Give Peace a Chance (775 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 1.72 on 27 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by TMA (View user info) at 2004-04-02 12:57:59 EST
By the Masked Assailant
In the beginning, I was for the war in Iraq (Desert Storm II) while numerous individuals were against it (namely liberals, hippies, and foreigners-non united statesians). My reasons for the war were quite different than the usual explanations we've all heard. Specifically, I had a vendetta against the Dixie Chicks and liberals whom supported Operation Desert Fox, wag the dog missile strikes, and that war with the Yugoslavians (all of which were under President Clinton). Where were all these protestors when their idol (slick Willy) was bombing people? How come these liberals didn't mind so much when Clinton bombed a hospital, an aspirin factory, a moving train on a bridge, a Chinese Embassy? How come they were so against their immortal adversary President Bush when he wanted to do the same? The truth was, Bush wanted to defend our freedom. Bush wanted revenge for 9-11. I WANTED revenge for 9-11.
1-year later.
In the seemingly endless televisional display of the 4 contractors being taken out from their still in-flamed car, then being severely beaten in the face with metal poles, then being taken apart at the knees and ankles, then being dragged for some time, and finally being hung upside down off a bridge while young children hit their bodies with the soles of their shoes (a major insult in their culture), I had an epiphany. Although familiar with most of what is going on in the World, I decided to do some more research. I started with the Crusades, WW I, WW II, the 6-day war..... all the way until the Madrid bombing, the 4-contractors, and countless other events (around 230 major incidents). During my research I stumbled across the infamous Daniel Pearl video and decided to watch it. Let's just say, it only furthered my newly-inspired opinion.
The realization.
Who are we to enforce Democracy on a people that clearly favor Islamic rule? I'm not merely talking about Iraq; I'm talking about all Islamic nations, attitudes, beliefs, and regions. Now you may or may not believe that Islamic rule is a good thing for this world as some proof has been clearly shown that women suffer greatly, poverty reigns strong, a non middle-class-system prevails, and punishments for crime can be considered inhumane. However, again, who are we to enforce Democracy on a people that clearly DO NOT want democratic rule? Although individual Muslims might, Islamic culture as a whole does not want Playboy magazine, Janet Jackson nipples, the World Wrestling Federation, the bloods and crypts, Jessie Jacksons, Jerry Falwells, Madonnas, abortion clinics, public debates, atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, a supreme court, the ACLU, affirmative action, dildos, vibrators, strip clubs, political parties, and Ubersite.
The vision.
We need to pull out, and I'm not talking a method of birth-control. We need to pull every U.S. serviceperson out of every country where they are serving and bring them back home. Come home boys, we want you back here at home! We need to FIX our kitchen before we work on our neighbor's garage. We need to clean up our education system, the inner-cities, and we need to fix race-relations in this country. We have plenty in our house that needs-a-fixin, and we need to quit our policy as the World-Police. What ever happened to "Speak softly and carry a big stick?" We need to speak softly, and carry a big stick. If a nation purposely tries to destroy the United States, then we defend ourselves, but we DO NOT need to go on the offensive. I believe.... no I know.... that if we leave other countries alone, there is a good chance hatred for the United States will subdue. Maybe the Middle East will ever be as prosperous as they might have been with our help, but at least they will be where they are because of their own actions. If they prosper, they get the credit. If they fail, they have no one to blame but themselves. Life is too short to be fighting, we need to stop this bullshit and give peace a chance.
"All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance"
- J. Lennon
User Reviews
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-04-02 23:05:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I would say amen to what domenad posted below, but I don't want want to run the risk of getting pigeonholed as a bible-thumping right-wing extremist.
But he is right.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-04-02 18:17:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Sorry, but what Loki and a few others don't seem to get is that peace is not the absence of conflict. Rizzo said it perfectly - the consequences of inaction are greater than that of action. During the Clinton years, our responses to terrorism were measured and restrained. The attacks continued. Now we take the fight to the terrorists. It means NOTHING if Saddam was involved with 9/11, not to me. Saddam supported Hamas and Ansar Al Islam, two Islamic terror groups. That means he's a legitimate target.
I think it was Bob who nailed it dead on squarely - the US could simply abandon Israel and most of this tension would go away....for awhile. Listen to the extremists, people - they're the ones who show you where the body of people will be leading. Listen to the mullahs, who declare that they will not rest until the Islamic Caliphate of old is reestablished and Islam rules the world. Listen to the head of CAIR stating that he thinks the US should be an Islamic republic. Look at the anti-semitism and rapes occurring in Muslim ghettoes in France. Look at women in Pakistan who have acid thrown on them for not wearing the abaya or burqa. Then, just maybe, you will understand that not only did this war need to be fought, it needs to be expanded and continued, until Muslims learn what it took Christians about a thousand years to get straight - we will not be converted at the point of the gun. Peace is not worth giving up your freedom.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-04-02 15:31:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Well you got to say this about the war: its keeping a shitload of people employeed.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:55:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Go ask 100 random people wether or not they care about the actually Iraq people. Youll be lucky to get 30 who say yes. (If they are all truthful)
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My guess would be less than five.
Like i said before, the will of the terrorists is stronger then the tolerance of americans. Remember Vietnam? Well, welcome to version 2.0
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Yep. Because both were "humane" wars. We unleashed the hounds for a few days to show who's boss, then we re-leashed them. Now the Iraqis are poking at the dog with a stick because it's tied. Let the dogs loose again.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:38:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Sorry about the horrible spelling and grammer errors. When i do proofread, my work is terrible.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:37:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"The people rule, but only on election day."
Exactly, but election days isnt only ever 4 years. With Senate and House elections staggered the means elections can at pretty short regular intervals. Just enought time for bob and mary smith to realize that there son SHOULD NOT be going to Iraq to die for the freedom of people they dont give two fucks bout.
Go ask 100 random people wether or not they care about the actually Iraq people. Youll be lucky to get 30 who say yes. (If they are all truthful)
Like i said before, the will of the terrorists is stronger then the tolerance of americans. Remember Vietnam? Well, welcome to version 2.0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:36:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
It was a bad idea from the start and it still is. The problem is that we can't just pull out now. If we do it will become the very terrorist breeding ground that Bush claimed it was when we went in. Basically, we're fucked now.
Who are you and what have you done with TMA?
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:16:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This is a democracy and the people rule. People dont want to see their friends and family dying in a war they deem unnecssary. Its only a matter of time before public opinion gets to the point where it would political sucidie for a canidate to want to continue the war.
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Yes and no.
The people rule, but only on election day. This is why it is called a representative democracy. If the knowledge about foreign threats were to become unclassified, there would be mass hysteria.
So it is unnecessary to protect our own Nation? Politically, we need to slash and burn. We overthrew the government of Iraq in days, but we left the bastards that want to bomb us in their cozy little mud huts. We should teach them a serious lesson that "if you fuck with me, you get fucked with" to quote Adam Sandler's talking goat. I'm talking a 1945 Berlin type lesson. Leave them with nothing. We've been warm and fuzzy for too damn long. We're twiddling our military thumbs waiting for them to get their shit together governmentally, while the guerillas pick our men off one at a time.
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:15:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
good point, RB
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:13:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Wow TMA, I can't believe this is coming from you. Nice job.
Now, Razor, look at this:
'The thing that royally pisses me off is that they started it, and now we're the bad guys. "
This is the mentality that you share with BKB, and its the reason why conflict cannot be settled without war. He even said during his reply that the Iraqi's have an eye-for-eye mentality, but that quote is eye-for-eye if I have ever seen it. Not to mention the fact that the statement "they started it" is entirely arguable...
Anyways, yes, the US is basically the only means to police the world, but they are doing so acording to their own judgement and agenda. If the US military was the backing force for the UN (or what the UN ideally represents...) you would've been in Iraq a long time ago to oust Saddam, much before 9/11, but might not even have had to in the first place considering it was US influence who helped him rise to such a post.
