Berty muses on self flaggelation/vocational work (1509 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 0.88 on 125 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Berty (View user info) at 2008-07-08 05:17:47 EDT
Earlier I was listening to the radio and they were doing a programme on old peoples homes and the people who work in them. This dude went undercover and was working in a home with, like, 20 people in it and there were 3 care workers and a nurse.
They spent the whole day cleaning up old folks who had pissed themselves because there weren't enough of them to take them all to the toilet every 2 hours because lots of the time the old people had dementia so needed to be moved by, like, 3 people. They only got paid minimum wage. The bloke who the BBC had sent 'undercover' (although not really) kept saying stuff like "he's got wee all over his trousers and all up his back. He is covered in wee" which made the whole thing sound worse somehow. They said they didn't have enough staff.
Whilst the story depressed me, it made me really want to give up my job and work with sick people. I am a special case though as I have always suffered inordinatly from guilt because I am an extreemely lazy man from a single parent upbringing. Thus I am conflicted between a desire to be dutiful in caring for others, preferably others who are in an extraordinarily gross or difficult situation, and my incredible, Garfield-esque, laziness.
Also I hate people, so that is another one for the 'cons' column.
Anyway, what I'd like to know is your thoughts on guilt and whether you have any weird feelings towards 'duty' as I do in relation to caring for others. Maybe you even feel genuine compassion for your fellow man?
User Reviews
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2008-07-11 15:28:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The most rewarding job I ever had was teaching English and 'Life skills' ie making simple meals, how to do laundry etc to adults with learning disabilities.
Sadly, I had to give it up as the pay was insultingly low and I had bills.
I then trained to be a phlebotomist. Extrememly rewarding work but again, bad pay.
I am now a confectioner. And rich. And fat.
The End.
Submitted by Doodles (user info) at 2008-07-09 11:15:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-09 04:54:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What do you mean "turned into"? Berty has always been a source of intellectual debate and pleasant conversation.
Berty is more than a man, Berty is an institution. I should get in touch with Electro and get him to write me a theme tune.
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Electro founder of Crapoartworks® does not do theme tunes. Crapoartworks® only produces the highest quality low quality cartoons that you have come to know and cherish. Crapoartworks® does not wish to be associated with these 'theme tunes' as we, Crapoartworks®, believe that would take our company Crapoartworks® in the wrong direction.
Sincerely,
Crapoartworks®
P.S. Crapoartworks® Crapoartworks® Crapoartworks®
Submitted by i_can_get_you_a_toe (user info) at 2008-07-09 11:03:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
My radio plays Rock.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2008-07-09 07:28:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Berys a flaming homo with big butterflies for ears.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-09 04:54:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What do you mean "turned into"? Berty has always been a source of intellectual debate and pleasant conversation.
Berty is more than a man, Berty is an institution. I should get in touch with Electro and get him to write me a theme tune.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2008-07-09 04:45:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I BET YOU STILL NEED A HAIRCUT.
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2008-07-09 04:45:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You have turned into quite the heatwhore, Berty. I like it.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2008-07-09 04:41:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
is this post still going?? go muse on something else hippy.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-09 04:30:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It is clear I will have to do a post going through, in fine detail, exactly why humans are better than other animals.
Seriously, if we lived in the animal kingdom it would be more depressing and mentally upsetting than taking loads of ketamine and watching Letters from Iwo Jima.
Submitted by Amontillado (user info) at 2008-07-08 21:45:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I tend to care more for animals than other people. I've donated a fair bit of time and money to a no-kill shelter nearby but hate going to old folks homes and the like.
Submitted by MyTeeOne (user info) at 2008-07-08 17:11:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I've felt the need/duty to help those less fortunate than me. However, I couldn't clean up the bio waste of the elderly. I would gag. Without question. I've seen people do it, I know people who do it and jolly swell for them. I'm not one of those people.
I do, however, other charity events instead. I have the advantage of having my own comedy group so we book a lot of shows at charity functions. We're regulars at the benefits for Children's Memorial Hospital for instance. We also play at a lot of parties for different scholarship funds.
I guess the point is that there are a lot of ways to feel like you've met your obligation to the less fortunate. Find the one that works for you Berty.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2008-07-08 16:00:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:09:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
blah blah blah......
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:39:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No Indo - you are against universal healthcare because you don't believe everyone has the right to life.
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That is even better than I am against universal healthcare because I want Apollo's girl to fill out pain in the ass forms. Whats next I am against universal healthcare becasue I hate puppies?
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YOU HATE PUPPIES??
Damn you, Indo. Just damn you.
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2008-07-08 15:22:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/117384#2737994
This made me laugh out loud. And yet, you have a point.
See, I don't want you to build your entire relationship around the premise of you smelling yummy, oh no! That's just to get the door open, just to get them onto you so that you have a chance to prove what a sexy, masculine, power-tool using man you really are.
As a side note, in every relationship I've had, I have been -without a doubt- the more mechanically capable of the pair. And well, it goes without saying that the men who couldn't change oil in their own car have all gone to the wayside...
_______
I'd really like to chime in on the topic of universal health care, but I'm afraid my viewpoint may be clouded. I put off having painfully impacted wisdom teeth removed until my dental coverage kicked in at work, as dropping three grand on the surgery was absolutely outside of my budget; and that was a grueling seven months without relief. With universal health care, I wouldn't have had to wait, at least not as long.
I met a lovely gent from Canada who thought the idea of "not being able to afford a doctor" was positively silly. Of course working folks who can't afford a doctor shouldn't be denied treatment, right?
But then... would I have had the high-quality doctor I had if I had universal coverage? I remember the state doctors, from when I was a kid and mother was too poor for anything. The state covered my siblings and I, but we had the lousiest doctors you can imagine. One particularly inept and cruel state dentist pulled out a tooth of mine (baby tooth that wouldn't break free on its own) without the benefit of pain relievers, and when I screamed (as the tooth was pulled from the jawbone, making a celery-snapping sound inside my head, and hurt just as bad as any other bone breaking) he told me to shut up.
That blows.
How could we guarantee that the quality of health care wouldn't plummet if the good doctors were no longer making good money?
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:54:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
programme
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:47:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
well....you got that going for ya
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:36:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:09:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm more worried about school buses than accidents
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we were coming back from a game once not too far and were on the highway and a man pulled up and stayed even with us to show a bus full of girls his erection. when the bus started screaming a collective ew the coach (male) attempted to get the plates but he'd sped off by then.
people are sick.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:19:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:07:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I would like to see some official stats as to how many accidents are caused yearly by people diddling themselves on the highways.
