Detailed Debunk of Moore's F-911 (1547 hits)
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Submitted by acrog (View user info) at 2004-08-05 11:25:40 EDT
I know everyone is tired of discussing Farhenheit 911 but I found this very interesting.
It was compiled by a democrat, Dave Kopel.
"This essay comes from the Independence Institute, a thinktank
in Colorado which is founded on the principles of the
Declaration of Independence (www.independenceinstitute.
org). The author, Dave Kopel, is a life-long Democrat who
endorsed and voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. He supports
some but not all aspects of the current war on terror."
There is no real commentary in this article, just a small blurb at the top. It's just a list of falicies in the movie, 59 of them
please read the article before you reply.
here's the link: http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf
here is a sample:
by David Kopel
Independence Institute
If all you know is what the mainstream media tell you, then you
are living in a world of illusions. But you can't free your mind if
you merely replace one set of manipulative illusions with another
set of manipulative illusions. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a twisted,
dishonest, paranoid, and hateful fantasy. Learn the facts, and
make up your own mind.
The list below is a summary of a much longer report, which is
available for free at www.davekopel.org. The report also discusses
many other issues about the movie.
There are lots of good reasons why people have chosen to vote
against (or for) the re-election of George Bush. And there are
lots of good reasons why patriotic Americans have decided to
oppose (or support) the war in Iraq. One thing that all the good
reasons have in common is that they are based on facts. In a
democracy, we should try to convince our fellow citizens with
facts and logical reasoning. To manipulate people with frauds
and propaganda is to attack democracy itself.
1. The Gore "victory" rally isn't celebrating a Florida win. It
was held before the polls had even opened.
2. Like all the other networks, Fox mistakenly said that Gore
had won in Florida. The first network to retract the Florida
mistake was CBS, not Fox.
3. A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers
shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under
any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits.
4. Investigation by the Palm Beach Post and others shows
that race was not a reason why election officials mistakenly
disqualified some voters because they were incorrectly
thought to have felony convictions.
5. Bush's Presidency before 9/11 was not in serious trouble.
No commentator said that he looked like a lame-duck president.
Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax cut) and was
on the way to passing his #2 bill (the education bill). The
scene at the end of the movie in which Bush tells a rich audience
"I call you my base," was from an October 2000 charity
fund-raiser. Both Gore and Bush spoke at the fund-raiser
and, as is the custom at the fund-raiser, made fun of themselves.
6. "In his first eight months in office before September
11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the
Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time." As the
Washington Post reported, the figure includes weekends, and
includes time in "vacation locations" such as Camp David,
where Bush was working—as when he met with Tony Blair.
7. In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie),
Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He
called the press together to make a quick statement condemning
the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking
about attacks on the United States.
8. There is no evidence that Bush did not read the Aug. 6,
2001 Presidential Daily Briefing about al Qaeda.
9. He never claimed that the title's "vagueness" was an
excuse for not reading it.
10. The Briefing did not say "said that Osama bin Laden was
planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes." It said
that the FBI has "not been able to corroborate" such a threat.
11. The Saudis left the U.S. only after air travel was opened
for the general public.
12. According to Richard Clarke and the September 11
Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures,
and the decision went no higher in the chain of command.
13. Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit
discloses Clarke's decision to the audience. Clarke called the
Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a "mistake" by Moore.
14. Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11
Commission found that many Saudis were asked "detailed
questions" before being allowed to leave.
15. James Bath did not invest bin Laden family money
in Bush's energy company Arbusto. He invested his own
money.
...
User Reviews
Submitted by Fluffhead (user info) at 2004-08-05 15:30:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Thank you.
Submitted by Fluffhead (user info) at 2004-08-05 15:30:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by acrog (user info) at 2004-08-05 15:17:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-08-05 13:25:38 (#)
Ranking: -2
Why the fuck would you want to be stuck with that asshole for another four years?
Don't you have any love for freedom?
That's not what this post is about. It's not a push-for-Bush post.
I'm just giving you guys some information that I found that a Democrat compiled in regard to the propoganda movie that Moore put out.
I could get into that stuff, but I'll save that for a more appropriate thread.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-08-05 13:25:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Why the fuck would you want to be stuck with that asshole for another four years?
Don't you have any love for freedom?
