You don't know shit about Iraq - Interesting Article (773 hits)
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Submitted by Roman - webmaster.at.uberpages.com (View user info) at 2004-06-10 12:22:07 EDT
You don't know shit about Iraq
by Chris Bowers
Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 16:10:47 EDT
Its about time that I sat down and told you this. I was hoping it wouldn't have to be me, but someone needed to finally do it. For quite some time now, you have been going off about what we "need" to do in Iraq. You have been telling us how "things are going" over there, and making suggestions and proclamations about what "we need to do" based on what you seem to believe is a wealth of knowledge about the situation.
Well, I'm here to finally tell you what you what no one else seems willing to say: you don't know shit about Iraq. In fact, you don't even know how much shit there is about Iraq that you don't know.
For starters, you don't speak Arabic. In fact, there's a pretty good chance you don't even know someone who speaks Arabic. Further, you probably don't even know what percentage of Iraqis speak Arabic. I know for damn certain that you don't speak Kurdish.
Second, you have never been to Iraq. You may have seen a few maps on TV, but you have never actually been there. There is even a reasonable chance that you could not identify Iraq on a blank map. Almost certainly you do not know which countries border Iraq, without looking at a map. Its very likely you have never met anyone from Iraq, even if you have seen a few on TV.
Third, you probably know fuck all about Islam. You don't know what the word means in Arabic. You don't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite Islam. You don't know which type of Islam is more common in the region or in the world. you don't known when Ramadan is. You don't know when Muslims pray. You don't know where Mecca and Medina are. you don't know why those two cities are so important in the religion. You don't know when Mohammad lived. You have never read the Koran. You probably have even read part of it. You don't know what is forbidden by Islam, or what is permitted. You have maybe one Muslim friend.
Fourth, you have no clue about the history of the region. You have never heard of the Ottoman empire. You don't know about regional politics and the nineteenth century. You don't know what the British did in Iraq. You don't know about WWI in the region. You don't know when Iraq became independent. You don't know when Saddam Hussein took power. Even though you were alive the entire time, you don't know when the Iran-Iraq war took place. Before the war started, you only knew the same of one city in Iraq--Baghdad.
Fifth, you have no fucking idea what our military capability actually is. you couldn't even guess within 300,000 troops how many are available for active duty. You have no idea how many are deployed in different parts of the world. You don't know the location of more than three military bases. You don't know what type of weaponry, armor and vehicle the military currently uses. You don't even know the order of ranks among enlisted men in the Marines. Hell, you don't know if the Marines are part of the Army or if they are a separate branch of the armed services. You don't know what the military budget is. You don't know what congressional committees oversee military activities. You don't know how long a standard tour of duty lasts. You don't know the demographic composition of the armed forces.
Sixth, you don't know anything about the so-called "Iraqi resistance." You don't know what their motives are. You don't know what their goals are. you don't know how many of them there are. You don't know what groups they are affiliated with. You don't know how many are native Iraqis, how many are not from Iraq, or how many used to be part of Saddam's regime. You don't know what kind of tactics they use. You don't know how much public support they have. You don't know if they are one group or several groups. You don't know their political or religious beliefs. You don't know if they are losing strength or gaining strength.
Seventh, you don't have the slightest clue about the structure of Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. You don't know where they operate from. You don't know where their funding comes from. You don't know their plans. You don't know their strengths or weaknesses. You don't know which organizations operate out of which countries. you don't know what their goals are. You don't know where they draw their recruits from. You don't know how many people hate them and how many people sympathize with them. You don't know what connections they have with each other or with current regimes. You don't know how these organizations are run, or if there are factional splits within them. You don't know the names of more than three of their leaders. You probably could not even write a definition of the word "terrorist."
Eighth, you probably have never been a civilian in a war zone. You saw the attacks of 9/11 on television, but you probably didn't experience them, or know anyone who did. Your town has probably never been bombed or invaded. You have never seen your country overthrown in a violent coup. You have probably never lived under a dictatorship. You almost certainly do not know what its like to face jail simply for speaking up for your beliefs.
Ninth, you know absolutely nothing about Iraqi public opinion. You don't know what people over there are thinking. You don't know what people are thinking in different regions of the country. You don't know what they would like to see in a government. You have no idea what their idea of justice and democracy is. You may have heard a snippet of a poll or two, but since you don't know how those polls were conducted, what the methodology is, and how scientific such a poll is in relation to other polls, you really have no fucking clue what even the so called "general" sentiment is. you don't know how many Iraqis welcome the presence of U. S. troops. You don't know how many Iraqis wish U.S. troops harm. You don't know what people there are thinking, and you probably never will.
Tenth, you almost certainly do not know what its like to face combat. There is a decent chance that you know someone how is facing combat, but you can't understand what they are going through.
Eleventh, what little you do know, or what little you think you know, comes entirely from the mass media. You might question the way the media presents its stories, but you make no real effort to find information from other sources. Hell, you don't even follow the events in the mass media that closely. Maybe a couple of times a week you will actually watch the news all the way through. You know more about "Friends" or the "American Idol," than you know bout recent events in Iraq. You certainly have never actually watched or read anything from Al-Jazeera, even though you often deride the way it covers the news.
Twelfth, you can't possibly have the slightest idea how things in Iraq will change as time progresses. No one knows that. you can not see into the future. You don't know how it all will end. You don't know what will happen next.
Thirteenth, you know jackshit about the United Nations and international diplomacy. You don't know which countries are in the "Arab League." You can't name even half of the members of the U.N. security council. You don't know when the U.N. was founded, and you have never read the U.N. charter. you don't know where U.N. troops are currently deployed. You don't know the budget of the U.N., and you don't know where that money comes from. You don't understand U.N. voting procedures. Maybe, just maybe you know what city the U.N. headquarters are in. you certainly don't know all the members of NATO, the EU, or the "non-aligned" movement.
Fourteenth, you definitely do not know "what the world thinks about the U. S." You do not have a clear understanding of the opinion of the U.S. in very many, if any, countries of the world. Hell, you probably don't even know the names of more than six heads of state throughout the world, much less what they think of the U.S. You don't even know why other countries think certain things about us. You may have a guess, but let me tell you right now, that guess is probably way off.
Fifteenth, you don't know crap about economics. you don't know how the federal reserve system works. you don't know how OPEC works. You don't know how the unemployment rate is defined. You don't understand currency or gold markets. There is absolutely no way you understand you these structures are connected to the building of a functioning nation-state. Trade agreements? Please. you have never read one in your entire life.
Sixteenth, even though you always talk about Democracy, I bet you couldn't even define what you mean by that. Go ahead and try. Define it in three sentences or less. Now, try to explain how that was achieved in this country. Goooood luck.
Seventeenth, if you actually managed to come up with something about what you mean by Democracy and how it was achieved in America, try to come up with a way that "we" can go about accomplishing the same thing in Iraq in just a matter of a year or two, if ever. When making this calculation, don't forget to take into account of the things I have pointed out to you that you don't know.
I'm only saying this so that you will stop pretending that you know the solution to "the situation in Iraq." You don't have a clue. Even if you did know all of the things I listed, you still would only have a cursory understanding of how to help "the situation." Even then, the best you could do was offer a semi-demi-psuedo educated guess about the best course of action that would be rife with sweeping generalizations and the lacking in significant evidence. Even then, you might as well use a dartboard.
However, you don't even have close to that cursory understanding of what is taking place, and neither do I. Just about the only thing you and I can know for certain is that over 800 coalition troops have lost their lives in Iraq, and over 10,000 Iraqi civilians have also died. These numbers can be proven. Not much else can be.
Considering all of this, I would appreciate it if you stopped telling everyone what should be done over there. You don't know what needs to be done, and I don't either. This is something you need to remember in the future whenever another one of our "elected" officials tells us that a nation that has not attacked us is a "threat to our security" and that we need to engage in "regime change" to fix the situation. When they say this, tell them bullshit. when they say it will be a clean and easy procress, them htem bull fucking shit. Please remember how messed up things are in reality, no matter how they sound in a neatly prepared speech. Please remember how little you actually know about these situations, and beg "our leaders" to remember the same thing about themselves, because the last thing we need is to get into another situation like this that no one knows how to fix.
-------
Your thoughts? I think it's pretty decent.
User Reviews
Submitted by GodChicken (user info) at 2004-06-11 01:57:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by dakingisdead (user info) at 2004-06-11 01:30:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well he said it all. Most people will still think they know more than he intimates. However they will all still know jack shit because they cannot possibly know all the sides of these equations.
Submitted by Nator (user info) at 2004-06-10 18:30:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Meh at 2004-06-10 17:25:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
It's ok, except I don't like assholes talking down to me. Especially since I know most of the stuff he says that I don't (its like 15 or 16 out of 17.Cut me some slack I'm not even a junior yet). So that guy can blow me.
Submitted by shadowdragon (user info) at 2004-06-10 17:25:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Alright, so maybe we don't know shit about Iraq's culture and political situation.
What the fuck do they know about us?
And I'm very hopeful there are people in Washington DC who DO know all of that.
Submitted by TonyMontana (user info) at 2004-06-10 17:04:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The point of this article isn't to specifically point out each and every detail of what you don't know. The point was that we shouldn't jump to broad over-reaching conclusions without a considerable amount of knowledge of what we're dealing with. And when the issue of what we're dealing with is a costly war that will be paid in both cash and tens of thousands of human lives, then we should know damn well everything we possibly can before doing or saying anything about the issue.
Submitted by TaK (user info) at 2004-06-10 16:25:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've felt this way for a long time. I am in complete agreeance.
What the other assholes here fail to realize in immediately
becoming offended with the tone of this essay is that a reaction
like that is exactly the type of mind set this man is talking about.
Instead of defending yourself, you should all stop rubbing your
pet egos and realize that even if you do know some of this stuff,
it doesn't change the fact that the majority of the WORLD does not.
Although men like me and Mr. Bowers here should really just shut our
mouths and let boys be boys. There is no talkin reason to an unreasonable
child.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2004-06-10 15:50:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Let's run off a checklist of how much ass this post kicked:
1. Insulting? CHECK
2. Anti-Bush? CHECK
3. Condescending? CHECK
4. Thorough? CHECK
5. Long? CHECK
Holy shit this post has everything.
This seriously ruled. Keep 'em coming.
Submitted by DarkWraith (user info) at 2004-06-10 15:49:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
You don't have to know what kind of poisoness snake your dealing with to know that you have to blow it up.
And, fortinatly for me, I know my military at least. :D
Submitted by GhostFox04 (user info) at 2004-06-10 15:40:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
1) Correct & Incorrect. My understanding of Arabic is limited, However my family does know an Iraqi exile family who speak beautiful arabic.
2) I have never been to Iraq, but I do know where it is, can pick it out on a blank map and know which countries border it. And as above, I do know someone from Iraq. Three someones to be exact.
3)I do understand Islam. It means "submission" in arabic, coming from the term "aslama" meaning to surrender oneself. It is fundamental for understandning Islam, becuase the basic tenet of the religion is submitting yourself to gods will, not your own. I do understand the difference between Sunni and Shiite muslims. Sunni's believe that the first four caliphs rightfully took Mohammeds place as the sucessors to the leader of Muslims. They recognize the heirs of the four caliphs as legitimate religious leaders. Shiites believe that only the heirs of the fourth caliph, Ali, are the legitimate successors of Mohammed. 65% of Iraqis are Shiites, while 32% are Sunnis. I do know when Ramadan is. I do know when Muslims pray. I do know where Mecca and Medina are. I do know why those two cities are so important in the religion. I do know when Mohammad lived. I have studied the Qu'ran. I do know what is forbidden by Islam (suicide), I do know what is permitted (martyrism).
4) I do know the history of the region. I know all about the Ottomen empire, which lasted from 1350 to 1918. I know about the british, and WW1, and Iraq became the first LoN mandate state to achieve independance in 1932. Saddam formally assumed power in 1980. The Iraq-Iran war started shortly after. I know of many cities in Iraq. Should I name them?
5) I have a great idea of what our enlisted men are capable of, where most of them are stationed (The US has millitary personale in over 100 countries at any given time). I know the weapons they use, and I know the ranks of Marines well. My brother was a marine intelligence officer (no jokes about it being an oxymoron).
6) I do know about the Iraqi resistance, and that their motives are to restore the brutal group to power that made their lives so much better then everyone elses in Iraq. I also know that less then 10% of iraqis think it is ok to perpatrate attacks against coalition forces.
7) I have a basic concept of the cell orginization of Al-qaeda and other terrorists orginizations like it. It is currently known to operate in 60+ countries. Would you like a list?
8) Correct. Living in NY, I wasn't in the towers, but I did expirence it. My aunt was actually taking her infant daughter to the doctor that morning because of an ear infection and that was the only reason she was not in her office in the south tower that day. Four people I knew from high school were not so lucky. Interns.
9) I do know a lot about Iraqi public opinion. I can read, apparently unlike you.
10) Correct. I have never been in combat.
11) I watch and read Al-jazeera excerpts daily, along with many other news orginizations from around the world. And yes, I do deride it, because they openly hate jews.
12) I don't know what will happen next, but I do know and understand the goals. Maybe you don't?
13) I do know about the UN and about how it is an international joke. I can name every country in the arab league, the UN security council, NATO and the EU.
14) I do know what the world thinks about the US, and I know that much of the anger stems from ignorance and jealousy. And no, the world doesn't hate the US. The squeaky wheel gets the grease is all.
15) I have a solid understanding of economics, and how the federal reserve works. I know how OPEC works, or doesn't work is more correct. I do trade in currency exchange and commodity markets and have not lost my shirt, so I think I probably have some grasp of how it works. I have read a few trade agreements believe it or not. Boring as hell. I hope I never read another one, but I like being informed.
16) Democracy is govt. by the people for the people. Oh, look at that. One sentance. Every good thing you see in this country was achieved by it.
17) The quickest way to achieve democracy in Iraq is to show the people that they can use it to change their lives for better. I cannot give you a timeline for doing that. It is up to them.
