparing Iraqis to crack junkies any more than I am comparing the women in the shelter to crack junkies (if anything, the institution itself was a crack junkie). What I am saying is I'd like to see us, as a nation, invest our tax dollars into our own economy and into technologies that will benefit us in the future, rather than into the president's rather unique interpretation of "foreign aid".
I will admit that there is a certain value judgement involved here. I believe that a nation's tax revenue is the property of its people, and that their first responsibility is to invest this revenue in ways that will benefit them, the same as it is my responsibility to invest my paycheck into food/transport/investments that benefit me. I don't think that anyone would debate this, though they might bicker over what the best investments would be.
What they might debate is the value of Bush's "hope" in Baghdad. Even if we've helped them to achieve a government we've modeled in our own image, was it worth it? Was it worth the thousands of lives, and on a more personal and perhaps selfish note, (since it was not my life that was involved) was it worth $150+B of our dollars? Let's say this war was a brilliant success, and that we had a nation full of grateful people cheering our country's name. Would it be worth $150B?
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2008-01-12 17:29:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Neptune222 (user info) at 2008-01-12 16:31:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
It's kind of ironic that you are saying we shouldn't be helping Iraqis because it will make them like dependant crack addicts for foreign aid, yet at the same time you are saying we should be using the money to bail out Americans hurt by this coming recession. So instead of foreign crack addicts, we get domestic ones.
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I think what he was inferring is that there are much better government funded causes to support over a pointless war in Iraq. For example, American school children are fucking stupid.
And, also, he might have even been inferring that he would prefer we take the Ron Paul route and not pay income tax at all, and spend our money how we see fit. (personally, I'd spend it on more 14 dollar six packs)
Submitted by sick.little.weasel (user info) at 2008-01-12 17:18:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
spot on. I say we just go bomb more of their rubble. Why is it that all middle eastern cities look like rock quarries.
Submitted by c1ndy (user info) at 2008-01-12 17:18:05 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by Neptune222 (user info) at 2008-01-12 16:31:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
It's kind of ironic that you are saying we shouldn't be helping Iraqis because it will make them like dependant crack addicts for foreign aid, yet at the same time you are saying we should be using the money to bail out Americans hurt by this coming recession. So instead of foreign crack addicts, we get domestic ones.
Submitted by Flak (user info) at 2008-01-12 15:15:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The real question is not whether or not you should mow your neighbor's yard. The question is whether the governemtn should take money from you at gunpoint and then, after paying several levels of paper-pushing governemtn employees along the way, use what's left of the money to mow your neighbors yard in an attempt to get your neighbor to vote a certain way.
If I want to donate money to a cause then I should be able to do that. I should not be forced to hand over my paycheck to the government so that some beaurocrat can decide what to do with it.
Take government grants for instance. The government takes money from it's citizens and pays for infrastructure so it can dole out some money to fund the rehabing of an historic theater in Kansas City. Some schmuck in Washington State working on a fishing boat just funded a theater in Kansas City because some government agency thought it was a good idea. It's not that I am against preservation of historic landmarks, it's that I think private money should fund these projects. Instead, the government holds on to power by redistributing income and wasting money along the way.
Your money represents your life. If someone takes money or property from you, they are taking part of your life. You give up a certain part of your life in exchange for money. when the government taxes you, you are giving up a portion of your life.
Submitted by sadie73 (user info) at 2008-01-12 14:43:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
After reading, I will give a true rating. -2.
All of your examples of the foibles of social programs tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Simply because assholes try to coerce women to lie to promote certain agendas does not negate the good done by good agencies.
Maybe its not your "duty" to mow your neighbor's lawn, but if he/she is crippled or disabled it would make you a saint. The bullshit you propose makes you a selfish asshole who should be shot.
Submitted by Flak (user info) at 2008-01-12 14:15:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The Middle East is full of folks who refuse to leave the dark ages. They prove over and over again that they are closer to animal than human. It takes a brutal dictator to keep any sort of order. What I am against is spending that amount of money to do a half-ass job. That's not to say that our folks in uniform don't do a good job. They are simply not allowed to prosecute this war like it needs to be fought. We should take over these countries and take the oil. The Arabs would still be wandering around in their giant litter box collecting dates if the West hadn't stepped in and built their oil industry.
Yes, I'm all for alternative fuel sources. Oil is some nasty stuff. It also goes into lots of other things besides our tanks. There are several synthetic fibers and plastics that are derived from oil.
I'm also for fiscal responsibility in the government. You're never going to see that as long as we are in the strangle-hold of our current two-party (one big party) system and the income tax system that gives the government its power. The Fair Tax would solve many of our problems including the coming recession. Don't bother regurgitating anti-Fair Tax arguments unless you've actually read the book and the legislation yourself.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-01-12 14:12:56 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
plus, they're only darkies right?
Submitted by sadie73 (user info) at 2008-01-12 14:12:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Sickfuck control.
Submitted by sicosemen (user info) at 2008-01-12 13:02:22 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment