Men of Uber, let's kick some ass! (6143 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 0.15 on 250 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by SundanceKid (View user info) at 2004-08-03 20:12:37 EDT
Fellas and burley ladies of Uber, I have read Lojope's post "Path of Thorns" http://www.ubersite.com/m/40524
twice today, and each time I have read it, I got so mad at the lowlife prick bastard for raping her that I have to leave the room as not to punch my computer and break it.
I've been upset on Uber before. There are several of you I've wanted to bitchslap, but this time I want hurt someone as bad as they hurt Lojope. I want blood. I want his balls removed from his body. There is no reason to violate a woman, especially someone who is as fine a person as she is.
Violence probably isn't the answer, but if any of you have a way to sabotage this fucker and ruin his life, I'm more than willing to participate. If someone cuts off his dick and sends it to me, I will send you a check for $1000. His balls= $500 each nut.
I think with all of us spread out across the US and the world we could make this guys life a living hell.
Fair is fair, and if the judicial system let him off, then there is a need to punish this man for what he did. I will not rest until this man's balls are displayed over Lojope's mantle.
User Reviews
Submitted by The_Great_Tom (user info) at 2004-12-19 08:17:19 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
You fell for it.
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-10 02:46:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Why don't we just let this topic be? It's not doing anything for anyone.
Submitted by Id (user info) at 2004-08-09 14:00:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is quite enough.
While I'm sure your intentions are noble, the method is far from it.
Violence begets violence, hate begets hate, and when it is all said and done, will the beating of this man change ANYTHING??!! Will lojope regain her virginity? Will this man come to regret what he has done to her? I'll this may accomplish is the momentary satisfaction of viewing his bleeding and broken body.
And then what?
Vengence begets vengence. He will come after you. You will go after him again. And while all this plays out, lojope will stand by watching this unfold with horror. Do you truly believe this is what she wants? No. That was not the point of her post. It is to celebrate her triumpth, and to give us the oppurtunity to recognize the incredible person that she is.
To hurt and maim in her name is to set all to the flame. And for what? Justice? Fine. But then what happens when justice is brought upon you.
I make this appeal: I know lojope personally: she would not have you, billSBchamps, or anyone do this to her rapist. So if you just joking, so be it. But if not....I hope your breif moment of triumph is worth it.
Submitted by BoogieFevuh (user info) at 2004-08-09 04:23:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BillsSBChamps (user info) at 2004-08-08 12:51:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
I already know where this piece of filth attends college and have some friends there. I fully intend to go down there in the next six weeks and beat him like the animal he is.
--------------------
Mind enlightening the rest of us? Sharing is caring.
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-09 03:58:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Slut ot no slut, leave people the hell alone.
Submitted by sosjtb1999 (user info) at 2004-08-08 20:22:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
These are the men of uber, you're not going to kick anyone's ass. http://www.ubersite.com/cgi-bin/message_get.cgi?message=1060401579831817548
Submitted by Screwyouall (user info) at 2004-08-08 18:54:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
noble effort to try to kick a complete strangers ass, but i doubt your call to arms will get far
dont get me wrong, my heart goes out to lojope for the pain and suffering she has endured, and for the strength she has shown....
Submitted by BillsSBChamps (user info) at 2004-08-08 12:51:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I already know where this piece of filth attends college and have some friends there. I fully intend to go down there in the next six weeks and beat him like the animal he is.
Submitted by Sambuca310 (user info) at 2004-08-07 21:17:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
To PatheticCapitalistFuck: first off - shutup, second - if someone cuts off his cock and or balls he wont be able to rape anyone else.
Submitted by PatheticCapitalistFuck (user info) at 2004-08-07 16:05:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Sad that this made most heated and has way too many hits, but what can you do.
Volunteering to randomly beat the shit out of someone you don't know because of a story told by someone you don't know. Hmmmm...
Why not project your anger into something productive like volunteering at a Rape Crisis center. Then you'll realize that short of killing rapists, kicking the shit out of them only reinforces their need to feel in control of something and causes them to seek more outlets for that need (i.e. more raping or further escalation into mutilations, torture, etc).
Submitted by BoogieFevuh (user info) at 2004-08-07 15:42:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'd fight a rapist I didn't know. It's almost happened before.
Submitted by Ryo (user info) at 2004-08-07 03:35:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'd do it in a heart beat, but that will not happen.
Lojope, my feelings go out to you.
You are a brilliant writer and person, and I would not curse what happend to you on my worst enemy.
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2004-08-06 20:55:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
stay below the shit flinging so as to not ruin your G.Q. style for the night, is what i meant
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2004-08-06 20:53:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ergo, good call on you Mate! Stay below the shut flinging and won't stain your "GQ" attire.
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2004-08-06 20:51:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
thats quite the sane way to look at things, Nator, however people find that after the "warnings" of personal violent pay back, or even the hint of revenge through personal harm, there is STILL a good chance of true, reciprocation to occur
Submitted by Nator (user info) at 2004-08-06 20:18:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No, if I did that I would probably end up in prison. Together with rapists.
Submitted by Ashlee <@work> at 2004-08-06 19:56:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Aww, someone's bitter because I handed them their ass. You know, self pity really isn't very healthy.
Did it maybe occur to you that having a few hours free once or twice a week does not always mean that someone has, as you appear to, time to sit around on Uber for hours daily and keep up with all the stupid petty drama that's been going on around here? Not that I'd care to if I -did- have the time. Just thought you should know that one day off doesn't exactly give me enough time to sit around and ass-grab with the rest of you. Loser.
Submitted by slowlyrotting (user info) at 2004-08-06 17:02:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
grow up. get over it. suck my balls.
be lucky i dont rape YOUR ass bitch.
Submitted by tomato-soup at 2004-08-06 16:41:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
lojope is a slut
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2004-08-06 16:29:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
i agree with that part, loren re: the vigilanties.
I've found for the most part though, that a lot of rapists were mild mannered or even timid. I was in a place once for a while,there were between 110-150 young sexual offenders (along with other juvenile offenders of a non sexual nature, such as myself) and mostly they did little more than make me laugh at them, or sickened by their antics and deviant sexual behavior and talk. (For example, a "normal" 17 year old boy would see a beautiful, half clothed woman on television and say "Nice ass, or "I'd like to fuck her", or "she's beautiful," while I heard things from the sex offenders like "I'm goin to the bathroom to fuck Britney (whack it), or man I would love to tie THAT bitch down")
As for adult male rapists, can't say I have met many of those, but from my perspective, the kids were for the most part indeed *sick* (with emphasis placed) ,cowardly individuals who relished in the small semblance of control over something in life garnered by their unspeakable deeds.
A large portion of them would not even admit that's what they were in for, but since sexual offenders all got a 15 month minimum sentence, with no early release, we ALL knew who was who.
+1 for loren telling it like it is. No one in their right mind would commit an act of violence against someone they didn't know, in defense of a stranger over the internet. And the machismo put off by the ones who claim they will, is just a little unbecoming of a civilized adult.
Submitted by IsawBoobs (user info) at 2004-08-06 15:38:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
post his name adress and personal information and ill be all over the bastard, as long as i dont need to go far.
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-08-06 15:35:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by redzone -
"I agree with you man, we should do something."
----------------
Give me a break. What are YOU going to do?
You know what I envisioned after reading that? A skinny little guy sitting on a couch typing with one hand, feet up on the coffee table, munching on a bag of chips... "yeah man.... we should 'do' something... *munch, munch... burp*"
SHOULDA COULDA WOULDA.
Such nonsense to pretend you would lift a finger even if by some nil chance in hell you were face to face with a violent rapist.
The post is a sweet enough gesture of support, but what a crock of shit, really.
People, try to keep it real, because saying you'll do something just makes me embarrassed for you and your world of pretend.
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2004-08-06 15:20:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 17:00:11 (#)
Ranking: 0
Listen, dick. I don't have time to keep up with UberPassions
-----------------------------------------------------------
But, you have time to make this exact same statement across several posts? Hmm. Thank God for you, after being in the Navy for five years, I need someone to pity.
Submitted by redzone (user info) at 2004-08-06 13:19:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with you man, we should do something. Coincidentally I was just listing to "Dance with tha devil"-Immortal technique. This song talks about a street punk who forsakes his Mother for a life of crime. He met some heavy hitters hooked up with them. his test to be part of their crew was to rape a random girl, then kill her. Horrible as it may sound, this street punk went through with it. I'm not gunna say everything that happened in the song, because its quite nasty, but in the end instead of killing the girl that he raped. He killed himself.
You should check out that song it has a good meaning
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-06 10:13:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Violence Against Women - Australia Says No
(authorised by the Australian Liberal Party, Canberra).
Some new add campaign about rape and other things that involve women. He's an old bastard, Howard, but a smart one who knows what really goes on.
The add talks about how if you have been raped or sexually assaulted you must TALK TO SOMEONE. It acknowledges that most legitimate rapes go unreported, so there is definitely a problem in that area.
And to all of those Americans who think this is crap - FUCK OFF OUT OF AUSTRALIAN POLITICS!!!
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-08-06 10:03:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Adereterial - not that I was talking to you, but where did I say it never happened?
It's probably before your time (and most here), but I was right there to read the headline "Tawana Lied"
Look up the Tawana Brawley (sp) case, Wappingers Falls NY in the mid 80s if you're curious.
I am aware it happens, but when you compare it to legitimate cases of rape (THAT WE HEARD OF) the scales are so unbalanced that it's pathetic to try to use a few cases are false accusation as half of an argument.
You all need to think of all the girls and women who are raped and never report it.
It's a chauvinistic, immature, male-child thing to take a side against violence against women with such a small argument. Davy Jones is behaving just that way. I know I shouldn't be surprised. Everything out of him is completely one-sided and self-serving.
To those who know me better, *ahem* Hidden, do you think that you need to tell me that these things happen? Of course they do. I'm not asleep, really. Nor am I closed minded. I'm simply tired of people letting a few twisted individuals' actions bring down an entire group by insinuating all women are capable of falsely accusing men of rape out of some sick quest for revenge or whatfuckingever reason they'd do it.
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-06 09:44:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
There's one thing I dislike a great deal; that's disrespect towards women. I'm autistic, so I like to have a universal rule for dealing with people;
Mutual Respect - give it where it is given.
Rape is one of the worst breaches of mutual respect. I may be being biased, whatever you wish to throw at me (someone always does), but then when someone has the guts to share their experiences with potentially the whole world and is smashed by everybody for doing so - that can feel pretty damn bad. Traumatic experiences are best talked about, and I would probably go down the whole list of replies here if I had the time and debunked all of them, but I am too tired (midnight now). Maybe lojope is looking for sympathy.
And maybe, just maybe, sympathy is due....
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-06 09:33:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No problem, Walsareck, I tend to forget that the internet connect people from all countries, not just my own.
And thank you.
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-06 09:25:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Sorry about my misclariffication, lojo. However, many of you should shutup - the only two people who can honestly say whether it was rape or not are Lojope - and the rapist. Unless one of you is the rapist, stop saying she's a whore.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-06 09:22:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
AH yes, well Austrailian law would be different. Course, I don't live there, nor have I ever been there, so I don't know it.
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-06 09:14:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I use Australian law, and, unlike US law, we make ALLOWANCES FOR EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES. I've spoken to a lawyer, and just saying NO is not rape; it is sexual assault. The theory is that if you do not have sex with the man, you must RESIST. If you are incapable, then that is an EXTREME circumstance. We don't have "degrees" in Aus; Rape is Rape, Assault is Assault, murder is murder.
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-08-06 09:04:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-08-05 16:46:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
DavyJones - you're being a total ass as usual.
"Many times" women falsely accuse men and "ruin their lives?"
???
Really now.
Name some of these "many times" you ignorant fucking asshole. Try backing up the garbage you leak out of your pathetic mouth.
Do you have any concept of what a woman has to go through to actually manage to get a man convicted of rape - even when it's TRUE?? Do you really think it would be something she could do in a phone call to the cops? Think about the time investment alone.
Are you seriously this stupid? (That was rhetorical.)
Damnit. I hate you more and more with each passing day for your stupidity alone.
----------------------------------
Loren, as Hidden said below, it does happen. I've seen it happen a couple of times:
1, a friend of my boyfriend whom I know fairly well was falsly accused of rape. He admitted consensual sex but nothing more. There was no evidence of trauma or bruising etc. The case went to court, he was acquitted and the girl charged with perjury, after she confessed to making it all up as her parents found out about a one night stand and didn't approve. All well and good? No. He wanted (and was training) to be a teacher. He can no longer be a teacher, as there is this on permanent record, his dreams and hopes destroyed. The girl was never tried for her crime.
2, a famous case now, a well known British actor, poet and comedian, Craig Charles, was accused of plying his ex girlfriend with drugs and then raping her (with a friend). It turned out she had concocted this allegation after reading an article detailing a similar case in one of those trashy magazines. He was acquitted and has managed to put his life back together - none the less, the woman concerned wasn't tried. He was also attacked in prison by another inmate whilst awaiting trial.
Now, Loren, is that enough proof for you? Or do you have such a rose-tinted view of women that you can't accept we're possible of doing such things?
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-06 08:53:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Walsareck, that is a completely false statement, legally speaking.
Rape, just like any other crime is categorized in degrees. 1st degree rape is sex without consent. There doesn't have to be any struggle at all. If she says no, and he has sex with him anyway, it is rape in the 1st degree.
2nd degree rape is the use of threats, but little to no struggle. If she says no and he says "if you don't I'll kill you" and then she gives in, that's rape in the second degree.
Rape in the 3rd degree is rape by violent force. This is where the struggle comes in. He beats the shit out of her and has sex with her while she struggles and fights back. There has to be evidence of a fight by way of bruising, bleeding etc etc.
I am not positive where sex with someone who is unable to consent, and invalid or metally retarded person falls, but I believe it's in the second degree area. It might even be the third.
(as always, you can switch the pronouns, because, yes, women do rape men. Also, men rape men sometimes and women rape women. So the pronouns can be arranged any way you like.)
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-08-06 05:00:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So Walsareck, if a man has sex with a woman who is unable to move (say she's disabled, injured etc), it is not rape, even if she says no? What if she is unable to speak?
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-06 01:59:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It is not regarded as a rape unless there is a degree of force involved, to show that there was resistance.
The law is that if you are between 12 and 16 (non-inclusive), it is OK to fuck each other, as long as it is consentual. 12 and under it is rape, 16 and over and you can go sleeping with anyone older than you.
This is Australian legalities fot you, it is almost the same in America.
Submitted by RouteTwo (user info) at 2004-08-05 23:51:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 for lojope mentioning "boondock saints"...
Submitted by CDizzle (user info) at 2004-08-05 22:50:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I would call you an idiot, but that would stating the obvious
lets throw up a 1 so people can't call me a heartless bastard
Submitted by lucid (user info) at 2004-08-05 20:21:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This post raped me of my time!
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-08-05 18:07:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-08-05 16:46:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
DavyJones - you're being a total ass as usual.
"Many times" women falsely accuse men and "ruin their lives?"
???
Really now.
Name some of these "many times" you ignorant fucking asshole. Try backing up the garbage you leak out of your pathetic mouth.
