I Find Your Lack Of Faith...Disturbing. (1685 hits)
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Submitted by FALLEN (View user info) at 2009-05-07 11:22:06 EDT
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
Admiral Motti: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fortress...
[Vader makes a pinching motion and Motti starts choking]
Darth Vader: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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This is not a Star Wars post, so keep reading.
I've watched you for some time, Uber, and I have to ask.
What's with many of you and God?
Religion is a theme that pops up from time to time here and when it does the comments will range from a matter-of -fact dismissal of a "god" to outright hostility. I have used religious themes in many of my posts and others have too. But I don't have hostility toward my source material. One of my favorite writers here has loads of posts chock full of angels and demons but his comments are down right angry when it comes to a personified creator.
Even passing comments are made by many users "there is no God", "that's not real", spoken with the same tone as the sky is blue or water is wet.
I'm not talking about one religion or another. Religions are groups of people and people do dick things in the name of their beliefs. I agree with you for every good thing an organized religion does it seems that there a two shitty things that they do.
People are flawed.
My question is about God. I'm not hung up on what name you want to call him (or her). I've argued with logical intellectuals that are quick to dismiss on scientific reasons and they are just as thickheaded as the far right zealots that blindly believe anything spoken from a pulpit. I understand the agnostic point of view, you're not sure. That's cool.
I'm not a saint; did you think I named myself Fallen because I'm an Evanescence fan?
And I'm not here to convert you. This is Ubersite; I expect a level of depravity.
I'm just curious why so many want to turn away from a concept of a creator.
Did you have shitty lives or touched as a kids?
What's going on here?
User Reviews
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2009-05-11 14:47:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
talking dirty will get you nowhere!
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-11 14:39:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I DID have the swine flu and God healed me and said to tell you all that you were sinners.
SINNERS!!!!!!
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2009-05-11 13:17:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
does this mean you didnt come down with swine flu?
any chance it's still incubating?
<3
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2009-05-11 10:52:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-05-11 08:43:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Three of my OWN posts on most heated and I spawned this many http://www.ubersite.com/u/orphelia/l/uberotica2008
so in your face FALLEN!
:)
ps Religion is too easy, obvious heat.
I'd like to see you post about squirrels and heat that up. Bitch.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2009-05-10 17:36:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
jEEBUS TOLD ME tO GIVE you this -1
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-10 15:23:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DaBeast (user info) at 2009-05-10 15:15:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oy, Jesus Jumping Kay-rist on a gawd damned mattress. You meshugenah bastards. Find something more important to do with your life than arguing the inarguable. Try this on for size:
http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/atheism.htm
Then come back and argue THAT.
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I don't really have a problem with this definition. Honestly, if there were real proof of a god, then I would have no problem excepting the fact.
Submitted by DaBeast (user info) at 2009-05-10 15:15:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oy, Jesus Jumping Kay-rist on a gawd damned mattress. You meshugenah bastards. Find something more important to do with your life than arguing the inarguable. Try this on for size:
http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/atheism.htm
Then come back and argue THAT.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-10 10:47:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-10 04:27:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A primary aim of science is to collect facts. The ultimate purpose of science is to discern the order that exists between and amongst the various facts. Give me a break on the gravity... on a side note... gravity is not a Scientific Theory... is is a Scientific LAW. It has been hypothesized, tested and duplicated. Hence Law...
No matter how you attack my misstated facts, no theory of scientific creation has ever been confirmed. And yet you choose to continue to approach this conversation as though you are being entirely pragmatic,and I am the raving lunatic here... Can you concede that point or are you to continue to focus your efforts on avoiding addressing that?
My personal belief is that there is a crossroad between what science has and will prove, and a profound higher power. That is my belief.
Can I prove that? No... I can admit that. Can you say the same about what you believe that science has defined to you? Has science proven anything to you? Can you demonstrate that for me? Cause Modern Scientific Method states that you should. OTHERWISE it is a theory no matter how well supported, it is not considered LAW.
I am not going to hide behind a cynical attitude. In my life experience I have been made to believe that there is more to this life than just what we have before us. Not to say that there isn't a convergence with that which has been defined by mankind's pursuit of knowledge of the world in which we live. That to me seems to be the most probable explanation.
I havent approached this conversation like a religious zealot, yet you want to point your finger at me and want to chastise my belief because they differ from yours. Hell, believe whatever you want to believe. But don't veil it with rhetoric and verbal masturbation. There is nothing that PROVES anything you have said. You can give me your bullshit about how it is closer to proven than my beliefs but that doesn't mean it's proven.
I COULD go in to all the things that I consider to add validity to my beliefs, but since it is subjective you are going to disagree. So I am not going to waste my time. The differing points is that your beliefs are based on the tangible, mine are based on the spirtual. Hence we are never going to evaluate truths the same way
This is exactly why I don't engage these conversations.... We are locked in rhetoric and personal belief. Therefore I have successfully demonstrated what I originally said, these are never-ending debates.
If you want to be pragmatic, let's condense this entire debate in to a single statement.
<b> We believe different things about the same subject I know I am not going to change your mind and you need to accept that you aren't changing mine. No matter how stupid we might think each other's beliefs are, We obviously aren't going to see eye to eye. This is a waste of time.</b>
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Gravity is only a theory. The term "law" is not the goal for science, in fact "law" is just an epithet. There are many laws that turn out to be correct, but there are many more that turn out wrong. There is no clear classification as to what makes a law, and there is no clear scientific classification between hypothesis and law. Gravity has been hypothesised, observed, and tested, and has not been disproved, hence... THEORY.
The fact that protein chains an be created from non living matter has been tested and varified many, many times. If that isn't "proof", then what would prove this to you? I don't think that you are being a lunitic, and I'm not attacking you for being wrong. I was attempting to correct you on a couple of gross misstatements.
Again, the term "law" does not outrank theory so to speak. Theory does not mean 'guess' as you seem to believe. I would ask you to get the scientific definition to theory, hypothosis, law, and even science, and you may realize how you are misusing the words. badastronomy.com is a decent place to check out, as is the book "Only A Theory" by Kenneth R. Miller.
You are more than intitled to your belief, as I said from my very first comment, but the truth of the matter is that you want your belief to be holy ground where none dare tread or question, yet you have been very insulting and dismissive, not towards my belief, but towards a body of work that has been built, tested, peer reviewed, and duplicated for hundreds of years. You are quick to judge and misuse scientific theories and definitions, but that never stops you from using all the delightful creature comforts and technologies that science with all of it's "theories" produce.
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-05-10 08:34:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
HEAT THEIVING WHORE
:)
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-10 04:34:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Phallic
The point I stated that I would really really like you to zero in on is that I SAID... they are both leaps of faith..
