An ill-informed question about Iraq! Please answer! (1014 hits)
Category: Politics -> IraqRating: 0.64 on 35 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by KoolMang (View user info) at 2004-09-22 18:43:00 EDT
I've heard many people saying that America sent their boys to war without proper kevlar. Well, how come every soldier I see on CNN TV has a flak-jacket on? Can someone explain to me what the hell is going on?
Favorite quote from Gladiator:
"A man once told me that death smiles at us all; all we can really do is smile back."
-Maximus Decimus Meridius
User Reviews
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-09-23 13:06:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't worry, if we ever meet, I'd beat the shit out of you, worthless gook.
Submitted by hcp28 (user info) at 2004-09-23 09:37:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I still hate you
Submitted by Banga3386 (user info) at 2004-09-23 02:54:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
See, this is why I've been comming to this site for the past couple of years (I've only just recently just started posting). The kind of informed and educated responses and further questions are what first excited me and interested me in Uber many moons ago and I'm very happy to see that it is still alive. Fuck all nay-sayers that say that Uber sucks or that they are leaving due to the "direction it is taking." If you don't like the direction we are going in, that's because YOU fucked up and aren't doing your job assholes! Sure the noobs don't get it yet but there are still some amazing people here who, even those who exhibit blatant racism and biggotry at times or always, can come up with intersting debates and conversation. Cheers to all of you, may you all fuck the wives and hubbies of the say-nayers in the pooper. Rock, rock on!
Submitted by jack11058 (user info) at 2004-09-23 02:24:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good questions. An old (ie: non-Interceptor type) flak vest will barely stop a 9mm parabellum or smaller, and CAN stop some shrapnel, provided it doesn't fly in edge first. These will also not stop a knife strike (in the late 1990's an ROTC cadet demonstrated this by saying "Look, these vests will stop a knife strike!" then fatally stabbing his best friend in the heart).
Indeed, many troops who went to Iraq or Afghanistan did not have the interceptor armor (not to mention proper armor for humvees). My unit purchased vests for us, but my unit was cheap, so our vests were of little use. We wore the newly purchased vests under the old flak vests. That got hot in 100 degree weather.
If you want to hear about what it was like over there from one man's perspective, check out my "Adventures in the Smelly Sandbox" series.
Submitted by Degreeless_Capibara (user info) at 2004-09-22 22:42:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't think the US cared about collateral damage when they bombed the holy shit out of Libya, did they? That's why there was that huge shit about the little daughter of the dictator, remember?
Submitted by sketch9 (user info) at 2004-09-22 22:33:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Discussions like this are why i love ubersite.
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-09-22 22:25:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-09-22 18:43:15 (#)
Ranking: -2
You know what? Every day I try to think of ways to suck, and you out do me every damn time. Fuck you, KoolMang.
Submitted by professorfuckface (user info) at 2004-09-22 22:19:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Something Awful did some kind of a fund raiser to buy the new kevlar for a bunch of guys going, because the army wouldn't supply it.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-09-22 21:22:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:09:26 (#)
Ranking: 1
Good question.
Say what you will about US policies, but nobody can deny our military's ability to kick ass.
Just a suggestion as to why America doesn't win wars like it used to: no carpet bombing of heavily populated areas. At the end of WWII, the enemies of the allies were heavily demoralized by the realization that war is hell after years of allied bombing of cities and industries. We didn't care too much about collateral damage back then. These days our humanity is starting to catch up to us since one of the main victories in war comes psychologically.
If you can kill the morale of your enemy, you've pretty much won. Precision bombing hardly does that, yet it is much more humane.
2 problems with this.
One, just about every military study out there has shown that bombing the civilian population is ineffective in destroying enemy morale. Every single one. Rather not dig into my books to find citations but hit me back if ya want and I'll do so.
Also, we very much did care about collateral damage. Thats why the Norden bombsight was so overhyped and overused, and part of the reason why the French hated us after WWII. They believed our propaganda about how accurate United States bombers were, and so when a few frogs died they assumed we did it on purpose.
But the fear of collateral damage is very much the reason the United States was the only ally during WWII to fly daytime missions, exposing those very big B-17 bombers to Anti aircraft fire from the ground. Everyone else, brits included, flew night-time only
Submitted by Mohammed at 2004-09-22 20:53:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You may have carpet bombing. But we have Persian Rug!
hahahAllahahahahAllahahahAllahAkbar!
