I used to like Michael Moore (1890 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 0.48 on 42 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by worm (View user info) at 2004-06-23 02:30:20 EDT
I saw Bowling for Columbine a while back and I **LOVED** it. I've never left a movie feeling so informed and empowered. I had seen the light and I began to loathe this country and its seemingly backwards politics. As a politically moderate man, I was surprised to find myslef leaning so far to the left.
I even saw him speak live.
It was then that I began to realize who Michael Moore is and how he works. After the live talk, I acknowledged that he was nuts and an asshole, but I still liked his movies. They had something to say, and they were done with eloquence and a razor-sharp wit.
I held onto my admiration of Mr. Moore as a film maker until just a couple days ago when I stumbled upon a few websites that exposed his objectives, complete with responses from the man himself. Michael Moore's films are not documetaries, they are propaganda, in a very real and very scary way.
Documentaries are objective.
Moore's films are fantastically inspiring, but also quite deceptive. The man has political views that he is dying to get out. If there are no means to champion his causes, he will produce them himself.
I'll keep this list (much too) brief. This is meant only to pique your interest in the deception of Bowling for Columbine:
1) The opening scene where Moore picks up a gun at the bank and walks out waving it over his head was staged. He had to deposit $1000 at the bank, do an FBI criminal background check, and stay in the bank for 30 minutes (so he could be easily identified by several people in the bank) before getting his gun. There was no ammo at the bank, the paperwork was cumbersome (despite crafty editing showing that it was just a sweep of a pen), and the gun was to be picked up several miles from the bank.
Moore, however, brought it back to the bank just so he could walk out waving it over his head.
2) Michael Moore's take on Charlton Heston's speech was atrocious. He combined 2 different speeches, even attaching the beginning of one sentence to the end of another to make the speech out to be something it wasn't:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html
~~~
Now, I don't really like Heston but after reading how his speech was manipulated, I was in a rage.
I really believed Michael Moore. I believed what he told me, and I felt like a better person for joining him on a handful of issues after seeing Bowling for Columbine.
He lied to me.
With his new movie coming out, I fear for its audiences. I am afraid that he will have the same tactics with this movie as he did with the last and the general public will not see through his ruse, taking up causes brought upon them by his deception.
I am in no way saying that all his arguments are bogus. In fact, I agree with many of his views but he makes no attempt to be objective. He shows you exactly what he wants you to see, nothing more, nothing less.
Propoganda.
As a final footnote, he is a brief article about Moore's new movie that you guys might find interesting:
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/8844533.htm
The trailer mentioned in the article is still running at his website and can be seen at:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/
-Wo|2M
User Reviews
Submitted by Worm (user info) at 2004-07-18 01:58:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
awww... you're just mad because you got told 3 weeks ago, and you can't let it die.
How does it feel to be a lonely, bitter man, shitfuck?
-Wo|2M
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-07-10 18:31:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Actually I didn't forget to rate, I just came back to lower your already dismal rating and make sure you realize how useless you are as a human being.
PS-I managed to read the first sentence, it sucked. Die.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-07-10 18:30:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh, I forgot to rate.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-07-10 18:30:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I didn't even bother reading this because I think you're a complete fag.
Submitted by Jeinx <Jeinx_112.at.yahoo.com> at 2004-07-02 13:12:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Is it just me or are people blaming Bush for all of the problems of the world. These are the same people screaming for us to go to war in Iraq, until a couple of Liberal whiners that take advantage of everything they can said it was wrong. I say If you dont like it hear move to Iraq. Put Saddam back in power to be your President.
Submitted by Geodescent (user info) at 2004-06-27 00:42:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good to see somebody attack the other side of the popular person.
The point I want to make is that people are so busy rooting for
this "underdog," they don't make any effort so question and
challenge his views for factual accuracy as should be done in
any scientific or general debate forum. For once I am happy to
be proven wrong, at least today.
Submitted by sunjunkie <sunjunkie04.at.mac.com> at 2004-06-24 18:29:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I agree that Micheal Moore is a little bitch. I'm in the Army and have been to Iraq. His Fareinheight 9/11 documentory is bullshit and I hope to shove a glass bottle in his ass and shatter it so the shards fuck up his insides. Then he'll have to shit in a bag and nobody respects someone who had they're shit ruined that bad because they probably deserved it. Michael Moore and all agenda pushing celebrity blackfeet hippies should shut up. Honestly.
Submitted by Worm (user info) at 2004-06-24 18:04:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Random Joe...