Damn pervs
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Take a look at a map of the US. Between Tulsa and State College Ps the only major hub you have is St Louis, and I don'e even know if I would call that a major hub. Most of those roads were long straigh and empty. going crazy from listening to nothing but god talk radio, or creed was much more dangerous than me rubbing a few out.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:15:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:03:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I was kidding, you're a fucking weirdo
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Hahahahahaha.
Didn't read it, Berty. Benefit of the doubt.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:09:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm more worried about school buses than accidents
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:07:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:53:38 CDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:42:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you know i've come to this point in life where all my vices have backfired on me.
I don't sleep much and I have an 86 mile ride to work so sometimes I'm a little tired while driving....nodding + the fucking NJ Turnpike do not mix. I don't smoke any more so I don't have that to do. I can't chew gum because I have TMJ and it gives me headaches. I don't drink coffee or what have you so once I've chewed off all my fingernails I've got nothing keeping my up.
I keep a roll of papertowels behind my seat...but yesterday noticed there were all the way back under the back seat and I couldn't reach them while I was driving so I was forced to jerk off in a sandwich baggie.
There is no limit to my headfuckery
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I drove from Tulsa Ok, to PSU by myself one time. Should have been a 20 hour trip, but a tractor trailer jacknifed from the oncoming traffic lane into mine about 12 hours into the trip and getting it cleared up, talking to police and cleaning the dirt he kicked up onto my windshield off took a while.
I jerked off about 6 times during that trip, and left genetic samples in socks across the western half of the US. but at least then i was alone on the road you perv.
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I would like to see some official stats as to how many accidents are caused yearly by people diddling themselves on the highways.
Damn pervs.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 14:03:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I was kidding, you're a fucking weirdo
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:53:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:42:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you know i've come to this point in life where all my vices have backfired on me.
I don't sleep much and I have an 86 mile ride to work so sometimes I'm a little tired while driving....nodding + the fucking NJ Turnpike do not mix. I don't smoke any more so I don't have that to do. I can't chew gum because I have TMJ and it gives me headaches. I don't drink coffee or what have you so once I've chewed off all my fingernails I've got nothing keeping my up.
I keep a roll of papertowels behind my seat...but yesterday noticed there were all the way back under the back seat and I couldn't reach them while I was driving so I was forced to jerk off in a sandwich baggie.
There is no limit to my headfuckery
---------------------
I drove from Tulsa Ok, to PSU by myself one time. Should have been a 20 hour trip, but a tractor trailer jacknifed from the oncoming traffic lane into mine about 12 hours into the trip and getting it cleared up, talking to police and cleaning the dirt he kicked up onto my windshield off took a while.
I jerked off about 6 times during that trip, and left genetic samples in socks across the western half of the US. but at least then i was alone on the road you perv.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:42:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you know i've come to this point in life where all my vices have backfired on me.
I don't sleep much and I have an 86 mile ride to work so sometimes I'm a little tired while driving....nodding + the fucking NJ Turnpike do not mix. I don't smoke any more so I don't have that to do. I can't chew gum because I have TMJ and it gives me headaches. I don't drink coffee or what have you so once I've chewed off all my fingernails I've got nothing keeping my up.
I keep a roll of papertowels behind my seat...but yesterday noticed there were all the way back under the back seat and I couldn't reach them while I was driving so I was forced to jerk off in a sandwich baggie.
There is no limit to my headfuckery
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:32:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:18:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
uh...projects and food stamps.
imperfect but an admittance by the govt that it is their responsibility.
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so if the govt pays money for something, it is then their responsibility? wouldn;t that mean we should be paying for Iraq?
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:25:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i respect your opinions and wish you well
fatamerican
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:24:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
listen here, oscar meyer, if i try to pick a fight with you, you damn well need to engage appropriately.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:23:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:55:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Why the hell shouldn't we try universal healthcare?
It isn't like our current system is working.
So what if some crack smoking bum gets a free appendectomy? That's ok if we can improve the quality of healthcare for everyone. I hated seeing my patients at the hospital stress out about how they were going to pay their doctor bills because their low paying, no benefits job that they worked at for 50+ hours a week barely paid them enough to keep the lights on.
Oh fuck it. Probably very few of you have actually worked in healthcare and seen the coverage disparities that exist in our current system.
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I would be ok with a bum getting a free appendectomy if it improved healthcare for everyone, however I fail to see how anyone who has experienced govt beuracracy would think that the govt could fix it.
I may have an overly pessemisic view of nat'l health care, or american govt effeciency, but I don;t see a nat'l universal system fixing it.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:22:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i can't, i may have made it up altogether...should have no bearing on you either way
plumper
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:21:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
oh yeah? well prove the validity of that statement, why don't you?
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:18:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
someone once said something along the lines of "most of the world's problems could be solved if we dropped our need to prove our point"
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:18:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
uh...projects and food stamps.
imperfect but an admittance by the govt that it is their responsibility.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:18:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:05:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've been waiting 13 weeks to have my wisdom teeth removed. It is a pain, but I went in with pain, they saw me immediately, x rayed me, gave me antibiotics and painkillers and said they would put me on the waiting list for surgery immediately.
The pain was gone within a few days.
I accept that having my wisdom teeth pulled (which is routine and non urgent) is of lower priority than other people's needs. Equally, if I had my leg broken, I'd expect to be seen and treated immediately.
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The mortality while waiting for coronary artery bypass surgery (CABG) in the UK is around 2.6%.
http://heart.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/81/6/564
"Waiting times in radiology sometimes range from weeks to months," says Dr Davies.
http://www.healthtechwire.com/Projour-Singleview.206+M5c7c7801b75.0.html
Those sound serious to me.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:17:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and also if i have to pay the government to exist i should be able to tell them what they're going to provide me with and what they're going to spend my money on. otherwise why should i pay for them?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:11:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:00:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:31:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
do you honestly believe that a) the government would ever do that or b) that people would truly accept everything handed to them and just cease to work? so basically if we have universal healthcare no one will ever work again, the government will have to dole out life on a silver platter or plastic cup depending on its budget, no one will ever earn their keep or contribute to society at large?
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No.
But I do believe calling healthcare a basic right blurs the line between rights and handouts. If you can define healthcare as a basic right, why not food and shelter? if the govt has to give one, why not the others?