Please in the future do not confuse your ignorance with others. I am sure that you do not understand any of these things, and therefore I'll give you a -1 for trying. However do not be fool enough to believe that everyone in the world or this country is as ignorant as you are. You have the largest source of information in the entire world at your fingertips. You could probably answer everyone of your questions if you spent enough time searching. So go forth and learn. The fewer ignorant people in the world, the better I feel about us not all killing ourselves.
Good luck.
Submitted by whataefag (user info) at 2004-06-10 14:33:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Yes I do, but yes this was an interesting article.
Submitted by NotApologizing (user info) at 2004-06-10 14:33:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by freebie (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:05:13 (#)
Ranking: -1
This is not interesting.
Interesting would have been educating instead of point after point of what is not widely known.
Same shit could be said for any area of the world I don't personally live in.
~~~~~~
furthermore, if we take this stance on every situation, war-related or otherwise, we'd never do anything except roll logs down hillsides in montana.
Submitted by Flapjacksupreme (user info) at 2004-06-10 14:29:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good stuff.
Submitted by Stin (user info) at 2004-06-10 14:14:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-06-10 14:07:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Sci-Fi_Man (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:43:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
While I understand your...what your saying...well...I um...ya know...its...I...I would...thats...geez...but...if...considering...so...you might...I think...O SHUT UP!
:)
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-06-10 13:29:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
All I know is that eating too many eggs makes me go poopy.
Submitted by Yes (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:25:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i've actually lived in the middle east, and know quite a bit about the stuff that is on this list.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:25:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know everything about everything.
Submitted by Amusingly_shaped_semen_stain (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:23:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I knew the first four. Do I get a prize?
Submitted by iamhewhoisnot (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:19:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Thanatos (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:10:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by freebie (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:05:13 (#)
Ranking: -1
This is not interesting.
Interesting would have been educating instead of point after point of what is not widely known.
Same shit could be said for any area of the world I don't personally live in.
You missed the point of the article. It wasn't to explain all these things to you, it was to point out the fact that everyone seems to be spouting opinions about things they know nothing about. How is he supposed to teach you about the Federal Reserve in one short article? Or give you experience in a war zone? Or teach you Kurdish?
I'm fairly certain I knew more about most of these subjects than a large portion of the population, and yet I realize I still know almost nothing about Iraq, the conflict, or the nation building that is going on.
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:08:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
yes it is an interesting article, but the author needs to come off the goldarned answers, or shut his mouth!
I already knew, how little I knew.
Submitted by freebie (user info) at 2004-06-10 13:05:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
This is not interesting.
Interesting would have been educating instead of point after point of what is not widely known.
Same shit could be said for any area of the world I don't personally live in.
Submitted by wazzawazzayo (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:56:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Thank you for the new perspective. Although, I still believe the US should get out.
Submitted by K.M (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:54:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
ur rite cos irak is 1 of those cuntries that just doesnt hav any histry 4 us to read or b able 2 understand let alohn the ecunumic motevatetions of the Tree adminastration. PlUs 2 for you for being so rite!!! one ! !!! ;)!
Submitted by mokraut <mokraut.at.hotmail.com> at 2004-06-10 12:47:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
great post. question is, do we become sheep following a blundering blustering idiot who _definately_ doesn't know any of that stuff, or do we get worked up over things that we can't do anything about? or do nothing but smoke pot till we're drafted?
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:44:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Roman = 352
ALL OF YOU, INCLUDING ME = HIGHER THAN THAT
Therefore...don't diss him1
Submitted by Roman (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:43:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yeah, It's early and I just got in to work. Just loooking to see what kind of reaction it gets. :)
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:42:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
+1m because it was only a cut and paste.
My obvious answer to the author is : So tell me.
Submitted by jeeves (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:41:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Jeeves butlered in Iraq... guess for whom?
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:40:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yes there are idiots out there. You were doing decent untill you had to jump of the middle ground and fuck any neutral position all to hell with you last paragraph.
Our officials were "elected." Unless you live somewhere other than the U.S, UK, Canada, Australia, the "West". The system that is in place elected them. They didn't take over by military coup. So fuck off with your damn little "".
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:39:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thank you, Dr. Self-righteous.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:37:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
For a second I thought this site was about airing an opinion.
Submitted by vergedor (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:35:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
He's right. I don't know shit about Irak. But I know the solution: everybody should hug, make peace and intoxicate themselves with their drug or religion of choice.
Submitted by Whiskey_Sour (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:31:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with this
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:30:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Apparently this guy assumes everyone is as much of an idiot as he is. He may be right, and I'd wholeheartedly throw my arms around more people educating themselves and shutting their pie holes. But just because HE's ignorant, don't assume I am.
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-06-10 12:29:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is now an Uber reference post to all future Iraq posts, accompanied with a -2.