Submitted by mjt7420 (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:17:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Moore is a propagandist. That's what he does. Everything he does skews the facts. He's not the only one; he just takes it farther than most people. And Bush did lie about WMDs.
Definition:1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Saying there was WMDs was a false statement. It was deliberately presented as being true.
Moore was just being an ass by using the word "lie" because it also means
2.Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
which I believe is not what Bush did. Of course the rest of the world was saying don't go to war because we don't know enough. We need to make sure before we go into WAR. This sentiment was completely disregarded by an administration that was determined to go to war with Iraq. I don't believe the people in charge of going to war understand what a terrible thing it is.
Submitted by whiskeyjack (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:11:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
very nice on preventing the facts, I haven't actually seen the movie yet but I've heard countless times that it was greatly edited to better show Moore's view just like bowling for columbine was.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:01:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Basically, anyone who has less than $1,000,000 and votes for Bush is like a chicken voting for Coloniel Sanders.
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No, some of us stand by the ideals that this country was founded upon. The U.S. was founded upon equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. I still believe that this is the way it should be. I don't have to see personal gain in order to support a position.
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2004-08-05 12:00:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
there is no doubt in my mind that micheal moore will say or do ANYTHING to hold up his anti-bush point of view. he wouldn't even admit to bill o'reilly that after 9/11 commission, bush didn't lie about WMD's. I'm sure a bunch of the liberal wack-jobs on here still hold that he was a liar about those, eh?
there's also no doubt in my mind who i'm going to vote for.
Submitted by acrog (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:58:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:46:51 (#)
Ranking: -2
Interesting, eh?
OMG I DEBUNKED MOORE! I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SMART!
I bet that the only reason everyone gets excited over disproving Moore is because someone else did it, and they want to be on the RIGHT side. I don't think there is right or wrong, but a bunch of idiots who think it'll make ANY difference if they expose Moore for "lying".
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At what point in my post did I say anything about ME disproving Moore? I had nothing to do with it.
I FOUND this and I thought it was interesting. I hadn't seen anyone lay it out like this.
I didn't post this to convert people. I'm don't know how accurate THIS stuff is.
It's just more ammunition for people to form thier own opinion with.
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:52:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Whether you belive Moore or not, the more we learn about what Bush and our Government did concerning 9/11 and Iraq, we find out that the Saudis, the oil industry, and Bush's cronies in business have and continue to get more perks and privaldges than the ordinary citizen, and at the expense of the ordinary citizen.
For example, how many people were stranded for days or longer after 9/11 even after the planes started flying again? But yet the Bin Ladens of all people get clearance and a government chartered plane to leave the country?! Not to mention that if you or I were responsible for the deaths of 3,000 people and our whole family tried to leave the country, dont you think that the government (especially under the current leadership) would detain and "question" (i.e. - probably torture, and probably detain without a warrant) them?
Not to mention that the Republicans have used 9/11 and the treat of terriorism to manipulate the American People. Moore is just fighting them by their own means.
Basically, anyone who has less than $1,000,000 and votes for Bush is like a chicken voting for Coloniel Sanders.
Submitted by Totally_useless (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:50:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The movie could've made <insert name here> look like an asshole. It was the way they presented the facts that skew the viewer.
I didn't need Michael Moore to tell me that Dubya needs an early retirement. I will vote for ANY democratic nominee, just to dethrone King Bush.
Any person who was swayed to a different side by this movie doesn't have the ability to think for him/herself.
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:46:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Interesting, eh?
OMG I DEBUNKED MOORE! I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SMART!
I bet that the only reason everyone gets excited over disproving Moore is because someone else did it, and they want to be on the RIGHT side. I don't think there is right or wrong, but a bunch of idiots who think it'll make ANY difference if they expose Moore for "lying".
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:41:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
adobe acrobat...aahhh! run for the hills!
Submitted by acrog (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:36:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Is there anyone who doesn't use propaganda in the US ? Anyone ? "
can't argue with that
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:34:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Is there anyone who doesn't use propaganda in the US ? Anyone ?
Submitted by ChristPuncher (user info) at 2004-08-05 11:26:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Aww man, i'm dissapointed
I thought this was going to be about a new secret plane
Dammit
GO BEARS WOO!!!