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why isn't food and shelter a basic right? they're basic necessities for survival. we don't live in a society where it's feasible, or many cases even accepted or legal to hunt for your own food or gather off the land. we don't live in a society where you are allowed to build whatever you like whereever you want, everyone else be damned. we do not live in a society where, on the whole, the individual is allowed to provide for themselves with nature as the only benefactor.
we are not allowed to survive in the normal means of building your own shelter, making your own clothes, and hunting and gathering for food. and while some people manage to, me walking onto a farm and just taking what i need off a fruit tree is considered theft. me taking a bow and arrow and shooting a rabbit is in many places illegal. me cutting down a tree without a permit can be considered trespassing. me building a small shack where it is most reasonable for me can be called squatting and i can be forcefully removed.
healthcare is a basic right of humans. food and shelter is a basic right. being employed i personally consider a basic right and our government fails at that. no, no one should just be handed anything and everything to fit a whim. but nor should they be denied things that are necessary for their survival as a biological organism in this species.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:09:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:42:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you are saying that IF you work or are a minor or in the family of someone who works that they deserve healthcare. by fixing medicare i can only assume you mean people of a certain age. what about people in between? those that are not old, that are not children or minors, that do not have relatives who can provide for them, but cannot work or work full time. they get what? left out to die? killed at birth? recycled?
i read exactly what you said. you left a giant gap in coverage for a lot of people.
do you consider being helped by the society you belong to a basic human right or is everyone supposed to fend for themselves absolutely every step of the way?
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Sorry I will clarify, Medicare does provide for people who are declared to have a disability.
I think society helps people by educating them, and providing a structure where they can work, and do something with their life, not by giving handouts forever.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:39:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No Indo - you are against universal healthcare because you don't believe everyone has the right to life.
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That is even better than I am against universal healthcare because I want Apollo's girl to fill out pain in the ass forms. Whats next I am against universal healthcare becasue I hate puppies?
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:07:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I also think that any nurse or doctor who smokes should be sent to psychiatric care immediately. The fucking idiots.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:05:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've been waiting 13 weeks to have my wisdom teeth removed. It is a pain, but I went in with pain, they saw me immediately, x rayed me, gave me antibiotics and painkillers and said they would put me on the waiting list for surgery immediately.
The pain was gone within a few days.
I accept that having my wisdom teeth pulled (which is routine and non urgent) is of lower priority than other people's needs. Equally, if I had my leg broken, I'd expect to be seen and treated immediately.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:02:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"A current median wait of 175 days for routine surgery at Wythenshawe Hospital in Manchester, UK."
Don't know if that is the norm, but that does sound very bad to me (first link on google UK waiting list surgery).
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Sounds reasonably bad - but routine surgery includes things like having a mole removed. If it's urgent, you get seen more quickly. Why should you be seen more quickly just because you are impatient or rich?
We do have a private healthcare system incidentally. You get better service.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 13:00:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:31:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
do you honestly believe that a) the government would ever do that or b) that people would truly accept everything handed to them and just cease to work? so basically if we have universal healthcare no one will ever work again, the government will have to dole out life on a silver platter or plastic cup depending on its budget, no one will ever earn their keep or contribute to society at large?
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No.
But I do believe calling healthcare a basic right blurs the line between rights and handouts. If you can define healthcare as a basic right, why not food and shelter? if the govt has to give one, why not the others?
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:35:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No Indo, you still should be responsible and a contributor, but that doesn't mean that if someone says 'yes, we will care for you if you get sick' that everyone will suddenly be sick. Most people are decent you know.
I will support this with some points.
We have free health care at the point of access for all people in Britain.
The NHS is still running here and we don't have a plague of people draining it dry.
Unless you think Americans are more likely to be malingerers? Which I doubt.
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"A current median wait of 175 days for routine surgery at Wythenshawe Hospital in Manchester, UK."
Don't know if that is the norm, but that does sound very bad to me (first link on google UK waiting list surgery).
I don't think the average american will stop working, but I don't like the idea of giving it away. Once the govt is finincially responsible for your healthcare, it become irresponsible for them not to have a hand in what you can and cannot eat. Look at it this way. ONce they build a highway and are responsible for repair, wouldn't you want them to stop people from driving on it with snow tires and making it worse?
As far as malingerers being worse in the US, no but I would be pissed about illegal immigrants abusing the system. Once we have free healthcare the flood of illegals will undoubtedly speed up.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:59:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I asked with some obvious sarcasm if all americans were thatcherites. I in no way meant that they all were.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:55:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Why the hell shouldn't we try universal healthcare?
It isn't like our current system is working.
So what if some crack smoking bum gets a free appendectomy? That's ok if we can improve the quality of healthcare for everyone. I hated seeing my patients at the hospital stress out about how they were going to pay their doctor bills because their low paying, no benefits job that they worked at for 50+ hours a week barely paid them enough to keep the lights on.
Oh fuck it. Probably very few of you have actually worked in healthcare and seen the coverage disparities that exist in our current system.
And fuck you people for ASSuming all Americans are alike. Isn't the whole stereotyping Americans game a bit worn out by now?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:44:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:39:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Do they put something in the water in the UK making it impossible for you to discuss the merits of universal healthcare? Apollos argument was based on I am against it so I must be for spending more in Iraq. Yours is that I am against it so I want apollo's girl to face shitty paperwork BS, and must think the US system is perfect.
Grow up.
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No Indo - you are against universal healthcare because you don't believe everyone has the right to life.
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i wouldn't even say the right to life, i'd say the right not to suffer.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:42:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:38:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:20:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
indo, have a heart really. buy one, build one, steal one. do something to get yourself a soul.
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right after you buy a brain.
seriously try a little reading comprehension. i think any kid, or anyone with a fulltime job should have healthcare (and their family) and would be all for any plan that did that. i am for fixing medicare.
health care is not a basic human right. it would be great if there was unlimited healthcare and if it would even be possible to give everyone great treatment, but that isn't the case.
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you are saying that IF you work or are a minor or in the family of someone who works that they deserve healthcare. by fixing medicare i can only assume you mean people of a certain age. what about people in between? those that are not old, that are not children or minors, that do not have relatives who can provide for them, but cannot work or work full time. they get what? left out to die? killed at birth? recycled?
i read exactly what you said. you left a giant gap in coverage for a lot of people.
do you consider being helped by the society you belong to a basic human right or is everyone supposed to fend for themselves absolutely every step of the way?