If you took the time to read the article, which I'm sure you didn't, you'd have read that I am a moderate.
A moderate would have a hard time being a "right wing loon"...
Asshat.
-Wo|2M
Submitted by WhoLetYouIn (user info) at 2004-06-23 13:26:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Frankly if someone lies to make a point "for the good of the public" it only proves how much of an asshole he is. Regardless of his point of view, I just find his tactics really condescending.
Fuck off Michael Moore.
Submitted by lucid (user info) at 2004-06-23 13:03:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I heard that the best part of 911 is the footage of George Bush doing absolutely nothing right after he's told that the tower was hit by an airplane. It shows him sitting there, not moving or speaking for 6-7 minutes.
Submitted by Nator (user info) at 2004-06-23 12:34:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Dude, Where's My Country?" sucked ass.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-06-23 12:21:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Boo fucking hoo, fucking right-wing pussies, people like Ann coultler talk about killing liberals to keep them in check, and not a fucking peep out of the right, but if Moore even so much as burps you right-wing loons are all over him like stink on shit.
Submitted by Worm (user info) at 2004-06-23 11:16:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think several of you missed the point of this post. THe point was not that everything that MM says is 100% bullshit, but several of his arguments are COMPLETELY fabricated. If you want to take a stand against how your country is running, please do so.
However, basing several of your arguments on half-truths and, at times, straight up lying to your audience is a huge no-no.
~~~
I think I needed a little bit of clarification about objectivity in documentaries:
Last night I saw a documentary on Abraham Lincoln on PBS (public TV). Like MM, whoever made the film could not possibly be completely objective due to his own personal biases, however subtle. However, the writer of the Abe Lincoln Documentary never went out of his/her way to decieve their audience.
Is any documetay competely objective? No, but they always strive to do so. That is why BFC was not a documentary, but propaganda.
~
Bart, there are people who don't lie. The leaders of the democrats and republicans are not among them, but they do exist. It's a pity there aren't more.
Hair, both of the major newspapers from my area are actually quite liberal (Star Tribune and Pioneer Press, of Minneapolis and St. Paul respectively). Fox News is far too conservative, but they've only been around for like 5 years; not very credible in my book. I try to watch BBC or maybe CNN when I can.
~
Whoever flamed for me misspelling "propaganda", eat a dick. Find two more errors and you can give me a yellow star...
fucking forum nazi.
-Wo|2M
Submitted by enraged_baboon (user info) at 2004-06-23 10:48:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Propoganda."
u spel grate
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-06-23 10:15:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Michael Moore is a lying bitch.
Submitted by lawryde (user info) at 2004-06-23 10:13:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Without people like Michael Moore, constantly questioning authority, you mind-as-well read 1984 and start preparing for it.
Submitted by atz (user info) at 2004-06-23 10:11:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"Fahrenheit 9/11. This movie has not yet been rated. Starts this Friday."
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-06-23 09:42:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by Oleannder (user info) at 2004-06-23 09:29:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Everybody puts their spin on something. I am a huge Moore fan but I take what he says with a LARGE grain of salt.
I do like how he keeps picking at the inadequecies in the American government though. Stylin.
Submitted by lamer (user info) at 2004-06-23 09:22:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Money money money, and when I have money... Money.
Submitted by mapleburner21 (user info) at 2004-06-23 09:17:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 Thank you so much. If my +2's a million times would change it, I'd do it.
I hate Michael Moore more than any person alive. He has resulted to the lowest form of argumentation, lying. When one argues in a conflict, there is no making a counter-point, no presentation of alternative cases. It is low and cowardly. Apparantly Moore isn't beyond completely fabricating interviews for his books. Boy did this make me angry so be warned.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/004/127ujhuf.asp
Don't worry about jackasses like bart. Nobody likes being proved wrong, he doesn't understand your argument is about the deception of Michael Moore and your not saying the entire democratic party is that way, (though I wish you could figure out someway to)
Good Luck, keep up the fight
Submitted by SAECULUM.AUREUM (user info) at 2004-06-23 08:54:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Its funny how the ignorant blissful masses are manipulated from both sides. Maybe if people in the US started to talk about politics and religion in bars and pubs...rather than what ever the hell Joe Smoe does talk about...things would be allot different.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-06-23 08:33:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
sophistry is nothing new
Submitted by DenDen (user info) at 2004-06-23 07:45:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Do you really thing that you are so much smarter than most of us that you could see propaganda where we could not? I think most people can see deception for what it is. God knows we get enough practice in sifting through it these days.