Yes, mistakes are made, and the US probably shouldn't have supported Saddam to help against the Iranian threat at the time. But learn your fucking lesson. Quit meddling and trying to control things you shouldn't be! That means in Isreal, that means in Iraq, that means with North Korea.
TMA is right. You have your own problems to worry about. Deal with those.
In the meantime, stop posing that you're saving humanity from itself by taking out one or two dictators every few decades. If you want to clean the world of little hitlers, then do it and do it by any means necessary.. but don't go in on missions that are CLEARLY for your own benefit under the premise that it's good for the people and all of humanity!!
Jeez.
Awesome post TMA
Submitted by Tom (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:08:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I actually printed this off and handed it to my dad for a read. He said he, as well, agrees and that it is a very smart opinion.
I think he liked the part about the dildos.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:01:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
We will win, but it will take a very long time to drain them. Remember that more American lives were lost in a few minutes on 9/11 than in the past year in Iraq.
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Wrong.
The US will not outlast the terrorists. It has been what, a year? And already the US is divded with many people screaming for the troops to come back.
This is a democracy and the people rule. People dont want to see their friends and family dying in a war they deem unnecssary. Its only a matter of time before public opinion gets to the point where it would political sucidie for a canidate to want to continue the war.
On the other hands you have religious zealouts who believe what they are doing is God's work. God is an IMMENSE driving force for any people. Especially for a country where the majority of people are young and poor.
The will of a group of poor, young, people willing to put their live on the line to do God's work to stop what they percieve to be invades > the average americans tolerance for seeing loved ones die.
Sorry, but thats the truth.
Submitted by Herpes (user info) at 2004-04-02 14:00:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by The.Masked.Assailant (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:59:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Razor, Domenad, Bob
You all make an excellent point. One I don't know the answers for.
Yes Razor you're right, not doing anything could cause a major standoff like the Cold War, but at least we can say we tried to give peace a chance. Right now I fear that we are LOSING the long-term battle for peace. Yes we got rid of that tyrant Saddam. But these people don't care, they want us out. The Muslim world sees us as occupants, not as liberators. Even though we think we did the right thing, the Muslim world feels otherwise. No matter what we do to help them, they show that they DO NOT want our help.
I always wondered why kids that didn't like each other fought on the playground. No matter how hard one kid hit the other; they never seemed to like each other any better!? Right now, we are kicking the other kid's ass, (and we want him to thank us for it). It's not going to happen no matter how strongly we believe the ass-kicking is justified. Yes they have problems, but they want to fix them on their own. Imagine your toilet breaks down, and 200 plumbers break down your door, kill your mother, and manage to do a half-ass job fixing your toilet. And now they want a thank-you. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Domenad, I'm not anti-war here. I just believe that we are Winning a battle (physical fighting) but we are LOSING a War (ideological viewpoints). And this ideological war is going to turn in to something very big, something I don't want to see in my lifetime. This is scary stuff man, and I don't have the answers. I just want a world with peace.
Bob, "The only way that we are truly going to EVER end the conflict there is to abandon support for Israel." Bob, this is also right on the money and will have to be addressed at some point by our government.
(Yes, Reallybored, Tom - thanks guys that means a lot to me)
Submitted by dohnuts (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:59:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Except Iraq never attacked us and had nothing to do with 9/11.
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:55:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
We must start at home, and ship all the ghetto black and white people to Africa, and we shall have peace on Earth :)
Submitted by dohnuts (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:51:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Damn, I never thought I would find myself saying this about an analysis that referenced Red Dawn, but... Good point!