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:39:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Do they put something in the water in the UK making it impossible for you to discuss the merits of universal healthcare? Apollos argument was based on I am against it so I must be for spending more in Iraq. Yours is that I am against it so I want apollo's girl to face shitty paperwork BS, and must think the US system is perfect.
Grow up.
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No Indo - you are against universal healthcare because you don't believe everyone has the right to life.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:38:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:20:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
indo, have a heart really. buy one, build one, steal one. do something to get yourself a soul.
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right after you buy a brain.
seriously try a little reading comprehension. i think any kid, or anyone with a fulltime job should have healthcare (and their family) and would be all for any plan that did that. i am for fixing medicare.
health care is not a basic human right. it would be great if there was unlimited healthcare and if it would even be possible to give everyone great treatment, but that isn't the case.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:24:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo - I hope that Apollo's women gets all the treatment she needs for as long as she needs it, and I hope that at no point does she have to go through a humiliating insurance procedure where they try and weasel out of it. I'm glad that I live in a civilisation that believes that people should be cared for and not left to rot.
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Do they put something in the water in the UK making it impossible for you to discuss the merits of universal healthcare? Apollos argument was based on I am against it so I must be for spending more in Iraq. Yours is that I am against it so I want apollo's girl to face shitty paperwork BS, and must think the US system is perfect.
Grow up.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:38:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
yeah
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:37:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Also I should be allowed to smoke crack cocaine and drive my car without wearing a seatbelt whenever I want.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:35:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There is distinction between a government providing a structure whithin which people can live out their lives, via the offering of services, maintaining industrial standards and such, and a government ordering you about.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:35:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No Indo, you still should be responsible and a contributor, but that doesn't mean that if someone says 'yes, we will care for you if you get sick' that everyone will suddenly be sick. Most people are decent you know.
I will support this with some points.
We have free health care at the point of access for all people in Britain.
Our health care is not bad - albeit not as brilliant as say Switzerland, but not bad. I can certainly go to the doctor and say 'doctor, I feel depressed or ill or anything' and I can be sure that i will be listened to and cared for within a reasonable time.
Now, I pay more % tax than you, but I still live. I'm reasonably well off. I may not up use my fair share - but I think that's fine, because if something terrible did happen, I'd be looked after.
The NHS is still running here and we don't have a plague of people draining it dry.
Unless you think Americans are more likely to be malingerers? Which I doubt.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:31:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:26:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:17:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nope; he's right Indo. Sorry.
Doesn't matter though, 'cause you've got other things you can say like "we do not pay ridiculous tax on stuff for healthcare many of us will not use and guns with which to euthanise ourselves should our luck fail" and "secular governments are for pussies".
They are both killer arguments.
-----------------------------
Oh he is right? I guess that is it then.
You won me over. I have absolutely no duty to work to feed or take care of myself. The govt should give me anything I need and tell me everything that is bad for me. Religion and religious observations have no place in public life (unless you are in a muslim area then we must avoid teaching things like the holocaust for fear of upsetting people).
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do you honestly believe that a) the government would ever do that or b) that people would truly accept everything handed to them and just cease to work? so basically if we have universal healthcare no one will ever work again, the government will have to dole out life on a silver platter or plastic cup depending on its budget, no one will ever earn their keep or contribute to society at large?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:26:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:17:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nope; he's right Indo. Sorry.
Doesn't matter though, 'cause you've got other things you can say like "we do not pay ridiculous tax on stuff for healthcare many of us will not use and guns with which to euthanise ourselves should our luck fail" and "secular governments are for pussies".
They are both killer arguments.
-----------------------------
Oh he is right? I guess that is it then.
You won me over. I have absolutely no duty to work to feed or take care of myself. The govt should give me anything I need and tell me everything that is bad for me. Religion and religious observations have no place in public life (unless you are in a muslim area then we must avoid teaching things like the holocaust for fear of upsetting people).
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:25:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:24:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Christ, is everyone in America a thatcherite?
-------
it's called a reagan republican here.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:25:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
actually it was recently discovered that most gun deaths ARE suicides. we do use them to euthanise ourselves.
---
Or attempts at Darwinism
One day, a man will be born who is immune to bullets! And then watch them commies run!
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:24:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I bet Indo thinks everyone is retarded or sick for thinking in that way. He's the only sane one.
Indo - I hope that Apollo's women gets all the treatment she needs for as long as she needs it, and I hope that at no point does she have to go through a humiliating insurance procedure where they try and weasel out of it. I'm glad that I live in a civilisation that believes that people should be cared for and not left to rot.
Christ, is everyone in America a thatcherite?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:21:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:17:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nope; he's right Indo. Sorry.
Doesn't matter though, 'cause you've got other things you can say like "we do not pay ridiculous tax on stuff for healthcare many of us will not use and guns with which to euthanise ourselves should our luck fail" and "secular governments are for pussies".
------
actually it was recently discovered that most gun deaths ARE suicides. we do use them to euthanise ourselves.
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:20:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
whoops.
Submitted by Linus (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:20:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep musing; this stuff is actually half interesting to read.
Makes use of this whole forum format we got going on.
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:20:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:02:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:58:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have to wash my hands after touching people I don't know, and while I know I'm just a little off for the compulsion, it is what it is.
-------------------------------------------
I find that strangely endearing. Like the whole world is dirty but some people, when you get to know them, become clean.
Must be a pain when you go to restruants or bars or though.
____________
Not so much, really, I just say "excuse me" a bit more often than some folk, and go for a quick wash.
I do sometimes panic when people I don't know try to hug me. That's a bit much, after all. For as unconventional as I might be in lifestyle and appearance, I am rather conservative on the subject of touch.
I don't know why, there's just something special about contact, almost sacred.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:20:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
indo, have a heart really. buy one, build one, steal one. do something to get yourself a soul.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:17:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nope; he's right Indo. Sorry.
Doesn't matter though, 'cause you've got other things you can say like "we do not pay ridiculous tax on stuff for healthcare many of us will not use and guns with which to euthanise ourselves should our luck fail" and "secular governments are for pussies".
They are both killer arguments.
Also you can always counter any bad thing anyone says about America ever by reminding them of Arby's chicken strips with BBQ/honey mustard sauce. Just thinking about that shit makes me want to eat untill I am morbidly obese.
Submitted by messmind (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:16:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:05:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know I may have mentioned this in a previous post, but the Dutch have mega social care. They actually look after their elderly in a proper, humane, manner!
