Can God and Free Will Coexist? (709 hits)
Category: NoneRating: -1.13 on 18 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Chocobo (View user info) at 2004-06-15 06:27:26 EDT
Can God and Free Will Coexist?
Ever ask a religious person why god lets bad things happen? You will usually get one of two answers: free will or it somehow fits into god's big plan.
We shall venture into the 'free will' explanation.
Now lets look into dictionary.com's first definition of 'god':
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
Most would consider "A" to be the correct definition.
Lets take a closer look at this particular part: "...omniscient..."
It's defined by dictionary.com as:
Having total knowledge; knowing everything.
Lets say I, who has free will, decides to create a word and definition for the word. How about...
Likasdfadfcmxmmdmmsmdmcxxxx = The ability to cry.
If God knew that I would dash into the forest of knowledge and find this beautiful word/definition combination of fury before it happened, that means it was predetermined, thus taking away my freedom of choice, or free will.
But...that must mean there was a certain amount of time (1 minute, half a minute, 0.000001 seconds, whatever it be) that god did not know of this. Therefore he didn't know everything, he was not omniscient; he would not be god.
With our free will, god can't know everything; he can't be god.
But wait, there's more. This god can't be omnipotent (all-powerful) if he doesn't know everything: say someone devises a plan to control god that god didn't know of.
"Wait, all this for $19.99, and there is _still_ more?"
"Yes, that's right, Jenny"
Combining the previous knowledge, he can't be perfect.
He can be controlled, possibly replaced. Monotheism, I call upon you to collapse to your knees and suck my elegant manhood. Deny thy father and refuse thy name. Meet your newer, Japaneser (and maybe cuter) god:
*Please note that I posted this not as a "I'm right, you're wrong." I thought of this and would like to see it stand strong or be devoured, which ever one seems more correct.
User Reviews
Submitted by tuesdaydelay (user info) at 2004-06-15 15:30:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You are:
http://www.ubersite.com/m/35854
that drawing.
Submitted by Pacifist248 (user info) at 2004-06-15 15:19:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Lojope, are you trying to say that if the future is predetermined and unchangable we still have free will? No.
Digsy, I'm not saying there is or isn't a religious god, I'm just addressing people who use free will as an excuse for bad things.
Bob, free will has everything to do with control. You are either controlled or have free will. If you don't choose to decide, you have made a decision, but if someone created what you did(not deciding), it was not your free will. You would be like a puppet. You may think you choose to move your arm but someone decided that previously.
Submitted by euripidestrousers (user info) at 2004-06-15 12:52:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
No Comment
Submitted by Sci-Fi_Man (user info) at 2004-06-15 12:15:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yes.
Submitted by JinkyWilliams (user info) at 2004-06-15 12:15:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Enter here for a well thought-out post that discusses this very subject by The Midnight:
http://www.ubersite.com/cgi-bin/message_get.cgi?message=108730720989863441
Stay orange.
--JW
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-06-15 12:09:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sigh...
You get a 0 for effort. At least you're thinking. Just read some philosophers man. Start with Descartes.
Submitted by Envenom (user info) at 2004-06-15 09:49:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well said digsy
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-06-15 09:47:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
You can still have free will even if someone knows what you are going to do.
I have a friend I know very well. In any given situation I could easily tell you what decision she will make. Because I know her, I know how her mind works. Does that mean that when she is in said situation she doesn't have the free will to decide? No. It just means that I already knew which choice she would make. She's still the one who made it.
EVerything else you said was jargon.
Submitted by Magicaddict (user info) at 2004-06-15 07:54:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I would say more like Satre after a night on the absinthe.
I am a non-practising Christian. I believe in God and the teachings of the bible (if not the actual word of it). I am also a scientist, and a rational one.
Let's look at another idead - God is indeed infinite, and knows everything. Your new word, out there in the aether. Did God put it there? By the new definition, yes. Is it your free will to create it? Yes.
You were not aware of the word before, and it is your subconscious free will that decides whether or not you will discover it. Just because the door is opened for you does not mean you have to walk through it.
Submitted by DenDen (user info) at 2004-06-15 07:51:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This is such a gross oversimplification that, were I to attempt to address it, I wouldn't know where to start.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-06-15 07:36:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Freewill has nothing to do with control. Freewill is the choice that you're given whether to believe in something or not.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Submitted by Hugeos (user info) at 2004-06-15 07:29:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
wow. It's Descartes reincarnated.
Submitted by MickGinny (user info) at 2004-06-15 07:26:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
that was some incoherent babble.
Submitted by digsy (user info) at 2004-06-15 07:19:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Any slightly intelligent person knows that the religious version of god doesnt exist. As I said, God is a creation of our minds. Our minds cannot comprehend the possibilty that after we die there will be nothing. Just try to think about what 'nothing' is. We can't, so we create something to fill in the gaps, in this case god.
I'm not saying that we are all foolish for this, God provides hope for many people, but what we need to realise is that these so called religions are on par with us creating god in our heads, they are all man made. Fair play to anyone who wants to give up their life to religion, but in my opinion it's rather sad. And even if they were correct, god loves us all equally right?
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-06-15 07:05:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Interesting.
However, does 'Omniscience' really mean you know the totality of everything that has ever and will ever be known, done, said, thought (etc etc)? Personally, I would not interpret 'Omniscience' as being in the possession of total knowledge of both past, present and future. Surely, it means simply knowledge of the totality of the present and the past, therefore, should God exist, he is cognisant of my current actions (typing this post) but is not aware of my future actions, thoughts, knowledge or movements any more so than I am myself. Think of God as a giant computer, aware of the totality of Human (and pre Human) knowledge whilst at the same time instantly aware of events AS they happen, not before, nor after.
Nothing in the description of 'God' you offered indicates that God possesses 'Prescience,' the ability to know things before they occur, are known, are thought etc.
Therefore, if God is in possession of Omniscience only, free will can exist as God is not aware of the future. However, if he possesses Prescience, then free will cannot exist.
So which do you think he has?
Submitted by squattail (user info) at 2004-06-15 06:55:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
God and God's own free will can't exist.
Submitted by Pacifist248 (user info) at 2004-06-15 06:50:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Digsy--That's what I was saying...a religious person's god, the people who would use 'free will' as an explanation for bad.
Submitted by digsy (user info) at 2004-06-15 06:40:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
You're using the definition of god that a Christian or other Religious person would give you, so really you are asking if religion and free will can co exist. The answer is no.
God is whatever people want him to be, in my opinion, we have created him in our own minds to fill the gap created by the absence of an all powerful, cloud dwelling old geezer.