Don't like me using the word faith?
Ok...
Both require a choice. That is all I have said before this tangent.
And Consequently I am not arguing with you... I disagree with you, and at the same time, My original review of this post was that these conversations ALWAYS go the way this one has.
You get 2 people on the opposite sides of a fence and no one concedes, no one wins, and both walk away with a sense of accomplishment for oneself and malaise for their counterpart.
We don't think alike. Accept it. I did...
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-10 04:27:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A primary aim of science is to collect facts. The ultimate purpose of science is to discern the order that exists between and amongst the various facts. Give me a break on the gravity... on a side note... gravity is not a Scientific Theory... is is a Scientific LAW. It has been hypothesized, tested and duplicated. Hence Law...
No matter how you attack my misstated facts, no theory of scientific creation has ever been confirmed. And yet you choose to continue to approach this conversation as though you are being entirely pragmatic,and I am the raving lunatic here... Can you concede that point or are you to continue to focus your efforts on avoiding addressing that?
My personal belief is that there is a crossroad between what science has and will prove, and a profound higher power. That is my belief.
Can I prove that? No... I can admit that. Can you say the same about what you believe that science has defined to you? Has science proven anything to you? Can you demonstrate that for me? Cause Modern Scientific Method states that you should. OTHERWISE it is a theory no matter how well supported, it is not considered LAW.
I am not going to hide behind a cynical attitude. In my life experience I have been made to believe that there is more to this life than just what we have before us. Not to say that there isn't a convergence with that which has been defined by mankind's pursuit of knowledge of the world in which we live. That to me seems to be the most probable explanation.
I havent approached this conversation like a religious zealot, yet you want to point your finger at me and want to chastise my belief because they differ from yours. Hell, believe whatever you want to believe. But don't veil it with rhetoric and verbal masturbation. There is nothing that PROVES anything you have said. You can give me your bullshit about how it is closer to proven than my beliefs but that doesn't mean it's proven.
I COULD go in to all the things that I consider to add validity to my beliefs, but since it is subjective you are going to disagree. So I am not going to waste my time. The differing points is that your beliefs are based on the tangible, mine are based on the spirtual. Hence we are never going to evaluate truths the same way
This is exactly why I don't engage these conversations.... We are locked in rhetoric and personal belief. Therefore I have successfully demonstrated what I originally said, these are never-ending debates.
If you want to be pragmatic, let's condense this entire debate in to a single statement.
<b> We believe different things about the same subject I know I am not going to change your mind and you need to accept that you aren't changing mine. No matter how stupid we might think each other's beliefs are, We obviously aren't going to see eye to eye. This is a waste of time.</b>
Submitted by Spuzzum (user info) at 2009-05-10 03:11:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Recent research has shown the empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited. And as a corollary, the market for technologies is shrinking.
As a world leader, it is important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe there will always be a need for us to have a well-articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you. Retard.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-05-10 00:08:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-09 19:47:38 EDT (#)
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Once again this is a matter of personal choice and all the opinions that you have indicated are entirely relative.
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Yeh they're relative, but like i said, they're relative in the sense that one has evidentiary and logical support and the other doesn't. If it's all relative then reason/religion/believing we're all in the matrix are equally valid positions, so why are you bothering to argue with me?
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The law of Biogenesis states life arises from existing life. Organisms cannot come from non-life.
Abiogenesis or the scientific study of the origin of life, is no closer to determining how life came to be then it was 200 years ago. Science has not proven ANYTHING with regards to the origin of life. It is a collection of THEORIES. The only Scientifically proven FACTS that exist in MODERN SCIENCE, support that life cannot be replicated without preexisting life, HENCE science has no fucking idea where life came from.
________
PRECISELY. Science doesn't know. Ergo, the correct answer for the original development of life is "We do not know". The whole fucking reason science exists is that our knowledge is incomplete.
The logical fallacy is the idea that "God" actually solves any of these problems. If you're willing to accept the "God" answer, then you're willing to accept that a sentient entity (God) did not come from another sentient entity, so how is that not accepting biogenesis? And when you bring in shit like "God has existed forever/ outside time/ outside the physical constraints of the universe" then you're including arbitrary rules and characteristics that are entirely unprovable and untestable. You might as well say "Golden peacocks created life".
But here's the thing. You've drawn in evolutionary and origin arguments that totally distract from the point.
Evolution and abiogenesis are THEORIES that are universally acknowledged as POSSIBLE explanations, subject to certain evidentiary and logical proofs. The "God" answer is sold as an unequivocal solution to every question we have, no matter how incomprehensible and complex.
If you take nothing else out of this response, take this:
Saying that evolution/abiogenesis is wrong is NOT proof of God. These theories are merely examinable suggestions about possibilities and potentialities. The evidentiary burden still lies on you to provide a single iota of evidence of God's existence. You could prove 100% incontrovertibly that evolution is wrong, and you wouldn't be a single step closer to actually proving "God" among the infinite possibilities that exist. Proving that a hat is not red does not automatically prove that it is blue.
________
'even though you have nothing more than an opinion that is equally as far fetched and unproven.'
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How the fuck is "We don't know where life came from because it doesn't seem to come from non-life" as "far fetched and unproven" as "A giant invisible man built a world in one trillionth of the universe and magically plonked animals all over it".
How can you fucking argue that without your brain collapsing?
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-09 23:20:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-09 19:47:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Once again this is a matter of personal choice and all the opinions that you have indicated are entirely relative.
The law of Biogenesis states life arises from existing life. Organisms cannot come from non-life.
Charles Darwin's Origin of the species ends with the statement, "and life was first breathed by the creator." The father of Evolution determined that life came from a higher power. Hell the man is entombed in Westminster Abbey, and consequently was a devout Christian.
Abiogenesis or the scientific study of the origin of life, is no closer to determining how life came to be then it was 200 years ago. Science has not proven ANYTHING with regards to the origin of life. It is a collection of THEORIES. The only Scientifically proven FACTS that exist in MODERN SCIENCE, support that life cannot be replicated without preexisting life, HENCE science has no fucking idea where life came from.
99.9999999% definitive? Where exactly did you get that overstated opinion?
I find it funny that you will stand up on your pedestal and criticize my beliefs, ridicule them and insult me, even though you have nothing more than an opinion that is equally as far fetched and unproven.
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With all due respect, Abiogenesis has shown that protein chains (the building blocks of life) can, in fact, form spontaneously from none living matter, and Darwin was not a christian. He stated many, many, many times that he was not a christian, and the rumor of him converting on his deathbed was shown to be unfounded from day one. Even die hard christian anti-evolution sites admit that, and ask christians to not use this fallacy in debates.
