Modern American Fascist (4849 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 0.41 on 323 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by The Toddfather <thetoddfather.at.hotmail.com> (View user info) at 2004-07-10 00:24:39 EDT
I have read a lot of posts by confused Americans wondering why people are linking their nation to fascism. Here is a brief explanation.
Dictionary.com defines fascism as:
Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
Presently in the US of A, all three branches of your federal government are dominated by the extreme right. The extreme left is Communism, the extreme right is Fascism. The American Democrats sit somewhere in the middle. Canada has been historically left of center. Other nations like Denmark offer Cradle to Grave medical and such.
Let's begin with Communism. Communism is the most misunderstood of all political beliefs. There has never been a Communist state. That's right. Never been a Communist state. There have been attempts, but it has never actually been put to the test. I won't go into details about what it is in this post, but essentially, everyone lives equally. Communist author Carl Marx said it could never be successful as long as there was one single capitalist system in existence because greed would topple it.
Fascism, on the other hand, has been successfully implemented, and on more than one occasion. Key ingredients of fascism are things like:
1) The nation, its leader, and its symbols (Flag) are sacred. It is important that the common people place these things up near God, or even above God. This kind of loyalty is crucial to its success, or people will begin to question the motives of their leader and nation.
2) A high degree of censorship is always present.
3) A high degree of propaganda is fed to the population.
4) A highly centralized government.
5) Fascist usually feel they, their race, or their nation is superior to everyone else. Generally, this ties in with the propaganda and censorship. You see, if you censor the realities of Islam, and force consumption of propaganda on the people, they will become brainwashed.
All of these things are present today in America.
1) Few nations on Earth do more "hero building", which is the attempt to create role models that will mold the greater population into thinking along the right path, or emphasis on symbols than America. It is quite scary when you look at it. Off the top of my head, look at film titles like: Gods and Generals which clearly places American Civil War Generals next to God. Most of their war propaganda comes out of big budget films and the media. Their whole system is geared around convincing the people that God actually supports and likes America better than the other nations on Earth. This, of course, is very dangerous because people can be easily swayed to think that their nation would never do anything "ungodly".
2) Censorship is at an all time high in America as far as I'm concerned. If it wasn't for the lack of control over the internet, Americans would have very little clue about how the world feels about them right now. I'm sure we're all aware of Michael Moore's trouble getting his film out, which had to be bailed out by a Canadian firm. Censorship is especially effective when combined with propaganda and lies. Whole networks in America, the largest and most profitable, are nothing more than Republican campaigners. Fox is the most renown for this. Fox News is an absolutely disgusting piece of work, as is CNN. For most of the world, CNN and Fox are just another National Enquirer. My personal recommendation is the BBC website for fairly balanced journalism.
3) As mentioned above, propaganda has become an art-form in the US. They have perfected it and packaged it for all to consume. The ironic thing was how many Americans were angry because Saddam Hussein practiced these barbaric tactics on his people. Utilizing the media for the purposes of keeping the population ignorant is very effective if you want to, say, send them off to a bullshit war. Now, not all of this is controlled by government. The beauty of it is that it doesn't have to be. The richest members of America are also the ones holding the control of major networks. Wealth and power corrupts as we all know.
4) As already mentioned, Bush can pretty much hammer anything he wants through the legislature right now. He owns all three branches of the American government.
So, an effective way of censoring and such is to buy up all the competition, which has happened over the last two or three decades. Very few voices get heard from the center these days, and even if they did get into power, the other branches are dominated by the right.
5) Americans need a good dose of Humble Pie. They think their nation can do no wrong. Anything not-American is wrong. Anyone who opposes their tampering with the Earth can fuck off... I am, of course, generalizing big time. There are many great Americans who cut through the shit and see truth, and that's not easy when living in that country I'm sure. American's like Michael Moore are trying to see his nation be the best it can be for everyone, not just the rich. As far as I'm concerned, he has risked his life bringing out Fahrenheit 911, and I wouldn't be shocked in the least if he isn't assassinated. Many of my personal heroes come out of America. Great human beings like Woodie Guthrie, Steve Earle and Bob Dylan. People who stand up for what was decent and right in this god-awful world of ours.
I rather liked Al Franken's description of the difference between the way a democrat looks at his country and a Republican. I am summarizing here, but the gist was that a Republican looks at his country like a six year old child looks at their mother. Everything it does is good, and no one can challenge it at all. Mommy is great! No one can tell me different. A democrat on the other hand views his nation much like a grown up adult, he loves it very much, even with the blemishes. However, he wants to help Mom be the best person she can be. They see the good and the flaws for what they are, not some delusion of grandeur.
Here is a quote to think about in closing: "America, the best democracy money can buy."
User Reviews
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-07-29 14:24:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
damn how did I miss this?
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-19 13:06:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My last words on this post,
To the people who think that Canadians hide behind the American military:
When has Canada ever needed your help? We've never been invaded or attacked by another nation, except America. That was a long time ago.
We have not needed a large army since World War II. Although we had some highlights like the Arrow in the 50s. A fighter-interceptor that rivalled anything the world could offer at the time. Built by a nation of fewer than 30 Million.
Our contribution to WWI was enormously successful. Anyone that knows our part in this war knows we were given most of the tough jobs because we did the impossible.
We had a huge role in WWII, and were given Juno Beach in the Normandy invasion because we had done so well.
Few Americans know that we had a major role in your Civil War as well. Between 40 and 60,000 Canadians helped end slavery in the US, which was a substantial contribution for a nation like Canada. Our population was miniscule compared to yours.
In later years Canada invented peacekeeping. We have remained a peacekeeping nation ever since.
Submitted by Vomitoxin_AKA_Cyst_Master (user info) at 2004-07-16 16:59:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I totally agree. Same thing happened here http://www.ubersite.com/m/37531 and http://www.ubersite.com/m/38008
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2004-07-16 16:26:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by smokymtcsw (user info) at 2004-07-16 15:40:09 (#)
Ranking: 0
Bizdorph
If you think Canada is a vast melting pot as well you are an idiot. I know what homogenous means, and I was pointing out that despite having a ton of people who are all the same (which often means lower crime and less issues of inequality based on race which can lead to tensions and depress an economy) which makes you like Scandanavia sociologically, you are not doing as well economically. That is because you suck. With your resources, if you had a limited government you would be doing incredibly. Just look at the economic difference in Alberta since the conservatives took over. It has outperformed every other province. I think it is awful that I am having to debate Canadian politics with you but there you go.
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Okay. I said that teh united states was the melting pot. I said Canada was not, therefore your first argument is null and void. One of the things Canada is proud of is its multicultural society: MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLES IN ONE COUNTRY. Therefore we don't have "a ton of people who are all the same".
While I agree that our economy is a big pile of steamy dog shit, I just don't believe a conservative government would improve that. TO explain all my reasons would be tedious and not worth the time, so I'll just say this: let's agree to disagree, and leave this where it is for now, because we WON'T have a conservative government for at least four years, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Submitted by smokymtcsw (user info) at 2004-07-16 15:40:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Bizdorph
If you think Canada is a vast melting pot as well you are an idiot. I know what homogenous means, and I was pointing out that despite having a ton of people who are all the same (which often means lower crime and less issues of inequality based on race which can lead to tensions and depress an economy) which makes you like Scandanavia sociologically, you are not doing as well economically. That is because you suck. With your resources, if you had a limited government you would be doing incredibly. Just look at the economic difference in Alberta since the conservatives took over. It has outperformed every other province. I think it is awful that I am having to debate Canadian politics with you but there you go.
Submitted by UniBrowZIT (user info) at 2004-07-16 12:27:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Bush is Stan... that's right.. Stan
Submitted by ralphmacchio (user info) at 2004-07-16 08:03:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
not a bad article, but i'm giving you a -2 because for fuck's sake, if you're going to argue something at least get the names right. it's KARL MARX, with a K, not a C. way to make yourself look like a complete idiot.
Submitted by tech-junkie (user info) at 2004-07-15 22:20:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You uneducated tool.
The Republican system of government is NOT highly centralized. It emphasizes more power to the states with a limited federal government. Re-take your American Government class in high school.
President Bush does NOT own all three branches of government. He owns one, the Executive Branch. The other two have plentily nay-sayed some of his bills, most notably being the gay marriage ban. That system of checks and balances is what keeps the president from doing what you blantantly and wantonly are accusing him of.
As far as your bullshit censorship argument, I have one word for you, INTERNET!!! That single entity alone is enough for us to say that we live in the most liberal environment in our nation's history with regards to censorship.
You are the result of morons breeding with morons.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2004-07-15 21:42:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Meant to say "evolution". Sorry.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2004-07-15 21:41:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by smokymtcsw (user info) at 2004-07-15 00:37:33 (#)
Ranking: -2
Canada also sucks, and not just because of Quebec, but because despite the massive national resources, no need for defense spending (you are welcome) and homogenous population, you have health care that is worse than ours, an economy that is completely dependent on us and a socially progressive joke of a government that is attempting to ape Scandanavia. Onward towards 30 hour work weeks, legal drugs, 80 percent taxes, and loving homosexuality! Shed this Christian foundation! Lets get moving Canada! Yuck. I wish we could annex Alberta and that is all. As someone who has visited many parts of your beautiful country I must say, America never took you over because we did not need to, but as you screw yourself and your economy with your leftist garbage, I only hope you produce a Milan Kundera or similar great writer, maybe a novel called the Nova Scotia Archipelago as the communist leftists censor and brainwash the people.
_____________________________________________________________________
How is America any less dependent on us? Or the rest of the world for that matter? If every country currently in trade with the United States boycotted trade agreements solely with that country, you'd be ruined, while everyone else would prosper because of interdependence. THe only thing you have going is that your dollar is the economic Plimsall line on the world market, and because the EU now dominates the world market almost as muchas America does, you're becoming obsolete.
Also, homogeneous means all the same. Ours is HETEROgeneous, meaning multi-cultural in this sense. Considering the United States has earned the monicker "The Great Melting Pot", I don't think you're in a position to judge our immigration policies.
And about "aping" Scandinavia: I don't know about you, but I'd rather pay more taxes for a better government and social infrastructure than get huge tax cuts and suffer in the long run, like America will with another Republican leader.
ANd what's so bad abut shedding a religion so neotonous that it still refuses to admit that
revolution has been proven?
Jesus. And you wonder why the world hates you...look at the diahrrea you sprayed all over this reply thread!
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2004-07-15 21:32:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
And another thing. If you don't believe in cencorship you should have watched the news when the "blacklisting frenzy" was going on in the two years following (ugh...cliché alert) 9/11. Hundreds of Hollywood stars and music artists were blacklisted and banned from some hardcore right-wing stations simply fo expressing their views on the situation.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2004-07-15 21:29:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You are my new god, solely because you pointed out what I've been trying to prove to everyone I know for years: there never has been a true communism, and the reason Americans (and the world) are still afraid of it is because it was misrepresented by every country that tried to implement it.
So relieving.
Submitted by smokymtcsw (user info) at 2004-07-15 21:16:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I waited to see your response to me. You said my arguments were beneath you. I would say nice dodge, but it was not nice, it was cowardice I suppose I should have expected. Given that judiciary is my strongest area (but not by far) I would suggest you try www.oyez.com to learn more about the supreme court. You can also probably through your school get access to lexis.com Lexis will give you access to law review articles and those might be useful in attempting to gain an understanding in that area.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 19:01:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Here's one.
http://partners.is.asu.edu/~george/vacancy/justices.html
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 18:45:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Actually, the Supreme Court slip up was a result of my previous post.
Think of it as really rushed @ work posts. Like this one.
As soon as I hit post, I swear there was an audible "Ahhhh", The US Supreme Court judges are appointed too.
I responded quickly so I didn't give someone like domenad fuel. My response WAS the foot in my mouth. Another stupid rushed post. I already knew the answer. I already knew I screwed up. So I posted another screw up. "Duh, are they appointed?"
Just the other day I was reading about it when digging for info on whether Bush was trying to get abortion banned.
However, the judiciary is my weakest area. That is true. Does anyone know if there is a link to a site that accurately reveals a list of who made SC appointments?
And my last post was pretty poorly written too. It was supposed to be a jokingly arrogant comment, but it turned out to just look arrogant.
Gnome, I'll go to my room now.
And the moral of the story is, don't post when you're in shit at work for wasting time.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 17:54:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm going to get in shit at work.... THIS TIME I MUST GO...
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 17:53:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
domenad,
Hey, you have your opinion; I have mine.
I'm pretty well informed on the world I live in. And when placed next to a typical American like yourself, I'd run circles around you.
See? I too can stereotype...
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 17:50:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Matthew Good on US and British deceit over the invasion of Iraq..
http://www.audioblogger.com/media/28508/74927.mp3
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-15 17:47:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
domenad - see, i can make a weak, substanceless, stereotypical arguement too.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-15 17:46:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
domenad - you're just a hoser, eh. why don't you just, like, take off eh.
but if you do come back, wanna pick up some beer?
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-07-15 17:41:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"Are Supreme Court justices appointed in the US? The judiciary is my weakest area in the US, by far."
My friend, re-read the drivel you wrote. Your weakest area is indistinguishable from the others - you're eqally vapid in every area of American society. Typical of a Canadian, mind you, who can just sit behind the US and not have to pick up a gun to defend himself becase the US is there to cover you. The very thought of you scum makes me retch up liver bile.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 16:36:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Here is a question:
Although I admit it is somewhat loaded.
Should laws on monopolies and such be consistent throughout all industries? Or can we make a case for different levels of control over something like a computer component versus a form of cultural or artistic expression?
In other words, do you feel we should place knowledge and culture into the same, Darwinian-type, "only the strong survive" atmosphere we do other products? When dealing with culture and information, does "stronger" necessarily result in "better"?
I have to get some work done, be back later.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-15 16:28:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 15:17:00 (#)
Ranking: 0
Breathe Toddfather, breathe....
disAbled,
I love nitpickers. They can take someone's ideas and down them because of something as trivial as an upper-case or ......
....THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT!
Hey, look, I capitalized all those letters, you should post a response dismissing this one because that's poor usage of the English language.
BAD TODDFATHER!!
_________________________
+2 for this arguement alone.
AMEN!!
now go to your room Tad.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 16:15:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm 99.9999% sure they are. I just don't want to stick my foot in my mouth.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 16:10:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Are Supreme Court justices appointed in the US? The judiciary is my weakest area in the US, by far.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 16:07:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In the end, for me, both extremes are dangerous. A government to large will oppress the people. Abuse its power. A government too small will only allow others to exploit the system and oppress the people.
This shoots some holes in my argument about America. You see, on one hand I'm trying to say the American government it too powerful. To large if you will. But my real issue is with the government's willingness to allow other powers to abuse their power. Which sounds more like small government. I think in this case it boils down to leaving your friends alone (ie: the huge Corporations), and creating as large a government as possible to impose your will on your enemies.
