Ten Tiny True Canadian Healthcare Stories (2913 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 0.88 on 169 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Genko (View user info) at 2009-08-07 20:16:43 EDT
1. When I was a teenager, I took a hockey stick in the face and had to get stitches. I waited in the emergency room for an hour. The total hospital bill was $0.
2. I had alot of ear infections when I was a kid. I was in and out of the hospital all the time and eventually I had to have surgery. My parents paid a total of $0 for the treatments.
3. I have never had a life decision influenced by whether or not I would continue to have health insurance. I am free to come and go, quit jobs and get new ones, move about the country, etc., without worrying how I'm going to pay for it if I get sick or get in an accident.
4. When I was 22, I got a suspicious lump on my penis. It turned out to be an infected hair follicle and it almost cost me a girlfriend. I went to a walk-in clinic to have it looked at and waited about two hours. The total treatment cost was $0.
5. I knew this lady named Stacey who had cancer. She never really waited for treatment and she and her family always spoke very highly of the doctors and hospitals that treated her. The family's total bill for her cancer treatments was $0.
6. I'm currently on the waiting list for a CT scan. I was told when I was put on the list that the wait would be about 8 weeks. I'm getting the scan so I can get a boxing license. According to the doctor, the wait would have been a week if they'd suspected a brain tumour.
7. When I was playing high school football, I injured my thumb tackling an opposing runningback. I saw my family doctor about it, he gave me some vioxx and sent me on my way. The total bill was $0.
8. There is a finite amount of doctors and medical facilities in this country. While I have plenty of money, there is no way for me to use that money to get medical treatment ahead of people who need it more urgently. Medical treatment in Canada is given out based on a triage system which prioritizes patients based on the severity of their condition, not their ability to pay for treatment.
9. When I was 12, I had my gallbladder removed. I waited three weeks for laparoscopic surgery and stayed in the children's ward of the hospital for two days. There was a little television next to the bed. It cost $7 a day to get cable for that little TV. The total bill for the surgery was $14.
10. I once had an allergic reaction to some plant material and one of my eyes swelled up and started leaking pus everywhere. I waited about two hours in the emergency room. The whole thing cost me $0.
User Reviews
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-17 00:06:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sure Canada's health system is fantastic. No, it's really doing great, really. If only we could do the same thing...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw
Submitted by yabbo (user info) at 2009-08-15 00:11:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-14 17:26:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Right off the top of my head, insulin, created at the University of Toronto. The lab doing all the testing on H1N1 for Mexico, USA, and Canada? In Winnipeg. Canada. BTW, that is also home of one of the leading cancer research labs.
STFU you uneducated yank.
========
Learn how to read, I said last 25 years. Proves my point when the only thing you can use is from 1921. And the hits keeps coming. So Canada has one leading cancer research centers, WOW.
Compare that to the number of top cancer centers in California alone.
Marcia Marcia Marcia. Go Jan Brady.
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2009-08-14 18:22:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
As the foam-mouthed masses in the US line up to scream about healthcare on the television, sharing horror stories of "death panels" and doctors looking for work, I am reminded of this fact:
I have been denied medical treatment for lack of insurance. Once, as an otherwise healthy 23 year old with a swollen throat due to infection. I was turned down at my local doctor, turned away at the clinic with a condescending "maybe you should try a hospital. They *have* to treat you, and they can bill you later." Nevermind I had cash in my pocket for the antibiotics, they were more concerned about malpractice and liability, and sent me away with a closing airway.
And once a few years before, after an accident had mangled the interior of my right foot. Mind you I was employed, but at the time of the accident I was still in a technically part-time position (at 39 hours a week) and could not yet BUY health insurance from my employer. That foot still isn't right.
So when I hear people speak of the "Death Panel" I have to wonder, does it matter at all when a doctor won't even see you? When aging ailing Bessie comes down with breast cancer and can't pay, does it matter what a committee makes of her situation?
I'm paying a fairly small price for health insurance, to the tune of about $130/month. It is for emergency use only, I have discovered. After eight separate phone conversations with Kaiser about when and where I can get the "yearly physical" their helpful website recommends, I have yet to be put in contact with an actual doctor. The deductible is $2,000 anyhow, so I'm just "eating right and exercising" and hoping for the best until better coverage comes along. I'm lucky; young and healthy.
It worries me, but we do what we can.
I mean heck, I pay for Medicare and I pay for insurance; between the two it's several thousand dollars from my little income, and I still can't see a doctor without breaking out the checkbook; provided that doctor is part of my network... I'm not saying I've got the answers here, but after working my current job for two years, and processing many many millions of dollars in claims from insurance providers (that's what I do, it's not pretty) I just can't tell you how very many denied claims cross my desk, even from hospices, and well-paid providers. It breaks the heart. If I had a nickel for every denied claim I've processed, I could finance Medicare/Medicaid myself.
All I can say is, I'm open to suggestions.
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-14 17:26:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Right off the top of my head, insulin, created at the University of Toronto. The lab doing all the testing on H1N1 for Mexico, USA, and Canada? In Winnipeg. Canada. BTW, that is also home of one of the leading cancer research labs.
STFU you uneducated yank.
Submitted by yabbo (user info) at 2009-08-14 16:52:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Canada. The Jan Brady of the North. Look at me I'm cool, you like me right.
It's funny how Canadian confuse public ,not free, health care with the best health care.
While it is nice not to have a bill, the public care prevents the best care from being applied. Since your hospitals are not allowed to generate profits, the must rely on government budgets for new supplies. This explains why many Canadian hospitals don't have an MRI machine. Hell in New Brunswick they share machines between the three "cities" there.
American hospitals do make a profit and invest in new technologies which is why the quality of care is probably higher in the US.
Can anyone name a great medical advancement from Canada in the last 25 years?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-14 06:17:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-13 12:54:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-13 12:25:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Quint (user info) at 2009-08-13 11:44:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Canadians suck! They may have free healthcare, but they also have free douchebags running around saying "Look at me! I'm Canadian!". I would rather part with every cent I have to get a hangnail fixed then have to deal with those assholes. Fuck you and fuck Canada. Especially Canadians in Vancouver. They suck more than other Canadians.
-------------------------
lmao
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-13 12:54:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-13 12:25:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Quint (user info) at 2009-08-13 11:44:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Canadians suck! They may have free healthcare, but they also have free douchebags running around saying "Look at me! I'm Canadian!". I would rather part with every cent I have to get a hangnail fixed then have to deal with those assholes. Fuck you and fuck Canada. Especially Canadians in Vancouver. They suck more than other Canadians.
-------------------------
lmao
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-13 12:25:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Quint (user info) at 2009-08-13 11:44:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Canadians suck! They may have free healthcare, but they also have free douchebags running around saying "Look at me! I'm Canadian!". I would rather part with every cent I have to get a hangnail fixed then have to deal with those assholes. Fuck you and fuck Canada. Especially Canadians in Vancouver. They suck more than other Canadians.
Submitted by Quint (user info) at 2009-08-13 11:44:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Canadians suck! They may have free healthcare, but they also have free douchebags running around saying "Look at me! I'm Canadian!". I would rather part with every cent I have to get a hangnail fixed then have to deal with those assholes. Fuck you and fuck Canada. Especially Canadians in Vancouver. They suck more than other Canadians.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-12 17:10:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
bubba funny...yeah
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-12 16:44:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:51:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:07:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZxa2D84IIo&feature=related
===
gay and boring
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:04:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6u-Ug_y98&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn
===
these "IAM Canadian" ads are embarassing. part of the enormous pro-canadian campaign that came after the 1995 referendum and cost us millions. and half of them are based on mocking yanks.
we got this new wave of patriotism, which is based on dissing another country (wow), because of people who didn't want to be part of canada. how weak.
i can understand defending our system, but this "pride" is embarassing.
-------------
They're funny, nothing more. Chillax a bit.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-12 13:04:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't get patriotic commercials for any country. like why would you spend money to say "we're awesome" but without selling a product. isn't that what national holidays are for?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:51:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:07:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZxa2D84IIo&feature=related
===
gay and boring
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:04:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6u-Ug_y98&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn
===
these "IAM Canadian" ads are embarassing. part of the enormous pro-canadian campaign that came after the 1995 referendum and cost us millions. and half of them are based on mocking yanks.
we got this new wave of patriotism, which is based on dissing another country (wow), because of people who didn't want to be part of canada. how weak.
i can understand defending our system, but this "pride" is embarassing.
Submitted by LoooseSprocket (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:20:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:07:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZxa2D84IIo&feature=related
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-12 12:04:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6u-Ug_y98&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-12 11:19:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
they changed the rules after i got in to school. no longer allowed to work on a student visa and have to have all the money up front for the year and it's to their level not mine. either way it came down to being too poor, yet again.
killing spree is looking better and better as an option.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 11:04:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:58:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and if you'd read what i said earlier, you'd see i don't support obama's plan. but being that i don't count, its passing has nothing to do with my (or really any citizen's) approval.
--------------------
Don't count?
I thought the move to soem western country other than the US was only in planning stages, or am I missing something.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:59:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
politicians are the first up against the wall. then lawyers.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:58:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and if you'd read what i said earlier, you'd see i don't support obama's plan. but being that i don't count, its passing has nothing to do with my (or really any citizen's) approval.
maybe i should've put "ideally" in front of that sentence. i apologize for the confusion.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:57:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:53:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
or all the money currently going to insurance companies at ridiculous rates all of a sudden go to the gov't at a lower rate. you know, like in sane countries.
either way his idea's nice but not a fix.
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
-----------
What you said has absolutely nothing in common with what he proposed or what is being worked on inthe house.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:53:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2009-08-12 09:05:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and measuring things in metric, don't forget measuring things in metric.
---------------
When I was in college I would have killed for metric.
It makes conversion so much easier.
Now I don't do real engineering work, so who cares.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:53:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 08:39:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
If it costs a bundle and we are already in debt, it is the worst time to do it.
If, as Obama promises, it has a net "0" affgect on the deficiet he will have to either jack up taxes, or tax the shit out of insurance benefits. So he is not telling the truth on it being cheaper. Which makes me question how truthful he is on the entire proposal.
-----------
or all the money currently going to insurance companies at ridiculous rates all of a sudden go to the gov't at a lower rate. you know, like in sane countries.
either way his idea's nice but not a fix.
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 10:52:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-08-12 09:02:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 08:39:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
____
You know that, like, every half-reputable country in the entire universe has had this going for decades, right?
----------------
This response is just as dumb as people screaming about socialism.
I am not saying single payer, or a public option or even SOCIALIZED (OMG!!!) medicine/insurance won't work. I am saying that every version of the bill that is currently being considered won't fufill the promises of those backing it and leaves massive holes that will burden Us taxpayers more and not improve care for most Americans.
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2009-08-12 09:05:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-08-12 09:02:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 08:39:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
____
You know that, like, every half-reputable country in the entire universe has had this going for decades, right?
