Fahrenheit 911 - Review (5090 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 0.36 on 156 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Glam Daddy (View user info) at 2004-06-25 14:50:34 EDT
http://www.thefreespeechzone.net/
Fahrenheit 911 Review (Minor Spoilers)
Michael Moore is a Mensch. A patriot in the truest sense of the word.
I had been anticipating this film for months and it was everything i was hoping it would be. Moore presents the information in his usual comical way but the subject is so serious it is quite a combination of emotions as you watch it all unfold. It was much more emotionally intense than I had thought it was going to be. Serious tear jerker potential here. Also there is some sequences of pretty dramatic war footage. War is a horror to witness and Moore taps into that quite a bit. The most graphic footage is bunched together so it is possible to close your eyes and miss the rough stuff. But then you are missing the point. War has consequences. And it is important to see an u-sanitized version of 'collateral damage'.
The movie starts off with a surreal account of the 2000 election. Footage we never saw of the congress presiding over the public outcry that followed the election is awkward to watch since it is Gore himself who presided over the session. An interesting and very dramatic sequence.
Michael moore, has been under intense scrutiny in past films has very little on camera time. There are only a few instances where Michael Moore himself gets on camera for his shenanigans. This time he lets the footage speak for itself. And it does just that. This film will be so hard to discredit for just that reason. How can you call Moore a liar for showing footage of Bush acting the fool on camera? All Moore is doing is making this candid version of Bush public. It is Bush's fault for saying these foolish things while cameras roll.
Michael Moore has gotten his hands on footage that Bush must have wished was never shot. Very funny stuff. We see Bush candidly goofing off to the camera moments before he sobers up and the cameras go live and he launches into his sober speech to lead a country to war. Can similar footage most likely be found of any politician if you go through enough films scraps? Sure. Is the points he makes any less potent for knowing that? Not at all. Bush just needs to watch his behavior when cameras roll. Consider it a free bit of advise from Moore to the President.
Moore documents the connections between Bush family and the royal Saudi family very well. He does not jump to conclusions, rather states facts that are a matter of public record to make his point.
He also does a clever bit of his own detective work that is really quite thoughtful. I wont go into details on that since it is a serious spoiler. lets just say Moore had documents in hand that Bush and the white house most likely didn't know he had.
The footage of iraq is extremely intense. Here are kids not old enough to drink, yet immersed in this war. They are growing up very fast out there. One trooper recalls sending in a napalm strike and moments later watching citizens run out of the area that was hit, some of them with most of their faces missing. Many of them are quotes as saying they will no longer support bush after this war.
The sequence near the end following a mother and the experience she has had sending a son off to war and hearing of his death is a tear jerker.
All in all the film was very powerful. Both extremely funny and sobering, it is a bit overwhelming in the amount of information you are presented with, and if I did not already know much of it, it could be a bit hard to retain.
People trying to debunk this film will have a much harder time of it than they did with, say Bowling for columbine. Moore learned from that experience and this time he simply lets the footage of bush do its job. You see bush and his cabinet on film acting like you have never seen them. It's both comical and sad.
The film is both informative and sobering. Is it biased? Hell yes. But all the facts are there. He is not making anything up. Just putting in your face the unfortunate sequence of events that have taken place over the last few years.
I believe the film will do well indeed. It is a powerful tool indeed and presented at just the right moment. My hat goes off to Moore for this one.
We wont get fooled again.
Update: Just for giggles here is the official White House reponse to the film.
"Mr. Moore has every right to produce and show movies that express his very radical views. He's outside of the mainstream. ... This is a film that doesn't require us to actually view it to know it's filled with factual inaccuracies."
There it is, striaght from the top. You don't need to see the film, all lies, alqueda=Saddam, we know where the WMD are, etc, etc... Rinse and repeat.
User Reviews
Submitted by wazzawazzayo (user info) at 2004-07-08 08:34:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Finally saw it last night and there were three or four times where I really had to stop myself from standing up on my seat and throwing my extra large coke at the screen shouting "Bush, you lying cheating muthafucka"! Man, did this movie ever piss me off. Down with Dubya!
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-07-01 09:14:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
saw it - love it, I guess
There were parts of it that were really hard to watch. I really feel for the woman who lost her son in Iraq. Certainly, there are portions of the film that were pure manipulation to prove a point. He listed all the obscure countries in the "coalition of the willing" and left out England and Australia, but he did make his point. I fail to see what the fuss about thing being taken out of context or that he is a liar. Bush and his cronies said what they said with full knowledge that it was on camera. It was a powerful piece of film, quite impressive.
Submitted by DenDen (user info) at 2004-06-30 16:04:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I saw it yesterday. The points of contention made by the other side don?t really have anything to do with the factual basis of the Moore?s argument.
The film is not being shown in the area in which I live due to the influence of powerful Republicans in this state. I had to drive approximately 150 miles each way to see it and it was well worth the trip. I think that everyone should see it. Those who like Bush should see it and they should be able to refute Moore?s arguments with FACTS. Those who don?t like Bush should also see it so that they can fully understand why it is that they need to turn up at the polls this year.
Submitted by Uber Happy <input.at.michael-moore-review.com> at 2004-06-30 15:54:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
[url]http://www.michael-moore-review.com[/url]
Submitted by Da Man <rigor.at.mortis.com> at 2004-06-30 15:49:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
<a href="http://www.michael-moore-review.com/" title="review of Michael Moore movie Fahrenheit 9/11">"Review of Michael Moore Movie Fahrenheit 9/11"</a>
Submitted by Mike Myers <googlewhips.at.yahoo.com> at 2004-06-30 15:43:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Awesome review. You guys should check out what Google is supposedly doing by ranking negative comments against Michael Moore's movie very high. Check out the investigation that is going on at http://www.michael-moore-review.com. Keep up the patriotic march!
Submitted by Arsenal (user info) at 2004-06-30 13:17:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I saw it last night. I really think that if a Bush supporter actually goes they will think twice about their leader. I think that they are either afraid of the truth or so arogant they will ignore a movie that makes several great points just because it has a different opinion as they do, or even more likely it is both.
I think they most important message of the film isn't even against Bush, but against the greedy American's (which includes the Bush family) who support the war becasue they will make money off of it. The scene that shows the conference where corporate repersenatives are talking about the Millions (billions?) they will make off of the war and rebuilding of Iraq is just appalling. This part of Moores movie was expecially powerful cause it followed (or is followed by?) the part where he reminds everyone that those who enlist in the army are often those who can't afford college. Our soldiers are dying so that they can make more money. And what's sad is that they do it with no regret. Either they have convinced themselves somehow that what they are doing is actually right, or they just dont give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-30 02:40:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am going to see this movie, but with the understanding that it is easy to pervert and manipulate context through documentary style cinematography.
With that, I am sick of this topic and sick of this post. You all can Eat my cock, get this post off the most heated list PLEASE.
Submitted by Lost_Gator_Fan (user info) at 2004-06-29 19:25:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Look at the defination of the word Documentary. "Presenting facts objectivly without editorializing..." This was a well designed movie voicing his opinion, but it is not a documentary.