Also, as a general rule, science isn't out to "prove" anything. Science attempts to find and catalog the natural explanation for occurences, and god is not a natural explanation for anything. Finally, laymen tend to think that THEORY means GUESS, and that is about as far from the truth as you can be. If you don't like scientific THEORIES, then I suggest you start doing away with them all. Start with the theory of gravity.
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-09 19:47:38 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-05-09 00:43:01 EDT (#)
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Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-08 19:53:42 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 16:15:42 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:42:35 EDT (#)
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I don't understand how Atheism requires a leap of faith... please explain.
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That was meant for DarthFaded
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I probably should have elaborated more, when I stated that....
Whether you perceive life as a divine plan, or random series of cosmic events haphazardly resulting in life as we know it, neither can be 100% proved or 100% denied. Though there are those on both sides that will state that there is evidence to support their belief, none of it is 100% definitive.
Therefore, what one chooses as their belief ultimately comes down to a choice. Regardless of what you choose to believe, your reasons, or whether or not it is an educated decision, it is a leap of faith, which ironically is the essence of spiritualism.
__________
OK, so they're both leaps of faith. Having said that, you can still quantify leaps of faith in terms of levels of retardedness.
The following two statements are leaps of faith:
1) I assume gravity will remain somewhat constant today, and am not taking any measures to secure myself to the Earth in the case of a gravitational reversal.
2) I believe that we are all made up of 1 billion microscopic cocks and that the sole meaning of life is to rub ourselves against velour until we have a full body ejaculation.
Trying to demean the first "leap" by making analogies with the second fails to take into account the massive evidentiary and logical differences between the two. The fact that neither is "100% definitive" doesn't mean they are equally valid. One is 99.9999999999999% definitive and the other is nonsense.
If you're going to make a "leap of faith", make one that doesn't make you look like a delusional retard.
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Once again this is a matter of personal choice and all the opinions that you have indicated are entirely relative.
The law of Biogenesis states life arises from existing life. Organisms cannot come from non-life.
Charles Darwin's Origin of the species ends with the statement, "and life was first breathed by the creator." The father of Evolution determined that life came from a higher power. Hell the man is entombed in Westminster Abbey, and consequently was a devout Christian.
Abiogenesis or the scientific study of the origin of life, is no closer to determining how life came to be then it was 200 years ago. Science has not proven ANYTHING with regards to the origin of life. It is a collection of THEORIES. The only Scientifically proven FACTS that exist in MODERN SCIENCE, support that life cannot be replicated without preexisting life, HENCE science has no fucking idea where life came from.
99.9999999% definitive? Where exactly did you get that overstated opinion?
I find it funny that you will stand up on your pedestal and criticize my beliefs, ridicule them and insult me, even though you have nothing more than an opinion that is equally as far fetched and unproven.
Submitted by i_can_get_you_a_toe (user info) at 2009-05-09 17:47:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Me and my flatmates did the epic star wars marathon yesterday. Not on purpose though, more a need to not move from the couch and the close proximity of white wine and the star wars box set. I dared to ask what exactly did beru and owen harvest, I saw no crops. And with disdain I was told 'They're moisture farmers'
of course.
I'm aware that this is not what your post was about, but i don't really care.
Submitted by captainrads (user info) at 2009-05-09 13:01:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I'm just curious why so many want to turn away from a concept of a creator.
Did you have shitty lives or touched as a kids?
What's going on here? "
Ugghhh....I hate it when people say that. That would be like asking a Christian, "Why are you Christian? Were you brainwashed and threatened as a kid or something?" There are many reasons why atheists don't believe in a God. One of my reasons is that there is so much suffering and terror in the world, how could a God who loves his children allow such a thing?
As for why we sound so sure of our lack of beliefs, its because most of us are smart. Not to say that the religious aren't, but generally intelligent people are arrogant. Intelligent people love telling people things, and proving them wrong with superior knowledge. Religion is no different. Get two intelligent people from both sides and they'll debate until their lungs give out.
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2009-05-09 02:44:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I'm just curious why so many want to turn away from a concept of a creator. "
It's not want. I'd love to be able to believe wholeheartedly that there's someone watching out for me, who loves me, who is all-powerful and that after I die I'll live forever in paradise. That would rock so fucking hard.
But I don't. I've tried. It feels fake and stupid. I spent time with Catholics and Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses, Baptists and blah blah blah. The trappings may change but the core belief is what I have an issue with.
I believe utterly that there's nothing there. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. It's the only thing that rings true, and has never been uncomfortably challenged by anything I've read or heard or seen.
I'm good with that.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-05-09 00:43:01 EDT (#)
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Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-08 19:53:42 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 16:15:42 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:42:35 EDT (#)
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I don't understand how Atheism requires a leap of faith... please explain.
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That was meant for DarthFaded
------------------
I probably should have elaborated more, when I stated that....
Whether you perceive life as a divine plan, or random series of cosmic events haphazardly resulting in life as we know it, neither can be 100% proved or 100% denied. Though there are those on both sides that will state that there is evidence to support their belief, none of it is 100% definitive.
Therefore, what one chooses as their belief ultimately comes down to a choice. Regardless of what you choose to believe, your reasons, or whether or not it is an educated decision, it is a leap of faith, which ironically is the essence of spiritualism.
__________
OK, so they're both leaps of faith. Having said that, you can still quantify leaps of faith in terms of levels of retardedness.
The following two statements are leaps of faith:
1) I assume gravity will remain somewhat constant today, and am not taking any measures to secure myself to the Earth in the case of a gravitational reversal.
2) I believe that we are all made up of 1 billion microscopic cocks and that the sole meaning of life is to rub ourselves against velour until we have a full body ejaculation.
Trying to demean the first "leap" by making analogies with the second fails to take into account the massive evidentiary and logical differences between the two. The fact that neither is "100% definitive" doesn't mean they are equally valid. One is 99.9999999999999% definitive and the other is nonsense.
If you're going to make a "leap of faith", make one that doesn't make you look like a delusional retard.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-08 20:52:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You are absolutely right, Faded.
My apologies.
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-08 20:03:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:46:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Darth Faded, this is actually what I'm talking about. You start off taking a general middle road which I respect, then you admit that you don't join the debate because you have a bias due to your religion, and I again respect that, but you finish with "you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink". Why would you end it like that?
If the horse to water metaphor isn't meant as a correlation to leading an Athiest to religion, then how is it meant? It implies an insult to non believers because you have the right answer and we Athiests are just to dumb to understand. Suddenly you are not taking a middle road, you are taking the proverbial high road and looking down your nose. It's these little parting barbs that cause so many problems. You don't want to debate and want to stay neutral, then do that. Don't pretend to be above it then fire off an insult as you leave the room.
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My statement was not meant as a biased statement.