--------------
and measuring things in metric, don't forget measuring things in metric.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-08-12 09:02:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 08:39:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
____
You know that, like, every half-reputable country in the entire universe has had this going for decades, right?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-12 08:39:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2009-08-11 21:47:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This whole thing is like its the 60s again and those old style "Socialized medicine is one step away from COMMUNISM" smear campaigns are working to sway Americans. I'm honestly shocked there is so much resistance to something like this. So what if it costs a bundle, you're already so deep in debt up your ears. Britian was bankrupt after world war 2 and the first thing they did was institute a way for everyone to get proper medical treatment. The US hasn't been in an at home war but the country and economy are as poor off as ever, why not get it done now and when things bounce back everyone will be the better for it.
--------------------
If it costs a bundle and we are already in debt, it is the worst time to do it.
If, as Obama promises, it has a net "0" affgect on the deficiet he will have to either jack up taxes, or tax the shit out of insurance benefits. So he is not telling the truth on it being cheaper. Which makes me question how truthful he is on the entire proposal.
He has recently been garnering support from insurance companies and drug companies. These aren't historically benevolent companies. The only reason this would happen is that he is planning on not taking full advantage of the new purchasing power of a public option, and he isn't planning on running th plan independent of insurance companies.
The only way this plan would work is if him and all the lawmakers working on it (or at least enough to get it passed) were ready to commit to saying fuck you tot he insurance companies. A successful plan woudl have to put most insurance companies out of business. No lawmaker is going to sign off on a bill that will end the job of tens thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people. If most of them coudl just eb absorbed up in the govt public option doing paperwork, then we might as well not change the system, because ti qwill be just as hosed up.
There are plenty of peopel who don't like this plan, not because of scary socialism, but because right now it is clearly going to be a huge waste of money.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-12 07:16:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2009-08-11 21:47:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
If medicine shouldn't be run by the government, why is everyone so comfortable with state run police, or government run fire departments?
---
Americans think like this because they are, by choice, ignorant of the terms they through around. Americans think we live in this glorious free state where you can do what you want without federal interference, while failing to realize that our goverment is unfathomably intrusive into our daily lives. Everything thing from what you can eat and drink to what you can read and watch on television is all very closely regulated by the government.
Now, with that said, there is a lot of good that comes from this; reasonably safe food and water, reasonably safe highways and air travel, and a reasonably safe living and working environment.
However, everytime somebody somewhere gets a bug up their ass about something they get a group of like minded people to DEMAND that the government step in and do something about it; transfats, tobacco, drugs, censorship of mass media, etc.
Now, while they scream and rant for the government to get involved so gays can't get married, that also scream and rant that the government doesn't get involved with healthcare.
America can be seen as a very unstable bi-polar mass of anger and ignorance.
Submitted by Premium (user info) at 2009-08-12 06:08:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-12 00:21:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I love how skrap has so much advice for Katy on how she can afford healthcare- because, you know, advice is free. I bet skrap was one of those people who bitched when Terri Schivo got her plug pulled.
I also love the irony of him wishing you could apply for MEDICAID and SS; because those aren't gov't run health plans!
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-12 00:19:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-11 18:08:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm not a drug addict, a financial meltdown victim, a housing crisis victim, a welfare mom, a drug dealer, a violent criminal, a scammer, a thief or anything else that would hint at not getting support from the country i help pay for. seriously, it's ridiculous.
-------------------------------------------------------
See, whether you actually are any of those things or not, THAT IS EXACTLY HOW HE SEES YOU.
Submitted by Tokerson (user info) at 2009-08-11 23:29:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I had a surgery to remove a benign cyst a little while ago.
I had to wait a few months, payed $0 for a $12,000 surgery, and recieved full workers' compensation for my time off work.
Submitted by Herpes (user info) at 2009-08-11 22:31:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
fuck the haters.
get you some meds.
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2009-08-11 21:47:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This whole thing is like its the 60s again and those old style "Socialized medicine is one step away from COMMUNISM" smear campaigns are working to sway Americans. I'm honestly shocked there is so much resistance to something like this. So what if it costs a bundle, you're already so deep in debt up your ears. Britian was bankrupt after world war 2 and the first thing they did was institute a way for everyone to get proper medical treatment. The US hasn't been in an at home war but the country and economy are as poor off as ever, why not get it done now and when things bounce back everyone will be the better for it.
If medicine shouldn't be run by the government, why is everyone so comfortable with state run police, or government run fire departments?
"Hello, this is statefarm."
"MY HOUSE IS ON FIRE, SEND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT"
"I'm sorry sir, you're coverage lapsed last month"
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2009-08-11 19:31:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No wonder domenad didn't fight in Iraq, considering all those wounded soldiers were helped by medics that were, DUN DUH DUUUHH, government doctors! No doubt he would've pushed those government cronies off of him and waited for his private health care to kick in as he slowly bled out.
Submitted by DanJaines (user info) at 2009-08-11 18:51:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-11 18:08:04 EDT (#)
Rankit's nice to tell people "oh just save this much per week" but i make about $350/week. i live in some fairly pathetic circumstances but even then i have bills and rent and saving at any rate is already incredibly difficult.
=====================how much does your inherent conniption cost? Do you NEEED the world war web to survive???
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-11 18:47:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-11 11:45:03 CDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-11 11:50:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You can't effectively provide a two tier health system. It is either public or private.
===
i disagree, look at france""
and spain.
i lived in spain for two years and there's was excellent.
I've also lived in France and in Canada and in Germany and by far the most complex and expensive was USA. But on the other side of the coin the taxes and social costs are lower here by far.
It's a cultural thing. Historically America has been about 'work hard look after yourself' whereas the older countries have a culture that we look after everyone even the willfully lazy.
THE POINT THE REAL BIG POINT THAT OBAMA IS TRYING TO GET OVER THE LOUD SHOUTY VOICES OF IDIOTS LIKE SKRAPMETAL IS THE FACT THAT IN AMERICA TODAY EVEN IF YOU WORK HARD AND PAY YOUR TAXES YOU DON'T GET THE GOOD HEALTHCARE.
People work 3 jobs all that don't have healthcare why SHOULDN'T they have a government option they can pay into and use?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-11 18:08:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-11 16:27:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
sounds complex below.
all i have to do is renew a healthcare card every 5 year and take a picture (which is synced with my driver's license renewal) and it pisses me off.
i wouldn't want to see how uneducated people who can barely read simple forms handle that much paperwork.
------------
oh you mean it's sane?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-11 18:08:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-11 16:12:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Inion - I'm well aware that a lot of health insurance plans are simply too expensive for many people to cover. You seem to be in the worst position as far as the current healthcare system goes: Working and making too much to get Medicaid, too young and healthy to get SS and Medicare, and only partially covered by an employer's plan. There are alternatives: a Medical Savings Account that you control and from which you can pay deductibles on your employer's plan. Secondary insurance that picks up where your employer's plan stops. It's unnecessarily complicated to set all that up, but worth the hassle. Your $2000 deductable can be covered by saving $40 per week in an MSA, and that's not taxable. $2K might break you, but $40 a week won't. If you're young and reasonably healthy, a secondary insurance policy probably wouldn't cost much more than that again. As an alternate, perhaps your employer offers increased levels of coverage. There are ways to get the coverage that's necessary without excessive strain on your finances. I hope you're able to capitalize on them.
--------------
look man, you don't get what poor means apparently. i already spent a good amount of time saving for what was supposed to happen and now won't. there already is a medical savings account set up and that doesn't make that ridiculous deductible. it's nice to tell people "oh just save this much per week" but i make about $350/week. i live in some fairly pathetic circumstances but even then i have bills and rent and saving at any rate is already incredibly difficult. and one good shitty car day or one good accident with something else or one person stealing from you or one good whatever is all it takes to knock my finances over. i get that $40/week is nothing to you, but that's gas and food for me. and a secondary insurance policy costs half to one full paycheck a month currently for me. like i said, i've already looked. i have to wait til i lose my job to qualify for that
federal poverty level is set at about what i take home after taxes. but since that's after taxes i don't get the benefit of being technically destitute. shit i can't even get food stamps or section 8. it is not anywhere near as easy as you think it is and you sit from an obvious vantage point where you're not worried about covering yourself should shit happen. as a taxpayer, i think my country is shit. i'm paying into a system that hasn't planned at all for the future of the nation and that gives me far less back than it should. i'm now looking forward to taking as much unemployment as possible until i find exactly the job or circumstances i want because it's fucking pathetic that as a paying, law-abiding citizen in my country i can't get the government to even give me a hand despite so far honest efforts on my part to be a productive part of this stupid country. and when i try to change countries cuz i hate this one, new policies were put into place to put me at roughly the same level of humanity in that country - ie, a bug under someone's shoe.
i'm not a drug addict, a financial meltdown victim, a housing crisis victim, a welfare mom, a drug dealer, a violent criminal, a scammer, a thief or anything else that would hint at not getting support from the country i help pay for. seriously, it's ridiculous.
hard work != pay off.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-11 16:27:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
sounds complex below.
all i have to do is renew a healthcare card every 5 year and take a picture (which is synced with my driver's license renewal) and it pisses me off.
i wouldn't want to see how uneducated people who can barely read simple forms handle that much paperwork.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-11 16:12:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Inion - I'm well aware that a lot of health insurance plans are simply too expensive for many people to cover. You seem to be in the worst position as far as the current healthcare system goes: Working and making too much to get Medicaid, too young and healthy to get SS and Medicare, and only partially covered by an employer's plan. There are alternatives: a Medical Savings Account that you control and from which you can pay deductibles on your employer's plan. Secondary insurance that picks up where your employer's plan stops. It's unnecessarily complicated to set all that up, but worth the hassle. Your $2000 deductable can be covered by saving $40 per week in an MSA, and that's not taxable. $2K might break you, but $40 a week won't. If you're young and reasonably healthy, a secondary insurance policy probably wouldn't cost much more than that again. As an alternate, perhaps your employer offers increased levels of coverage. There are ways to get the coverage that's necessary without excessive strain on your finances. I hope you're able to capitalize on them.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-11 13:48:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Our reputation does precede us, for good or ill. Mostly ill.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-11 13:45:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
cept for that part where the other westernized countries don't really want americans showing up and shitting on the couch.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-11 13:24:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wouldn't it be hilarious if so many Americans got fed up with the state of the health care system that they all decided to move to Canada? And then utterly laid waste to the Canadian economy and way of life? OK, maybe not so much hilarious.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-11 13:20:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-11 12:57:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
heres an idea - if you can't afford to live in america, why not move to canada, with their excellent universal health care? this country is overcrowded with illegals anyways, now we have the people voting in obama that want to suck people's bank accounts dry, and redistribute it all around as health care. living in america isn't easy, its called capitalism....get a job, or GET THE FUCK OUT. thank you.
------------
you, sir, are one of the best reasons to leave the country.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-11 13:07:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I would move to Canada in 2 seconds flat if I could stand the arctic winters. We get more than enough snow for me in Georgia.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-11 12:57:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
heres an idea - if you can't afford to live in america, why not move to canada, with their excellent universal health care? this country is overcrowded with illegals anyways, now we have the people voting in obama that want to suck people's bank accounts dry, and redistribute it all around as health care. living in america isn't easy, its called capitalism....get a job, or GET THE FUCK OUT. thank you.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-11 12:45:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-11 11:50:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You can't effectively provide a two tier health system. It is either public or private.
