Is the feeling that music can give you cultural or is it deeper than that? (661 hits)
Category: Science & EnvironmentalRating: 1.28 on 29 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Scotsman (View user info) at 2004-08-31 06:19:44 EDT
I have a question that is starting to bug me so am asking you for your thoughts. Bear with me whilst I explain.
You know how certain types of music engender a certain feeling in a person i.e. spooky cello type music in a horror film or that high pitched violin thing that can put you on edge. Even a whole symphony that sparks feelings deep in you. Got that in your head......good.....
Now my question is that is this type of feeling part of the human psyche or is it a cultural thing. i.e. Are we taught that a bouncy nice tune means happiness and light by out culture or is it something deeper.
I am wondering if you played some segments of music to say an Aborigini that had no contact with the West (probably none left but you get the idea) and asked his/her opinion whether they would come up with the same answers as us.
Mibbes the wrong crowd to ask this question too but I am curious to hear peoples thoughts on this.
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Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-09-01 05:02:18 EDT (#)
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Hmmmm....I do get what you are saying. It was quite a large generalised question. I have been given many answers to this one. One minute I think that one thing is true and then someone comes up with a counter arguement. Really not convinced either way. Someone did say that culture and instinct have parts to play and I think that is the probably the answer.
On another note I think it is cool with this site that there are people out there getting loaded whilst I am sitting here pretending to work....Go World!
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2004-09-01 04:28:24 EDT (#)
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I think that it's all up to the individual. It all depends on what you concentrate on.
For instance: A certain song may have a heavy contrast between the melody and the percussion. The melody is light and soothing, while the percussion is heavy and energetic. If you concentrate on the percussion, you will want to dance to it, throw your body around, and go crazy. However, if you concentrate onto the melody, you will want to kick back, drink a beer, and smoke a cigarette.
It's the same with different genres. Some people might hear one song a certain way, and another person will hear something completely different. I think that there are certain elements to music that remain constant, and that music can certainly project the same 'image', if you will.
But there will always be that one person who says, "Well, I heard the song THIS way...."
As I said: It's all up to the individual. While music may be a part of human culture, even an American might have a different response to 'American' music. In essence, your question is making music entirely too general.
Let's put this into perspective: Have you ever been to a concert? If so, who was playing? What was your reaction? More specifically, were you dancing around and going nuts at this concert?
Now let's say you were to go to your room and listen to this same band, and all of your favorite songs by this band. Would you still jump around your room, crashing into any and all nearby objects?
Most likely, no, you wouldn't. In fact, the music you're listening to might seem duller and not quite as awesome as when you saw the band live. The point here is that an individual's reaction to music can be dependant on the individual's surroundings, mood, and countless other variables.
But the one 'constant' in this equation is that music touches us on some emotional level. No matter the reaction we may get from music, there is still a reaction. And that, my friend, is what makes music so deep and unique. We aren't touched by music because everybody else experiences a reaction. It is something much deeper.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have another beer. I'm not quite drunk enough yet.
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-09-01 03:47:21 EDT (#)
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Tee:
Thank you for your answer. Especially as you were coming from a position of knowledge that I just don't have.
Midnight: Yeah I remember when they played Ghostbusters in a nightclub and I went mental.....stupid I know....mibbes I was just drunk.
Submitted by Midnight_Laydee (user info) at 2004-08-31 16:54:30 EDT (#)
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I think everyone's pretty much said everything I'd say but I just wanted to add that Radio 1 played the Star Wars Theme tune t'other day and I just had to turn it up loud and da-da-da-dahhh-daaahhhhh-da-da-da-dahh-daaahhh along with it, it had me smiling for ages afterwards!
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2004-08-31 14:31:22 EDT (#)
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Really good question, and the answer is "I don't know."
I would think I had a clue, but then I start thinking about the differences between "western" and "Eastern" music, and I lose any thought other than "It must be cultural."