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-09-22 20:49:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
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Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:09:26 (#)
Ranking: 1
Good question.
Say what you will about US policies, but nobody can deny our military's ability to kick ass.
Just a suggestion as to why America doesn't win wars like it used to: no carpet bombing of heavily populated areas. At the end of WWII, the enemies of the allies were heavily demoralized by the realization that war is hell after years of allied bombing of cities and industries. We didn't care too much about collateral damage back then. These days our humanity is starting to catch up to us since one of the main victories in war comes psychologically.
If you can kill the morale of your enemy, you've pretty much won. Precision bombing hardly does that, yet it is much more humane.
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I had this very discussion today with someone. So true...but unfortunate. So easy to fix problems in the sunni triangle (carpet bomb them)...but we can't. So why bother trying to win a war we can't fight to win. Didn't we learn that in Vietnam? You can't be P.C. in war. God knows these muslims extremists aren't.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-09-22 20:27:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-09-22 20:13:20 (#)
Ranking: -2
The U.S. has invaded Canada twice, and has been repulsed twice by the valiant Canadians.
I'm not kidding - once during the Revolutionary War and once during the War of 1812. Go look it up. There's even statues commemorating the Canadian victories and everything.
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These weren't canadians, they were British, in a colony. India and South Africa might at as well take credit for this war too while you're at it.
It's pointless anyway since we couldn't possibly withstand another US invasion. The NYPD outmaches our domestic army.
Submitted by Zeccs (user info) at 2004-09-22 20:21:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Cool gladiator quote fuck face!
Submitted by CoreaPeekay (user info) at 2004-09-22 20:17:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah but thats when the canadians were brittish, and america was young razor. We'd pwn canada now. no doubt. but not without retaliation by NATO, as well as mounties and beavers.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-09-22 20:13:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The U.S. has invaded Canada twice, and has been repulsed twice by the valiant Canadians.
I'm not kidding - once during the Revolutionary War and once during the War of 1812. Go look it up. There's even statues commemorating the Canadian victories and everything.
Submitted by Spiral_Abraxis (user info) at 2004-09-22 20:04:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:31:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Koolmang, a somewhat interesting link "War Plan Red" (invading canada): http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcanadawar.html
I don't think it would be politically clever for the US to invade us. If Iraq pissed off the world, imagine how invading a democratic country could cause upset. Unless of extreme cases, I don't see why they would change from the statu quo. It's not like we're very different and they pretty much control economic issues.
Besides, it's more likely that canadian provinces could demand statehood than the US conquering them. Some people in your province are already asking: http://www.ontariousa.org/
Submitted by Yams (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:26:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
The Canadian government is harboring evil people, and you know what that means. I'm coming to annex you fuckers, once and for all.
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:25:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
My flak jacket couldn't stop a small rock tossed at me by a child. Thats why they gave me a .50 cal. GET SOME!
Submitted by YourMom <your.at.mom.com> at 2004-09-22 19:16:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:13:16 (#)
Ranking: 0
Another question: it seems that all American troops are doing is fighting people of dark skin colour these days. I hear about how some extremists want to annex Canada, and I'm just wondering, if you were sent to help take our country, could you honestly shoot a man of the same ethnicity?
What about a British soldier? These days, humanity kicks in so that people who have lived in peace for generations cannot fight eachother no matter what. Am I right?
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Dude, we don't just go to war with people of darker skin because they're darker. We went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq because those governments were harboring evil people. If it came out that the Canadian government was giving aid to Osama, you better believe that we'd come after your ass, too.
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:13:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Another question: it seems that all American troops are doing is fighting people of dark skin colour these days. I hear about how some extremists want to annex Canada, and I'm just wondering, if you were sent to help take our country, could you honestly shoot a man of the same ethnicity?
What about a British soldier? These days, humanity kicks in so that people who have lived in peace for generations cannot fight eachother no matter what. Am I right?
Submitted by YourMom <your.at.mom.com> at 2004-09-22 19:12:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The controversy is that Bush pushed an aid package through Congress that provided for more funding and distribution of the interceptor vests once the war started. However, morons like Kerry voted against it, even though during the convention he said he would, "give soldiers everything they need to defend themselves." Well, John, I think a vest would be a good start. This was also the aid package that Kerry has said he "voted for before he voted against" ... whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.
Submitted by GodChicken (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:01:59 (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, GodChicken, when you left Iraq, what shit did you get to keep from your soldier kit? Like, do you get to keep your M16, your pistol, basically anything you carried with you in patrols, what did you keep?
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I got to keep my uniforms and the backpacks and such I bought for myself.
I never carried a weapon. I was a non-combatant role this time. Despite going out now and again to more remote outposts.
All my other gear, sleeping bags, Interceptor vest, and other combat-related gear was returned today, actually. It is going back out with someone else, I am sure.
I have a few photos and some memories. Thats about all I ever keep.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:09:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Good question.
Say what you will about US policies, but nobody can deny our military's ability to kick ass.
Just a suggestion as to why America doesn't win wars like it used to: no carpet bombing of heavily populated areas. At the end of WWII, the enemies of the allies were heavily demoralized by the realization that war is hell after years of allied bombing of cities and industries. We didn't care too much about collateral damage back then. These days our humanity is starting to catch up to us since one of the main victories in war comes psychologically.
If you can kill the morale of your enemy, you've pretty much won. Precision bombing hardly does that, yet it is much more humane.
Submitted by DamienX (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:08:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I helped eradicate a middle eastern dictatorship...
and all I got was this lousy kevlar t-shirt"
Submitted by GodChicken (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:04:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
the plates will take multiple impacts.
The older vests.. ? I'll leave an army or marine guy to answer that one, but I think its mostly the smaller stuff like pistols and shrapnel. Part of munitions is how much powder they put in there, if you put a bunch in, even a small caliber round becomes far more lethal.
That vest was my best friend when I got stuck (not struck) during a gunfight in Ramadi.
Submitted by User10030 (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:03:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think a normal flak jacket stops a 9mm and shrapnel. What we need is more gruesome weapons though, fuck that UN thing, whatever it is. When have we ever listened to the Un anyway? I say, since we're already killing innocent women and children, we go balls to the wall. Lets drop gas andnuclear shit all over those motherfuckers. Then, we get these high-tech lead covered vehicles, and people wearing those special radiation suits, and we go pump the radioactive oil right the fuck out of the charred ground. That way, everyone wins. Vote me for president '04.
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:01:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, GodChicken, when you left Iraq, what shit did you get to keep from your soldier kit? Like, do you get to keep your M16, your pistol, basically anything you carried with you in patrols, what did you keep?
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-09-22 19:00:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I always thought that, if my assumption was correct, there were not so many U.S soldiers out patrolling, the ones with flak jackets were out patrolling, and the ones without were doing menial jobs etc.
I wish I was a U.S soldier in Iraq, then I could be a hero.
Submitted by Lost_Gator_Fan (user info) at 2004-09-22 18:58:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Flak Jackets are designed to stop shrapnel not bullets.
Submitted by KoolMang (user info) at 2004-09-22 18:56:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So what kind of round is a usual flak jacket supposed to be able to withstand?
Submitted by GodChicken (user info) at 2004-09-22 18:52:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The issue is that the new INTERCEPTOR vests are not in stock in sufficient quantities to outfit everyone that needs them. I waited until the day before I left before I managed to get ahold of mine.
The Interceptor vest has a front and rear ceramic plate designed to take the impact of a standard 7.62mm assault rifle round.
They're fucking heavy, too.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Interceptor+Vest&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=ff
Vest itself is fairly cheap, the plates are $600 and more.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-09-22 18:51:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
There is OLD and NEW style "flak vests". The helmets have been the same for years...
The army was in the middle of phasing out old ones, so when this thing kicked off... They needed to rush these better protective "new" flak vests out there to everyone. Also, many units have the vests but not the protective plates that go into them. (Like mine....fuckers!) So while they would slow down a round, it probably wouldn't stop it.
Of course, catch a bullet in your face and you're screwed anyways.
Submitted by dwr_budr (user info) at 2004-09-22 18:49:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Whenever a soldier gets killed the military takes his jacket back, patches the holes with Bondo, and ships them back out to the front.
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-09-22 18:45:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
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