Do you have any concept of what a woman has to go through to actually manage to get a man convicted of rape - even when it's TRUE?? Do you really think it would be something she could do in a phone call to the cops? Think about the time investment alone.
Are you seriously this stupid? (That was rhetorical.)
Damnit. I hate you more and more with each passing day for your stupidity alone.
================================================================================
Loren, it can happen very easily. you know i love ya, but i've seen it. the military isn't like the civilian world, and when a girl said a guy raped her, a very upstanding, good man, he was kicked out of the military, and now every employer that he goes to knows that he got kicked out of the military for rape charges. problem is, he never touched her. she wanted him, and he rejected her, so she resorted to rape accuasations out of spite. i lived in the dorms with this girl. she was pure, viscious evil. she even threatened me on more than one occassion because i called her a pathetic slut for what she did to a good man. i know the civilian world is different. i know it's very hard to get a rapist convicted. the problem with false accuasations, though, is that a man has to deal with that stigma that has been placed over his head, and trust me, rapists aren't a very popular group of people.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 17:46:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Actually, I was pretty much just patronizing you. Looks like it worked. Bitch.
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-08-05 17:44:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-08-05 16:46:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
DavyJones - you're being a total ass as usual.
"Many times" women falsely accuse men and "ruin their lives?"
???
Really now.
Name some of these "many times" you ignorant fucking asshole. Try backing up the garbage you leak out of your pathetic mouth.
Do you have any concept of what a woman has to go through to actually manage to get a man convicted of rape - even when it's TRUE?? Do you really think it would be something she could do in a phone call to the cops? Think about the time investment alone.
Are you seriously this stupid? (That was rhetorical.)
Damnit. I hate you more and more with each passing day for your stupidity alone.
-----------------------------------------
Even though I'm not really in this, my dad's a lawyer and he's told me of probably 3 or 4 cases where the girl lied about being raped. It's not really that uncommon, people take advantage of the system and of people's goodness, and it sucks, but it's just a part of life.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-05 17:43:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I actually waited around just to see that kind of response from you Ashlee. Thank you, you made my day. Too predictable, insanely immature, but at least it amuses me. I guess accepting the fact that you are never going to get through to some people means you are wrong, and in every verbal sparring someone is right and someone is wrong, and it's impossible to agree to disagree. /sarcasm
"YES! He finally decided to leave this post!! Neener neener neener, I'm right he's wrong, hahahahahaha"
-what I think you think.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 17:29:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Awww. Wittwe Davy is mad that I'm right and he's wrong. Poor baby.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-05 17:17:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Loren - I know you hate me, but you can't honestly be naive enough to think things like this never happen? Maybe you should read some of the reviews, how about the one from Circe, where a guy was put in jail from being set up, and found innocent 14 years later, or the one where the Air Force guy who never even kissed the girl had his life turned upside down. I personally have seen it happen twice.
Ashlee - if you don't have enough time to keep up with everything that is being said, why is it you think you have enough knowledge to comment at all? Be fully aware of what is being talked about, or shut the fuck up, it isn't a hard concept. We were talking about rape, not statutory rape, as I have said repeatedly, but you can't quite seem to get up to speed with this, so I think I will just move to ignore you as the inconsequential insect your intellect represents.
Kaelic - I think you are right, I'm moving along too. It's amazing how many people will champion the honor of someone they have never met, even when their honor isn't being called into question.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 17:00:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Listen, dick. I don't have time to keep up with UberPassions, i.e. the 60something responses on this thread. When you say something like what you said on a post about a certain person who has been attacked with no clarification that it's NOT about them, you leave it open to the interpretation that you are talking about the person in question. In this case, it's Lojope. I pointed out that you think it's ok to get upset about a "statutory" rape (which, imho is not actually rape if the minor is old enough to make the decision rationally, and at 14, you ARE unless you're just super-immature) that was in all other ways consentual and then accuse someone who was ACTUALLY raped of lying, or deciding after the fact that she wished she hadn't screwed the guy (again, this was my perfectly reasonable interpretation of what you said).
See, even Loren has taken notice of your idiocy. Just give up, you're wrong, you fucking douche.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2004-08-05 16:59:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
R. Kelly for president.
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-08-05 16:46:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
DavyJones - you're being a total ass as usual.
"Many times" women falsely accuse men and "ruin their lives?"
???
Really now.
Name some of these "many times" you ignorant fucking asshole. Try backing up the garbage you leak out of your pathetic mouth.
Do you have any concept of what a woman has to go through to actually manage to get a man convicted of rape - even when it's TRUE?? Do you really think it would be something she could do in a phone call to the cops? Think about the time investment alone.
Are you seriously this stupid? (That was rhetorical.)
Damnit. I hate you more and more with each passing day for your stupidity alone.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-05 16:43:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If by fantasy world you mean, a world where all guys are respectable and girls aren't sluts, yes.
But why is that a bad thing? Are you really so desperate to get laid that you can't wait for a girl who REALLY wants to fuck you? That you have to take what you can get? That you have to play around in the gray area because that's the only way you'll get any?
Seriously, can you not go without sex for a night/weekend/week or two? Because that's pretty sad.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2004-08-05 16:28:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"People, the fact is, you shouldn't be playing ANYWHERE NEAR the line. Stay COMPLETELY in the white, and I promise you will have far less false accusations to worry about. Have sex with eager, happy, excited-to-be-with-you women, who are ACTIVELY CONSENTING the whole time. Don't sleep with women who have boyfriends, or who seem at all unsure that they want to do it. "
Yeah, that works out great .... in fantasy world.
This post has become a bunch of bullshit. Most of the really good points I, and other people have made, have been glossed over, and ignored, and I don't feel like trying to rehash them all so that Lojope, and any other ignorant person can just disregard them because they don't like it.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-05 14:40:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Basically, it's not that I don't understand what you are saying Ashlee (reading comprehension) it's just that what you are saying is fucking moronic.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-05 14:38:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Let's have a quick recap of what happened, shall we?
You made a big show, and basically implied that lojope's attack was not actual rape, but a decision that she hadn't REALLY wanted to have sex after the fact (at least, that was my interpretation of your words). I remembered you making a huge deal over your sister sleeping with some guy, and your (most likely wrong) decision that she hadn't really wanted to or didn't know what she was doing or some other bullshit like that. I then pointed out your hypocrisy in that you think it's allright for your sister to decide she didn't really want to have sex after she had (although I'm sure she knew exactly what she was doing at the time) and it was ALL THE GUY'S FAULT, but it's disgusting when other women do the same thing. An assertion which, in my opinion, was misplaced, because I don't see WHERE you could have gotten the idea that that's what happened in lojope's situation, after having read anything she's ever written.
There now, I've explained it in fairly easy to understand words, feel better now?
________________________________________________________________________
I haven't said anything at all about Lo's particular case. I am simply making a point that often women abuse their ability to cry rape. In my sisters case I made a big deal because she is 14, and he was 19. This is clearly statutory rape no matter what my sister wanted. Did my sister want to have sex? She has never said otherwise. Do I feel she is capable of making that decision with a 19 year old? No, and neither does the law. You are fucking stupid and not worth arguing with if you can't see the difference between STATUTORY RAPE, and RAPE. These are 2 very different crimes. Personally, as cold as it sounds, I don't give a flying fuck if Lo was or wasn't raped. Most likely she was, it's a shame, but hey, we all have bad shit happen to us. I was taking issue with her implication of when consent can and cannot be given/taken away, and women's ability to misuse this. How my stance on a woman's ability to ruin a man's life falsely relates to me being upset my sister was statutorily raped are related is beyond me. The correlation only exists in your ignorance.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-05 14:19:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I live in NY, and I have never heard of a 14 year old getting charged with anything for fucking another 14 year old. Each state has it's own set of statitory rape laws,though, and I certainly on't know them all. However, I am pretty sure a 20 something year old sleeping with a drunk 14 year old would be statitory rape in all states. Not positive, but pretty sure.
