Health Care (1516 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: -0.64 on 132 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by cheerios (View user info) at 2009-08-06 02:42:45 EDT
Yes my friends, it's time for a political post. I'm really curious how many of you are completely braindead, and how many of you actually understand what's going on in America right now. I'm sure the conservatives on this site already know what I'm talking about, and a good deal of democrats too. Mainly the people of this country speaking out at town hall meetings against Obamacare, and just the new government in general to stop printing/spending new money that isn't backed by anything, the 8000+ people that showed up at a rally that the media reported was just a few hundred, etc.
I tend to watch Fox news, since networks like CNN and NBC are of course government controlled, and completely Pro-Obama. Fox is the only place you can actually get real discussion on the issues, not just hearing what the government wants you to hear. Anyways, I decided to click on a CNN article online, and am shocked at what I saw.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/04/borger.health.shouting/index.html
It seems that CNN is trying to paint the people who asked questions to the senators as extreme right wing republicans, when the truth is, they are just ordinary citizens trying to get info from the politicians about why the bill is 1,000 pages long, why nobody has read it, how much will this all cost, etc.
What they don't want you to know is the ENTIRE CROWD BOOED THE SHIT OUT OF THEM. It wasn't just a few crazies on the right! The American people are completely disgusted with the government, and all the polls show more and more people disapprove of Obama and his healthcare plan every day. I scrolled down to the bottom, and started to read the comments on the site from the bottom up to the top. I'll copy and paste some of them here.
BEGIN COPY/PASTE
--------------------------------------------
It's very difficult to envision a constructive debate when many members openly admit they haven't reread the bill in the rush to get to a vote. Much of the invective doesn't appear to be a direct result of concerns with the bill but a result of overall, broad disatisfaction with Congress, starting many moons ago with the passage of the Recovery Act which no one read. If we felt representatives were properly informed and knowledgeable there would be less invective, but since they have chosen to be ignorant we are left with little for a constructive debate. This resides at the feet of Democrats who were more interested ideology and meeting a deadline than meeting with constituents from across the political spectrum.
Most Americans have a jaded view, supported by many examples, of government performance. They see Congress and other government employees with benefits that exceed the private sector and realize that's all being done on the backs of taxpayers. They see Medicare, Social Security, and other institutions badly managed and on the brink of bankruptcy. They see more and more "czars" that are not elected or vetted. No, the invective is no longer about health care reform but about the overall performance of our elected representatives and the loss of freedom we all see in the future.
--------------------------------------------
People are upset because once again, the congress is trying to ram through legislation without reading and discussing the issues. And more importantly, they are spending money that belongs to future generations. That makes it fundamentally wrong at this time!
--------------------------------------------
This whole issue is partisan politics at it's finest. However, when town hall meetings erupt in anger it's because people are ANGRY. It's easy to blow this off as a political game, but there are definitely people out there in middle-America that don't think this is a good idea at all. They have a right to express their anger at this issue, especially when congress is a direct representation of the people. If they can't tell a congressman how they feel, then what good are they?
--------------------------------------------
And we CHOOSE to oppose the government controlling our very health.
It's obviously the correct choice since those who seek to impose the control have exempted themselves. Please--in all of your political analyzing--please address why our rulers in Congress are not subject to the laws they propose. Thank you.
--------------------------------------------
i find it fascinating that because people do not agree with the "new world order" in the US suddenly they are counter productive, launching shock and awe etc...have the dems decided we really are not a democracy and the rest of us are not entitled to our opinion...appears so to me. people wake up before its too late.
--------------------------------------------
END COPY/PASTE
There are tons more of those, you can read them yourself. Christ people, educate yourselves! I have been reading both sides now, the democrat news sites and republican news sites. Those of you who think Fox news is evil, or that Obama is a great leader, PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES. Listen to some viewpoints opposed to the ones you currently have. Do you really want this to happen to our country? Look at Canada's healthcare. It sucks.
In conclusion, America was founded when we rebelled against the oppresive British government. We have the constitution, the greatest document on government ever created, and as a result we have been the biggest, smartest, richest country in the world for over 200 years. We have had true freedom, problem is you all take it for granted. Ask anyone from another country if they enjoy being socialist, or led by a dictator. Because that's where we are headed if we don't stop this out of control government we have, which just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
And now, an unrelated picture:
User Reviews
Submitted by LoooseSprocket (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:22:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 10:26:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-10 00:45:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
first off, seeing as frog is a canadian homo that immediately discredits the videos i link to, just because the guy has a mustache, or he doesn't like the haircut....well he's just gay. plus he is canadian, and doesnt know anything better than his crappy "free" healthcare, and i'm sure he really doesn't give two shits about america, in the same way that non-canadians don't give two shits about canada.
===
i responded to your videos in length. and how would you know better about our healthcare? i simply rebuffed the stupid points the guy made in his "report".
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-10 08:53:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Well...it was something to do while drinking as many beers as I could before going to bed.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-10 03:27:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Okay, okay...
Game Over.
Seriously.
Whoever came up with this alter is brilliant.
But, now the user is taking things into the realm of plain silly. Go look into Stabkill, Indoninja & Skrapmetal. Try to run this alter in a more plausible manner. You're starting to lose us now. No one is this delusional.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-10 00:59:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
sandman, you're a worthless parasite.
kaos, i hope you get assfucked repeatedly by ACORN.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-10 00:45:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
first off, seeing as frog is a canadian homo that immediately discredits the videos i link to, just because the guy has a mustache, or he doesn't like the haircut....well he's just gay. plus he is canadian, and doesnt know anything better than his crappy "free" healthcare, and i'm sure he really doesn't give two shits about america, in the same way that non-canadians don't give two shits about canada.
lungfish, im impressed. i'll admit i saw that guy's analysis on a forum somewhere, and just copy pasted it straight into here, knowing it could be a bit exagerated and/or retarded. still though, the basic premise of my argument against obamacare and this oversized government still stand. this president thinks he can just do whatever he wants, even though hordes of citizens (such as myself) are very much outraged at the thought of rushing this bullshit through. you'd think he might just slow down a bit....i mean, whats the fucking hurry? he'll be the president until at least 2012, why such a rush to pass this healthcare, haven't you ever thought about that? why not wait a few months, rework the specifics a bit, and try again? Hell, maybe his ratings would start going back up.
Answer: HE DOESN'T CARE. He's passing this shit no matter what those "crazy republicans" think. He and his czars are power hungry assholes that think they can just make whatever major changes they want, just because of a stupid economic crisis. If you control the people's healthcare, you control their lives. Makes it a bit harder to rebel or speak out, doesn't it? It's the perfect foundation of a dictatorship.
I must once again ask....whats the fucking hurry??? Mr. Obama is recieving alot of disaprroval, and yet he continues to charge forward, full speed ahead. Fuck him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osFKsmjwe6g&feature=related
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-09 12:17:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Spam (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:18:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Lungfish doesn't muck about.
What say you, cheerios?
How does it feel to have your ass handed back to you with an arsehole the size of Afghanistan?
Makes me feel better about our system.
Can't figure why you idiots don't appreciate a thoughtful President.
If you hate Obama so much, send him over and we'll put him to work.
Or just send Lungfish.
-------------------------------------
It wasn't just lungfish, that frog caulincourt gave him a fucked him raw, too.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-09 04:03:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Two options.
1) Whoever is running this alter is doing a damn fine job, but seriously; stop.
2) If you ARE a real person, you should be immediately executed for being a disgrace to humanity.
Submitted by Spam (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:18:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Lungfish doesn't muck about.
What say you, cheerios?
How does it feel to have your ass handed back to you with an arsehole the size of Afghanistan?
Makes me feel better about our system.
Can't figure why you idiots don't appreciate a thoughtful President.
If you hate Obama so much, send him over and we'll put him to work.
Or just send Lungfish.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:02:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
21 and 22:
Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed an additional 2.5% of income
***Half-true; therefore half-lie. The tax shall not exceed the cost of the national average health-care premium. Therefore, 2.5% of income only true to a point.
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)
***Well hell, they're not eligible for coverage, why the hell should they pay the tax?
I guess he's right on this one. Shame it's a dud of an issue. I guess I'll quit. Pity.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:50:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
19 and 20:
Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option will pay an additional 8% tax on all payroll
It is NOT an additional 8% on "all payroll", it refers to 8% of the average (individual) wage. Huge difference. Huge lie. It's actually hard to tell if this payment is compulsory, but you can read it for yourself.
pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k who do not provide public option pays additional 2-6% tax on all payroll
-See above. Another huge lie. Still don't understand this section. Poorly worded and vague, but your author is certainly lying. 8% tax on all payroll. Jesus.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:35:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
17 and 18:
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE
Read fucking page 148. An employer CANNOT enroll any employee who opts out. Fuckin' hell.
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
He means pps. 146-147. Lie. This refers only to employers participating in the plan. Nothing compels employers to participate. See Sec 311(1) and Sec. 312(A.1).
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:25:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
15 and 16:
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against this Govt Monopoly
***There are exceptions to this, including PRACTIONERS' SERVICES. Other rates are to be determined in a manner consistent with Medicare methodologies (i.e., established law).
