What India (and Pakistan, and America, and Israel) Should Do About the Mumbai Terrorists (1150 hits)
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Submitted by Razor <Jeremy_21117.at.hotmail.com> (View user info) at 2008-12-01 16:38:10 EST
Some people in Pakistan have been reading their Sun-Tzu.
If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
Here's the truth, as demonstrated by the terrorists again and again in the last decade:
The Powers That Be are easily unbalance and easily provoked by spectacular seeming events into foolishly wasting their resources on frivolous causes that turn popular sentiment against them.
The attacks of 9/11 pushed the United States into two wars in the Middle East.
The kidnapping of a few Israeli soldiers pushed Israel into a limited war against Lebanon which they could not have hoped to win and merely solidified public opinion in the Middle Eastern nations against the Israelis.
And now, with pressure from the United States and Pakistan actually having an effect on the operational capacity of their organization, Al Qaeda (in cooperation with a surrogate) has struck at India.
Here's what they are hoping will happen:
India reacts with anger and public outrage to the attacks in Mumbai. The terrorists are traced - easily - to Pakistan.
The Indian government masses troops on Pakistan's border, or in the wet dream version for Al Qaeda, actually declares war on Pakistan.
Regardless, the attention of Pakistan's military is diverted from the hunt for Al Qaeda and focused solely on the impending threat from India's government, allowing members of Al Qaeda to slip dragnets, regroup, resupply, communicate, and plan the next wave of attacks.
Here's what should happen:
The Prime Minister of India should issue a public statement saying that they understand the outrage the people of India feel at these attacks, and that they share their outrage. However, to accuse Pakistan of complicity and go to war, or even rattle sabres, would be to give the terrorists exactly what they want.
To that end, India will offer XX,000 troops to assist the American government, NATO's forces, and the Afghani people with the hunt for Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, as using their military to go after the enemy that actually struck them, and who will continue to strike if allowed to slip away will provide for peace and security for the people of India, Pakistan, and the world.
Due to the sensitive nature of relations between India and Pakistan, Indian troops will not at any point violate Pakistan's territorial sovereignty. If operations require venturing into Pakistan, that will be undertaken by American or NATO troops.
Barack Obama needs to point out to the world as loudly and unequivocally as possible that this sort of thing is exactly what the terrorists are trying to do with attacks like these - cause powerful governments to overreach, escalate tensions, and derail peace processes.
The best way to combat them is with level heads, an attempt to understand the tactical reasoning behind maneuvers such as this, and a call for the world to understand that these people are not the enemies of the United States, or India, or Israel, but a threat to every person in the world who dreams of a time when peace, stability, and an end to internecine conflict.
It may sound like a hippie pipe dream to some people, but don't forget that in less than a century Europe has moved from a torn, war ravaged continent with two millenia of internal conflict to a peaceful, prosperous region united under a common union for their mutual benefit.
Try telling someone in 1946 about the idea of the EU, and see what they would have said.
User Reviews
Submitted by PurplePunk (user info) at 2009-05-19 01:36:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I am not so sure about the whole war deal u hv mentioned here (thought of ) ... but as an indian i would just like to add to this is that all these attacks have just made the hatred between hindus and muslims grow to a higher level.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-02 14:16:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I solved the inconsistencies between quantum mechanics and relativity thanks to this thread, you crazy frog.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-02 13:11:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
razor, this is uber. there's nothing wrong with spicing up comments a bit. your media is less serious than that and it's not like we're gonna solve something here.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-02 09:43:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
hidden, don't bother to argue with Culo right now. I was all set to respond to his last round of crap when I saw the jew comment at the bottom, a sure sign he's just looking to bait and enjoy the resultant argument.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2008-12-02 09:26:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
You missed the whole part about Pakistan being completely unstable politically these days and the fact that India has pulled ahead in the traditional arms race sense. It would benifit India hugely to war with the Paki's this time around as most muslim freedom fighters are all tied up in Afganistan and Iraq. India still feels pretty slighted by the last conflict, and in the current decline of US dominance in that region specifically, India might be looking to bolster it's standing.
Submitted by nitty34 (user info) at 2008-12-02 07:17:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
+2 because that's just what B.O. should do.
-2 because he will never, ever do it.
Submitted by bromide (user info) at 2008-12-02 07:02:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Try telling someone in 1946 about the idea of the EU, and see what they would have said.
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Try telling that same person in 1944!
I dunno, your idea smacks of "oh yay al qaeda have attacked India, now we can get them to come fight alongside us"
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-02 04:45:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
but seriously, isn't anyone nervous about the economy (including canada)?
i mean who cares about brown people in asia.