Ironically, the American system was built to avoid this very thing. Checks and balances, baby. Smart.
The problem is, you've created a system where it is very difficult for a President to impose his will on the people, but the reins were effectively handed over to big business. Non-elected. Un-accountable men in suits.
So, although my article doesn't touch it, that is where my real anger comes from. The complete lack of trust in government was countered by a complete faith in the free market.
So, in my opinion, you need a government big enough to prevent others from fucking with the citizens, and small enough to not give one man total control. That is why a nation's constitution is so crutial. However, even that can be seen as a hand-off, because it usually hands power over to the judges. This is more dangerous in Canada, because our judges are appointed.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-15 15:42:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I can't remember who said it, it might have been Lewis Black.
"Liberals are a group of no ideas, and Conservatives are a group of bad ideas! I can just see Congress, a Conservative stands up and says "Hey, I have a really bad idea!" and then a Liberal stands up and says "I have a way to make it even shittier!"
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 15:17:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Breathe Toddfather, breathe....
disAbled,
I love nitpickers. They can take someone's ideas and down them because of something as trivial as an upper-case or lower-case letter. Do you know how stupid that is?
As far as your quotes go. Good on you! Nice work. Maybe you should re-read the line I just posted,
"Existing and fallen Communist states were, in fact, trying to become a Communist state."
This sums up the quotes you refer to. You see, as I already said, most "C"ommunist intellects knew it couldn't survive next to capitalist states. It is pretty obvious why. What's your point?
So, the "C"ommunist movement had to stop capitalism in order to survive. Once that occurred, the plan was to maintain a government as long as was necessary to create equality among classes and such, then disband it.
So, all your quotes prove is that the "C"ommunists were willing to engage in whatever was necessary to bring "C"ommunism to the world. Just as your nation is trying to bring Capitalism and Democracy to the world. That doesn't mean their government was "C"ommunist. It wasn't. Means to an end. That's all.
And just so we're all on the same page here. I, for one, don't think it was a realistic movement. I am not a "C"ommunist. I believe human beings are too flawed to ever exist under any form of equality. We have some deep-seeded mechanism that drives us to have more, and be more than the family next door. I just want people to know what it was, and is. Maybe drop some of the ongoing paranoia in America over it.
The nitpicker also wants to pick at things like the difference between a "government" and a "social system". Of course it isn't a "government" in the end. THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT!
Hey, look, I capitalized all those letters, you should post a response dismissing this one because that's poor usage of the English language.
BAD TODDFATHER!!
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-15 14:46:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
you're just saying that the form of government (and i'll use the capitals the way you were), Communism, and the social ideology, communism, are different.
i can't wait to read the reply to this one.
Tad, don't let me down. make it good.
Submitted by disAbled (user info) at 2004-07-15 14:32:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Quick notes on Communism... (not communism, jackhole)
Two quotes by the most infamous active Communist and leader of the bolshevik revolution in Russia.
"First we will take Eastern Europe, then the masses of Asia. We will encircle the last bastion of capitalism, the United States of America. We will not need to fight. It will fall as a ripe fruit into our hands."
"We must practice coexistence with other nations, until we are strong enough to take over by means of world revolution.... We are not pacifists. Conflict is inevitable. Great political questions can be solved only through violence.... It is inconceivable that Communism and capitalism can exist side by side. Inevitably one must perish."
You are wrong, ToddFather. Communism does have a government, and it is a ruthless and powerful one t that. Communism does not tolerate dissention and supresses any form of rebellion. This sort of violent seizure of power and iron-fisted maintenance of it was viewed as necessary by Marx for the good of the proletariat. While you are correct in asserting that the USSR was adulterated Communism (Stalin turned it into a totalitarian dictatorship for a while), the fact is that before Stalin hi-jacked it, it was established as a Communist (not communist) state. What you have been discussing is communism (notice the lack of capitalization). This is not a government, it is a social system, and the closest thing you could find to it is the lifestyle of some hippies who lived or are living in communes.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-15 14:02:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
smokymtcsw,
I'm not even touching most of your stuff. Most half-educated people will see right through it.
I will comment on one point, however, because most people, like you, are confused about it.
"Also your intro to poli sci 101 on communism is sad. Attempts to create communist states have all failed, but Cuba, N Korea, the USSR and China have all been closer to communism than to socialism as governmental models."
That is a typical arguement by someone that knows nothing about Communism. Places like China and the Solviet Union called their governments Communist, and were labeled that by your contry as well. The reality, however, is that they weren't even close. They were, politically speaking, simply authoritarian or even totalitarian states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
You could say that is what Communism evolved into. The roots of Communism beliefs are almost completely at odds with today's Communist states.
Existing and fallen Communist states were, in fact, trying to become a Communist state. The reasons why this has never happened are many and varied. Communist states have authoratative governments. We all know this. It might surprise some of you to hear that "Communism" doesn't have a government.
Submitted by DenDen (user info) at 2004-07-15 12:54:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I'll give it a "+1" because we in America do have all of those problems. I won't give it a "+2" because you really don't take human nature and the influence of power on populations of powerful nations. If you did, you would see that America and Americans are not so unique.
Submitted by Schwarzes_Glas (user info) at 2004-07-15 12:38:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Not terrible, but I don't agree. America will become facist ONLY if Kerry wins.
Submitted by disAbled (user info) at 2004-07-15 11:19:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Another of George Bush's autocratic tyranny overt the US. Yesterday, his pet agenda was voted down in the Senate. That's right, kids! Old W. couldn't get congress to approve of a constitutional ammendment defining marriage to apply to only heterosexual couples. The ToddFather, light of the enslaved western hemisphere quoth, "Bush can pretty much hammer anything he wants through the legislature right now." A very insightful and valid statement. However, the Europeans agree, America is a fascist nation. Just who is controlling it then? Aha! We're back to the damn Illuminati. No wonder the Free Masons have been so popular in the US.
Submitted by Sambuca310 (user info) at 2004-07-15 11:06:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
smokeymtcsw should be shot
This post was good cept I'm a proud American - not proud of my government or anything having to do with my country - but a proud American nonetheless
Submitted by Jim at 2004-07-15 10:27:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Weak. Repetitive. Overeducated.
Submitted by smokymtcsw (user info) at 2004-07-15 08:38:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Moore also has not done anything for charity. He is a fat selfish bastard, if he cares so much about Flint why did he not invest in small business there? Maybe interest free loans? Because he is incredibly self absorbed. Hope you read the Hitchens article.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-07-15 06:53:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Most of their war propaganda comes out of big budget films and the media"
--
this is odd considering that most of hollywood is made up of extreme leftists.
then again i always found it odd that an actor can be protesting a war one day and starring a in a big budget kill everthing that moves movie the next. Damn hypocrites. Atleast you know what the right is doing or what they are going to do. They come right out with it and there is nothing you can do to stop it...
Submitted by Zero (user info) at 2004-07-15 01:27:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well done! I'm glad more and mroe people are coming forward and standing up to this government that has been taking more and more control over the 'free state' of America. Bravo!
Submitted by smokymtcsw (user info) at 2004-07-15 00:37:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Canada also sucks, and not just because of Quebec, but because despite the massive national resources, no need for defense spending (you are welcome) and homogenous population, you have health care that is worse than ours, an economy that is completely dependent on us and a socially progressive joke of a government that is attempting to ape Scandanavia. Onward towards 30 hour work weeks, legal drugs, 80 percent taxes, and loving homosexuality! Shed this Christian foundation! Lets get moving Canada! Yuck. I wish we could annex Alberta and that is all. As someone who has visited many parts of your beautiful country I must say, America never took you over because we did not need to, but as you screw yourself and your economy with your leftist garbage, I only hope you produce a Milan Kundera or similar great writer, maybe a novel called the Nova Scotia Archipelago as the communist leftists censor and brainwash the people.
Submitted by smokymtcsw (user info) at 2004-07-15 00:25:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The BBC is a bunch of jew hating arafat loving fops. They spread lies and then apologize when their lies are attacked with FACTS (look up Jenin if you have no idea what I am talking about). America does not have censorship. In fact even idiots like Michael Moore who create lie filled propaganda can get their crap released nationwide here. http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ Read this piece by The Nation (leftist mag in America) piece about why Moore sucks so bad.
Also your intro to poli sci 101 on communism is sad. Attempts to create communist states have all failed, but Cuba, N Korea, the USSR and China have all been closer to communism than to socialism as governmental models.
Submitted by dreadnaught_X (user info) at 2004-07-15 00:06:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No Comment
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 19:20:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
good point downer, hey joe is a great song. hard to compare it's greatness to gijoe though. apples to oranges.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-14 19:09:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 18:59:26 (#)
Ranking: 2
hey joe: canada rules. (so hard not to write 'yo joe' there, but then i'd break into song ending with 'and now you know, and knowing is half the battle. YO JOE!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you still could have broken into song with "Hey Joe, where you gonna go with that gun in your hand?"
And yeah, Canada does rule. I heard they have "special" coffee shops in BC.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 18:59:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
hey joe: canada rules. (so hard not to write 'yo joe' there, but then i'd break into song ending with 'and now you know, and knowing is half the battle. YO JOE!)
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 17:34:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Totally unrelated, but pure gold. I submitted it to Boredatwork.com hope they put it up. http://www.dykedolls.com/
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 17:26:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm thinking on it. I've talked with friends and my girlfriend. They think I should stick it out and ignore the trouble. I tend to agree.
In the end, some of the nice comments put out by Uber-authors has helped. I was focusing to much on the bad. Not enough on the good.
I do think I'll back off somewhat. Post now and again. Try to keep some kind of dialogue going on them. That's what I love about this so far. I also realized, I get most of this in University too. You always have people who will disagree and get borderline violent.
I recall a Family Guy quote where Jesus came up. I don't remember the exact context, but the guy said, "Oh, gee, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor." That's where I'm at right not. Laugh it off. Relax.
In the end, for me, it's all about trading perspectives and ideas.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-14 17:11:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Can't wait for your Canadian Fascist post.
Here's a +2 for "seeing beyond my borders"!
And feel free to leave the shots at me in there, I find them funny as all hell.
What happened to abandoning Ubersite anyway?
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-07-14 16:46:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 13:20:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
Without even knowing it, Gibberish, and other users who have posted on his link, have proven my point. http://www.ubersite.com/m/38295
These are the people that this post is about.
On the arrogance and superiority Americans feel, just read the lines about "no one cares about Canada".
Wrong, you don't care.
---------------------------
No, really, no one cares about Canada.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 16:42:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
your mother would <sniff> be so proud....
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 16:31:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What did I do now Dad?
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 16:14:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
...Tad.....
....
..
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 16:14:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hi Tad.
be good or i'll tell the mrs....
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 16:12:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Clarification note:
This looks bad.
"If Gibberish had half a brain, he could have pieced together a decent argument for a movement right in Canada.
Actually, that was a cheapshot, because most Canadians know about as much as Gibberish about their own system of government."
What I meant is that he knows about as much about Canada's government as Canadians do. Although we disagree on a lot, I don't think he is ignorant about his own system of govenment.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 15:59:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Gibberish, sorry about the insults. I just copied and pasted it.... I just re-read it... It was written when I thought you were serious..
THE FINAL VERSION WONT HAVE IT.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 15:58:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Gibberish, sorry if I missunderstood. Hope you can continue to make this conversation interesting.
Anyway, here is a brief version of the Fascist Canadian Post I'm putting together.
It will rule. Enjoy,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warning!! Reading on in this post will result in you learning something about something that goes on beyond your border. There is a good risk that you will become a Communist just by reading on. It would be un-American to proceed, please do your patriotic duty and stop now, move to the top of the page, and -2 this post. Add the comment "Who Cares About Canada?"
Now that we've gotten rid of the infants, we can move on to:
Canadian Politics 101: Fascism in Canada... (The condensed version)
If Gibberish had half a brain, he could have pieced together a decent argument for a movement right in Canada.
Actually, that was a cheapshot, because most Canadians know about as much as Gibberish about their own system of government.
Although America's system of checks and balances, in my opinion, has fallen into disrepute, when it is functioning, it is much more effective at preventing any form of dictatorship from forming. Canada's Parliamentary Democracy is one of the most centralist in the world. This of course, does not automatically mean "fascism", however, "dictatorship" is a pretty bad-ass term to throw around too.
Canada's PM has far more power than your president. Not in terms of global influence, of course, but within his own system. He IS a virtual dictator. IF HE HAS A MAJORITY. And minorities are rare in Canada.
If he has a majority, he simply forces his legislation through parliament. Very rarely will his party challenge it. So, it moves through the House of Commons without challenge. Now it moves on to the Senate.
In Canada, the Senate is mostly a symbolic house. It is a waist of money and resourses. A place where old, over paid "Senators" simply sign on the dotted line. The main reason why Canada's Senate sits on their hands is because they are not elected. They are appointed by the PM.
After it passes the Senate, it moves on to the Governor General. Who is this you ask? Another symbolic figure. Nothing more. The Governor General also signs where they are told to sign. Consider it the Queen's representative.
That's it. Done.
Only one thing effectively can stand in its way now.
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I know, boring.
This is where our Judiciary enters into the equation. These guys can overturn any piece of legislation in Canada they feel runs contrary to the Charter. The government reserves the right to use the Notwithstanding Clause, but it only applies to certain sections.
So, these judges are elected, right? Wrong. Appointed by the PM. Must be nice heh?
So there you have it. Highly centralized. Nearly dictatorial. Not exactly right wing though.
The Conservative Party of Canada is our closest match to your Republicans. The Liberal Party is generally slightly left of center. Not so much anymore though. They have held office now for 11 straight years. Combine that with our Heath Care and willingness to engage in Crown Corporations, and it is difficult to claim we are fascist. Although, some of the pieces DO fit pretty nicely.
Most of Western Canada is very Conservative, I'm sorry to say. I personally have seen a pretty steady rise in the amount of conservative views coming out over the last while. They wanted to be "shoulder to shoulder" with America in the Iraq war saying we HAD to back our allies. Now, I think you should TRY to back your allies, but you don't just back them no matter what. That's just plain stupid. These guys want to spend more on building up Canada's military. ** Here is where you add your joke about our military ** And it is a joke. And that's just fine with me. What do we think we're going to do? We're a country of 30 million, our chances of being a world power are slime and none.
I, for one, have noticed a lot of cries for the privatization of Heath Care and our CBC. This is certainly a Conservative view.
Our status of information is also dreadful. Most of the sources of information are American. Nearly every one is owned by America. The CBC, and a few others are still owned by Canadians. Sad when a country begins losing its voice.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-14 14:43:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yes, I spelled 'hypocrite' wrong on purpose.
Oh, and for a bit more shameless hit whoring: Modern Candian Fascist!
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38295
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 14:42:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
...Tad....take a breath Tad....