===
i disagree, look at france. and they have the best, according to some rankings i won't bother to look up.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-11 12:10:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-11 10:16:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Inion - I have this story. My dad, who is now 76, had both his hips replaced in the last couple years. The procedure used for both surgeries was a minimally-invasive technique that speeds healing. The total cost of both surgeries was around $280,000. Between his private health insurance and Medicare/Medicaid (for those who had forgotten, it's the current government heathcare plan), his total out-of pocket expense was $5000 for both surgeries. One of the problems is that many people cannot be bothered to understand what their health insurance actually covers, and even worse cannot be bothered to price competitive plans. Insurance companies love young healthy enrollees, so it's easy to find affordable insuracne with decent coverage when you're young. That gives you a history of insurance that makes keeping it when you're older easier. And there's always the existing Medicare/Medicaid to help with hospital stays, surgeries, and medications once you're old or if you're indigent. In the meantime, not all healthcare insurance is crap and having a private policy to cover in addition to/beyond what your employer-offered plan does is not that expensive.
---------------
first i should say i don't support obama's plan. i think it's just a bad idea and in the opposite direction from solving the country's medical costs and coverage problems.
$5000 would break me. if it was $5000 or live in pain and barely functioning hips, it wouldn't matter because i wouldn't have the 5k. right now, my deductible is 2k. that breaks me.
between my pediatrician/turning 18 and getting married i had no insurance and had no medical care. navy healthcare was awesome and truly comprehensive. when my marriage fell apart i had major issues getting the navy to pay attention to my problems since my husband was being a dick and i was only the dependent. so basically i had no insurance. by the time i got all that sorted i got divorced a couple months later and lost insurance again. that's where my current employer insurance picked up finally. they didn't cover me for 3 years because i wasn't a "real" employee for 2 and then i just wasn't picked up til the divorce since that was the technicality required to end the other insurance. i wasn't allowed to overlap.
my choices when this coverage ends with the job are cobra, saga and this:
http://www.charteroakhealthplan.com/coh/cwp/view.asp?a=3542&q=418268&cohNav=|
which is what i'll probably be going with. cobra costs several hundred dollars/mo. cobra would break me. saga is the state social services plan which doesn't cover enough that i'd be paying out of pocket for most things anyway. my purchasing power is essentially zero in the world of insurance. i'm young, not disabled, and until that charter oak plan came along (it's only about a year or so old) insurance was not easy to find or pay for, let alone decent insurance. you say it's not expensive but you have a much different idea of what expensive is than i do if that phrase rolls of your tongue so easily. i can't afford to drop an entire paycheck on private gap coverage which is close to what it is, i've looked.
i currently get medical treatment when i can no longer avoid it, as a lot of americans do, because of my deductible. my insurance coverage is so full of asterisks and fine print that it's a challenge for anyone of reasonable intelligence to understand what is and isn't covered. recently i had some bloodwork done, it gave me so many different amounts it was ridiculous. off the top of my head i remember it said billed amount was $600 and allowed amount was $135. and then it said i wasn't responsible for the difference and that $135 was taken from my deductible amount. does that make sense? the hospital billed for $X got $Y and yet i don't owe the difference? then why even bother billing for $X. insurance policies are full of crap like that. if i owned a business and billed $500 and got $50 i'd be like give me my $450. so why bill for $600 and then just write it off? cuz they throw around bullshit numbers that have nothing to do with actual costs apparently.
when my insurance dies with this job, i MAY get charter oak. their premiums are up to $250 which is out of reach for me without a job so if it goes that high than i'd be better off paying for everything but emergency out of pocket. and that's the other chance to take, if i can't afford premiums for private insurance and get into an accident or develop something like cancer, i'm just fucked. my choices are get treatment (which sometimes you have no choice in) and go bankrupt or just maybe die.
and that's what americans face when they're poor here. as apollo said, it's a great nation for those who can afford it. i know you THINK everyone can, but no, they can't.
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-11 11:50:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-10 23:17:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
no1hasdis - Obama says a lot of things, dickhead. 95% of it is BULLSHIT.
=================================
Tard boy, I didn't say it wasn't. I merely put out the sentiment, which I believe is true, and credited the source. Obama has lots of grand ideas, unfortuneatly both the system and his own inexperience and lack of ability with the details means for the most part none of it will be implemented.
Don't get confused, I've made statements about the Canadian health care system defending bullshit some of you are saying. I'm NOT defending Obamas plan. In fact, from everything I've seen so far, the health care plan being rushed through is going to be a disaster which results in piles of tax dollars going toward a system which will be ineffective at either lowering health costs or protecting the poor.
You can't effectively provide a two tier health system. It is either public or private.
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-11 11:44:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-11 10:16:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I chose Quebec as a representative province
==========================
Caul is right, using Quebec as a "representative province" is total bullshit. And no, it's not about using the cheapest either. It would be silly to claim Alberta as a representative province, as the government coffers stay flush on oil royalties and so they have less provincial taxes.
If oyu wanted to be representative, try using a middle of the road province like Manitoba or Saskatchewan.
Further, just taking the rate and plugging it in and saying he would have saved "X" amount of dollars isn't accurate anyway. There are piles of deductions in the canadaian system, and no one actually has the full rate applied to their earnings. Anything saved up in RRSPs is deducted 100% off your taxable income right off the start and these earning are not taxed at all. There are dozens of deductions for everything from dependents to property taxes and rent to capital gains. Hell, when working out your federal tax credits, one of the questions is "HAve you been employed at any time in the previous year?" If the answer is yes, add $1000 to your federal tax credit sheet.
Regardless, only a portion of tax revenue goes towards health care, there are thousands of programs in a country that use tax revenue, and if anything, the high taxes are due to graft and bureacratic waste in other areas. Our health care system, while not perfect (nothing is), works very well and does insure no one is left behind or bankrrupted due to health problems arising beyond thier control.
You frothing at the mouth, rightwing asshats can say what you want, but when it comes to deciding if the system is good, trust the people who use it. And as a high income (read highly taxed) Canadian who uses the system every year, I think my opinion is a bit more qualified. STFU.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-11 10:46:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
quebec has a lot more socialized services than the rest of the country. daycare being the biggest and most expensive difference with other provinces. electricity is nationalized, though that generates profits. we have more civil servants than anywhere. a unionization rate almost twice has yours. even culture is heavily subsidized to keep the language alive...
anyway...the governement is a lot bigger here than in the rest of the country. it's retarded to compare with QC but it's funny how americans always conveniently pick it to push their arguments
i'd probably pick Ontario but even then, there's just no point to compare tax rates without taking everything into account.
stop being such a patriotic douche and try to understand things in their context.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-11 10:29:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No, Caul, I won't stfu. Learn to live with that.
What would you choose as a representative province? http://www.taxtips.ca/marginaltaxrates.htm
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-11 10:26:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-11 10:16:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I chose Quebec as a representative province
===
fail
stfu
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-11 10:16:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Inion - I have this story. My dad, who is now 76, had both his hips replaced in the last couple years. The procedure used for both surgeries was a minimally-invasive technique that speeds healing. The total cost of both surgeries was around $280,000. Between his private health insurance and Medicare/Medicaid (for those who had forgotten, it's the current government heathcare plan), his total out-of pocket expense was $5000 for both surgeries. One of the problems is that many people cannot be bothered to understand what their health insurance actually covers, and even worse cannot be bothered to price competitive plans. Insurance companies love young healthy enrollees, so it's easy to find affordable insuracne with decent coverage when you're young. That gives you a history of insurance that makes keeping it when you're older easier. And there's always the existing Medicare/Medicaid to help with hospital stays, surgeries, and medications once you're old or if you're indigent. In the meantime, not all healthcare insurance is crap and having a private policy to cover in addition to/beyond what your employer-offered plan does is not that expensive.
Here's a link to the current combined federal and provincial tax tables in Quebec, Canada. http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/qc.htm I chose Quebec as a representative province. If my dad lived outside of QC (where's there's an additional tax), over the past ten hears he'd have paid enough in taxes to cover the cost of his hip surgeries 1.5 times. Because he has been retired for all that time, in the US in the same time period he paid less than half the cost of his surgeries. Add the mere $5K he paid out of pocket, and you can see that the current US healthcare system works far better for him than would Canada's.
From what I've read of Obama's heathcare plan [pdf file http://tinyurl.com/HR3200hcb and I encourage you to read it if you haven't] my dad's surgeries would probably not have been covered to any meaningful extent. The surgeries would be reviewed by a governemnt panel that would not only consider the benefits of the surgeries but consult actuarial tables to factor in what is basically a payoff for their investment. And since my dad is older than he's statistically likely to ever be and he's retired, there's little benefit to the government to spend $280K so he can walk around his house and to church, when thay can give him a $1K set of crutches to accomplish the same thing.
No, I don't think the US healthcare system needs a complete revamping. I think that some of those who use the existing one can learn to do so more effectively and use their purchasing power to make insurers increase coverage and reduce costs until the industry does what their customers require. There is no need for government intervention.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2009-08-11 09:07:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
=)
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2009-08-11 02:45:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Glad that lump on your penis worked out.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-10 23:17:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
no1hasdis - Obama says a lot of things, dickhead. 95% of it is BULLSHIT.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-10 23:06:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:16:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I just want to say, I'm damn sick of the white man keeping kaos-king down, mentally ill power!
Seriously kaos, my sister (a single mother) was diagnosed as manic depressive in her teens. She has never gotten a single cent from anyone for it. It really boggles my mind that anyone could get on social security for being bipolar. She can't afford medication, so she does the best she can to deal with it herself, I really don't get why you cannot attempt to do the same. From what I understand, you're not even paying your own rent by milking this crap.
Who the fuck are you to talk about what should be done with people's taxes when you don't even work? Perhaps if you lost some weight and got a job, you could find a decent woman to annoy and stop foaming at the mouth on ubersite. Maybe finish school and get a degree, do *something*.
You're over 30 years old, for fucks sake.
------------
Bwaahahahaha you're a worthless shit stain kaos
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-10 22:52:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
maybe...you should not be able to sue for malpractice AT ALL. Basic free market principles - if the doctor is bad or fucks up with too many people, we won't be in business very long.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-10 20:04:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
but prior to malpractice suits doctors did what the fuck they wanted and made some peoples lives hell.
even that isn't clear cut.
i would limit malpractice payouts so it wouldn't destroy a whole hospital but I would expect a doctor to be struck off for malpractice still.
even that is full of holes.
Submitted by DanJaines (user info) at 2009-08-10 18:04:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
don't get too excized there my friends from the frigid nether region.
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/medicinematters/archive/2009/07/02/
the-canadian-vs-american-health-care-debate.aspx
damn it you have to copy and place the link up there IN TWO PECES becuase cause this bulldink homo web sight won't take it all. YOu heare me you bitch!!! Take it alllll! LOOK
"Your opinion is very important to us. Since you have either submitted it in all capital letters or with reaaaaaaallllly long words, we will consider it to be that much more important. We would like to write you a personalized message here, but since you haven't figured out how to turn off the caps lock key or use the space bar, chances are you never learned to read anyway. Oh, and by the way, we find that there is no greater delight than taking a long hard one up the pipe on a Saturday evening in the water closet at that night spot down on the corner, you know, the one with the colorful awning and all the old men in ascots sitting at the bar."