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2004-06-23 07:38:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com
Submitted by foetus66 (user info) at 2004-06-23 07:14:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
I would like to make an analogy comparing your world view to a pinball under the control of an average pinball player.
Submitted by Malificent (user info) at 2004-06-23 06:38:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Below is a link to a webpage which goes into detailed dissection and analysis on why Bowling is a great piece of entertainment -- but is bullshit if you are looking for a documentary. It goes into shot-by-shot analysis of some of the most controversial scenes from the movie and explains why Moore is a great movie-maker but his method is little more than the same spin and propoganda he accuses the Bush Administration of using.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Submitted by hairsphincter2 (user info) at 2004-06-23 05:49:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sorry, as an Australian, I find nearly all US media f-right wing.
Maniputalvie times.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-06-23 04:51:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm with bart.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2004-06-23 03:48:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.therightwing.com/
http://www.vastrightwingconspiracy.com/
http://moveon.org
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
It's difficult to find the truth when everyone is lying for different reasons.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-23 03:34:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Damnit, that Random Joe was me.
Submitted by Bennywild (user info) at 2004-06-23 03:33:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Bowling For Columbine is not pro/againt gun lobby. it is not a gun control movie. it is a sociocultural movie that question why america is so violent compared to the rest of the world. the movie's argument is:
america has an equal-to-less violent past than other countries
america has the same exported culture as other countries (often times less explicit than european culture)
america has, give or take, the same amount of guns
yet america is way more violent with the guns.
if the movie makes any political statements at all, it is that blaming gun control, culture, media, marlyn manson, etc. makes as much sense as blaming the two shooters' bowling class.
now...fahrenheit 9/11...i will wager that it WILL have an overt political statement.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-06-23 03:32:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Michael Moore built what little reputation he has on being the 'Champion Of The Working Man' and Mr. Labour and Union Solidarity.
Of course, when some rich people wanted to give one of his 'films' an (undeserved) award, Mr.Labour and Union Solidarity was only too willing to cross a picket line of French film workers picketing for better working conditions.
Submitted by ParlorTrick (user info) at 2004-06-23 03:22:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Loved the movie...but seems like I heard the following argument in there somewhere:
Look at the US - we have a lot of guns and we're killing each other.
Look at Canada - they have a lot of guns and they're not killing each other.
Therefore, the US should get rid of their guns.
(Fun to replace the word 'guns' with other common things like "apples".)
Seems the movie made the case 'it's not the guns it's the Americans.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2004-06-23 03:15:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
He woke us up, didn't he? Although, I'm sure some of your accusations are true, also. There are very few completely honest influential people of any kind...if any.
Submitted by Kellio (user info) at 2004-06-23 03:02:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Did you ever think that the sources of this information may be false? What makes their information any more credible then the information that Mike puts out? Although his methods can be somewhat flawed, it is important to focus on the points he is trying to make.
If there is one thing I have learnt from watching the news and reading newspapers it is that it is impossible to be totally objective when trying to make a point. Even if Mike did portray things in a way that would facilitate the points he was trying to make, it is small fry compared to what the media and government has been doing for years.
Submitted by Hadooken (user info) at 2004-06-23 02:58:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
everytime i see his fat smirking face on tv i want to stab him.
Submitted by Scott_James (user info) at 2004-06-23 02:50:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Old news.
Documentaries were never meant to be 'objective'. That is the myth.
Ask yourself this question about your first viewing of BFC - did you see what you wanted to see or what Michael Moore wanted you to see?
While I do not advocate the manipulation of stock footage - The "Cold dead hands" excerpt is inserted just before the beginning of the actual Columbine speech to emphasise the NRA's defiant disregard for the Mayor's request that they not attend the function scheduled after the killings.
It's manipulative and underhanded, but it still doesn't change the fact that the NRA - and principly Chuck Heston - acted callously in the wake of the tragedy.
Submitted by dakingisdead (user info) at 2004-06-23 02:47:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OH so MM did what every politician, large business, journalist and loby group have always done.
SHAME ON HIM.
The points he made were still valid so two words.
Grow up!
Submitted by UberUser (user info) at 2004-06-23 02:46:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
He's a greedy bastard bitch and I'd approve of his dying in a large fireball.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-06-23 02:43:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The shame of it is, he does some have some decent points, but he goes overboard trying to make his point and villify people he is against. He could probably make a decent documentary, but he would rather lie and making shocking propaganda movies that sell.
Submitted by bargled (user info) at 2004-06-23 02:32:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com