LGF
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-06-29 19:10:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
well, i just got out of the theater, and i must say, this movie impressed me quite a bit. no bullshit from Moore this time. he really did let the footage speak for itself. sure, he used some footage to make Bush and others look like fools (which was funny), and he threw in plenty of smartass comments (which were also funny), but most of the footage told the story. i really liked this documentary. it gives you a good viewpoint that most people could never see otherwise. i really expected to hear myself say "bullshit!" through most of this movie, but i didn't say it once. there's a lot of people that think Moore is full of shit, but this documentary has plenty of facts (unlike other crap he's made in the past) that should make anyone start questioning what the hell this administration is doing.
i loved the part with Britney Spears in it. she's so amazingly stupid, it's unbelievable. "yeah, we should, like, trust our president, like, and stuff." then there were the people that said "sure, it's ok to take away some rights to fight the war on terrorism! nothing wrong with a little comprimise!" i can't believe the complete and utter stupidity some people possess... then there's the heartless bitch who tells the woman who lost a son in Iraq to "blame Al Queda!", like Al Queda killed her son. i'm pretty sure it was Bush's decision to go to Iraq, and he did it based on false pretenses so people like me could die for god knows what reason. it ain't to find weapons of mass destruction, it ain't because Saddamn had a hand in 9/11, and it ain't to "liberate" anyone. another notable part of the film was the footage of all of the businessmen talking about how much money can be made in Iraq. i was sickened almost to the point of regurgitation at the blatant war profiteering these greedy pieces of shit were so excited about.
when i was walking out of the theater, some old guy asked me if i was going to join up, and i told him i was already in the military. he asked me if i was going to re-enlist and i said "not a chance in hell". he patted me on the back, smiled at me, and walked away. at least some people haven't been completely brainwashed...
one thing i've heard people say a lot is "war isn't pretty, but sometimes it's necessary." to those people i say "no the fuck it isn't." dying in the defense of your country is fine, but it is NEVER ok to die for political agenda. unless you really want to... personally, i'd rather live a happy life than die for whatever unbeknownst reason we are in Iraq for.
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-29 16:44:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"yeah. let's crucify bush cause he goofed off before he knew the cameras were on.
you stupid cunt"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
No.
Lets vote bush out because he lead the country to a war the never needed to be faught, against a country that had no capabillity to attack us.
you werent even close.
Submitted by shitass at 2004-06-29 16:42:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
yeah. let's crucify bush cause he goofed off before he knew the cameras were on.
you stupid cunt
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-29 15:04:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by cigar (user info) at 2004-06-28 23:55:27 (#)
Ranking: -2
fucking sheep.
***************
huzzah.
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-29 13:02:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
snackdrag -
"Moore is a sensationalist out to make money. He makes up and distorts facts, he tells half truths... his "undeniable sources" are usually editorial columns by left wingers. "
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OK this should be good times. If moore is such a liar, then you should be able to list some of these lies and I will be happy to discuss them with you.
So far the best argument I have heard made against this film is that michael moore is fat. and that he made money off of the film.
both of those arguments are stupid and only serve to make it obvious that there are very few false accusations in the film.
all you people comming here and just calling me a faggot. come forward and tell me why the film is wrong. talking trash only makes it obvious that you cant name a single fault with the film.
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-29 12:57:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
domenad -
Glamdaddy, I"ll point out a very obvious lie portrayed in Moore's movie. He asserts that BUSH permitted the Bin Laden family to leave the US after the terrorism of 9/11. Richard Clark asserts in his own book that it was he who authorized them to leave. Very clear, succinct. A lie is evident. Will you now deliver?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
No.
You obviously have not seen the film. And you have seen the trailer. In the trailer after he says the flights were cleared he shows Bush's name. In the movie that does not happen. MM does not name Bush as the one who cleared the saudi flight in the film. He doesnt name any names. He says somthing like 'approved from the top' or some such.
furthermore yes clarke did have the saudi flight order on his desk. but what you dont mention is this little tidbit where after getting the order he questions the logic in it. Lets go the the 911 commission transcripts:
"The request came to me and I refused to approve it. I suggested that it be routed to the FBI and that the FBI look at the names of the individuals who were going to be on the passenger manifest and that they approve it -- or not. I spoke with at that time the number two person in the FBI, Dale Watson, and asked him to deal with this issue. The FBI then approved -- after some period of time, and I can't tell you how long -- approved the flight."
- Clarke
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/24/bn.00.html
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-06-29 09:45:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
But it's impossible to be pro-Moore and not be a hypocrit.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-06-29 09:26:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It is possible to be anit-Clinton and anti-Bush without being a hypocrit.
Submitted by snackdrag (user info) at 2004-06-29 08:47:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Moore is a sensationalist out to make money. He makes up and distorts facts, he tells half truths... his "undeniable sources" are usually editorial columns by left wingers.
Moore want's MOORE MONEY! that's why he does these things. Rush Limbaugh does the same, but atleast he's consistant, Moore flip flops to wherever he feels he can make the most money. Anti Clinton, Anti Bush, Anti-everything. Being against something always makes you the talk of the town.
lame...
god damned lemmings.
Submitted by UNconfused (user info) at 2004-06-29 03:17:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Moore isn't worth giving the time of day to. The media gives him plenty of attention, even though he's full of crap and deliberately takes things out of context.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-29 02:39:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
**Nope sorry Quatermain, you're still just coming off as retarded.**
I think you're confusing me with the people you give blowjobs to behind pubs for nickels.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-29 02:26:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nope sorry Quatermain, you're still just coming off as retarded.
Submitted by cigar (user info) at 2004-06-28 23:55:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
fucking sheep.
Submitted by Well Thought Out at 2004-06-28 23:46:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I didn't want to review this article until I had actually gone to see Michael Moore's movie. I didn't want to give my "opinion" based on the talking heads in the media (liberals or conservatives). I hope I'm not too late to weigh in on this (this article was written on June 25th) and I hope I get some responses to my opinion. After watching the movie and carefully weighing both sides of the issue I've decided . . .
GLAM DADDDY IS A FUCKING FAGGOT
hehehe
Submitted by SpikeGoddess (user info) at 2004-06-28 23:32:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"No person takes the ethical path when there is money to be made."
That is a fucking scary thought. I really hope that's not true. It often seems that way though.
The reason it seems true is because if you substitute "person in the public eye" for "person" the statement is nearly 99% true. To remain in the public eye you must almost always sacrifice ethics for either money or fame or some other commodity. That's why neither of our Presidential candidates are moral ethical people. THe system weeds out moral ethical people.
Submitted by Omnivexed (user info) at 2004-06-28 23:21:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Forgot* Darth made me lose some of my focus. Bush is the one who called in the order for the
Bin Ladens to be taken away, Clark is the one to approve the order and at the time he didn't
have a reason not to approve it. That was one of the medias several reasons why the movie was
a lie by calling Clark a hero in Moore's film when in truth he was a villian. Clark did as he
was told, told by Bush who wanted to get the Bin Ladens to safety as soon as possible.
Submitted by Omnivexed (user info) at 2004-06-28 23:12:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm starting to see a pattern here, the people that support Bush don't know why they support him
They just do and get pissed off when people give them infinite reasons not to. On a personal note
Darth you fogot it was vexed not vex meaning I'm the one annoyed.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-06-28 22:30:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Glamdaddy, I"ll point out a very obvious lie portrayed in Moore's movie. He asserts that BUSH permitted the Bin Laden family to leave the US after the terrorism of 9/11. Richard Clark asserts in his own book that it was he who authorized them to leave. Very clear, succinct. A lie is evident. Will you now deliver?