Faggot suckdick bullshit it's is a link goddamnfuck it should paste!
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2009-08-10 16:15:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-10 15:43:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Most doctors aren't out to bilk you. They're just making sure that you can't sue them easily.
==================================
And malpractise lawsits are the biggest problem with US medical care and the biggest factor in the cost of providing health care. Before even attempting to construct a public health plan, they neeed to enact legislation to limit malpractise suits.
Obama once said "The country needs less lawyers and more engineers"
He was right.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 15:49:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i went to a clinic for a bronchitis three weeks ago. i noticed my file there is pretty big...i've had all kinds of health problems in the last two years.
i would probably be deeply in debt if i had to pay for all of these consultations.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-10 15:48:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sorry. Anansie already summarised by spiel with 'defensive medicine.'
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-10 15:43:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The reason physicians and hospitals seem to do unnecessary tests, or re-run a test that was ran somewhere else, is to cover their asses against malpractice lawsuits.
For instance, when I was still at in the hospital lab, and my hospital would get a transfer patient, that patient's records would be sent over with him/her, but my hospital's doctor would usually re-run the labs regardless of whether the other hospital had or not.
The other hospital could have run the test on the wrong patient, their machines might not have been properly calibrated that day, there might have been a status change in the patient since then, etc. etc.
The reasons are endless.
So, rather than risk trusting the other hospital's results at face value, they re-run the test to make sure. Because let's say the other hospital ran the test on the wrong patient and the current hospital goes by those results and the patient is hurt, BIG LAWSUIT!
Also, a lot of conditions and diseases have similar symptoms and manifestations to other conditions and diseases. So again just to cover their asses, the physician tests for a wide range of things.
Most doctors aren't out to bilk you. They're just making sure that you can't sue them easily.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2009-08-10 15:06:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:49:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yup or 4 sets of the same blood test in one day and a brand new mri test even though she'd had one (and had the disc with her) the day before.
Submitted by gascs (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:47:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have mixed feelings on this. I'm not sure about the government taking anything over, but I've had quite a few recent experiences with hospitals running lots of expensive, unnecessary tests for no discernible purpose when the underlying ailments were pretty straightforward and obvious.
A lot of these seem to be an easy way to overbill tens of thousands of dollars per visit.
----
I'm still not sure I needed the two different types of ultrasound after the MRI, even though I'd already had the same ultrasounds.
"Ok, that office just ran an MRI, the most expensive and accurate test possible, but we are going to do this test that is not as good, even though you've already had it done before the MRI, just to be sure! You know, since we have the machine and all."
I think it's called "defensive medicine."
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:50:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I can respect that.
The celebrity thing was just rambling, idiots tend to do this, you see.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:49:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yup or 4 sets of the same blood test in one day and a brand new mri test even though she'd had one (and had the disc with her) the day before.
Submitted by gascs (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:47:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have mixed feelings on this. I'm not sure about the government taking anything over, but I've had quite a few recent experiences with hospitals running lots of expensive, unnecessary tests for no discernible purpose when the underlying ailments were pretty straightforward and obvious.
A lot of these seem to be an easy way to overbill tens of thousands of dollars per visit.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:28:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yes i would
and i addressed that obliquley.
its not a celebrity thing its an i'm from liverpool thing and strongly believe the strong should protect the weak.
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:22:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
apollo, a serious question, certainly not trying to mock your situation or anything like that, but do you think you would have made the same decision if not for you and your wife's situation?
I'm just curious if you would, based on similar logic that leads me to think Michael J. Fox wouldn't have donated millions towards finding a cure for Parkinson's if he never contracted it.
Again, not trying to chastise, but it kind of makes me wish more celebrities would get AIDS. If Tiger Woods gets AIDS tomorrow, I say they have the whole AIDS business taken care of by the end of the year.
Anyway, just curious.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:19:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:54:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I just don't like the whole "government control" part. I'd rather not have some pencil pusher with no medical education make my medical decisions.
...and to the people saying that military health care is great, visit a VA hospital.
---
I said military care while in active duty is great. I'm a vet, but they only treat what I get disability for.
As for the "pencil pusher with no medical education make my medical decisions", that's what you get with private insurance simply because it's about profit. They will boot you if you become too costly to them. Then you won't get another company to insure you because some other company booted you. Then you have no insurance and have to pay out of pocket. Then you are in finacial ruin.
All for a profit.
Capitalism is grand!
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:11:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
duh! he's an internet.
not real.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 14:02:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:38:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fuck off autist - lock 'em in the attic
==
you said that about electro :-)
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:56:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Thank you, Apollo!
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:54:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
After reading apollo's response, I scrolled up slowly to see the Canadian flag waving in the wind.
It was epic.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:38:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i'm an employer and I am involved in putting together our medical plan.
I, me, apollo88 who you all know, had to make the decision whether we cover autism or not or whether to exclude certain drugs from our plan.
the most expensive drug was an MS drug that is $17,000 per month.
The system surely is broke if someone like me is tasked to make those decisions.
(I covered both - as I am leftist in my politics, have a cousin with autism and a wife with MS. But my default position is to cover. We make enough cash after all. What if I hadn't held those views? No drugs for you! Fuck off autist - lock 'em in the attic, *I* am okay. What if my yearly bonus depended on cutting benefit costs? It's wrong plain and simple.)
Having said that my experience with the American system is the standard is superb, if you can afford it. I've paid out of pocket over $75k for experimental MS treatments in the last two years, insurance has covered over $300k.
Those treatments would not have been available in the UK. I know, I checked.
There's no easy answer abd idiots like skrapmetal who shout slogans and don't give a fuck because THEY are alright don't help the debate.
Most american families are one bad case of cancer away from ruin. insurance or not.
This is would be a scandal in a middling european country but for the richest nation on earth? it's nothing short of a major structural fault.
I don't pretend to be certain of my view, those who do have clearly not understood the complexities, have had no real in depth dealings with the health system or simply don't care about others.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:37:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-10 03:12:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'll repeat this again. I am NOT on welfare. I am on Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) due to what 3 accredited doctors have signed off on what they conclude is a legitimate medical issue. This argument has been leveled at me various times in the past - it would seem that if my condition was that of a physical nature than, for some reason, there would little if any disdain. However, since it is of a psychological one, anything concerning the matter is invalid.
---------
on the other side of the skrap response, you shouldn't drink kaos. ever. at best, alcohol doesn't affect you but more likely it's acting as the depressant it is and fucks with your moods more than you'd like to admit. i'm willing to bet a lot based on personal/familial experience with psych meds as well as familial experience with alcoholism that you'd function better a whole hell of a lot better if you never drank. my dad is probably applying for ssdi based on a whole bunch of physical problems related to what his work was and mental issues, namely severe depression. he has pretty bad carpal tunnel but also he's just fucked in the head. i would not consider it at all inappropriate for them to suggest alcohol counseling (non AA) and monitored restrictions about booze.
i'm not an advocate for prohibition but there are definitely circumstances where one should not drink. yours is probably one of them. i would be surprised if your doctors haven't talked about this with you if you've mentioned your alcohol consumption levels, unless it's something other than what has been portrayed on this website.
i do say this with respect. i realize i'm just a person in a box.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:36:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah, hey thanks guys! Eh! And stuff!
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:31:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by peckerhead (user info) at 2009-08-10 12:40:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:15:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeesh, poor Anansie. That's horrid.
Here's a question for a Canadian: Are alternative treatments like massage, chiropractic, acupuncture, and other types of "eastern" medicine covered by your govt health plan? How does that work?
==========================================
Jeanneee, it's doubtful whether the alternative treatments you mention above are covered but this could vary province to province; Caul might be able to speak for Quebec.
On the other hand, if you get in with a good company, naturopathic treatments could be covered; orthotics (for shoes) are sometimes covered; eye-glasses and/or contacts are often covered.
If this info is somehow important to you then again, my suggestion would be to select the province (Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba etc.) and then start enquiring that way via google. Yahoo - Canada comes to mind and another great Canadian site which I'm sure will have a Health + diet link would be: canoe.ca
one more for good luck: cbc.ca
------------------
The Peckerhead is wise.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:21:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*workers, ugh.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:19:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-09 22:52:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ronald Reagan said it: The best welfare program is a job. Get a job, earn your way, and get what you want for yourself. That's what America was founded on. It's "The land of opportunity", remember.
------------
the reagan era was at the tail end of when employers valued their works, even including the recessions. now, people have no pensions, no retirement, dead since the 80s wages and no company loyalty. they have nothing even if they've worked all their lives. that's the problem with convervative thinking in this country. i'm really not a fan of welfare as it stands here, but people in my parents' generation are at the point where they've been working 30-40 years just has hard as you have and have nothing to show for it and it really wasn't their fault.
employers took away pensions and replaced them with 401ks. they passed on the cost of health insurance to their employees, they took away benefits such as paying for education and they kept wages at levels that did not compensate for the cost transfer to their employees. my mother went to college because SNET paid for it for her. when she had me, she was allowed to take 6 weeks off and her job was still there. my dad's company wiped out his department completely and then rehired some of them through an employment contractor and they get no benefits any more. no paid family/personal/emergency time, no health insurance, no retirement.
i'm sure you've worked hard for what you've gotten, but no one is a self-made man. everyone, EVERYONE, at some point needs some other person to give them something be it money, a job, a reference, whatever. you should care what happens to the people in your community. you should care that your neighbor loses his job, that your local businesses go bankrupt, that they get the help they need. because it can and will happen to you at the drop of a hat and without any warning. you can lose everything and never ever get another foothold in the world.
people should work and earn their own lives. people should not function under the illusion that they are so disconnected from the society in which they move. people, in general, do not necessarily do what's best for others or themselves without being forced to. if good will, community interest and support for your fellow man's rights and livelihood were the way of the world, we wouldn't need things like laws to keep people in check.
and that "horrendous tax increase" will be probably be about what you already pay now. i lose a third of my income when you factor in my deductible and loads of things still aren't covered. if i lose a third of my income and still get care if i eventually lose my job because of getting something like cancer, i'd be ok with that. welfare here is broken, but punishing people cuz shit happens in life is wrong. would you really want them to do it to you if your turn came?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:06:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:15:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeesh, poor Anansie. That's horrid.
Here's a question for a Canadian: Are alternative treatments like massage, chiropractic, acupuncture, and other types of "eastern" medicine covered by your govt health plan? How does that work?
==========================================
Jeanneee, it's doubtful whether the alternative treatments you mention above are covered but this could vary province to province; Caul might be able to speak for Quebec.
===
i'm pretty sure chiro treatments are covered in ontario. but other than that, the rest you have to pay for.
on the other hand, over here these treatments are tax deductible. i doubt the deduction is a 1:1 ratio but i think it's significant.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 13:01:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Liquidice281 (user info) at 2009-08-10 12:30:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
In Canada, doctors priority is to cover their ass and minimize costs associated with healthcare -- meaning minimum treatment.