In the context of my post, that statement was an illustration that you cannot easily change a person's belief. REGARDLESS of what that belief might be.
That metaphor, though it could easily be taken or meant in the context that you took it, could just as easily be used to illustrate an atheist's perceived inanity in a Christian's belief and a lack of ability to convince them of otherwise, no matter how well expressed and supported they are able to justify an Atheistic lifestyle.
This is why I typically choose not to engage these types of discussions, it is always very easy to be misconstrued thusly resulting in an onslaught of biased commentary and perceptions. Sandmantate, I am not directing this at you, but I am using your clearly agitated response as an example on why I see these types of posts as impossible, neverending, unwinnable, debates. Hence my feelings that I expressed in my first post.
Let's have a beer and talk about something else now.... Anyone watching the Stanley Cup? How about them Dodgers? Bummer about ManRam. I wonder if Favre will get to play ffor the Vikings....
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-08 19:53:42 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 16:15:42 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:42:35 EDT (#)
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I don't understand how Atheism requires a leap of faith... please explain.
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That was meant for DarthFaded
------------------
I probably should have elaborated more, when I stated that....
Whether you perceive life as a divine plan, or random series of cosmic events haphazardly resulting in life as we know it, neither can be 100% proved or 100% denied. Though there are those on both sides that will state that there is evidence to support their belief, none of it is 100% definitive.
Therefore, what one chooses as their belief ultimately comes down to a choice. Regardless of what you choose to believe, your reasons, or whether or not it is an educated decision, it is a leap of faith, which ironically is the essence of spiritualism.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-08 16:37:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
too* damnit
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-08 16:36:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Semantics really. I would consider 'fanatical' to be something far beyond the ordinary; something along the lines of Waco or the muslim suicide bombers... someone who's so mindlessly obsessed with their cause that they're probably best off out of the gene pool.
Devout, to me, is someone who is just obsessive enough to make dinner conversation out of their cause. This devotion does not have to be religious; I've met devout vegetarians and devout Mac owners. It's just that you believe adamantly enough in something that you see no reason why everyone else shouldn't to.
I guess you could consider me a dedicated vegatarian or even a dedicated Christian. I just happen to consider broaching these subjects and pushing my ideas on other people to be rude. I therefor wouldn't really consider myself to be devout.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-05-08 14:51:39 EDT (#)
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Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-08 14:35:05 EDT (#)
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A devout atheist, like a devout Christian, Muslim, Wiccan etc, is someone who believes so firmly in their belief system that they have a hard time coping if others don't share it. Devout atheists are just as annoying as the most devout religious types I've run across. Often moreso, actually as, like your Sharptons/Wests, they don't understand the concept of the double standard.
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i think you're using the wrong word. fanatic atheist maybe. fanatic christian, fanatic muslim, fanatic wiccan (i'm laughing) would be a better descriptor. devout just means devoted which is something you really should be in any religion. if you're going to have a belief your actions should follow it. for example, if people were devout in many religions they'd be a lot kinder. but lots of people are fanatic which makes them irrational and dangerous.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-08 14:44:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
it's sad.
how many people have died over the argument which boils down to
"God likes me best!"
"nuh-uh, he like me best!"
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-08 14:35:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A devout atheist, like a devout Christian, Muslim, Wiccan etc, is someone who believes so firmly in their belief system that they have a hard time coping if others don't share it. Devout atheists are just as annoying as the most devout religious types I've run across. Often moreso, actually as, like your Sharptons/Wests, they don't understand the concept of the double standard.
Submitted by TheBrad (user info) at 2009-05-08 13:12:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DaBeast (user info) at 2009-05-07 21:47:45 PDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TheBrad (user info) at 2009-05-08 00:05:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-07 20:11:00 PDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A devout atheist is just as blindly addicted to dogma and circular reasoning as your hard-lined fundie. The funny part is that most of them can't see it.
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What is a "Devout" athiest?
I'm an athiest. I don't believe in god, but i am completely willing to. Just show me the a shred of evidence.
-------------------------
Umm... that whole "I'm willing to believe if I get some hard evidence" means that you're not an atheist. You're an agnostic. Like Missouri, you want to be shown. So... ok then.
And who has evidence of a mythical invisible sky being that will spank us all and send us into a fiery time-out if we're bad? No one has evidence of that. If they did, they'd have produced it well before now.
------------------------
I'm not agnostic, I am just open to new ideas. Hell, the hubble may spot jeebus hanging out on the big dipper tomorrow. I think that is very unlikely, but anything's possible.
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2009-05-08 12:22:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm meeting my mate over the road for a half in the sunshine
=================
I DONT KNOW WHAT LANGUAGE THAT WAS BUT WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE MISS!
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-05-08 12:14:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
lol
the amount i made was twice that
damn you bart, expect an email of complaint
that's it, i'm outta here
i'm meeting my mate over the road for a half in the sunshine
Submitted by HeyJude (user info) at 2009-05-08 12:12:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
heat
Submitted by DreamWeaver (user info) at 2009-05-08 12:10:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
heat
Submitted by DreamWeaver (user info) at 2009-05-08 12:10:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
thanks for saying my breasts are the only reason for interest
heat
Submitted by Toddler (user info) at 2009-05-08 11:31:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Conversation is transitioning into the atheist semantics, which is excruciatingly painful.
Submitted by Yozz (user info) at 2009-05-08 11:12:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/122126
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-05-08 10:58:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm just curious why so many want to turn away from a concept of a creator.
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i just personally don't like the idea of something that powerful allowing such bad shit to happen, or in some cases making so it would happen on purpose. it's like having an alcoholic parent that hits and rapes you and then blames it on you. i don't understand believing something that's all powerful and that fucking cruel. i mean what else is the bastard going to do to the world if what is allowed now is already this fucked up. to me it's more comforting to believe nature makes mistakes, as shown by evolution, and that it takes a long time to correct those mistakes but at the end we're all just little critters running around on earth doing our little critter business.
maybe i just don't think people are as important as they think they are? it'd be nice to believe in something i guess but i think that's a ya do or ya don't. existence itself is pretty amazing when you think about all the shit that goes into things like roaches and birds and photosynthesis without it mattering if it's intelligent design or not. that's my personal view anyway. i'd believe in darth vader though.
Submitted by BranDo (user info) at 2009-05-08 09:39:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Last thing I heard is that God believes in me.
I'm absolutely fine with that.
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2009-05-08 07:41:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It's all good.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-05-08 04:25:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
That's straight blazin
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-05-08 04:17:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The idea of a God doesn't satisfactorily answer a single question about the universe.
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-05-08 01:09:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
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Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 20:28:42 BST (#)
Ranking: -2
I may have to do a full post on this but the real reason my name is all caps is because I had the caps lock on when I signed up.