(sorry again kid, another inside joke)
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-14 14:40:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wow, thanks for posting a link to my article.
My JOKE article.
Feel free to drive up the hit count even further.
Maybe I'm the only one who gets hangover humor, but then again, who cares?
I was just screwing around, no need to go all "OMG! I CANT BELIEVE YOU JUST SAID SUMTHIN ABOUT CANADA!!! FASCIST!!! OMG!!! UR A HYPOCIRTE!!! AHHHHH MY TAMPON IS TOO SMALL!!!!"
Relax. Never take anything I say seriously ever again.
Goddamn fascist Canucks....
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-14 14:01:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
hey Tad.
now got to your room!!
(sorry kids, inside joke)
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-14 13:20:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Without even knowing it, Gibberish, and other users who have posted on his link, have proven my point. http://www.ubersite.com/m/38295
These are the people that this post is about.
On the arrogance and superiority Americans feel, just read the lines about "no one cares about Canada".
Wrong, you don't care.
The fascist tactics came in his attempt to silence this post. I don't care if the post dies off. It is great that it generated some great discussion. Some people feel I'm wrong, others think I'm right.
You'll never get everyone to agree with your stance on anything.
I urge you to visit his page and read his plea to stop reading or posting here. He has offered to pay you. Perhaps you should seize the opportunity. This is an attempt at censorship if I've ever seen it. I also urge you to take note of the people who gave +2s on his post.
Some of it is funny. Good stuff. However, the call to silence this post is dead serious. No less than two people on that page have also offered to pay you to help stop it from reaching its audience.
It is a great irony that it is precisely what I'm writing about.
I have also met with more than one person who is angry and tired of these types of posts being put up. A lot of people are consumed with anger when anyone posts a redundant post. DON'T READ IT!
Many people DO enjoy this post. And are GLAD they read it. He would like to prevent such people from reaching it.
He also takes more credit for the fact that this page made it to #2 heat factor. There is no doubt he was part of its success. However, it undermines the other people who have constantly contributed to the post.
It does appear this post will die off. It is inevitable that we will run out of stuff to say. I really don't care if it goes. Great. Thank-you to the people who made educated contributions, whether I agree with them or not. It was fun....
Submitted by JimRants (user info) at 2004-07-14 05:08:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
very good points here. Also very scary because so much is true.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-13 21:41:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
a quote many people on this particular page need to read. i think the comment applies quite well.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38275#651220
Submitted by regulate <regulate85.at.hotmail.com> at 2004-07-13 16:27:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Its Heating up!
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-13 16:14:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38295
Go there. Read. Leave.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-13 14:34:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38297
Here is my new and improved response to this and ALL posts...ever.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-13 13:01:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Quasiplasmohedron (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:33:05 (#)
Ranking: 2
Very good post.
If you go far enough to the right after fascism you reach communism - it goes around in a ring. I don't know where I would put anarchy in that.
--------------------------------------------------------
Anarchy is unique in that it is the absence of ANY structure of political philosophy. It would be the absence of the the circle.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-13 12:24:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 22:56:50 (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm back bitches!!!!
Good job on getting to the most heated, thought you gotta admit, without my ass-kicking annoyingness, this post would have gone nowhere.
Here's to TheToddfather and electrictoothsyndrome, we did it!!!
Fuck off cuberat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers to gibberish and toddfather...glad to see this post has kept going! Also, here's to most heated with a + feedback average!
After finally joining the rest of civilized/infomed/history-participating society and seeing Fahrenheit 9/11, one line I think sums up the US military role in the world...
"Pushing little children with their fully automatics, they like to push the weak around!!!" - System of a Down
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-13 12:22:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Good point... We made #2 on the most heated list...
I'm just enjoying reading the debate.
Submitted by Arsenal (user info) at 2004-07-13 12:05:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Read '1984', take notes, compare to Bush administration.
Submitted by disAbled (user info) at 2004-07-13 11:54:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
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Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-13 04:54:06 (#)
Ranking: -2
[Rancorous, misdirected diatribe proceeds] For one to arugue with me that this person is better to have existed on earth rather then been aborted will be comical, because they are bad...
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So abortion is justifiable because it is a viable method of moral control in our population. Or, more simply, kill 'em off before they go bad? Man, you do massive injustice to your political causes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stabkill-
[More pointless haranguing verbiage] I guess commies don't like DVD...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You really can't hope to be taken seriously...
Submitted by Jesus Tymofie at 2004-07-13 11:49:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I love it.
Submitted by kgbpasha (user info) at 2004-07-13 05:15:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I read it. It's got its moments.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-13 04:54:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by disAbled (user info) at 2004-07-13 02:31:59 (#)
Ranking: 0
Are you thereby implying that anyone who is adopted immediately has no value to society, and in fact it would be better for the world if they didn't exist?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Asia orphans are scum of the earth. An adopted child has little chance of living a good life. Of course, that's over there and that's probably why they sent over to America.
I only said I knew of specific people that are completely worthless human beings. IF their mother, in particular, had an abortion the world would be a better place. If you want I can give you an example of someone I know. For one to arugue with me that this person is better to have existed on earth rather then been aborted will be comical, because they are bad. Real bad. Not HITLER bad, but I can use Hitler in saying this: If Hitler's mother had an abortion, would the world be a better place? I'm guessing a few million jews would think so.
If somehow you went back in time and you were standing over Hitler's crib when he was a child, could you kill him knowing what he will become? I always love that question.
As for Colorflux, you said it all right there on your last post. You're from San Francisco. Also a "VCR" hooked up to your TV? What the fuck, man?? GET A DVD PLAYER ALREADY you cheap bastard. I bought a nice Samsung for $50 NEW and it plays mp3 format. I guess commies don't like DVD.
Because of people like you, Colorflux, who takes the word of a Canadian who doesn't know the 3 systems in US goverment. People of people who believe Micheal Moore's movie wasn't propaganda and a real documentary. (Liberals who dislike what Micheal Moore does are nearly ALWAYS good people.) But I know how commie Californians can be. After destroying their own state, they want to make sure the rest of America follows their lead. And who is putting the pieces back together? Fucking Arnold? Un-fucking-believable.
Submitted by disAbled (user info) at 2004-07-13 02:31:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
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Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:46:15 (#)
Ranking: -2
Blah, Blah, Blah...I've seen to many nut-jobs that were adopted and I often wished their mother had an abortion to spare the world the pain inflicted by these pricks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you thereby implying that anyone who is adopted immediately has no value to society, and in fact it would be better for the world if they didn't exist?
Submitted by redheaded at 2004-07-13 01:17:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
im not sure if this has already been brought up because im to lazy to read all of the reviews but i would just like to point out that communisim is not a form of government its an economy. see american uses capitalism and the USSR used communism. i just wanted to point this out to show that u are well a complete dumbass -2 for not knowing what your talking about. u know that dictionary u had look up the words before u use them
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-12 23:29:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:51:24 (#)
Ranking: -2
Thanks to the fact that the following users -2's, ZaToddfather, BanFetish, ZeToddfather, all created by you, are still on the following posts, (Let's not forget the 30 some -2's from "TheToddfather" on the other posts) you will have problems:
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38117
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38046
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37958
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37840
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37800
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37647
http://www.ubersite.com/m/35629
http://www.ubersite.com/m/35536
http://www.ubersite.com/m/34955
http://www.ubersite.com/m/31932
Eat a dick, champion of cockmasters.
----------------------------------------
aren't you done whining yet?
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:51:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Thanks to the fact that the following users -2's, ZaToddfather, BanFetish, ZeToddfather, all created by you, are still on the following posts, (Let's not forget the 30 some -2's from "TheToddfather" on the other posts) you will have problems:
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38117
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38046
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37958
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37840
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37800
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37647
http://www.ubersite.com/m/35629
http://www.ubersite.com/m/35536
http://www.ubersite.com/m/34955
http://www.ubersite.com/m/31932
Eat a dick, champion of cockmasters.
Submitted by colorflux <coonen> at 2004-07-12 21:49:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
2 things:
1. StabKill, shut the hell up, you sound like a stubborn idiot do your self a favor and stop while you're ahead.
2. TheToddFather, thank you for responding to me and not just snubbing me, but I have a query with one of your statements. I almost never watch TV, I have one but only because it is hooked up to a VCR, when 9/11 happened I think I watched more New in a four-day span than I have from then till now. All over TV were people crying and making fools of them selves for the camera. Because I live in San Francisco, I was not affected by 9/11 in the slightest. Nor were my friends and family. I do think that Americans need to get over them selves, but I don't think that 9/11 helped to achieve that, it just made it worse.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:46:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I can chill a bit, but I personally feel offended by poor judgement over things.
The courts are merely part of the judicial system, and if it goes to the supreme court that law will surely get knocked back down as Clinton appointed judges that were clearly pro-choice.
On a side-note, I do not agree with abortion personally but I would never ever take that right away. It is for a woman to decide.
I've seen to many nut-jobs that were adopted and I often wished their mother had an abortion to spare the world the pain inflicted by these pricks.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:35:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fetish,
I don't want problems with you. The whole thing was stupid. I didn't know it reached Bart. I know you pretty much hate every word I write. Keep posting "god you suck as a writer" stuff. I think you're a funny guy after reading your stuff. I don't see why you can't just see this whole thing as a big mix up.... I'm a rookie... Didn't get the "Fetish" thing... Maybe Bart will kill all the posts in his good time..
I look forward to reading your future posts. Even if you give me -2s. Take care. I need a break. Back in a day or two
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:27:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
First off. Let's take this down a notch.
True. Those are the three branches. I've been going at this keyboard for three days straight. I need a break and I'm dangerously close to getting dumped because of Uber.
I will say, the link I posted was stopped by A court. It is not yet known what the US highest court will say.
we can only wait and see.
Sorry I can't write more. I am finished for a day or two.
Your last post was correct though. However, it doesn't prove the judiciary isn't in Bush's pocket. The case will more than likely end up in the SCs lap. My point was mainly that Bush is working on it. These things take time. If he gets in next term I wouldn't be surprised if abortion isn't substantially withdrawn.
You have to admit, the man has more control than a president has had in a while. That can only come from control of most, if not all, branches of gov.
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:22:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I guess you won. Bart removed all my ratings and left the ones from the 4 users you made.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-12 21:09:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You said:
Presently in the US of A, all three branches of your federal government are dominated by the
extreme right.
I say:
The three branches of government are: Executive (President), Legislative (House of Representatives & Senate), and Judicial (Courts).
Before you go bashing a nation you should learn about what you are talking about first.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 20:54:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It was stopped by a court.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-12 20:52:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You fucking moron! I FUCKING KNOW BUSH WANTS ABORTION STOPPED.
But you claim the whole government is in the "conservative" pocket. This is WRONG.
Poof. Talking to you is like talking to a fucking brick.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 20:48:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh dear God...
If you would have read my link, you might have come accross a line that said.
"with Conservatism, theocracy, or Fascism ("the right") on one end, and Socialism or Communism ("the left") on the other"
Hmmm, so what are you proving again?
I thought so...
The link on abortion shows how hard your leader is trying to get abortion stopped.
Do me a favor.
Read just a sample of the posts I've made. I am tired of answering the same shit.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-12 20:41:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You call me a "sad little man" and then give me ammo to use against you? THANKS, DUDE!!!
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0602-06.htm
That shows exactly that there is something wrong with your post. The FEDERAL JUDGE SHOOTS DOWN BUSH'S LAW (Partial Birth Abortion). Hmmmm. Now if the courts were on the "extreme right", why would he do that?
Thanks for proving me right.
Then this link:
---------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum#Left_and_Right
Communism is the opposite side of the spectrum to Fascism. And you're a fool for not thinking so. You're also one of those idiots that thinks debating is about nit-picking every little miniscule detail.
---------------------
I respond with a link from the same site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Practice_of_fascism
Why is the USA not listed in their definition? You are so smart, why haven't others included it?
It says right in that definition that the term is used by the left to describe people of the far right. It doesn't say it is LEGITIMATE and that the far right is indeed fascist.
This is complicated, obviously because North Korea could be viewed as fascist but instead they are viewed as practicing "totalitarianism".
-----------------------
On Michael Moore. Find one place I said Moore's film was censored by government.
I said, conveniently, they don't have to. In fact, indirectly, THEY FUCKING DID! It is well known that Eisner did what he did to prevent losing his tax cuts in Florida where good old Jeb resides.
My God, they just keep coming.
------------------------
The government DID not censor him, did not request he be censored, and since the movie is actually out...in fact he wasn't censored at ALL. So your arguement falls pretty flat. If DISNEY did not want it released in the USA, they didn't have to sign over the distribution rights to a different company. They did. And it wasn't because of massive demonstrations and protest. It was business.
You are right about that Eisner and Jeb Bush are obvious allies, so that's the reason about the whole thing.
You see: Facts are facts. When you can support your views with facts instead of rhetoric, it is much better. Quoting people like Micheal Moore or Al Franken merely makes you out to be more stupid than you are.
There are many problems in the United States and I can go on and on about them. The behavior of the people (especially the young) is horrid.
Fascist they are not. Conservative Capitolists, on the most part yes. And that is obvious in opposition to Canada in some ways.
But, look, I do not defend this administration because I like them. I am only trying to say what is REAL and not the BS you see on the F911 type movies that are sure to incite some muslim to kill more Americans.
Problems exist. This administrations sucks, and the next one will suck too. Supporting Israel seems to be a common trait among democrats and republicans so the terrorism will continue.
You could walk down the streets in America with a big sign saying "BUSH IS A SCUMBAG" and maybe someone will assault you, and that's about it. And this isn't GOVERNMENT having you assaulted, it would be an individual. Try doing that shit in Iran right now about their leader. Or better yet... North Korea.
Do you think that shit was tolerated in any TRUE Fascist nation? Give me a break with your bullshit already.
Submitted by whataefag (user info) at 2004-07-12 20:36:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't know why I missed this post for however long it's been up.
Well said.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 20:08:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No life...
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-07-12 20:07:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
God you're dumbass.
You want to go -2 my posts again?
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 19:46:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Stabkill,
You are one sad little man.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0602-06.htm
You are right about one thing. Anarchy is the farthest left, though I didn't include it because it is generally not accepted as a realistic Political belief.
You are an idiot my friend, and you need to do more research before talking like you're top shit on the intillectual block.
The whole thing is a complex slew of ideologies. Generally speaking, people place the ideologies on a single line. It doesn't have to be that way however. There are several ways to look at them. A box is also commonly used. There isn't a correct way to place them. it all depends on what you're comparing.
Here is a link to start you down the intillectual path of enlightenment... In your case I wont hold my breath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum#Left_and_Right
Communism is the opposite side of the spectrum to Fascism. And you're a fool for not thinking so. You're also one of those idiots that thinks debating is about nit-picking every little miniscule detail.
On Michael Moore. Find one place I said Moore's film was censored by government.