===
doctors aren't employees of the state. they are contract employees. they're not mandated to do anything by the state, like minizing costs. they provide healthcare as best as they can, and cover their ass.
however, i'll concede that you are more likely to get incompetent doctors in a system that doesn't pay very well. having lived in Mtl, you probably know that doctors and specialists are paid A LOT LESS than in any other province/state and are subjected to quotas.
Submitted by peckerhead (user info) at 2009-08-10 12:40:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:15:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeesh, poor Anansie. That's horrid.
Here's a question for a Canadian: Are alternative treatments like massage, chiropractic, acupuncture, and other types of "eastern" medicine covered by your govt health plan? How does that work?
==========================================
Jeanneee, it's doubtful whether the alternative treatments you mention above are covered but this could vary province to province; Caul might be able to speak for Quebec.
On the other hand, if you get in with a good company, naturopathic treatments could be covered; orthotics (for shoes) are sometimes covered; eye-glasses and/or contacts are often covered.
If this info is somehow important to you then again, my suggestion would be to select the province (Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba etc.) and then start enquiring that way via google. Yahoo - Canada comes to mind and another great Canadian site which I'm sure will have a Health + diet link would be: canoe.ca
one more for good luck: cbc.ca
Submitted by Liquidice281 (user info) at 2009-08-10 12:30:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:03:39 CDT (#)
Ranking: 0
doctors can be wrong regardless of the system they work in.
=====================================================================================
Its not about being wrong. Its about capitalism.
In Canada, doctors priority is to cover their ass and minimize costs associated with healthcare -- meaning minimum treatment.
In America, doctors priority is to cover their ass and make as much money as possible -- meaning maximum treatment.
Sure, if I break my nose I want the Canadian system. Sounds great. But when your going to FUCKING DIE (and believe me, everyone will), I want the American system.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 12:03:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
doctors can be wrong regardless of the system they work in.
Submitted by Liquidice281 (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:58:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I was diagnosed with liver cancer in 1999 while living in Montreal. The 'incredible' Canadian healthcare system labeled me terminal and referred me to a hospice service so I could die. In Feb 2000 I visited a friend in Houston, Texas for a few weeks. I visited the Memorial Hermann Cancer Center for some diagnostic work and the doctor (Dr. Henderson) pulled me aside and asked why I haven't had chemotherapy yet. I told him that my Canadian doctor said I was terminal and all chemo would do is hurt my quality of life. Dr Henderson told me that he would like to try a chemotherapy regimen -- three days later I have a needle in my arm. I returned to Houston every week to get my therapy. After a month, diagnostics are showing that the cancer is receding. I sell all my property in Montreal and move to Houston. I get chemo for another 14 months. In late 2001 I'm declared cancer-free.
Fuck Canadian Healthcare.
And for you Americans reading this post and daydreaming about sucking Obama's fat cock -- read this:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/health_care_reform_obama.fortune/index.htm
for tl;dr
5 Freedoms Americans Lose With the Currently Proposed US Healthcare Reform
1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan
2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
4. Freedom to keep your existing plan
5. Freedom to choose your doctors
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:54:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I just don't like the whole "government control" part. I'd rather not have some pencil pusher with no medical education make my medical decisions.
...and to the people saying that military health care is great, visit a VA hospital.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:34:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-10 03:12:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I could go on in some woe-is-me manner about the entire situation"
No you can't.
You are living off govt handouts. There is no "poor you". There is the poor tax[payer who has to foot the bill for you. there is the poor peopel with real problems that don;t get aid. But you have absolutely nothing to bitch about.
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:18:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
From what I understand, you're not even paying your own rent by milking this crap.
==
Awkward sentence, I meant that it seems SS pays for your medication and your rent.
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:16:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I just want to say, I'm damn sick of the white man keeping kaos-king down, mentally ill power!
Seriously kaos, my sister (a single mother) was diagnosed as manic depressive in her teens. She has never gotten a single cent from anyone for it. It really boggles my mind that anyone could get on social security for being bipolar. She can't afford medication, so she does the best she can to deal with it herself, I really don't get why you cannot attempt to do the same. From what I understand, you're not even paying your own rent by milking this crap.
Who the fuck are you to talk about what should be done with people's taxes when you don't even work? Perhaps if you lost some weight and got a job, you could find a decent woman to annoy and stop foaming at the mouth on ubersite. Maybe finish school and get a degree, do *something*.
You're over 30 years old, for fucks sake.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:15:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeesh, poor Anansie. That's horrid.
Here's a question for a Canadian: Are alternative treatments like massage, chiropractic, acupuncture, and other types of "eastern" medicine covered by your govt health plan? How does that work?
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2009-08-10 11:11:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-10 10:59:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I had to go to the E.R. a few years ago for what I thought was appendicitis but turned out to be an ovarian cyst. They gave me an ultrasound to diagnose the cyst, wrote me a scrip for pain pills, said the cyst would pop and go away by itself within a day or 2, and sent me home. Between the initial clinic visit, the E.R. copay, the prescriptions, and the bills for the portion of the E.R. visit and ultrasound NOT covered by my insurance plan, the whole affair cost me about $750 out of pocket... for something that required no treatment whatsoever and went away on its own. I shudder to think what it would have cost if I had had to get an appendectomy. I'd probably still be paying for it.
---
Lucky you. Yours was the "go away on it's own" kind. Mine just got worse until it had to come out. Out of pocket cost with insurance: $3000.
Cost without insurance would have been at least $20000.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-08-10 10:59:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I had to go to the E.R. a few years ago for what I thought was appendicitis but turned out to be an ovarian cyst. They gave me an ultrasound to diagnose the cyst, wrote me a scrip for pain pills, said the cyst would pop and go away by itself within a day or 2, and sent me home. Between the initial clinic visit, the E.R. copay, the prescriptions, and the bills for the portion of the E.R. visit and ultrasound NOT covered by my insurance plan, the whole affair cost me about $750 out of pocket... for something that required no treatment whatsoever and went away on its own. I shudder to think what it would have cost if I had had to get an appendectomy. I'd probably still be paying for it.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2009-08-10 10:38:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
no need to tell these stories.
americans just need stfu and stop being so godamn nosy.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-10 10:16:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I challenge people to go work in the bowels of healthcare for a few years and come face to face with the human problems that result from our current system now, and then see how you feel.
We (the Yanks) need to start studying the healthcare systems of other countries that have socialized medicine and take some notes.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-08-10 10:06:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
hahaha, skrap (even though i disagree with him on this matter) fucking broke that one off in kaos' ass, didn't he?
LOL
Submitted by dedre (user info) at 2009-08-10 09:43:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 for good recall of all the maladies you've suffered and never directly needed to pay for.
-2 for my personal recall of my canadian girlfriend who was originally a one-night stand who decided to move down here in the deep south of the US to be with me and get a serious breast reduction surgery because in canada it would have taken her 3 years to finally get it done. She was 19 and the need of her surgery was severe, they removed 5lbs of breast and she still wore a DDD bra afterwards.
+2 because of how often I get off to the memories of having sex with her and licking her stitches after her surgery.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-10 03:12:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Gah...
Okay, first off that whole tirade was less directed at you personally than at the Conservative mind-set as a whole. It overly aggressive (towards you) and that was uncalled for. But see, this is EXACTLY the problem in these types of arguments - we attack the concept of a group of individuals as opposed to the individual himself. Perhaps you are more compassionate than your brethren. It certainly seems that way according to many of the pieces of information you've now shared. However, you can not expect us to know these things. Yes, I suppose it IS a type of prejudice, or more accurately, a kind of stereotyping - but I can not help but assume all Conservative Republicans are greedy zealots. If you see an apple, one assumes it's going to taste according to past experiences.
That said...
I'll repeat this again. I am NOT on welfare. I am on Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) due to what 3 accredited doctors have signed off on what they conclude is a legitimate medical issue. This argument has been leveled at me various times in the past - it would seem that if my condition was that of a physical nature than, for some reason, there would little if any disdain. However, since it is of a psychological one, anything concerning the matter is invalid.
I could go on in some woe-is-me manner about the entire situation, but it's quite irrelevant. Yes, I would very, very much like to change the situation I am in. Regardless, NOTHING about Obama's and the Democrats/Liberals/Progressives plans effect me in the slightest one way or another. I simply think we all should do our best to help each other. You say "Work For It," and I say "Two Hands Are Better Than One." Yes, yes, yes... I KNOW your precious tax money is helping me. Okay, so maybe I can't aid others financially - I suppose that's why I volunteer at the Point Of Light.
I guess that's my whole point.
Is it really so terrible that a few of your dollars goes to someone in need? Of course there are people who can contribute in that manner, but maybe they are helping in some other form? If people in this country weren't so god damn self-centered and ego-driven, perhaps they would be willing to toss a few bucks out, donate a few canned goods here & there, help a few hours if need be. Is it really that bad to see a government WANT to aid its people instead of letting them struggle???
Submitted by Jack_Burton (user info) at 2009-08-10 02:39:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
look at you all giving out opinions like it really counts what any of you retards think
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-09 22:52:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Kaos - I'm not Christian. I am white, middle-aged, and middle class. I am not ashamed of it. In fact, I earned it and I'm OK with it. I served in the military, and then went to college (no GI Bill in those days - I saved money while in the military to pay my way, and got student loans to cover the rest, which I paid off early). Then I got jobs, worked hard, was successful and progressed to the reasably comfortable point at which I find myself now. No debt, a decent savings and investment portfolio (despite the fucking the market's given me lately). I don't dream of having a big pile of money - if I did I'd be playing the lottery as if it was my retirement plan. And I don't consider myself to be more important than others. I do consider myself to be more energetic and capable and self-sufficient than a lot of others. I am willing to work for what I have. Many are not. And now I'm suddenly the asshole for wanting to keep what I earn instead of being forced into giving it away to people I don't feel deserve it. I think I am not the asshole here. I think the asshole here is the person who feels they are entitled to what I have simply because they don't have it. It's not 'evolution'. It's not 'progress'. It's lazy people wanting what they haven't earned. Ronald Reagan said it: The best welfare program is a job. Get a job, earn your way, and get what you want for yourself. That's what America was founded on. It's "The land of opportunity", remember.
As a right-thinker, I don't desire to see others fail and I don't require others to fail in order to succeed myself. On the contrary, I desire to see everyone succeed. I just want everyone to succeed on their own by contributing what they can in order to make the society better. Example: you fancy yourself a writer. I'd like to see you write well enough to get a real book deal, make some money, and get to the point that you can get off the government tit. If you are more successful than that because you're a better writer, then, you go, girl. I've bought copies of three of your books; the first just to help you out and the other two because the first one didn't flat-out suck. That's a very important point. You work and I like what you did, I'll pay you for your efforts. You earned what commission you got from my purchases. You have not earned anything else as far as I am concerned.
