The connection between Iraq and 9/11 (1609 hits)
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Submitted by tshia (View user info) at 2004-09-16 19:48:46 EDT
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" -Thomas Jefferson
"Give me liberty or give me death" -Patrick Henry
I recently read a CNN news report that claimed 51% of people who participated in a poll believed that Iraq was connected to the terrorists who attacked America on September 11. I was shocked, disgusted, and in general outraged at the people who I feel are to blame for this blatant misinforming of our (my) country's population, and so apparently does CNN.
51% of the population is an unacceptably low number; it should be closer to 100% of the population, because Iraq is in fact strongly linked to the terrorist operations that leveled the Twin Towers in New York.
Were Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden friends? No. Did Hussein help Bin Laden coordinate or execute his attacks in anyway? No. How then are they connected? The answer is by their extraordinarily likeminded ideologies.
Terrorists, by definition, attempt to subvert a population to their will through the use of violent, fear inspiring tactics often aimed at innocent civilians. Horror stories of Saddam's war crimes abound, he was a brutal dictator who coerced his population to obedience through torture and death. In the totalitarian state of Iraq citizens agreed with the policies of their leader or they died, often they died anyway.
The terrorists who attacked New York and Washington on 9/11 wished to impose a similar rule over us. By this I, by no means mean to suggest that these terrorists sought to conquer are country or claim it as there own, but rather that they sought to violently manipulate us into obedience. The agenda of the terrorists who attacked us is only conjecture by those outside of Al Quieda but apparently it involves the cessation of the process understood as "globalization", the consumption of other cultures by the rapidly growing American culture and the abandonment of our allies in the Middle East, namely Israel.
The terrorists, in their efforts to dominate us murdered, by fire and collision, thousands of innocent American citizens. They used a mainstream American transit system to shatter the symbol of American economic superiority. Through released videos and threatening statements they sought to demoralize and frighten our population into subjugation. This is how the terrorists who attacked us on September 11 are connected to Saddam Hussein, they share a common mentality, they share the same tactics, and they share the same enemy.
Waging the war in Iraq is a costly business, for us as well as our allies, but the war is a resounding success. The news brings reports almost daily of captured or killed members of Al Quieda, the Taliban, or Saddam's regime. Men who had the power, the initiative, and the experience of killing not only American citizens, but their own countrymen, when our war is complete the world itself will be a safer place.
As an American I believe that every human born, regardless of the country of their birth, in entitled to certain unalienable rights, those of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Like my forefathers I believe that sacrifice is necessary to obtain these rights, they must be bought in blood.
User Reviews
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2004-12-01 15:45:01 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Your facts are completely wrong from the get-go; I suggest you do a little research before making such pronouncements.
The truth is: there is NO connection between Iraq and 9/11.
The ideology of Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein are COMPLETE OPPOSITES.
Saddam (and Moammar Quaddafi, among others) belives in Arab Nationalism. This is characterized by a secular state, and the power of the mullahs is subordinate to the the power of the State.
Al-Qaeda believes in Theocracy, religious law predominates, and the power of the State is subordinate to the power of the mullahs.
Moammar Quaddafi HATES Al-Qaeda more that we do! He has even offered to help the CIA with anti-al-Qaeda intelligence (an offer which the CIA stupidly turned down)!
If you want a better understanding of this split, study the situation in Algeria right now.
The Arab Nationalist government in charge has invalidated the last set of elections, which gave power to the religious right.
51% of Americans believe that there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11? 71% of Americans still believe Elvis is still alive, too.
The conclusion? Americans are some of the most gullible dumbasses on the planet.
Submitted by lessthanfour (user info) at 2004-12-01 15:30:17 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Fart
Submitted by thaumaturge (user info) at 2004-12-01 15:28:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The connection is Isreal. Arabs hate and deny the state. The feel it is an occupation. Isreal is given eveything it needs militarily from the U.S. THE ATTACKS WERE TO WEAKEN THE ECONOMY. To the end of cutting off U.S. support to Isreal. IRAQ WAR is due in part to the fact that Isreal's number 1 threat was Iraq. Now they are not. Isreal is a state created (in part) and nurtured by the U.S. Has Isreal started wars in the middle east? Yes.
This whole problem has NOTHING to do with American people (be as much of a patriot as you want) and everything to do with middle eastern wars with Isreal.
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2004-12-01 15:26:31 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Ugh, this post sucked hardcore then and still sucks.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2004-12-01 15:19:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Didn't read it but I owe you one.
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2004-10-30 21:00:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The Bush Administration had more to do with 9/11 then Iraq did...so go back to sleep bitch!
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2004-09-19 22:02:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What you know about terrorism, and politics, and the way things work, I could comfortably pass through the hole in my penis
Submitted by Quasiplasmohedron (user info) at 2004-09-19 20:28:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"This is how the terrorists who attacked us on September 11 are connected to Saddam Hussein, they share a common mentality, they share the same tactics, and they share the same enemy."
Not what the poll was asking at all.
Waging the war in Iraq is a costly business, for us as well as our allies, and the costs of war may continue to be felt for decades. The news brings reports almost daily of killed American soldiers not yet old enough to drink legally and innocent civilians. Men who had the power, the initiative, and the experience of killing not only Iraqi citizens, but their own countrymen - men like George Walker "Texas Ranger" Bush. When our war is complete the world itself will be a more dangerous place.
Submitted by Timmah (user info) at 2004-09-19 20:09:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I challenge you to show me one culture that did not base its deepest roots in warfare. You can't because there aren't any
=================================
Alot of countries have war forced upon them. Such as the native americans. sure they may have fought each other but I think tribal skirmishes hardly constitute as warfare. It was the white man trying to force them out of their homes that pushed them into "war".
Just because a country goes to war does not mean war is A: That countries choice, or B: A part of that countries culture.