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.
***Lie. This refers only to physicians voluntarily participating who participate and agree to the rates, which, again are to be determined in a manner consistent with the Social Security Act. These points are nothing controversial, unless you hate Medicare.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:11:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fuck me. That last one was a lie too. It only pertains to people eligible for Medicaid but NOT ENROLLED IN ANOTHER PLAN. There is indeed a choice. No one who can afford and wants another plan gets enrolled in Medicaid.
Sadly, I must continue.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:06:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - YOUR Health care WILL be rationed
***Wrong. Talking about the plans under the public option again.
-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid eligible Individuals will be automatically.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice
*****Woo hoo! He got one right. Of course, being enrolled in Medicaid doesn't mean you have to use it. You could just, you know, die.
Okay, I'm done. This guy's a fucking liar, and I want you to admit it. If you do not, I will be forced to resume this rather enlightening exercise. I was ambivalent before, but now I'm for Obamacare!
Thanks!!!
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:00:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm starting to like the resolution, but I'm going to quit when this guy gets one right.
11 and 12:
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic apropropriate services Example - Translation for illegal aliens
***This one's almost true. Since illegal aliens are not eligible, however, it's just another lie.
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan
***No*** As PART of outreach program, "Appropriate groups" (defined in another section; I'm not looking) are to "educate and inform." There's no mention of signing people up for the Gov't plan. I suppose this guy thinks it would be more appropriate to keep the plan secret.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 00:48:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I looked at your picture again.
9 and 10:
PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange
***Outright lie*** This section refers to plans under the public option...not to other plans. The plans are discussed later in the section.
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare
Again, this is discussing plans under the Public option, not private plans. It's not rationing; three tiers of plans are proposed. Jesus.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 00:35:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
7 and 8:
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).
***Massive bullshit*** Here's the text (actually on p. 66):
(A) The term ''eligible employment-based
plan'' means a group health benefits plan
that— 3
(i) is maintained by one or more em-
ployers, former employers or employee as-
sociations, or a voluntary employees' bene-
ficiary association, or a committee or board
of individuals appointed to administer such
plan
This guy construed this a a payoff for ACORN. Wow...just...wow.
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control
Fuckin' liar. This just mentions the establishment of a public OPTION. Read it yourself.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 00:26:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You'd think this guy would get one right sooner or later. Points 5 and 6:
Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued
***Bullshit*** A stated goal is that an individual's "financial RESPONSIBILITY" (EMPHASIS MINE...DUH!!!) should be determined in real time (or "near-real" time). This simply means keeping up-to-date on the what benefits an individual is eligible for, which, again makes sense. A card "may" be required for this. Who the fuck cares about the card. You already have a National ID card. It's called your Social Security card. Oh yeah...the gov't already knows how much you make, assuming you file your tax forms. Not saying it's right, but that's how it is.
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer
***Bullshit*** It says no such thing. This section simply states that the standard for payment shall be electronic transfers.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 00:11:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Points 3 and 4.
Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose YOUR HC Benefits for you. YOU have no choice
***Bullshit*** Pg.42 states that the Commissioner shall establish qualified health benefit plan STANDARDS, which only makes sense. Choices are discussed elsewhere in the resolution; I wonder if your author will discuss these.
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise
***Double bullshit*** Read p. 50, then read Section 242. Coverage is for individuals lawfully residing in the U.S.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:40:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I've looked at the first two for you. I know I'm a loser, but there's nothing on TV, I don't feel like working, and I've got a case of beer. I'm giving you a point for that picture, which I like more and more.
Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure
***Wrong*** This refers to a study of large-group and self-insured health care markets. The report is due 18 months after passage. Do you really think the gov't is going to audit all self-insuring employers and report in that short a time? The word "audit' is never used; neither is the word "all". By my reading, the report is to CHARACTERIZE the reserves and solvency the markets, which will likely to involve statistical sampling. Besides, the IRS already has the power to audit whomever they wish, so even if this were true, which it is not, it would grant no new powers to the gov't. I'll admit this section should worded better.
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get
***Wrong*** This is an ADVISORY committee consisting of public and PRIVATE participants whose responsibilities consist solely of ADVISING the Secretary of Health and Human Services. They are granted no power and they are not, in fact, even to be paid any kind of salary...only per diem costs.
I'll keep looking. I might get a retarded post out of this.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 22:43:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Just found this from someone who read over the health bill:
-------------------
Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED
Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose YOUR HC Benefits for you. YOU have no choice
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise
Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control
PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic apropropriate services Example - Translation for illegal aliens
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - YOUR Health care WILL be rationed
-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid eligible Individuals will be automatically.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against this Govt Monopoly
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option will pay an additional 8% tax on all payroll
pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k who do not provide public option pays additional 2-6% tax on all payroll
Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed an additional 2.5% of income
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Administration (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same
PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgement, etc. Literally value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries
PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs
PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.
Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission-Govt will penalize you.
Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand
pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have option to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!
Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing
Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan
Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs patients
Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone?
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life
Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "advisory care planning consultation" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life
Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization Like ACORN?
PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage
Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2009-08-08 17:55:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have just received an account statement from my hospital for $12,000, and various breakdowns totaling $8000. If I didn't have insurance, I'd be $20,000 in the hole. I don't even think I've gotten all the statements yet. Holy shit.
I know I'm not adding to the debate in anyway. But holy shit.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-08 15:56:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And as for whether or not Obama's policies are helping the economy, I don't really know. What I can say is that the stimulus package has almost doubtlessly saved my job...and I hired two people this week to work on stimulus jobs, and other other bosses in the company have hired a number of other folks to work on stimulus jobs. And my as yet pitiful stock portfolio has more than doubled since early March. So...I don't know...take it for what it's worth.
Will the huge deficits incurred bite us later on? Very possibly. (One of my favorite idiotic quotes: "Ronald Reagan taught us that deficits don't matter." - Dick Cheney.) Ending those two fucking ridiculous wars would help us in that regard.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 15:10:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
obviously america has seen better days lungfish...and it will see much better days once we vote out all of these progressive senators, and impeach Obama....unless he gets assassinated by some crazies, which hopefully won't happen, but it very easily could.
Here's another example of how completely full of shit CNN is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xWGvdRQ9Q
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-08 14:52:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rachlis3-2009aug03,0,538126.story
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-08 14:25:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fear not, my delusional little friend. Real change is not going to happen, at least until the whole idiotic system collapses, which will happen someday, god willing. There are too many lawmakers in the pockets of Big Pharma, the AMA, and the Big Insurance. This is all for nothing.
Just out of curiosity, how many other countries have you been to? When you make fatuous statements like America is "biggest, smartest, richest country in the world," don't expect many people to take you seriously. Frankly, it makes you look like a moron.
I was in Canada for a week a year-and-a-half ago. What was weird to me was how happy and pleasant everybody was...and how not-fat they were...and every chick is hot up there. And it was safe to walk around the city streets at night while really drunk. Then I came back to America and everybody seemed fat and mean and ugly. And unhappy. And more than anything, fearful. Folks seemed happier to me in the UK and France, too. The Soviet Union, not so much, but it was fucking cold. I was only in Finland for a night, so I don't know. The chicks were hot, though.
My old large-breasted Italian ex-girlfriend said she felt sorry for Americans. She said we seem to be soulless.
Whatever...go on with your bad self.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 13:28:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://townhall.com/columnists/HughHewitt/2009/08/06/they_think_you_are_stupid__why _resistance_to_obamacare_is_growing_despite_intimidation_and_slander?sort=desc&comments=true#comments
Never mind, that link above was what forced me to split up the review...it treats that link as one reallllly long word. Get rid of the space after the __why and it will work.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 13:26:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You're actually serious!!! JEEEzus! You must live in one of those hardcore four-wheel-drive red states, out in serious Shake-N-Bake country. That's not your fault, but not listening is.
---
Actually, I live in a blue state, and I am 24 years old. Up until now, I have never had an interest in politics...it's quite obvious the signifance of this whole "health care debate" is a little more serious than just "right wing extremists" like the liberal media wants you to believe. For the past week or so I've spent ALL of my free time reading every website I can, liberal or conservative about everything from health care to government types, trying to take in all the information I possibly can, and you know what I've concluded?
Liberals like yourself are being lied to by the government. Thats why all the videos you believe in have to portray republicans as evil, its the only way their propoganda can work. We can't just be ordinary citizens exercising the first amendment, nope. As for not listening, it's you who has made up your mind that the government will fix everything.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334623330098540.html
Obama has said over and over that he does NOT want ANYONE, ANYWHERE, to change their health care provider--- let that sink in ---- no one, unless THEY want, need it, and apply for it provided they are not illegal aliens. Period.
---
Again, do some research. A public option would FORCE everyone onto it, the business owners will all dump their private insurance plans for their workers to save money. Obama has known this all along, it has been his plan since day 1. In order for it to work he has to make you liberals fight against the common american people, labeling us as "Crazy right wing extremists." The more the media tries to label genuine concern from ordinary American citizens as lunatics, the more opposition they will get.