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2004-08-05 14:12:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
what state do you live in, lojope? here, i have met boys who were 14 and 15 and had been charged with lewd and lascivious acts for fucking a 14 year old girlfriend of their's, back when i was a minor going to juvey.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 14:06:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I really wish you'd work on reading comprehension before spouting off, jackass.
Let's have a quick recap of what happened, shall we?
You made a big show, and basically implied that lojope's attack was not actual rape, but a decision that she hadn't REALLY wanted to have sex after the fact (at least, that was my interpretation of your words). I remembered you making a huge deal over your sister sleeping with some guy, and your (most likely wrong) decision that she hadn't really wanted to or didn't know what she was doing or some other bullshit like that. I then pointed out your hypocrisy in that you think it's allright for your sister to decide she didn't really want to have sex after she had (although I'm sure she knew exactly what she was doing at the time) and it was ALL THE GUY'S FAULT, but it's disgusting when other women do the same thing. An assertion which, in my opinion, was misplaced, because I don't see WHERE you could have gotten the idea that that's what happened in lojope's situation, after having read anything she's ever written.
There now, I've explained it in fairly easy to understand words, feel better now?
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:48:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Hypocrite, baseword, hypocrisy:
hy·poc·ri·sy Audio pronunciation of "hypocrisy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
You say a 14 year old can give a 19 year old consent.
I say that women often abuse their ability to cry rape.
You say I am a hypocrite.
I say you are a fucking dumbass. My sister never said anything about rape, ever. Hopefully this step by step analysis will prevent you from making yourself look so stupid in the future.
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:42:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
LOOK! IN THE SKY! Is it a bird turd? Is it a waste dump from a plane? NO! IT'S:
CAPTAIN SAVEAHOE!!!!
Faster than a mouse wheel! More powerful than a Pentium 2 with MMX technology! The champion of hit-whores everywhere! YAY!
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:40:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Davy, the thing in your sister's situation was not her age, but his. 14 year olds ARE old enough to consent technically, but NOT with someone over 18. It's the age DIFFERENCE that was the problem, not her actual age. But statitory rape has a completely different set of rules than sexual assault rape.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:35:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Ashlee, I believe Lo said she was 18, a healthy step above 14, and my sister never claimed she was raped. In fact to this day while she does feel kind of ashamed for being a party slut, she feels nothing underhanded occurred at all. Maybe you should 1) learn to read, 2) step away from this thread because you are in over your head, and 3) learn what hypocrit means, and that it has no dashes in it.
A 14 year old is old enough to give consent? Yea, ok, that can be your opinion, but don't try and pass it off as fact, because I am sure quite a few people will disagree. It is obvious to anyone with half a mind this example isn't even related to what we were talking about, although I did know at some point some ignorant person was going to bring it up.
Submitted by BleedTheSky (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:37:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
GUY: Oh yeah, baby. You're so good.
GIRL: (Moaning)
GUY: Oh yeah, I think I'm gonna cum!
GIRL: Huh? No, wait! STOP! STOP! RAPE!
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:33:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Lojope - you're more than welcome.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:23:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I was done witht his post yesterday because I was getting too upset. I have recollected myself and am ready to debate again if you want to, Charred, but don't go over the same old arguyments that have been said a hundred times already.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:09:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Davy, I was fourteen once, so were you. Teenagers may be stupid, but they're perfectly capeable of consenting to sex. Especially in this day and age. And I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Lojo was in high school when her attack happened. So she was close to your sister's age. Now what does that make you? Come on, say it with me now: a hyp-o-crite. Good!
Submitted by Charred (user info) at 2004-08-05 10:30:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What happened to "I'm done with this post"?
Why do you return to it to hear some more of your own pen, yet leave a plethora of arguments, points, questions and comments unanswered?
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-05 10:03:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
PS~ Adereterial knows what they are talking about. Thank you for saying that.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-05 10:02:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Spiral_Abraxis (user info) at 2004-08-05 00:33:11 (#)
Ranking: 0
"..step away from the post altogether, because it was upsetting.."
If this is an upsetting topic for you then why do you consistently choose to hurl it kicking and screaming into the limelight?
----------------------------------------
This is the most brilliant thing I have heard someone say about this topic. You say that rape is the worse and most traumatic thing that has ever happened to you, yet you have made countless posts about it before. You have described to us everything about it, and we are complete strangers to you.
Don't bash Kaelic for saying you want attention, because in reality Lojo, you do. You might think that you are putting this up here for another purpose, but the only thing I see here is that you want sympathy. End of story.
~*~*~*~*~*~
Ok. The topic is not what upset me. In fact, the rape is something I NEED to talk about. So much about being raped is embarrassing and shameful. It makes you want to keep it a secret. You don't want people toknow the gory details, you don't even want them to know it happened to you. All you want to do is keep it locked up inside you and bury it away forever.
But you can't do that. Because if you, do it will fester inside you and wreak havoc on your pyche. You have to learn that it is not something you should be ashamed of, because you did nothing wrong. The blame lies completely with the rapist, and he is the one who should be ashamed. You have to FORCE yourself to start talking, because if you don't you will NEVER break the chains.
You have to learn to open your mouth and tell people what happened, because sometimes that is the way someone else will be protected. And sometimes, that is the way someone else will heal.
Healing from a sexual assault is unlike anything else. And in reality, the only people who can ever know what it's like are other survivors. And getting to know other survivors is crucial. Because the struggles that result from being raped don't make sense. And people who haven't been there just can't get it. Why couldn't I go into WalMart for months? Don't know. It's a trigger. Don't always understand them. But I have a friend who can't drive down a certain street. Why? Don't know, it's a trigger. But we both know what that's like. Before I met her, I thought I was crazy. Now I know I'm not the only one.
Why did I write that post? Because it is what came out when I sat down at my computer. Because that is what was on my mind. Because that is what I needed to get down in words.
Why did I post it? Partially because I refuse to allow shame and fear to keep me silent. Because the only way to defeat rape in our society as a whole is to TALK about it. To make sure everyone is educated. To make sure boys know that it's never ok. To make sure girls know they have the right to say no. To make sure everyone know that rape is not a crime you can get away with.
Also because I hoped that hearing/reading about someone who was well on their way to healing, would be encouraging to someone who has been assaulted. If a woman is raped every 3 seconds, and 1 in 4 women will be raped in their lifetime, then on a site of 10,000+ people, there are bound to be others like me. Hearing about someone who was able to reclaim sex and have healthy intimate relationships sure would have encouraged me a few years ago.
Why did this thread upset me? Because it was an eye opener for me. I was shocked and upset by how many men really don't know what "consent" means. And how dangerous that is. Shocked that anyone would really presume to KNOW that a girl meant yes when she said no. Disappointed that people aren't better educated, they they are so willing to try to find the gray area. That they want to set up camp in that gray spot and say "haha! this is ok, because it's not REALLY across the line".
People, the fact is, you shouldn't be playing ANYWHERE NEAR the line. Stay COMPLETELY in the white, and I promise you will have far less false accusations to worry about. Have sex with eager, happy, excited-to-be-with-you women, who are ACTIVELY CONSENTING the whole time. Don't sleep with women who have boyfriends, or who seem at all unsure that they want to do it.