There's always things to wish for, Berty. In recent years there have been some reforming (getting rid of working personel,that is) , and as it is, privatization of that part of the healthcare isn't going without some friction.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:10:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:35:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"It's like me saying there shouldn't be nukes and your response being 'well go and decommission them then' - there are some things that ONLY govts are big enough to do. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GOVTS."
No its nothing like that. You were just bragging the other day about how much money you make. If you really believed that all people deserve healthcare there is nothing stopping you from trying to make thta happen. Maybe you could only afford it for a few people, but you could do it. Dissmanlting nukes is a whole other story.
"Anyway, you're the type of American that proves Berty's point. You don't see why you should pay for a 'lazy bum's' healthcare but have no problem with billions being spent on Iraqi wastewater systems that we destroyed."
Brilliant deduction. I don't want universal healthcare so I must be for unlimited spending in Iraq and have no problem what so ever with how any money over there is spent.
"There is an issue in as much as how do you check that people are deserving of it? You can't. You just have to accept that universal healthcare free at point of care is a basic human right."
It isn't a basic human right. The govt doesn't have to give adults things. It is there to protect their rights and allow them to earn things for themselves. If the govt is forced to pick up the cost for my healthcare then it has a right to tell me what not to eat or drink. It has the right to say who does, or does not have kids.
"My bird's annual medication bill for MS for example is $290,000. That's JUST FOR THE DAILY JABS. Not counting the hundreds of thousands extra this year."
Do you think she would be getting the same level of care if more people were using the same limited number of doctors? Even if we pretended that universal healthcare wouldn't come with govt limiting how much doctors make (or artificially lowering it, if not a direct limit), there is no way they could up incentives to attract more doctors.
"But i'm never going to convince you, nor you me, so what's the point in this?"
The point is you are full of shit. You come in on your high horse and huge head making blanket accusations about ALL americans having zero moral authority when they won't all agree with something you think the govt should force them to do, even though you won't do it yourself.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:05:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know I may have mentioned this in a previous post, but the Dutch have mega social care. They actually look after their elderly in a proper, humane, manner!
Costs them about 33% of all their earnings though.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 12:02:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:58:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have to wash my hands after touching people I don't know, and while I know I'm just a little off for the compulsion, it is what it is.
-------------------------------------------
I find that strangely endearing. Like the whole world is dirty but some people, when you get to know them, become clean.
Must be a pain when you go to restruants or bars or though.
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:58:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
There are things I can do, and there are things I can't. I can stop in at BWI two weeks before Xmas and wrap presents for the kids dying of cancer who are "off to see Santa" on a 747 (that's really just being wheeled around the tarmac). I can stop in at the wildlife refuge on Thursdays and Saturdays and feed the little broken critters. I can hand a homeless guy a fiver, and even if he spends it on crack, at least his day went a little easier.
I can't clean up piss. I just can't do it.
I have to wash my hands after touching people I don't know, and while I know I'm just a little off for the compulsion, it is what it is.
Besides, I know four individuals who have worked in mental/elder care wards, and the only thing I can say for sure is that I hope to die before suffering the indignity of dementia or incontinence. Death is merciful when your body is failing.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:57:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hey apollo are you hiring?
Submitted by messmind (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:55:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+4 for great reviews.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:53:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:38:05 CDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Stop in to your local old folks home and volunteer to help for a day. Tell them that since you're unpaid you don't do the really nasty stuff like clean poo but you can help move the bedridden and spend time talking with some of the more lucid ones. You'll probably find that you go back for more, and that you develop a real sense of the value of a dignified exit from this life.
plus, sex on tap.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:53:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
What Apollo said
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:38:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Stop in to your local old folks home and volunteer to help for a day. Tell them that since you're unpaid you don't do the really nasty stuff like clean poo but you can help move the bedridden and spend time talking with some of the more lucid ones. You'll probably find that you go back for more, and that you develop a real sense of the value of a dignified exit from this life.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:35:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:54:57 CDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:47:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
no i'm not, it's a governmental issue.
I also provide healthcare for over 250 people when I am not mandated that I have to, it is somewhat of a competitive disadvantage.
So wind your neck in.
--------------
It isn't a govt issue. You either think people should pay money for strangers to get healthcare, or you don't. You say you are for it, but do nothing about it. You are a hypocrit, saying the govt should force people to do it doesn't change anything, it is either the right or wrong thing to do.
I doubt you own a business employing 250 people, but good on you if you do provide healthcare for them. Although it undoubtedly makes them more loyal and work harder.
I don't 'own' the business but it is a commercial decision that I make, and you are correct it wasn't an altruistic thing, I want low turnover, happy employees.
To clarify I do believe that the GOVT that wastes TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON POINTLESS WARS should pay for healthcare for all of its citizens, yes.
It's something that ONLY govts can do.
It's like me saying there shouldn't be nukes and your response being 'well go and decommission them then' - there are some things that ONLY govts are big enough to do. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GOVTS.
Anyway, you're the type of American that proves Berty's point. You don't see why you should pay for a 'lazy bum's' healthcare but have no problem with billions being spent on Iraqi wastewater systems that we destroyed.
For every 'drunken bum' getting healthcare there a 20 hardworking, walmart employees who can finally get some care.
I tell you what mate, even with earning at a good level, all it takes is a serious cancer like illness, MS, Parkinsons, to wipe out anyone's cash reserves. Most insurances max out after $2m or so in lifetime coverage. That is not much at all. My bird's annual medication bill for MS for example is $290,000. That's JUST FOR THE DAILY JABS. Not counting the hundreds of thousands extra this year.
There is an issue in as much as how do you check that people are deserving of it? You can't. You just have to accept that universal healthcare free at point of care is a basic human right.
Will some people abuse it? Sure. But that's the price you pay.
The rest of the civilised world has, why not you? But then the rest of the western world is grown up and rightly considers religion bollocks and ignores the nutjobs that you cunts pander to.
But i'm never going to convince you, nor you me, so what's the point in this?
Submitted by Nellypaal (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:29:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Too much use of "x, like, y people". What's wrong with saying "about"?
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:28:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:06:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Man, the only people in this life who aint'nt lazy are ROBOTS man! They have no sense of smell and are cold to the touch!
===========
I see you've met my wife.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:08:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:06:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Man, the only people in this life who aint'nt lazy are ROBOTS man! They have no sense of smell and are cold to the touch!
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http://www.robotmarketplace.com/video_oldglory_hi.html
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 11:06:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Man, the only people in this life who aint'nt lazy are ROBOTS man! They have no sense of smell and are cold to the touch!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:54:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:47:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
no i'm not, it's a governmental issue.