And about American broadcasting: remember what I mentioned earlier, to get the only non bias news of the U.S., listen to neutral, non spoon-fed-BS-American stations. If you have Itunes, go to "Radio" --at the bottom of the Radio list, click on "Spoken Word". Deutsche Welle Radio Deutschlands internationale is a good one.
You can hear it in English, amongst other languages. There are other neutral Euro stations that are non-slanted/tainted. You will never, never get real, substantial news about Americam politics over an American broadcasting system. Never. (btw, Fox News it THE biggest joke of a "news" service of all time, bar none- even THEY have fallen into self-parody and inter-programing slamming of one another!! Christ!)
---
No thanks, retard. I think Americans can do news about America better than some European socialists. If the white house is overwhelmingly controlled by Democrats, it makes more sense than ever to watch Fox News to get a fresh, opposing viewpoint.
Part 2 of this review, below.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 13:26:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
PS/btw: After Bush wiped his ass on our Constitution and broke countless laws in doing so, Obama has been categorically reestablishing all of our rights taken from us by Bush since his first day in office. Closing the illegal Guantánamo Bay and ending torture is only one. What he's doing to help less fortunate kids--and others as well-- to get into college is unprecedented.
---
Stop believing the lies on CNN! Just the other day I saw them report that Obama is actually IMPROVING the economy, and creating jobs. They are straight up lying to you! For gods sake, stop accusing me of not knowing the facts, when you clearly have already made up your mind. After watching this very convincing liberal video, I almost changed my mind on universal healthcare.
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4092
Something else to think about: our troops get the very best health care, for life. That's all provided by our government, and it works. Another thing: I've never met a redneck who was not a republican. Ever. (To be fair, I have met a few republicans who weren't rednecks—-at least not ostensibly, but still corrupt good ol' boys behind their hedge funds.) Regardless, it is no coincidence that all the "smart" states are blue, and all the shit-kicker redneck states are red.
---
Again, this is what keeps the whole liberal movement alive: They have to label conservatives as rednecks, fascists, racists, etc. Your whole ideal has to have an enemy. Your party is one that tries to overthrow the republic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw
Had to break this into 2 reviews, wouldnt let me type it all as one.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-08 13:16:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by oam (user info) at 2009-08-08 10:27:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good thing I didn't vote for that douche.
---
People like you, that don't understand our basic federal election system, are exactly why we have the election system for the President that we do.
Submitted by oam (user info) at 2009-08-08 10:27:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good thing I didn't vote for that douche.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-08 10:20:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2009-08-08 09:57:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 03:14:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
last link for you idiots:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba669
private health care prices are skyhigh because the government has slowly been installing regulations over the years, this began long before the obama administration. eventually a dictator (Obama) would rise up and use the obvious failing private insurance to set up a government health care. easiest way to control the masses.
-----
So you think de-regulating private industry is the solution for health care? De-regulating the banks worked so well...
---
Hey, we can always spend trillions bailing them out, also.
Seems to be what the rich expect, nay DEMAND, now. Why produce better products or change the failing business plan?
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2009-08-08 09:57:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 03:14:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
last link for you idiots:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba669
private health care prices are skyhigh because the government has slowly been installing regulations over the years, this began long before the obama administration. eventually a dictator (Obama) would rise up and use the obvious failing private insurance to set up a government health care. easiest way to control the masses.
-----
So you think de-regulating private industry is the solution for health care? De-regulating the banks worked so well...
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2009-08-08 03:23:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 20:12:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
forthewin.....sorry pal, but where else am i supposed to get information from? CNN?? In case you weren't aware, this "news" station is completely controlled by the Obama administration. Stop drinking the kool aid, dumbass. Obama is a Marxist who wants to take away ALL of your freedoms and property. Fox news and the internet have been, and will always be, great sources of information untainted by the liberal media.
------------------
You're actually serious!!! JEEEzus! You must live in one of those hardcore four-wheel-drive red states, out in serious Shake-N-Bake country. That's not your fault, but not listening is.
Obama has said over and over that he does NOT want ANYONE, ANYWHERE, to change their health care provider--- let that sink in ---- no one, unless THEY want, need it, and apply for it provided they are not illegal aliens. Period.
And about American broadcasting: remember what I mentioned earlier, to get the only non bias news of the U.S., listen to neutral, non spoon-fed-BS-American stations. If you have Itunes, go to "Radio" --at the bottom of the Radio list, click on "Spoken Word". Deutsche Welle Radio Deutschlands internationale is a good one.
You can hear it in English, amongst other languages. There are other neutral Euro stations that are non-slanted/tainted. You will never, never get real, substantial news about Americam politics over an American broadcasting system. Never. (btw, Fox News it THE biggest joke of a "news" service of all time, bar none- even THEY have fallen into self-parody and inter-programing slamming of one another!! Christ!)
PS/btw: After Bush wiped his ass on our Constitution and broke countless laws in doing so, Obama has been categorically reestablishing all of our rights taken from us by Bush since his first day in office. Closing the illegal Guantánamo Bay and ending torture is only one. What he's doing to help less fortunate kids--and others as well-- to get into college is unprecedented.
Something else to think about: our troops get the very best health care, for life. That's all provided by our government, and it works. Another thing: I've never met a redneck who was not a republican. Ever. (To be fair, I have met a few republicans who weren't rednecks—-at least not ostensibly, but still corrupt good ol' boys behind their hedge funds.) Regardless, it is no coincidence that all the "smart" states are blue, and all the shit-kicker redneck states are red.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-08 03:14:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
last link for you idiots:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba669
private health care prices are skyhigh because the government has slowly been installing regulations over the years, this began long before the obama administration. eventually a dictator (Obama) would rise up and use the obvious failing private insurance to set up a government health care. easiest way to control the masses.
Submitted by catscradle (user info) at 2009-08-07 22:29:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nice picture.
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2009-08-07 21:01:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 20:12:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
forthewin.....sorry pal, but where else am i supposed to get information from? CNN?? In case you weren't aware, this "news" station is completely controlled by the Obama administration. Stop drinking the kool aid, dumbass. Obama is a Marxist who wants to take away ALL of your freedoms and property. Fox news and the internet have been, and will always be, great sources of information untainted by the liberal media.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/07/government_medicine_should_horrify_americans_97810.html
_____________
You rant like a crazy person who takes your conclusions about politics far too seriously. Lighten up, dude.
Also, why is it that you think the only source of information is mainstream U.S. news networks?
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 20:12:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
forthewin.....sorry pal, but where else am i supposed to get information from? CNN?? In case you weren't aware, this "news" station is completely controlled by the Obama administration. Stop drinking the kool aid, dumbass. Obama is a Marxist who wants to take away ALL of your freedoms and property. Fox news and the internet have been, and will always be, great sources of information untainted by the liberal media.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/07/government_medicine_should_horrify_americans_97810.html
Submitted by pandora (user info) at 2009-08-07 19:09:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-07 16:39:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
speaking of which, it kinda of amuses me...no, i think it's fucking ridiculous how people (not just americans) are willing to let the govt dump money in stupid hopeless shit like afghanistan yet they throw a fit whenever a domestic program that benefits their own people is implemented.
--------------------------------------
thank you
Submitted by X54 (user info) at 2009-08-07 19:01:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-08-07 13:04:27 PDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The argument isn't about the availability of health care. There will always be doctors.
The argument is the cost. This unnecessary plan will cost trillions of dollars. This will further increase our federal taxes and add more to our national debt. We don't have to money to pay for this, so they'll just print more money, which will devalue the dollar further.
------
NOT TO MENTION OBAMA WILL PUT GRANDMA OUT ON THE ICE BECAUSE SHE'S TOO OLD TO DESERVE HER OPERATION!!!!!!!!!
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2009-08-07 17:14:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
So you're absolutely sure that Fox News is the ultimate source if accurate information in this country?
And your arguments are backed by comments on the internet?
Let me repeat that: Fox News is your source of information, and you back your arguments with comments you find on the internet.
Anyone that ever takes you serious about absolutely ANYTHING is a complete fucking idiot.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-07 16:39:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
bob, perhaps the state cannot afford to add on to its debt, but on the other hand can the average household continue to afford rising healthcare cost?
i think that should be more the center of your debate rather than talking about socialism, canada and whatnot.
kinda reminds me of the early years of the war on terror...there was some bickering over patriotism and bitching about other countries when that really didn't matter compared to human and financial cost.
speaking of which, it kinda of amuses me...no, i think it's fucking ridiculous how people (not just americans) are willing to let the govt dump money in stupid hopeless shit like afghanistan yet they throw a fit whenever a domestic program that benefits their own people is implemented.
i supposed decked out soldiers blowing up sand niggers in central asia with awesome toys is more sexy than helping the less fortunate. how depressing.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-08-07 16:04:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The argument isn't about the availability of health care. There will always be doctors.
The argument is the cost. This unnecessary plan will cost trillions of dollars. This will further increase our federal taxes and add more to our national debt. We don't have to money to pay for this, so they'll just print more money, which will devalue the dollar further.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-07 15:45:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-07 14:21:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Caul,
Obama's plan is NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to universal health care, but is simply an OPTION to have your health insurance through the federal government JUST LIKE medicare and medicaid without qualifying restrictions. Right now there are age and income restrictions to use medicare/medicaid.