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-28 22:20:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
**You've still only proved my point, picking on petty things instead of having an argument of your own, you don't even have an argument to back up with facts.**
My 'argument', for the hard of thinking who need things spelled out, is that you're an idiot who has blindly jumped onto the American-hating bandwagon, using made-up facts and half-assed generalisations to reinforce your predjudices.
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2004-06-28 20:45:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Here's a third thought:
http://www.ubersite.com/m/36981
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-06-28 19:48:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Here's another thought:
How come the conservatives keep saying "the liberal media" and the liberals keep saying "the conservative media"?
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-28 19:39:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Heres a thought:
if people had given a fraction of the scrutiny currently being put onto Fahrenheit 911, onto ...say, Bush's prewar 'inteligence', Michael Moore might not have had to make this film
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-28 19:38:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ok do i have this about right?
me: have you seen F911? that was some potent filmwork!
them: MM is a fat liar who lies. and furthermore he is fat.
me: yes MM is overweight, but the film, lets talk about that.
them: lies. all lies. 100% lies with no truth. and MM is fat. Did i mention the fat thing?
me: yes you did. But can you tell me where he lies?
them: no because I havent seen that fatasses film. i wont give that liar my money! i bet he is keeping all that money too!
me: I imagine actually that he will. thats what he does for a living. dont you think it would be more credable to claim he had lied if you had actually seen the film?
them: i dont need to see it to know he is a fat liar.
me: can you give me an example of a lie in the film?
them: he is so fat when he sits around the house he sits AROUND the house. ha!
me: just one. show me one lie and I will -
them: I wonder if MM can see his feet? fat lump of lying garbage! that footage of Bush in the school is computer generated!
me: ok now you are just being stupid. who would believe that?
them: Rush told us. Rush isnt fat. He tells the truth. he is a man of his word.
me: um... you still havent cited a single lie that Moore -
them: moore and fat sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G.... first comes -
me: sigh
them: fat! fatass! fatbag of fat!
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-28 19:21:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Actually, when I went on my OE across Europe a few years back I rarely found anyone that hated America, especially openly. Maybe they thought you guys were stupid, but hey, doesn't everyone? In my time there it gradually got worse, Bush pissed all over treaty's and ignored everyone when they told him he was making a fuck up. Most still don't hate you, just a strong dislike, can't blame them really. I'm not sure if there's a country other than Isreal that actually likes you guys.
Submitted by StinkyPants (user info) at 2004-06-28 19:06:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
DOWN WITH HITLER...i mean BUSH!
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-28 19:04:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Hey Travis :AKA Omnivexed (LOL travis)
You are a dumbass. I have been to France and they have OPENLY hated people from the USA for decades.
Hell the Movie "Crazy People" satirized the fact back in the 80's. PLUS I personally have experienced the open dissent from the frech towards Americans when I got spit on for asking how to get to a restroom in english, by a hotel employee no doubt . The french Hate the US and have for a long long time.
If you think otherwise I suggest you get a clue and open a book once in awhile or go back to watching cartoons
For fun I am picking apart your screen name, Travis.
**Omni***
- \Om"ni-\ [L. omnis all.] A combining form denoting all, every, everywhere;
***vex*** tr.v. vexed, vex·ing, vex·es
1. To annoy, as with petty importunities; bother.
SO- you are ALL-ANNOYING by your own designation. Strangly fitting for the fact you have voiced unsupported opinion in a debate that you claim to have superior knowledge.
You should have just stuck with Travis.
Submitted by chipolatte (user info) at 2004-06-28 18:47:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh, yeah, forgot.
Submitted by chipolatte (user info) at 2004-06-28 18:47:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't believe what they tell you. For instance, I read in Newsweek this morning how Moore criticizes Bush's father for having an account with this firm that makes weapons and has connections to Bin Laden. What he doesn't say is that one of the only U.S. weapons accounts that G.W. cancelled (11 Billion dollars, as well) was this same firm.
Moore is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T.
Submitted by FunniestGuyEver (user info) at 2004-06-28 18:32:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Michael Moore is a serial liar. He is also what appears to be the biggest hypocrite I've ever heard of. Not only is he not the "blue collar American" that he claims to be, he is actually one of the filthy rich elite that he oh so despises. On top of that, If you read interviews that he has done while on tour in Europe, he claims to hate our country and verbally pisses all over it. On top of everything, he LIES IN HIS MOVIES! Farenheit 9/11 was 98% bullshit 1% truth stretching and 1% pointless footage of Bush screwing up a catch phrase (used in an effor to distract the audience from the lack of pertinent material. Fuck this movie. Fuck Michael Moore. And fuck John Kerry for being a pussy. Quick connection map
George Bush-oil companies-carlyle group-Al Queda (This was Michael Moore's connection from Bush to Al queda)
Michael Moore-Miramax-Disney-carlyle group-Al Queda (oh no, does this mean that Michael Moore is just as guilty????) fuck michael moore. He can choke on all that food he eats.
moorelies.com
moorewatch.com
mooreexposed.com
bowlingfortruth.com
michaelmoorehatesamerica.com I've done MY part and watched the movie. Ive watched bowling, as well as roger & me. Hell, Ive even seen the entire series of the awful truth so DONT say im uninformed. Do YOUR part and visit a few websites and see who the real liar is.
In the end...........michael moore is a fat fucking liar!
Submitted by Omnivexed (user info) at 2004-06-28 17:45:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yeah, that was my post. I forgot to log in.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-06-28 17:41:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Um Omni have you been to France? They very openly hate Americans. And the reason they were against the war on terrorism is that they have a very high population of islamic people and feared public uprising.
You are an idiot for stating that Bush was responsible for bad relations between France and the USA
And with regard to this post and those involved in it; If you are basing your criticism of Bush on this movie and what the liberal media is telling you then you are an mindless idiot.
***********
France, like many other countries hates America because we allowed someone like Bush to become
president. Bush is responsible for severing long standing alliances and straining relationships
with many countries who were at least not openly hating us 4 years ago. I am listening to the
liberal media state facts that anyone with half a brain can realize make sense with all the
half truths the media which Bush controls feeds us every day. If you only listen to one side,
especially the one side that tends to lie then you are the mindless idiot.
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-28 17:26:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Omnivexed (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:42:31 (#)
Ranking: 0
You know, if it wasn't for France in the American revolution the United States wouldn't
exist. They've been our allies for years and just because they disagree with Bush for
very good reasons we treat them like scum. They had the balls to stand up and say Bush
doesn't know what he's doing and you'd crucify them for that. There's one of Bush's
accomplishments, destroying important alliances and making everyone who could want to
attack us.
**********************
Um Omni have you been to France? They very openly hate Americans. And the reason they were against the war on terrorism is that they have a very high population of islamic people and feared public uprising.
You are an idiot for stating that Bush was responsible for bad relations between France and the USA
And with regard to this post and those involved in it; If you are basing your criticism of Bush on this movie and what the liberal media is telling you then you are an mindless idiot.