I also provide healthcare for over 250 people when I am not mandated that I have to, it is somewhat of a competitive disadvantage.
So wind your neck in.
--------------
It isn't a govt issue. You either think people should pay money for strangers to get healthcare, or you don't. You say you are for it, but do nothing about it. You are a hypocrit, saying the govt should force people to do it doesn't change anything, it is either the right or wrong thing to do.
I doubt you own a business employing 250 people, but good on you if you do provide healthcare for them. Although it undoubtedly makes them more loyal and work harder.
So shit in your cereal.
Submitted by BJ-theGreat (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:50:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I am a special case though as I have always suffered inordinatly from guilt because I am an extreemely lazy man.....
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At least you KNOW your are lazy.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:47:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 08:50:13 CDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:43:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
until americans as a whole demand that the outrage of their being no universal healthcare in 2008 in a rich western country is rectified then they have zero moral authority in my eyes.
--------------------
and anyone who thinks my hard earned money should be taken from me to be spent on surgery/medicine for a lazy drug addicted bum who has never worked a day in their life has zero moral authority in my eyes.
if you really feel so strongly about this, why don't you take your 300k a year go out and start paying insurance for people who don't work. because until you do that, not only do you have zero moral authority, you are also a hypocrit.
no i'm not, it's a governmental issue.
I also provide healthcare for over 250 people when I am not mandated that I have to, it is somewhat of a competitive disadvantage.
So wind your neck in.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:46:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:42:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:06:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
He said universal healthcare. That includes the bums. I am all for a plan that would get coverage for anyone working full time, and their family. I am for expanding, or at least fixing medicare. I am for a safety net if the "breadwinner" gets sick, and I think all children shoulc be covered. I am 100% against people who choose not to work getting covered.
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so fuck the disabled and no one ever retires?
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Medicare, although it is sometimes tough for me to swallow that people don't get enough coverage when people like Kaos get a stipend from it because he need special meds. although anytime you have a system, someone is going to screw it.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:42:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:06:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
He said universal healthcare. That includes the bums. I am all for a plan that would get coverage for anyone working full time, and their family. I am for expanding, or at least fixing medicare. I am for a safety net if the "breadwinner" gets sick, and I think all children shoulc be covered. I am 100% against people who choose not to work getting covered.
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so fuck the disabled and no one ever retires?
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:40:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i always read these offerings of berty's but rarely add to the comments and that's just not being fair to him and his rating. i could personally be contributing to the decline of his sense of self worth through my inaction.
i mean, these reviews and the accompanying ratings are our only means of showing our disapproval or gratitude for what has been lovingly offered by the poster. to read and NOT rate is absolutely a slap in the face.
i'd buy berty Arby's chicken strips with honey mustard dipping sauce any day.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:38:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i give to charity and i do volunteer now and then but i used to do a lot more. couple weekends i got a great sunburn doing some charity thingy. the sunburn event was because it sounded like fun. the former animal work was done because i like critters (not furries). other stuff was done because i just happened to be there. actually most stuff i do is just because i happen to be there. now i mostly just give stuff and money. i don't think it's mostly out of guilt but i bet some of it is. mostly it's just because it's there to do and i have no good reason not to.
i think lots of people are like that. if you're presented with the opportunity to do something and you have no good reason not to, you just do it. of course humans can rationalize any behavior or inaction.
i wouldn't ever work in that kind of environment. i have the wrong temperament and i highly doubt i'd be able to restrain myself if the residents started whacking at me, dementia or not.
Submitted by Yozz (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:22:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
My thoughts?
There is no spoon.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:21:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:11:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo, dude, thank you. Without you all of my arguments and moral positions would lie in ruins.
You are a one man socratic argument for all manner of terrible, terrible things.
------------
Your positions, at least your position in the comments does lie in ruins. You don't do shit for people but like to look down your nose at ohers because you feel like you should do something. I don't know if this is a humorous attempt at being Rob berg, but it is pathetic. I would say that someone who does feel sympathy for the elderly and does nothing is worse than someone who doesn't feel anything, at least they have a real reason not to do anything.
What terrible things might they be? If lack of universal healthcare realy is such a bad thing why aren't you chipping in your money to get it for people?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:11:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo, dude, thank you. Without you all of my arguments and moral positions would lie in ruins.
You are a one man socratic argument for all manner of terrible, terrible things.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:06:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:03:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo--
The lazy, drug addicted bum who hasn't worked a day in his life only makes up a small percentage of the general medical population.
I mean, I know what you're saying, we used to get disgusted at the ghetto/trailer park welfare queens with 6 kids from 6 different baby daddies, but we now have a very large and rapidly aging Baby Boomer population and Medicare just ain't cutting it anymore. That's who is going to be the largest group in need of healthcare.
Also, a big group is the working poor. These people are working and paying taxes, but either they're working very low paying jobs, or their employers don't offer healthcare benefits, or both. If the bread winner gets ill or has an accident, it usually means financial disaster.
-----------------
He said universal healthcare. That includes the bums. I am all for a plan that would get coverage for anyone working full time, and their family. I am for expanding, or at least fixing medicare. I am for a safety net if the "breadwinner" gets sick, and I think all children shoulc be covered. I am 100% against people who choose not to work getting covered.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:03:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo--
The lazy, drug addicted bum who hasn't worked a day in his life only makes up a small percentage of the general medical population.
I mean, I know what you're saying, we used to get disgusted at the ghetto/trailer park welfare queens with 6 kids from 6 different baby daddies, but we now have a very large and rapidly aging Baby Boomer population and Medicare just ain't cutting it anymore. That's who is going to be the largest group in need of healthcare.
Also, a big group is the working poor. These people are working and paying taxes, but either they're working very low paying jobs, or their employers don't offer healthcare benefits, or both. If the bread winner gets ill or has an accident, it usually means financial disaster.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:50:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:43:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
until americans as a whole demand that the outrage of their being no universal healthcare in 2008 in a rich western country is rectified then they have zero moral authority in my eyes.
--------------------
and anyone who thinks my hard earned money should be taken from me to be spent on surgery/medicine for a lazy drug addicted bum who has never worked a day in their life has zero moral authority in my eyes.
if you really feel so strongly about this, why don't you take your 300k a year go out and start paying insurance for people who don't work. because until you do that, not only do you have zero moral authority, you are also a hypocrit.