I said, conveniently, they don't have to. In fact, indirectly, THEY FUCKING DID! It is well known that Eisner did what he did to prevent losing his tax cuts in Florida where good old Jeb resides.
My God, they just keep coming.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-12 19:08:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I would like to thank you for pussying out and not answering my post. Because you know that I am better than you and will crush you in a debate.
You provided absolutely no FACT to back up your arguement. NONE at all. And yet people are stupid enough to believe you.
I have proved you wrong ONCE on the fact that if the right is so overpowerful, why is abortion still legal? That is one of their issues they are VERY serious about.
So I win once.
Now another thing I will insult you for:
You do not understand politics. If communism is "LEFT" then it is capitalism that is "RIGHT", not facism. This shows you are an idiot, once again. You are really talking out of your ass.
The opposite of Fascism is ANARCISM.
Come on and insult my intelligence, you blundering moron. I've proved you wrong twice. Now start spewing out facts over censorship.
(I know the TRUTH, not the bullshit you will try to feed people. The FCC is clamping down because of the JANET JACKSON incident and they're taking it out on radio & television stations. The whole Micheal Moore incident you mentioned was not government-controlled censorship. You fell into that trap to believe it was. YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Miramax owned the distribution rights, Miramax is owned by Disney. Disney has ownership that is Bush-friendly, so they didn't care to be part of it. They told him that ONE YEAR before he tried to release the video.... MOORE KNEW THIS. He milked it out for publicity. This is not censorship, moron.)
Come on, prick. Let's see what you can come up with to answer me. Nah...Just SHUT THE FUCK UP.
You cannot win.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 18:15:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Colorflux,
+2 for your post.
Thanks for your post. And I agree with more than you might think.
This post does oversimplify and generalize. Absolutely. No one on Earth could sum such thing up perfectly.
Ya. The Humble Pie bit will make many angry. As I said in my post, I was generalizing. There are many humble Americans. I only ask you, are there more humble Americans after, say, 911?
The thing is, if someone said to me, "Canadians need a slice of Humble Pie", I'd probably shake their hand and agree. One of the things I've noticed about my country is the relatively new theme of using Canada as some shining light in the sea of bullshit. Sorry, it just isn't the case.
Canada has a long and sad treatment of minority groups and aboriginals. We have been on the recieving end of Amnesty and the UN for such things. We almost elected a conservative government just to pay back a corrupt Liberal one. I could go on, but I'm saving it...
I plan on making a post about it when this one dies down.
I don't think you're a Fascist state either. I felt writing an article titled America's movement to the right, I would have lost many viewers. And it would seem I was right. This page has caused quite a bit of excitment.
The themes I pointed out do scare me though, and it would seem too few Americans are alarmed by it. They seem to vent more anger at people like Franken and Moore than they do at Bush.
Your censorship point is a good one too. As far as I know, every nation in history has censored to some degree. I'm not in favor of total exposure. When it comes to political issues and beliefs, I think they should be as even, fair and balanced as possible.
That is not to say that the news can't take a side or position. Only that the right has infinately more resourses to get it's message heard, and it is using those resources, much to the detriment of the free press and free speech. I happen to think it is deliberate. I could be wrong. This could all boil down to profit. The more news agencies you own, the more money you make. It doesn't really matter why. It is happening. And it is effecting what you as an American see on your news networks.
Submitted by Colorflux (user info) at 2004-07-12 17:36:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with what you are saying, but I think you over simplify a bit. It is easy to make straw men than knock them down. I live in America, so I might be biased, but I don't think we are quite a fascist state yet. Although I agree with ALL of your points, you are oversimplify much of it and don't look at the entire picture.
News stops being news once it starts hosting advertising. Once that happens, the people in charge no longer care about informing the masses, just getting as many viewers as possible to make more $$$. So it is a little unfair to judge the American networks, but at the same time they really should get there shit together. Censorship is a tricky thing on American TV because it can mean many different things. All American TV is censored at some level, but so is all TV because it only shows what the advertisers want it to show. I don't know about European TV, but I can bet that it is about making money not informing the people about what they need to know.
But saying things like Americans need a slice of humble pie is just going to piss of the largest group of computer users on the net. Any why, I liked your post but the whole thing is to complex to have any one definite answer.
-Winston Smith
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-12 17:30:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Nah, my mind is plenty rational.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 17:15:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Gibberish...
How far we've come.
Sad I couldn't turn your mind of mush into a rational one.
Submitted by K.M (user info) at 2004-07-12 17:10:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-12 16:57:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
AHHHHH!!!!
I've created a monster!!! THIS POST WON'T DIE!!!!
Hey TheToddfather,
I can't believe we ever pulled off getting this shit on the most heated... Though I think this article is pure grade-A bullshit, and you think my brain is made up of grade-A bullshit, I think we can both remember those good times when I said:
--------------------------------
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:34:25 (#)
Ranking: -2
With a little work we can get this on the list..
I'll pick a topic.
Let the flames fly.
Whats your stance on abortion?
-------------------------------
I look foward to more pointless political debates with an ignorant canuck ass like yourself...
---dAn
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 16:43:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
To show I'm fair and balanced, I offer a link to a pro-Bush campaign add..
http://www.crocuta.net/bush_fake_ad.mov
Hahahahahaha..
Submitted by dolfin (user info) at 2004-07-12 16:38:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Great post, I agree. Someone had to say it, and should have long ago.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 16:32:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Your intelligence level is revealed in your post. There is no need for me to reply.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-07-12 16:29:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Your a socialist, I assume.
I'd kill you in real life the day people like you took over the government. And I'm not even kidding about that.
First of all, you have little understanding of the government.
I can shoot down your post immediately with one fact alone: Abortion.
If the "extreme right" had control of everything, wouldn't abortion be illegal? Now SHUT THE FUCK UP before I slash your throat wide open and leave you laying a pool of RED (since you like red so much).
Anyone who agrees with this prick needs to be hauled off and gunned down like a dog, too. Why? Because the clown gets his ideas from people like Michael Moore and Al Franken.
This assclown has no intelligence within himself so he latches onto words of others.
I'm sure the "dictatorship" America has become is very horrible, isn't it? Only when Bush is out of office in either 6 months or 4 years & 6 months all that rhetoric can stop, too.
(By the way, I'm libertarian not republican so you can take some cheap shots back at me and I guarantee they don't apply.)
Submitted by Arsenal (user info) at 2004-07-12 16:19:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 16:01:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't exactly reach a lot of people, but I thought I should put this up.
Tom Mauser, whose 15 year old son Daniel was killed at Columbine High School, has created a petition for Americans to send a message to Bush stating that they want a Ban on Assault Weapons in America.
There isn't much I can do as a Canadian, however, if your American who opposes this form of weapon in your Country, here is a means of being heard.
I'm not commenting on this. If you want information on Tom's plea, please click the link below.
http://www.tomspetition.org/blog_alert.php
Submitted by Degreeless_Capibara (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:41:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This was actually a really informative post, unlike most posts with the words "Michael Moore" or "fascism" in it.
Heil Mousillini!
Submitted by Socialist_Joe (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:39:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm all for a -2 on my posts. I am deliberately extreme. I like pushing things
-----------------------------------------------
you are not extreme you aint pushing anything
all your doing is repeating things i've seen before, just in so many more words
im no saying your wrong im not saying your right
i realy dont give a shit
and its not like im pro-bush im a fucking socialist
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:17:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It was a size issue.
Apparently my post was too big.
Sorry, but there was a lot to cover.
Submitted by Toddfather1 (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:16:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Domenad,
Oh, where to begin...
How about your point on Impeachment, because it is about all I haven't covered already.
Here's a question.
How the hell is it possible that we were forced to go through months of impeachment hearings over Clinton getting a blowjob, and Bush can lie at will, and send his nation off to war based on lies and propaganda without any cost? Hmmmm?
I'm not suggesting Clinton shouldn't have gone through what he did, although I do think it was overkill. My point is that your country has ONE BIG FUCKING DOUBLE STANDARD. We'll impeach this guy cause, hey, he got sucked off, then he lied about it. Bush commits crimes that rank him with Nixon and Americans defend it. There can be "calls" for impeachment till the cows come home buddy, but where IS the impeachment hearing? He should have been in there a long time ago.
The FACT is, he made every effort to ensure you didn't know the things you know today. If he had it his way, Americans would ONLY know what HE tells them. And his efforts WORKED until leaks began to occur.
AMERICA BELIEVED SADDAM HAD TIES TO AL QUIEDA AND BIN LADEN.
You were pretty much the only western nation to believe such a pile of bullshit. Why is that??
As for your "Realities of Islam" comment, I don't think any nation should "support" any nation that engages in atrocities to anyone, whether that be women or men. This is another example of your countries great ability to keep a DOUBLE STANDARD.
You have a long history of being in bed with Saddam and other ruthless dictators. You are still in bed with ruthless dictators. Your country doesn't have an opinion, as far as I'm concerned, until you treat all Islamic fundamentalist equally. Bush didn't invade Iraq to free its people. If he did, then he must have a plan for Saudi Arabia, right? No, he doesn't. Does he have one for Mugabe in Zimbabwe? No, no he doesn't. Why? Saudis support him and his cronies, and Mugabe has no oil, or anything else of value. So, other nations suffer under ruthless regimes while your president is on a crusade for more wealth under the guise of liberating the people of oppressive regimes.
There are dozens of dictators who are just fine provided they remain loyal to your country. Bin Laden was a Saudi. They may have even partly funded the attack on your country. Bush supports them. Since Bush said "you're even with us or against us." And the recent labelling of anyone who doesn't back Bush and his agenda as un-American. Your view on Islamic extremists makes YOU un-American.
Submitted by Toddfather1 (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:15:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think the people calling for me to "die" should sum up pretty nicely what the level of Free Speech is in America.
Yes, the title is extreme, but if you read the article, I doubt you would see it the same way.
In any event, wanting someone dead is a new one for me. I come from a Country where you don't have to live in fear for expressing your opinions. I guess America doesn't believe in such things. If someone disagrees with you, "DIE".
I'm all for a -2 on my posts. I am deliberately extreme. I like pushing things. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you hate it, put a -2 with a comment why you think I'm wrong, or no comment at all. I don't see the point in resorting to "die" comments. It makes you look like those American Apes that can't stand any form of dissent or expression against anything American.
In Bill Maher's book, When You Ride Alone You Ride With Bin Laden, he talks about morons like you. After 911 occurred, there was a huge flag craze. Some would call it another opportunity for corporations to make piles of money. Anyway, according to Maher, it became a big patriotic statement to have American flags on your vehicle. Anyway, some Ape with 5 flags on his truck yelled at another proud American who had 4 flags on his truck, "Go back to Afghanistan!"
This is the epitome of Ape-like retardedness. These "die" comments aren't too far behind though.
AlahAckbar,
Where to begin. We'll start with Bush. If you can find one post of mine that says Americans "Worship" Bush, I'd like to see it. I think half of all Americans HATE Bush. It's the fact that half still like him that scares me. READ BEFORE POSTING.
I also posted saying, if Americans vote him back in, I will have lost all hope for them to do what is right. I still believe that. Sometimes you have to vote AGAINST a political leader, in order to elect what can only be described as the lesser of two evils.
I realize there are Americans who simply vote Republican no matter what. Well, even they have a line, and we need to ask ourselves WHY hasn't that line been reached? Clearly, if a Nazi lunatic made it to the top of the Republican party, even die-hard Reps would vote Democrat. So, they have a line. Even if 40% of America still supports Bush, that is just too many. This guy should be at 10% with only the most fanatical right-wingers supporting him. That isn't the case.
On movies: My example stands. Your excuse for placing American Generals next to God is "AMERICAN MOVIES ARE MADE FOR AMERICANS, THEREFORE GEARED TOWARDS AMERICANS." I'm afraid that is no excuse. For all you know, God hated every one of your Generals. We don't know, if there is a God, what he thinks about America or Americans. Are your Generals Gods? No. They died just like everyone else.
It would be like me making a film, God Loves Canada More than you. "Oh, I made it geared toward Canadians."
Sad.
On hating Americans:
As much as it may appear, I don't hate America or Americans. I hate repeating myself, so if you re-read my other posts you will notice that I've travelled a lot in America, and enjoyed the country and the people immensely. The purpose of this post is to point out a transition in American thought that scares me. I feel propaganda and censorship IS getting worse every year. I feel there is a lot of evidence to back this up. YES, books are still coming out. And yes, some people are still bringing the left and center views forward. My point is, fewer and fewer are every year. This has been the case for a good thirty years. One can conclude by this theme that fewer and fewer will come out in the future.
Ideas should never be silenced, unless they call for the death or injury of innocent people. The fact is, there are forces at work in America that are succeeding in silencing views other than the right. This, in turn, is preventing Americans from being exposed to alternative ideas. It is called brainwashing.
Even the Americans who fundamentally disagree with this post have agreed that people are lazy. That their downfall is only due to their laziness. In part, I agree. However, why should Americans have to DIG for center and left views while being bombarded by the right 80% of the time.
In the end, I don't care if Americans wake up to this or not. Provided they leave my country alone. After all, if America fixed the issues pressing it right now, I think I would have to attempt to get my citizenship there. And I really don't feel like moving again.
Submitted by Toddfather1 (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:13:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I should comment on the Spam Issue as well. The matter should be cleared up. I hope. The sad thing is, it was all over a stupid misinterpretation on my part. A misinterpretation of a stupid comment on my Fetus for Food Program post. It was simply "Ban Fetish". I saw that and though, "WTF? He didn't even read the post! He thinks this article is Fetish? How sick is this guy?" So I went to his first post, didn't read it, and posted one "Ban Fetish" on his.
I'm new to Uber. So, many of you are probably laughing at the sad fact that I didn't realize "Fetish" was a user. Not my brightest moment, I assure you. So, the Fetish user saw it, and got pretty insulted, and so would I.
I don't care what my rating is on my posts. I pretty much expect a lot of people to hate them. And they do. Others don't. That's what it's all about for me. However, I had just posted my first personal work, which was important to me.
One thing that I was blown away by was the fact that the very first review of my House of Cards short story was by a person who appears to have the same illness. The story makes no mention of what the main character has. Zero. Yet she was the first to find it.
I have read a few of her posts. They are Bar None the best writing I have found yet on Uber. Go and read them.
Anyway. All was well, until, Fetish saw I had a new post up. So, BAM! "Ban Fetish" returns. About two seconds before that I had this huge sinking feeling and began thinking, "Oh god, I shouldn't have posted that." Although the story is 80% fiction, it is pretty close to home. Suddenly I wanted it off Uber. Not possible as far as I know.
So, when the page was spammed I wasn't too pleased. I went to his pages and did the same for something like 10 pages. Stupid. Not to mention I didn't even take the time to read his posts. I'm sure the guy has several things that are personal to him.
So, another Ape comes on and threatens to kill me and my family. The whole thing continues until I realize I am acting like a 15 year old. "What am I doing?"
