Iraq: from Bad to Worse (1373 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 0.24 on 98 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Judoka (View user info) at 2004-09-16 12:23:52 EDT
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e0214956-074f-11d9-9672-00000e2511c8,ft_acl=.html?uuid=e0214956-074f-11d9-9672-00000e2511c8&ft_acl=
The president has no excuse for not knowing the disaster that his conduct of the war has unleashed, as his own internal assessment has been bleak. (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/16/politics/16intel.html?hp) But he refuses to acknowledge reality - perhaps the most dangerous characteristic in a war-president. At this rate, it won't matter that John Kerry seems unable to make the case against the president. The shambles that this president has created in Iraq war will do it for him.
You could try to shift the blame to Rumsfeld but ultimately GWB is responsible for the war and its consequences. Even more galling than the war (which I was against from the beginning, but not strongly) itself is the fact that no one in the administration is being held accountable. You could argue Tenet but lets face it this was a neo con war and no prominate neo con was held responsible. If America is a company and GWB the CEO, why would the "board" keep this guy on?
User Reviews
Submitted by NotNormal (user info) at 2004-10-05 10:55:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Shaddup
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-20 14:05:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I've read a worrying report that Britain is reducing its troop levels in Iraq as a sign that everything is going well. Maybe the folks at Downing Street haven't read the papers recently. This should do wonders for the 'stability' of the region. Just when you think that the situation in Iraq couldn't get any worse.
I don't think that the deaths of Iraqis are America's fault, no more than 9/11 was Bush's fault. But when you invade a country, depose its dictator, disband its army and take responsibility for its security, you are responsible for its security. Sucks don't it. Bush administration officials don't seem to understand the concept of responsibility. To make it very plain, the authorities are responsible when citizens cannot live with any measurable degree of physical security. In fact, it's the first responsibility of any governing body. Read Hobbes. Also read Hobbes to see what happens once confidence in order collapses, when the people don't know who in charge, when insufficient force is deployed to keep civil order, and on and on and on. We either have to ramp up our forces, retake Fallujah and Ramadi, which would involve quite a bit of bloodshed on both sides. And simultaneously redouble our faltering efforts to rebuild the Iraqi army - or we can run like a bitch and leave a new terror-state behind. Those are the options. Bush has to tell us which before November 2. I'll bet any amount of money that he won't articulate a coherent vision before the election.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-18 13:28:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The "grown ups table"?
Are you fucking serious?
Oh, and I never said you are pathetic, just that your lackluster insults are.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-18 13:16:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Im pathetic? Nice try kid. Just excuse yourself from the grown ups table.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-18 12:39:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Come on now, this is getting pathetic.
Even after the great examples set by the rest of Ubersite, one would think you would be capable of producing a half decent insult for all to enjoy and laugh about (myself included).
"It's done you no good"
Ooooh, watch out, Judoka is bringing out the big guns now. I think I pissed myself in fear after that last onslaught of offensiveness. No, really, I did.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-18 08:09:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I only used part of your comment because I couldnt bear dealing with the rest of your drivel. I was afraid that if I reproduced your comment in its entirety a black hole of self important stupidity would form, I would be sucked in and lost forever amoung the drooling mouth breathers such as yourself.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-17 21:49:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-17 08:10:54 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:38:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
So I went off to college...
---------------------------------
Its done you no good
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So when I got to the college I realized Judoka is a fucking bitch.
Let me tell my story jackass. And what the fuck is up with only taking part of my comment in your response? Don't like the fact that I insulted the high and mighty teacher's union?
Boo hoo.
And yes, I am drunk. Bitch.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:37:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
1.21,
You could be right about the conventions. I don't know. It is just that I had to change channels to avoid the DNC. Then when the RNC was starting, it was on pbs. I actually watched very little of either. At least for this election year I have already decided who I am voting for.
God help us either way until 2008.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:35:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I see the problem with the middle east as: we either do not enough or do too much. nobody will be happy with what we are doing. We might as well try to create a stable country. The problem is, is that most of the world doesn't want to help. They don't want to get their hands dirty. Or, like Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc, they have a vested interest in keeping Iraq undemocratic.
Submitted by 1Point21Gigawatts (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:35:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Maybe it's because I live in NY, and the supposed terror attacks were supposed to be here. Whatever it was, GWB really managed to overshadow the DNC in my region, and that really aggravated me. Naturally, the RNC was unavoidable when it was here - every newspaper from Newsday to NYTimes front paged it every day.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:31:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
1.21
No I don't think that kerry and crew are really ignorant. But I don't believe that he has any solutions either.
And I saw a lot more on the DNC than I did on the RNC. Hell, most of the RNC wasn't even on primetime.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:28:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
oh and hidden,
great point about us stealing the indians' land. moron
Their HOLY LAND? wtf? are you serious? It is also the christian's and the jew's holy land. Some Arabs are not going to be content until every christian and jew is dead or out of the middle east. it isn't just "their" land. many cultures and relegions live there. Does a country that is 85% arab have the right to order around the other 15%? Because that is what they want to do.