Submitted by Lost_Gator_Fan (user info) at 2004-06-28 17:21:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Open-minded enough to go and see it. Smart enough not to take it too seriously.
LGF
Submitted by Uberfuck (user info) at 2004-06-28 17:14:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an 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fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat Bush is an idiot Moore is fat
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2004-06-28 16:16:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Ok. I dont usually weigh in on heated posts like this but here goes...
This documentary (yes it is a documentary, there are many facts in it and it is shot in the film making style of a documentary, if you want to dispute this go do research like us educated folk) really was needed and begins to scratch the surface to the Biases and LIES that Bush and the Republican party have spewed for the last four years.
Does this documentary have a liberal slant? No argument there. But what about all the news coverage that Bush and the conservative side get? This is merely an attempt to balance the media. Let's face it, the media has spewed the lies and distorted information the Bush administration preaches from day one. You want to talk about balanced? How about someone expressing disagreement with Bush on a regular basis in the daily news? You can use the "Michael Moore is biased" argument when the liberal, anti-Bush side of things gets daily media time. Oh, and of course when Bush stops lying.
Furthermore, if you are middle class or poorer, or a student, or anyone who has a net worth of less than $1,000,000 and you support Bush and the Republicans, you are just supporting people who want to "keep you in your place". The reason Michael Moore makes these movies is to try to show working people like us that the right wing is not there to help us. They try to sell us the rhetoric that we can all grow up to be millionaires so we should support them. But tell me - how many self-made millionaires do you know? How many millionaires live on your block?
Look at the cold hard facts and wake up America...Bush is taking away our rights, taking from the poor to give to the rich, and sending our young people off to die on foreign soil so he and his friends can make alot of money.
If you think I am just a ranting liberal, I suggest you read George Orwell's 1984, and then openmindedly try to draw similarities to the current state of our country. If you honestly try this with an open mind, it will scare the shit out of you.
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-28 13:33:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fahrenheit 9-11 Production Budget: $6 million
Fahrenheit 9-11 Marketing Costs: $10 million
Fahrenheit 9-11 First weekend gross: $21,958,00.00
Watching a bunch of right-wingers go into total meltdown and start screeching in rage like a tribe of monkeys: PRICELESS
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-28 13:32:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So the movie has been out a while now, long enough for some of you naysayers to find the lies and such in the film.
so does anyone have a beef with the film that goes beyond 'michael moore is fat'?
Id love to hear it.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-28 07:41:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sorry zoid, ignore my comment that refers to you.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-06-28 07:34:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Zoid,
"The point? Don't think France and Germany were taking some heroic moral stand. Fuck that. No country takes the ethical path when there is money to be made"
EXACTLY TRUE! Actually, that is a point shown in this movie really well, alond with showing how some companies who stand to make a lot of money on the war are convienently headed by Bush's friends and family. Interesting how one could take your quote and substitute "person" for "country" and it would still have a lot of truth to it.
"No person takes the ethical path when there is money to be made."
That is a fucking scary thought. I really hope that's not true. It often seems that way though.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-28 04:30:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You've still only proved my point, picking on petty things instead of having an argument of your own, you don't even have an argument to back up with facts.
Zoid, does that mean we can say America only invaded Iraq for oil? Sure that was one of the reasons, but the only one? America was breaking the rules, trying to bribe (using foriegn aid) their way to UN support, France, along with Russia and Germany checked them. They were in the right, America was in the wrong, now Iraq and American soldiers are paying for it, while Haliburton laughs all the way to the bank. You think Bush cares about soldiers lives? Give me a break.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-06-28 03:48:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
They've been our allies for years and just because they disagree with Bush for
very good reasons we treat them like scum. They had the balls to stand up and say Bush
doesn't know what he's doing and you'd crucify them for that.
Dude...France opposed it because they stood to lose a fuckload of money if we went into Iraq, which they did/are doing.
This was all nicely illustrated in "Behind the Invasion of Iraq", and before you go off spouting how this was a right-wingers book, this book was hugely, hugely critical of Bush as well.
The point? Don't think France and Germany were taking some heroic moral stand. Fuck that. No country takes the ethical path when there is money to be made
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-28 03:39:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
**Your so called demolition is based on picking on an approximate statistic**
You're the one who threw around a statistic like it proved something, and then when I asked you where you got your figure from, admitted that you made it up.
**unlike you it seems, I have a life outside the internet and don't have time to look up statistics for an online argument**
It's called backing up an argument with facts and sources, a technique I am unsurprised that you are unfamiliar with, relying as you do on imaginary notions and half-assed generalisations.
**and a spelling mistake which you inturn spelt wrong when correcting me.**
Look again Einstein. The reason I pointed out your error was that it was, ironically, part of a sentence about how ignorant Americans are. And last I checked 'in turn' was two words.
Submitted by Omnivexed (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:42:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You know, if it wasn't for France in the American revolution the United States wouldn't
exist. They've been our allies for years and just because they disagree with Bush for
very good reasons we treat them like scum. They had the balls to stand up and say Bush
doesn't know what he's doing and you'd crucify them for that. There's one of Bush's
accomplishments, destroying important alliances and making everyone who could want to
attack us.
Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:37:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Nah, Kerry just got circumcised, friggin jew.
I kicked his running mate in the chin.
Submitted by TheMidnight12AM (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:25:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Funny how France loved this ass-kissing film. Kerry must be bleeding from the gums.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:21:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It could be that your 'demolition' of my argument wasn't anything more than a pin prick, all you've done is made snide comments without any argument of your own. Your so called demolition is based on picking on an approximate statistic (unlike you it seems, I have a life outside the internet and don't have time to look up statistics for an online argument that have little affect on the argument itself, I assumed it was a pretty wide known fact that the election was close) and a spelling mistake which you inturn spelt wrong when correcting me.
Careful playing baseball or any of your other sports you guys play with yourselves incase you injure your fat mouths, you'll need them to keep making yourselves look stupider.
Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:14:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by BoogieFevuh (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:06:19 (#)
Ranking: 2
"After 9/11 you were all hyped up, war was a great idea then. Bush's popularity rating soared! Amazing how that works isn't it? Then things started going bad, and you jumped off the bandwagon as quick as you got on it."
Let me rephrase this: Bush first went to Afghanistan, where the terrorists were. His popularity soared! Then he went to avenge daddy in Iraq. Then people hated him. Any questions?
Of course Moore is one sided: it's hard to think of anything good that Bush actually has done.
For all you pro-Bush idiots out there: actually do some research. See what you can find out about him. Look into both sides, THEN decide. Don't let the media tell you what to think.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your words of wisdom. I think bush was the lesser of two evils, Bush or gore, my vote would still be Bush.
Good thing you make broad generalisations though, all pro-bush idiots must be ill informed, whill all liberal pussheads are all up to par on the issues.
Take your head out of your ass.
Submitted by BoogieFevuh (user info) at 2004-06-28 02:06:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"After 9/11 you were all hyped up, war was a great idea then. Bush's popularity rating soared! Amazing how that works isn't it? Then things started going bad, and you jumped off the bandwagon as quick as you got on it."
Let me rephrase this: Bush first went to Afghanistan, where the terrorists were. His popularity soared! Then he went to avenge daddy in Iraq. Then people hated him. Any questions?
