Smoking - The epitome of national selfless commitment? (731 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 1.21 on 33 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Leopold Bloom (View user info) at 2009-07-15 20:24:32 EDT
So I was reading the other thread about smoking in the United States army and noticed how the main issue to people seemed to be cost. People were arguing that if smoking was banned then it might save the US military a few bucks. They were arguing that tax money is injected into the US military and therefore costing the taxpayer money. Now I live in the United Kingdom where we have free healthcare under the National Health Service. However, a lot of people in their crusade against smoking have began the argument that "smoking drains money out of the NHS which is funded by our taxes!" Now anywhere else in the world where free healthcare from the government is available, I am almost sure that these arguments are put foward by individuals. Here are some examples:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8086142.stm
Betty McBridge claims: "This is money being drained out of the NHS as a direct result of something we have the power to prevent!"
Louise from London states: "Do think if you smoke, maybe you should pay some kind of premium for treatment if a smoking-related illness arises."
Which leads me onto the reason I made a new thread for this point. I am about to refute this entire argument and believe this truth should be universally acknowledged.
You see, the researches at Oxford University seem to have forgotten that everyone has to die. Without trying to sound like Bill Hicks, healthy people also get sick and die at some stage in their lives and also cost the NHS money. Here is a report of a study done in the Netherlands which shows evidence that healthy people's healthcare, as a result of living longer, is much more expensive ($417000) compared to smokers ($326000). Even obese people cost less to look after than healthy people ($371000). Here is a link to the report?
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/02/05/unhealthy-study.html
So smokers die faster and cheaper than healthy people. You're welcome, society.
User Reviews
Submitted by messmind (user info) at 2009-07-18 21:33:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yep smokers are efficient and great tax payers.
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2009-07-18 09:38:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-07-17 22:44:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2009-07-17 13:53:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-07-17 08:05:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by RoadSong (user info) at 2009-07-16 16:56:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Whatever happened to the premise that people should have "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
Drinking, cigs and drugs are personal choices and attempts to force people to conform to what others think should be resisted.
-----
Everyone want the benefits of choice but far to many people don't think it through or (more often) just won't accept the consequences of those choices. It's easy to say that drinking/smoking/drugs should not be regulated but if you really believe that you'd better be prepared to pay for your own rehab/chemo/funeral, because those are certainly among the possible concequences of your choices.
__________
I think I would prefer living in a country where people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions. I was also under the impression that America was supposed to work that way. (lol)
-----
Used to be that way here, a while back. Not any more. Now everyone wants everything for free as if they're owed it. What say we get an island and start a country? Dowhatyouwantbutjustdon'tgetitonanyoneelseunlestheysayit'sokay-istan, we'll call it. Or maybe Libertaria. I live in Florida. There're islands just lying around down here. I bet we can pull it off.
__________
Hey, I'm down. I have no problems with moving to such an island.
I think every country needs to just change its name to whatever they support. Like, "Ifyouhaveagirlwewillprobablyhavetokillitstan".
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-07-17 22:44:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2009-07-17 13:53:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-07-17 08:05:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by RoadSong (user info) at 2009-07-16 16:56:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Whatever happened to the premise that people should have "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
Drinking, cigs and drugs are personal choices and attempts to force people to conform to what others think should be resisted.
-----
Everyone want the benefits of choice but far to many people don't think it through or (more often) just won't accept the consequences of those choices. It's easy to say that drinking/smoking/drugs should not be regulated but if you really believe that you'd better be prepared to pay for your own rehab/chemo/funeral, because those are certainly among the possible concequences of your choices.
__________
I think I would prefer living in a country where people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions. I was also under the impression that America was supposed to work that way. (lol)
-----
Used to be that way here, a while back. Not any more. Now everyone wants everything for free as if they're owed it. What say we get an island and start a country? Dowhatyouwantbutjustdon'tgetitonanyoneelseunlestheysayit'sokay-istan, we'll call it. Or maybe Libertaria. I live in Florida. There're islands just lying around down here. I bet we can pull it off.