Submitted by 1Point21Gigawatts (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:07:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-17 15:45:44 (#)
Ranking: -2
hidden you are an idiot.
if we don't help other countries, they hate us for not helping them.
if we do help other countries, they hate us for interfering.
I despair for our country if your ignorant side manages to win the election.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Runninginplace -
You seriously think the Kerry side is ignorant? You can't possibly believe that to be true. That's the most inane statement I've ever heard dude. You know I respect you on this site, so I know even you don't think what you said is true.
You use the word "help." I think there's a big difference between the word "help" and "kill everyone in" and "send troops because of pecuniary reasons to" and "invade so we can finish our father's business and line our pockets with cash in." GWB obviously has the wool pulled over the eyes of many Americans. It's simple scare tactics.
Who is ignorant?
The media is controlled by Bush. Notice the lack of media coverage of the Dem Natl Conv? You know why? Bush timed his little stunt about "high terror alert" due to those bullshit reports about impending attacks on buildings. He flooded the media with some bullshit, and of course during the Rep Natl Conv, everything went off without a hitch.
I have a very meager political background, but if you put me and Bush on television in a debate (instead of Kerry, who needs to be more assertive) I would wipe the floor with him and become President myself.
Submitted by knucklesnelson (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:01:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fuck bush, and fuck you to runninginplace. Hell even your name sounds republican.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-17 15:45:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
hidden you are an idiot.
if we don't help other countries, they hate us for not helping them.
if we do help other countries, they hate us for interfering.
I despair for our country if your ignorant side manages to win the election.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-17 12:04:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
AlwaysanEagle yes
Submitted by AlwaysAnEagle (user info) at 2004-09-17 08:54:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I wish I had caught this earlier, but good job, my side of the argument!
I do, however have a vaguely creepy question that I ask now in a completely non-stalkeresque manner...Judoka, were you in Dupont Circle last Sunday around 6 o'clock by the Metro? I was walking home from work and I could swear I passed you en route to the Q Street side of the Metro. Although I could have hallucinated it. Which introduces a whole other set of issues.
Submitted by hamilton (user info) at 2004-09-17 08:39:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I was more talking about the treatment of U.S soldiers in those countries, and how these countries were 'evil' for doing that. But when the big guy does it, who cares?
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-17 08:10:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:38:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
So I went off to college...
Its done you no good
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:18:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by hamilton (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:42:31 (#)
Ranking: 2
(skip some stuff)
...
...
...
...
Liberation: American soldiers shooting dehydrated Iraqi's in the chest. That sounds familiar.
Vietnam?
Japan?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wait, uh... Japan?
I mean sure, I get the Vietnam thing. But come on now, Japan? We won that war, obviously we wouldn't be held responsible for war crimes, you ignorant fuck. That's like saying we should give back the land to the damned redskins because we were "insensitive" to their way of life. Screw everyone, the USA rules!!!!! WOOOOOO!!!!!
Submitted by hamilton (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:42:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I wish that I was hidden's kid.
What do you say? I can learn.
To everyone else in here: Bush sent people to Iraq for two reasons. To 'liberate' the people and to find WMD.
Liberation: American soldiers shooting dehydrated Iraqi's in the chest. That sounds familiar.
Vietnam?
Japan?
Nah, it can't be. These are justifiable war crimes because the most powerful government ordered them. Of course...
WMD: I have more WMD's in my dirty laundry. And even if Iraq had some, mine would be more powerful.
To sum it up: Declaring war on terrorists is like building a house in sand, and then trying to keep it out of your house by going outside and sweeping it off the beach. If you spent some money on better doors, you'd do a lot better.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:38:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
So when I was at the war protest I saw some of my teachers there.
They were like "You should become a teacher so you can educate the youth of America and then we'll never go to war and free millions from the tyrannical grip of a crazed despot ever again!"
And I was like "Great idea! I've always wanted to have a union telling me who to vote for!"
So I went off to college...
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:28:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No.
Submitted by Rainer (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:28:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:50:10 (#)
Ranking: -2
Seeing as how none of our planes have been hijacked recently and none of our children have been slain by terrorists, uh, sorry, insurgents, I'd say we are doing something right.
-------------------
Because all terrorists use planes to further their cause.
Submitted by NoahsArk (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:18:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
hidden101, judoka, loki, you are 3 of my favorite uberusers.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:46:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:05:41 (#)
Ranking: 0
Today I was walking along the road when I saw some hippies.
They were like "Bush is evil. 1000 soldiers died in Iraq!"
Stop polluting my thread moron.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:05:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Today I was walking along the road when I saw some hippies.
They were like "Bush is evil. 1000 soldiers died in Iraq!"