To me traditional eastern music sounds like someone just dropped an armload of instruments on the ground and called it a song. I just hear spontaneously clanging cymbols and non-melodious flutes or whatever, it doesn't even sound like MUSIC, let alone convey an emotion. SO without the basic understanding of HOW eastern music works, I am not even able to form the most basic response to it.
I took a "philosophy of music" course where we read lots of different philosophers' and musicians' (Plato, Aristotle, Stravisnky, and others I can't remember) thoughts about what "good" music was supposed to convey. The final exam was a list of musical selections that we were to listen to and figure out how that song fit into the theories we had read. THe only thing I really remember was that hardly anyone in the class agreed about anything regarding any of the songs.
It would seem to indicate that even less than a cultural thing, music is wholely subjective. At least when you try to analyze it intellectually.
Submitted by causeican (user info) at 2004-08-31 14:19:47 EDT (#)
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scotsmen where kilts so they can take it up the ass
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 13:23:29 EDT (#)
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That was a fantastic answer. Thank you. Some good points for me to think about.
Submitted by RouteTwo (user info) at 2004-08-31 13:08:51 EDT (#)
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interesting topic. 10 to 1 i'd say cultural.
Submitted by jack11058 (user info) at 2004-08-31 13:07:56 EDT (#)
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Good post. I'm no scot, but Amazing Grace on bagpipes always makes me tear up. Why? I'm enjoying the other responses by more knowledgable folks.
Submitted by RideJohnnyRide (user info) at 2004-08-31 12:59:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is a great post. Here are my thoughts:
Almost every society has some sort of music, be it that of the most advanced 1st world country or a small tribe in africa. I think there is something very primal and raw about the rhythm and pulse of music. One could compare the beat of a drum to the beat of our hearts. While some musical "instincts" are purely cultural, some of it has to be ingrained.
Take Mozart, for example. He began composing at age 5. He wrote symphonies before his 10th birthday. This could not have been all culturally gleaned. There is a deep human drive for self expression, brought about by our unique self awareness. I think that urge is the "ingrained" element of human musicality. I think that the association of different types of sounds with different moods, (for example a major chord is happier than a minor chord, a diminished chord is suspenseful,) is cultural. In india I beleve they use a 17 tone scale, while we westerners use a 12 tone scale. In china I think the traditional scale is 5 notes. So to western ears, a morunful indian song would not sound mournful.
Wow I rambled. Did anyone follow that AT ALL? I think my point was 1 element of music is definitately a part of us, and one elemet is cultural.
Sorry.
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 11:50:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So are we all speaking the same language when it comes to the language of music? Does a slow cello mean spookiness to someone who has never heard or seen a cello before?
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-08-31 10:46:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Music is more a language than a way to make cultural impressions. Sure a slow cello playing in a minor key is going to sound spooky, because it is meant to sound spooky using the language of music.
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 09:38:01 EDT (#)
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~Thanks for answering my question Shay.
Submitted by Shay (user info) at 2004-08-31 08:46:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What an important question.
Submitted by Kent_Weirdo (user info) at 2004-08-31 08:46:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Well, everyone pretty much said what I was going to, so I guess that I'll go choke the weasel now.
...Then after the weasel's dead, I'll beat the meat.
...And after it's tender, I'll go flog the dolphin.
...Then after the dolphin is knocked out, I'll masturbate.
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2004-08-31 08:35:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
When my son was two, he heard me playing some piece of fluff in a minor key on the piano. He tried to close the lid of the piano because it was 'sad music.' I think that certain notes or themes or arrangements are felt instinctively.
How that works, I have no clue at all. It's a fascinating question, and well raised.
Submitted by WhatTheHell (user info) at 2004-08-31 08:21:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Yes
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 08:18:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There is probably no "right" answer. I am just curious about what people think. UInfortuanatly I don't think I'll get too many replies from people with very little exposure to modern life.
Submitted by Hairsphincter (user info) at 2004-08-31 08:14:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think there may be an element of art emulating life emulating art.