Of course Moore is one sided: it's hard to think of anything good that Bush actually has done.
For all you pro-Bush idiots out there: actually do some research. See what you can find out about him. Look into both sides, THEN decide. Don't let the media tell you what to think.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-28 01:41:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
**I couldn't be bothered looking up the exact number**
Ignorant AND lazy. That's a hell of combination you got going there.
**it had no real importance as long as I was close**
When you use a number as a statistic to back up an argument, even a specious one, I'd say it was pretty important.
**Ohh a spelling mistake, that all you got? Considering you also spelt it wrong I think it's time for you to shut it.**
No, that's not all I've got, that was merely shrapnel from the demolition of your argument, but apparently your reading comprehension is on par with your fact-gathering ability. Just in case you were wondering how to spell 'ludicrous' (which is a word I'm sure you'll hear directed at you more than once in your sad life and since you won't take my word for it)
lu·di·crous: Laughable or hilarious because of obvious absurdity or incongruity.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ludicrous)
**American's aren't just ill informed about the war or 9/11, you are pretty much ill informed about everything.**
I see you haven't lost your knack for making wild and comically inaccurate generalisations. It's easy, aye, but it's no substitute for actual thought.
**If you're wondering what news we get, we get American, French (the best by far), German and a few other countries news here because nothing really happens in New Zealand.**
Somehow, I'm not at all surprised that you're such a big fan of the French new services. Better be careful out there on the rugby field, you don't want to go and break your surrendering hand.
Submitted by Bellator (user info) at 2004-06-28 01:35:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
To start with im not even American, i'm Australian, thats right the little country whos PM kisses George Bush's arse all day.
Michael Moore is a champ, Bowling for Columbine showed me just how screwed your counrty is about gun laws, and gun related killings. Yes i realise he is as biased as it comes, but his facts and figures cant be distorted.
Fahrenheit 911 will be interesting, its gunna give me anyother view on how unprofesional your military forces are. Everyone here knows it, hell ill probably have to work with them one day. Just someone answer me this, how can our SAS, who were behind enemy lines in Iraq from day 1 not kill a single civilian when the american force have killed more civilians than real enemy.
Now who is gunna have a personal attack at me, seems to be the go with this site.
Submitted by w00tm0nk33y (user info) at 2004-06-27 23:28:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Darth Faded, GlamDaddy didn't write a biased review; he gave us a "fair and balanced" report.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-06-27 23:25:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2004-06-27 19:40:45 (#)
Ranking: 2
Moore isn't brainwashing people against bush any more than our media is brainwashing us for bush. The beauty of this country is that you have access to any information and can use all of it to evaluate the world around you (ideally anyway). Your brain is the limit. You should at least see the movie before making arguments against it. Yes Moore is extremely opinionated, yes he uses a style akin to propaganda, but he makes valid points that we all need to consider. I loved the movie and I'm happy to see an extreme leftwing view make it to the mainstream like this.
==================================================================
i agree.
i haven't seen the movie yet, and i wasn't going to because Bowling for Columbine pissed me off a considerable amount. i think i'll give it a chance now.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-27 23:02:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"But when you are one of the only ones shouting against hundreds of voices, you have to shout a little louder. "
Lojope hits it again.
Submitted by munado at 2004-06-27 22:32:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I haven't seen the film, only previews and interviews.
Mr. Moore is trying to make money...
Mr. Bush dresses better, and shaves. I noticed that much.
I might watch the film on DVD later, but it ain't gonna sway me much (see i said much)!
I learned back in the 80's how the news media skews things. Mr. Moore made a movie skewing things... just a different format.
Great site by the way, just discovered it!
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-27 22:23:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
In History Moore will be remembered among the ranks of Macarthy, He is simply using the shocking visuals of war to fulfill his political agenda.
A prophet or a patriot he is NOT.
Submitted by settle <illgiveyouaneasyone.at.hotmail.co> at 2004-06-27 22:00:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sure, Michael Moore shifts the facts in a way to win over our opinions.
But they're still irrefutable facts and that's a shitload more than anyone else is giving us in politics today.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-06-27 20:57:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I waited to read this review until I saw the movie, which I did today.
I cried during the movie a lot. This is not hard to make me do, so that doesn't say a lot, but I cried just the same. I felt so much sadness and rage and downright disbelief at what I was seeing.
Moore made me cry on purpose. He chose images that were supposed to make people cry. He found all the worst photos and video clips he could. He relied a lot on shock value and emotional manipulation to get his point across.
It was propoganda at it's finest.
But being propoganda doesn't mean it's not true.
Granted, I do feel like he went a little over the top with this movie. It was a little too much. A few minutes of film too many on the woman crying about losing her son. One shot of the gore in Iraq too many. One clip of Bush making like a retard on camera too many.
But when you are one of the only ones shouting against hundreds of voices, you have to shout a little louder.
Submitted by lilbill87 (user info) at 2004-06-27 20:24:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 for you even watching the movie...michael moore should be shot...go bush woo!
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-27 20:13:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
88% of all people named Glam Daddy are liberal idiots that let manipulating film makers tell them what they should think about things.
Glam Daddy if you want to truly be informed about a particular topic go research it and know what you are talking about instead of letting a controversial film maker show you an hour and 45 mins of propaganda and you taking it as gospel.
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2004-06-27 19:40:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Moore isn't brainwashing people against bush any more than our media is brainwashing us for bush. The beauty of this country is that you have access to any information and can use all of it to evaluate the world around you (ideally anyway). Your brain is the limit. You should at least see the movie before making arguments against it. Yes Moore is extremely opinionated, yes he uses a style akin to propaganda, but he makes valid points that we all need to consider. I loved the movie and I'm happy to see an extreme leftwing view make it to the mainstream like this.
Submitted by Omnivexed (user info) at 2004-06-27 18:54:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Moore gave the facts that the average joe wasn't privy to and probably wouldn't of known
about any other way. It's not his fault those facts were biased against Bush. He wouldn't
of needed to lie to discredit Bush anyway, Bush did an excellent job at that himself. The
movie was great and I suggest everyone see it, especially anyone who thinks Bush is doing
a good job because you've obviously been hiding under a rock for four years and it's about
time you came out.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-27 18:18:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I couldn't be bothered looking up the exact number, it had no real importance as long as I was close, less than 50% of you voted for him but he got more than 40% of the vote, I was being generous and trying not to shame to many of your countrymen by saying they voted for Bush.
Ohh a spelling mistake, that all you got? Considering you also spelt it wrong I think it's time for you to shut it. Also, if you notice I called them ill informed not stupid, there's a difference. Any one that knew how stupid and retarded Bush was going to be and still voted for him would have to be either very rich or very dumb, since I believe a lot of the people that voted for him are neither that means they are ill informed. American's aren't just ill informed about the war or 9/11, you are pretty much ill informed about everything. American media is hugely bias to the right, so much that the less bias news, say CNN gets a nick name like Communist News Network even though it's right wing compared to most other countries news.