So I was like "Woah! Soldiers dying in a war? WTF!!!!!" and went off to a protest.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:54:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
it's been "washed".
*chuckle*
Submitted by jwlmar10 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:31:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:13:26 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:18:41 (#)
Ranking: 2
Let's just say for arguments sake that the war in Iraq is about terrorism, mkay. Now what exactly does it accomplish to wade in there guns ablazing and level the place? Are you suggesting that we hunt down everyone who has the slightest reason to hate the US and kill them? What will that do? Oh gosh now I see my mistake, now that my whole family is dead I realize that the US is the land of milk and honey
--------------------------------------
Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying that terrorists don't effect other nations? Like Serbia, Kosovo, Somolia, Isreal, and Ireland? Terrorism in not just a problem for the US, its a problem for the world, yet we are the only ones taking a stance against it.
Judoka is still leading the ignorance race. I'm done with this. There are too many liberals on this thread to debate at one time. This is why I refrain from political posts."
Let's take a look at this absolutely ridiculous response:
"Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying that terrorists don't effect other nations?"
First of all, I don't recall Loki saying anything about there being no terrorism in other nations. Second, the word you meant to use was "affect" rather than "effect." What you said can also be said as: Are you saying that terrorists don't BRING INTO EXISTENCE other nations? Now that's pretty stupid, isn't it?
"Terrorism in not just a problem for the US, its a problem for the world, yet we are the only ones taking a stance against it."
That's right. All other nations in the world sit idly by while they are repeatedly attacked by terrorists. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with your brain?
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:55:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:48:09 (#)
Ranking: 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:22:32 (#)
Ranking: 0
if you have a hard time understanding, join the military for a term like i did so you can see that you are nothing but a political tool for powerful rich men. trust me, you ain't "defending" nuthin'. you're serving, alright. serving someone else's best interests...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woah, I always figured the army was a place where I could go to cavort around freely and follow my own whimsical ambition. Thanks for showing me the light hidden101.
====================================================================
*AHEM*
as opposed to those who believe they are joining to defend their nation like they are told. 18 year old kids don't understand what the military is really about and you know it.
smartass.
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:50:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am surprised, Hidden. I'm pretty sure everyone nation has pissed off some other nation. Does that give them free reign to kill innocents? Look at Indonesia, the most recent terrorist hit. What the fuck was that about?
Everyone gets their shit ruined, and its high time we stop getting ours ruined by everyone else.
By the way, the police wouldn't handle leads on terrorism, thats Federal jurisdiction. So unless you see a cop and yell, "Hey! I think that guy has a bomb!", there is no way they are going to help curb terrorism.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:48:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:22:32 (#)
Ranking: 0
if you have a hard time understanding, join the military for a term like i did so you can see that you are nothing but a political tool for powerful rich men. trust me, you ain't "defending" nuthin'. you're serving, alright. serving someone else's best interests...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woah, I always figured the army was a place where I could go to cavort around freely and follow my own whimsical ambition. Thanks for showing me the light hidden101.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:42:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
By the way, terrorism is the price we pay for our hegemony. It doesnt mean we shouldnt defend ourselves vigously and intelligently.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:40:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Actually I think Bush is a moron. One issue. And he is doing a shitty job in the war against terrorism (the subject of the post). Two seperate issues. People who cannot hold the preceding thoughts in their minds disturb me. And make me dispair for this country. The war on terrorism is not going to go away, regardless of who is in office. To frame the election in such terms demostrates just how myopic the American public is.
Since the American people do not have the will to fight this war they way it needs to be fought (wading in blood up to our hips)we need an alternate solution. It is pretty clear that GWB's plan is an utter failure, and his people did a sub-par job planning for the war and the subsequent peace. Its time to try a new man manning the helm. If his plan sucks, we try the next guy. I fully admit the possiblity exsists that I could be wrong. Perhaps Kerry's vague assertion that internationalizing the conflict will ameliorate the situation. I doubt it, but it is possible. We do know one thing though. GWB plan has added yet another layer of destabilization to an already dangerously unstable region.
Submitted by Wiggles (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:25:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
that was the most idiotic thing i've read so far here.
look, i know a lot of you think these "tuh'rists is nuts", but they aren't attacking us because they don't agree with our way of life. WE ARE PISSING THEM OFF. why is this so hard to get??? DOESN'T ANYONE HERE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HISTORY??? jesus fucking christ, READ A BOOK or something. when they attack us and call us "infidels" it's because that's their fucking name for us, it's NOT THEIR REASON FOR ATTACKING US. THEY WANT US OUT OF OUR LAND. THEY WANT THE US TO STOP HELPING THEIR ENEMIES. *WE ARE PISSING THEM OFF* this has nothing to do with our culture, but it HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH OUR GOVERNMENT.
you morons that vote for Bush are voting for the people that are pissing the Arabs off enough to resort to terrorism. they aren't cutting heads off of people because they aren't Muslims. you may think they do it because they are just plain nuts, but they are doing everything they can to stop the US. insurgency is bigger than ever in Iraq and it is rising more every day. they don't want us there, plain and simple. they know the real reasons the US is there and i got a newsflash for ya- it ain't altruism. pull your heads out of your asses, stop listening to government propaganda, stop falling for the patriotism bullcrap (you can be patriotic without agreeing with Bush, in case some of you didn't know that), and stop believing everything you are told because you are too niave to believe that the benevolent, almighty US government would never do anything wrong.