Before all this bullshit, I was, like many of my cohort, actually rather charitable. I worked at Habitat for Humanity in the ReStore and sometimes building houses. I gave time and money to local homeless shelters. That was good works by choice, and despite what you and your ill-informed ilk want to believe it is what most of us with more to give do with some of our money. That is no more. I still give time to Habitat for Humanity because I like what they do, but none of the others gets anything from me by choice. Why should I, when I'll be forced to by the horrendous tax increases I'll se go into effect. I will no longer be able to afford to give by choice since it will be taken from me.
If you want to sit there getting disability checks and working for cash so your benefits don't get reduced and try to insult me for paying your bills, well then you can go fuck yourself with something sharp and infected. What if I and everyone like me just decides to quit carrying you? I'd love to see it happen. Ronald Reagan said it: The best welfare program is a job. Do you want a job? A real one, wherein you pay taxes and are a contributing member of society? Rhetorical question; of course you don't. Why would you? How can you be a lazy Social-Security stealing drain on the economy if you have to get up and be at work by 9am five days a week?
And lastly, I am the last person you should be describing as feeling entitled. Specifically, I am the last person YOU should be describing as feeling entitled. I'm a white male. So are you. I'm reasonably smart. So, I imagine, are you. I'm willing to work hard in order to see the benefits of that work. You, not so much. I am better off than most of the planet because I was fortunate enough to be born in a place where opportunities abound and I have the wherewithal and stamina and brains to use those opportunities. Calling me names because you and those like you choose to not keep up is only demonstrating your own laziness and weakness. You have the same opportunities I do. You fail to use them, over and over and over again. It is ridiculous to say that your failures are my fault and that I should carry you simply because of your unwillingness to carry yourself. Get off your ass and go succeed on your own.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-09 21:38:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't worry, Sandman...
It's not Skrapmetal's fault.
He's a middle-aged, middle class, Christian white male. As far as he's concerned, he's ENTITLED to the way many things are done due to the fact that his ancestors have had them that way. Why, it's the American Dream to amass piles of money so that you can spend it on objects to prove that you are better than your neighbor. These profane ideas like "Progress" and "Evolution" do nothing but invalidate a system that DEMANDS individuals like Skrap are special & important. See, to people like him, the American Dream is built on the idea that you must crush & defeat your fellow man (especially brown people & non-Christians) to further your own glory. Rights??? Oh no, such things as freedom, health, education & happiness can NEVER be Rights! This might lead to all people somehow being **gasp** equal.
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2009-08-09 19:49:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-09 04:45:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2009-08-09 04:23:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-08 05:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
We have free healthcare in Australia too. However, I choose not to be a fuckwit about it. Maybe you should too. Total cost of advice? $0.
--
Thats an easy blanket statement to make. Being a Canadian/Australian who's now living in Perth and has a medicare card NOT private insurance, the healthcare system is here subpar to Canada. If the Australian "two tier" public/private system really is being pursued in Alberta as it was when I grew up in Edmonton I would much, MUCH rather stick with the 100% universal Canadian healthcare system. The system in Australia is good, but not great. Compared to America however it is brilliant.
My own Canadian healthcare story:
I'd been out of the country for 3 years, on my second day back in Canada I developed a case of mono, I went to a walk in clinic, had NO ID, no Alberta healthcare card and had to wait 2 hours to be seen. I was checked out, given a prescription in the name I had no way of proving was mine, and left for the pharmacy.
Rich, poor, healthcare card or not you will be treated and not turned away.
Since being in Australia in the last 2 years I've spent about $800 on medical bills, and was reimbursed about $300 of that thanks to Medicare (you pay up front, and then claim a return). In Canada growing up I had never spent a cent on medical coverage in 24 years.
___________________________
What did you need to pay for? Plus you know if you hit the threshold you can then claim 80% of expenses.
--
For x-rays and other tests, around $500, got about $200 back. Also 3-4 trips to the doctor $65 each, got half back of each. Then just lots of prescriptions, which there is no cap on. Prescription drugs are crazy expensive here.
I just filed my Aussie taxes and the threshold seemed to be $1500, so I claimed all I could this year.
As I said, not a bad system, but having to pay up front and then get a reimbursement just seems stupid, why take the money in the first place?
Submitted by Profane (user info) at 2009-08-09 19:25:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oddly enough, $0 (US) is also the price your country pays for our military protection. When the North Koreans start launching missles at PEI, you guys can send the RCMP to take care of things . . .
No worries though : Here in the USA, Canada is considered to be our favorite colony.
Take off hosers.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-09 15:13:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
also count me in for another vote for socialized medicine. military healthcare was the best thing ever. as a spouse i didn't have eye coverage but i had absolutely everything fucking else covered. so trip or two to the ER, all physicals, couple thousand worth of blood tests, prescriptions, bandages, procedures etc were all free. the only thing we paid for was $14/mo for my dental care. if we'd had kids, it would have been $7/mo each after that.
obama's underestimating the degree to which americans don't understand socialism or in general wtf they're talking about. he has a big mountain of stupidity to get over. and just giving everyone health insurance and not medical care is not the way to fix it. insurance lobbyists have very deep pockets and very obviously right now the rest of america barely had two dimes to rub together.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2009-08-09 15:06:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:02:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Why do you choose to continue to live in America when you have so often touted the advatages of living elsewhere?
-----------------------
because other countries are slowly shutting the doors to american workers. me personally, i don't have the education i can't afford here. the visa law changed and students can no longer work on a student visa except as an internship that's part of the program they're accepted to. you have to have all money up front for living expenses for that year and are not allowed to work. so for me, being not rich or the child of rich people, it means i'd have to earn an entire year's tuition and living expenses to the minimum standard of the uk government (and not my own which are much lower really) in the 2-3 months between the end of one school year and the start of another. that also means since i'd be living back in america for those couple months i'd lose that entire year as counting towards residency and have to start again each year. for working, i basically need an mba and an employer sponsor now. i can't even get citizenship through my grandmother, a uk citizen, because a) she's a woman and b) my father never got dual citizenship thus fucking me over.
most of the countries you wouldn't want to live in are much easier to get into and stay. but most of the western countries with the standards america should've already caught up to have pretty much said fuck off to us except for very specific degrees and fields. like canada wants a lot of engineers according to their list. uk wants people with mbas but not doctors, nurses or teachers.
just up and moving to another country means you'd better hook up with someone within that travel visa time or if you live there illegally you can hope you never get caught. my dad knew someone here who lived here for 30 years, had kids who were considered american, and one night were arrested and deported. one night, in their pajamas on a plane back to colombia.
it's a lot harder than it seems to just up and move the legal way.
Submitted by peckerhead (user info) at 2009-08-09 12:28:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"The total hospital bill was $0." <------ just goes to show you... the best things in life are free. great pic of our flag.
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2009-08-09 11:12:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't give a flying fuck about your post, you, your health system or the thought provoking comments (recommending or castigating) it, I just really like Canada.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-09 10:51:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:37:27 EDT (#)
Ranking:
sandmantate - good for you. In most US States, if you're getting grants and loans for attending college AND receiving unemployment benefits, it's very likely you're in violation of the law. You'll have to pay that money back if someone finds out. Nonetheless, the system isn't broken. If you got grants and loans in order to complete your edumacation then you'll be in a better position after you get out of your school to get a decent job and contribute to society, starting with paying off the debt you have accrued. That's what I call an investment, and as long as you hold up your end of the deal it will pay off with your increased earnings and corresponding incresed taxes. The problem will arise when you fail to do what you promised you would do, which is pay off the loans. Then you'll have the education, but it'll be on people like me (who paid our student loans off properly) to absorb the cost of your defaulting. Therein lies the problem, you see. No, you don't see, do you. You think you're owed an education. Not true. You think you can ignore those loans since you can't get a job when you graduate. True only if you beg, and only for a short time. If you're in college, I will tell you that I know more of the world than you do. I won't argue the point since you cannot hope to compete - you're simply too inexperienced. It's not your fault that you're 19 years old and I'm not demeaning you for that. It's just that, in the same way that you don't know what they will teach you in next quarter's classes, you likewise don't know what life holds for you a few years down the road. I will only say that your political attitudes while receiving grants and loans will very likely not be the same as the ones you hold when you've paid off that debt and have to pay someone else's. Rant all you want for now - it's adorable. But do me this favor: wait ten years and recall this interchange.
-------------------------------------------------------------
You missed the mark on every attempted insult. Listen, you arrogant blowhard, it's time to come off your high horse before you hurt yourself in the fall. The truth of the matter is that you have been talking out of you ass about the health care reform from day one, just as you've been talking out of your ass about Obama. Everytime you are given an example of great government run health care in another country, you swear it won't work in ours because out government is to stupid to run, yet you claim that our military is the best in the world. So, which is it? Is the government hopelessly retarded? If that's the case, I'd ask you why you continue to vote for these people. Or does the government work just fine; hence the top rate military, the ever-reliable post office, AND the first class GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE that the veterans and retirees receive, and you are just like every other insecure and pompous middle aged white man in America: You don't make nearly as much money as you pretend, make all of your alcohol selection from the Playboy Adviser, and you want your America back because King Obama is a racist (but you aren't saying that he doesn't like white people) and Socialism = Communism!
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2009-08-09 10:39:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-09 05:54:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:41:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nice try, lungfish, and I give you props for citing only the part of the law that would make you look right. I will direct you to a news story some years ago (google it, I can only spend so much time on this mess) to a shipment of Playboy magazines confiscated by the Canadian government. Why? Because in an article in this magazine, a woman stated that she enjoyed it when her boyfriend "smacks her ass and fucks me hard." This was construed as endorsing violence against women. The magazine was confiscated and not permitted to be sold on Canadian shelves. This is censorship and a disregard for freedom of the press. It is also perfectly legal under Canadian law.
Likewise, Macleans magazine and Mark Steyn, along with Ezra Levant, were pilloried by the Canadian Human Rights Commission, and brought under legal action for articles they wrote on Islamofascism. After releasing tapes of their interrogation, the CRC ended up dropping the complaint after an expensive and lengthy legal battle. This was backed and sanctioned by the Canadian government. This is not a government that believes in true free speech, or press. They will censor you if they decide to. They've done it before, and I'm not looking for it to get any better. Are you?
---
Out media is censored a mind numbingly amount. We have banned books in the US (STILL! IN 2009!). Our government even censors what they tell us.
Untrue?
Fine, wait for a dude sitting on the toilet reading playboy on an NBC sitcom. Ain't gonna happen, the Christians ensure we aren't exposed to certain things in America because we can't handle reality.
Tom Sawyer is STILL FUCKING BANNED in most schools in America!!
FUCK!
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-09 04:48:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:27:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I love you too, Rob.
Well no, not really. I think you're a nice guy. But in any case, you're a dude, and that would be gross.
Fox News has turned me into a raving lunatic tonight.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:24:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I love that lungfish guy.
_____________
I'd fuck either/both of you.
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-09 04:45:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2009-08-09 04:23:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-08 05:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
We have free healthcare in Australia too. However, I choose not to be a fuckwit about it. Maybe you should too. Total cost of advice? $0.
--
Thats an easy blanket statement to make. Being a Canadian/Australian who's now living in Perth and has a medicare card NOT private insurance, the healthcare system is here subpar to Canada. If the Australian "two tier" public/private system really is being pursued in Alberta as it was when I grew up in Edmonton I would much, MUCH rather stick with the 100% universal Canadian healthcare system. The system in Australia is good, but not great. Compared to America however it is brilliant.