===
in that case, the comparisons are only to scare people since they have no point.
i guess i could travel to a random location in the US and "expose" a terrible problem in your system.
im gonna interview panhandlers in detroit and talk about the evilz of capitalism! :-O
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-07 14:50:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ceasespin.org/ceasespin_blog/ceasespin_blogger_files/fox_news_gets_okay_to_misinform_public.html
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-07 14:21:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Caul,
Obama's plan is NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to universal health care, but is simply an OPTION to have your health insurance through the federal government JUST LIKE medicare and medicaid without qualifying restrictions. Right now there are age and income restrictions to use medicare/medicaid.
What the conservatives are bitching about (and this is fucking MIND BOGGLING) is they are worried that the rich guys that run the private insurance industries and pharmaceuticals will BE LESS RICH.
That's it.
The people that stand to lose money are ass raping the politicians into fighting this so their bottom line isn't affected.
PERIOD. End of story!
The worst, the ABSOLUTE FUCKING WORSE, part of this whole thing is that the UPPER 1% of America's wealth has convinced a shitload of people with a fuckton shitload less money that this is a bad idea.
How?
Blind obedience to the cause. As long as the Republican politicians say this is a bad idea, the little neo-con herd will follow their flock leaders to the gates of hell.
Whether they can afford health insurance or not is not the issue but instead it is the goal to make the other side lose. As is American politics and that is why this country is failing.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-07 12:57:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
besides, is ObamaCare even REMOTELY similar to the canadian system and more precisely, Quebec's?
i haven't read his proposals but i doubt it's the same thing.
i think you should grow up a little, turn off your tv and try to see the gray zones in issues.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-07 12:47:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 11:22:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
here's some firsthand experience with canada:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw&eurl=http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/?p%3D551&feature=player_embedded
===
first a dude with a mustache, now some hyper faggot with a high pitched voice. your sources are great.
let me explain things to you...
i already told you, Quebec has BY FAR the worse heathcare of all provinces. not surprising he did his "documentary" there. it's not so much that the service is bad, but that it can get extremely confusing to know where to go and when.
first he picked a clinic closed on weekends. many clinics are opened on weekends so that's just dumb. then he went to the emergency for a wrist, which is dumb. he made it sound like triage is an awful thing, but it's not, it's simply having priorities...if you have anything remotely life threatening, you'll be quickly taken care of. in fact, i think the nurse should sometimes refuse some people. in a free system, you get a lot of overprotective mothers taking their child to the hospital for a runny nose, old people who feel lonely and go to a waiting room to chat with people and hobos without a place to sleep. my best friend was a security guard in an hospital and he told me half the people in the waiting room had no business being there in the first place.
anyway, then he went to a CLSC and ask for a blood test...but you go to a CLSC when you have symptoms about something and get treated for that. the waiting time is usually between and hour or two. you don't go to a CLSC for a checkup.
i'll give you that, it's hard to get a routine checkup without a family doctor. but then again, how many americans without private insurance will pay for a doctor without any health issues? think about it.
around the 10:00 mark, he says the Canadian govt but Quebec system is independant entirely, only using the federal funds. and it has a very unique problem. for a decade, the provincial goverment was so obsessed with the "deficit zero" that it made stupid cuts everywhere, including healthcare. they cut admissions in medecine and given the time it takes to train a doctor, we now live the consequences and a shortage of doctors. regardless, you can still get treated if you know where to go and when. i'll admit, it can get confusing and frustrating, but wth...i assume handling insurance paperwork is no fun either.
then he interviews a woman about her mother. first, doctors wouldn't openly admit such awful malpractice. perhaps the story is true, but remember she was (badly) translated. the way she spoke in french, she didn't sound very bright and very credible.
then the guy talks about taxes in canada. first of all, taxing is not the same in every provinces. remember, he is in Quebec, which has awful taxing but on the other hand, a shitload of socialized services. even daycare is socialized. while Alberta has no provincial taxes whatsoever. most provinces probably sit between those two extremes.
as for the cost of goods in canada, it isn't because of taxes. goods cost more because our currency was so low for a while (60% of USD). now it's more around 80-90% and businesses haven't adjusted their prices and probably won't. though canadian car dealers have started adjusting their price with our currencies. not only that, but canada imports a lot of its goods and probably doesn't have the transport infrastructure the US has due to its size and population. on the other hand, housing is extremely cheap in canada in comparisons, so i think it evens out. anyway, i'm not really sure what was the point he was trying to make with that.
in conclusion, i could explain you all of this more in details but it's futile. you clearly have no interest in understanding the context. your interest seems to be in comparing whatever you can cherry pick to push your argmuents. no comparison can be made since both of our country and existing system are entirely different.
granted, the canadian system has a number of problems. but it would require an analysis a little more serious than those links you posted. even then, i think the exercise would remain and you'd be best finding an american solution for american problems.
in short, mind your own business and stfu. man, it must suck to live in the middle east and have to deal with you clueless nosy fucks.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 11:53:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Please click that link I gave you below to youtube, and read the comments below. A guy called "blamerepublicans", whose posts sound extremely similar to some of the douchebags on this site, is getting absolutely ripped apart in a forum. It's quite hilarious. Why don't you guys go back him up.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-07 11:26:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I had universal health care for 9 years while in the Army. I never waited long, and it was excellent care. My wife gave birth to 2 children under that system. I had a torn meniscus, fractured collar bone, broken arm, and various minor problems. Never complained about the care. Always got my flu shots adn any other preventive medicines. I could see any doctor anywhere in America at anytime.
Point is, the military is an absolute, undeniable, inarguable FACT that a universal health care system works in America.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 11:22:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
here's some firsthand experience with canada:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw&eurl=http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/?p%3D551&feature=player_embedded
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2009-08-07 02:55:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So you disregard the words of someone with first-hand experience:
==========
Caulaincourt: Don't lie, you homo. I've heard about the "lotteries" your country has to see who gets to see a doctor that day. And the horrendously long wait. http://www.youtube.com/comment_servletall_comments&v=gdx_2cuPgQQ&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3Dgdx_2cuPgQQ
========================
To further "support" your point:
================
For those of you who are so afraid we'll end up with a health care system like the Brits or Canadians, ask the average Brit or Canadian if they'd give up their health care system. The vast majority wouldn't.
---
What a joke! Socialized healthcare is absolutely horrendous.
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html#canada
http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8903lemi.html
====================================
Your two links are just from wing-nut rags that cherry-pick headlines and include a high-school level essay unencumbered by data. When I was in graduate school (here in the States), I met a number of Canadians, and they all preferred their system. In fact, they were forced to pay cash for a student health plan though Blue Cross at this US university, but they still never used it and would wait until they went home whenever they wanted to see a doctor. No matter how many stupid links you come up with, it does not change the fact that those in Canada and Europe prefer their systems to our own and their choice is rational.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-07 01:53:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
forgot a sentence...
it isn't about who gets to see the doctor "that day" because...you need an appointment with a family doctor. so you go to a nearby clinic and see someone else.
enjoy your faux news.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-07 01:49:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Caulaincourt: Don't lie, you homo. I've heard about the "lotteries" your country has to see who gets to see a doctor that day. And the horrendously long wait. http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=gdx_2cuPgQQ&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3Dgdx_2cuPgQQ
===
lol, nice misleading.
it's not about who gets to see A doctor, it's about having a family doctor. basically a doctor who handles your file, does routine tests and refers you to specialist if needed. you need an appointment with a family doctor.
but fact is, for any occuring problems, you can get treated in a whole array of clinics, for minor stuff, or heavier problems in emergencies.
i'm one of the lucky few to have a family doctor. i haven't seen her in more than a year, yet i've been to a clinic several times this year for minor stuff with a different doctor everytime. average waiting time? 2 hours...max. they had the same exact file my family doctor has. i got excellent care in every cases. and i'm probably in one of the worse area in canada.
the horrendous waits are in emergencies. but what the people interviewed don't tell you is that they go to the emergency for minor problems. emergencies prioritize...so what do you think happens? ambulances come in for heavy cases and the fucktard with a runny nose sits there for 24h.
i went to the emergency and i had difficulty breathing last year, but nothing threatening. it took five minutes and i was already plugged with oxygen in a bed with a nurse looking over me and a doctor came right away.
i don't understand the american system and i have no interest in doing so. but yanks who think they know ours based on 10 seconds clips, yanks like yourself, are heavily retarded. that guy in your report had a fucking mustache, why would you even trust him in the 1st place?
if you don't know what you're talking about...stop embarassing yourself and stfu.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 01:44:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i apologize for slow replies...i forget to refresh the post in another tab before submitting my very long replies.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 01:41:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2009-08-07 00:18:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Insurance companies are spending millions of dollars EVERY SINGLE DAY to stop health care reform. That tells you exactly who is benefiting from the current system as it stands.
---
Ordinary citizens everywhere are PROTESTING against health care reform. Have you looked at the polls? Obama's approval rating is dropping fast.