Do I think women falsely accuse men of rape? Of course I do. And I think those women should serve jail sentences akin to that of a rapist. Do I think that women have sex and change their mind and cry rape? Sure. People in general can be horrible, and willing to do anything to get the blame off of them when something wrong has been done, and women are no exception. Do I think it happens a lot? Not nearly as often as a rapist gets off scott free.
Does any of that change the fact that no means no? NO.
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2004-08-05 09:00:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That's bullshit. There is consent there ... Persuaded him to use a condom? Did not scream for help? Let him in my room, and my body responded? This is consent.
___________________
Kaelic, you are a moron.
Persuaded him to use a condom: Several cases have been tried and several men convicted of rape even after a woman persuaded her attacker to use a condom, one case, I believe, by lying that she was HIV positive. Their presence of mind was applauded by the Judges concerned, the men were convicted and jailed.
Did not scream for help: Shock does funny things to your reactions and to your presence of mind. How many people are unable to talk during and after traumatic experiences? Not screaming in no way implies consent. Put yourself in the shoes of a woman, being raped at knifepoint/gunpoint, being told not to scream or he'll kill you. Will you scream?
Let him in my room: I let the electrician in my room, does that imply consent to sex? I let the decorator in, does that mean he has the right to have sex with me. No, it does not. By saying 'Come in,' or opening the door, or gesturing, I say 'you have permission to enter this room.' It does NOT mean 'You can have sex with me if you like.'
My body responded: sexual response is essentially a reflex action, much like your leg kicking when your knee is knocked. Our control over it is limited. How many times have you been sexually aroused, however slightly, when you really didn't want to be?
Basically, if a woman says no, at any point, a man MUST stop, irregardless of his relationship to that woman, her actions up to that point. If he does not, it is rape. If a woman does not scream, but says 'please don't,' it is rape. If she says nothing, but pushes him away, it is rape. If he tries to remove her clothing, and she resists, it is rape. If she is having sex with a boyfriend, and asks him to stop, he must stop, or it is rape.
On the other hand, women who make false rape allegations should be treated as harshly as those men guilty of rape. I've seen both sides of the story.
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2004-08-05 06:02:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hawk:
well said.
Submitted by Zeccs (user info) at 2004-08-05 05:46:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The first thing you can do to solve any problem is to stop smoking so much pcp.
Submitted by A-Daamage (user info) at 2004-08-05 05:40:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Some day, I will have my Convicted-Rapist Correctional Room approved by the government for use in all prisons. It will consist of a 7-foot long, 4-foot wide, 4-foot tall plexiglass case with a 2-inch wide hole drilled in the top. The rapist will be strapped to the top of this case with his penis hanging through the hole. After securing him tightly to the case, thousands of mosquitoes will be released into the case through a side port. Perhaps you can visualize what will happen next. The rape victim will be allowed to watch if she so desires. After the mosquitoes get their fill, the case will be filled with water along with a load of candiru fish. The rapist will have been ordered to drink 3 glasses of water before the process begins, so that when he finally urinates, a candiru will snake its way up his urethra and open it's umbrella-like gills where it will lodge permanantly. The only way to relieve the pain will be to amputate as it is impossible to remove the fish without damaging any tissue in the process.
Sound good, Lojo?
Submitted by Walsareck (user info) at 2004-08-05 05:15:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
NONE of you know the facts, NONE of you know how any of this sort of thing makes a person feel, so be silent and stop pissing Lojope off.
And the only way you can know the REAL facts is whether you are lojope or the rapist. Unless one of you is the rapist, let's believe lojope.
FUCK THIS POST!!!
(one of my first -2's, that's saying something!!!)
Submitted by hawk (user info) at 2004-08-05 04:55:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Wow. Great to read all of this debate over a very sensitive and important topic. Just wanted to throw my 1 1/2 cents into the ring:
1) On the matter of intent, i.e. Kaelic's "Wrong. Intentions are what matters, not words." Well, in the moral sense of the matter, intent is probably the most important consideration. Law, at least the U.S. system, is not based on morals. In order for the U.S. legal system to work, all evidence really must be black-and-white. Ergo, the use of precedent in legal cases. The problem with intent is that nobody can prove, as a matter of fact, a person's intent. The law, therefore, can only draw on actual actions and language. This is the main reason why the legal definition of "sexual assault" is based on what the woman says, rather than she means/intends/thinks/etc. p.s. I must warn that I am not a lawyer, but have read several cases on the foundations of the U.S. legal system.
2) Ultimately, as Lojope implied, much of the debate will ultimately come down to "he said/she said". As I would imagine for most cases of sexual assualt, there will primarily be first-person testimony from two people (obviously excluding the expert witnesses, doctors, police, etc.). And, from the legal perspective, it will come down to whether the woman, at any point during intimacy, said "no". Very difficult, and nearly impossible, to prove for a fact. This is why, as we see in the Kobe case, sexual assault cases often come down to state-of-mind and character witnesses - i.e. circumstantial evidence. Unfortunately, this is sort of a flaw in the legal mumbo-jumbo surrounding sexual assualt, as it shifts the focus of the case from the facts to opinion-based testimony.
3) I have a question for Lojope. Chipolatte mentioned the use of "consent forms". What is your opinion of this: a girl and guy start making out ... the guy, wanting to be safe, asks the girl to sign a consent form. She, in her right mind (i.e. not drunk, etc.) signs the form. Then, as the guy get a condom, puts it on, etc. After all this, the girl then says "no", but the guy continues to have sex with her. What are your thoughts about this (admittedly, a very unlikely scenario)?
Submitted by BleedTheSky (user info) at 2004-08-05 03:15:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/32526 - The medication one.
I'm really on a roll with the fuck ups.
Submitted by BleedTheSky (user info) at 2004-08-05 03:14:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oops.
The link after "I can see clearly now, the rain has gone" was supposed to be this one: http://www.ubersite.com/m/33485
Submitted by BleedTheSky (user info) at 2004-08-05 03:10:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Two words: Live Journal.
Getting raped must be the cool thing to do these days. Every girl is doing it. Want proof? Browse through Live Journal. To think that the aim of Lojope's post was anything other than attention is absurd. Her posts speak for themselves.
Damn it, I'm not beautiful? http://www.ubersite.com/m/35511
I used to cut myself. http://www.ubersite.com/m/35049
I can see clearly now, the rain has gone (photographic evidence). http://www.ubersite.com/m/34108
My apology for "flipping out" (SEE ALSO: Having a hissy fit). http://www.ubersite.com/m/34108
I take Medicine (not that anyone needs to know or gives a fuck)! http://www.ubersite.com/m/34108
A P03?/\/\ http://www.ubersite.com/m/32035
Seriosuly though. In searching through Lojo's posts I discovered that she sucks at not posting the same thing twice. If you all want to go with this bullshit, have a good time. As an alternative, sign into AOL and go into a gothic chat room. You'll meet PLENTY of "rape victims".
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-05 02:48:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Intelligent comment asshole, because we all know a child is capable of giving consent.
Submitted by Spiral_Abraxis (user info) at 2004-08-05 00:47:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 00:45:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-04 18:45:05 (#)
Ranking: -2
Since we are all pulling up stats without providing credible recources, I will leave you with one of my own. One girl every three seconds decides she doesn't want to have sex after the fact.
___________
Sort of like your sister, Davy?
---------------------
rofl
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2004-08-05 00:45:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-04 18:45:05 (#)
Ranking: -2
Since we are all pulling up stats without providing credible recources, I will leave you with one of my own. One girl every three seconds decides she doesn't want to have sex after the fact.
___________
Sort of like your sister, Davy?
Submitted by Spiral_Abraxis (user info) at 2004-08-05 00:33:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"..step away from the post altogether, because it was upsetting.."