My own Canadian healthcare story:
I'd been out of the country for 3 years, on my second day back in Canada I developed a case of mono, I went to a walk in clinic, had NO ID, no Alberta healthcare card and had to wait 2 hours to be seen. I was checked out, given a prescription in the name I had no way of proving was mine, and left for the pharmacy.
Rich, poor, healthcare card or not you will be treated and not turned away.
Since being in Australia in the last 2 years I've spent about $800 on medical bills, and was reimbursed about $300 of that thanks to Medicare (you pay up front, and then claim a return). In Canada growing up I had never spent a cent on medical coverage in 24 years.
___________________________
What did you need to pay for? Plus you know if you hit the threshold you can then claim 80% of expenses.
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2009-08-09 04:23:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-08 05:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
We have free healthcare in Australia too. However, I choose not to be a fuckwit about it. Maybe you should too. Total cost of advice? $0.
--
Thats an easy blanket statement to make. Being a Canadian/Australian who's now living in Perth and has a medicare card NOT private insurance, the healthcare system is here subpar to Canada. If the Australian "two tier" public/private system really is being pursued in Alberta as it was when I grew up in Edmonton I would much, MUCH rather stick with the 100% universal Canadian healthcare system. The system in Australia is good, but not great. Compared to America however it is brilliant.
My own Canadian healthcare story:
I'd been out of the country for 3 years, on my second day back in Canada I developed a case of mono, I went to a walk in clinic, had NO ID, no Alberta healthcare card and had to wait 2 hours to be seen. I was checked out, given a prescription in the name I had no way of proving was mine, and left for the pharmacy.
Rich, poor, healthcare card or not you will be treated and not turned away.
Since being in Australia in the last 2 years I've spent about $800 on medical bills, and was reimbursed about $300 of that thanks to Medicare (you pay up front, and then claim a return). In Canada growing up I had never spent a cent on medical coverage in 24 years.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:37:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Lungfish - We think alike in that. I too love this country and hate the government. For clarity, I'm no fan of the last one either, but this one is far, far, far worse.
sandmantate - good for you. In most US States, if you're getting grants and loans for attending college AND receiving unemployment benefits, it's very likely you're in violation of the law. You'll have to pay that money back if someone finds out. Nonetheless, the system isn't broken. If you got grants and loans in order to complete your edumacation then you'll be in a better position after you get out of your school to get a decent job and contribute to society, starting with paying off the debt you have accrued. That's what I call an investment, and as long as you hold up your end of the deal it will pay off with your increased earnings and corresponding incresed taxes. The problem will arise when you fail to do what you promised you would do, which is pay off the loans. Then you'll have the education, but it'll be on people like me (who paid our student loans off properly) to absorb the cost of your defaulting. Therein lies the problem, you see. No, you don't see, do you. You think you're owed an education. Not true. You think you can ignore those loans since you can't get a job when you graduate. True only if you beg, and only for a short time. If you're in college, I will tell you that I know more of the world than you do. I won't argue the point since you cannot hope to compete - you're simply too inexperienced. It's not your fault that you're 19 years old and I'm not demeaning you for that. It's just that, in the same way that you don't know what they will teach you in next quarter's classes, you likewise don't know what life holds for you a few years down the road. I will only say that your political attitudes while receiving grants and loans will very likely not be the same as the ones you hold when you've paid off that debt and have to pay someone else's. Rant all you want for now - it's adorable. But do me this favor: wait ten years and recall this interchange.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:21:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:41:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nice try, lungfish, and I give you props for citing only the part of the law that would make you look right. I will direct you to a news story some years ago (google it, I can only spend so much time on this mess) to a shipment of Playboy magazines confiscated by the Canadian government. Why? Because in an article in this magazine, a woman stated that she enjoyed it when her boyfriend "smacks her ass and fucks me hard." This was construed as endorsing violence against women. The magazine was confiscated and not permitted to be sold on Canadian shelves. This is censorship and a disregard for freedom of the press. It is also perfectly legal under Canadian law.
Likewise, Macleans magazine and Mark Steyn, along with Ezra Levant, were pilloried by the Canadian Human Rights Commission, and brought under legal action for articles they wrote on Islamofascism. After releasing tapes of their interrogation, the CRC ended up dropping the complaint after an expensive and lengthy legal battle. This was backed and sanctioned by the Canadian government. This is not a government that believes in true free speech, or press. They will censor you if they decide to. They've done it before, and I'm not looking for it to get any better. Are you?
-------------------------
Give me a fucking break dude. How many books are banned in the US? How many movies? You're taking an isolated case and setting it up as if we are suppressed Bolsheviks. Your examples are weak and very stupid reasons for comparing our freedom to yours when they are virtually the same.
Why don't you come over and we can argue about whether my girlfriends shirt is pink or salmon.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:15:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:02:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have a question for Lungfish. This is going to sound really moronic and stupid and redneck-y and dunderheaded, but I'm going to ask anyway. I am not being moronic and stupid and redneck-y and dunderheaded; I just want an answer. In answering, if you choose to do so, please know that the question has no meaning beyond what is directly evident from the words. There is no judgement or underlying meaning to the question. I will not respond with "AHA! So you're a..." or anything like that. I will probably not respond at all, except perhaps to say "Thanks for answering the question". So, Lungfish, if you will indulge me, the question is this:
Why do you choose to continue to live in America when you have so often touted the advatages of living elsewhere?
------
Because I love this country. I hate the government. Parts of it, anyway. The government =/ the country. If I occassionally (surely not "often") mention where other countries are managing things better than we are, I do it in the hopes of improving the country.
It's my patriotic duty.
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:11:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:47:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Haikumikoo - Unemployment went down this month bcause for the last three months it's been reported by the Fed as including non-working students. It's the same every year at this time. They get a part-time job just before the end of the school year, get fired for not showing up, and take unemployment for the summer. Students are dropping off the unemployment rolls as they are going back to school and thus cannot claim to be on unemployment if they want to get their grants and low-interest loans. Many of my cohorts in college did the same thing, although I did not. If they hit the rolls as unemployed in May and drop off in August, they can honestly say they "were not collecting government unemployment benefits when they start school" in September. You were in college - you should know this.
---------------------------------
You know, I've been on unemployment for the past few months, and I filled out my low interest loan and grant paperwork with no problems. I even told them that I was on unemployment. They said "no problem" AND I GOT THE MONEY ANYWAY!
O NOES TEH SISTIM IZ BROAKIN!
Submitted by sandmantate (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:05:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-08 15:32:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks for the info.
The thing I do really like about the Canadian healthcare system is that (as I understand it) the doctor treating the patient makes the call as to what treatment the patient is given. If he needs a Band-Aid, he gets one. If she needs her spleen removed, it is removed. Under Obama's healthcare plan, the doctors are not afforded such control. Patients' treatments will have to go through the an even higher level of scrutiny and approval than they do now under an HMO or other plan to determine if they will be covered, and then the decisions will no longer be made by insurance companies but by the government. Obama's healthcare plan is not the same as Canada's.
As you've no doubt been made aware, your treatments are not free; they're paid for by your taxes. In America, the government is so inefficient and wasteful that to place something as important to each citizen as healthcare in the hands of the government is clearly just foolish from the financial and level-of-care perspective. Government involvement in areas once given to the private sector has not to my knowledge ever failed to make the those areas less efective and more expensive. Obama's healthcare plan is not the same as Canada's.
---------------------------------------------------
But don't touch my Medicare or Social Security! Also, by this train of logic, our Military is the worst in the world, the Post Office never delivers the mail, the neighborhood is in ashes because the fire department can't do it's job, the police are robbing old ladies, and the sewers are full!
Socialism doesn't work! (Except when it does but it won't this time because this is different this time because this is health care and socialized health care is wrong and could never work except in Europe Canada Australia and the US but not the regular US just the Military, the government and Medicare, but it would never work for regular people and king obama wants to make sure that white people don't get medicine and I know this because I've read the health care bill except that I haven't and I'm getting all my information from whomever is talking loudest in my general vicinity!)
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-09 03:02:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have a question for Lungfish. This is going to sound really moronic and stupid and redneck-y and dunderheaded, but I'm going to ask anyway. I am not being moronic and stupid and redneck-y and dunderheaded; I just want an answer. In answering, if you choose to do so, please know that the question has no meaning beyond what is directly evident from the words. There is no judgement or underlying meaning to the question. I will not respond with "AHA! So you're a..." or anything like that. I will probably not respond at all, except perhaps to say "Thanks for answering the question". So, Lungfish, if you will indulge me, the question is this:
Why do you choose to continue to live in America when you have so often touted the advatages of living elsewhere?
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:50:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Only 43% rated it as excellent?
ONLY?
That's some fine reporting there.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:36:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawrrrrrrr
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:35:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I saw a thing on that idiot Glenn Beck's show tonight that said "only 43 percent" of participants in a poll (in the UK, I think) rated their health care as "Excellent." No mention of what the other choices were. How many rated it "Very good" or "good" or "fair". 90%, collectively? Who knows? It was a journalistic half-lie. The equivalent of Pravda saying that the Russian swimmer came in a glorious second-place, while the American swimmer came in a miserable "next-to-last" place, when there were only two swimmers in the race. Fucking Fox News.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:27:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I love you too, Rob.
Well no, not really. I think you're a nice guy. But in any case, you're a dude, and that would be gross.
Fox News has turned me into a raving lunatic tonight.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:24:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I love that lungfish guy.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:18:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
And you're naive if you don't think that kind of censorship happens everywhere. Think about it. What can you illegally look at and download on/from the web? There's plenty of censorship here. And some of it makes sense. Your Playboy example doesn't impress me, domenad. Canada is perfectly welcome to set their own standards as far as I care. My point was that Canada is "guaranteed" the same rights as we are. I can't help it if you distrust them for their single-payer medical care. The issues aren't even related.
I drank a lot of beer and read much of the Obamacare plan, and I think it's actually a decent bill. Much better than I had expected. I'm sure it could use some tweaking. I suspect, however, that it'll get tweaked so much as to be virtually ineffective. The corporations always win.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:41:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nice try, lungfish, and I give you props for citing only the part of the law that would make you look right.
----
Jesus.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html#anchorbo-ga:l_I-gb:s_2
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2009-08-09 02:03:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:41:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nice try, lungfish, and I give you props for citing only the part of the law that would make you look right. I will direct you to a news story some years ago (google it, I can only spend so much time on this mess) to a shipment of Playboy magazines confiscated by the Canadian government. Why? Because in an article in this magazine, a woman stated that she enjoyed it when her boyfriend "smacks her ass and fucks me hard." This was construed as endorsing violence against women. The magazine was confiscated and not permitted to be sold on Canadian shelves. This is censorship and a disregard for freedom of the press. It is also perfectly legal under Canadian law.