So, I post on his page saying, "You win." And presto, it stops.
Not my proudest day.
Submitted by Toddfather1 (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:12:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
still wont post... Must be a copy and paste issue...
Submitted by Toddfather1 (user info) at 2004-07-12 15:11:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Apparently I've been banned from Ubersite.
I fixed the issue with the guy yesterday, but apparently management felt I should be stopped.
I tried to post a message today. It wouldn't post.
Luckily I have the message saved,
so I'll post it.
Submitted by wazzawazzayo (user info) at 2004-07-12 13:51:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Toddfather, damn youse a smart mofo. You made one hell of an argument here and backed it up succinctly and in doing so you ended up offending some people. All I have to say is that the truth hurts.
Submitted by disAbled (user info) at 2004-07-12 13:50:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Apologies for the length, but I think this needs to be said.
Rhetoric is tiring, is it not. Especially when the rhetoric is righteosly wielded agains other rhetoric. Well, let's look at a few points here that 'prove' America is a Fascist state.
I have read a lot of posts by confused Americans wondering why people are linking their nation to fascism. Here is a brief explanation.
<From Merriam-Webster Online>
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
"1) The nation, its leader, and its symbols (Flag) are sacred..."
Flag burning is common in protest, and is legal in the United States. Scott Weiland of Stone Temple Pilots (an extremely successful/popular band) wore the flag as a diaper in more than one concert. He is still producing music, making millions, and enjoying free speech in America. Farenheit 9/11 reached best seller in America during its opening week. This film targeted the president of the United States specifically. Michael Moore has not been accosted, arrested, beaten, supressed, or stripped of his ample wealth.
"2) A high degree of censorship is always present..."
The government (fascist as it is) made no intervention in F9/11's release or advertising campaign. Disney would not publish it because they are a Family centered company, and felt that the views and footage was too strong for their image. The government on the other hand consistantly defends Moore, Franken, Clinton, Dean, and anyone else who wishes to use media to proliferate their opinion.
"3) A high degree of propaganda is fed to the population..."
Like the New York Times? Network Television? Major Film Producers? Hollywood in general? Time Magazine? Michael Moore? you are correct, these governments sanctioned institutions defend the motive and action of the Government of the US ferociously.
"4) A highly centralized government..."
Good point. The US is very centralized. However, find a first-world state today that isn't extremely centralized. If you live in even a semi-socialized state, your government owns you. Barcodes are right around the corner.
"5) Fascist usually feel they, their race, or their nation is superior to everyone else..."
I'd enjoy a clarification of Islam by an infidel. That's like a muslim explaining Christianity. Or a Nazi describing the Torah. Anyway, every nation/cooperative (aka EU) in the world believes their system is superior. This isn't restricted to fascists like those damn Americans. The French, English, and Canadians all seem to think pretty highly of their system.
"hero building" This is a result of America's original focus on the individual. However, it seems to me that hero worship is prevelant in all of the great and powerful nations of the world. Babylon, Greece, Rome, Britain, France, Spain.
"Gods and Generals which clearly places American Civil War Generals next to God..."
Did you really just use that movie to exemplify American cinema? This is either rabid ignorance or lack of a better example.
"2) Censorship is at an all time high in America as far as I'm concerned..." Which is why, of course, films like F9/11 are awardwinning blockbusters. Because they are censored. And the american public has no access to criticism. Hey, I don't live in a nation where the largest media group is FUNDED by the government...
"Fox News is an absolutely disgusting piece of work.."
If you don't agree with the views presented, than the content is disgusting? Shouldn't private corporations like FOX have the right to present their political opinions?
"3) As mentioned above, propaganda has become an art-form in the US..."
You are right. But this isn't limited to the US. This is a symptom of powerful and wealthy media sources. Do you really, honestly believe that groups like BBC are un-biased? Bias is what motivates people to speak out. Un-biased people don't vote, let alone stir up the effort to organize macro-media companies to spread their generic opinions.
"4) As already mentioned, Bush can pretty much hammer anything he wants through the legislature right now. He owns all three branches of the American government."
And you accuse the American people of being un-educated and unaware. Do you know how long the Bush administration has faught tooth and nail to get his Judicial Nominees approved? 3.5 years and counting. Is that "hammering" things through?
"5) Americans need a good dose of Humble Pie..."
I'm glad you and your European counterparts are so humble as to show us the light. The humility with which you cry for the reconfiguration of our nation in heart warming. I'm glad that you all are so tolerant as to accept Americans for the way we are and seek to learn something from our ways and lifestyles. I'm glad that we live in a world today that is so welcoming to diverse opinions and political affiliations.
"Great human beings like...Bob Dylan."
Don't get me wrong, Bob Dylan is a God when it comes to music. But the guy sold out to do Victoria's Secret advertising. Bob Dylan is part of the American landscape. He is a great Human being. Remember, though, he is a musician, not a studied political analyst.
Finally, stereo-typing of a Democrat or Republican is ludicrous. The parties are (unfortunately) gargantuan and wealthy beyond reason. To label a person who is a member of one of the parties as inherently more moral or wise than the other is a sad, juvenile stereo-type. The vast majority of politicians worldwide are in politics for the fame, wealth, or power. Don't look for morality in politics. It's hard enough to find morality in the Clergy.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-12 11:48:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i gotta agree with TheToddfather...to a point.
the AVERAGE (that means not everybody, but the majority) american will not inform him/herself adequately to make a good decision about who to vote for. people like bush count on their laziness and use the pop culture approach to sway the simple, accounting for a fair percentage. then as long as enough intelligent voters can be blinded by the bullshit as well he's in. he could (in theory based on this arguement) get into office without saying anything usefull at all.
to me, that's not censorship. but simply because you have to actually put forth effort, like Todd said earlier, to get the unbiased news worries me.
and i'm not just dumping on americans, canadians are no different here. for the record i'm a canadian who's spent over 3 years in the US working/living.
and this was a good debate, for the most part, until that jackass spammer started using handles like 'ThaTaddfather' and 'DaToddfather' and the couple others he's got. 'TheToddfather' is the originator, ignore the retarded child throwing a fit under the other names because he can't handle somebody having a different point of view.
Submitted by anSiarach (user info) at 2004-07-12 11:09:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by krytz (user info) at 2004-07-12 10:15:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
its the arrogance of George Bush that annoys me, but yeah, good points. Slightly biast however.
Submitted by bignasty (user info) at 2004-07-12 09:54:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 because you have no idea what your talking about
+1 because it was at least written well
-3000 for being a huge dumbass
Submitted by geofroley (user info) at 2004-07-12 09:47:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Die. Please.
Submitted by AlahAckbar (user info) at 2004-07-12 09:37:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Your a dumb ass. I love it when people of other nations buy into the hype that their media spews at them.
Oh yes. We are censored so much! That's why you can find hundreds of thousands of books and what not with opposing views!
Oh yes. We use our movies to show that america is better then every country! Woo Hoo! Like "Gods and Generals!" Yeah! That movie rocked!
That movie sucked ass. AMERICAN MOVIES ARE MADE FOR AMERICANS, THEREFORE GEARED TOWARDS AMERICANS.
Oh yep. We just worship our president, and never question what he does. 49% approval rating.
Hey! That means that over half the country DOESN't approve of bush. Moron.
I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how other countries are soo much better then America.
You say WE have a problem with accepting other peoples countries. Jesus.
Shut the fuck up.
Submitted by hairycoo (user info) at 2004-07-12 04:45:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
americans have been that way since the beginning of the cold war. it was probably worst then as global communications are now making it difficult to control the censorship. it hardly mussolini though.
the fact that you are able to determine that your political system leans this way shows that things are not all that bad. that sentence makes no sense.
Submitted by Salmon (user info) at 2004-07-12 03:05:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You made some really good points. I can see how Americans would easily get offended by this.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 21:15:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Due to a spam attack launched by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish, I wont be posting anymore. You put some work into something, and some piece of shit comes along and wants to be an asshole. I haven't got time to put up with this.
He launched the two user names you see that resemble my username in order to drop my rating. On to different things I guess.
Submitted by EndMyPain (user info) at 2004-07-11 21:07:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i agree with everything.
germans ARE better than all other europeans, however. but i include all people of german descent, no matter what religion cause im no fucking nazi scumbag.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-07-11 19:44:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Gotta say, thought provoking in a way, but too many logical fallacies
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-07-11 19:43:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You, sir, are officially so stupid, I thought the termite-ridden oak tree in my back yard wrote this.
"1) The nation, its leader, and its symbols (Flag) are sacred. It is important that the common people place these things up near God, or even above God. This kind of loyalty is crucial to its success, or people will begin to question the motives of their leader and nation."
Well I guess the flag isn't sacred, since assholes in Seattle, New York, and LA are burning it on TV every seconds, to Tom Brokaw's glee. At 49% approval, you think no one is questioning Bush? Dumb, dumb, and quadruple dumb.
"2) A high degree of censorship is always present."
Hmmm, let's see.....Vote to impeach......Bush is Hitler......Regime change at home.......Bush is the village idiot......yep, a whole lot of censorship. Idiot.
"3) A high degree of propaganda is fed to the population. "
Since Michael Moore's movie brought in 80 mil so far, I'd have to agree with this point.
4) A highly centralized government.
"5) Fascist usually feel they, their race, or their nation is superior to everyone else. Generally, this ties in with the propaganda and censorship. You see, if you censor the realities of Islam, and force consumption of propaganda on the people, they will become brainwashed. "
I don't feel it. I know it. I also know the "realities of Islam", such as putting women in bags, cutting off hands, tongues, and clitorises. If you can't say a culture that does these things is inferior to one that doesn't, you're an idiot, but we've already established that.
Even with the definition, you have no idea what fascism is. You've never lived under fascism, never read about a truly fascist regime. In short, you're a moron, and you can take your post and park it sideways, up left.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 19:36:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Have the balls to put your name up if you're going to spam. Pussy.
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-07-11 19:01:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by incanbloodlord (user info) at 2004-07-10 01:09:18 (#)
Ranking: -2
Right on, assbag. You kick ass.
Submitted by g_bop (user info) at 2004-07-11 18:16:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You make a very good point at which all people around the world are noticing: Fascism in America. It's just too bad not all Americans have picked up on it yet.
Submitted by gle_ek (user info) at 2004-07-11 17:22:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 12:52:49 (#)
Ranking: 0
Not to mention your elections usually consist of choosing between an extreme-right candidate and a moderate-right candidate.
-----------------------------------------
Not to mention this post was written by an author with an extremely tight vagina, or a somewhat loose vagina.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2004-07-11 16:37:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
you make a point
we should all be rastafarians and smoke weed and sing kumbaya by campfires.
or is that hare krishnas?
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2004-07-11 16:26:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So is the USA a dictatorship or a corporate playground? Consistency is a good thing, you know.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 14:23:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
indoninja,
We'll just have to agree to disagree...
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 14:22:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Words fail me.... You HAVE to watch this!! Funny shit.
http://www.crocuta.net/AtTheGayBar.mov
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 14:21:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I am giving up on this post. But I just want to leave with a few things. I am not voting for Bush. I think people being critical of the US is a good thing, I don't agree with everything that the US is doing, I am very open minded, and I am sure I get a more balanced perspective of what is going on in the world than you. You seem to think that all media is truthful or colored and censored for America, you seem to believe every bad stereotype about America and that every action that the US government takes is for greed, and the worse part is that you don't realize that you are just as ignorant as a flag waving hill-billy who never watches the news but knows that Bush is a hero caus he is "putting a hurtin on dem towel headed bastards that done mashed up our trade center."
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 13:45:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
On Michael Moore and others like him...
I went on to the BLOG of one of my favorite singer/songwriters Matthew Good. He is a Canadian from the same region I grew up in. I admire him for many reasons, but one of those reasons is that he keeps well informed, and posts regularly on his BLOG, on his own time. He has made it in this world, yet he continues to learn and share what he has learned with those who are willing to listen. Another reason I respect him is that he is openly critical of Canada as well. Something I feel too few Canadians are willing to do.
I want to be frank here. Canada is just about as messed up as the States is. We're going down a terrible path. We have our problems, no doubt about it. I will probably write a post on this soon, so you angry Americans can come on and give that one a +2, ok? My problem, as I've indicated before, is that Canada's issues are generally only dangerous to Canadians. We don't have much sway over other nations or cultures. Some might say only because we can't. I happen to agree with that statement to some degree as well.
We all hesitate to speak out against our nation, although some worse than others. The British and Canadians do have a history of laughing at ourselves, which I think is more rare down south. Maybe you'll disagree.
Few nations were more suspicious than America was in the 60s, and although at times they went too far, overall i feel it was a much healthier situation than America finds herself in today. The mere fact that 50% of Americans still support Bush frightens me more than I can tell you. If they re-elect him I will have lost all hope for Americans to do what is right. The "empire" will have corrupted them to such a degree that they can no longer make rational choices. The man is a liar. He is borderline retarded. He has sent Americans off to die in a bullshit war. Not to mention his domestic policies. I have some faith that Americans will do what's right, after all, they didn't elect him the first time. If they do elect him after this term of service there will be no denying the fact that most Americans don't give a shit about anything but the glory of the empire. America is getting more powerful, that's about all that shmuck has done for you.
Anyway, don't take my word on Michael Moore, here's another perspective: http://www.matthewgood.net/web/mblog/index.php
I was going to just post some quotes, but I ended up just selecting the whole damn article minus the first two paragraphs, so just go read it.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 13:08:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
#3 on the most heated list, and counting...
More interestion info: http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:47:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Name 11 left-leaning spokes people, and I'll name 50 on the right.
Yes... the whole world is soooo wrong about America and Americans. Yes that's it. Well said, just like you've been trained to say it.
http://www.independent-media.tv/gtheme.cfm?ftheme_id=4
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:38:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:08:18 (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear indoninja,
Your argument against my statement that there are only about 10 people speaking out against Bush is about as strong as your last one.
Sure, he's sitting aroung 50% right now, which boggles my mind anyway, but perhaps you need a new pair of glasses because I didn't say "people who aren't going to vote for Bush".
The fact is, and I'll use small words so you understand them,
THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE BRINGING INFORMATION OTHER THAN RIGHT-WING PERSPECTIVES TO THE PEOPLE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn't what you said, you said "I only know of ten left-leaning individuals speaking out against what's happening to your country." So my argument stands.
As to what you are saying now about there being "very few people bringing info other than right wing perspectives to the people," you are just wrong, sure there are idiots like Rush Limbaugh, but for every one of him there is a Michael Moore or Al Franken. People do have choices of what perspectives they get their news from, and a lot don't just take what is spoon fed from the local news, yes some do, but that is the same in every country.