The reason that health costs have spiraled out of control is because we have more than 40 million people in this country without access to preventive health care.
---
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=105899
http://townhall.com/columnists/LarryElder/2009/06/18/45_million_americans_--_who_are_those_guys
http://www.freemarketproject.org/articles/2007/20070718153509.aspx
People without insurance who can't afford to go to their doctors offices and end up in Emergency Rooms when they have no other choice. Public hospitals can't turn those people away and they end up absorbing the cost. It's also the reason trauma centers all of the countries have been closing. See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/28/577629/-The-Real-Cost-of-McCains-Emergency-RoomsInsurance-Plan for a good discussion
---
That link is completely irrelevant. McCain didn't get elected president, stupid. Who cares about his plan. How about staying on topic, Obama's current plan.
For those of you who are so afraid we'll end up with a health care system like the Brits or Canadians, ask the average Brit or Canadian if they'd give up their health care system. The vast majority wouldn't.
---
What a joke! Socialized healthcare is absolutely horrendous.
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html#canada
http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8903lemi.html
Those who would have enough money to get whatever health care they want, just as those with money can continue to do here. This health care reform isn't going to take away insurance or access to health care from those who have it, it's simply going to make health care available to those who currently can't afford it. In the long run this will SAVE us money.
---
Bullshit. Obama wants to put private insurers completely out of business. Come on, don't pretend that isn't his real motive. Save money? His plan is going to cost over 1 trillion dollars!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970204619004574324361508092006.html
But more importantly, it's the right thing to do. We are the only industrialized nation in the world without some form of government-subsidized health care. Life and death issues: fire, police, health care, simply should not be handled on a for-profit basis. Can you imagine hearing a burglar break into your home and calling the police only to be asked if you have "protection insurance?" Or calling the fire department and being forced to provide proof of insurance before they'll dispatch a truck to your home?
---
HAHAHAHAHA. Fucking hilarious.
Unfortunately, the current bill will not do anything to change the for-profit system as it stands. But it will provide a safety net for the 40 million men, women and children without access to health care now. Can I assume that those of you against government-run health care are going to turn down Medicare and Medicaid when you become eligible at 65?
---
Seriously man, I hope you have clicked some of the links I have provided, or better yet just search the internet on your own. Try and read as many facts as you can. Obama is NOT your friend.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-07 01:13:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
HEY AREN'T YOU THAT GUY THAT LIKES GLENN BECK?
No, but seriously, this is fucking retarded.
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2009-08-07 01:02:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you keeping well vd?
Submitted by VelvetElvis (user info) at 2009-08-07 00:57:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2009-08-07 00:18:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Insurance companies are spending millions of dollars EVERY SINGLE DAY to stop health care reform. That tells you exactly who is benefiting from the current system as it stands.
The reason that health costs have spiraled out of control is because we have more than 40 million people in this country without access to preventive health care. People without insurance who can't afford to go to their doctors offices and end up in Emergency Rooms when they have no other choice. Public hospitals can't turn those people away and they end up absorbing the cost. It's also the reason trauma centers all of the countries have been closing. See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/28/577629/-The-Real-Cost-of-McCains-Emergency-RoomsInsurance-Plan for a good discussion
For those of you who are so afraid we'll end up with a health care system like the Brits or Canadians, ask the average Brit or Canadian if they'd give up their health care system. The vast majority wouldn't. Those who would have enough money to get whatever health care they want, just as those with money can continue to do here.
This health care reform isn't going to take away insurance or access to health care from those who have it, it's simply going to make health care available to those who currently can't afford it. In the long run this will SAVE us money.
But more importantly, it's the right thing to do. We are the only industrialized nation in the world without some form of government-subsidized health care. Life and death issues: fire, police, health care, simply should not be handled on a for-profit basis.
Can you imagine hearing a burglar break into your home and calling the police only to be asked if you have "protection insurance?" Or calling the fire department and being forced to provide proof of insurance before they'll dispatch a truck to your home?
Unfortunately, the current bill will not do anything to change the for-profit system as it stands. But it will provide a safety net for the 40 million men, women and children without access to health care now.
Can I assume that those of you against government-run health care are going to turn down Medicare and Medicaid when you become eligible at 65?
*
It's cool to have a few, be it a VERY few, intelligent peep here.
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2009-08-07 00:42:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Sorry I responded below. I didn't realize you were an idiot. Now I know, and I'm not wasting any more time here.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 00:34:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Please, PLEASE link me to a website where ordinary citizens are debating why Obama's plan would be a great thing for this country. I'd love to hear some intelligent argument from the other side, but I can't seem to find any. And don't just link me to some bullshit article like this one.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/06/AR2009080603854.html?hpid=topnews
I want a page with responses on it.
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2009-08-07 00:18:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Insurance companies are spending millions of dollars EVERY SINGLE DAY to stop health care reform. That tells you exactly who is benefiting from the current system as it stands.
The reason that health costs have spiraled out of control is because we have more than 40 million people in this country without access to preventive health care. People without insurance who can't afford to go to their doctors offices and end up in Emergency Rooms when they have no other choice. Public hospitals can't turn those people away and they end up absorbing the cost. It's also the reason trauma centers all of the countries have been closing. See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/28/577629/-The-Real-Cost-of-McCains-Emergency-RoomsInsurance-Plan for a good discussion
For those of you who are so afraid we'll end up with a health care system like the Brits or Canadians, ask the average Brit or Canadian if they'd give up their health care system. The vast majority wouldn't. Those who would have enough money to get whatever health care they want, just as those with money can continue to do here.
This health care reform isn't going to take away insurance or access to health care from those who have it, it's simply going to make health care available to those who currently can't afford it. In the long run this will SAVE us money.
But more importantly, it's the right thing to do. We are the only industrialized nation in the world without some form of government-subsidized health care. Life and death issues: fire, police, health care, simply should not be handled on a for-profit basis.
Can you imagine hearing a burglar break into your home and calling the police only to be asked if you have "protection insurance?" Or calling the fire department and being forced to provide proof of insurance before they'll dispatch a truck to your home?
Unfortunately, the current bill will not do anything to change the for-profit system as it stands. But it will provide a safety net for the 40 million men, women and children without access to health care now.
Can I assume that those of you against government-run health care are going to turn down Medicare and Medicaid when you become eligible at 65?
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 00:16:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Some more sites with comments you should all read to help inform yourselves:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/06/obama-rallies-health-care-counterprotesters/comments/?cpage=2
I'll just copy and paste some of the things people are saying to here.
-----
We may have 50 mil without health insurance. 10 mil are illegals, 20 mil are people who chose not to buy health insurance and most of the other 20 mil are the slackers in this country who produce nothing. The 20 mil or so that chose not to puchase insurance are young and somewhat healthly. The decision to buy or not to buy is called freedom. This is a concept the whacky left knows nothing about. I am a diabetic and the last thing I need is the gov getting in between me and my doctor.
-----
This is going to backfire big time against Obama and the DNC hacks. To paraphrase a ---anese General from WW2, "They have awakened a sleeping giant" Americans are on to this and the more that Obama and the Dems trash everyday citizens, the greater the backlash will be. Obama is not the same person Americans thought they elected. All you have to do to see this is to watch what he is doing and not what he is saying. He has become one of the most arrogant, pompous and self important B.S. artists in recent memory. Who does he think he is? He may be President but all that means is that he works for the people. When he says he speaks for most Americans, he needs to check the latest poll numbers or consult with his congress (many who are running scared due to the clamoring of their cons---uents). He may be thinking of his November 2008 53-47 election victory but a whole lot of Americans have wised up since then to what his real agenda is versus all his campaign rhetoric. That agenda has turned out to be nothing more than the creation of a socialist America under total control with absolute power concentrated in Washington. I'd be willing to bet that if Americans knew in November 2008 what they know now, Obama would not have won despite ACORN's help.
-----
IT IS NOT 50 MILLION PEOPLE WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE! Read this article! Millions are illegal aliens and if we have another amnesty millions more of their extended family will get this health care too! AND THEY WON'T PAY A DIME! Educate yourself on this health bill. If you have any assets they can be confiscated to pay for all this while the low income and illegal aliens pay nothing! Do you want your home and savings account taken from you. How about your investments? That's coming! Do everything you can to stop this health bill dead in it's tracks now!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=105899
-----
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2009-08-06 23:37:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
cheerios, the fact that you quoted Berty's 6th grade, misinformed reply, denigrates your comment. From a world view, my response was the only one of any real substance. The fact that you could overlook that--puts you on his level.
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2009-08-06 22:48:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
10/10
Fantastic trolling cheerios, if only we all could be as good as you
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-06 22:22:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
wow, sad how many people on this site are completely misinformed....why do I even bother....only ONE truly intelligent reply, came from BLITZKREIG_BOB. I agree sir, there are many, MANY deeper issues of government corruption here that of course the Obama controlled news channels (CNN, MSNBC) will NEVER cover.