----------------------
Well said, hidden.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:22:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
if you have a hard time understanding, join the military for a term like i did so you can see that you are nothing but a political tool for powerful rich men. trust me, you ain't "defending" nuthin'. you're serving, alright. serving someone else's best interests...
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:20:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
sorry for the typo. i meant to say they want us out of THEIR land.
you know, that land that has belonged to them for thousands of years that they consider their holy land? unlike our land, which we had to steal from Indians.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:17:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:45:27 (#)
Ranking: -1
The infidels must die reasoning is already enough of an excuse for terrorists. When will you left wing liberal nuts get it? If we play nice and try to make up with the terrorists, they will still try to kill us. They have hated us for years and will continue to do so. They hate us because we can freely express our opinions. They hate us because you, loki, can walk around in pants beside a man. I know Iraq was relatively secular, but look at Iran and Afghanistan. Look at Sadr, or whatever his name is. These people will not stop attacking us no matter what. So our best chance is to go over their and try to affect change. If we can just help one nation of arabs create their own democracy, it will hopefully spread and then they will not have any reason to hate us.
nevermind. you people don't get it. live in your drug induced world with your dreams of peace through diplomacy. hell, it is what the terrorists want you to waste your time doing. just don't cry and act surprised next time they attack us.
=================================================
that was the most idiotic thing i've read so far here.
look, i know a lot of you think these "tuh'rists is nuts", but they aren't attacking us because they don't agree with our way of life. WE ARE PISSING THEM OFF. why is this so hard to get??? DOESN'T ANYONE HERE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HISTORY??? jesus fucking christ, READ A BOOK or something. when they attack us and call us "infidels" it's because that's their fucking name for us, it's NOT THEIR REASON FOR ATTACKING US. THEY WANT US OUT OF OUR LAND. THEY WANT THE US TO STOP HELPING THEIR ENEMIES. *WE ARE PISSING THEM OFF* this has nothing to do with our culture, but it HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH OUR GOVERNMENT.
you morons that vote for Bush are voting for the people that are pissing the Arabs off enough to resort to terrorism. they aren't cutting heads off of people because they aren't Muslims. you may think they do it because they are just plain nuts, but they are doing everything they can to stop the US. insurgency is bigger than ever in Iraq and it is rising more every day. they don't want us there, plain and simple. they know the real reasons the US is there and i got a newsflash for ya- it ain't altruism. pull your heads out of your asses, stop listening to government propaganda, stop falling for the patriotism bullcrap (you can be patriotic without agreeing with Bush, in case some of you didn't know that), and stop believing everything you are told because you are too niave to believe that the benevolent, almighty US government would never do anything wrong.
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:13:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:18:41 (#)
Ranking: 2
Let's just say for arguments sake that the war in Iraq is about terrorism, mkay. Now what exactly does it accomplish to wade in there guns ablazing and level the place? Are you suggesting that we hunt down everyone who has the slightest reason to hate the US and kill them? What will that do? Oh gosh now I see my mistake, now that my whole family is dead I realize that the US is the land of milk and honey
--------------------------------------
Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying that terrorists don't effect other nations? Like Serbia, Kosovo, Somolia, Isreal, and Ireland? Terrorism in not just a problem for the US, its a problem for the world, yet we are the only ones taking a stance against it.
Judoka is still leading the ignorance race. I'm done with this. There are too many liberals on this thread to debate at one time. This is why I refrain from political posts.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 18:03:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have a great idea.
It has nothing to do with Iraq or anything, which makes it even better.
Everyone gets together and votes gibberish for King of The World. Here's what I will do:
-take immediate control as a tyrannical despot
-free pie for all
-turn South Dakota into a giant pit of doom
-throw people who piss me off into the pit of doom
-bake brownies on wednesday nights
-clone the dinosaurs then build a giant comet and smash it into the earth to kill them again so we can have more oil
-vegetarians/vegans will be tortured until they go crazy and start eating raw meat because they piss me off
-free cake for all
-everyone will have a tracking device implanted in their brain and a barcode tattooed to their hand and neck, just because it would be cool
-ugly people will be shot
-stupid people will be sterilized, unless they're also ugly, in which case they would be shot
-there will be a new language, just to throw everyone for a loop
-all will be brainwashed
-civilization or any sort of enlightened thought is illegal and you will be thrown into South Dakota if you start up with that shit
-some other stuff
-cripples, midgets, crazies, and bitches will be sent to live with the squirrels
-woo
---gib (for king)
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:48:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hidden what about me? What about my weed?