I don't change it because secretly, it gets Orphelia hot in her lady parts, thats why she teases me about it.
---
this and your age is all i got
give me more to work with
(picture, picture, picture)
Submitted by DaBeast (user info) at 2009-05-08 00:47:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TheBrad (user info) at 2009-05-08 00:05:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-07 20:11:00 PDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A devout atheist is just as blindly addicted to dogma and circular reasoning as your hard-lined fundie. The funny part is that most of them can't see it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is a "Devout" athiest?
I'm an athiest. I don't believe in god, but i am completely willing to. Just show me the a shred of evidence.
-------------------------
Umm... that whole "I'm willing to believe if I get some hard evidence" means that you're not an atheist. You're an agnostic. Like Missouri, you want to be shown. So... ok then.
And who has evidence of a mythical invisible sky being that will spank us all and send us into a fiery time-out if we're bad? No one has evidence of that. If they did, they'd have produced it well before now.
Submitted by RoadSong (user info) at 2009-05-08 00:15:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Flatliner here. I don't know WHATS going on, only that SOMETHING is going on. I flatlined and died and saw things. The experience changed my life.
Submitted by X54 (user info) at 2009-05-08 00:12:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
God is for people who can't handle reality. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Submitted by TheBrad (user info) at 2009-05-08 00:05:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-07 20:11:00 PDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A devout atheist is just as blindly addicted to dogma and circular reasoning as your hard-lined fundie. The funny part is that most of them can't see it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is a "Devout" athiest?
I'm an athiest. I don't believe in god, but i am completely willing to. Just show me the a shred of evidence.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-05-07 23:17:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-07 23:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A devout atheist is just as blindly addicted to dogma and circular reasoning as your hard-lined fundie. The funny part is that most of them can't see it.
----
That's true, but atheists are no fun to make fun of. Unless they're wearing Speedos and black socks, of course.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 23:14:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-07 23:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A devout atheist is just as blindly addicted to dogma and circular reasoning as your hard-lined fundie. The funny part is that most of them can't see it.
----------------------------
I don't see that..... examples?
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2009-05-07 23:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A devout atheist is just as blindly addicted to dogma and circular reasoning as your hard-lined fundie. The funny part is that most of them can't see it.
Submitted by kai070169 (user info) at 2009-05-07 22:33:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... c'mon. Religion is in the same league as unicorns and the easter bunny.
But most of all, I am HAPPY, therefore I don't need any religion. It's that simple.
Linkwhoring is my religion! http://www.ubersite.com/m/41585
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2009-05-07 22:28:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-05-07 22:24:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If it weren't for religious people, I'd have to start making fun of foreigners or something
Just make fun of both like I do.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-05-07 22:24:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If it weren't for religious people, I'd have to start making fun of foreigners or something. Probably Germans.
Submitted by DaBeast (user info) at 2009-05-07 21:58:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Heh. Ever hang out with a bunch of wiccans (I ain't capitalizing that shit on purpose)? Most of 'em are Catholic. No, they're not EX-Catholic. They're Catholic and they're indulging in a teenage rebellion (no, I don't care how old they are) against Mummy or Daddy by pretending to be something that neither they nor their parents are (read: open minded). They sling words like "the goddess" or "Cerenunnos" (I don't care if that's spelled correctly and if you do then STFU) or "magick" (yes, they add that "k" at the end for some strange and unknown reason and if you call them on it, not even they can tell you why) and they prance around in their little cloaks in their little circles and burn incense and smoke pot and they feel very, very clandestine and mysterious while only managing to look completely and irredeemably (fuck you spelling Nazi) stoopid (fuck you, again). The few that aren't Catholic are closet Baptists. When they cum, they scream about god and when they curse, they spew hellfire and brimstone and they truly, truly believe in Satan and all his demons (just ask them how many of aforementioned demons they've tried to conjure into their little magick circle and they won't be able to count that high).
I believe in nothing except the power inherent in my own Penis (I capitalize that shit on purpose) and its ability to make every woman it impacts stutter and wail in unholy gleeful rapture. IF I ever find something that's more powerful than my Penis, then I'll believe in that. So far, ain't found anything that powerful.
Submitted by Sideburns (user info) at 2009-05-07 21:11:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You know what, generally this would get a -2 from me.
Yet, you brought up your point without pompousness and, although not shedding new light, this post was almost poetic.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-07 21:09:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
moopy, I think you had better do a little research on what the scientific definition of "theory" is before you dismiss the notion out of hand.
Submitted by TuTs (user info) at 2009-05-07 20:11:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 for opening that can of worms. The was I see it is, I had sex there was nothing then a person appeared. I created life I am God. Really you should worship me. Seriously though it is hard to tell a child when their pet dies or a friend, when they ask "where did they go"? and you have to answer well we buried them in the ground because dead bodies smell and cause disease and they can animate anymore because their neurons have ceased to fire. So whatever feelings you had for them are irrelevant because you arn't going to see them anymore. Oh! and here is the punchline, one day you are going to die too! Now go to sleep, but don't worry because you have to grow up and join the masses and become a worker drone.
Or can't I just say, They have gone to heaven, their body dosn't matter because they have a divine soul and so do we all. Your personality isn't just the way your brain is wired and biology, you are divine and a God (an all powerful being who repels chaos), loves you and one day you will go to heaven too. Besides not to believe means we go into the black for eternity and eternity is a hard concept for our brains to conceive.
Einstien believed in a God.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 19:00:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Science has answered an awful lot more questions than people seem to realize.
Submitted by moopy4u (user info) at 2009-05-07 18:57:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"if there was a god, i wouldn't get fucked so many times on the turn, let alone the river"
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If there WAS a god, i WOULD get fucked so many times... Etc.
Some people aren't open enough to believe in a sole creator. Science has it's theories... There's no 'sure' explaination as to why we are here, but science seems to state that this theory of a "Big Bang" and "Evolution" has everything under wraps... I don't know what to believe...
We only know the In-between. The start - we will never ever know. The end, we won't know - but will only find out when we die... Even then, is there REALLY life after death? It's some deep stuff right there, because people fear death. Is it only at a certain point in our lives where we become comfortable enough to learn, and even cope death, or the slow process of dying?...
Submitted by Darth_Famine (user info) at 2009-05-07 18:50:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2009-05-07 17:17:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
if there was a god, i wouldn't get fucked so many times on the turn, let alone the river
----------------
lawl at least you make it that far I get it on the flop most times
Submitted by Lib (user info) at 2009-05-07 18:37:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I bet no one here remembers "The Way"?
That made me hate organized religion more than catholic school.