You people want to know the real reason private insurance rates are so high? As was said in blitzkreig's review, malpractice lawsuits are an extreme unneeded expense for the insurance companies. They have to spend a shitload of extra money to cover their asses. Also lots of little government imposed rules, such as not being able to get health care across state lines. Not even sure what kind of sense that makes....almost like Obama actually WANTS private insurance to fail.
People like rob_berg and kaos-king, you are beyond help. Get outside of your basement and try socializing with real people. Have a conversation with some folk in your town or city; chat it up with some strangers. You might learn a thing or two, seeing as this issue is on everyone's mind right now for obvious reasons. You'll quickly see there are very many perfectly normal people, democrat and republican, that are very opposed to Obamacare.
Berty: Obama is by far the most corrupt President we ever had, he comes from the Chicago political machine for fucks sake. He's not doing ANYTHING for the greater good of the people. He doesn't give one shit about you. And you're obviously a worthless piece of trash who owns nothing, if you cannot see how much Obama is working to redistribute all the wealth around. He would take all 10 of your cars, if you had them.
Skrapmetal: Thanks for leaving some reviews that actually make sense, as opposed to the angry retards like sandmantate drooling out laughable nonsense. By the way sandman, did you even click the link skrap gave you? Please STFU and click his link, thank you. We all visited your site, it's just some stupid nonsense about the Bush administration...totally irrelevant to what is happening today.
HurtByTheSun: Fox news is not controlled by the government trying to screw over the whole country...Fox news makes you EDUCATED about the happenings MSNBC would never cover. The only retard here is you.
Foolproof: Ahahaha shut up you dumb ass little commie. America has NEVER been socialist, and hopefully never will. Yes, you listed what the government has successfully managed...{Medicare/Medicaid, most airports, highways, the public school system, the postal service, firefighters (volunteers included). I could go on forever, the list is really endless.}
That's about it. Really, that's the end of the list right there. Please do go on, I'd love to hear this "endless" list. And anyone with half a brain can easily say with a straight face "OBAMA IS A MARXIST." Newsflash: Insurance companies, just like every other type of company, compete with EACH OTHER. There is absolutely no need for the government to step in. A monopoly is only when there is ONE single insurance company. Competition in a free market creates a good product with low prices.
This isn't even an issue of Democrats vs Republicans anymore. It's the people vs the government. CNN wants you to believe its these "crazy republicans" that are the enemy, that are just "bitter that they lost the election." As long as they cause us to fight amongst ourselves, we won't see the real enemy: Senators and congressmen passing laws that DON'T APPLY TO THEM.
Caulaincourt: Don't lie, you homo. I've heard about the "lotteries" your country has to see who gets to see a doctor that day. And the horrendously long wait. http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=gdx_2cuPgQQ&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3Dgdx_2cuPgQQ
and finally, potatomanjack, filledwithhate, cakes: SHUT THE FUCK UP, AND WATCH FOX NEWS. Honestly. I take the time to read and listen to garbage liberal news sources, the least you could do is watch something from the opposite side, I don't know...maybe learn a few things. I laughed hysterically while watching Rachel Maddow the other night.
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2009-08-06 21:13:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I tend to watch Fox news"
/
I stopped reading right there.
To get non bias news of the country, listen to a non American-spoon-fed-BS station. Radio Europe: if you have Itunes, go to "Radio" then at the bottom of the radio list, click on "Spoken Word". Deutsche Welle Radio Deutschlands internationaler Sender: (Nachrichten, Analysen und Reportagen rund um die Uhr!) ha, so that's a good one, or www.dw-world.de/radio.
You can hear it in English. There are hundreds of other even better --non-slanted/tainted-- news services as well.
You will never, never get real news about America over an American broadcasting system. Never.
PS: The American troops get the very best health care once back home, for life. That's all provided by the American gov. Just soomething to think about.
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2009-08-06 20:03:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Swedish girls are absolutely hawt!
This post, otherwise, is worthless shite-filled lies, part of what has been appropriately labeled "Idiot America" (http://www.amazon.com/Idiot-America-Stupidity-Became-Virtue/dp/0767926145).
Submitted by potatomanjack (user info) at 2009-08-06 19:45:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I tend to watch Fox news, since networks like CNN and NBC are of course government controlled, and completely Pro-Obama. Fox is the only place you can actually get real discussion on the issues"
Stopped reading there.
I mean... really? Seriously? Dude, come on.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-06 16:37:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
satire, right?
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-06 16:24:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The problem is that it is not a coherant plan for universal health-care and will do nothing to lower costs of medical care in the US. And in fact, the half public system proposed will only drive up costs with a bloated beauracracy without achieving anything close to good healthcare for all.
And your thing about Canadian health care sucking, you're clearly a clueless idiot. Canada has excellent heathcare and EVERY one is covered 100%.
But part of why it works is it is comprehensive and absolute, no two-tiered private/insured/public system, which inevitably drives up costs and lowers public quality.
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2009-08-06 16:17:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It comes down to whether or not as a country you believe we have a right to health.
"Abortion is morally wrong! Oh wait, I have to pay more of my hard earned tax money to keep him alive because his parents can't pay for his medication? Well fuck him then!"
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2009-08-06 16:14:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yes, despite the fact that Medicare/Medicaid is one of the most well-run government systems in this country.
Or despite the fact that current insurance companies basically copy/paste the figures for handing out money from the Medicare/Medicaid system anyway.
Submitted by Liquidice281 (user info) at 2009-08-06 16:00:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You morons elected Obama. Way to fuck shit up.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-08-06 14:10:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Healthcare insurance came into being during the massive industrializtion of World War 2. Before that, you paid your doctor the same way that you would any other professional like an accountant or lawyer. Insurance benefits became a way for companies to attract workers during a period of labor shortage.
It's spiraled downwards ever since.
I don't see anyplace in the US constitution where it says that citizens are entitled to prepaid healthcare, or for that matter a pension, a rebate for your old car, unemployment compensation, or money for school.
The fact of the matter is that all of these things have made us lose our resourcefulness as a people and lazily expect all of them.
It would be political suicide to try to take any of these things away. Remember that time that Bush proposed for everyone under 45 to start their own individual retirement accounts in lieu of social security? It didn't go well, especially once the media started blasting headlines like "Bush to eliminate Social Security".
Why are healthcare costs so high? Two words: malpractice lawsuits. Put a limit on the amount that can be sued for, and healthcare costs should start shrinking, or at very least, stabilize.
It would cost the US very little to enact malpractice caps.
Here's where it gets even more convoluted...
Who benefits from malpractice suits the most? The lawyers do.
The Trial Lawyers Association of America is a group that is one of the Democratic Party's largest contributors and backers, while the majority of the insurance industry are Republican backers. Rather than alienate their army of lawyers, the Democratically controlled congress is trying to cripple the insurance industry - at everyone's expense.
One of the talking points that the politicians who are for the government healthcare plan use is that 40 million Americans are without health care insurance.
Out of that 40 million; 18 million are illegal aliens, 10 million are eligible for coverage through their employer and choose not to take the payroll deduction because they're young and feel that they don't need it, and the rest are elegible for MediCare/Medicaid, but are just too ignorant or stupid to enroll in the program.
I won't even touch the control that a government bueaucracy will have over your life under this proposal. If your health and wellness are controlled, your life is controlled.
We absolutely do not need any more government healthcare programs, especially one as massive, controlling, and expensive as the one being proposed.
Reform malpractice lawsuits instead.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-08-06 14:01:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
something good, hartman.
something pretty fucking good.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-08-06 13:55:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
WHAT THE FUCK DO THEY PUT IN THE WATER OVER THERE?
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2009-08-06 13:51:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-08-06 13:32:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You don't scare me with your veiled 'threats', you fucking piece of shit. I've lived my life with the knowledge that it's likely to be a short and violent one.
Buahahahahahahahahahah I love this old "saying"...
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-08-06 13:49:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
those are some horrible sunglasses.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-08-06 13:32:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You don't scare me with your veiled 'threats', you fucking piece of shit. I've lived my life with the knowledge that it's likely to be a short and violent one.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:27:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:43:17 CDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18.
====
The only problem with that is there is no incentive for (yes, I'm going there) unsuitable/irresponsible parents to limit their births.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:22:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:13:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:07:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:03:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:57:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:41:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
---------------------------------
Where do you think they get the money for the medicaid system? Do you actually know what a socialized program is?
---
Yes, that's why I said that taxing for it is fine. I pay for Medicare/Medicaid every pay check. No tax return, however, no healthcare for immigrants. I don't mind paying for citizens.
It's just the principle of citizenship.
----------------
OK, so, point in fact, you don't actually know what the proposed health care bill is? Last I checked, and please correct me if I'm wrong; this is not a free universal system they are proposing. This is a public option that you PURCHASE from the government. There is nothing free about this plan.
---
No shit?
Did you even read the question I answered?
Go ahead. Look back a little. I'll wait...
Fell like a fucking retard yet?
-----------
No, I don't, because look at what you said in your answer; you contradict yourself. You don't want a free healthcare system, but you would like a system that taxes you and pays for healthcare: which is exactly how a universal healthcare system would work, but you don't want unemployed people to use that system; you want them to use a separate taxed system.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:13:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
*feel
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:13:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:07:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:03:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:57:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:41:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
---------------------------------
Where do you think they get the money for the medicaid system? Do you actually know what a socialized program is?