If you're wondering what news we get, we get American, French (the best by far), German and a few other countries news here because nothing really happens in New Zealand.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-27 17:29:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
**You're sentence makes better sense when one says "President Bush" in lieu of "Moore." Wow! Does it not bother you that the "leader of the free world" has spawned three books and countless articles by Slate magazine of nothing but his verbal screw-ups?**
If you are going to make snide comments about verbal screw-ups and the intelligence needed to use the English language properly, you might want to learn the difference between 'your' and 'you're' first so you don't embarrass yourself.
**Bush should have waited for the UN to finish doing its job.**
Yeah, because then the terrorists would have died of old age and there would have been no need for war.
**Let's elect Nelson Mandela as America's president.**
That'd be great, except for the fact that he's not a citizen of the U.S. and therefore ineligible. For someone who apparently prizes intelligence, you don't exhibit a lot of it.
Submitted by Naery (user info) at 2004-06-27 16:44:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Holy shit.
Scottish, look at this:
"On the other hand, Moore is a semi-illiterate, rambling buffoon, who will stoop to any level necessary to push his empty-headed agenda to empty-headed morons who lap it up like Jesus' jizz"
That's a quote from you. Now look at this:
On the other hand, President Bush is a semi-illiterate, rambling buffoon, who will stoop to any level necessary to push his empty-headed agenda to empty-headed morons who lap it up like Jesus' jizz
Isn't that crazy? You're sentence makes better sense when one says "President Bush" in lieu of "Moore." Wow! Does it not bother you that the "leader of the free world" has spawned three books and countless articles by Slate magazine of nothing but his verbal screw-ups? The man is a testament to the need for his "No Child Left Behind" agenda (as screwed up as that is), and further validates Moore's claim that the smartest american (or at least the one with the most power) is dumber than the dumbest Canuck. (ref: http://www.bushisms.com/index1a.html)
Lest you think that I am a great supporter of Moore, let me hasten to add that I despise anyone who intentionally presents a biased production as being fair and honest. Fair would have been to show a true sampling of the parents of soldiers. Those who still support the war and those who don't.
Lest you think that I am a great supporter of Bush, let me hasten to add that I despise anyone who acts as a vigilante. Bush should have waited for the UN to finish doing its job. The UN is an international forum in which the US has agreed to participate, and this unilateral, prejudiced attack on another nation is outrageous!
You want a good president? Someone who will help America, the world and her people's? Someone who knows the value of freedom and will do everything possible to maintain it? Let's elect Nelson Mandela as America's president. Let's get Swanee Hunt. Or George Mitchell, or Colman McCarthy. Hell, even Colman Barks would probably make a better president than Bush. "President Barks, what do you think of the current situation in Israel?" "I don't need a companion who is nasty sad and sour/the one who is like a grave dark depressing and bitter."
Here's my point: Moore is not one-sided. Bush is an illiterate idiot. The people who pursue power are those who need it least. Do research, find out who is most likely to look to the benefit of the American people and not the benefit of the American government.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-27 15:49:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
**Unless you are saying we are less informed than the American public, which would be a rather ludacris statement.**
If you're going to cast aspersions on the intelligence of a group of people as a whole, it might help to spell everything in said aspersion correctly, otherwise your assertions of non-intelligence become, what's the word, oh yeah, 'ludicrous.'
**In the end, 40% of you voted for Bush, how ill informed can you get?**
A) Where did you get 40% from? If you're going to use percentages and statistics, you need to source them. Anyone can pull a number out of their ass and claim it's a statistic. 87% of all people know that.
B) You said that 'Most Americans are uninformed.' Even using your numbers, 40% is not 'most'. It's not even half. Now 60% would be most, but according to you it's only 40%. So not only are you making absurdly general statements, you're making absurdly wrong general statements and making yourself look like an idiot. Which I don't imagine is all that hard.
C)A vote for Bush in an election that happened two years before the war does not constitute being 'un-informed.' Decisions were made based on the facts available AT THE TIME, i.e, two years before any of this happened. To say that the mere fact of voting for him constitutes being un-informed(even though its been shown that according to your own numbers, 'most Americans' were not uninformed) is a fallacy.
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-27 13:50:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
BossHog388-
If there was a way I could rate your last response I would Give you Multiple +2's but since this post is Dog Shit I am giving another -2.
One of the first things I said about Moore is that he does provide facts, but jades and perverts context through omission and you very clearly demonstrated that.
Kudos BossHog388, My hat is off to you .
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-27 07:34:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Not for long probably, 7 billion in debt, a retard for a president, the EU forming closer ties and nipping at your heels.
Still don't see your point, we have four million people, are we meant to be competing with America economically or militarily? Unless you are saying we are less informed than the American public, which would be a rather ludacris statement. Are you saying most American's aren't ill informed? Ever heard of Weapons of mass destruction? The links between Iraq and 9/11 that were not even brought up in other countries but forced down your ignorant throats. In the end, 40% of you voted for Bush, how ill informed can you get? Unless they're all just plain stupid.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-27 04:50:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
**I really hope so since most of America is ill informed.**
Yeah, it's too bad we can't all be as enlightened and sensitive as the shining paragons of political awareness that live in Australia's Canada.
Guess we'll just have to settle for being the most dominant economic, military and cultural power in the world.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-27 03:49:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2004-06-27 02:44:18 (#)
Ranking: -2
this crap will change no one's opinions unless they're on the fence or just ill informed. "
I really hope so since most of America is ill informed.
Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2004-06-27 02:44:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
this crap will change no one's opinions unless they're on the fence or just ill informed.
Submitted by BossHog388 (user info) at 2004-06-27 02:36:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
*****************************************************************
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-25 19:50:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
random joe
moore doesnt take anythign out of context. if you can cite one single example i will bow down before you.
moore sticks to the facts on this one knowing he will be under the microscope.
*****************************************************************
I know you want this example to come from 9/11, but if he has done it once, why not again?
Cited directly from http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html:
2. NRA and the Reaction To Tragedy. A major theme in Bowling is that NRA is callous toward slayings. In order to make this theme fit the facts, however, Bowling repeatedly distorts the evidence.
A. Columbine Shooting/Denver NRA Meeting. Bowling portrays this with the following sequence:
Weeping children outside Columbine;
Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";
Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"
Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"
The portrayal is one of an arrogant protest in response to the deaths -- or, as one reviewer put it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy." The portrayal is in fact false.
Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.
Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:
In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.
All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.
Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.
The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.
"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.
Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting.
Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.
Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison, with links to the original transcript.
Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.
Etc. Etc... I suggest you check out the link if you are still ignorant enough to think that moore takes nothing out of context
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-27 01:39:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2004-06-26 04:22:47 (#)
Ranking: 2
Here's to you for maintaining a fairly even rating and for a great, objective review.
***************
Objective my ass....
Glam Daddy is a cookie cutter liberal Democrat, as is anyone else that refers to that fucker, Moore, as a patriot.
Submitted by Poorbusker (user info) at 2004-06-27 01:00:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
First listen to NPR then listen to Rush Limbaugh and add a hint of Fox News to it then BAM! The truth! Most Americans are just too damn lazy to follow this simple procedure. Most are much happier getting news from bias, untruthful news sources. So it's no wonder Fahrenheit 911 is going to make number 1 in box office this week, America loves to be lied too. And shit...since trashing the US is the cool new thing to do, this film will make even more money. Moore is a traitor to the country that gave him everything he has today. Let's go see if Michael will sell off his shit and move back to Flint to live with the poor people he exploits in his films. Let's see Moore try to make a movie like the in Saddam controlled Iraq. He wouldn't...because he would be dead.