THE ECONOMY IS GOING DOWN THE SHITTER! :-(
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-02 04:39:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i think i said INdirectly responsible quite a number of times. aren't we all? though in your case, based on past quotes, it's clear you had a hard on for invasion.
but again, you keep missing the point. i repeat, you just can't tell others what you couldn't do yourself. you is still general here, get that in your head and quit crying on purpose "YOU DON'T WHAT TRAGEDY FEELS LIKE BOO"
as for my hypocrisy, i'm sorry, but you're wrong. i don't care if the US wants to invade the entire world, unless it affects me. you do whatever you want. i started getting irritated when that american ambassador douche tried to bully my country into iraq. and when various boycott threats were made, often by individuals or businesses as our media reported btw. so after trying to force our hand into this little middle easter excursion of yours, you want us to believe you that you didn't want this. um, no, fuck you...generally :-D
oh and please, spare me the "problems of the world are ours". lol! cuz first, there are worse thing in the world right now than this attack. and second, when you don't understand the context in its entirety of a particular problem, you'll only make it worse, as we've seen so far in the so-called "war" on terror which is full of fail.
so it's better to stfu and mind your own business and let the local people deal with their problems, unless they ask for your help or your internet opinion which in both case, has not and will not happen.
obey
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2008-12-02 02:44:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
oh, now you're trying to say you weren't talking about me specifically? please. you made the statement that people like me were directly to blame for the Iraq war and then you tried to pull up quotes from me that you grossly misinterpreted where you claimed that i supported the war in the beginning. don't make me link to your quotes.
seriously, you're being completely hypocritical by saying Razor should have no opinion after what happened in India while in the same breath giving us your opinion about the US when you have absolutely no understanding of how it felt to have such a tragedy occur in your country and have a president you didn't vote for and disagree with 100% make the situation exponentially worse.
Razor said it best- people need to realize that the problems of the world are collectively the problems of the human race, despite nationality. it's ludicrous to say that Americans shouldn't have an opinion about tragedies that occur in foreign lands. if you are asking for Razor to "stfu", it's time to look in the mirror and tell yourself the same thing. i don't even know why i respond to the retarded shit you say. it's such obvious trolling.
Submitted by PepsiCoke (user info) at 2008-12-02 02:38:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Didn't read this post, but the comments are okay.
Submitted by PepsiCoke (user info) at 2008-12-02 02:38:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:20:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i have the solution to world peace: stfu
---------------
That's a pretty quintessential Caulaincourt quote.
Submitted by regal1975 (user info) at 2008-12-02 01:04:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Lets all pray that the leaders in India and Pakistan feel the same way. You nailed it.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 22:35:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The word coming in from the streets is that the organization that did this has close ties to Al-Qaeda. """
oh so now, you're an investigator. dude, just stop.
al-qaeda could be twelve times bigger and more powerful and it would still not be close to be a real existential threat to the US and it's ridiculously massive military.
quit being a jew. lol
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 22:32:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:59:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The jump to nuclear war is not all that much of a stretch, as:
===
remember the cold war? or all the terrorist acts all over the place during the 60's?
the only difference today is the 24/7 paranoid media perception.
stop being nosy. it's not gonna change anything and it makes you look arrogant.
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-12-01 21:04:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:18:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:58:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't necessarily disagree, but the organization that did this is probably purely Pakistani and, while likely in sympathy with Al Quaeda, probably is a distinct group with its own goals and inspiration. I also wonder about practical things like what the Afghanis would think of having Hindu Indians on their land--they tend to view non-Abrahamic, polytheistic religions as particularly strange. But it would be good if such a dramatic thing could be pulled off.
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The word coming in from the streets is that the organization that did this has close ties to Al-Qaeda.
===================
Fair enough, let's see anyway. I think it is a good idea you have; I just think there may be practical issues that stop all that from happenning.
And piss off, Caul.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2008-12-01 20:13:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Worth reading. Therefore, +2. Not much worth reading of late, you see. And Frank's getting laid, and I'm not. Frank's getting laid, and I'm not. I'm not whining, exactly. It's just weird, and I'm trying to cope. I have nothing else to add to this discussion.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2008-12-01 20:06:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
must i constantly remind you that it's good business to: escalate Escalate ESCALATE!
i mean every country in the entire fucking world needs it's own homeland security bristling with new and improved toys in the hands of wanna-be warriors scurrying around in testosterone filled clouds as they chase these inconsequential little pests
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:59:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The jump to nuclear war is not all that much of a stretch, as:
1. India and Pakistan are both nuclear armed nations
2. The Pakistani gov't is not the most stable.
3. India and Pakistan have fought four wars. Four. Recently. But they didn't have nukes when the last one broke out.
Also, India totally cares what I think. I was talking to India on the phone and India was all like "what should I do?" and I was all like "chillax, country!"