But a god???
has to be a man look at the world : )
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 17:52:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zv9AgwKAE0&feature=popular
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2009-05-07 17:17:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
if there was a god, i wouldn't get fucked so many times on the turn, let alone the river
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 16:15:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:42:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't understand how Atheism requires a leap of faith... please explain.
------------
That was meant for DarthFaded
Submitted by Darth_Famine (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:54:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am not opposed to the concept of a creator,
I am opposed to the organized religious viewpoint of a creator that want me to act a certian way.
(IE belive what we tell you to or die!)
I have seen too many zealots.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:28:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I may have to do a full post on this but the real reason my name is all caps is because I had the caps lock on when I signed up.
I don't change it because secretly, it gets Orphelia hot in her lady parts, thats why she teases me about it.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:23:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:18:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
yes Kaos was who I had in mind but this post was not specifcaly about him. I just noticed a pattern of angry replys that I took as anger with God and was curious. perhaps I was wrong and it was just organized religion people have a problem with.
===
it's the internet.
men are called fags.
women are told to fix sandwiches and stfu.
babies are mentionned with rape.
blacks are niggers.
etc...
and god is fucked in the ass.
there's nothing more to it than trolling in most cases.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:19:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:04:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A disturbing example of what a mob mentality combined with baseless beliefs can do.
http://mambogani.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10319
===
i just watched that. :-/
but baseless beliefs don't have to be necessarily related religion.
racism, sexism, whateverism is based on baseless beliefs and have disastrous consequences.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:18:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
yes Kaos was who I had in mind but this post was not specifcaly about him. I just noticed a pattern of angry replys that I took as anger with God and was curious.
perhaps I was wrong and it was just organized religion people have a problem with.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:11:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i think the "anger toward God" you are referring to was from kaos_king.
that guy is a moron. "oooh, look at me, i'm goth and i hate god"
personally, i don't believe in anything, because i'd rather believe in nothing than something entirely speculative. apparently, spirituality is caused by a lack of activity in the right parietal lobe in the brain. i'll go with that and brush off any spiritual experience i might have as brain farts.
that's what i think. but i couldn't care less if other people believe in god. even though i had a very very religious education and i hated every minute of it. if someone should be bitter about religion, it's people like me. not fat fucks like kaos_king who think violently denying God makes them cool. don't forget that fat hopeless losers will do anything to have an identity. some LARP, some play WoW 24/7, others act like they're the antichrist. more often than not, people like him actually believe in something. he probably jerks off in a pantagram every now and then.
spirituality and even religion have many positive aspects. but after having a childhood that revolved mostly around religion, i can't bring myself to give a shit anymore about that subject altogheter. i can understand why some people do though.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:04:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A disturbing example of what a mob mentality combined with baseless beliefs can do.
http://mambogani.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10319
I'm not kidding, it really is disturbing. Not 'kitten-beheading' disturbing. I mean 'burning people alive for being witches' disturbing.
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:02:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
With the exception of myself and sandman, would people PLEASE take note that FALLEN is in caps.
He gets quite narky if you don't name him in CAPS.
He will go home kick the dog, beat his wife and sell his own grandma for a fiver.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-07 15:00:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:54:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
See Tate that is what I'm saying.
I didn't take his comment to be an attack on you.
the horse to water implies that if he decided to tell you about his religion that dosent mean you are going to automaticaly believe as well.
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But look at it from the flip side: A Muslim could use that phrase or an Athiest or a Jew. The horse to water metaphor is insulting because it implies that your faith is vital to life and knowledge i.e. you need water to survive. If I won't "drink" your faith it's because I'm to stubborn and I'll die because my ignorance won't let me survive.
To answer your question to Snark, you said that you could understand it if somebody led a shitty life and was therefore mad at god, but an Athiest can't be mad at god because an Athiest doesn't believe that god is real. You can't be mad at a story for your shitty life.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:54:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
See Tate that is what I'm saying.
I didn't take his comment to be an attack on you.
the horse to water implies that if he decided to tell you about his religion that dosent mean you are going to automaticaly believe as well.
snark were did I say that?
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:52:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
FALLEN, I think I understood what you were trying to say, and I was using "you" as a general pronoun, I wasn't specifically referring to YOU. I'll out and out say that I'm an Athiest, but I have no problem with faith when it doesn't undermine and derail common sense, you know? A lot of faith brings a sense of comfort and calm, and I can understand that. I believe that religion was started as a way to comfort people scared of a gigantic world were events are often times terrifying.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:49:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:46:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Darth Faded, this is actually what I'm talking about. You start off taking a general middle road which I respect, then you admit that you don't join the debate because you have a bias due to your religion, and I again respect that, but you finish with "you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink". Why would you end it like that?
If the horse to water metaphor isn't meant as a correlation to leading an Athiest to religion, then how is it meant? It implies an insult to non believers because you have the right answer and we Athiests are just to dumb to understand. Suddenly you are not taking a middle road, you are taking the proverbial high road and looking down your nose. It's these little parting barbs that cause so many problems. You don't want to debate and want to stay neutral, then do that. Don't pretend to be above it then fire off an insult as you leave the room.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:46:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Darth Faded, this is actually what I'm talking about. You start off taking a general middle road which I respect, then you admit that you don't join the debate because you have a bias due to your religion, and I again respect that, but you finish with "you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink". Why would you end it like that?
If the horse to water metaphor isn't meant as a correlation to leading an Athiest to religion, then how is it meant? It implies an insult to non believers because you have the right answer and we Athiests are just to dumb to understand. Suddenly you are not taking a middle road, you are taking the proverbial high road and looking down your nose. It's these little parting barbs that cause so many problems. You don't want to debate and want to stay neutral, then do that. Don't pretend to be above it then fire off an insult as you leave the room.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:44:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fallen,
Atheists cannot possibly be angry at God.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:42:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't understand how Atheism requires a leap of faith... please explain.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:40:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
attn snark and tate.
posting at work sucks, I find myself rushing. It seems I was implying if you dont believe then something is wrong with you.
That is not the case, it was just poor writing on my part.
I agree with you all, Religions have been hijacked and are very double edged swords.
my "touched as kids/shitty life" comments came from the anger at God I see. If life shat on a person I can understand a bitterness and blame against a creator. I had a massive faith crisis that made me take on the Fallen persona.
From comments thus far I think the problems is observed are with religion and not a god figure.
and I agree.
as for imposing beliefs, you'll not hear it from me. Free will is what its all about.
Is there a PLAN, yes I think so. but I dont know what it is so I dont worry about it.
Can you fuck with the plan by doing things out of free will? Yes but the plan adjusts.
I dont think it's important to sweat the details, just live your life.
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2009-05-07 14:30:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think you are generalizing a little too much here.
The whole topic of Religion is generally a touchy topic because you typically have 2 distinct groups that feel very strongly one way or the other.