THE TROOPS SHOWN IN THIS MOVIE SHOWN GETTING BRUTIALY KILLED AND THEIR DEAD BODIES HAD MORE HONOR AND RESPECT THEN MICHAEL MOORE WILL EVER WISH TO HAVE.
IT'S TRASH
Submitted by Falco (user info) at 2004-06-27 00:25:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BadASCII (user info) at 2004-06-27 00:19:58 (#)
Ranking: 0
Chalaco <no.at.nope.com>
That email address is great... It's what many users do when queried for their email address. Another one is fuck.at.off.com, or nobody.at.nowhere.com.
If anyone else has done this, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
************
1.at.2.com is what i use
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2004-06-27 00:24:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i haven't seen his other movies but this i would see
Submitted by BadASCII (user info) at 2004-06-27 00:19:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Chalaco <no.at.nope.com>
That email address is great... It's what many users do when queried for their email address. Another one is fuck.at.off.com, or nobody.at.nowhere.com.
If anyone else has done this, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-06-26 20:26:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It's only as bias as mainstream media.
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2004-06-26 17:22:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This was a well written review, and I haven't seen the film in question, so I can't give it a negative rating.
On the other hand, Moore is a semi-illiterate, rambling buffoon, who will stoop to any level necessary to push his empty-headed agenda to empty-headed morons who lap it up like Jesus' jizz. So I can't give it a positive rating.
Submitted by Chalaco <no.at.nope.com> at 2004-06-26 16:30:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'd like to give a special thank you to Mr. Michael Moore for letting me know I don't have to think for myself anymore - he can do it for me! I want this guy dead.
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2004-06-26 16:08:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wouldn't it be great if conservatives put Bush, Cheney and the rest of the gang under as much scrutiny as they do Moore? You know, focus on the actually people with power, the ones who are making decisions that effect the entire planet, why don't you try paying a little fucking attention, instead of wasting all your time bitching about celebrities, turn off American Idol and pay attention. You can distrust the left all you want, its good that you do, keeps them it check, but the way you blindly follow the right is scary, your not bothered by religion creeping its way into the Whitehouse? The middle class disappearing? Unending war? America becoming more and more isolated and because of that weak? None of this bothers you but Moore dose? Sweet menstruating Christ get your priorities together. And stop wasting time making entire websites about Moore, its starting to boarder on creepy, and the more that you fear him the bigger he gets.
Submitted by Worm (user info) at 2004-06-26 16:05:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.ubersite.com/m/36446
Submitted by whataefag (user info) at 2004-06-26 15:33:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
so you don't like Michael Moore? I just saw the movie and this review is right on track. You idiots don't need to -2 this just because you don't like Michael Moore. See the movie, then comment. It was more objective than his previous films, but still had some antics in it. I enjoyed it tremendously and think that this review gives it due justice. Well written; well done.
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2004-06-26 15:28:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
also, i believe i just heard this in passing, but weren't some documents revealed the other day that tied saddam to bin laden? like, they had met for big meetings a couple times, a couple of bin laden's higher-ups fled to saddams protection and hospital care, and saddam considered bin laden something of a useful informant?
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2004-06-26 15:21:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Micheal Moore is a facist.
From http://www.mooreexposed.com :
Bush family - Bin Laden family ties. Whoopee. The bin Ladens happen to be one enormous clan. When the founder died in 1988, he left no fewer than 54 children (some say 53 -- heck, he himself may not have kept count.). Add in grandkids, in-laws, and cousins, and it must make for a heck of a big family reunion.
The founder emigrated to Saudi Arabia early in the 20th century, founded the construction firm, was hired to rebuild Mecca, and got a lock on all religious construction in a very religious country. Most of the family is western-leaning, and send their children to the U.S. for an education. Osama went in for fanaticism, was disowned by the family, and fled the country in 1992 after the Saudis ordered him arrested. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/family.html
The Carlyle Group. Yep, it's one big business, reportedly worth over three billion, lots projects in the Mideast. Both Bushes were tied in with Carlyle pretty thoroughly, and Bush, Sr. in retirement would travel to Saudi Arabia to hunt up more contracts. The bin Laden family invested two million in a $1.3 billion fund run by it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C583869%2C00.html
The airplane. About two dozen bin Laden kids were attending school in the U.S. on 9/11. They started calling the Saudi embassy, in fear they were about to be lynched (a not unreasonable fear -- a few days later a Sikh was murdered, simply because he wore a turban.) The ambassador intervened (with White House, State, or FBI -- accounts vary. They "were driven or flown under FBI supervision" to a location in the US. As CBS reported, then "they left the country on a private charter plane when airports reopened three days after the attacks." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/30/archive/main313048.shtml
Submitted by Nator (user info) at 2004-06-26 15:16:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Moore is very, very annoying. I'd hump Noam Chomsky's leg before Moore's everyday.
Submitted by yellowcar08 (user info) at 2004-06-26 14:59:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Michael Moore has been described as a "serial liar" on many occasions, by numerous people.
I watched his latest "documentary" and all I have to say is that I would just LOVE to see the original film- unedited. This movie made hardly any points, it lead up to a point, but then before we actually heard it, Moore throws in a shot of George Bush doing something "silly". Actually, I found the film to be very boring, I came out more impressed with our soldiers than anything. How can Moore go from mocking our troops to supporting them in a matter of minutes? The film was contradictory and its doubtful that it will make a dent in the election.
I just can't wait until Michael Wilson's film "Michael Moore Hates America" is released.
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2004-06-26 04:22:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Here's to you for maintaining a fairly even rating and for a great, objective review.
Submitted by Disektor (user info) at 2004-06-26 03:34:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
When I wrote my review I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. We all wanted to see someone brought to justice over the attacks, I'm not quite sure how you'd have planned on that by not going to war. People don't often turn themselves in.
Bush's popularity rating was 80% or so after 9/11 and most people were more than happy to see him send troops into Afghanistan to bring about some vigilante style justice.
Kerry voted in favor of the war, and now that things are going downhill it is all to convenient for him to try and get out of what he supported in the first place. Kerry won't end the war and he won't bring all our troops back home. He can't, it'd be political suicide.
I don't much care for politics, I'm just sick of everyone calling Bush an evil tyrant for doing something the majority of the American population wanted.
And for the record I don't care if you never posted that you were for the war. I doubt throughout the whole ordeal you were saying "I don't want a war, I think we should leave the terrorists alone. Aside from killing 3000 people in a suicide attack they haven't done anything else to us!"
We all had periods of anger when we just wanted to see people die for what they had done. Aren't emotions a great thing?
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-06-26 02:30:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The reviews about played out like I thought they would when I saw the title and the author. Glad to see you've embraced 'spell check.'
As for the movie itself, I've not seen it, nor do I plan to. Not because of any grand gesture of political solidarity, but for the same reason I don't go see chick flicks, or teen high school comedies(other then 'The Breakfast Club')or anything with Pauly Shore. Because I have no real interest in it and there are other movies I'd rather see.
As for Moore himself, Michael Moore is the Rush Limbaugh of the left.