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:39:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
later fellas. i'm going to the gym.
i can't believe i'm daring to go outside after what happened in Mumbai :-O
http://nuclearpwned.ytmnd.com/
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:34:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
>> how is a few of gunmen"""
lol, ESL
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:32:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:17:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Let's assume for the moment that you were right (you aren't) about me being not level-headed after 9/11 and being a war monger. """
>> i'm not talking about you personally. i'm talking about your country. maybe it was just the evil govt, who cares? the US still overreacted and you can't expect other nations, especially in that area of the world, to do what you couldn't do.
Should I learn from the error of my ways or should I just go on repeating the same mistakes endlessly? """
>> i didn't say that. but it usually starts by showing the example. if you think others will do you couldn't, you're living in a dream. read that ghandi quote on the uberboard.
I specifically pointed out in my post how the reactions of America and Israel to "spectacular" terrorist moves this decade have played right into the hands of those who perpetrated the attacks, and urged India not to make the same mistake. """
>> i'm sure india cares what you think.
As for your nosy Americans comment, if you take a moment and ignore the complete and utter hypocrisy of such a statement coming out of your mouth, I'll ask you this. """
>> unlike you, i'm not dictating what policy americans should or should not pursue. i just want you, as an individual, to stfu. difference.
When are people going to realize that the problems of the world are everyone's problems in this day and age? Our tanking economy is affecting people all over the world, including your precious Canada, and quite frankly I don't want to see a goddamned nuclear war, because my kids will be breathing in the fallout no matter where the bombs are detonated. """
>> how is a few of gunmen shooting a couple of hundred people in a country of +1 billion affecting you? had the media ignored this story, it wouldn't have changed shit in your sheltered life. and how do you leap from this relatively small attack to nuclear war? that's some great fearmongering. i'm suprised the v-tech massacre didn't lead to WWIII!!
i'm sure your kids will be all right. if you worry about your job instead of this shit that is.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:20:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:58:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
the hypocrisy in that comment is delightful. this is from the guy who can't stop making comments about the US and he's telling you to mind your own business. classic Caul. i guess he thinks you're not supposed to care what happens outside of our borders. afterall, you're just an American, not a human being.
also, i'm still trying to figure out who "you" is. it seems like he's accusing you personally for the Iraq war. he's also said i'm directly to blame even though i opposed it from the very start. seriously, how much more ridiculous can he be?
here's a little food for thought, Caul- how do you think Canadians would react if your largest city was attacked by terrorists and the assault produced thousands of deaths and seriously impacted your economy? Canada wouldn't go to war like the US did, but that's because your tiny population doesn't produce enough soldiers to have the capability to go to war. Canada would be BEGGING the US to help them get revenge.
===
stop wandering.
my point here is if the US collectively (NOT YOU PERSONALLY HIDDEN, RELAX) couldn't keep a cool head, why should others do?
i don't claim that canadians would be any better. perhaps the majority of our population would cry for war like retards over a few assplosions. now if you think canada would react this way, why should india and pakistan do differently?
don't you think it's a little arrogant to expect of others what you can't even do yourself. "you" is general here...don't cry, i'm not talking directly to you. i love having to specify that with you, you're so sensitive. reminds me of our time together when you would weep cuz i pulled out too fast.
anyway, wouldn't it be nice to spend a day without some Internet General acting like he's the one calling the shots from his comfy computer chair on who should do what and when?
even with markets dropping around 8% just today, there are still people wagging their fingers at nations halfway around the world. unbelievable.
i have the solution to world peace: stfu
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:18:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:58:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't necessarily disagree, but the organization that did this is probably purely Pakistani and, while likely in sympathy with Al Quaeda, probably is a distinct group with its own goals and inspiration. I also wonder about practical things like what the Afghanis would think of having Hindu Indians on their land--they tend to view non-Abrahamic, polytheistic religions as particularly strange. But it would be good if such a dramatic thing could be pulled off.
-----------------------------------------
The word coming in from the streets is that the organization that did this has close ties to Al-Qaeda.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:17:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:27:04 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
were you that level-headed after 9/11 or even prior to the iraq war? i'd say you weren't, even though that's pretty the much the same exact approach the world expected from the US.
preach by example, eh?
now stop being a nosy americans and mind your own business.
you have a tanking economy to care about.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you always such a moron Alain or do you just play one on Ubersite?
Let's assume for the moment that you were right (you aren't) about me being not level-headed after 9/11 and being a war monger.
Should I learn from the error of my ways or should I just go on repeating the same mistakes endlessly?
I specifically pointed out in my post how the reactions of America and Israel to "spectacular" terrorist moves this decade have played right into the hands of those who perpetrated the attacks, and urged India not to make the same mistake.
As for your nosy Americans comment, if you take a moment and ignore the complete and utter hypocrisy of such a statement coming out of your mouth, I'll ask you this.