Submitted by SwissCamel (user info) at 2004-09-19 19:45:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
fucking rubbish
Submitted by Timmah (user info) at 2004-09-19 19:39:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No one cares about your shitty posts. Slore don't minus a drunk post when you can't even manage to achieve a single overall +rating when you are sober. Bitch
Submitted by runninginplace (user info) at 2004-09-17 17:31:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I am sorry I missed this post until now. Good job.
Submitted by wazzawazzayo (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:35:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
'm gonna terrorize your twin towers and then I'm gonna hide my big Bin Laden in your cave (ass) cus I'm so-damn insane!
Yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie-yie!
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-17 16:07:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
wow Jose, you are pretty fucking stupid aren't you? Don't bother answering that, you already have. Ooh I make a few typos oh dear, that completely invalidates my every opinion. Seriously go to hell if my spelling is poor it is not poor enough to obscure my message so it is fairly irrelevant.
As I have said about twenty times before on this thread alone the kind of example you give is radically different from the connection I am trying to illustrate. Observe, your connection draws on physical similarities. People with the same physical characteristics are in no disposed to act like each other. People who have the same mental philosophy and employ the same tactics are. Is that any clearer then the twenty other times I said it? Seriously you must be a fucking retard to not understand how terribly terribly obvious this truly is.
Are you trying somehow to make fun of me by writing such stupid shit? Is that your goal? Cause that is pretty much the only thing that would make any sense. Before you try to figure out how I think try and find out why you don't think. Or just piss off.
Submitted by RandomJose (user info) at 2004-09-17 15:54:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It figures the kind of dumb fuck who can't spell or tell the difference between there, their and they're would take this stance on the fighting in Iraq.
I read the "ideology" paragraph, and had to jump right into -2 mode. Your argument of "they're the same kind of people, so they must want the same thing" is the dumbest bunch of horseshit anyone has ever typed into the submit box.
Here's me using your brash generalizations against a different group of people.
"One nigger robbed and killed a white person. All niggers must be killed because they're going to rob white people. Thats what they do and how they think. We must invade Africa."
The way you think is no different from that.
Fuckhead.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-17 14:10:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No darth I didn't miss it the first time, I just figured it was a point so obviously inconsequential that it did not rate a response. There is a significant difference between physical similarities and similar ideologies. An ideology will motivate its holder to a certain course of action, this is why the connection I try to illustrate is relevant but those you list are not. I guess it's your argument that's over.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-17 13:55:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
First, Spike you seem terribly close minded, you believe that any view different from yours is "ignorant bullshit" and that is not a good way to participate in a debate. Let's talk about your modified starfish parable. The path I advocate is the one where the boy throws a few starfish into the ocean, the path you advocate is the one where the boy does nothing. Unless I misunderstand you, you are either saying our country should not interfere with the problems of other countries and that is far from the "triage" method that you claim is superior.
It may well be that there are better ways to go about helping the world and personally I would be much in favor of pursuing those alternative plans, I would not be in favor of abandoning our position in Iraq and the work that has already gone into liberating their society. You are being hypocritical, you complain because the method I am backing has a cost that is too high and also because the method does not do enough. Make up your mind.
I challenge you to show me one culture that did not base its deepest roots in warfare. You can't because there aren't any. Those three philosophers you mentioned are just individuals; their ideas are not inherently more or less valuable then any other persons. Why don't you try reading Heinlein or Machiavelli or about Benjamin Franklin?
As far as war being the ultimate resolution to any argument I did not mean to imply that it was the best resolution or that it was the resolution that always occurred, just that war is the highest court. There are no appeals from the court of war. Say you and I disagree, you think 2+2=4 and I think it equals 5. Now we could talk and debate about it for as long as we wanted and even if you made the best arguments and had the best evidence I could resolve the problem by beating you into submission at which point the value of your arguments is zero.
"WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING BY DEFENDING IT?!?!?!?!!?!?"
I am defending the war for the purposes I have stated, I believe it will further the freedom and safety of the people in the Middle East as well as people worldwide. How many times do I need to say this? I don't know the reasons why our government is fighting this war, I suspect they are not entirely altruistic but I don't need to know their motivations to support the war myself. I believe it will further an agenda I think valuable, the safety and freedom of people world wide. That is why I support it.
"yet you abdicate your freedom to a government which, you believe, doesn't inform you of its reasons for going to war in your name?"
Far from abdicating my freedom I am exercising it, I have formed reasons and opinions as to why I personally support the war and I will vote in accordance with them. I fail to see how you could possibly think the attitude of deciding for myself what I think is right and then acting to support what I believe is indicative of a dictatorship. To me this seems the very essence of democracy. I can agree with the actions of my government without being under the mental control of "Big Brother"
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-09-17 01:47:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I know the chart is a few years old and it keeps going up (dollar wise) and the economy is going up still as well...mabye not as fast as we need it to be.
When the economy doesn't go up at all, and debt goes up alot...THIS is something to really worry about. But blaming it as something "passed on to our children" is a bullshit arguement the democrats usually play on the uneducated masses. (You don't think the democrats play their political games, too?) Seriously...I said it before and I'll say it again: Nearly all economists are conservatives. (Conservative republican & libertarian). Why? Figure it out for yourself.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2004-09-17 01:47:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:50:08 (#)
Ranking: -2
And what the hell might your point be?
I can find a few connections between Saddam and Osama too!
1. both Arab
2. both male
3. both human
4. do you see how retarded this is yet?
When people say "there is no connection between Saddam and Osama/Iraq and 9-11," they are not referring to ideology, you goddamned idiot, so taking up an argument in which you equivocate on the word "connection" proves nothing other than the indisputable connection between you and stupid.
Did you miss this?
You're post is through. You're done. It's over.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-09-17 01:43:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
polyamorousaj (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:51:48 (#)
Ranking: -2
Two words to start out with: Pyrrhic victory. Look it up.