He's a big fat goofy bastard that runs around doing and saying outlandish things and the other side of the political spectrum points and cackles with glee, as if somehow one clown were capable of discrediting a particular brand of politcal philosophy by himself.
Although conservatives do kind of owe him for being such a big supporter of Nader. Hopefully he'll do it again.
Submitted by Flak (user info) at 2004-06-26 00:04:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
die
Submitted by atz (user info) at 2004-06-26 00:03:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://debbieschlussel.com/
I though that review was better.
Submitted by DarthAwesome (user info) at 2004-06-25 21:50:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Gonna see it this weekend hopefully.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-06-25 20:58:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Another point - Moore likes to call Bush a "war profiteer". Just how much money is Moore making off this war? Think he's giving it to charity? Only if Krispy Kreme has a 501(c)3
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-06-25 20:56:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
can't wait to see it
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-06-25 20:55:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Michael Moore is a Mensch. A patriot in the truest sense of the word.
This statement alone warrants more -2s than I will live to dish out.
If Michael Moore is a "patriot", why does he admit he does not like America and believe that "the dumbest person here (England) is smarter than the smartest American."
You, Glam , are a useless person.
Submitted by xXautumnwalkerXx (user info) at 2004-06-25 20:51:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Michael Moore is a man who likes to make false truths his own so-called "truth". Everyone is saying how Bush is so bad, and bad Bush this, bad Bush that. Let me tell you, I am a Bush supporter, now, not 100%, I've got my own questions, but I trust the man more than Michael Moore or John Kerry. Have we all forgotten the Democratic Primary? Where the democratic electee hopefuls were all slamming EACH OTHER?!? What kind of character does that take? Power is a horrible, horrible thing. And it doesn't take much to see that there are all kinds of things wrong with our country. However, I am one who is happy to be able to post things like this, and not have my children killed or myself hurt over it. It's called Freedom, and it allows us to be able to do the things on here we do. I'm not saying that this war in Iraq was for freedom, or justifying it. However, I was, was, supportive of the war, and if I was not a single mother, I would have joined the military and gone over to fight. I still support the men who fight overseas, and I support all the people who have died in past wars to protect me. I believe that everything happs for a reason. You don't like our government? Electing another fuck-face who only cares ABOUT HIMSELF, is not going to solve it. Think about it. Three Evils - No Good Answers.
I, for one, think that Michael Moore, using 9-11 to fufill his own personal agenda, is one of the most vile acts anyone, including Saddam himself, could have done.
Fuck. And that person for suggesting that Michael Moore actually DONATES his PROFIT to CHARITY?
HAHAHAHAHAH!! God, you must have been that "smartest American".
Submitted by Slapshot99 (user info) at 2004-06-25 20:29:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"and howard stern kicks ass.".........Stern is a fucking dipshit. All he does now is use his post- mortem celeb status to get mindless life-support-systems-for-vagina's to show their new and improved tit's to all his mono-sylabic counterparts. Sometimes freedom of speech shouldn't be given out so freely
Submitted by jcricket (user info) at 2004-06-25 20:16:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
kerry sure as hell isn't going to make everything better, but anyone is better than bush. we've got a long fucking way to go before things start to turn around.
whether you like moore or you hate moore, this movie is actually making some people think and to actually take their heads out of their asses and start to ask questions.
government is inherently corrupt. what everyone should know, is that you should always question the ones that are in charge.
always.
and howard stern kicks ass.
to say that his current troubles are not directly caused by religious nutcases similar to the likes of resident bush is pure insanity.
we need someone from the far right to come on here and talk. i need to check out that moorehatesamerica site though.
question everything.
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-25 19:50:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
random joe
moore doesnt take anythign out of context. if you can cite one single example i will bow down before you.
moore sticks to the facts on this one knowing he will be under the microscope.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-06-25 19:14:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
How can you trust a man who said that the whole purpose to this movie was to get George Bush out of office? He will go to any length to do so, such as telling blatent lies and edit audio and video to reverse meanings, taking quotes and such out of context.
And notice that every president isn't stoic as you seem to belive should be. Remember Clinton comming out of a funeral laughing and when the cameras came on him he started a fake cry? That was rich.
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-25 18:19:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
DarthFaded -
"So let me ask this Is he helping to remedy the situation or is he simply discrediting a President for the sake of Politics?"
*** he is absolutlely doing something to help. he is making this movie. which brings certain things ot the table that maybe they did not know.
"Moore preaches under a guise that the current administration is in some way degrading the American People and making a mockery of Liberty, yet supports a candidate that shares political views with Jane Fonda."
**** lol. are you serious? where di you get that gem? drudge report? Ill just ignore that comment for now out of a lack of abillity to take it seriously.
"I am not in anyway saying that Moore doesn't make any valid points, but a Patriot? Please."
**** yes patriot. absofuckinglutly.
pa·tri·ot ( P ) (ptr-t, -t) n.
One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.
maybe not a patriot in Bushs sense of the word which seems to mean blind devotion to your government regardless of any flaws.
michael moore is a patriot BECAUSE he is critisizing the government who is ruining the country he loves.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-06-25 18:18:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Disektor - in the words of DICK Chaney to Leahy, "go fuck yourself"
I was against this war from the beginning. Go ahead, hunt through Fetish's search and just see if you can find one single incident where I said anything about being in favor of this horrible atrocity that Bush is pretending is a war on terror.
now step off until you get some facts
Submitted by glam_daddy (user info) at 2004-06-25 18:10:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Disektor
"I'm glad nearly 30 months later you realized what dumbasses you ...blah blah blah..."
wrong I like many others who protested the war, thought the war was wrong from day 1.
nice try though.
Submitted by Disektor (user info) at 2004-06-25 17:26:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Bitch and moan is all you people do.
Fuck off.
After 9/11 you were all hyped up, war was a great idea then. Bush's popularity rating soared! Amazing how that works isn't it? Then things started going bad, and you jumped off the bandwagon as quick as you got on it.
Fact is you people don't know what the hell you want, and you'll pretty much buy into anything if a tragedy occurs.
I'm glad nearly 30 months later you realized what dumbasses you were and are trying oh so hard to rectify the situation by voting for Kerry. I'm sure he will be the perfect president.
Seems to me you are all expecting miracles. I doubt Kerry will be able to make the country any better than Bush could, of course with all those empty promises he is filling your head with I'm sure you are inclined to believe every word he says. Good luck with that.
I'm also sick of hearing you people whine about what you would have done, or how you have the solution to everything. None of us know jack shit about whats going on nor do any of us have the slightest clue on how to fix the problems that are present right now in the USA. Please continue going on about how you know everything though, I like to print out the articles and wipe my ass with them after I'm done taking a shit.
Submitted by DarthFaded (user info) at 2004-06-25 17:19:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
glam_daddy-
I am not by any means justifying anything that has happened during the Bush administration, in fact I have said many times in other posts that the basis of the War in Iraq was questionable.
I am not doubting that he is only presenting truths in his movies, I can't criticize it since I haven't seen it yet, but his methods are rather underhanded. It is easy to jade facts by presenting information without proper context.
Frankly I am tired of political discussions (yet I always seem to get involved in them)I have generalized and simplified my beliefs.
Republican or Dem