Let me guess you are a student full of political fevor who wants America to open it's eyes and see what is going on. That is good I can understand that, but you are probably coming from an upper middle class suburban background, and now you are surrounded by you poly-sci major friends and you think this gives you an insight to what news is like in America as opposed to the rest of the world. Have you ever lived outside of canada?
I don't mean visited, I mean lived. Rented a house, got a drivers liscence, paid taxes, and worked in another country? No, ok SHUT THE FUCK UP. Until you do don't tell me what news in America is like or how censored compared to other countries.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:38:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Do you guys think information and culture should be in the hands of the corporations?
----------------
No, and we have to change that, but spewing propaganda, twisting the truth, and telling straight out lies like Micheal Moore does doesn't help us a god damn bit, it just makes people hate us even more becuase we're associated with him. He fabricated an entire interview for fucks sakes.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:35:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:31:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
What I will say, is there have been small improvments in the internet arena. Small powerless websites like Democracy Now try to inform people. There is only so much they can do though.
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.anti-flag.com/LI10.php?links=cause
There are at least 35 links there to media sources that aren't right leaning. And there are probably hundreds more.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:33:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know I'm getting into hot water when raising this question with Americans, but I'll shoot anyway. Do you guys think information and culture should be in the hands of the corporations?
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:31:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What I will say, is there have been small improvments in the internet arena. Small powerless websites like Democracy Now try to inform people. There is only so much they can do though.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:31:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
However, it begs the question, how hard should information be to acquire?
-----------------------------------------
It's certainly harder than flipping on the tv, and that's all most of this country is willing to do.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:29:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Go argue with this site. http://www.corporations.org/media/
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:26:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The 1960s were full of people jailed for speaking their mind. And your nation is no stranger to assassinations because you were, how can I put this, in the way.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:25:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear downerSTAIN,
The fact of the matter is, media conglomerates are among the most dangerous bodies alive today. If you look at their growth over the last thirty years you'll notice that not only are certain single sources are growing, but their owners are buying up all the other sources of information.
I used to think Americans were just too lazy the same as you. However, it begs the question, how hard should information be to acquire?
In my mind, Americans were never more informed than was the case in NAM, and look at what happened. The people stood up. When you pay billions of dollars to legitimize propaganda, people BUY it. In more ways than one. Once you have them hooked, there is no other legitimate source of information. Which also plays well for the laziness. Why go elsewhere? James Earl Jones says CNN is OK, who am I to question?
Everything else becomes the lies.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:21:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:17:04 (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear indoninja,
So, making a documentary bringing forward issues and information that the government and massive corporations tried to conceal is not dangerous.
Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion. And there have been many people investigated or thrown into jail in your country or by your country for nothing more than speaking their mind. So, spare me the crap.
-----------------------------------------------
I would like some examples please.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:19:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:00:45 (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear indoninja,
Your international CNN argument would be about as solid as if we were having a debate about Hitler's censorship and propaganda levels, you made an argument saying "Oh, but Hitler told Stalin stuff about what was really going on."
Great argument Einstein.
WOW! CNN exports reasonably balanced journalism, yet, heavily alters it back home. Hmmmmm. They rig it for a Right-WIng audience and censor most of the goings on around the globe, making Americans more ignorant about the world around them. And, how is this not censorship???
You are absolutely correct. I have heard many people speak about the great differences between CNNs international coverage of Iraq vs their homegrown brand. No comparison. But how does this disprove the fact that Americans are kept under a shroud of propaganda and deceit? It doesn't.
Do me a favor, the next time you agree with me, give my a +2.
-------------------------------------------------------------
You can get CNN international in the US. You even get it with basic cable in some places, and this was three years ago when I was living in the US, so yeah it is pretty easy to get access to. And I am sorry that people need to to do more than watch more than one news channel for half an hour a day to get a good picture of what is going on in the world, that is the same in every country. CNN showing news stories in a different light(not heavily altered), or concentrating on different stories on their different channels has nothing to do with censorship, it has nothing to do with Americans being "kept under a shroud of propaganda and deceit." It has to do with money, if people have the choice they are going to watch regular CNN, not international CNN, so the regular one can charge more for commercials, so that is the one they are going to put into markets where people have only one choice.
What about all the other news outlets besides CNN, there are countless papers, magazines and radio programs that are very left leaning, are you telling me that they are all censored?
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:17:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear indoninja,
So, making a documentary bringing forward issues and information that the government and massive corporations tried to conceal is not dangerous.
Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion. And there have been many people investigated or thrown into jail in your country or by your country for nothing more than speaking their mind. So, spare me the crap.
Sure, Moore wouldn't be thrown in the slammer, but as I already said, I wouldn't be surprised if a hit was put on him for what he's exposed.
Even right-wingers like yourself are entitled to their opinions though, as misguided as they might be.
America has the best democracy money can buy.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:10:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:00:45 (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear indoninja,
Your international CNN argument would be about as solid as if we were having a debate about Hitler's censorship and propaganda levels, you made an argument saying "Oh, but Hitler told Stalin stuff about what was really going on."
Great argument Einstein.
WOW! CNN exports reasonably balanced journalism, yet, heavily alters it back home. Hmmmmm. They rig it for a Right-WIng audience and censor most of the goings on around the globe, making Americans more ignorant about the world around them. And, how is this not censorship???
You are absolutely correct. I have heard many people speak about the great differences between CNNs international coverage of Iraq vs their homegrown brand. No comparison. But how does this disprove the fact that Americans are kept under a shroud of propaganda and deceit? It doesn't.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most Americans are "under a shroud of propaganda" because they're too stupid too look for the real news. Everyone knows companies like CNN and Fox News and MSNBC are, for the most part, a load of bullshit, they're just too lazy to get their news any other way. Yes, the mainstream media is mostly in bed with Cheney (because honestly, do you really think Bush is smart enough to do any of these evil things? It's ALL Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.), but there are plenty of other sources to get information. In America, convenience is king.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:08:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear indoninja,
Your argument against my statement that there are only about 10 people speaking out against Bush is about as strong as your last one.
Sure, he's sitting aroung 50% right now, which boggles my mind anyway, but perhaps you need a new pair of glasses because I didn't say "people who aren't going to vote for Bush".
The fact is, and I'll use small words so you understand them,
THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE BRINGING INFORMATION OTHER THAN RIGHT-WING PERSPECTIVES TO THE PEOPLE.
Sure, there are a few Hollywood stars who have come out speaking against Bush. I forgot about them to be honest. So, ya, maybe more than ten. OOOOOOooooooo. But how much information do these people offer up to the greater public? How many sides of a given issue do Americans see? When compared to people in other industrialized nations, very little.
Not only that, but your country is buying up newsgroups from around the world in order to exploit the rest of us. So one day we'll all sound ignorant like you... Sad.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:03:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 02:18:45 (#)
Ranking: -2
"Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:46:31 (#)
Ranking: 0
You think Michael Moore makes propaganda because you are a fellow fascist. A good ol' American fascist. Michael Moore is a man I don't always agree with. Much of his stuff is too one sided. However, I only know of ten left-leaning individuals speaking out against what's happening to your country. People like Moore and Chomsky are brave enough to stand up against a SEA of Right wing bullshit. People like you are a dime a dozen down there.
Be a little more original."
Only ten left leaning people are speaking out against Bush? Ten, thats it? That is funny because in recent pools his popularity has dropped below 50 percent. The majority of public figures in hollywood and the music industry are anti-bush.
And please tell me how what Michael Moore is doing is brave? He is showing a one sided story that promotes his political agenda and making a boatload of money from doing it. How does that take courage? Is he going to go to jail for doing what he did? Will the Bush's fascist cohorts try and assasinate him? The worst that is going to happen is more people will say they hate him, and more people will say they love him, which he wants. Thast isn't brave, that doesn't take courage.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish there was a way to rate comments. +2 for this, indoninja.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-11 12:00:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Dear indoninja,
Your international CNN argument would be about as solid as if we were having a debate about Hitler's censorship and propaganda levels, you made an argument saying "Oh, but Hitler told Stalin stuff about what was really going on."
Great argument Einstein.
WOW! CNN exports reasonably balanced journalism, yet, heavily alters it back home. Hmmmmm. They rig it for a Right-WIng audience and censor most of the goings on around the globe, making Americans more ignorant about the world around them. And, how is this not censorship???
You are absolutely correct. I have heard many people speak about the great differences between CNNs international coverage of Iraq vs their homegrown brand. No comparison. But how does this disprove the fact that Americans are kept under a shroud of propaganda and deceit? It doesn't.
Do me a favor, the next time you agree with me, give my a +2.
Submitted by LexLutherin (user info) at 2004-07-11 02:58:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
agreed. don't listen to the idiots. they're everywhere.
Submitted by Socialist_Joe (user info) at 2004-07-11 02:55:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
america sucks lets mention canada and denmark blah blah blah blah blah
Fascism blah blah blah
communism blah
1 blah blah
2 blah
3 blah
4 blah
5 blah blah blah blah blah
1 blah blah blah blah blah blah
2 blah blah moore blah blah
3 blah blah propagand blah blah
4 blah bush blah blah
5 blah bob dylan blah blah
Al Franken blah blah blah blah blah
some random shitty qoute
that about all this post offered
Submitted by Flatuloso at 2004-07-11 02:54:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
As the score says, don't bother reading this.
It's pretty freakin' boring, what with these people that apparently love to read their own typing.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 02:48:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
gibberish, there is seldom any listening to reason on political posts. especially ones as bad as this.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-11 02:40:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I tried to argue the "Only 10 people, dumbass?" point before too.
Some people don't listen to reason.
So I tried illogical drunk reasoning.
Didn't work either.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 02:18:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:46:31 (#)
Ranking: 0
You think Michael Moore makes propaganda because you are a fellow fascist. A good ol' American fascist. Michael Moore is a man I don't always agree with. Much of his stuff is too one sided. However, I only know of ten left-leaning individuals speaking out against what's happening to your country. People like Moore and Chomsky are brave enough to stand up against a SEA of Right wing bullshit. People like you are a dime a dozen down there.
Be a little more original."
Only ten left leaning people are speaking out against Bush? Ten, thats it? That is funny because in recent pools his popularity has dropped below 50 percent. The majority of public figures in hollywood and the music industry are anti-bush.
And please tell me how what Michael Moore is doing is brave? He is showing a one sided story that promotes his political agenda and making a boatload of money from doing it. How does that take courage? Is he going to go to jail for doing what he did? Will the Bush's fascist cohorts try and assasinate him? The worst that is going to happen is more people will say they hate him, and more people will say they love him, which he wants. Thast isn't brave, that doesn't take courage.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-11 02:06:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Thanks to indoninja for proving that this guy is an idiot.
Oh by the way everyone...
Now that the alcohol seems to be out of my system I'm back to hating liberals.
Fuck
Kerry
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-07-11 01:59:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Nevermind that this rambled and didn't really stay on topic, you are getting a minus two because you are an idiot. "Presently in the US of A, all three branches of your federal government are dominated by the extreme right. The extreme left is Communism, the extreme right is Fascism. The American Democrats sit somewhere in the middle." So, Democrats are moderate, but if you are in the only other major American party you are extreme right, or a fascist? There are no moderate republicans, and no democrats are extreme left? That alone makes you an idiot, but then you go to complain about all the censorship going on and the internet is the only way to find out what is going on, where the fuck do you live? No newspapers, no cable. I will give you that fox news is very biased towards America, maybe CNN is too, but if you watch CNN international(which comes with most digital cable packages) you will see that it shows more anti american stories than BBC or any other major international news agency. You can see farenheit 9/11, you can buy stupid white men, there are countless left wing and extreme left wing newspapers and magazines out there, where is this censorship? Do you think life in America is similiar to any other fascist country in the world? Do you think you would be in the same situation in Nazi Germany?
I am all for people complaining, the simple fact that you can complain proves the US isn't a fascist country, but if you want change use your fucking head and make real complaints.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:51:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
hmm... don't have a clue in hell what I was gonna say in this review.
Oh well.
I love being an ass for the sake of being most heated.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:44:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Not quite sure where to put anarchy either.
On the far left, because it is the ultimate freedom?
Fuck, I'm too drunk to think about politics.
Submitted by Quasiplasmohedron (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:33:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Very good post.
If you go far enough to the right after fascism you reach communism - it goes around in a ring. I don't know where I would put anarchy in that.
Submitted by Quasiplasmohedron (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:31:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by UlfGabe (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:31:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
well done, if slightly hashed out in the explanation
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:24:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Good for you polly.
What country are you from?
USA?
Canada?
Bosnia?
Just wondering
Submitted by polly (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:21:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i'm democratic.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:16:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm pretty sure this was one of the fasted rises to most heated ever.
I rule for turning up the thermostat.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:08:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Another part of my agenda (as king of the world) is to kill everyone with AIDS or HIV.
Nothing against gay people, but that shitty disease has gotta stop. Now.
Kill the carriers, kill the disease.
Sure, required AIDS testing would be expensive, difficult to do on a worldwide scale, and a lot of people wouldn't want to be tested.
But we can always kill the people who resist.
Hitler?
huh? me?
AIDS sucks.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:03:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-10 18:32:03 (#)
Ranking: 2
Loved it Tad. Good job Tad. Well organized.
i must also thank electric and gibberish for the entertaining comments. good fun.
----------------------------
Thanks Gnome, but that's really nothing.
Just wait...
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 23:00:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
By the way, i'm drunk off my ass.
Went to a block party.
Went in a hot tub.
17 shots of vodka later....
Thank god i'm irish and can hold my liquor well.
Those girls who were with me in the hot tub are another story...
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 22:56:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm back bitches!!!!
Good job on getting to the most heated, thought you gotta admit, without my ass-kicking annoyingness, this post would have gone nowhere.
Here's to TheToddfather and electrictoothsyndrome, we did it!!!
Fuck off cuberat.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 20:11:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Wow, we're up to #4 on the most heated list now....
Submitted by sosjtb1999 (user info) at 2004-07-10 19:58:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I like people who aren't American. They make me feel less crazy for dissenting against my own country.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2004-07-10 19:19:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Brilliant
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-07-10 18:32:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Loved it Tad. Good job Tad. Well organized.
i must also thank electric and gibberish for the entertaining comments. good fun.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-10 18:23:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 10:34:13 (#)
Ranking: 2
Actually Downer, if you moved to Germany, ironically, you'd find that most Germans speak English as a second language, but I agree with your point. I was merely recalling the way I felt about the rest of the world as a kid, not being exposed to different cultures. Classic example of how America is an island of cultural isolation would be the way we refuse to adopt the metric system in spite of its obvious benefits. America has a habit of putting its fingers in its ears and humming nursery rhymes, effectively shutting out the rest of the world.
-----------------------
Yeah, you have a good point. I can't wait until I'm old enough to move out of this godforsaken country. Canada, here I come!