If this is an upsetting topic for you then why do you consistently choose to hurl it kicking and screaming into the limelight?
----------------------------------------
This is the most brilliant thing I have heard someone say about this topic. You say that rape is the worse and most traumatic thing that has ever happened to you, yet you have made countless posts about it before. You have described to us everything about it, and we are complete strangers to you.
Don't bash Kaelic for saying you want attention, because in reality Lojo, you do. You might think that you are putting this up here for another purpose, but the only thing I see here is that you want sympathy. End of story.
Submitted by CodeBlue (user info) at 2004-08-04 21:24:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
It always amazed and dissapointed me how few rapists "dissapeared" after the men surrounding the victim get ahold of him...
Submitted by calbearspolo (user info) at 2004-08-04 20:25:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Nice thought, wrong execution.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-08-04 20:24:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i've seen both sides. i've seen men whose lives were ruined by women who cried rape and i've seen women whose lives were ruined by men who raped them. i think some of you have trouble seeing both sides.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-08-04 20:14:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
very well put charred.
Submitted by Charred (user info) at 2004-08-04 19:54:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"The blatant disregard and hatred for women being demonstrated in this post is gut wrenching"
I've looked through this thread again but there is nothing that comes close to disregard or hatred for women. This statement is absurd, just beause somebody doesn't adhere to your estimations on the subject it translates to "disregard and hatred for women"? At least your escape route is original, I suppose.
"..step away from the post altogether, because it was upsetting.."
If this is an upsetting topic for you then why do you consistently choose to hurl it kicking and screaming into the limelight?
"Your "points" were crap. Semantics are no way to win an argument."
His points were valid and they weren't entirely about semantics, either. When you have no refute your last resort is to declare an argument "crap" and unworthiy of a refute? Again, at least this is a original technique, I suppose.
"I don't have to prove anything to any of you."
Fine, then if that is the case just read the reviews, laugh if you feel the need, and then move on. At present you engage and challenge those reviews and ratings which does indeed imply you have something to prove. At least follow through. It's a matter of civility.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-04 19:53:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Kaelic...that was beautiful.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-04 19:48:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Interesting how you quote "points" when I clearly said comments. Remember, this "hatred for women" starts somewhere. I would bet a large amount of the males on this site have had first hand experience with a girl that cried rape. If not for themselves then for one of their buddies, or a buddies buddy, or a family member. I didn't just wake up today and decide, you know what, I think women lie about rape sometimes. Nope, I've seen a good, innocent persons life flipped upside down by a lame accusation. So have many others.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2004-08-04 19:44:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Can I say one word, Lojope? Pwned. That's what you and your argument had done to it. One could even say your argument on consent got raped.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 19:33:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I didn't pass over your comments specifically, Davy, or any of the others I haven't responded to. The fact is that this stupid shit got to be too much for me. The blatant disregard and hatred for women being demonstrated in this post is gut wrenching. I decided to practice a little self-care and step away from the post altogether, because it was upsetting and triggery for me to keep coming back over and over. So I left it alone the the rest of the day, coming back only now, when I saw your whiney little comment. Your "points" were crap. Semantics are no way to win an argument.
I'm done with this post. I don't have to prove anything to any of you.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2004-08-04 19:28:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think this post is seriously misjudged. I appreciate that your heart is in the right place, but this vigilante 'lets kick some ass!' response isn't helping anyone, to my mind.
The world can be a harsh place. The majority of us are going to be ripped apart at some point or another, some more than most. The only response to it is to fight. But not with fists. You stand up and say 'fuck you, I'll show you what I can do' and you strive for hapiness regardless of the hand you've been dealt. There is no revenge sweeter than looking someone in the eye, telling them you forgive them, and knowing that you're stronger than they are - that you can cope and they can't, that they can knock you down and you'll still hoist yourself back up, that you may bend but you'll never break.
Fucking this guy over would be a hollow victory. A bandaid on a severed leg. It might slow the bleeding for a while, but the limb would still be gone.
What you have to appreciate is that there are some deeds that are beyond punishment - no matter what violence or maliciousness you tip on the scale, it'll never balance it out. You can scream and rage and cry and it won't damage him, only yourself. You win by letting go, by moving on, by taking back control and not letting the bad in this world dictate your actions.
Action, rather than reaction.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-04 18:45:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I love how my comment gets blatantly passed over, because there is no way you can possibly say it's rape at that point. If you take that, and put it together with what Circe brought up the situation is clear. There is a double standard and it is all stacked against males.
Heres another scenario. Two people are having consensual sex, the female orgasms and decides after that she doesn't want to have sex, she already got what she wanted, and if he orgasms, EVEN IF WITHIN A 30 SECOND TIME FRAME, now she has been raped. Why is sex determined by the male orgasm? Why can any girl, slut, whore, etc, call rape whenever she feels like, without any proof aside from her word, and ruin a mans life? Like in a case below from the Air Force, 2 people can never have even had intercourse, but you drop that rape word and the guy is fucked. It is over, no matter what, for now on, you have a permanent "wonder if he did it" cloud over your head.
Don't get me wrong, I know rape happens, true rape, and I wish it didn't. It is easily the second worst crime, and I wouldn't mind TRUE rape being punishable much worse than it is now, but come on, 2%? Who do you think you are kidding?
Since we are all pulling up stats without providing credible recources, I will leave you with one of my own. One girl every three seconds decides she doesn't want to have sex after the fact.
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2004-08-04 13:08:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.ubersite.com/m/23475
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2004-08-04 12:53:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
yeah! no one hurts our sweet Lojo and gets away with it!!
Submitted by dategrape (user info) at 2004-08-04 12:10:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
yeah lojope, you lie about everything: the press calling that girl a slut, the "facts" about false reports in rape cases, you being raped.
Submitted by Charred (user info) at 2004-08-04 12:10:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Wrong, Kaelic. The stigma it carried for the victim is "SLUT!""
Funny then, that the stigma you enjoy here is the exact opposite extreme of that? You're too quick to sanctimony.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:57:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, and also ... find me one place, in any real news forum, where the writer calls the victim in the Kobe Bryant rapetrial a slut. I bet you can't find a single one ... because no journalist would be that callous. I doubt you can even find an editorial piece that calls her that. At best, you might find "promiscuous(sp)".
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:53:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't think that's the pervading view of rape victims. That girl is beintg called a slut because she banged a couple guys before and after Kobe. Let's face it, she kind of is one.
You're right, it's not your job to make me see --- just like it's also not your job to try and preach what -you- feel is consent, what the subtle dynamics of human sexual interaction should be, or any of these things.
Luckily, we live in the United States, where the government cares whether it's women get raped or not, and where it actively pursues and punishes to the best of it's abilities wrong doers who commit such crimes.
If your case really is true, and he got off unpunished, then you're in the minority, and that's sad. I don't know anything about your case, so I didn't hear a "not guilty" either way. I just said there is doubt in my mind.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:44:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Wrong, Kaelic. The stigma it carried for the victim is "SLUT!" Look at the Kobe Bryant trial, since you brought it up. That girl has been called a slut on national television a dozen times.
I will tell you, I got no sympathy. I don't feel like going into it, because I grow weary of this. Some people are blind, and it's not my job to make them see, no matter how much I want to.
And I am not looking for sympathy. My post, while it did have that reaction from some, was not about "poor me" or "look how shitty things are". If you read it, actually read it, you will see that it was a happy post. It was about me being able to overcome a set of shitty circumstances. I am a happy person. I need no sympathy. There is no reason to feel bad for me. I am in a wonderful place in my life.
As for this:
"I don't know what happened to you, Lojope. I don't know if you were raped, or if you had sex with this guy, and then decided you shouldn't have, or what. The fact that he beat the charge leads me to believe everything is not as it seems."