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:47:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
You have made a strong argument, however, you have overlooked the strategic reason for being there. The main lesson that the U.S. learned in WWII was to take the fighting abroad - not on our soil. 9/11/01 was the first attack on the United States on US soil since the War Between the States. (Hawaii wasn't a state until 1959, so Pearl Harbor doesn't count for the sake of my argument.) The most dispicable thing about 9/11 was that the target wasn't a military target, it was in a densely crowded civilian area. The main goal of the Conflict in Iraq was to get the terror attacks out of the domestic US - to take it to where they live, and see how they like it. We have accomplished that. Now attrition is the name of the game, meaning to see who can last longer, who has more weaponry, who has more rescources. We will win, but it will take a very long time to drain them. Remember that more American lives were lost in a few minutes on 9/11 than in the past year in Iraq.
Sadly, now our mission in the Middle East is to protect the people there from themselves. Their culture is one of eye-for-an-eye violence. The only way that we are truly going to EVER end the conflict there is to abondon support for Israel. If it wasn't for Zionism, the Arabs would be happy jockeying their camels and growing their opium. A decent portion of our defense spending goes to defend Israel, not our own people. Israel is very capable of defending itself and doesn't need our help.
Remember the movie Red Dawn? Yeah, the one with Patrick Swayze, Charlie Sheen, and that guy that painted his skin black in Soul Man? That movie kicked all sorts of ass! For those of you who may be too young to remember the movie, the plot was about a bunch of American kids who resisted a Soviet invasion in their home town. Getting back on point, that's all that a lot of these Arab kids are doing to us - resisting. There is no changing this Red Dawn Mentality of the Arabs/Iraqis who see us as invaders that came to defile their land. The thing that royally pisses me off is that they started it, and now we're the bad guys.
The terrorists are winning because they have tripped our economy, baited us into a war, and divided us against ourselves. It's a catch-22 situation because if we ignore them, more shit in the US is going to crash or explode and civilians are at risk. If we pursue them, we're international bullies who are putting the lives of our troops at risk. I think that our military is doing what they have to do for OUR safety, and the training and technology that the men and women in uniform have will keep them safe. When you're a soldier, you are assuming a risk. Civilians should not have to be faced with the risks of a soldier.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:33:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Also, TMA, post more like this and drop the "troll" act, and you'll get a lot better response from people.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:31:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
domenad - EXACTLY.
The consequences of inaction are greater than any other choice.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:29:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Peace is not the absence of conflict. You disappoint me.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:29:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
There are a number of reasons that this cannot be the case. (Note, I am against the war in Iraq, after being intially for it)
First and foremost, it only takes one side to make a war happen, no matter how much people would like to avoid that truth. The "other" side has every interest in taking this war all the way to the end, which would be a one-world Islamic caliphate. Do not fool yourself. Radical Islam has always been and will always be checked by one thing and one thing only - force. It's the only language they understand.
Secondly, we live in a time when technology has progressed to the point that we cannot just afford to leave enemies alone. The potential for the destruction not only of a number of people, but the entirety of the human race, and the entirety of life on this planet, is far too great to be ignored.
It's like pollution. You can stick your head in the sand and wait for it to go away, or you can deal with it before everything gets fucked up beyond belief.
The United States has an obligation as the preeminent power in the world to prevent humanity from plunging over the cliff of mutually assured destruction. Do not forget how close things came when the USSR attempted to put missles on Cuba.
The European Union is strong evidence of what CAN be done in this world.
The people of the Middle East are going to have to learn the same lesson that the Europeans did eventually... and hopefully the learning won't be as ugly as WWI and WWII.
Submitted by Yes (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:24:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by dohnuts (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:18:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
"and we need to quit our policy as the World-Police"
This, by the way, was a cornerstone of Bush's original campaign platform as he criticized our involvement in former-Yugoslavia, which was part of a NATO sanctioned mission to prevent the genocide ("ethnic cleansing") being committed by primarily Christian Serbians against primarily Muslim Ethnic Albanians.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:17:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This was one of the best posts I have ever read.
Submitted by Tom (user info) at 2004-04-02 13:15:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree. I think this war was based more on past grudges rather than current problems.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-04-02 13:06:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i hope my poor reputation on this website does not impede what i am trying to say.