We know our emotional cues, so music was written to stimulate them, and then these cues became learned concepts which are more regularly used, more precicely used to stimulate emotion.
Then again, I have no fucking idea. Good question, though.
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 08:05:39 EDT (#)
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Hmmm...that is a good point Apollo.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2004-08-31 07:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think it is deeper than culture, babies respond to soothing music (mobiles etc).
however I know fuck all about this.
Submitted by Sirous (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:46:46 EDT (#)
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I would say it is more in context than the actual music. Yet it all depends on the person and mood that he or she is in. Some music may make some people happy, others sad.
Although a few classical composers knew how to invoke certain feelings out of the music that they wrote.
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:45:56 EDT (#)
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Hmmm...The Pavlov's bell thing does ring true (sorry) However spooky music must have been spooky first in order that they thought that would go well with a particular scene in a film.
Mibbes I'll play some music to my wee sister and ask her thoughts on it.
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:43:01 EDT (#)
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Good reply! Especially for mentioning The Trooper!
My thoughts are that certin paces of music and certin instruments are definetly in built as you put it. Things like drums definelty spark some kind of primevel excitement. i.e. I love the massed Scottish pipe bands but not so much for the bagpipes but for the drums.
It is the more sophisticated music that I wonder if it sparks the same feelings in different cultures. A good example might be the theme tune to Star Wars. To me that intitial music is amazing.
Submitted by Shank (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:42:25 EDT (#)
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Music is under my 5 pillars of culture, growing he would associate certain sounds with certain events. Think Pavlov everytime the bell rang the dog came. We've grown up watching Psycho and when we hear that music, so when we see or hear one without the ohter it doesn't seem right and/or envokes the feelings we associate with it. Thus he search for similarities and associate them, he would connect more with tribal world music than he would with say Metallica. But would he prefer Brit. Or X-tina we may never know. Culture has a definate impact upon it, but if you showed it to a younger person they would have less to associate it with and would be more inclined to like it, older people would have more to compare it with and would have a higher chance to like it. Thus, experience & longevity work their ways into this philosophy. This is a questoin along the lines of Nature v. Nurture. Only you can conclude your own conclusions though. Good luck chap.
Submitted by Banga3386 (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:33:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It is more probable that it is built into us, and even then I can't say built. For example black is dark, white is light, that is just how it is. Anyone can tell you that a song about love and puppies is a lot happier than "Entrails Dripping from a Virgin's Cunt" by Cannibal Corpse.
A better question would be what makes you happy: dark music or happy music and why do you think that is?
I enjoy all types of lighter poppy music, I love the Corrs even. But dark, heavy, black metal tickles a certain funny bone and that is what truly relaxes and makes me happy. I'm no shitty goth/dark brooding/asshole but songs about death and war (Maiden's "The Trooper") and even the depressing "Look on Down From the Bridge" by Mazzy Star (the mellowest band ever) get me all kinds of excited and make me happy. Why this is so I don't know. Maybe it is because anger, depression, and sadness are more exciting emotions than just happiness and love. A lot of the negative music is about the positive being lost and thus fighting for it, occasionally getting it back. That to me is more interesting than any boy band "love you, need you" nonsense. Although groups like Boys 2 Men were all about true desire and trying to get back the woman they loved and lost. They were hardcore.
One would think that the positive would be more interesting since that side is always the most easily lost. But in the same respect the negative may be the more interesting since it is always there and is never fully explored, giving us more and more to write and sing about.
What is your take on it?
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:30:37 EDT (#)
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Yeah circus music is freaky as are clowns but would a person outwith our culture get that spooked feeling with the horror music stuff.
Well before movies came out people were making stories with music that would scare the crap out of you. i.e. Tam o Shanter.
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:29:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think we associate slow, hollow music with creepy stuff because its what id traditionaly used in horror films. Althogh, everytime I hear that damn circus music, I get the heebie jeebies.
Submitted by Scotsman (user info) at 2004-08-31 06:21:37 EDT (#)
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Give me your thought people.