You just proved the point I made earlier:
"Even if you get a "case dismissed" instead of a "not guilty" everyone hears it as "not guilty"."
Lack of evidence doesn't mean lack of crime.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:26:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"But how damaging do you think it is for a woman who was raped to get no justice? I would say at least AS damaging as a man who was falsly accused, but I would say moreso."
Wrong. While rape is a horrible, humiliating thing, the stigma is carries for the victim is one of sympathy. Look at all the sympathy you've gotten just on Ubersite alone. I'm sure you get sympathy all the time. There are even funds that pay rape victim's to follow through with their cases (see the Kobe Bryant trial).
Now look at the plight of someone accused of rape, falsely (I'm sure it's a lot higher than 2%). Like Chipolatte and a few others said, he has to go through his life with a felony rape conviction. Even if he doesn't get convicted, he still has all of his friends, his family, wondering what really happened. It'd cause most people to relocate to another town or city, to escape that type of "fame". Who wants the infamy of being the local rapist who beat the charge?
I don't know what happened to you, Lojope. I don't know if you were raped, or if you had sex with this guy, and then decided you shouldn't have, or what. The fact that he beat the charge leads me to believe everything is not as it seems. Two sides to every story.
Not to mention the fact that you obviously have no appreciation for the weight of the word "rapist", seeing as you called me one. Have fun being the victim ... you have everyone else's sympathy.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:18:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
that's less than 12% of rapists being convicted. for those of you who can't do the math.
oh, who am i kidding. i just wanted to do the math. i'm seriously bored sometimes.
Submitted by hairycoo (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:16:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:37:37 (#)
Ranking: -1
You known what really bothers me about this? How blindly you are willing to believe someone who is a halfway decent writer on the internet
--------------------------------------------
That sums up my views on all of this.
----------------------------------------------
and with an extreme case of attention seeking personality disorder.
Submitted by Gnome (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:16:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
as much as 2% of men being falsely accused is horrible, i still think the figure lojo gave earlier is far worse
"A woman in America is sexually assaulted every three seconds. Less than half of them are reported to the police, and less than a quarter of the ones reported end in a conviction"
Submitted by Charred (user info) at 2004-08-04 11:07:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think rampant is an ideal choice of word, to be honest. I only choose it's strength to illustrate that me personally, as a man, am constantly aware of this danger in a plethora of social situations. I'm probably more paranoid than most but that's the point anyway. This sort of occurance is fairly rampant, in my opinion and experience.
As for "Rampant implies that more accusations are false than are true.." there is absolutely no such connotation there! All my choice of word claims is that "it's around a lot" and it is. It's important you bear in mind that not every accusation reaches legal discourse but even then, still retains a great deal of it's damage causing potential.
"But how damaging do you think it is for a woman who was raped to get no justice? I would say at least AS damaging as a man who was falsly accused, but I would say moreso."
I feel juxtaposing them in this manner is entirely inane. This is no competition on which is more damaging, Lojope . Besides, they bring different forms of damage and anguish that don't really correlate.
Etcetera - I am familiar with the procedures and finer details of the aftermath of rape and what is involved with filing rape charges, and even if I wasn't, I'm sure I'd have picked them up from one of several of your heart targetting pieces by now, you really needn't provide another here for me.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:59:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What would suck is to get charged for rape if you had sex with some drunk girl and then later she claimed she didn't consent. According to the law, if you are drunk, you can't consent. Well the problem there is what the fuck do you think people are doing when they go out to "hook up?" They drink and then have sex.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:50:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
As I said, Charred, there is no way to know for sure. ANd no, I didn't site sources because I don't feel like looking it up.
I agree that 2% is outrageous. It should be 0%. And women who are found guilty of false allegations of rape should be put in jail. No question. It is those woman who are making women like me lose the fight. Women who were actually raped can't win their cases because some women lie about it.
They are not rampant, however. That is a terrible word to use. Highly damaging? Absolutely. Rampant? Not even close. Rampant implies that more accusations are false than are true and that is ABSOLUTELY not the case.
But how damaging do you think it is for a woman who was raped to get no justice? I would say at least AS damaging as a man who was falsly accused, but I would say moreso.
When a woman is raped and wants to report it, she is forced to undergo a very invasive, very painful, very humiliating ordeal. What they have to do to you in the emergency room is horrible and grotesque. Then you have to tell the police what happened. In detail. Right down to every second, you have to tell them where he grabbed you, what he said, when and how he entered you. You have to decribe your genitals, and his, to a total stranger. Then you wait for an arrest. Then he gets out on bail. Then he gets to go around telling all your friends they you are a slut and a liar. Then you have to worry about facing him or accidently running into him in the grocery store or on the street for months while you wait for a trial. Then you have to walk into the trial and again face him, and again describe all the horrible details.
To go through all of that alone is extremely damaging. On top of the psychological and physical issues from the rape itself. And then to have him walk away a free man. The people who believed you at first start to doubt. Even if you get a "case dismissed" instead of a "not guilty" everyone hears it as not guilty.
When the trial doesn't end in a conviction, you lose your restraining order. So you walk out of the courtroom. The people who were supposed to help and protect you give you a shrug and a sorry. And you have to go back into the world, knowing that they whole town/city/whatever knows about the most horrible, shamefull thing that ever happened to you. That a room full of strangers got to see photos of your genitals as evidence and hear you tell all the gory details. That you could run into those people on the street and feel the shame build up all over again.
And then you know that you went through it all for nothing.
Because when you leave that courthouse, he can come right up to you and sneer and mock you, and you have no legal recourse.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:37:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
You known what really bothers me about this? How blindly you are willing to believe someone who is a halfway decent writer on the internet
--------------------------------------------
That sums up my views on all of this.
Submitted by MickGinny (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:36:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
just glancing over the replies, it seems that a major point is being missed.
although there is a problem with men being falsely accused for rape the bigger problem is the men who are accused and guilty dont you think?
Submitted by Charred (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:33:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Additionally, I find that 2% figure all kinds of outrageous.
False accusations of sexual assault on men are both rampant and highly damaging.
It is a danger that modern men must cope with and be aware of in many social situations so to see it played down is almost offensive - Especially having known men who's lives have been brought to pieces by such fabricated accusations.
Submitted by Charred (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:29:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Studies you have read? No sources to cite? What "studies"? How exactly can any one person or team of people ascertain just what percentage of made rape charges are false? What is the procedure for collecting such data? How do you find a rape charge to be false?
Sorry but that comment is worth precisely zit. Like most statistics but especially with regard to that one. I can only assume your intent is to play down my comment regarding falsely accused men? I can draw interesting reflections on the fact that this is the point you decide to jump on and what you try to achieve with your comments. Again with those undertones. Man devil, woman victim?
My other points don't warrant response?
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:27:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
actually, dont, the "say" should be there, im stupid.
Submitted by sebcharrot (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:27:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Lojo, 2% is really quite bad. OUt of every 100 rapists charged with rape, 2 are actually innocent? Not counting the "if she says no while we're having sex" scenario.
2 out of 100 is a terrible figure. It should be 2 out of every 10000, if at all.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:15:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ignore the word "say" down there, I have no idea where it came from.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:15:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
While it is impossible to know for sure, studies I have read say that about 2% of rape charges made are found to be false.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:05:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"How everything turns away quite leisurely from the disaster.
The ploughman may have heard the splash, the forsaken cry
But for him it was not an important failure, the sun shone as it had to,
on the white legs disappearing into the green sea
And the expensive delicate sailing ship, that must have seen something amazing
A boy falling from the sky.