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2009-07-17 13:53:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-07-17 08:05:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by RoadSong (user info) at 2009-07-16 16:56:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Whatever happened to the premise that people should have "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
Drinking, cigs and drugs are personal choices and attempts to force people to conform to what others think should be resisted.
-----
Everyone want the benefits of choice but far to many people don't think it through or (more often) just won't accept the consequences of those choices. It's easy to say that drinking/smoking/drugs should not be regulated but if you really believe that you'd better be prepared to pay for your own rehab/chemo/funeral, because those are certainly among the possible concequences of your choices.
__________
I think I would prefer living in a country where people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions. I was also under the impression that America was supposed to work that way. (lol)
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-17 08:21:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
believe that you'd better be prepared to pay for your own rehab/chemo/funeral
--------
Don't people already pay for those things?
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-07-17 08:05:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by RoadSong (user info) at 2009-07-16 16:56:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Whatever happened to the premise that people should have "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
Drinking, cigs and drugs are personal choices and attempts to force people to conform to what others think should be resisted.
-----
Everyone want the benefits of choice but far to many people don't think it through or (more often) just won't accept the consequences of those choices. It's easy to say that drinking/smoking/drugs should not be regulated but if you really believe that you'd better be prepared to pay for your own rehab/chemo/funeral, because those are certainly among the possible concequences of your choices.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-07-16 17:11:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by RoadSong (user info) at 2009-07-16 16:56:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Whatever happened to the premise that people should have "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
Drinking, cigs and drugs are personal choices and attempts to force people to conform to what others think should be resisted.
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2009-07-16 14:58:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Interesting.
So far, as an American (21 years), I have spent $0 on healthcare (except for Bandaids (do those count?)).
Considering that my parents who are in their mid 50's, have not spent any money on healthcare in general (except Bandaids) for me, them, or any of my 4 siblings, I'm going to assume that society has very low standards for what they consider "healthy".
Maybe we should learn to take care of ourselves a little better? With Bandaids...
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2009-07-16 08:40:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yup, pretty much.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 08:33:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Old people are awesome. The only thing that worries me about getting old is the fact that we will NEVER EVER be able to retire unless we bring the Ukraine into the EU and the Russians won't let us.
Pesky Ruskies, not letting us steal the youth from the eastern bloc.
Submitted by Leopold_Bloom (user info) at 2009-07-16 08:28:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes yes! Logans run that's it. Oh God, it's been years..
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 08:27:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Logans Run? I don't think it was a utopia.
Now, A Brave New World, where the amount a woman had sex determined how good she was, THAT was a utopia. Or maybe a dystopia, I'm not sure, because I think that pretty much describes Nottingham.
Submitted by Leopold_Bloom (user info) at 2009-07-16 08:21:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
With regards to the pension burden, can anyone recall the name of that movie where people are forced to die after they reach a certain age? It's like a utopian/dystopian movie depending on one's perspective and they live in like an ideal island or world. It's pretty old-school. I would like to know out of interest.
As for smoking and it's passive effects, it's no longer relevant. Anti-smoking lobbies have, if you will, shot themselves in the foot by banning smoking in any public place as it makes the passive smoking argument, their main thing, nonexistent.
Sick days? I don't really buy that at all. That could be as a result of a number of factors. Stress, marital problems, alcohol, the cricket being on tv, the day after the "superbowl", to watch the live invasion of Iraq, because one simply couldn't be arsed - there are simply thousands of reason why people take time off work sick. If we banned American football, I bet the number of people calling in sick after the superbowl would drop to it's normal levels.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 08:07:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
What indeed? McDonalds should also recieve subsidies in order to reduce the enormous population drag factor that will be left from the final collapse of the manufacturing industry.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2009-07-16 07:56:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I looked into this too, after reading that same BBC report, and guess what, after checking the inland revenue's site on tax income in the UK....
Smoking cost to NHS = £5bn
Income from Tobacco tax = £10bn
so what they're saying is that they don't want that extra £5bn profit. Fucking idiots.
I pay through the nose for my tobacco, only half of which is required to treat any ilnesses that may cause me, AND I'll be less of a pension burden.