Both sides of it require a leap of faith, of which there really is no way to express without being innately secular or non-secular. THe arguments typically end in a figurative draw from a 3rd party, and a railroaded 1st person victory.
Long Story Short, if someone makes reference to a belief, one from the other side of the argument will find their opinion to be asinine and offer up criticism on the absurdity of the former's belief, and then add their reasoning and support. Then the person that volunteered the initial belief will approach the contradiction with the same cynicism and respond in the same manner.
So basically it is a never ending battle of personal belief. One that without a spiritual awakening or silencing, can never be expressed and argued with words.
Personally I believe that there is more to this world than the tangible, and with the profound changes and occurrences in my life and their relevance and relation to my participation and lessons learned from studying the bible, I attribute that feeling to Jesus Christ.
Though I believe this, generally I choose not to engage a skeptic, because generally speaking I am not engaged with an unbiased discussion.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:58:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I blame Forensic for putting me onto Hitchens.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:51:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:43:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:21:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Man murdered neaderthal long before he got all full of religion.
Hey, I wonder if that was the inspiration for the whole Cain & Abel story?
Well anyway, religion ain't so bad and nor are the people who speak on their religions behalf. Even El Ron Hubwardo just wanted to fuck more hot chicks and have more drugs than he'd otherwise have been able to as an author, which is something I think we can all get behind.
----------------------
Which is to say, religion is a tool, created and used/abused by mankind. Also, fat gingers can use it to party.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:29:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Why do you assume peoples lack of faith is somehow a reflection of some type of childhood trauma.
My research (and I've been doing a ton of it lately) due to a crisis of faith, shows me that lack of belief in a creator can be a seriously freeing thing.
Myself, I'm still on the fence although I will say I'm leaning heavily towards the atheist side. It's hard not to once you really begin to rationalize.
One thing I can say for sure. Organized religion is shit.
Submitted by Chroniclysm (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:27:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've gotten the sense that it's less of an outright dismissal of the divine, but rather a condescending perspective on the arrogance that comes with organized religion. Believing that some specific group, or even person, knows more or less about god than anyone else should be insulting to everyone.
Then again, there are definitely some all-out atheists floating around.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:21:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
OK FALLEN, Here's the scoop from my point of veiw. If you want to believe in a creator, then that's your bag. I'm perfectly OK with that, and I'll go so far as to actually SUPPORT your decision if you find comfort in your belief, and it is not actively bringing harm or harassment to others.
But here's the problem I have with your question: "Did you have shitty lives or touched as a kids?" That's bullshit. How come there has to be something 'wrong' with me if I don't believe in what you believe in? How come people can't be good and decent without believing in a creator? Why do I have to accept your religious beliefs but mine have to either be wrong or the result of a drunken step dad? Why can't we agree to disagree? For every 'thick headed' atheist that you meet I meet a religious zealot who tells me that I want to be an athiest because I want to fuck goats and kill people without consequence. For every asshole you meet that tells you god is a fairy tale, I get to meet a fundie who tells me that fags are going to hell.
It's not just the hypocrisy that boils my blood, it's the contridictions and double standards. We supposedly have free will when someone is gay, but god has a plan everytime a someone dies from a preventable or curable disease? Which is the truth; free will or life plan? Religious zealots want to knock on my door uninvited and try to force me to listen to their gospel, but if I went door to door to spread the good word about evolution, then I'm discriminating against you and your god.
I don't believe in what you believe. I find no evidence for it, and not being able to prove it wrong does not prove it right. However, I have fought and would fight again for your right to believe in what want, but I demand the same amount of respect.
Don't tell me what to believe or how to live, and I'll return the favor.
Submitted by gonefiguring (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:20:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:21:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Man murdered neaderthal long before he got all full of religion.
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Maybe men worshipped Sun Gods and Moon Gods and Tree Gods and such back when Neanderthals were around, and men killed them for not worshipping the same Gods. It would fit the pattern of our subsequent history perfectly.
Submitted by Toddler (user info) at 2009-05-07 13:17:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Unfortunately, I am now drowning.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:40:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
grab some coffee Toddler, you sound like the brain I want to pick
Submitted by Toddler (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:27:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There are so many things wrong with this conversation, but I'm way too hungover right now.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:26:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
amen, Berty
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:21:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Man murdered neaderthal long before he got all full of religion.
Hey, I wonder if that was the inspiration for the whole Cain & Abel story?
Well anyway, religion ain't so bad and nor are the people who speak on their religions behalf. Even El Ron Hubwardo just wanted to fuck more hot chicks and have more drugs than he'd otherwise have been able to as an author, which is something I think we can all get behind.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:21:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
fucking lol @ quint bringing it all together at the end.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:18:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:14:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
religion, any of them had such potential for good, but the human factor and grab for power is where it all falls apart.
they all start with the same premise of
Hi I'm god, I made everything
I love you as my kids and I want you to love me back.
I wont MAKE you worship or even believe in me because If I MAKE you do that, how is that real love?
go play and dont be mean to each other.
remmember I love you.
once people found they can control one another by speaking for god (but not realy)
things started failing.
====================
dude I think you just answered your own question of why people have a problem with God.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:14:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
religion, any of them had such potential for good, but the human factor and grab for power is where it all falls apart.
they all start with the same premise of
Hi I'm god, I made everything
I love you as my kids and I want you to love me back.
I wont MAKE you worship or even believe in me because If I MAKE you do that, how is that real love?
go play and dont be mean to each other.
remmember I love you.
once people found they can control one another by speaking for god (but not realy)
things started failing.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:04:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think it has to do with America. They seem to have been in a sort of crisis of faith since the nation's first settlers landed on the shore and it is reflected extensively in pop culture; stuff like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dungeons and Dragons, the weird and recurring theme of spirituality appearing in science fiction and literature.
This, which is in and of itself quite fascinating, is coupled with recent preoccupation in western culture with Islam. Furthermore the time is set against a backdrop of the dawning of a new age of mankind with technology forming a spectre of change as genetic engineering, cybernetics and advanced computational mechanisms poise to sweep civilised society in waves.
Finally there is the aftermath of the world wars which inspired tremendous fear in all; as millions died on the land, sea and in the air everyone learnt the true meaning of the word Armageddon. The aftermath for which the epilogue was the nuclear bomb.
Ours is very much a generation between answers, and when one does not have answers religion, and the God that goes with it, seems a perfectly valid point for discussion.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:03:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think native americans had it right.
The earth is the giver and taker of life, respect it and give back to it, or it will fuck you up.
Thats a hell of alot more believable than some bearded white man thats gonna punish me if I dont follow his rules.