Had somewhere to get to, and sailed calmly on"
Submitted by Charred (user info) at 2004-08-04 10:02:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"If she said yes right up until the sex began, and then she said no and he fucked her anyway, that's rape."
Lojope, I find this maxim for defining rape is not without it's holes.
I know victims of rape who have been too terrified to say "no" or even to scream out loud. Is it not rape in this situation?
I've engaged in sexual role-play of which part of the game involved saying "no". Is this rape?
These aren't loaded questions, the answers are obvious, but what I'm trying to convey is that you can't put such a fine point on it. The absence or presence of the words "no" or "stop" is by no means a sufficient yardstick in determining rape . No sometimes truly does mean yes (i.e. situation two).
Consent is a much larger grey area than you seem to be presenting here, I feel.
I also lament seeing statistics being brought into an otherwise astute discussion as statistics are spin.
"1 in 4 women will be victims of a sexual assualt"
I wonder how many in every 4 men will be victims of a fraudulent accusation of sexual assault? Something which is massively damaging to the individual on multiple levels, just like sexual assault.
I think the militant feminist undertones, as mentioned below, is much of why I react badly to some of your posts whilst the remaining majority of uber seem to heap praise upon them, I just haven't articulated it in that way. I do believe the right amount of cynicism to be a virtue.
Submitted by hairycoo (user info) at 2004-08-04 09:42:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
if a woman says stop, then it's probably coz your shit at it. Continuing is not an option so you'll have to pull out and wank in front of her before she either sucks you off or leaves.
Anal Rape is ok though. If she consented to vaginal sex, then the excuse of 'just because it hurts' if not a valid one. She just needs to be broken in and your actually doing her a favour by raping her.
Submitted by funk_boy (user info) at 2004-08-04 09:18:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What, the stop meaning stop thing?
My point is, I wouldn't want to continue fucking someone, if for whatever reason, they want to stop.
Who would?
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 09:18:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No, what is unreasonable is the idea that some boys have that they have ANY right to enter someone's body after that person told them not to.
Submitted by dategrape (user info) at 2004-08-04 09:12:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That is the kind of thinking that makes people question the validity of real rape cases. It is unreasonable and stupid.
Submitted by funk_boy (user info) at 2004-08-04 09:04:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Stop means stop, unless it doesn't mean stop.
Who want's to continue fucking someone who really doesn't want it. For whatever reason?
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 08:54:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes. If she says stop, you stop. Period.
Submitted by dategrape (user info) at 2004-08-04 08:53:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So you believe that if a girl has already given consent, and the guy has already started, after that point she can say stop and if he doesn't, that is rape?
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 08:31:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sorry I had to go to bed last night while people were still arguing, I didn't want to miss anything, but it was after 3am.
That being said...
Look, I am not saying the girl is always right. See the problem here is that you all are arguing a different thing that I am. You are arguing that girls falsly accuse. I don't deny it, though statistically it's a rarity. I am arguing thatmost guys and girls alike don't know the true definition of consent/rape.
And I don't care what anyone says. if what Kaelic described was true. If she said yes right up until the sex began, and then she said no and he fucked her anyway, that's rape. He could easily get arrested for that. Probably not go to jail, but most rapists don't.
See... this argument shows the very problem that rape victims have in getting convictions (and when I say that I mean true victims). There is no way to prove on way or the other. How do you prove she said no? How do you prove she didn't?
I oftent hink of that scene in Moulin Rouge during the song Roxanne. I wonder how many of you thought that the Duke was about to rape Satine. I mean, she was a prostitute. She went up to his room. She let him touch her and kiss her neck. But she said no. And he kept going. If that black dude hadn't punched him, he would have continued and it would have been rape. She said no. It didn't matter that all her actions up until that point were actions of consent. Consent in the past doesn't guarrentee consent in the future. Consent ten minutes ago doesn't mean consent right now. If she says no, THE ANSWER IS NO.
Basically what you guys seem to be saying is that a girl doesn't have the right to change her mind. Haha, what an oxy-moron, right?
Here is the facts. Even if you are dating her, even if you've been making out with her, even if she willingly took you to her room, even if she willingly removed clothing, EVEN IF you are both naked in her bed, EVEN IF you have condom already on your dick....
Even if all those things have happened. If she says no at that point, and you continue, that is a sexual assault, and if she could prove it, you could serve jail time for it.
And everyone keeps saying that it's a grey line. It's not. If you think a girl is saying no when she means yes, stop. If she really means no, she'll thank you. If she really means yes, she will tell you not to stop.
And for Christ's sake, if you aren't SURE that she's consenting, why don't you just ask her? Chances are, she'll be nearby, maybe even in the same room as you.
PS~ Circe no matter what there are extreme cases. That would be one of them. Of course that's rediculous. 30 seconds could be the amount of time it took for him to hear her and it register in his brain.
Submitted by dategrape (user info) at 2004-08-04 07:58:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yeah, that guy was WAY out of line.
Seriously though, I think it goes without saying that if you are given consent to enter, then halfway through the 'victim' asks you to stop, that is the time where you pull out and go for the moneyshot. Is that rape? No, you did what she asked.
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2004-08-04 07:49:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-08-04 01:43:36 (#)
Ranking: 0
Kaelic, I am not saying that a girl who has sex can cry rape afterwards and thats ok.
I am saying that is a girl says stop at anytime before or during intercourse, and you don't stop immediately, it is rape. It doesn't matter what she said yes to up until that point. She has the right to say no any time she wants. ANd if you dont stop RIGHT THEN it is rape.
____________________
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/s265381.htm
To sum up, this man continued to have sex for thirty seconds after consent was withdrawn. He was sent to jail for it.
Fourteen years later, it turns out that he was set up by his wife and by the woman in question. This man stood accused for fourteen years because of laws like that one.
It's a very fine line sometimes.
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-08-04 07:12:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Lojo says its rape if at any time before, or even during no is said. I just can't quite agree with this. DURING. If you have already willfully gone through foreplay, clothing removal, and intercourse for oh, lets say 3 minutes...and at that point you just decide you don't actually want to have sex. It is a little late. You already are. Lo, you are trying to say that if the guy doesn't immediately remove his penis at that point he is a scum rapist? Ooh, what if he cums at that moment, rape? This is fucking stupid, and you know it.
Submitted by Spookster (user info) at 2004-08-04 06:05:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
While it's good that you want retribution you must remember that "Violence begets viloence" (Or something like that).
I also believe in Karma.
He'll get his.
-Spookster
Submitted by sebcharrot (user info) at 2004-08-04 05:31:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with Gnome down at the very bottom. The emotion's the right one, and your anger is definitely justified, but it's obvious there's nothing we can do about it. I suppose the smartest, nay, wisest thing to do is to accept what happened, and accept that there must be reasons that he did that too. Accept he might even repent for it now. Accept that for the rest of our lives there will be many other incidents like this. I suppose the best fight we can put against these people is that we still breathe, still contribute to humanity. We're still here fuckers.
Though things like make me wish I had a punchbag.
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2004-08-04 04:34:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I would absolutely sign consent forms before sex. It's worth it. However, there's enough paperwork in the world.
Lojo isn't saying that women are always right. But from her perspective, her case was thrown out and it really did happen. From her bruises to her PTSD and written statements about the guy's mental/emotional instability (I kept him from jumping out a window to kill himself after he had a fight with his ex-girlfriend - I seriously regret my compassion now)nothing would convince these judges, police officers and attorneys. It was like they thought rape doesn't really exist. That sort of bullshit makes it really difficult to understand how a guy can be falsely convicted. On top of that, something that seriously bothers me, is that I've seen a lot more movies depicting false accusations than fair convictions, lending the impression that lying is more frequent than reality. Statistics show otherwise. Men who are falsely accused an