So what's the fucking problem?
Submitted by BranDo (user info) at 2009-07-16 06:51:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No Comment
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:51:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
An African importing bushmeat is like an American importing a Mexican.
Then again my bushmeat IS melt in your mouth gorgeous. At least that's what your mum told me.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:48:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 09:38:12 BST (#)
Ranking: 2
Tricycle is what I call your mum.
--------------
thats it, im selling you to Africa, where you will be sold as 'bushmeat'
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:38:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:36:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty, for a monkey, you seem very well versed in smoking..........do you have a tricycle?
-------------.
Tricycle is what I call your mum.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:37:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Locksly. The biggest drain on the NHS has, and always will be, old people.
Not smokers, drinkers, drugies or any other demographic more specific than the elderly. Besides, it's not really about money is it?
Is it? Is that all you're bothered about? How much it costs?
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:36:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty, for a monkey, you seem very well versed in smoking..........do you have a tricycle?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:35:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
If you took all the tax off of a packet of 20 fags it'd cost 50p. That means that the cheapest brand of cigarretes earn the government £4.80 with every single pack sold.
If a person smokes 20 a day then that means £1753.20 going into government coffers (ha ha) every year. If that person contracts lung cancer at the age of 55 and have smoked consistently since they were 16 then that means they have contributed £68,374.80 in tax applied to their ciggarettes alone. Combine that with the ammount of income tax they have contributed in their 39 years of working life, say an average of £4000 per year, £156,000, and all the other miscelaneous taxes they have paid will pay throughout their lives and you end up with a significant sum of money. More than enough to diagnose and attempt to treat the person for the 6 to 12 months before their death.
The government earns a ridiculous amount of money from tax on cigarettes. Now, I fully appreciate that the legislation against smoking has nothing to do with money and it never did. Non-smokers, who do not like smoking because of the smell of cigarettes and the sight of cigarette butts simply have proven more militant than the silent majority.
Used to be I could go out, get called a paki, watch a fight, smoke in pubs, drive home drunk at 80mph and throw empty beer cans at my irish neighbours house shouting "fuck off with your pegs!".
*shakes head*
It's no wonder people don't go out anymore.
Submitted by locksly (user info) at 2009-07-16 04:29:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This is bullshit - this argument has been debunked.
I can't remember where I read it and I only looked at the first hit on google but I think the main points were adding up the total cost which was impacted workplaces (more sick days) impacted families (young children being exposed to smoke).
The most obvious thing I can think of is smokers don't just turn 50 and die and never present to a hospital - they need to contract some form of heart or lung disease first and then die over a few years which is a bigger drain of funds.
google your argument and I'm sure you'll find the stuff i'm referring to
Submitted by Ducky (user info) at 2009-07-16 00:42:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-07-15 19:20:12 PDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 Bill Hicks.
_______________
<3 bill hicks.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-07-16 00:32:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Some years ago, there was a study that came out of Czechoslovakia, or, I guess it's called the Czech Republic now, or something,I'm old, stay with me, that said the same thing. The idiot smokers are saving the government a lot of money, because they tend to die earlier. Elegant in its simplicity. There was quite an outrage among the do-gooders, at least over here, and the story was squashed pretty quickly. Fuck it, if I cared, I'd go into a diatribe against the idiot do-gooders, but I'm going to go smoke, before I die.
Submitted by PlatinumScarecrow (user info) at 2009-07-15 23:28:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fuck Shlongy in his neck. And a redneck "HELL YEAH" to you, sir.
Submitted by Andrewd (user info) at 2009-07-15 23:12:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain..."
-Cicero
smoking is pleasure now in exchange for pain later
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-07-15 22:22:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9O1Cv7wudU
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-07-15 22:20:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 Bill Hicks.
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2009-07-15 22:10:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
true enough.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2009-07-15 21:07:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Third post on this boring-ass subject in the last 48 hours on Uber. You lose.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-07-15 20:47:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Some truth. A rare thing on uber. By the way, the taxes keep going up, and so does my Altria stock.