Submitted by Doodles (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:45:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:52:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't you ever think of the people you like in life getting old and frail? Or sick? Or even, you know, yourself?
Wait, sorry, you're an American. I forgot.
Americans are traditionally mega individualists. I have met lots of lovely Americans, for realz, but none of them were very much into that whole 'love thy neighbour' deal or big on compassion for folks they haven't at least given some manner of personality litmus test to.
That said, have you never felt a desire or duty to help out those who're struggling?
---
We aren't like that in the South.
Atleast the rural south.
The Midwest has some nice people too.
New England is awful when it comes to people
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:43:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 07:51:03 CDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:52:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Americans are traditionally mega individualists. I have met lots of lovely Americans, for realz, but none of them were very much into that whole 'love thy neighbour' deal or big on compassion for folks they haven't at least given some manner of personality litmus test to.
That said, have you never felt a desire or duty to help out those who're struggling?
-----------------
Americans give and volounteer for charities more than any other western country
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_mem_of_vol_org_cha-lifestyle-members-voluntary-organisations-charity
They also tend to donate more of their personal money to charities (although the argument that other western countries tend to pay more out of taxes play a role in that for some people).
I am curious where you met these Americans who weren't into loving thy neighbor? Were you perhaps out at a bar, tossing back beers? During that time what impression do you think they got of you towards volounteering for their fellow man? I mena this was a neat little story, but I doubt you have worked at a soup kitchen, or volounteerted at a canned food drive, etc.
until americans as a whole demand that the outrage of their being no universal healthcare in 2008 in a rich western country is rectified then they have zero moral authority in my eyes.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:33:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:02:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And a whole group of us spent the 4th of July weekend doing charity work with BACA (Bikers Against Child Abuse) and raised a lot of money instead of 'partying.'
But since we're Americans, we did it for selfish reasons I suppose.
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That is merely rebels rebelling against American Individualism. You rebel you.
Doubtless the government men in black are already on their way to take you to Guantanamo Bay for your seditious acts of generosity and compassion.
Submitted by Littlebint (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:21:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Whilst the story depressed me, it made me really want to give up my job and work with sick people."
--
Don't bother. Keep your job and look after the sick bastards here instead. It's win win!
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:10:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Maybe you even feel genuine compassion for your fellow man?
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I do indeed, which is why I open doors for little old ladies, and help my retired neighbors hook up their stereo system, and then turn away their offer of compensation.
I keep doing it because that's how I was raised, and I always ended up seeing a benefit to it, so that kinda reinforced the idea. For example, aforementioned elderly retired neighbors are now letting me link up with their fence, saving me almost $500.00.
On the negative side however, it's becoming harder to do, my fellow man is becoming disproportionally discompassionate.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 09:02:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And a whole group of us spent the 4th of July weekend doing charity work with BACA (Bikers Against Child Abuse) and raised a lot of money instead of 'partying.'
But since we're Americans, we did it for selfish reasons I suppose.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 08:58:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
jesus, my last post was filled with typo's....
And it looks like Australians beat the US in charity work, who knew?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2008-07-08 08:51:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:52:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Americans are traditionally mega individualists. I have met lots of lovely Americans, for realz, but none of them were very much into that whole 'love thy neighbour' deal or big on compassion for folks they haven't at least given some manner of personality litmus test to.
That said, have you never felt a desire or duty to help out those who're struggling?
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Americans give and volounteer for charities more than any other western country
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_mem_of_vol_org_cha-lifestyle-members-voluntary-organisations-charity
They also tend to donate more of their personal money to charities (although the argument that other western countries tend to pay more out of taxes play a role in that for some people).
I am curious where you met these Americans who weren't into loving thy neighbor? Were you perhaps out at a bar, tossing back beers? During that time what impression do you think they got of you towards volounteering for their fellow man? I mena this was a neat little story, but I doubt you have worked at a soup kitchen, or volounteerted at a canned food drive, etc.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2008-07-08 08:28:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I worked as a CNA (certified nurses aide) in nursing homes for 2 years after high school. I only received minimum wage, began developing back problems from lifting the residents, and spent each and every shift surrounded by the stench of urine and feces and the constant noise of demented residents screaming. Not to mention the ones who had become violent because of Alzheimer's. I was hit, scratched, had things thrown at me, and one vile old woman jabbed a finger in one of my eyes. She scratched my cornea and sent me to the eye doctor for treatment and a round of antibiotics to ward off a nasty eye infection.
Then, if that wasn't pleasant enough, when my grandmother developed Multi-Infarction-Induced-Dementia (similar to Alzheimer's) I helped my mother care for her for 3 years. During this time, my grandmother's condition started turning her violent and agitated. Her favorite thing was to strike me when I was trying to bathe her and wash and set her hair. She was completely incontinent but would rip off her Depends as soon as your back was turned. She would also pop up at 2:30 am and would not return to sleep. My family and I only were able to sleep in 2 or 3 hour increments.
So, I've done my sentence in hell and have no wish to return. Oh that's right, I'm an American so this sentiment comes from my selfish nature.
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2008-07-08 08:01:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
wow
to think, i got into a charity event to get into a grrls pants.
amazing what one will do for charity.
throwing money at something to bandaid it isn't always the solution.
but a tight ass being nice to me to make me actually do something
(help build a playground) will work every time.
every
damn
time
so give it up for charity, grrls!
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 07:59:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I was close.....http://www.ubersite.com/m/114694
different aspect of the same topic
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-08 07:57:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
didn't you already do a post about this?
like recently?
also
I refuse to believe that you like, speak this way with like all the likes and dudes and what have you....are you trying to appeal to the uber-youth?
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2008-07-08 07:40:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"I know that one less vodka cranberry tonight
And I could feed some foreign family for a fortnight
But I might just have one more
After all, what is vodka for?
Apart from making you wanna shag your best mate's wife
But dampening the guilt you feel about your perfect life.
Fuck the poor
I'm not pretending anymore
That I really give two shits about some kids in Bangalore
I'm more interested in footy
Than seeing the Solomons rebuilt
But I'll give you fifty bucks to take away my guilt."
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2008-07-08 07:36:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The comments below, about foreign aid and debt repayments and overpopulation... while they're all good points, they're too big for me. I can't do anything about them, so I just do little things where I can and try not to think about the big stuff. I volunteer at a few places, like the dog shelter and the halfway house for teens, and I visit the old folks' home a few times a month to read them books they probably can't follow and let them talk about when they were young and badass.