---
Yes, that's why I said that taxing for it is fine. I pay for Medicare/Medicaid every pay check. No tax return, however, no healthcare for immigrants. I don't mind paying for citizens.
It's just the principle of citizenship.
----------------
OK, so, point in fact, you don't actually know what the proposed health care bill is? Last I checked, and please correct me if I'm wrong; this is not a free universal system they are proposing. This is a public option that you PURCHASE from the government. There is nothing free about this plan.
---
No shit?
Did you even read the question I answered?
Go ahead. Look back a little. I'll wait...
Fell like a fucking retard yet?
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:07:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:03:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:57:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:41:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
---------------------------------
Where do you think they get the money for the medicaid system? Do you actually know what a socialized program is?
---
Yes, that's why I said that taxing for it is fine. I pay for Medicare/Medicaid every pay check. No tax return, however, no healthcare for immigrants. I don't mind paying for citizens.
It's just the principle of citizenship.
----------------
OK, so, point in fact, you don't actually know what the proposed health care bill is? Last I checked, and please correct me if I'm wrong; this is not a free universal system they are proposing. This is a public option that you PURCHASE from the government. There is nothing free about this plan.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:03:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:57:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:41:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
---------------------------------
Where do you think they get the money for the medicaid system? Do you actually know what a socialized program is?
---
Yes, that's why I said that taxing for it is fine. I pay for Medicare/Medicaid every pay check. No tax return, however, no healthcare for immigrants. I don't mind paying for citizens.
It's just the principle of citizenship.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 12:01:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
To clear this up; This is not a single payer system that they are proposing. This is a public option. As in, you buy your insurance from the government. People who live in Florida already have experience with a socialized insurance system. It's call "People's"; It's for homeowners insurance, and it seems to work just fine. In fact, depending on the area of the state you live, there is a 75% chance that is you live in Florida, your home is underwritten by the public insurance plan.
But Socialized programs are EVIL!
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:57:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:41:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
---------------------------------
Where do you think they get the money for the medicaid system? Do you actually know what a socialized program is?
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:56:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Free health care would be nice, considering that the federal government takes lots of my money and does pretty much jack shit for me. Whatever. I don't pretend to know anything about politics, but it seems to me that if just a small percentage of the money being spent on "defense" were diverted into health care and education, it would help improve the lives of A LOT of Americans, myself included. But what do I know? Maybe I'll move to Sweden, you know, for the chicks. And the free health care and education.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:51:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:14:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Click around to see the polls on how likely voters feel about the Healthcare Bill. A decent majority oppose it, for a variety of reasons. But since the current government clearly cares about what the voters think not at all, it'll probably pass and become yet another giant debacle that we have to repair when America comes to it's senses again. I am disgusted with this government.
--------------------------------------------
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/backfire-effect
Click on this link to see a statistical study that shows Conservatives are so full of shit that they will hang on to a lie even when presented with the facts. In fact, when given the the refuting evidence, they cling to the lie desperately. I am disgusted by this populace.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:47:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:20:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
And for a lot of you, this may be a disturbing fact: The Daily Show is not a news program. It's a comedy show. Stop quoting John Stewart as though he has a thought of his own. You people are worse than dittoheads.
-------------------------------------
This may come as a shock to the rest of you, but Fox News isn't a news program. It's an entertainment program. All the hosts are entertainers, and not journalists. So, maybe you should stop hanging on their every word as if they had standards and integrity. You people are worse than Westboro Baptists.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:14:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That is one group of pretty hot looking broads...
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:09:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I tend to watch Fox news, since networks like CNN and NBC are of course government controlled, and completely Pro-Obama. Fox is the only place you can actually get real discussion on the issues, not just hearing what the government wants you to hear."
HAHAHAHA!!! It must be Opposite Day!
You keep telling yourself this if it makes you sleep better at night, curled up tight in an American flag and jerking off furiously to the thought of bombing brown people.
Your petty little King Bush has fallen out of favor. The people no longer want to live in fear. The Old World the you are so desperately clinging to is dead.
Submitted by TheStitch (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:07:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:41:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
--------------------------------------------------
That's probably the best idea out there. Please send this to Congress.
Post: -2. Picture: +3
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-06 11:03:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:20:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Also: Despite what most of you want to tbelieve, Fox News isn't extreme right wing.
===
i think fox news lack of credibility lies more in their method than their ideology.
they cut corners a lot. when you have people like O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck...whatever, it's hard to take you seriously.
i don't know about other networks, but you have to admit it's hard to beat such a dream team of demagogues, regardless of where they are on the political grid.
though sometimes i watch Lou Dobbs while i do my cardio at the gym and that guy is an assclown...lol
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-06 10:56:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hey look, two yanks (indo/foolproof) having a normal discussion.
i didn't know that was possible :-P
i don't have an opinion on US healthcare...it's your problem to solve. though i do think people could stop exagarating (SOCIALISM! omg!) and stick to the issue at hand.
i just wanna react to your statement that canada's healthcare system suck. it does not. in fact, the large majorities of complaints and horror stories your hear in your media on our system come from my province because we run the system differently...instead of being ran by the federal govt, Quebec provincial govt takes federal funds allocated for healthcare + its own funds and runs the healthcare system, but for a number of reason, it turned into a bureaucratic hell and past cuts have caused a shortage of medical personel which make waiting time at emergencies reaching record highs (some place it's 12-24h waiting).
anyway...swedish girls are hot.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2009-08-06 10:27:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I believe in universal health care. I know that makes me evil. I am sorry.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:57:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:48:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
But every time, EVERY TIME, Obama tries to do ANYTHING people scream Socialism. Bailing out the aotu industry? Socialism. But when the banks were bailed out by the Repubs, well that was just good for everybody.
----------------
I think the clowns sreaming socialism are louder now, but I remember plenty of people saying it when Bush was bailing people out.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:57:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Just about anything that has even a small chance of working would be welcome. I worked in healthcare for a long time and it's completely fucked, take it from me.
The group I felt the worst for is the working poor. These are not lazy people. They have jobs and they work hard at them. Unfortuantely the jobs are low paying and/or don't offer insurance.
So what happened a lot was that they made too much money (according to hospital billing departments)to qualify for assistance (discounting some or all of the bill), but not enough to be able to pay for their treatment. Even a simple visit to the doctor, plus maybe some lab work, put these people back several hundred dollars.
Don't get me started on the elderly people. Those poor people who worked a lifetime, paid into the system, blah blah blah, and they end up not being able to afford their fucking medications.
I want to punch something now.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:51:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
------------------
We already have that in the US.
Nobody gets turned away from an emergency room and nobody is arguing that they should.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:48:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:39:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Even the most rigth wing Bush loving, Obama is a secret muslim Kenyan thinking person has no problem regulating insurance companies. Politicians won't touch it because they are in their pocket, plain and simple.
You blame the lack of regs on wingnuts claiming "socialism" but back in 06 Bush tried to craks down on some of the lending practices and dems like Barney Frank led the charge against it. It isn't a right vs left issue.
I agree both are fucked, but it isn;t only the people crying socialism that are fucking it.
---
Oh, I agree totally. Don't get me wrong.
But every time, EVERY TIME, Obama tries to do ANYTHING people scream Socialism. Bailing out the aotu industry? Socialism. But when the banks were bailed out by the Repubs, well that was just good for everybody.
We have had a totally ineffectual government for YEARS and it's because of lobbyists and special interest groups that BRIBE our officials to no end. Even when one side has a majority, they blame the other side for stopping them when it is mathematically impossible.
Our government is the PRIME example why a free capitalist goverment in a society is nothing but a burden on the people that are represented.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:43:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
Of course, I think you should still be able to pay for private insurance. Yes, you still need to pay the taxes. I pay taxes for schools, and I don't use the schools. I pay for private school for my kids.
(Not: Hit return too early)
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:41:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
---
I think healthcare should be free to all children under the age of 18. They shouldn't suffer because their parents can't afford insurance. As for free, universal healthcare? No. Absolutely not. If they want a program where people are taxed to pay for healthcare, sure. But then, you have the nonworkers, and I think they should use the medicaid system. Illegal immagrants get nothing until they file taxes.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:39:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:52:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
If there were laws regulating what insurance companies had to pay, who they couldn't drop, and what they had to cover we would have an ever louder cry from politicians that the government is getting closer to communism.
There needs to be government regulations on certain corporations (I think Wall Street proved that idea with this latest fiasco), but the people crying "SOCIALISM!" would further gripe without understanding that it was in THEIR best interest because a politician tells them it's wrong.
The whole sysytem could be fixed if Americans had the ability to think for themselves without just siding with whatever their political faction decides their stance is.
That goes for both sides. Both parties are fucked.
----------------
Even the most rigth wing Bush loving, Obama is a secret muslim Kenyan thinking person has no problem regulating insurance companies. Politicians won't touch it because they are in their pocket, plain and simple.