Wait Im a teacher. I dont have any, say no to drugs kids.
Donkey still in the idiotic comment lead.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:45:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
The infidels must die reasoning is already enough of an excuse for terrorists. When will you left wing liberal nuts get it? If we play nice and try to make up with the terrorists, they will still try to kill us. They have hated us for years and will continue to do so. They hate us because we can freely express our opinions. They hate us because you, loki, can walk around in pants beside a man. I know Iraq was relatively secular, but look at Iran and Afghanistan. Look at Sadr, or whatever his name is. These people will not stop attacking us no matter what. So our best chance is to go over their and try to affect change. If we can just help one nation of arabs create their own democracy, it will hopefully spread and then they will not have any reason to hate us.
nevermind. you people don't get it. live in your drug induced world with your dreams of peace through diplomacy. hell, it is what the terrorists want you to waste your time doing. just don't cry and act surprised next time they attack us.
Submitted by jwlmar10 (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:29:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Kerry said he will deal with it by adding thousands of cops. What the fuck does that do? The Police are a REACTIVE entity. They cannot stop anything from happening. Granted, the military is not all pervasive, but it bols down to this:
Would terrorist rather have a nine mm pistol pointed at their head, or a cruise missle?"
The police, if they do their job, have the ability to investigate any leads to terrorists in the USA. Of course they can stop something from happening. How is the military stopping anything from happening? If we could simply point a cruise missile at all of the terrorists and blow the shit out of them then this war would be over. However, it just isn't that simple. If it were, then Osama would be dead or captured by now.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:25:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
loki- tell me where you get your weed. it's obviously doing you good because you're one of the few that get it around here. it's so simple, yet no one gets it.
god, i'd do anything for a joint right now... my doctor needs to realize that marijuana is my only hope. antidepressants just make things worse, but she keeps telling me that smoking marijuana would be bad for me and it's illegal. pffft, whatever...
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:18:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Let's just say for arguments sake that the war in Iraq is about terrorism, mkay. Now what exactly does it accomplish to wade in there guns ablazing and level the place? Are you suggesting that we hunt down everyone who has the slightest reason to hate the US and kill them? What will that do? Oh gosh now I see my mistake, now that my whole family is dead I realize that the US is the land of milk and honey.
Or do you think it's possible, just possible that by starting a war we're making people hate us more, in fact giving them a solid reason to hate us instead of just the usual "infidels must die" reasons?
Oh wait a minute, now I get it we're going to just kill off every single Arab on the entire blue and green planet. It's so simple and yet brilliant, why didn't Hitler think of that, daham.
So here again, I ask you how has this war made the US safer?
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 17:07:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-16 16:13:48 (#)
Ranking: 0
It is nothing you can even comprehend until you witness it first hand. Comparing the reporting for the Olympics and reporting for Iraq is not the best way to describe it. I've already stated on numerous posts the advantages of taking a proactive stance against terrorism.
=====================================================================
before i read on, i would like to comment.
no one ever said a proactive stance against terrorism was a bad thing. we are saying BUSH'S proactive stance against terrorism ISN'T WORKING. it's making things much, much worse, and if Bush gets re-elected because he says he will protect America from terrorists with his idiotic schemes like Iraq, god save us all...
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-16 16:13:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It is nothing you can even comprehend until you witness it first hand. Comparing the reporting for the Olympics and reporting for Iraq is not the best way to describe it. I've already stated on numerous posts the advantages of taking a proactive stance against terrorism.
Kerry said he will deal with it by adding thousands of cops. What the fuck does that do? The Police are a REACTIVE entity. They cannot stop anything from happening. Granted, the military is not all pervasive, but it bols down to this:
Would terrorist rather have a nine mm pistol pointed at their head, or a cruise missle?
People are too apathetic these days. Something needs to be done, and we are doing it. I'm not saying we are perfect and that we are the best, BUT the time for holding hands and protesting is over. The UN needs to be restructured (preferably with a wrecking ball) because no less than 7 genocides have taken place under Koffi Anan. Is the entire world going to sit back and let a whole race of people be exterminated from this Earth? If so, I say fuck them all. Pull out of every country we are in. Close up shop and close our borders. Radical, yes. But I am not about to stand around and watch the IMF (International Monetary Fund)not lend aid to countries in need. They are just as bad as the UN and needs to be abolished.
If the war is such a big issue, people need to take a look at the state of the world right now. Everyone is at war with someone.