"War itself is actually quite beneficial for our economy. When the government spends money to make weapons that money goes to defense contractors, when the government raises an army it costs money which goes to our soldiers. From an economic standpoint war causes large amounts of currency to circulate and little else. Said circulation is what keeps the economy running."
*** Just because we're circulating lots of money, doesn't mean our economy is any stronger. There's this little number... it's called the budget deficit. Under Clinton, we had budget surpluses (I'm not saying that Clinton caused them, but he did do a good job managing them). Under W., we have a deficit from this year alone. JUST this year, of 700 billion dollars. Think about that. 700 billion. That's not just what we've spent, that's how much we've exceeded our financial limitations. That money's going to have to be paid back at some point. Maybe not in our lifetime, but in our childrens' and grandchildrens'. Just because you print and circulate money doesn't mean you have it. Take an economics class. ***
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In an economics class you will learn that the national debt was actually worse after World War II than it is now.
I'm not trying to bash on you, AJ. Just for economics, you are off. This debt won't ever be paid back ever. Not our lifetime, not our children's lifetime, or their children's lifetime. If you say "Federal debt is bad." You are actually incorrect. It is used as a tool to balance the economy and reduce recessions. (Federal spending goes up for government, debt goes up, economy doesn't go down).... THAT'S in an economics class.
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/4834/pic.htm
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-17 01:09:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Stop being an American for a while, and become a human. When you see the world as a global concern, your post will embarrass you."
this is why i love Brad.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2004-09-17 00:44:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Spikey has said all the things I wouldn't have wasted my time on saying to you. You're not worth it to me. You have no concept of the macrocosm, and I feel sorry for you.
Step outside the box, stupid.
Oh, and Spikey, you fucking rule!
Submitted by SpikeGoddess (user info) at 2004-09-17 00:35:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Let me apologize to you right now for how forceful, vindictive and personal my argument is bound to be. You picked the wrong night to post ignorant bullshit because I am so fucking wired it is unbelievable and I am going to take it out on this post. It's not you that I'm mad at. It's everything that has infected your mind.
Let's talk about your starfish parable. Now, let's say that instead of casually tossing a starfish into the ocean when he felt like it, the boy went on a campaign to save as many as possible. What would he do? If he were smart, he'd triage them. The ones who were lying on dry sand and had already died or who were so oxygen deprived that they'd be goners even if they were thrown back would be left where they lay. He'd start with the ones who were still hanging on but closest to death. Then he'd progressively move closer and closer to the sea, picking up the ones that had been out in the air for the shortest time last. He'd operate like ER doctors do. Triage.
Our country is very much like your naive little boy in the parable who wanders along the shore enjoying himself, saving things when it's convienient and largely ignoring the rest of the suffering. The grandfather is much like the rationale of corporations who believe in nothing but profit and indulgence. What I'm saying is that we have limited resources with which to help or to make a change, and we need to triage. We need to look to the root of the problem and begin to work on viable solutions.
"War is the ultimate foundation of every human society"
This just isn't true. Some societies are founded on God, while others are founded on some kind of national identity. Some are founded on Reason, others on Greed, others on megalomania. War is used to back up these underlying reasons at times, but war is not the basis for society. Take a fucking government class and get somebody to hold your hand through Locke, Hobbes, and Rousseau.
"and it is the ultimate resolution to any human argument to believe otherwise is wishful thinking at best."
The ultimate resolution to any human argument is discussion--->understanding------>compromise. The ultimate resolution to my argument with you would be for us to discuss this until we understand eachother and then come to a reasonable, empathetic understanding of one another, at which point our differences can be resolved. The ultimate resolution is not for me to come after you and head-butt you into submission or blow up your pet goat with a pipe bomb.
"I cannot argue for the rationale of this war and I didn't try to, I attempted only to show what is, in my opinion, a valid and substantial link between Iraq and the terrorists who attacked the US on 9/11."
You are blindly following what's being fed to you and you admit it. If you cannot argue for the rationale of this war then WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING BY DEFENDING IT?!?!?!?!!?!? You are lending your support to deaths. That is real. Take that in. You are condoning deaths. You are condoning deaths and you CANNOT ARGUE FOR THE RATIONALE OF THIS WAR!?!?!?!?!?!?
"Again I cannot speak as to what this war is about."
Again, I am filled with unspeakable indignation.
"I do not know, I would hazard a guess that our government is not fighting it for those reasons I listed earlier but in truth neither you nor I know. Their reasons are largely irrelevant though so long as the fore mentioned results still occur."
Their reasons are relevant because WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY NOT A DICTATORSHIP! You dare to quote Patrick Henry and yet you abdicate your freedom to a government which, you believe, doesn't inform you of its reasons for going to war in your name? And you are expected to vote and participate in democracy without knowledge of what the hell is going on or even WHY we are at war? *We have always been at war with Oceania....We have always been at war with Oceania....*
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-17 00:33:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So aj as I understand it you are a self proclaimed racist "the Japanese value hard work and honor, traits you won't find in your common terrorist. They're in it to be martyred, to find an easy path to heaven."
And you place no value on human life so long as it lives far away from you "Yes. Why should I spend my money to save someone else's neck on the other side of the world?"
I honestly will respond to the rest of your comments tomorow, and anyone elses but for today I am done with ubersite, real life is calling.
Submitted by Hairsphincter (user info) at 2004-09-17 00:24:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
tshia, this is the utter bullshit and blinkered nationalism that sees planes flying in to buildings in the US, rail cars being blown to bits in Spain, holiday makers get blown to bits in Bali, Russian school children get slaugtered and whatever comes next.
Stop being an American for a while, and become a human. When you see the world as a global concern, your post will embarrass you.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-17 00:08:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"There are many brutal dictators in the world. There are also more Africans dying of AIDS than you or I can possibly fathom. There are untold crimes against women and children, against peaceful practitioners of Falun Gong in China, against Christians, against Jews, against Muslims, against Palestinians. WE ARE NOT GOING TO WAR OVER ALL OF THEM."
There is an old parable about a boy and his father who are walking along a beach after a storm. Thousands of starfish had been washed up on the shore where they couldn't breathe and they were slowly dying. As the two walked the boy would pause every so often and pick up a starfish and throw it back into the ocean.
After a while the father told the boy that there were so many starfish washed up that throwing a few starfish back in couldn't possibly make a difference. The boy leaned over and picked up a starfish he threw it into the ocean and answered "It will to that one".
There are MANY problems in the world, but they can only be solved one at a time. Arguing against solving one by claiming "there are so many other problems" is not only a defeatist attitude but it is rather foolish as well.
"WAR IS NEVER A SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAR ALWAYS REPRESENTS A RESOUNDING HUMAN FAILURE!!!!!!!
War is the failure of diplomacy. War is where civilzation ends and barbarism begins. War is unnacceptable. You speak of "our" war. Who the fuck are you? This is not my war. I hate this war and I hate seeing it blindly supported. I hate that we cannot work this out. I hate it with my heart. Your post makes me ill."
War is the ultimate foundation of every human society and it is the ultimate resolution to any human argument to believe otherwise is wishful thinking at best. Perhaps I was presumptuous in saying "our war" I cannot argue for the rationale of this war and I didn't try to, I attempted only to show what is, in my opinion, a valid and substantial link between Iraq and the terrorists who attacked the US on 9/11.
"Inalienable rights....tell it to the mothers whose children have died. Tell it to the people in Iraq right now. Tell it to me again and see how hard I slap you. This war has never been about inalienable rights. Nobody in politics today has a mouth clean enough to pronounce those words without making my skin crawl. No. This war is about many things, but not about inalienable rights."
Again I cannot speak as to what this war is about. I do not know, I would hazard a guess that our government is not fighting it for those reasons I listed earlier but in truth neither you nor I know. Their reasons are largely irrelevant though so long as the fore mentioned results still occur.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2004-09-17 00:02:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
MY God....I agree with Degreeless and AJ......
Submitted by Degreeless_Capibara (user info) at 2004-09-17 00:00:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This was so shite I can't believe it. I'm just glad this is during UM so nobody has to see this turd stain on most heated.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:58:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."
I guess that's why we're tearing down goverments in the Middle East again. Put Saddam in power, cry when he stops listening to our operatives. Tear down an elected government in Iran, cry when the people revolt and install a radical Islamic government.
Maybe they hate us because we keep fucking around in the vain hope of getting cheaper oil, huh?
Another interesting note on US foreign policy. We refuse to trade with Cuba because they are a communist country with a poor human rights record. But we sure do love China.
I don't advocate isolationism by any stretch of the imagination, but perhaps these hundreds of billions of dollars we're spending fucking up the Middle East worse than it has been would be better spent, I don't know, fixing problems here? I know several people who can't find a job and are no longer eligible for unemployment benefits.
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:51:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Two words to start out with: Pyrrhic victory. Look it up.
"War itself is actually quite beneficial for our economy. When the government spends money to make weapons that money goes to defense contractors, when the government raises an army it costs money which goes to our soldiers. From an economic standpoint war causes large amounts of currency to circulate and little else. Said circulation is what keeps the economy running."
*** Just because we're circulating lots of money, doesn't mean our economy is any stronger. There's this little number... it's called the budget deficit. Under Clinton, we had budget surpluses (I'm not saying that Clinton caused them, but he did do a good job managing them). Under W., we have a deficit from this year alone. JUST this year, of 700 billion dollars. Think about that. 700 billion. That's not just what we've spent, that's how much we've exceeded our financial limitations. That money's going to have to be paid back at some point. Maybe not in our lifetime, but in our childrens' and grandchildrens'. Just because you print and circulate money doesn't mean you have it. Take an economics class. ***
"As far as human life goes I believe the total of soldiers lost in Iraq is near a thousand. In the United States in the 2002 almost 15 times that many people were killed by intentional murders alone (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/2sectiontwo.pdf). A simple and sad fact of life is that people die, it is a horrible thing granted but the lost lives of our entirely volunteer army will eventually provide for the safety of millions of innocent civilians, the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, assuming our operation results in success."
*** How can you be so sure these people are going to be safe? In the past few months, the civilian safety levels in Baghdad, Kabul, and other major cities in the combat zones have dropped dramatically. Puppet police are being killed, the soldiers that are trying to provide that safety are being killed. This is a growing trend, and one that is likely to continue. We thought we would win Vietnam too. Shit happens. ***
"Yes, much of war revolves around the concept of killing your enemy. Some men, like those involved in the atrocities that occurred Iraq, need to be slain to ensure the safety of the masses."
*** Those atrocities were done in the means of achieving a political goal. If we were so concerned with the safety of those Iraqis, we would've finished helping them in 1991, and not let them be massacred. We helped with some of those atrocities by our inaction, and also by giving Saddam the weapons he used to murder his own people. ***
"I am fairly sure that the terrorists who destroyed the World Trade centers demonstrated the ability of people without massive weapons to cause massive amounts of damage. I am equally sure they proved that countries incapable of fielding their own air force had the capability to hijack planes."
*** This statement is shite, as these individuals are exactly that. Individuals. You can't pin their actions on any one country. I could go out right now with my car into a crowded part of town and blow it up. Neither am I capable of fielding my own air force, but I sure ruined some shit, didn't I? After Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City Building, did we wage war on ourselves? ***
"Granted the ability of Iraq to make a coordinated attack against America is and was zero, the possibility for them to launch terrorist attacks against us is apparently (cause I haven't seen any) low. However like I said these people were quite efficient at murdering their country men."
*** Wait, didn't you say we were worried about the safety of the masses a second ago? So backing up a bit, we're worried about the safety of the masses being threatened by a country that, in your words, has zero ability to make a coordinated attack against us, and the possibility for them to launch terrorist attacks is low. Where are the masses concerned? I'll get to their own people on my next point. ***
"And you have the gall to call me a war monger? So, what you are saying is, as long as you are not an American it doesn't matter if you die?"
*** Yes. Why should I spend my money to save someone else's neck on the other side of the world? I know it sounds selfish, but the question I pose to others is, why do other people care? If we cared so much, we would be in Sudan right now, fighting the good fight. But the situation's a clusterfuck, and Bush is scared shitless. So, if we care about all human life, why are we picking our battles? Shouldn't we be running around trying to save everyone? As you said, 15 times the number of troops killed in the Iraqi war were intentionally killed in one year in the United States. Civilians. Why don't we stop worrying about dying people in other countries, and invest some of that money here? Because women who are raped and murdered don't have oil. ***
"When Japan made a complete and unconditional surrender to the United States we modified their government, essentially rewriting their constitution, we prohibited them from having their own military, we installed a "puppet government" there and it turned out quite well. Japan is now an economic power house and a valued trading partner."
*** And why is that? Because they knew better than to fuck with us. We could have dropped another bomb on them at any time, and they knew it. Also, the Japanese value hard work and honor, traits you won't find in your common terrorist. They're in it to be martyred, to find an easy path to heaven. We can't nuke people if we don't know which ones are the enemy. That's a bullshit example. ***
"I might be wrong but didn't they also try to conquer Kuwait a few years back? Weren't they savagely slaughtering ethnic minorities? Haven't they been involved in aggressive military actions against Isreal"
*** Yes, they invaded Kuwait. IN 1991! They launched SCUDS against the Israelis in that same time period. The time for airing those grievances was in 1991, which we did by expelling them out of Kuwait WITH FULL UN SUPPORT. They also tried to invade Iran. Again, with weapons WE GAVE THEM. ***
The only connection between 9/11 and Iraq is that the US government fucked up in the 80's and gave them both (Osama and Saddam) a shitload of money to do what? To kill people for a political end. TO BE TERRORISTS. We paid them. Write your connection post about that and you'll get a +2 from me, and a helluva lot more people. With that being said, you really have no way of rescuing yourself here, so I'm going to go to sleep.
Remember to look up PYRRHIC VICTORY.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:47:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So, tshia, your argument is that this is just one giant cleanup of past foreign policy mistakes?
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:46:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This +2 is not for your shitty post, but for SpikeGoddess, who rules so hard.
---gib
Submitted by screamfeeder (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:43:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
SpikeGoddess, marry me.
Submitted by Legitch (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:41:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
If you want to make an impact or a difference, don't post an article, GO ENLIST.
Submitted by SpikeGoddess (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:38:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Were Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden friends? No. Did Hussein help Bin Laden coordinate or execute his attacks in anyway? No."
Angel, this question to which you have just responded in the negative is, in fact, the question which the poll was asking. The misinformation in this country that has been diseminated is piled so high on both sides that we're all steeped in rotting lies, but I can say with as much confidence as I say my mother's name is Joan that the Bush Administration mislead the public by cultivating the belief that Saddam Hussein was linked financially, tactically, and pragmatically to the terriorist activities on 9/11 and other Al Q plots.
There are many brutal dictators in the world. There are also more Africans dying of AIDS than you or I can possibly fathom. There are untold crimes against women and children, against peaceful practitioners of Falun Gong in China, against Christians, against Jews, against Muslims, against Palestinians. WE ARE NOT GOING TO WAR OVER ALL OF THEM. (Hell, I'd be happy if I could even KNOW about all of them, but it is impossible even though I try---and most Americans don't fucking try. They are buying Abercrombie and Prada and driving in their Range Rovers and eating rotten entrails from McDonald's while some nymphette who doesn't even own her own body or her own name sings with a digitally remastered voice about sex and innocence. We're so screwed that it's almost comical.) We cannot. We do not. We are so fucking shortsighted! Why don't we ask ourselves, "where do terrorists come from?" and then go to the root of the problem (which is fairly simple to identify but harder to fix----poverty, lack of education and upward mobillity, feelings of disenfrancisement that are based in a grim reality).
Ask yourself----"what would it take for me to become a suicide bomber?" Understand the desperation of that. Understand the passion and finality of it. Then understand that we will never win a war against THAT kind of passion and desperation because THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE and we are only in it with half of our hearts, at best. Look to history. Look to common sense.
The terrorists who attacked NYC on 9/11 did so because they believe that everything about this nation is sinful, evil, opposed to God's law, and opposed to their abillity to see God's law carried out in the world. They are victims of a sick mentality as well. But listen, they don't want to "dominate us". They want to eradicate us. They want to eradicate everyone who opposes them---including Saddam.
"Waging the war in Iraq is a costly business, for us as well as our allies, but the war is a resounding success. The news brings reports almost daily of captured or killed members of Al Quieda, the Taliban, or Saddam's regime. Men who had the power, the initiative, and the experience of killing not only American citizens, but their own countrymen, when our war is complete the world itself will be a safer place."
WAR IS NEVER A SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAR ALWAYS REPRESENTS A RESOUNDING HUMAN FAILURE!!!!!!!
War is the failure of diplomacy. War is where civilzation ends and barbarism begins. War is unnacceptable. You speak of "our" war. Who the fuck are you? This is not my war. I hate this war and I hate seeing it blindly supported. I hate that we cannot work this out. I hate it with my heart. Your post makes me ill.
"As an American I believe that every human born, regardless of the country of their birth, in entitled to certain unalienable rights, those of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Like my forefathers I believe that sacrifice is necessary to obtain these rights, they must be bought in blood."
Inalienable rights....tell it to the mothers whose children have died. Tell it to the people in Iraq right now. Tell it to me again and see how hard I slap you. This war has never been about inalienable rights. Nobody in politics today has a mouth clean enough to pronounce those words without making my skin crawl. No. This war is about many things, but not about inalienable rights.
The world needs a new paradigm, one that does not include blood sacrifice and lies.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:36:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
But being savagely oppressed by a brutal dictator is freedom? Don't presume to tell me what I care about Caulaincourt
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:35:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You are right spike; I chose those quotes at random. The United States didn't really achieve independence through terrorist means, part of the time leading to our declaration of independence was marked by terrorism or guerrilla fighters depending on your definition (guerillas attacking military through the same method as terrorists) but the actual independence was only gained when the United States put their own army on the field and fought the British.
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:33:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The connection between Iraq and 9/11...
...is nonexistent.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:29:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh and this -2 is for pretending you care about Iraqi's freedom.
If you did, you wouldn't agree with your government trespassing into their country to decide for them what's good or not. That's not freedom.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:26:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
These Iraq posts just remind me how americans are torn between each others. You will either get full support or a full plate of hot steaming excrement handed to you.
I'm not gonna call you stupid and shit but frankly, I don't understand your logic. There were events that led to 9/11. Such a wide extremist movement doesn't come out of nowhere. Extremists have to rally to a cause and this cause has to be kept alive. I think the US is doing just that by making the mistake of invading Iraq. The world wide support it once had is gone and it now gives the impression that the US is just as guilty as the terrorists.
Seeing that both parties are equally imputable, we're gonna be in this for a long time.
Of course there are many more factors to it but that's my opinion, simply put.
Submitted by SpikeGoddess (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:19:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" -Thomas Jefferson
"Give me liberty or give me death" -Patrick Henry
Let us not forget that the way The United States of America obtained her freedom from Great Britain was through terrorist means. You fail to see the irony in your quotes.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:11:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Where are your statistics, which allies, and what kind of a cost are you talking about here? The cost of human life, or the cost in monetary figures? Because by either measure, the war is NOT a resounding success"
I was referring to the cost of human life. War itself is actually quite beneficial for our economy. When the government spends money to make weapons that money goes to defense contractors, when the government raises an army it costs money which goes to our soldiers. From an economic standpoint war causes large amounts of currency to circulate and little else. Said circulation is what keeps the economy running.
As far as human life goes I believe the total of soldiers lost in Iraq is near a thousand. In the United States in the 2002 almost 15 times that many people were killed by intentional murders alone (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/2sectiontwo.pdf). A simple and sad fact of life is that people die, it is a horrible thing granted but the lost lives of our entirely volunteer army will eventually provide for the safety of millions of innocent civilians, the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, assuming our operation results in success.
"So what you're saying is that the war is a success just as long as we keep killing the enemy? Great strategy, asshole. With combat plans like that you could've run the Vietnam War."
Yes, much of war revolves around the concept of killing your enemy. Some men, like those involved in the atrocities that occurred Iraq, need to be slain to ensure the safety of the masses.
"As far as the power to kill American citizens... how the hell was Iraq going to do a damn thing to us when they couldn't even so much as have airplanes over two-thirds of their country? Pretty hard to senselessly kill Americans when you're locked in the confines of your own borders. Oh, but they had WMDs? Show me proof."
I am fairly sure that the terrorists who destroyed the World Trade centers demonstrated the ability of people without massive weapons to cause massive amounts of damage. I am equally sure they proved that countries incapable of fielding their own air force had the capability to hijack planes.
Granted the ability of Iraq to make a coordinated attack against America is and was zero, the possibility for them to launch terrorist attacks against us is apparently (cause I haven't seen any) low. However like I said these people were quite efficient at murdering their country men.
"Who gives a shit how many of their own countrymen they killed?"
And you have the gall to call me a war monger? So, what you are saying is, as long as you are not an American it doesn't matter if you die?
"The puppet government that we install will still have to be babied along by the presence of our troops for years, possibly even a decade."
When Japan made a complete and unconditional surrender to the United States we modified their government, essentially rewriting their constitution, we prohibited them from having their own military, we installed a "puppet government" there and it turned out quite well. Japan is now an economic power house and a valued trading partner.
"The only direct threat they made to anyone was when Saddam tried to have George H. W. Bush assassinated"
I might be wrong but didn't they also try to conquer Kuwait a few years back? Weren't they savagely slaughtering ethnic minorities? Haven't they been involved in aggressive military actions against Isreal
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-09-16 23:03:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Arguing about whether we should be there or not, or whether there is a connection or not is pointless. That we are there is a fait accompli. That we're not going anywhere in the near future is another. What people should be talking about is how to do the job we've set ourselves in the most efficient way so as to achieve our stated objectives.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:36:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
thank you aj and please do go on if you feel like it. It will take a moment or two to ready my responce
Submitted by cigar (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:21:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:19:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"The pen is mightier than the sword." How's that for a quote you fucking douchebag? Seriously, I really do hope you're not old enough to vote. By the way you write I assume that you're not- that or if you are old enough, you'll be too stupid to fill out the ballot.
"Waging the war in Iraq is a costly business,"
*** Good thing Halliburton is keeping the contracts we've given them at fair prices. Oh, wait. ***
"for us as well as our allies, but the war is a resounding success."
*** Where are your statistics, which allies, and what kind of a cost are you talking about here? The cost of human life, or the cost in monetary figures? Because by either measure, the war is NOT a resounding success. ***
"The news brings reports almost daily of captured or killed members of Al Quieda, the Taliban, or Saddam's regime."
*** So what you're saying is that the war is a success just as long as we keep killing the enemy? Great strategy, asshole. With combat plans like that you could've run the Vietnam War. And what I hear more often in the news is that American soldiers are coming home to Dover, Delaware in bodybags. Link me to the last story about an Al Qaeda operative being captured. Killing doesn't count, as if someone's dead you can sure as hell say any damned thing you want about them. Just another camel-jockey, right? 'We're gonna smoke 'em out of their holes.' ***
"Men who had the power, the initiative, and the experience of killing not only American citizens,"
*** Freeze. Just stop the fucking train right there. How many American citizens were killed by Iraqis or the Taliban before we were engaged in combat with them? I'm sure that you must mean civilians, because the picture you're painting is that it's terrible to kill American citizens, but it's okay for us to kill their citizens? It's war, asshole, of course "citizens" are going to get killed. Let's just take a look at how many men, women and children non-combatants that were killed on 9/11 compared to the number of non-combatant Afghanis and Iraqis killed since we started our military operations. I'm sure you'll find that they have a hell of a lot more reason to be pissed off than we do about civilian casualties. As far as the power to kill American citizens... how the hell was Iraq going to do a damn thing to us when they couldn't even so much as have airplanes over two-thirds of their country? Pretty hard to senselessly kill Americans when you're locked in the confines of your own borders. Oh, but they had WMDs? Show me proof. ***
"but their own countrymen, when our war is complete the world itself will be a safer place."
*** Who gives a shit how many of their own countrymen they killed? The French were loading the Jews onto trains in WWII, the Polish were killing their own Jewish neighbors when given the opportunity by the Nazis, but did we condemn either one of these countries for their actions or invade them for any other reason than expelling the German presence? The world will be a safer place? No. Maybe Iraq will be, but even that's looking like a stretch right now. The puppet government that we install will still have to be babied along by the presence of our troops for years, possibly even a decade. We're still in South Korea, for christ's sakes. There is just going to be more blood spilled over these government officials that are ruling the "New Iraq," and it's not going to be just Iraqi blood. Over a year after major combat operations were declared as 'Mission Accomplished,' we're still losing American soldiers. How was the world threatened by the Iraqis? The only direct threat they made to anyone was when Saddam tried to have George H. W. Bush assassinated. Well, I feel vindicated knowing that our former president is safe. That's a good reason to go to war. ***
"As an American... they must be bought in blood."
*** You're not only an idiot, but you're a war-monger too. Ever wonder how the US gets its bad image as guns-blazing, careless vigilantes? Shit like this. ***
Should I go on?
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:17:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I know, because I am such an insecure person.
Or maybe it's the fact that I don't want to associate with unbelievably thick headed people such as yourself.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:13:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ha ha ha, incidentally method is very insecure on instant messanger. He managed to sputter out a curse word or two before blocking me, its funny, i had always assumed the reason people did things like release their instant messanger screen names on public forums was to talk to people, guess not.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:07:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Dont ever instant message me again, you gaping fucknut
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:04:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
thank you.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 22:02:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and your idea of entertainment is writing the words "you are so fucking stupid" over and over again? You are very mature hidden.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:57:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm not going to point anything out. i'm not your english teacher, here to mark your mistakes in red.
i'm just here for the entertainment.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:56:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
aj, if you are so desperate for attention I will ask you the same thing I asked hidden.
Would you care to point out any errors or make any corrections to the logic or arguments I have presented here? I am curious if these are so wrong you should be able to tell me what is right.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:53:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have a question for you RyuFu, do you honestly think you are responding to an issue I addressed in my post? I was not attempting to justify the war in Iraq as I have already said two different times. I am not writing in favor of the war or against it, I am writing because legions of dumbasses such as yourself have latched on to the amazingly obvious fact that Iraq was not responsible for the 9/11 attack and are now blathering on about how there is no connection between Iraq and the terrorists who attacked us. How can I make this any simpler for you?
Since you brought it up though, " but it still doesn't give us the right to intervene with other nations on a whim". Tell me if you were one of the ethnic minorities targetted with genocide in Iraq would you want the US to intervene? If you were one of the countless numbers of people Saddam had tortured and killed would you want the US to intervene? If you were one of the poverty stricken civilians oppressed by Saddam would you want the US to intervene?
Global diplomacy is not like preschool. Not everyone is nice and willing to share and there aren't any rules. If you believe that one idealogy is not inherently wrong then you must believe that Might makes right and the war is justified. If you believe a culture can be inherently wrong then you must believe that the war was justified to liberate the people of Iraq.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:50:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And what the hell might your point be?
I can find a few connections between Saddam and Osama too!
1. both Arab
2. both male
3. both human
4. do you see how retarded this is yet?
When people say "there is no connection between Saddam and Osama/Iraq and 9-11," they are not referring to ideology, you goddamned idiot, so taking up an argument in which you equivocate on the word "connection" proves nothing other than the indisputable connection between you and stupid.
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:49:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Are you kidding me?
You're joking, right?
You're just playing dumb to inflame everyone?
Oh, you're not?
Holy shit.
I'm sorry.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:47:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good article, although it never hurts to proofread. Keeps people from sneering at your grammar. Hope you're ready for the shitstorm you'll have to deal with for the next little bit, though.
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yeah, you know what? Let's wage war against everyone with a different ideology! Yeah, great fucking idea. Let's bypass the UN if they try to stop our will, because we're Big Brother, and we help everyone out!
You know what, the US over the last century has pumped many billions of dollars into the world economy, but it still doesn't give us the right to intervene with other nations on a whim. No, it's not our foreign policy, it's George W.'s fucking whim, influenced by a scary religious right, huge corporations, and assholes like yourself.
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:42:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:51:20 (#)
Ranking: -2
i couldn't even read the whole thing. this is absolutely fucking horrendous.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:40:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
wow tom that clever analogy just tore my argument to shreds. Or at least it would have if it was at all related to what I posted.
Did I ever say Iraq was responsible for 9/11? No, I most certainly did not. I said there was a connection between those responsible and Iraq, I agree with you that other countries posses this same connection, other organizations and individuals do as well. I am largely unsure of whether this war is appropriate to engage in, I realize there are targets just as deserving and targets vastly more dangerous. That however, was not the purpose of this post. The purpose was to identify the connection because it annoys that many people do not believe it exists.
So, if in your little analogy someone (we will call him Mr. Bush) said he would declare war on all people similar to Bart then you would be one of those people, as you share an ideological connection to Bart.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:35:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hey I've got an idea. Lets back up wild allegations with some evidence! I haven't read a single post like this one, link to one if you have.
Submitted by Tom (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:35:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Rubbish. Absolute pathetic rubbish. "They're linked because of the same general ideology." BULL. SHIT.
Pretend Bart and I both hate Dell computers. We hold the same ideology about Dell's shitty computers. Bart decides one day that he's going to shoot up a Dell manufacturing place and it kills some people. Because I shared the same general ideology with him, am I guilty of the crime? Of course not.
You are a moron.
Submitted by AlahAckbar (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:30:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Hey! I've got a great idea! Lets find a post and repost it, but write it different so that no one will know that they are not my ideas!
Fucking die.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:26:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
well. as. convincing. an. argument. as. you. calling. me. stupid. is. would. you. care. to. point. out. any. errors. or. make. any. corrections. to. the. logic. or. arguments. I. have. presented. here? I am curious if these are so wrong you should be able to tell me what is right.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:10:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
tshia- seriously. just stop. Method is right. the only person able to match you in stupidity is Kellio. just give it up. you can't even spell.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 21:08:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
IamNotTheWorldTradeCenter
Whoah there jackass, don't assume you are smart, cause you aren't. Keep in mind that you are a dimwit when you try to respond to me and you will do much better, for advice on how to do this read Method's responces.
Did I ever say Iraq was responsible for 9/11? No, I most certainly did not. I said there was a connection between those responsible and Iraq, I agree with you that other countries posses this same connection, other organizations and individuals do as well. I am largely unsure of whether this war is appropriate to engage in, I realize there are targets just as deserving and targets vastly more dangerous. That however, was not the purpose of this post. The purpose was to identify the connection because it annoys that many people do not believe it exists.
" when you try to express a political observation and you have writing errors it makes it much less convincing. "
Writing errors? What, pray tell may those be? I realize that there are likely syntactical constructions you do not understand in this post, you are, afterall a dimwit, but I severely doubt that outside of a typo or two there are any signifigant errors here. Whereas in your short review several abound.
Submitted by CoachMagirk27 (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:56:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm too lazy to get involved in this one...
Submitted by IamNotTheWorldTradeCenter (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:55:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well North Korea, China, Libya, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Israel, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Pakistan, and every day more and more Russia also share this ideology. Are they also responsible for 9/11?
white supremacy groups in the Midwest as well as Basque separatists in northwest Spain share this ideology, are they responsible for 9/11?
those soldiers who tortured the prisoners in Abu Graib most certainly shared that ideology. and most likely shared yours. So, thanks a lot for 9/11. And proofread your post next time, when you try to express a political observation and you have writing errors it makes it much less convincing.
The truly pathetic thing is that now Iran is going to be able to develop nuclear weapons because they know we don't have enough troops to properly occupy their country, and we're so distracted.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:53:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
good point spooner, fuck what I wrote, they aren't connected. Like totaly
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:45:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yeah, fuck what the 9/11 Commission's Report says, Iraq and 9/11 are totally connected. Like, totally.
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:44:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
what is that suposed to mean
Submitted by Schwarzes_Glas (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:41:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yeah, I've seen "The Rock."
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:40:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hidden, I like how you can't even stand to read the whole thing but you still manage to force yourself to 3 reviews on it. Honestly, if you can't read it then why bother?
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-09-16 20:34:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
the war in iraq was a war of choice not urgency. Saddam never had the balls to fuck with us cuz all he wanted was to remain in power.
if bush knows whats best he would devide the country in 3 different ways before a civil war does.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:31:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Don't worry about Hidden101...he's a ex-drunk anti-conservative, socialist (maybe communist) lunatic. If it were up to him, he'd find all conservatives and execute them.
I wonder if someone ever told him that the majority of economists are conservative or libertarian... So what would happen if you get rid of them, too?
Submitted by superdude (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:27:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:22:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You had me at "The Connection Between Iraq and 9/11"
Submitted by Luckystar (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:15:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Were Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden friends? No.
--------
How do you know?
Submitted by MickGinny (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:10:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
whoa!
Submitted by cigar (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:10:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Most folks here are to goddamn blind to read this for what it is, the unbiased truth. Fuck em.
Submitted by gibberish (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:08:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm going to assume this is stupid.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:04:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You and Kellio should have a meeting of the minds. The black hole that would form from your collective stupidity would suck you both in, and the world would be a better place.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-09-16 20:03:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:51:20 (#)
Ranking: -2
i couldn't even read the whole thing. this is absolutely fucking horrendous.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:58:28 (#)
Ranking: 0
and this has nothing to do with my political stance. this is just plain dumb.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:57:12 (#)
Ranking: 0
domenad, i didn't think even you would agree with this one, but i guess i was wrong. this is moronic. seriously. i read half of it, and it's all i could stand.
Amen
Submitted by tshia2 at 2004-09-16 20:02:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by tshia2 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:46:44 (#)
Ranking: -2
die
Submitted by screamfeeder (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:59:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I wrote out a response about as long as post disassembling the incredibly philistine arguments you present. Then I realized that your beliefs are just as unbending as those of the terrorists.
You love America like a child loves its mother.
I love America like a mother loves its child.
When you learn the difference you will see how truly wrong you are.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:58:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and this has nothing to do with my political stance. this is just plain dumb.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:57:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
domenad, i didn't think even you would agree with this one, but i guess i was wrong. this is moronic. seriously. i read half of it, and it's all i could stand.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:55:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
GREAT
FUCKING
POST
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:53:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hidden is unable to comprehend anything more advanced than "The Pokey Little Puppy". If he actually read, he would know this is a +2, big time.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-09-16 19:51:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
i couldn't even read the whole thing. this is absolutely fucking horrendous.