You blame the lack of regs on wingnuts claiming "socialism" but back in 06 Bush tried to craks down on some of the lending practices and dems like Barney Frank led the charge against it. It isn't a right vs left issue.
I agree both are fucked, but it isn;t only the people crying socialism that are fucking it.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:30:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick litmus test for Fool and Skrappy: Do you think the idea of free healthcare at point of use is a good one?
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:24:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:09:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well I'm not an american so, fuck off.
---
Yes, how dare you post something country specific.
Unlike Apollo, Berty, Nath, etc, etc.
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2009-08-06 08:09:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well I'm not an american so, fuck off.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:52:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:46:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am not a hure fan of the public run option, but I realize our current insurance system is fucked. I know if it was well run it would be a huge step in the right direction. I have no love for insurance companies and due tot heir unique control of health I am for heavy regulation.
But as it stands how it is going to be run worries me. One of the house bills has the "public" option being contracted out to private insurance. How is that going to help anything. The profit of the big businesses won't be cut. In fact it would go up if they were the middle man. Plus we still have all the problems with private insurance because no bill tackles them dropping people, not covering things, and refusing to pay.
I agree with your last statement, that is why I don't trust any plan until I see the final version. No politician has the balls to take on insurance nd drug companies. Even Obama is bitching out (see my last link). All I see coming out of this plan now is more money in insurance company pockets, which makes the chance of real reform even slimmer.
---
If there were laws regulating what insurance companies had to pay, who they couldn't drop, and what they had to cover we would have an ever louder cry from politicians that the government is getting closer to communism.
There needs to be government regulations on certain corporations (I think Wall Street proved that idea with this latest fiasco), but the people crying "SOCIALISM!" would further gripe without understanding that it was in THEIR best interest because a politician tells them it's wrong.
The whole sysytem could be fixed if Americans had the ability to think for themselves without just siding with whatever their political faction decides their stance is.
That goes for both sides. Both parties are fucked.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:46:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:26:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I think a public run option is good, but only for the sole reason of creating competition for the monopoly that is held by the health insurance companies. Without any competition to challenge their ever rising costs, soon only the wealthiest of us will be able to afford medical care. The drug companies, in my opinion, are not really a problem. I have the option of getting a generic brand. I do get that generic brand for my levothyroxine and it costs about $75 less a month. I don't see a lot of people running to the government controlled sysytem, but just having it there as an option will take some wind out of the sails of the big companies.
That is what is being fought. It's not about socialism, it's about profit for big businesses that lobby (read: bribe) politicans. With the threat of pulled campaign finances, the politicians get scared and start the he said/she said shit that is counterproductive to a Republic.
C'mon, people, we all know the government no longer works for the American people. How about we stop pretending that they have OUR interest at heart?
-------------------
I am not a hure fan of the public run option, but I realize our current insurance system is fucked. I know if it was well run it would be a huge step in the right direction. I have no love for insurance companies and due tot heir unique control of health I am for heavy regulation.
But as it stands how it is going to be run worries me. One of the house bills has the "public" option being contracted out to private insurance. How is that going to help anything. The profit of the big businesses won't be cut. In fact it would go up if they were the middle man. Plus we still have all the problems with private insurance because no bill tackles them dropping people, not covering things, and refusing to pay.
I agree with your last statement, that is why I don't trust any plan until I see the final version. No politician has the balls to take on insurance nd drug companies. Even Obama is bitching out (see my last link). All I see coming out of this plan now is more money in insurance company pockets, which makes the chance of real reform even slimmer.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:26:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:33:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
While this post is garbage, so is the line of thinking that any healthcare plan with a "public option" (I believe that is the newest catch phrase for govt run healthcare) will decrease overall costs.
To really cut down on costs we would have to do something that cuts out middlemen (nothing in any of the current plans does this), allow for much more agressive bargaining with drug companies (the president has already agreed not to do this http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html ), and fix medical malpractice laws (I am not sure how to do this).
---
I think a public run option is good, but only for the sole reason of creating competition for the monopoly that is held by the health insurance companies. Without any competition to challenge their ever rising costs, soon only the wealthiest of us will be able to afford medical care. The drug companies, in my opinion, are not really a problem. I have the option of getting a generic brand. I do get that generic brand for my levothyroxine and it costs about $75 less a month. I don't see a lot of people running to the government controlled sysytem, but just having it there as an option will take some wind out of the sails of the big companies.
That is what is being fought. It's not about socialism, it's about profit for big businesses that lobby (read: bribe) politicans. With the threat of pulled campaign finances, the politicians get scared and start the he said/she said shit that is counterproductive to a Republic.
C'mon, people, we all know the government no longer works for the American people. How about we stop pretending that they have OUR interest at heart?
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:18:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I enjoy when people that don't understand Socialism talk about Socialism. Socialism has been alive and well in America for a very, very long time, with most of the citizens supporting it and reaping the benefits.
From Encarta: Economic and social system under which essential industries and social services are publicly and cooperatively owned and democratically controlled with a view to equal opportunity and equal benefit for all. The term socialism also refers to the doctrine behind this system and the political movement inspired by it.
Examples of Socialism in America: Medicare/Medicaid, most airports, highways, the public school system, the postal service, firefighters (volunteers included). I could go on forever, the list is really endless. Most areas now have neighborhood rules where a panel can decide what color your house (that you own, on your land) can be or what type of curtains can be visible from the street.
What I think most Americans are thinking of is Marxism or, to a lesser extent, Communism.
You really can't fault them, though, they just spout off whatever the popular rhetoric is without doing any research into the matter themselves. Just like the people that call Obama a facist.
Really? Why don't you pull out a dictionary, oh great political expert, and read to me what Facism is and then tell me, with a straight face, that Obama is a facist?
Submitted by RotAtoR (user info) at 2009-08-06 07:06:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Get well soon and take care.
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:33:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Watching Fox News makes you retarded.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:33:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
While this post is garbage, so is the line of thinking that any healthcare plan with a "public option" (I believe that is the newest catch phrase for govt run healthcare) will decrease overall costs.
To really cut down on costs we would have to do something that cuts out middlemen (nothing in any of the current plans does this), allow for much more agressive bargaining with drug companies (the president has already agreed not to do this http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html ), and fix medical malpractice laws (I am not sure how to do this).
Submitted by Spam (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:21:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Your system is laughable and you are all idiots.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:20:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Also: Despite what most of you want to tbelieve, Fox News isn't extreme right wing. It just appears so in comparison to the MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, and all the other clearly left wing media. Most Americans aren't MSNBC-level liberal, so they see Fox News as at least somewhat providing information that the liberal news doesn't cover. And of the basic-cable news channels, only Fox News is doing so. That is why Fox News has better viewership that the others. It's the only choice for people who are not extreme left.
And for a lot of you, this may be a disturbing fact: The Daily Show is not a news program. It's a comedy show. Stop quoting John Stewart as though he has a thought of his own. You people are worse than dittoheads.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-06 06:14:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Click around to see the polls on how likely voters feel about the Healthcare Bill. A decent majority oppose it, for a variety of reasons. But since the current government clearly cares about what the voters think not at all, it'll probably pass and become yet another giant debacle that we have to repair when America comes to it's senses again. I am disgusted with this government.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:51:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i think nowadays because of television and travel, most Scandanavian countries tend to sound more American when speaking English.
It's all 'Friends' fault, damn those inoffensive one trick pony actors.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:45:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Did she sound like Bjork or that girl who does singing for The Knife?
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:42:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
well, for me it is. I cant really speak for her as she's swedish.
its not an interesting tale BUT I just wanted to tell someone
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:38:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You have not. Is it a happy memory?
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:33:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
have i told you that I once slept with a hot swedish girl?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:31:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The slap head in the background of that picture has no eyebrows. I like to think that he has shaved them off to make his head more aerodynamic.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:06:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
5
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:06:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
AMERICA! RISE UP AND RESIST THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A WELFARE STATE!
IT WILL CONDEMN THE POOR TO A LIFE OF ADEQUATE PROVISION!
IF YOU ARE READING THIS AND OWN MORE THAN 10 CARS THEN A WELFARE STATE WILL MEAN THE GOVERNMENT TAKES 2 OF YOUR CARS! HOW MANY YEARS UNTILL YOU HAVE NO CARS AT ALL!!!????
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:04:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
those girls arent swedish BTW
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:02:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
God DAMN that Barack Obama for trying to provide healthcare for the poor and elderly! What other fiendish plots will he come up with to lessen the suffering of the nation?
Submitted by BranDo (user info) at 2009-08-06 04:02:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
unrelated comment
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-06 03:00:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Hooray for hot Swedish girls, though.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-06 02:59:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Belt buckle polishing mouth-breathing red neck goat humpin' cud chewing GOP retards like you give me an ass cramp.
This entire world is going to shit and the kind of inane petty misinformed indignant bullshit you happily barf out onto the screen is the reason why those select people who are much smarter than you continue to make scads of money and no one really gives a shit because who wants to talk about politics with a bunch of fucking idiots.
You are an annoying puppet. Nice work.
Go punch yourself in the meatsack.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-06 02:45:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I tend to watch Fox entertainews