Except for Switzerland. But who wants to fight a county of hot chicks with guns? No one. Thats who.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 15:41:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
We have a new leader in the idiotic comment catergory for today. Donkeyon the Edge let me ask you this, do you know the moon has no atmoshpere? How? Have you been there? Even more prosaically, how about Paul Hamm winning the Gold medal. It was reported by the media, it happened in a different country and there was controversy surrounding the events in question.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 15:19:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i know plenty of people that have been to Iraq and still agree that this "war" in Iraq is completely wrong.
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-16 15:17:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It was weak and its an argument that the Dems have been warming over for a year now. Until you go over there and gather all the information, your post is unfounded.
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-16 15:14:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
voting libertarian isn't the same as a vote for Bush.
It is closer to a half vote.
Submitted by MickGinny (user info) at 2004-09-16 15:13:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Are you referring to the Illuminati?"
No.
When reflecting on some of the decisions that have been made over the years and the outcome of those decisions, I would not consider then particularly enlightened.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 15:12:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.whitehouse.org/iraq/index.asp
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-09-16 15:07:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
MickGinny: in response to "The president is a figure head and convenient fallguy for the thousands of people that actually make the decisions for America."
Are you referring to the Illuminati?
I mean, I can't remember the last time my opinion has mattered to anyone politically. If they had there way I would be cannon fodder.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:58:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
vote Bush or DIE!!!111!!!
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:52:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Kerry's daughters are better looking, smarter, and more lady-like than Bush's daughters could ever hope to be.
not that it has anything to do with politics. just an observation...
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:52:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-09-16 14:50:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
Der, I vote for my favorite dubya. He talks funny and makes me laugh. Plus he likes to drink. I like to drink, yay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bush is a recovering alcoholic, I doubt he drinks too much.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-09-16 14:50:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Der, I vote for my favorite dubya. He talks funny and makes me laugh. Plus he likes to drink. I like to drink, yay.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:48:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
1pointwhatever (no offense, I just couldn't remember it),
My vote doesn't count anyway, as I live in New York which will go to Kerry no matter what.
And if I was voting for either Bush or Kerry, it would be for Bush. As much as I dislike Bush, John Kerry is just a bigger douchebag, a gold digger, carpetbagger, and has ugly fucking daughters.
Submitted by 1Point21Gigawatts (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:45:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"GW only went to war to avenge the assasination plan for his father ordered by Saddam Hussein."
Yes, that and to line his (and Cheney's) pockets with cash, the greedy fuck.
Submitted by 1Point21Gigawatts (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:43:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
gibberish,
voting Libertarian is basically voting for GWB - it takes a vote away from Kerry, not the moron.
Submitted by MickGinny (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:41:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Anyone that was unaware of our type of government would swear we were a dictatorship from reading this and other similar political posts on uber.
I have said this so many times before: the president of the united states has about as much of a say in the decision making of our government as the sun has a decision if it will rise in the east and set in the west.
The president is a figure head and convenient fallguy for the thousands of people that actually make the decisions for America. The only real requirements for being elected president, besides the ones we are all familiar with are salesmanship and masochism. Furthermore, Those people who make those decisions are completely unaffected by party change and the replacement of staff by newly elected administrations.
I happen to get quite a giggle from this particular view: GW only went to war to avenge the assasination plan for his father ordered by Saddam Hussein.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:35:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, and don't take anything I say seriously. Ever.
I'm legally insane for fuck's sake.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:34:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, and in regards to this:
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:03:32 (#)
Ranking: 0
How did this thread turn into a referendum on terrorism? Yes terrorism is bad. I get it. How did de stabilizing a country in an already unstable region help us curb terrorism or make us safer?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Saddam funded terrorism.
"But... but he didn't have ANYTHING to do with 9/11!!!!!11"
Wow tell me something that anyone with half a brain couldn't have figured out. He funded terrorism in a little place called Israel. You know, that place with all the jews who mysteriously keep exploding when they get on buses? Ever hear of Hamas? Hizzbollah? Yeah, he gave money to both groups. Realistically, Bush didn't invade Iraq for that reason, but it's a useful excuse for conservatives to use for support of a useless war.
Other than that point, this post still sucked. You didn't even come up with a hilarious way of rebutting my stupid response. "My IQ drops when i read your stuff lol!!". Come on, you can do better than that. At least say I'm gay or something.
Screw Bush. Screw Kerry. Vote libertarian.
At least our party's platform is hilariously stupid, instead of just stupid.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:32:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:14:33 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:08:48 (#)
Ranking: 0
It only sounds like nothing to the ignorant, uninformed or unaware.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This post was pointless. Just a typical "George Bush is bad, vote for Kerry" thing. I hear it every day from my teachers.
===============================================
POINTLESS??? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? please tell me you're not really serious. please.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:27:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:59:33 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:41:13 (#)
Ranking: 2
yes, ask the troops home from Iraq how awesome we are. if any of them tell you we are being really, really nice to the Iraqis, it's because they aren't doing the real job out there. there are some units that are sent there to go to villages to hand out water and food just to make us look good, but it's all a scam.