Submitted by Yozz (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:01:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Submitted by Quint (user info) at 2009-05-07 12:01:41 EDT (#)
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There is nothing wrong with religion, rather it is organized religion that has driven people away from their faith. Be it religious leaders or simly other followers, it is the people that are the problem. I mean, the Catholic Church is STILL refusing to allow it's African members to use condoms, despite the spread of AIDS in that continent. Many Islamic clerics issues death fatwas on anyone that "offends" their religion. These acts can't possibly be what an "all-loving" God wants. Rather they seem to be the acts of people clinging to power.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix
Despite contradicitons in scriptures, you have some that demand strict adhereance to the Bible, Koran, etc. For example, The Koran stating that it is OK to kill people who leave the religion. And the Bible stating it is OK to kill gays, women who aren't virgins on their wedding night, etc. That shit does not jive with our society anymore. We are no longer unwashed masses thta need a leader to tell us how to live our lives. The free flow of information has liberated us. Religious leaders need to stop trying to influence people how to live and stick to telling their stories. If someone disagrees, fine. Let them "pay the price in the afterlife". But don't csampaign for laws that support your thinking at the expense of our freedoms.
People may believe in God, but the actions of religious institutions have made it easier to call oneself an athesist and alienate those that openly follow a religion. Most of you in the United States (especially the Bible Belt) still live in a society where openly declaring your faith is acceptable. Here in Canada, most areas are very secular and open displays of relgion, especially Christianity, are not favourable.
Besides, until a religion says it is OK for me to assfuck Method's Mom while doing a line of coke off her tits, count me an unbeliever.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:59:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I call God "he" like people call a ship "she"
gender dosent realy apply as far as I'm concerned.
you're right, men run the church so god's a dude.
go watch "Dogma" for a nice interpretation of God.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:58:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Vader follows that line by using the Force to strangle the guy. That does not instill belief in the Force in the guy, that proves the reality of the Force to the guy so the guy will from then on have faith in the Force because he has experienced it to be real.
Faith in God requires true belief, which must be without proof because God offers no proof testable by Man. Says so in every one of the books I've read that purport to be an account of what God wants us to do.
I have faith in gravity, because when I drop this pencil it falls onto the desk. If I pick it up and let it go 100 times, I predict it will fall onto the desk 100 times. It works every time, and that means it's as close to proven as a theory can be. One day perhaps the pencil will float off or fall sideways, but until then I have faith in gravity.
My mom has faith in God. She sees God in every blade of grass or star in the sky. If you tell her that most of the 'stars' you see are actually galaxies made up of billions of stars and the light you're seeing is millions, possibly billions of years old, she says, "You see how great is God?" Grass grows from seeds. Galaxies grow from dust. There's plenty of evidence that supports those theories. My mom's theory is that God created all of it, makes the grass grow and the galaxies form. Her theory cannot be proven wrong by science as it exists today, although there's no evidence that supports the theory (which can be separated from belief) either.
But one moment, a long time ago, there was no life in the Universe. The next moment, there was. If God ever offered any testable evidence that He exists, it was in the space between those two moments. But alas, there was no one around to see the proof until after the moment passed.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:55:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:49:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
he loves you Sgt.
====================
You magnificent bastard you. If its true, I hope "he" does.
Isnt it funny how you call God a "HE"
That doesnt disturb you in the least? to me its a really strong indicator of the patriarchal culture that constructed the bible...they obviously would never concede that a woman could be a deity! and dont give me that "virgin mother was basically a deity" bullshit either, Mary was made an object of worship by the catholic church. What if they got it wrong and God was a woman, thereby meaning you have been worshiping the wrong thing all your life simply because the information you base your faith on was written by a culture that treated women like dogs?
Submitted by Toddler (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:51:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Err... WAT? God doesn't exist.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:49:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
he loves you Sgt.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:48:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/121640
He finds YOUR lack of faith disturbing FALLEN.
be afraid, be very afraid.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:48:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
did you read my linked post?
it's awsome.
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:44:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
FALLEN
i actually meant my boobie picture on my post.
i love that squirrel and would much rather stare at him than discuss god for the bazillionith time around here.
Submitted by Maddog (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:41:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Deus ex machina
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:40:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Dude, you know how I feel about this.
I dont knock those that believe, being that they believe for any decent and intelligent reason.
Those with blind maniacal "convert everyone and everyting that breathes to christianity" scare me to bits.
I was raised and confirmed as a Lutheran, no touching involved. Once I was old enough I just started really thinking about what alot of christianity is based on. Meaning the undeniable history of control, lying, deceiving the masses, inventing rules where it suited them, enforcing those rules without mercy in some cases, and trying to convert the planet to conform with their way of thinking.
I guess you could say that my problem isnt with God itself, but really with those who wish to force him (or it) down our throats in hopes of "saving us"
My Father said something to me when I was young and bitching about how he never had to go to church when my Mother dragged us there, He said.
" A long time ago, I made a decision that I dont need a building (meaning a church) to have a relationship with God, I have a relationship with God every single day. Me and God are good. "
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:40:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
eh... i have no anger at religion.
sometimes others blind faith and allegiance to a concept that seems so absurd to me makes me feel a bit tired though.
religion is like politics... it looks really good on paper, but once you put humans into the mix it all goes to shit.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:35:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I agree Scourge but why the anger if you get pissed at a religion It's not Gods fault.
if you chose not to believe thats ok too, the whole free will concept is what that is about.
Mysti about your boobies, http://www.ubersite.com/m/114215
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:32:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
that said, i firmly believe that HOW you allow your religious/philosophical/whatever beliefs to shape your bahaviours as a person is infinitely more important than the beliefs themselves.
Submitted by mystiamoon (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:31:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
+2 for the post title and first part making me bust into spontanous orgasm
-2 for God, religion, Jesus, Allah, or any posts soliciting discussion on the subject.
it's been done to death.
Besides why should I care what uberers think about God when I have my boobies to play with instead?
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:30:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i think it's because we no longer live in mud huts and have developed a better understanding of the complexity of nature that allows us to move away from symbolic explanations of things we didn't previously have the ability to comprehend (said symbolic rexplanations developed into a method of control over the masses... that's the part where anger comes into play for many people, including kaos_king, who you should have just named.).
Submitted by w_t_a_y_s_t_r_m (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:28:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I was stood having a piss the other day and suddenly started to panic. What if God was really a chicken, and I've eaten so many of those that were really built in his image, and we were just the sexy mutants that evolved? How pissed off would he be?
Then I shook off and washed my hands.
Since then, I realised that I'm too worried about being wrong, so I just wait and see when I die. And buy free range as a sort of compromise.
The moral of the story is, no matter how big the epiphany there's no excuse for poor hygiene.
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-05-07 11:27:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm dating god, I'll let you know if he is good in bed.
Scrap that, he is god, he is bound to be.