But it's a drop in the bucket. It's nothing. I can't fix the problems that lead to these situations needing help.
God I'm depressed now.
Submitted by myshit (user info) at 2008-07-08 07:25:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm fairly sure that there is never going to be a time when I don't think that you are odd Berty.
Submitted by PayMeLater (user info) at 2008-07-08 07:18:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Empathy is a nice quality to possess and one which prevents me from mentioning how retarded I find some of the comments below.
Submitted by orph (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:36:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well, if its feelings we're talking about, then I agree - something should definitely be done by someone.
Whether its shooting anyone useless, or caring for them, I don't think I'm the one to decide.
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:36:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well then I guess its a personal thing. I give money to worthwhile charities and that makes me feel like I've done something. Its a gesture that eases my conscious.
Some people, like you perhaps, might need to do something a little more hands-on to get that sweet relief from the guilt.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:34:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Of course they do Flash, but...
I dunno. I'm talking about stuff like feelings. Wanting to help. I mean I am as inactive and selfish as anyone but still...
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:27:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Berty, don't our taxes go towards things like state pensions, disability benefits, disabled parking, etc?
They might not, I'm just asking.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:26:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The thing is with people like that is that they are actually vulnerable people, the fact they do stuff involving off licenses and prams is because someone has thrown money at them rather than get them sorted out properly. I mean sorting people out is generally really hard.
It's like caring for the elderly; it seems nice and cool but the reality smells of piss and cannot remember why you are trying to help them. Also biting.
Does not mean people don't need help though.
Submitted by orph (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:14:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Perhaps I am being too cynical, but I prefer the term 'realist'
I think I may be suffering from Chugger overload - every day I walk out of Tower Hill station and am accosted by a line-up of different chuggers, all wanting to suck me dry for some cause or another.
I was over at a friends house last night, and saw some program on channel 4 I think, about this welsh unemployed alcoholic with 20 kids. They were one step up from animals. Full benefits, picked up his packet, and went straight to the boozer, gives his wife one of the kids in the pram, and then fills the pram with strongbow.
This pisses me off. And highlights another issue - stupid, worthless slackjaws usually have more children than their better offs. No wonder the general state of societal malaise and decline is the norm.
Thats the problem with freedom - you never know what you're freeing people for.
Humans = suck
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:12:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
When I get to about 70 im certainly going into an old peoples home, I cant wait. Im going to piss in the sink, fondle women and generally be as pervy as I can be, im going to have a massive collection of porn and viagra in my bedside cabinet and try to lure Kylie the nurse into my room with false disloctated hip cries.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:10:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay so forget about old folks and little un's for now, what about just your regular unhappy/damaged people? Like downs syndrome and emotional types? I mean they are hilarious, what with their handicapped faces and all, but does anyone feel any compulsion to help them?
I mean just who the hell is working in those care homes? There must be SOME sort of general feeling of compassion amongst people.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:07:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So yeah, EI likes to work with little people and Orph despises people in other countries because they are having WAY to much sex. I am clearly the only person who doesn't think old folks homes should consist of more than 2 burly blokes weilding lead pipes and standing next to a hole.
Why you gotta be so cynical Orph?
Submitted by tloshjohnson (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:06:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Circle jerk above, below and to teh sides.
This place sickens me more and more each day.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:04:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Untill my office is filled with naked chicks then I will say that the world is not overpopulated enough!
Submitted by orph (user info) at 2008-07-08 06:02:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm not american.
But yes, I help out my family and the girl's family, and her extended family back in vietnam.
However, having used to care about the poor etc in other countries or my own, I find myself less inclined to care nowdays.
Aid agencies are corrupt, people in less developed countries breeding like rabbits, exacberating any existing issues, the real reasons for poverty are overlooked. As long as developed countries take more in loan repayments than any aid amount that is sent - what is the point?
It may sound harsh, but the planet is overpopulated as it is.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:58:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 10:29:10 BST (#)
Ranking: 0
Radio 4 of course. It is the only talk radio in Britian.
So EI. You strike me as the kind of man who would work in a hospice or similar, on account of how you would use the word "wee" in a real life scenario. What are your thoughts on compassion, vocational work and all that other nonsense I asked in the post?
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I would never use the word wee.
I am a huge fan of vocational work, the intention behind doing it is varied though. If it's a cause I truly believe, that's close to my heart, such as cancer research or strokes in young people I would put my heart and soul into it and do whatevers necessary. However, there is vocational work I would do to further my own career through with no other thoughts behind it.
I have worked with children, some troubled ones too, well not before I got there...........but I loved that, mainly because Children are so honest and if you have a spot, they will damn well tell you!
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:52:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't you ever think of the people you like in life getting old and frail? Or sick? Or even, you know, yourself?
Wait, sorry, you're an American. I forgot.
Americans are traditionally mega individualists. I have met lots of lovely Americans, for realz, but none of them were very much into that whole 'love thy neighbour' deal or big on compassion for folks they haven't at least given some manner of personality litmus test to.
That said, have you never felt a desire or duty to help out those who're struggling?
Submitted by orph (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:39:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Charity begins at home, and I find it ends there as well.
I find the older I get, the more right-wing I am becoming.
I used to be somewhat of liberal bent, but this is slowly, yet surely disintegrating, coinciding with the increasing amount of people I meet.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:36:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
(* - feel free to substitute words like "nightclub", "Detroit" etc...)
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:35:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Giving to charity instead of doing good work is kind of like going hunting* and only pointing your finger at an animal and whispering "bang".
It just doesn't satisfy.
The big worry I have is that being a nurse or care worker means physical labour. Berty is not designed for physical labour, Berty is designed for drinking beer in the sunshine. One could even say that that is my optimal operational environment. Still... Perhaps that is just bollocks?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:29:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Radio 4 of course. It is the only talk radio in Britian.
So EI. You strike me as the kind of man who would work in a hospice or similar, on account of how you would use the word "wee" in a real life scenario. What are your thoughts on compassion, vocational work and all that other nonsense I asked in the post?
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:28:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hah! That comic is kewl.
I find myself in a similar boat to you, Berty, in that I want to help people but I am too lazy/busy/hygienic to go through with it. So, as a compromise, I give quite a bit of money to various charities.
I find it makes me feel good about myself, helps my fellow man and allows me to sit around in my pants, all at the same time.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:25:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
What radio station were you listening too?
Oh and my toenails need cutting.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-08 05:18:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This awesome comic is from www.nedroid.com
I heartily reccomend you check it out immediatly.