--
I know quite a few marines just back from Iraq who would take issue with that scam comment.
And I personally don't give a flying fuck what is pissing off the terrorists. I DO NOT CARE. They want to kill civillians as a terror threat. They have targeted Americans. Fuck'em. End of story. They threaten me and my family and friends? My co-workers? That woman and her kids across the street? The old man sitting on his porch enjoying the sun? Fuck'em. The math is very simple. If you threaten us, you die.
===================================================================
you're not too bright, are ya? you might want to start caring about what is pissing off the terrorists. the problem is, our government knows what it is, and they are doing nothing about it. Bin Laden may be ultimately to blame for 9/11, but the US government is next in line.
and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. i still can't believe people are believing this crap...
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:25:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh yeah, were excatly did I say vote for Kerry. I did say that the Iraq debacle would lead people to vote for him, but offered no specfic endorsement.
Dont go away mad, just go away. Every time I read something that you have written I feel my IQ drop by ten points. Pretty soon I'll be like you, sitting in the corner and drooling on myself.
Submitted by 1Point21Gigawatts (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:23:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well, George Bush IS bad, we SHOULD vote for Kerry - but (as far as the Bush controlled media is concerned) we're not. Even though I'm sick of seeing politics based posts, they still have value because every voter counts. IF there's still some stupid Arkansas native out there who hasn't figured out how moronic GWB is, then maybe him being flooded with this type of information will help.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:22:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
How excatly is this pointless?
The decision to put young men and women in harms way, your saying thats pointless? Starting a war to make us safer, obviously the ramifications of such a decision is not worth discussing. Or maybe the effect on the US's prestige around the world is not worth discussing. You are an idiot.
You go to this "school" of yours on a short bus dont you?
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:14:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:08:48 (#)
Ranking: 0
It only sounds like nothing to the ignorant, uninformed or unaware.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This post was pointless. Just a typical "George Bush is bad, vote for Kerry" thing. I hear it every day from my teachers.
Submitted by dohnuts (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:12:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:03:32 (#)
Ranking: 0
How did this thread turn into a referendum on terrorism? Yes terrorism is bad. I get it. How did de stabilizing a country in an already unstable region help us curb terrorism or make us safer?
---------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Once again, Bush I: "While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam...would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome."
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:08:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It only sounds like nothing to the ignorant, uninformed or unaware.
Submitted by 1Point21Gigawatts (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:07:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Anything that trashes Bush gets a +2 from me, I don't care if it sucks or what.
He is a waste of space - and I'm sickened by the fact that so few people realize this. Its kind of like being an atheist - you know you're right but everyone around you chooses to be ignorant!
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:05:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You tried sounding smart but still said a whole lotta nothin'.
Good job, have a zero.
Submitted by Random Joseph at 2004-09-16 14:05:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:59:33 (#)
Ranking: -2
The math is very simple. If you threaten us, you die.
=====================================================
Congratulations! You have the same exact mentality as terrorists, and are no better than they are. Way to go, douchebag.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 14:03:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
How did this thread turn into a referendum on terrorism? Yes terrorism is bad. I get it. How did de stabilizing a country in an already unstable region help us curb terrorism or make us safer?
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:59:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:41:13 (#)
Ranking: 2
yes, ask the troops home from Iraq how awesome we are. if any of them tell you we are being really, really nice to the Iraqis, it's because they aren't doing the real job out there. there are some units that are sent there to go to villages to hand out water and food just to make us look good, but it's all a scam.
--
I know quite a few marines just back from Iraq who would take issue with that scam comment.
And I personally don't give a flying fuck what is pissing off the terrorists. I DO NOT CARE. They want to kill civillians as a terror threat. They have targeted Americans. Fuck'em. End of story. They threaten me and my family and friends? My co-workers? That woman and her kids across the street? The old man sitting on his porch enjoying the sun? Fuck'em. The math is very simple. If you threaten us, you die.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:41:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:50:10 (#)
Ranking: -2
Seeing as how none of our planes have been hijacked recently and none of our children have been slain by terrorists, uh, sorry, insurgents, I'd say we are doing something right.
And before you swallow whole everything the press tells you, seek out a soldier who is just back from Iraq (there is one in every town) and you'll hear tales of Iraqis who are thankful that we stepped in and did what we did.