Submitted by traxzilla (user info) at 2004-07-10 18:11:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You need to get out more.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-07-10 17:58:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well written, insightful and honest. I liked it very much.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2004-07-10 17:56:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Jesus Christ. Toddfather, I'm still wondering how you can think Michael Moore is in any way courageous for making some propagandized films that use mostly misleading(and yes, even false) information. If speaking out against a government which guarantees you the right to do so is gutsy, then the Dixie Chicks are the heroes of the 21st century.
In regards to republic/democracy: you're being incosistent. You're saying that Nazism is not the same as fascism because it is a modified form of the latter, yet exactly the same statement applies to the relationship between a republic -in which officials are elected representationally- and a democracy -in which officials are elected popularly and directly.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 16:45:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You have to assume your audience doesn't know what you're talking about when posting on Uber.
Submitted by Lynne (user info) at 2004-07-10 16:35:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Ehh... it was okay...
Next time lets just assume that I know that communism is too utopian to ever exist, though, instead of treating me and everyone else like an ignorant asshole, okay?
That was ballsy, though, to do a political post for your second post.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 16:23:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Third post up and running, take a look at the Fetus for Food Program at http://www.ubersite.com/m/38082
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:44:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
NOT bad for a second post.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:43:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This post deserves to be read.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-07-10 15:31:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
damn straight
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:31:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
happened pretty fast too.
and i called it early in the game...
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:14:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
our hard work has paid off.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:10:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
#5 on the most heated debates!!! Nice..
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:09:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Just say that I am the one who offered to distribute the fetuses internationally if the business started booming.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:09:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
post one if you wish, just reference me in it.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:06:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So, Electric, in my quest to insult every Ubersite user, I would like to post a Fetus for Food article.
It was your idea, so, I don't want to steal it from you. If you're going to post one, I'll find other ways to annoy the masses.
Mind if I post one?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:06:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
later gibber, i know you started with some shennanegins, but i forgive you, you came around to the +2 light.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:04:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
When you commit genocide, or trying to practice racial or genetic cleansing, you're missing one of the most important facets of Evolution: DIVERSITY! A trait that appears to be a wakness to us now, just might be what saves the species in a time of severe crisis!
Therefore, foresight and wisdom must be excercised in our ethnic cleansing practices if it's ever going to be effective. We should maybe even hire an ethnic cleansing consultant.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:03:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah, most of the art does come from fucked up people.
Like me.
But we could always brainwash people into not caring about art.
VIVA BRAVE NEW WORLD, BABY!!
Gotta go,
I'll be back later
Thanks for giving me something to waste my time on.
--dAn
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:00:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You could say the same thing for the terrorists who blew up two of your buildings. Just doing their part to keep Earths population of Americans down.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 15:00:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I say what's a mental impurity.
No, depression isn't. That would be stupid.
But that's not to say that other mental disorders wouldn't be.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:59:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
351 hits
119 reviews
pretty good %
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:59:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Or, ironically, we could just revert to the classic means of population control: WAR! Governments have used this method for thousands of years, and Bush is merely doing his part to spare the environment by starting this "war on terror".
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:57:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Who's to say what an impurity is? Is mental illness an impurity?
Most of the art that people love in this world comes out of the minds of people who were severely depressed and mentally ill.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:56:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Great idea with the court order thing TheToddfather.
We should rule the earth!
(I call South America! Those brazilian chicks are fuckin hot)
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:54:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Eventually we could weed out impurities in the human gene pool. People who don't live up to the standards are sterilized (or euthanized).
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:54:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I also agree with Gibberish on the fact that it's a woman's right to choose. Only a woman's right. No questions asked. Women have too much power under such conditions. I think a man should be able to say, "Go ahead and have it, I'm not paying for it." Boom! Court order that you can never contact the child, EVER! But you don't pay.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:52:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Why yes, I AM a crazy mofo.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:51:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I actually have my own way of curbing the population problems and the number of idiots out there. If I was at my house right now I would post it right now. I kinda come off sounding like Hitler in it, but that's a small price to pay for genius.
It's called "Genetic Cleansing"
Why kill people based on race or religion when you can just kill people with shitty genetics that further to spread of assholes across the cosmos?
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:50:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
it would help curb population problems, but is it the best way to curb such things? I don't think so.
If an abortion clinic was a shameful place to go, people might take unprotected sex a little more seriously.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:48:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The Fetus for Food program is People!!!
PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:48:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree abortion is a serious descision, but it could sure help curb the population explosion.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:46:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Electric: Love the commment of Fetus for Food program. If you don't post a message with that title, I AM!!
LOVE IT. Puts it in perspective like nothing else. Imagine the girl's face when you inform her that it will be eaten later.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:46:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh goody, we have a different stance on abortion.
Let the sparks fly.
Abortion is desperately needed.
This country doesn't need more teenage white trash moms.
Well, actually, the sales of trailers will sky rocket.
hmm... time to reconsider my view?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:45:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Put it this way, do you find Corky from "Life Goes On" intimidating or scary??? I rest my case.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:44:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
They at least need to be able to strike fear into people's hearts, and that's difficult when you're an utter moron.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:43:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You don't have to be smart to be a fascist dictator. Since when was that criteria for fascist dictators?
Sweet jesus, you give them more credit than they deserve.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:43:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
My opinion on abortion is
HELL FUCKING YES
We have too many babies anyway.
I hate babies.
I think abortion should be both legal and mandatory. If both parents don't consent..
BAM! Aborted, biatch!
And if the chick is really strung up about morality and all that shit, she can have the thing but the male isn't responsible for child support.
I rule.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:42:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 btw
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:42:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If i got as many +2's on my posts as i do on replies , i'd be a popular man.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:41:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, good heated topic....
Abortion...
Under certain circumstances I support a woman's right to choose. However, I don't support it becoming an alternative form of birth control.
Another thing I hate, is how it has become something we try to make easy for the girl who's doing it. This shouldn't be EASY. It should be hard. For fuck sakes man, you're choosing to end a potential life! You'd think you were walking into a daycare when you go into these places. It should be more like prison, where, if you haven't been raped or something insane, you get treated like the irresponsible piece of garbage you are.
People should be ashamed of it. Actually, when I was young, me and my girlfriend got one. Back then, I was a very different person. Today, let's just say, I'm fucking ashamed of who I was. People treat it like you're going in to have an ingrown toenail removed. Fuck you!
I believe it needs to be there. And people need to choose. But let's treat it a little more realistic people. It is a serious thing. A serious decision.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:40:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I repeat:
+2 for electrictoothsyndrome's statement.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:39:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think abortion should be legal as long as we sell the unused fetuses to third world countries for food.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:39:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 for electrictoothsyndrome's statement.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:38:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What the fuck is goin on with your election by the way?
Haven't checked it out in a month or so.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:37:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Bush isn't smart enough to be a fascist dictator, so Todd's argument doesn't hold water!!!
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:36:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Or if that topic isn't good for you:
Canadians are a bunch of fascists, explain.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:34:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
With a little work we can get this on the list..
I'll pick a topic.
Let the flames fly.
Whats your stance on abortion?
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:32:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
12th on most heated by the way
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:32:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
your leader is a fascist, whether he has been able to turn your country into a dictatorship or not...
And, yes, this arguement is pretty retarded.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:32:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Hence the "worst arguement ever" statement.
I was just being an ass.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:31:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No, because America finds itself in the best possible form of dictatorship without a full on Coup. The sad fact is, most Americans aren't the least bit alarmed by this.
It isn't a complete dictatorship, and I never said it was. But if your president had anything to do with it, it would be.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:29:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Obviously, if he wants to be a dictator, then he must not be one already.
No dictator, no fascism.
Oh man, worst argument ever.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:27:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator
Looks like you just disproved another line in the post with your own quote.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:26:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"It's not a dictatorship in Washington, but I tried to make it one in that instance."
Chilling way to describe his executive order making faith-based groups eligible for federal subsidies, New Orleans, Louisiana, Jan. 15, 2004
How about now?
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:25:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator." GW Bush. Still not a fascist?
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:25:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Suprisingly enough, Fox News is actually slowing down with the lavish praise for Bush.
I almost had a heart attack when I heard Bill O'Reilly say something critical of our president.
Thank god.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:23:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier." GW Bush. Need I say more?
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:22:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
2) Censorship is at an all time high in America as far as I'm concerned.
Considering every news network goes around blasting Bush 24/7 (except Fox News), I can't exactly say that the "man" is controling what the media says.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:19:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
4) As already mentioned, Bush can pretty much hammer anything he wants through the legislature right now. He owns all three branches of the American government.
It just isn't true. I've already responded to that before.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:18:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
My dad majored in political science.
My brother is currently majoring in political science.
I'll be majoring in political science soon enough too.
woo hoo for poli-sci!
It's the new Atkins
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:17:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And don't say kill six million Jews.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:16:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What part of my little post is wrong then? What more does he need to become the fascist president?
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:14:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have two degrees in Political History, and Bush is NOT a fascist. Trust me on that one.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:08:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:01:43 (#)
Ranking: 2
gibberish, calling people whiney? Jesus fucking christ, you've done nothing but cry and bitch about this post while offering no counter points at all. Man you suck.
--------------
Me? Acting hypocritical?
No way!
What an observant lil' guy you are!
Thanks for pointing out the obvious, Whiny McWhinyton
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:06:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am majoring in Political Science, and Bush IS a fascist.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:05:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I knew it wouldn't last....
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:05:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
A shitload in here that is true: +2
I think i'm gonna start going back and forth between +/- 2
Just for the hell of it.
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:05:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Toddfather - I have spent 5 odd years subjecting myself to the political History of Europe, and Hitler was most definitely a Fascist. Fascism will be modified for any given circumstances in the same way as Communism will be.
Bush is NOT a fascist. Any more than Tony Blair is a Socialist.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:04:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 for saying I cracked.
And there's a shitload in here that isn't true.
Which makes it a bad post.
Screw you.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:03:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
We cracked Gibberish!! Thanks for the +2 Gib
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:03:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well, when you're too stupid to see a good post when it's right in front of you, I am left to assume that you don't observe your world enough to know that what you've just read is true.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:03:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 starting to plus 2 this just because it gives me something to do.
Even if Moore doesn't directly lie in his films, he uses half-truths and insane amounts of editing to prove his point. God, I love it.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:03:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:01:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
gibberish, calling people whiney? Jesus fucking christ, you've done nothing but cry and bitch about this post while offering no counter points at all. Man you suck.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 14:01:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Here's to being 17th on the most heated.
*gasp* It's almost an accomplishment!
And here's to creating an outlet for me to be an asswipe.
+2
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:59:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I would say Moore believes in his cause. He sees what is happening, so he counters it with something closer to art than propaganda. Although it certainly does manipulate the viewer with emotion. Propaganda is something I associate with lies. Maybe that's incorrect. So, good point. What Bush did was lie to his people for months on end to justify going to war with Iraq.
I'm not convinced there is even a shred of lying in Moore's film, although I agree it is one sided.
Finally, someone SANE joins the discussion, thanks electric
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:57:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I think Michael Moore makes propaganda because he does.
But he does a damn good job of it so, though he may be a douche, I can still respect that.
The government makes propaganda too, and a damn lot of it. Don't think I'm stupid enough not to notice it.
The fact that you only know of 10 people who speak out against the government here proves you shouldn't be talking about this in the first place. We have a good 100,000,000 of them here.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:54:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Also, I don't know if it's quite propaganda if your intention is clearly stated beforehand! I'll now have to look up the word propaganda to see if subversiveness is a condition here.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:51:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
All forms of persuasion be it written essay, film, or otherwise could be called propaganda. That is the point of these things: to try to garner support and sympathy for your cause of side of an argument. It is propaganda for Moore to get people to vote against Bush in the upcoming election...His propaganda in this endeavor is far more benevolent than Bush's propaganda trying to convince people to go to WAR IN IRAQ. On the one hand, people DIE, on the other, people get information...now tell me which is worse. I know the word "propaganda" carries a negative connotation, but I find it funny that Americans have a hard time believing that their own government would partake in these activities....fools.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:46:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You think Michael Moore makes propaganda because you are a fellow fascist. A good ol' American fascist. Michael Moore is a man I don't always agree with. Much of his stuff is too one sided. However, I only know of ten left-leaning individuals speaking out against what's happening to your country. People like Moore and Chomsky are brave enough to stand up against a SEA of Right wing bullshit. People like you are a dime a dozen down there.
Be a little more original.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:45:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And thanks electrictoothsyndrome, you have a fitting name too.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:42:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Anything to do with Michael Moore pisses me off too.
He's not some brave hero "just trying to spread the truth".
I've said it before, i'll say it again, that man makes better propaganda than Goebbels.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:39:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hitler was a Nazi. Nazism is a modified form on fascism. Mussolini was also a fasist and his government was not responsible for the things Hitler did.
So, Bush is a fascist, not a Nazi.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:38:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And also,
I'm right
I did like this comment though:
--In other words, if you are wrong, and I am right, the world is FUCKED.--
That almost tempted me to +2 this.
Oh man that was funny as hell.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:36:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Of course it took a great number of agressive posts, you just wouldn't get angry.
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:33:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Now hold on.
Whilst I don't like George Bush or those associated with him, I cannot agree that American politics are on the far right. Bush is no Hitler.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:32:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If you re-read your posts, you might find that it took MANY agressive posts by you before I became angry. I enjoy a good debate, and if you disagree, great. Believe me, I HOPE I'M WRONG. Evidence doesn't seem to prove me wrong. And if I'm not, my children are in a lot of trouble. If America just kept to itself, I wouldn't have any problems with it. However, that isn't the case. Things like globalization are being forced on other cultures, eliminating them from the face of the earth in some cases. Maybe that is good, but I sure as hell haven't seen any health worldwide debate on it.
In other words, if you are wrong, and I am right, the world is FUCKED.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:29:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Just because you obviously didn't read this...
------------
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:24:48 (#)
Ranking: -2
You know, I'm pretty sure we're both operating under one of the maddox ways to have a good day.
That one about having an argument with someone and never letting it die, even if you're wrong.
-----------
Fuck off.
...Bitch.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:28:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:27:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 11:10:19 (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh, and shut up with the little dictionary definitions, I don't give a flying fuck what 'democracy' means according to Webster.
How did Bush get elected when he didn't win the popular vote?
It's because the USA is a republic, moron.
Does a little thing called the Electoral Collage ring a bell?
Douche, don't mess with an irrational tired guy. You just might get owned
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Look, Idiotbag, I KNOW what the fucking electoral process is in my country. I, unlike some people at least attempt to inform myself and keep an open, unlike some people who have a tendency to open their fat-ass, high-school-attending mouths. Wait till you get old enough to vote and pay taxes, then we'll talk gibberish, gibberish. Fitting name btw.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:27:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This post should have died out a long time ago, but for the sake of stoking the flames a bit...
Canada sucks monkey balls.
John Kerry is a douche bag.
I hate liberals
I'm right, you're wrong.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:24:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You know, I'm pretty sure we're both operating under one of the maddox ways to have a good day.