Likewise, Macleans magazine and Mark Steyn, along with Ezra Levant, were pilloried by the Canadian Human Rights Commission, and brought under legal action for articles they wrote on Islamofascism. After releasing tapes of their interrogation, the CRC ended up dropping the complaint after an expensive and lengthy legal battle. This was backed and sanctioned by the Canadian government. This is not a government that believes in true free speech, or press. They will censor you if they decide to. They've done it before, and I'm not looking for it to get any better. Are you?
---------------------------------
Pics or it didn't happen.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-09 01:41:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nice try, lungfish, and I give you props for citing only the part of the law that would make you look right. I will direct you to a news story some years ago (google it, I can only spend so much time on this mess) to a shipment of Playboy magazines confiscated by the Canadian government. Why? Because in an article in this magazine, a woman stated that she enjoyed it when her boyfriend "smacks her ass and fucks me hard." This was construed as endorsing violence against women. The magazine was confiscated and not permitted to be sold on Canadian shelves. This is censorship and a disregard for freedom of the press. It is also perfectly legal under Canadian law.
Likewise, Macleans magazine and Mark Steyn, along with Ezra Levant, were pilloried by the Canadian Human Rights Commission, and brought under legal action for articles they wrote on Islamofascism. After releasing tapes of their interrogation, the CRC ended up dropping the complaint after an expensive and lengthy legal battle. This was backed and sanctioned by the Canadian government. This is not a government that believes in true free speech, or press. They will censor you if they decide to. They've done it before, and I'm not looking for it to get any better. Are you?
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:59:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:14:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
By the way, just so everyone knows (if they don't already):
There's no guarantee of freedom of speech in Canada.
There's no guarantee of freedom of the press in Canada.
Canada engages in real censorship.
How much is that worth, I ask you?
------------
Please elaborate.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:47:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Haikumikoo - Unemployment went down this month bcause for the last three months it's been reported by the Fed as including non-working students. It's the same every year at this time. They get a part-time job just before the end of the school year, get fired for not showing up, and take unemployment for the summer. Students are dropping off the unemployment rolls as they are going back to school and thus cannot claim to be on unemployment if they want to get their grants and low-interest loans. Many of my cohorts in college did the same thing, although I did not. If they hit the rolls as unemployed in May and drop off in August, they can honestly say they "were not collecting government unemployment benefits when they start school" in September. You were in college - you should know this.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:37:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:14:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
By the way, just so everyone knows (if they don't already):
There's no guarantee of freedom of speech in Canada.
There's no guarantee of freedom of the press in Canada.
Canada engages in real censorship.
How much is that worth, I ask you?
=========
Section 2(b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that "Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: ... freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication."
Care to try again.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:14:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
By the way, just so everyone knows (if they don't already):
There's no guarantee of freedom of speech in Canada.
There's no guarantee of freedom of the press in Canada.
Canada engages in real censorship.
How much is that worth, I ask you?
Submitted by Gayvid_Gerrold (user info) at 2009-08-08 23:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
#8 isn't a story.
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-08 20:29:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2009-08-08 10:07:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-08 05:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
We have free healthcare in Australia too. However, I choose not to be a fuckwit about it. Maybe you should too. Total cost of advice? $0.
----
I'm aware that this post makes me sound like a smarmy little tit, but if you lived next to America you'd understand. I can't turn on the TV without seeing some American yammering on and on about how Canadian healthcare sucks, which it most assuredly does not. Thanks for the free advice, now go fuck yourself
_______________
No you go fuck YOURSELF! Total cost of me repeating your insult? $0.
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-08 20:09:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
P.S. I love you
Sha la la la la la la
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2009-08-08 20:07:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-08 15:32:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
then the decisions will no longer be made by insurance companies but by the government.
===
I dislocated my right knee last year. Eventually, I got a call from the rescission department claiming that they could not pay up because I had a preexisting condition...in my left knee. I did not have a preexisting condition in either knee, and they couldn't even get the knee right. I guess what I'm saying is I don't really have much respect for the way, and the reasons, insurance companies make their decisions.
Unemployment went down this month, even though some republicans were predicting it was going to exceed 10%. I'm surprised I don't see any auto +2s from you all over ubersite, or were you too busy listening to Bill O'Reilly?
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-08 19:56:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-08 15:32:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks for the info.
The thing I do really like about the Canadian healthcare system is that (as I understand it) the doctor treating the patient makes the call as to what treatment the patient is given. If he needs a Band-Aid, he gets one. If she needs her spleen removed, it is removed. Under Obama's healthcare plan, the doctors are not afforded such control. Patients' treatments will have to go through the an even higher level of scrutiny and approval than they do now under an HMO or other plan to determine if they will be covered, and then the decisions will no longer be made by insurance companies but by the government. Obama's healthcare plan is not the same as Canada's.
As you've no doubt been made aware, your treatments are not free; they're paid for by your taxes. In America, the government is so inefficient and wasteful that to place something as important to each citizen as healthcare in the hands of the government is clearly just foolish from the financial and level-of-care perspective. Government involvement in areas once given to the private sector has not to my knowledge ever failed to make the those areas less efective and more expensive. Obama's healthcare plan is not the same as Canada's.
--------------------
So you're government is more wasteful than any other nation in the industrialized world.
I see these same tired arguments on every Neocon blog I read. None of them are backed up with anything but opinion though.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-08 19:15:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-08 18:47:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You apparently aren't counting the horrible, soul-crushing price you have to pay for living in Canada.
-
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+States
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2009-08-08 18:47:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You apparently aren't counting the horrible, soul-crushing price you have to pay for living in Canada.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2009-08-08 16:27:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-08-08 15:32:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks for the info.
The thing I do really like about the Canadian healthcare system is that (as I understand it) the doctor treating the patient makes the call as to what treatment the patient is given. If he needs a Band-Aid, he gets one. If she needs her spleen removed, it is removed. Under Obama's healthcare plan, the doctors are not afforded such control. Patients' treatments will have to go through the an even higher level of scrutiny and approval than they do now under an HMO or other plan to determine if they will be covered, and then the decisions will no longer be made by insurance companies but by the government. Obama's healthcare plan is not the same as Canada's.
As you've no doubt been made aware, your treatments are not free; they're paid for by your taxes. In America, the government is so inefficient and wasteful that to place something as important to each citizen as healthcare in the hands of the government is clearly just foolish from the financial and level-of-care perspective. Government involvement in areas once given to the private sector has not to my knowledge ever failed to make the those areas less efective and more expensive. Obama's healthcare plan is not the same as Canada's.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-08-08 14:50:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rachlis3-2009aug03,0,538126.story
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2009-08-08 13:22:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Like I said; I spent 9 years with universal health care and it was FUCKING GLORIOUS!
No bills, no copay, free meds!
All paid by my, and others, taxes.
It works and nobody complains about it.
"How, Foolproof, was this possible?", you ask?
The military. They do it EVERY day. EVERY. DAY. And nobody complains, not even all the Americans paying for it. Now, remember, the military pays taxes as well, so it wasn't technically "free", but just unlimited access to any doctor anywhere in the country was amazing.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-08-08 12:58:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
BUT WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT FOR SEVENTEEN YEARS TO GET OUR TEMPERATURE RECTALLY TAKEN AND ALL PROGRESS WILL STOP IN RESEARCH, I MEAN YOU GUYS ONLY HAVE BAND-AIDS AND ASPIRIN AND THAT'S IT...
THE HORROR!
SOCIALISM NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Submitted by YourNameHere (user info) at 2009-08-08 12:54:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Doodles (user info) at 2009-08-08 11:46:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
According to the doctor, the wait would have been a week if they'd suspected a brain tumour
Seems bad.
Submitted by Lambchop (user info) at 2009-08-08 10:23:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
When I was young, I had testicular torsion, and had to get emergency surgery on my scrote.
Cost my family a couple thousand.
A little later when I was a bit older, it happened again.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-08-08 10:19:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Non nationalised health care is insane.
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2009-08-08 10:07:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-08 05:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
We have free healthcare in Australia too. However, I choose not to be a fuckwit about it. Maybe you should too. Total cost of advice? $0.
----
I'm aware that this post makes me sound like a smarmy little tit, but if you lived next to America you'd understand. I can't turn on the TV without seeing some American yammering on and on about how Canadian healthcare sucks, which it most assuredly does not. Thanks for the free advice, now go fuck yourself.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2009-08-08 08:16:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This sounds like a good deal.
Submitted by Little_Sally (user info) at 2009-08-08 06:22:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
oh, that's interesting. We use a COMPLETELY different system here down south. Here, you have to pay exorbitant amounts for very simple medical treatment, and if you want really GOOD coverage, you have to pay for it. If you can't pay for it, you'll be in debt for the rest of your life.
How is that working for you up there?
Submitted by Ducky (user info) at 2009-08-08 06:08:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaa
OKAY!
Submitted by 8track (user info) at 2009-08-08 05:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
We have free healthcare in Australia too. However, I choose not to be a fuckwit about it. Maybe you should too. Total cost of advice? $0.
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2009-08-08 05:01:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Have you ever just walked out into the woods..... you know......... completely naked?
Just to see what it was like to live like a bear?
Scratch your back with a maple tree?
Wipe your ass with a pinecone?
Ever do that?
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-08-08 03:46:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I would be furious if id had to pay for all the time i'd been to Accident& Emergency.
Submitted by Chroniclysm (user info) at 2009-08-08 02:28:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh, Canada..
Oh Canada!?
Submitted by Squirrelly_Girl (user info) at 2009-08-07 23:35:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-07 23:29:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 23:23:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Hooray! Let's all move to Canada!
---------------
Nuh uh. You're not invited to this party.
Submitted by cheerios (user info) at 2009-08-07 23:23:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Hooray! Let's all move to Canada!
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-07 22:23:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Now I'm mad. I'm off to the liquor store. Fuck.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-07 22:23:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
They charge $10 per aspirin at the hospital. They said I couldn't bring her any from home, so I brought her some percocet instead.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2009-08-07 22:20:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Last year my wife had her gall bladder removed. Cost of the operation and shit: $135,000. Or was it $85,000? After the first $50,000, who cares. Of course I have health insurance, which costs me (66%) and my employer (33%) $10,000/year. So we've paid $50,000 for insurance over the last five years. So I only had to pay the $2500 deductible. Fucking retarded system.
Submitted by catscradle (user info) at 2009-08-07 22:17:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You seem very accident prone.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-08-07 22:00:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Last year, my step father was diagnosed with Colon and Lymph node cancer. 3 days later they operated and removed a tumor and a good portion of his intestine. They put him on chemo as soon as he was healed enough from the surgery and today he has a clean bill of health. He has nothing but good things to say about the staff that treated him. The surgery and chemo cost my parents 0$.
This is socialism.
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2009-08-07 21:04:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
3 months ago, I had excruciating pain in my leg following a charity walk. It turned out to be Tibial Tendonitis. I was in a medical boot for one week. I just received a bill for $160 for one shoe I may never wear again.
If I recall correctly, this cost me over $200 for a 10 minute ER visit
http://www.ubersite.com/m/111470
Submitted by dredwood (user info) at 2009-08-07 20:57:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+ 2 for the Canadian Flag. Although I have not been treated that fast myself for various injuries, we do have it better than most.