==========================================================================
that was the dumbest thing i've read today. yes, only today so far. but i'm sure i will end up reading something dumber if i stick around Ubersite for a little longer today. this place is full of idiots.
now, to address this reply- then what about all the time BEFORE 9/11. no one flew any planes into our buildings or killed our children then. does that mean we were safe then? apparently not...
and as far as soldiers go, don't even tell me about that. being in the military, my friends came back from that place every day and told me how "grateful" the Iraqis were that we were they. in fact, they were so grateful, they shot their guns off in celebration, but i they accidentally aimed them towards US troops. oh well. forget about that. they are grateful because we say so. and let's not forget about my personal favorite story of altruism, when an Iraqi asked my friend for some water for his thirsty family (which the troops had plenty of), and he shot the man dead with two bullets to the chest in front of his thirsty family because he was ordered to. the Iraqis are SO happy, in fact, that they shoot RPGs at the troops to show their gratitude. mostly it's gratitude for having their house blown up and their family killed.
yes, ask the troops home from Iraq how awesome we are. if any of them tell you we are being really, really nice to the Iraqis, it's because they aren't doing the real job out there. there are some units that are sent there to go to villages to hand out water and food just to make us look good, but it's all a scam.
Submitted by TigerLilly (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:30:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Meh...
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:14:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Actually loki, osama is just one face of the enemy. The terrorists are the enemy, wherever they may be.
Truly frightening thing is that article. The main character doesn't seem to realize that the US can't leave until the fighting dies down. And the fighting won't die down until we leave. What did the guy think, that there would be no civilian deaths? They wanted freedom from a dictator but they don't like paying the price. Now they are fragmented and attacking people with the same goals.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:03:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
**Seeing as how none of our planes have been hijacked recently and none of our children have been slain by terrorists, uh, sorry, insurgents, I'd say we are doing something right. **
If you really believe this, then logically you have to also blame Bush for 9/11.
Yes some of the Iraqis are happy we're there, I guess, but even the ones who were happy that Saddam was ousted want us out now.
Which is not the issue, the issue here is keeping the country safe from terrorists. Actually, fuck that, terrorism is not even the real issue. Terrorism is merely a means, the real enemy is Bin Laden, remember him? The guy who actually was responsible for that little incident in on 9/11. Declaring war on terrorism is like declaring war on rocks because someone threw one through the window. You need to declare war on the jackass throwing the rocks, not the rocks.
So, considering how much more hate and venom this little moment of imperialism has drummed up in the Arabic world, do you really feel like this war has made us safer? Shock and awe makes for a nice recruitment poster don't you think?
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:02:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Jack, that is a fucking weak ass CORRELATION and not a CAUSATION. Besides, who needs to hijack a plane when there are so many more convenient targets chilling in the middle east.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:02:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks firefly.
I'm proud of our soliders they are being put in an extremely difficult situation and conducting themselves (Abu Gharib aside) with grace. However, what the soliders believe is really not the point. They have a job to do and they doing it, ultimately it is the President and by extention the American voter (of which they are part) that decide where our military is going to serve us best.
Finally, if the Iraqi's are so pleased by our presence why are the insurgent forces growing daily?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1302718,00.html
Submitted by strider (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:01:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by trees (user info) at 2004-09-16 13:00:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Jack M,
'none of our children have been slain by terrorists'
do you smoke crack?
over ONE THOUSAND, that's 3 9/11s, have been slain by terrorists. in iraq.
meanwhile Iran is developing nukes and we have no resources to attack them with.
think or stink.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:51:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
To those who say that the first link is unrelated to my post I have two words for you: logical infrence.
It takes a man to stand up and admit you were wrong. GWB seems completely incapable of taking responsiblity for his actions. Either he made bad decisions or he allowed his underlings to make bad decisions on his behalf. No matter which way you parcel out the blame all but the most scyophantic neo con can agree that the Iraq war is an unmitigated diaster.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:50:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Loki
The US will be safe when President Jr. goes to Iraq himself. And stays there.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:50:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Seeing as how none of our planes have been hijacked recently and none of our children have been slain by terrorists, uh, sorry, insurgents, I'd say we are doing something right.
And before you swallow whole everything the press tells you, seek out a soldier who is just back from Iraq (there is one in every town) and you'll hear tales of Iraqis who are thankful that we stepped in and did what we did.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:46:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:42:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i care about what you think:)
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:42:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:40:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
One of the f'ed up things is that President Bush could have consulted his father, who basically predicted the Custer's Last Stand scenario that Iraq seems to have become, and instead he gave us a bunch of tripe about "there is a higher father that I appeal to."
And if there's one thing I know for sure, God has got nothing to do with what is going on in Iraq.
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:37:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Please don't suffer under the delusion that anyone else cares what you think.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:36:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yet Bush's stump speech makes a lot of noise about how iffn John Kerry was prezident Sadum wud still be in pwer.
remind me again how this war is making the US safe
Submitted by jwlmar10 (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:36:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
All about Bush and this crap war.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/45148
Submitted by Despiadado (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:33:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
This post was kinda lacking in content and didn't say anything I havn't heard before. And the news article was almost completely unrelated.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:30:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Iraq: from Bad to Worse"
It took you a year and half since the beggining of this farce of war to noticed that?
I don't know why I'm suprised, despite alll that, Bush is still gaining grounds.
Submitted by cigar (user info) at 2004-09-16 12:29:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment