EFF: Obama's DOJ worse than under Bush (575 hits)
Category: Computers & InternetRating: -0.6 on 35 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (View user info) at 2009-04-09 19:31:41 EDT
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush
excerpted from above link: --> "...they argued, exactly as the Bush Administration did on countless occasions, that the state secrets privilege requires the court to dismiss the issue out of hand. They argue that simply allowing the case to continue "would cause exceptionally grave harm to national security." As in the past, this is a blatant ploy to dismiss the litigation without allowing the courts to consider the evidence.
It's an especially disappointing argument to hear from the Obama Administration. As a candidate, Senator Obama lamented that the Bush Administration "invoked a legal tool known as the 'state secrets' privilege more than any other previous administration to get cases thrown out of civil court." He was right then, and we're dismayed that he and his team seem to have forgotten.
Sad as that is, it's the Department Of Justice's second argument that is the most pernicious. The DOJ claims that the U.S. Government is completely immune from litigation for illegal spying — that the Government can never be sued for surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes.
This is a radical assertion that is utterly unprecedented. No one — not the White House, not the Justice Department, not any member of Congress, and not the Bush Administration — has ever interpreted the law this way."
and
"...Again, the gulf between Candidate Obama and President Obama is striking. As a candidate, Obama ran promising a new era of government transparency and accountability, an end to the Bush DOJ's radical theories of executive power, and reform of the PATRIOT Act. But, this week, Obama's own Department Of Justice has argued that, under the PATRIOT Act, the government shall be entirely unaccountable for surveilling Americans in violation of its own laws...."
User Reviews
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2009-04-17 02:17:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
HEY!
This is Sfagnum's latest alter!
Submitted by Judgement (user info) at 2009-04-13 16:18:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-11 03:13:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This is shweet! The Nuremburg defense: <german accent> "I only did as I vas told. I vas merely a trool in the hands of der fuhrer! Sig Heil!"</german accent>
This is from the DOJ website:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mission Statement
To enforce the law and defend the interests of the United States according to the law; to ensure public safety against threats foreign and domestic; to provide federal leadership in preventing and controlling crime; to seek just punishment for those guilty of unlawful behavior; and to ensure fair and impartial administration of justice for all Americans.
....
In 1870, after the post-Civil War increase in the amount of litigation involving the United States necessitated the very expensive retention of a large number of private attorneys to handle the workload, a concerned Congress passed the Act to Establish the Department of Justice, ch. 150, 16 Stat. 162 (1870) setting it up as "an executive department of the government of the United States" with the Attorney General as its head.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The DOJ seems to be labouring under the misapprehension that it IS a department of the executive branch of the United States Government.
It's not the ENTIRE government, just the bit of the Executive branch responsible for enforcing _the law_. A lawyer might not see the irony here, 'cause the average ambulance chaser considers pretty much any dodge to be a fair argument before the courts. Avocato diavoli. I'm pleased you place such faith in the judiciary & I would agree that they are pretty much the last bastion of freedom, what with the executive being obsessed with extending its prerogatives at the expense of both Legislative & judiciary, the legislative branch voted the Patriot acts into place so can they be the repository of your sacred trust? So the Judiciary is pretty much all you have to depend on. And who exactly has been stacking the supreme court for the last 8 years?
In any event, the very fact that the EFF has declared the Obama DOJ to be worse than the Bush DOJ is telling. The erosion of your civil rights is proceeding, will procede. It's Ironic as hell to see Obama's govenrment defending the demonized Bush government on the one single issue which was the rallying point for most of the crossover vote against the "neocons".
As I've said already, ready the asstroglide
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-04-10 23:44:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OK, the DOJ isn't the Gov't. The Attorney General is appointed by the President, but strictly speaking, the DOJ are just government lawyer employees. You're trying to say that these lawyers are actually the Gov't and that is like trying to say the JAG lawyers are the Army, when they just work in and for the Army.
These lawyers are making a retarded move for dismissal, but at this point that's all this is. Have you bothered to read the motion? There is no presidence set for this dismissal, and odds are extremely high that the Supreme Court which IS the gov't will deny it under these terms. Is it a shitty move on the part of the lawyers? Yes and nobody would ever argue otherwise. Now, if the Judicial branch allows this to happen, then we have serious problems. Then we'll need to start worrying.
I'd honestly need to read all the documents filed in this case to make an informed decision, and I've admittedly not done that, but by reading the motion for dismissal I've no problem trusting the judicial system to deny this motion. Lawyers will be lawyers and the law will run it's course. It's unconstitutional for the government to impinge on the right of free speech and the Judicial system's #1 job is to make sure that laws passed do not do this. I don't need to remind anybody that the Patriot Act, which is the law that made it possible to wire tap without a warrant was Bush's baby, not Obama's.
The point I think that you missed in all of this is that the warrantless wire taps are not against the law, technically speaking. The Patriot Act supports this entirely. The Patriot Act is bullshit, so don't think for a second that I support it. But, it is a law that was passed through congress. Now, we need the Judicial system to decide that the law is unconstitutional. That's not the grounds it appears these guys are sueing on.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-04-10 22:47:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-04-09 22:31:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I've been kinda upset with the guy since he and congress raised taxes on cigarettes again.
I'm with you skrap. Can I be Minister of Soul?
-----
As if you even have to ask. Just like Charley is a tuna and a loser at baseball and a murderous cult leader, you are Minister of Soul.
Submitted by Ducky (user info) at 2009-04-10 22:29:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No Comment
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-04-10 21:08:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-04-10 21:06:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Obama just immunized the interrogators in the furtive CIA holding facilities from prosecution.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-04-10 21:02:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Gore Vidal's on Bill Maher's HBO show tonight. Speaking of which, where's my Hell's Angels show?
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 20:44:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes, Yes and Yes.
Certainly in the realm of personal privacy & wiretapping, making the argument that the Government can't be sued for anything it does in violation of the law which is supposed to be the ultimate arbiter in the American system, yes that makes him 10x worse.
Bushites seized power unconstitutionally, but they didn't argue that the constitution itself is invalid. What the DOJ under Obama is arguing is pernicious in the extreme. Once you cede the right to ask questions or sue the government for unlawfull behaviour, you have no recourse left other than open rebellion. Not that I think that the Bush administration wouldn't have done the same thing given enough time, but they didn't and Obama did.
If this load of dingos kidneys establishes a precedent, you can be sure that eventually you won't be able to challenge election results in court, much less habeas corpus which is at present a legal fiction in the land of the free.
Change you can believe in can eventually mean change you can do nothing about.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-04-10 20:22:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Do you know what the DOJ is and what it does? I'm asking because your responses make me think that you don't. Also, who decided that it was "orders of magnitude" worse? Some random ass website? Do you know what an order of magnitude is? It's a power of ten. Do you seriously imagine that Obama is Bush^10?
STFU
Submitted by Spam (user info) at 2009-04-10 19:51:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Blame Redskies
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 19:38:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=71b_1239387532
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 19:22:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You must be a true believer. That's helpful when dealing with reality you don't like.
After all the grievous damage to your rights done by the DOJ under Bush, after the supposed revolutionary change, inspired speeches about new leadership,etc, the Obama DOJ is judged worse than the Bush DOJ by the EFF.
The closest analogy I can think of right now would be Rosa Parks declaring publicly that things were better under apartheid & quietly going to the back of the bus.
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2009-04-10 19:11:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't think I will need asstroglide (sic) anytime soon since your inarticulate response is not terribly impactful (pun intended). Yes, Biden came around after running against Obama for quite some time and after Obama was already winning. Big deal, Plato, he wanted to be VP. I already said I agree with the EFF thing, although the Bush DOJ was a screaming POS itself. I am not sure what "Obama sell his momma for a mess of potage" means but I will look out for it. Really carefully.
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 19:07:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
a swing and a miss. But at least you're trying.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2009-04-10 19:03:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Maybe JohnnyBdumb = Caul = No1has dis??
:D
Stupidity reveals all. . . . .
P.S. Doan ju be worryin' 'bout ussins chere in 'melica, chump. . . .
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2009-04-10 19:00:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Then versus than, Johnny. Learn them.
:D
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 18:54:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
should have been "Especially tasty is the fact that his DOJ policies are judged worse by an order of magnitude then the corrupt Bush DOJ By the EFF. I feel privileged to not be a citizen of your country. I hope you brought plenty of asstroglide, you're going to be feeling this for a while."
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 18:49:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am dumb. That must explain the facts, like the fact that Joe Biden supported Obama right along with the rest of the Democrat leadership. The Democrat leadership made a choice to support someone who was all about potential and image, not about experience. I don't think it would have made much difference to the policies since your pres is a figurehead anyway, but a choice was made & now you have the privileged of observing Obama sell his momma for a mess of potage. Especially tasty is the fact that his DOJ policies are judged worse by an order of magnitude then the corrupt Bush DOJ. I feel privileged to not be a citizen of your country. I hope you brought plenty of asstroglide, you're going to be feeling this for a while.
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2009-04-10 18:09:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 17:16:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so much for "change we can believe in". Personally I thought that Clinton was a better candidate. Pity she's not a nigger, she'd have won & you could be relatively certain that she wasn't about to be educated into the job at your expense.The Dems shit on the Clinton legacy in their hurry to get back into power That's politics for you.
=========================================
You do be dumb! I am fairly disgusted with the secrecy issues detailed by EFF in the current administration, but Clinton (nor MacCain) would hardly have done it differently. "Pity she's not a nigger" you redneck moron, since when has that helped! It is not an affirmative action hire, he got a shitload more votes than the other guy and the 13% black poplulation that always votes Democrat anyway could have harldy made such a big difference. This despite the Democrat party bigwigs being behind Clinton in the primaries for most of it. She voted for the war; if she had not, she would have won the primary and then the Presidency. What does Obama's skin color have to do with that vote, you racist dumbass?
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2009-04-10 18:08:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh. My. Gosh.
A politician lied to us?!
Noooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2009-04-10 17:34:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-04-09 20:11:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
This is a typical example of the ingorance of a candidate being relaced by the knowledge of the officeholder.
Look at the pictures of Obama entering the White House for his first post-election meeting with Bush: smiling, happy, waving to the crowd. Now compare the pictures of him leaving that meeting: ashen, sober, not smiling, walked straight to the limo. There is shit going on that he had no idea about and it is very, very clear that he's simply not equipped to handle it.
I only hope that there is someone on his staff that can deal with the real world until November 2010.
====================
You know fuking engineers can't spel.
I don't think it's an issue of Obama not being equipped to handle it, but rather the idea of him not knowing everything going on in the background. Just like you said above. Now, he has to deal with pirates, escalating unemployment, etc. Think about Truman when he took office. BAM! Yo, dude, we gots a killer bomb, and YOU make the decision! There is always shit behind the curtain.
Submitted by johnny.b.dumb (user info) at 2009-04-10 17:16:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so much for "change we can believe in". Personally I thought that Clinton was a better candidate. Pity she's not a nigger, she'd have won & you could be relatively certain that she wasn't about to be educated into the job at your expense.The Dems shit on the Clinton legacy in their hurry to get back into power That's politics for you.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-04-10 17:10:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
IT'S ALL ABOUT ME, SANDMAN!
Submitted by RoadSong (user info) at 2009-04-10 16:23:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-04-09 17:28:01 PDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In Florida there is what's referred to as "Sovereign Immunity". No matter what any State ot Local government does wrong or how obvious it is that what they did was wrong or how horribly injured/dead the person(s) was/were that suffered because of it, they cannot be held liable for more that $100,000. For perspective, that's about what it costs to replace a decent car and fix a broken leg after a crash.
I think I'll start my own country. Who's with me?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think all the best islands with waterfalls are already taken.
All presidents are puppets. I wonder WHO pulls the strings?
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-04-10 14:43:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
We'll see how this plays out, but Obama is still better than the alternative.
Lungy, I'm upset about the cig tax too, but we can't have our cake and eat it too. We want the Gov't to balance the budget and pay off the debt, then we have to give them some money. I'd rather it be taxes on stuff like my Marlboro lights, rather than my paycheck, because I can ultimately quit smoking if it gets to be to much.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-04-10 13:53:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Obama's presidency is proof that people would rather be told a happy lie than be told the ugly truth.
Welcome to The Matrix.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-04-09 22:31:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I've been kinda upset with the guy since he and congress raised taxes on cigarettes again.
I'm with you skrap. Can I be Minister of Soul?
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-04-09 21:16:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-04-09 20:28:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In Florida there is what's referred to as "Sovereign Immunity". No matter what any State ot Local government does wrong or how obvious it is that what they did was wrong or how horribly injured/dead the person(s) was/were that suffered because of it, they cannot be held liable for more that $100,000. For perspective, that's about what it costs to replace a decent car and fix a broken leg after a crash.
I think I'll start my own country. Who's with me?
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2009-04-09 20:18:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's fact. The government can only be sued when it allows itself to be sued.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-04-09 20:17:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"ingorance"? How goddamn pathetic is THAT?
IGNORANCE of the candidate. That's what I meant.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-04-09 20:11:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
This is a typical example of the ingorance of a candidate being relaced by the knowledge of the officeholder.
Look at the pictures of Obama entering the White House for his first post-election meeting with Bush: smiling, happy, waving to the crowd. Now compare the pictures of him leaving that meeting: ashen, sober, not smiling, walked straight to the limo. There is shit going on that he had no idea about and it is very, very clear that he's simply not equipped to handle it.
I only hope that there is someone on his staff that can deal with the real world until November 2010.
Submitted by captainrads (user info) at 2009-04-09 20:00:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Who couldn't see that coming? Candidates always lie...