That one about having an argument with someone and never letting it die, even if you're wrong.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:21:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Listen man, I agree with some of the stuff you're trying to say here. This country has a lot of problems. Don't get all bitchy.
Unfortunately, the rest of the post is bullshit.
-2
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:21:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Here little boy:
democracy:
Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
A political or social unit that has such a government.
The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
Majority rule.
The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:19:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Do stop reading if you don't like it.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:18:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
--Because a democracy is simply a government that is ruled by representatives elected by the public.--
Good job, you just defined the word republic for me. A democracy is where people vote directly on the issue, sort of like the whole referendum thing they went through not too long ago in California.
You don't know anything. Just do yourself a favor and stop talking about something you know so little about.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:16:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Do shut up.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:15:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Leftist politicians don't get elected in America because of.... READ ABOVE POST.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:13:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A Republic is a form of democracy you moron. Canada is where I live, so I can't do much to change your system. So stop telling me to DO something about it, because that is the intention of my posts.
You are starting to piss me off. Canada opperates similarly to your "Republic", we have a system that does not opperate under Representation by Population anymore than your country. If you want to be technical about what Canada is, you call it a Parliamentary Democracy. Howerver, democracy is just fine.
Why?
Because a democracy is simply a government that is ruled by representatives elected by the public. Do Americans elect their leaders? Most of them, yes. Their top leader? Yes, they do....
You are a democracy, deal with it.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:12:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Let's see.. what else can I pick at about your response?
---------------------------------------
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 12:52:49 (#)
Ranking: 0
Not to mention your elections usually consist of choosing between an extreme-right candidate and a moderate-right candidate.
Choosing between the better of two evils is not democracy
--------------------------------------
John Kerry and Howard Dean aren't exactly the champions of the right-wing agenda.
And the reason that there aren't enough extreme left political correct tree-huggers out there for you to vote for is that the majority are fucking idiots and usually don't have the popular support to make a successful run for office.
This isn't to say that (before you even accuse me)
1) That all liberals are dumbasses.
2) That they never get elected (My friends live in New Paltz, NY... It's a shithole run by the Green party. My friend Jamie smokes pot with the mayor. Seriously.).
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 13:01:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And to state this fact once again:
AMERICA IS NOT A FUCKING DEMOCRACY
It is a REPUBLIC.
Stop with the whole "Boohoo... America isn't really a democracy!!! You're all wrong!!!" routine. You're making yourself look like more of an idiot than you probably are. Go do some research, come back, and make an educated post.
Maybe I'll listen, but due to the intense "censorship" in the USA, I'm not sure it will ever be put on the site.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 12:57:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Like I said before, you whining bitch, get out there and change the system.
You don't like it? Find a candidate who supports your point of view and vote for him.
There isn't one? Then feel free to run for office.
Dumbass.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 12:52:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Not to mention your elections usually consist of choosing between an extreme-right candidate and a moderate-right candidate.
Choosing between the better of two evils is not democracy.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 12:44:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Jesus Mother Fucking Christ.
I said nothing about that last election being a Democratic orgy of fun.
Bush was appointed by the system of government that is currently in use.
If you dont like the electoral collage system then use your 1st amendment rights (freedoms of speech, press, petition, assembly) to bitch about it to your senators and reps. Get out and do something to change the government. To do this you must stop being a lazy piece of shit.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 12:28:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Someone should remind Americans posting about democracy about what happened in their last election. Perhaps you're too young to remember, but the man in office was not elected by a democracy, he was appointed by the Senate.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 11:16:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Looks like Istaros and CoachMagirk27 did all my work for me here.
But feel free to post and make me go into Ass-kicking-political-fact-spewing mode
Or not. I'm still fucking tired.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 11:10:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh, and shut up with the little dictionary definitions, I don't give a flying fuck what 'democracy' means according to Webster.
How did Bush get elected when he didn't win the popular vote?
It's because the USA is a republic, moron.
Does a little thing called the Electoral Collage ring a bell?
Douche, don't mess with an irrational tired guy. You just might get owned.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 11:06:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Good Morning Uber...
Oh for the love of god...
You fucking misspelled Santa Claus
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 10:34:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Actually Downer, if you moved to Germany, ironically, you'd find that most Germans speak English as a second language, but I agree with your point. I was merely recalling the way I felt about the rest of the world as a kid, not being exposed to different cultures. Classic example of how America is an island of cultural isolation would be the way we refuse to adopt the metric system in spite of its obvious benefits. America has a habit of putting its fingers in its ears and humming nursery rhymes, effectively shutting out the rest of the world.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-10 10:02:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I remember growing up with that classic egocentriscm that I suspect ALL PEOPLE experience in the beginning of their lives, wherein we think that our language, in my case English, is the REAL language and everyone else is just misinformed or have yet to convert to the real way. (I think this is far more common than anyone wants to admit.) I guess I always thought for some reason they would eventually accept that English was the right was to speak and come around. Some people grow out of this, and some don't. The people that think that America can do no wrong never grew up, and, I suppose still think everyone will one day speak English...which might happen one day yet.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't necassarily think English is the right language, I just think that if people are going to move here, they should learn the fucking language. I know I wouldn't move to Germany without learning German, because communication is pretty much the biggest part of out society.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 09:35:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
de·moc·ra·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-mkr-s)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
1.A political or social unit that has such a government.
2.The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
3.Majority rule.
4.The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
Check out the third one down...Now I find it funny that the man in America's highest office is there in spite of the fact that the majority of Americans did not vote for him. How can this be a democracy when this is possible? Plus, there are restrictions on our abilities to elect our leaders. THere are restrictions on who they can be, such as age. And although unwritten, there are definite class restrictions too when you consider the amount of $ it takes to run a modern campaign. Even the rich candidates get help from corporations and private contributors who, in turn, get a nice back rub once the president is in office. Until America revamps its process, I will NOT consider it a democracy. I personally think that television commercials should be ILLEGAL in presidential campaigns. The only advertisement of a candidate should be in live debate with ALL the other available candidates...I know during the Clinton/Dole debates on NBC, I think it was, no other candidates were invited to join...this should also be illegal. THere are many things that could potentially level the playing field and perhaps force presidents to address the issues and avoid muckraking, and also force them to be better presidents once they got into office. If all these suggestions were put into practice, then it would be feasable to end the term restrictions on presidents, because it would ensure that $ would not play a deciding role in the process.
Submitted by CoachMagirk27 (user info) at 2004-07-10 03:45:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yeah! America is Fascist! It's an evil place where we have the right to vote! Where the people have a say in the government! Wait... isn't that democratic? You're just listening to all of the moronic Anti-Americans and their "propaganda". People in America are godamn lucky to live there and have the freedom to choose their own leaders and rules - yes they do have the freedom to choose. All of those idiots have too much time on their hands and don't apreciate the fact that America is a place of opprotunity, and a place where even the poor people can be fat. America is not fascist, and there is nothing wrong with patriotism. You know the definition of Fascism, good for you! Micheal Moore is an idiot. He is not a hero. You're so busy talking about propaganda, when all you listen to is his. If you knew all of the facts outside of what Mr. Moore and other Anti-Americans tell you, you wouldn't have a stupid post. You are so fucking stupid, and it makes me really sad to know that people in America don't know how lucky they are. You have no idea what life is like in other countries, while people like Istaros and I do. Fuck you for being so stupid. Be thankful.
Love,
Peepoepoewitz
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2004-07-10 03:07:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I am from Kentucky..."
Well, that pretty much closes it. You don't feel a need to point out any other of your life experiences other than those you went through in Kentucky, probably because you've never been out of the damn state, much less the country. Basically, that makes a HUGE difference because if you have *no* first-hand long-term experience with people who are NOT from the country, you can't really claim to have an objective view. You're either swayed by the right(as the people you are lambasting are) or equally swayed by the left's reactionary mindset. You're the worst kind of critic there is: one who speaks from ignorance and inexperience.
"and for the record, they are clean socks....albeit covered in gasoline."
Of course they're clean; that's the kind of scent you prefer, is it not?
For the record, I am neither from Pluto nor a newborn. I have, however, spent the majority of my life in European and African countries. The difference between you and me, though, is that I actually know not only what I'm talking about, but also what you are TRYING to talk about, whereas you're just lost all around.
Like I said, this post is full of exagerrated claims and factual errors. Do you really need me to make a fucking list and humiliate you, or are you going to back off and nobly decide to stop choking yourself with this guy's dick?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:53:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Also, Todd, kudos for the reference to "With God on Our Side" by Bob Dylan.
"This, of course, is very dangerous because people can be easily swayed to think that their nation would never do anything "ungodly"."
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:49:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Damien Cross <damienx.at.earthlink.net> at 2004-07-10 02:47:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
electrictoothsyndrome, before you let this guy cum in your mouth tell me,
you don't by chance have a bumpersticker on your car that says something
along the lines of "Rush is right!" do you?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:47:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
By the way, this post WILL make most heated.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:46:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I am from Kentucky, and for the record, they are clean socks....albeit covered in gasoline. What fucking difference does it make. My question to YOU might be, "are you from fucking Pluto?" or maybe I should ask "were you born yesterday?" because it would take at least one of these being a yes for you not to see that this guy is right.
Submitted by Damien Cross <DamienX.at.earthlink.net> at 2004-07-10 02:45:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You left out one important pseudo-statistic:
1) This is the most transparent & content-lacking post
Americans have ever had the misfortune of viewing.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:25:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Where are you from, you sock-sniffing cuntrag?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:22:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Tell you what, Istaros, you can put your fat lips ON my ass and SUCK IT, cause this post is the fucking truth
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:21:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
One more +2 for good measure, because i know I'll have to counterbalance the idiot who -2s this just because he has yet to realize that his father and mother are not always right, and that there is really no Santa Clause.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:21:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
electrictoothsyndrome, it's time to pull your lips out of this guy's ass. You're coming off as needy and controllable, especially seeing as this post makes several exaggerated and flat-out erronous claims.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:16:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Because this post deserves all the +2's I can give it, and because it needs to be read by EVERYONE, because it's the TRUTH. You need to write a book about this my friend.
I remember growing up with that classic egocentriscm that I suspect ALL PEOPLE experience in the beginning of their lives, wherein we think that our language, in my case English, is the REAL language and everyone else is just misinformed or have yet to convert to the real way. (I think this is far more common than anyone wants to admit.) I guess I always thought for some reason they would eventually accept that English was the right was to speak and come around. Some people grow out of this, and some don't. The people that think that America can do no wrong never grew up, and, I suppose still think everyone will one day speak English...which might happen one day yet.
The sad part is that individualism, and artistic merit, and culture at large will be the casualties in our race to Capitalize the globe, which is the unconscious and unspoken goal of the US...to make every nation on the globe JUST LIKE US.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:13:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"There has never been a Communist state. That's right. Never been a Communist state."
Sorry, but that's not true. Most tribal societies, both nomadic and sedentary, operate under communist ideals. There's never been a major, multicultural communist nation-state with the ability to impact global economics, but that's not really what you said.
downerSTAIN: Anarchism is actually considered even further right-wing than fascism, as it is a concept of absolute individual authority.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:07:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Wouldn't the extreme left actually be Anarchy? Good post, over used subject.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:06:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/38031
This post is about the stupidity of some of the ancient Hebrew Laws outlined in the Bible. They too, were fascists, only their totalitarian dictator was God...
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:04:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/37702
Not so eloquent, yet on the same track...
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2004-07-10 02:01:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is the most accurate depiction of the dysfunctional country in which i live that I have EVER FUCKING READ!!! EVER!!! I has always amazed me how we as Americans place such high value on our freedom, but we are always having to defend it from enemies within. If we truly had freedom of speech, there would be no mention of this freedom WHATSOEVER! We wouldn't constantly have to fight for it as artists. Basically it all stems from this holier-than-thou attitude fostered by our religious EXTREMIST CHRISTIANS! If Jesus hadn't taught that refraining from violence is the best course of action, just imagine how bad we'd be. America started out wrong. We basically committed mass genocide and theivery upon the Native Americans. The whole idea of manifest destiny is still glorified in our history classes...much to my shame. GREAT FUCKING POST...BRAVO!
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 01:53:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Need sleep... i'll be back to pointlessly argue tomorrow...
I know, I can't wait either.
p.s. FUCK OFF CUBERAT!!!! AHAHAHA
sleep. now. go. bye.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 01:16:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yeah, I figured the title was to get people on the page. Can't go wrong with that one.
No, I'm not full of shit.
It's the idiots who upheld affirmative action who keep this country going backwards.
Piss off, I'm more tired than a fourteen year old prostitute that just gave head for 8 hours straight.
Submitted by incanbloodlord (user info) at 2004-07-10 01:11:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
uh, and also; gibberish is full of shit. hehe, it's people like him that keep this country moving backwards.
Submitted by incanbloodlord (user info) at 2004-07-10 01:09:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Right on, assbag. You kick ass.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 01:08:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The title was mainly to get people onto the page... I do think these things are a problem in America but I don't think Americans are a bunch a Nazis. I hope that comes out somewhat in the article. I was mostly trying to explain why other people are drawing such conclustions. Just punch in Fascism America into a Google search...
Americans are good people from what I've seen. I've travelled all over there. I'm going for a shock level here. Maybe make a few people think outside the box.
It's a bit harsh, but how else can I earn most hated Ubersite guy???
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 01:00:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm gonna have to agree with that last quote to an extent though.
Republicans take money from big business.
Democrats take money from tree huggers.
They're both slaves to the oil companies.
Those groups influence decisions by use of $$.
Might wanna look up Taft's Dollar diplomacy by the way. Just for further background information.
It's a little thing called lobbying.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:56:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And yes, I do make grammatical errors and typos here and there.
That comes from not sleeping for two days.
Try not to bitch, okay?
If i say 'is' instead of 'in'... for the love of God people, let it go. We don't work for maddox.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:53:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh, and Bush doesn't "own" all three branches of the government:
-Obviously he "owns" the executive, considering he is the FUCKING EXECUTIVE BRANCH
-The Republicans in Congress were DEMOCRATICALLY elected and not all of them bow down and kiss Bush's feet. Nope, I guess he doesn't own it there.
-Have you seen the decisions made is the judicial branch in the past year? Obviously not.
If you're going to call Americans fascists, at least get the facts straight.
Not listening to bullshit liberal (or conservative for that matter) talk radio helps.
Die.
Submitted by TheToddfather (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:51:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Onward fascists!!
Submitted by 01011010 (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:48:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Wow.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:46:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 for even making a slight reference to that abomination "Gods and Generals" and the fact that you're using the title from a shitty movie to prove a shitty point.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:45:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 for thinking Michael Moore is brave.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:37:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 just for mentioning Al Franken
You don't know anything.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-07-10 00:35:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Wow. Just shut the fuck up.
See 'For Future Reference' for more details.