When are people going to realize that the problems of the world are everyone's problems in this day and age? Our tanking economy is affecting people all over the world, including your precious Canada, and quite frankly I don't want to see a goddamned nuclear war, because my kids will be breathing in the fallout no matter where the bombs are detonated.
So, in conclusion, owned.
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2008-12-01 19:03:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
oooh the Hidden/Caul debate might just be better than the show i'm watching. <gets comfy in the chair>
In other news it's a fucking blizzard outside my window :(
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:58:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:27:04 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
were you that level-headed after 9/11 or even prior to the iraq war? i'd say you weren't, even though that's pretty the much the same exact approach the world expected from the US.
preach by example, eh?
now stop being a nosy americans and mind your own business.
================================================================
the hypocrisy in that comment is delightful. this is from the guy who can't stop making comments about the US and he's telling you to mind your own business. classic Caul. i guess he thinks you're not supposed to care what happens outside of our borders. afterall, you're just an American, not a human being.
also, i'm still trying to figure out who "you" is. it seems like he's accusing you personally for the Iraq war. he's also said i'm directly to blame even though i opposed it from the very start. seriously, how much more ridiculous can he be?
here's a little food for thought, Caul- how do you think Canadians would react if your largest city was attacked by terrorists and the assault produced thousands of deaths and seriously impacted your economy? Canada wouldn't go to war like the US did, but that's because your tiny population doesn't produce enough soldiers to have the capability to go to war. Canada would be BEGGING the US to help them get revenge.
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:49:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
India won't pledge troops to help in Afghanistan because their domestic force is ridiculously small. I think it was somewhere around 37,000 troops. Out of a country with over one billion people. They're going to work on their reaction time for tragedies (which they should have done after that series of earthquakes) because the death toll would have been a lot smaller had it not taken them nine hours to respond in the first place.
I was listening to some interviews of Indian citizens on NPR today. There's a whole lot of differing opinion on what should happen, but there was a lot of rational thought on display as well. A lot of Indians are going to want blood, but let's hope that they don't get it.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:31:05 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
and it's funny you'd expect level headed reaction from dirt poor unstable countries while not looking back and asking yourself why the US, a supposedly civilized nation and beacon of freedom couldn't do that.
but hey, you elected a black guy, so i guess it cancels it out, right?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:27:04 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
were you that level-headed after 9/11 or even prior to the iraq war? i'd say you weren't, even though that's pretty the much the same exact approach the world expected from the US.
preach by example, eh?
now stop being a nosy americans and mind your own business.
you have a tanking economy to care about.
Submitted by SilvrWolf (user info) at 2008-12-01 18:17:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Silly fucking hippy, shut your hole.
That idea makes sense and we'll have none of that business around here.
Go hug a tree, granola guy.
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:58:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't necessarily disagree, but the organization that did this is probably purely Pakistani and, while likely in sympathy with Al Quaeda, probably is a distinct group with its own goals and inspiration. I also wonder about practical things like what the Afghanis would think of having Hindu Indians on their land--they tend to view non-Abrahamic, polytheistic religions as particularly strange. But it would be good if such a dramatic thing could be pulled off.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:43:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i mean christ, besides tibet, EVEN CHINA DOESN'T DO THIS SHIT!
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:43:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
Yeah, That about sums up most of the jackholes around this website. They must read that too :)
good post and I tend to agree with inion a bit.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:39:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
how about we just make all the muslims that don't pull this crap manage their own shit or we handle it for them. they're fast approaching the point where the rest of the human species is going to decidee that it's better to cull the herd than put everyone in danger. i mean who attacks india? india's the place where the rest of asia goes when they need political asylum, including psychotic muslims and they blew up the only people that would've really had their back outside of the guys on their home turf.
so here it is fundy muslims, handle your people or the rest of the world will start doing it for you. and stop blowing up your damn protectors you asshats.
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:36:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:28:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Do you still write fiction or short stories around here.
God i used to love your ubermadness entries.
The one that won back in the day is probably still my favorite short story ever read here.
Everyone says i need to check out this bickerstaff fella too.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2008-12-01 17:03:16 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Well I don't care about Mumbai
ROCK ROCK, ROCK AND ROLL HIGH SCHOOL
Mumbai's not where I want to be
ROCK ROCK, ROCK AND ROLL HIGH SCHOOL
I just wanna have some kicks
I just wanna get some chicks
ROCK ROCK, ROCK ROCK, ROCK AND ROLL HIGH SCHOOL
Submitted by TooMuchMan (user info) at 2008-12-01 16:50:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm sayin', bro!
Submitted by sage104 (user info) at 2008-12-01 16:49:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I didnt read it...twas far too long and political-like.
Have some points anyway, just 'cause I'm in one of my more "manic" moods (the latter was for you, Rob). 8-)
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2008-12-01 16:42:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
YEAH.
Make it so.