The Japanese are not like us and I think I'd kill someone if I lived there (1924 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 1.76 on 75 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Nicole <nakita963.at.yahoo.com> (View user info) at 2004-11-11 12:26:10 EST
Previous posts in my Japan series:
The Japanese are not like us, but I get a kick out of them
http://www.ubersite.com/m/35360
The Japanese are not like us, at least we're not as sexually repressed http://www.ubersite.com/m/36486
There are times when I have felt shame at being an American. The 2000 election debacle, the torture of prisoners in Iraq, just about any time Bush opens his mouth. I'm sure everyone has similar feelings, no matter their nationality. Other times I want to kneel down and kiss the ground, thankful that I was born and grew up here. This past year I had a couple such enlightening experiences when I visited Japan.
I imagine living in Japan wouldn't be too bad, if I were male. The fact that I was born with a vagina, though, means I'm perfectly happy where I am. Given that I am a foreigner, I am sure I was not exposed to anywhere near the full brunt of Japans sexist culture, but what I saw was enough to cause me to be thankful I was born where I was.
This past April, and again a couple months ago, I went on a business trip to Japan where I visited my company's offices and worked on development projects with my Japanese counterpart, surprisingly also a female engineer, referred to as N-san in this post. One of the first things I noticed on my way to the hotel were all of the fish shaped wind socks everywhere. N-san explained that these fish were carp and that they were flown to celebrate one of Japans major holidays coming up in a few weeks - the boys' holiday. It is some sort of celebration for male children that goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. Recently the government has started a girls' holiday but interestingly enough no one celebrates it. I get the feeling that the girls' version was started by the government to try and make it appear to other cultures that they gave equal importance to females in their society. Too bad that is all it is, appearance.
On the first day I went out to lunch with N-san, her boss, and 4 other male coworkers. It was raining a bit outside so we used umbrellas to walk to the local sushi bar. When we arrived all 4 men handed their umbrellas to N-san, who was dutifully waiting at the entrance, for her to properly wrap and stow. It is at this point that I realized that I, with my Western upbringing and my not-so-meek (alright, downright bitchy) demeanor, would not get along well here for long periods of time. Those umbrellas would have been stowed somewhere warm, decidedly uncomfortable and not terribly dry.
After lunch, I started noticing the male/female interactions more. The female always assumed the subservient role no matter the situation. Any time we were in meetings and copies needed to be made or we ran out of water, it was N-san who was sent to run the errands, though there were at least 4 other men of equal rank in the room. N-san's manner towards her boss was incredibly attentive. She was always there with what ever he required, always paying attention to whatever he said, while the other men in the room appeared to be more absorbed in their own thoughts. I was not the only one who noticed this as other American men in my party made comments about the male-female dynamics.
During my first trip to Japan, which was without any of my coworkers, I attended a going away party for one of the Japanese managers who was being transferred to our location in China. Like good Japanese, everyone proceeded to get pretty tipsy. I talked with the manager in whose honor the celebration was being held for about 15 minutes during which time he hit on me hard-core. This wasn't your average drunken coworker flirting type activity. This was a "this guy is old enough to be my father and I feel incredibly uncomfortable even though I am drunk" type thing. N-san saw the manager talking to me and when we got a moment alone she apologized for his behavior explaining that he "is very lonely in China. He has no friends and doesn't speak Chinese so it is very difficult for him." Right, so that gives him reason enough to molest coworkers. Got it.
The next evening I went out to dinner with three women from the company, N-san and two secretaries. In our conversations I learned that all three women lived with their parents even though the youngest was 28 years old. In Japan, if a woman doesn't want to be looked down on she must live with her parents until she is married. Single men generally live in company run dormitories, as it is cheaper and more convenient than living on their own. There are no company women dorms. Because N-san had to live with her parents she was forced to commute 1.5 hours each way to work.
The following weekend N-san took me sightseeing in Kyoto. While we were walking about town we had plenty of time to talk. At the golden temple in Kyoto (see picture below) we sat down for a snack of traditional green tea and a dense cake thing. If you remember the scene in Karate Kid II where the Japanese girl makes tea for Ralph Macchio by whisking a powder in the water that is what I am talking about. The tea is incredibly strong and frothy.
As I was sipping my green foamy mixture we started to talk about our personal lives. I explained how my boyfriend of 5 years and I had broken up about 5 months previous. She was absolutely shocked. To date someone for so long and then break up was tragic in her mind, even though the breakup was for good reasons and was probably the best thing to do.
Next she asked me a question that completely floored me. Did I think that one needs both passion and comfort in a relationship or is comfort enough? She was in a 7 year relationship in which neither party felt very passionate towards the other person and hadn't in many years, yet they were still together. N-san was a 29 year old woman stuck in a relationship with someone she didn't have strong feelings for all because of social pressures. She explained that there are very strong and conflicting pressures on Japanese women today. On one hand they are expected to go to school and get graduate degrees which means they will be in school until they are in their mid 20's. But they are also expected to have married by the time they are about 21 and be starting a family. Oh, and I failed to mention that after they receive their graduate degrees they are expected to take jobs for which they are way over-qualified compared to their male counterparts. Nothing like getting a graduate degree to become in essence a glorified secretary.
I felt like I had stepped back in time. I explained that in the US, we believe that there needs to be both "passion and comfort" in a relationship, that the more educated a woman is, the less pressure there is for her to get married young if at all. It is perfectly acceptable for a woman to never marry. I could tell that while I tried to explain American relationships and expectations placed on women in our society she found the concept foreign but alluring. I told her that if I were in her position, in a relationship where I didn't feel anything for my boyfriend and only felt compelled to stay in it because of social pressures, I would break it off. I again explained that I had recently broken off a 5-year relationship myself, addressing her concerns that she had wasted her time and it was too late to start over. The fact that a highly educated, beautiful, intelligent and funny 29-year-old woman would be worried about such things scared the shit out of me.
When I returned to Japan in September I had the opportunity to ask N-san how her personal life was going she told me that she had broken it off with her boyfriend. I actually screamed and clapped my hands in joy. When I asked her how she was doing with it she said that she is sometimes happy, sometimes sad and obviously not sure about her decision. I tried to reassure her by saying I was very proud that she had the strength to make the hard decision and things would get better. Afterwards I started wondering if maybe I shouldn't have interfered, if I shouldn't have encouraged her to break up with her boyfriend. What do I know? I'm an outsider spreading Western culture in places that may not be ready for it.
The status of women in Japan is horrible by our standards. I hope that as the Japanese become more integrated into the world this particular aspect of their culture will change, though they may fight. I hope that Japanese women will become more forthright and demand better treatment. Whether Western influence is good or bad, I will continue to try and spread our beliefs about the status and treatment of women as much as I can. It may not be much, but it is something.
The next post in my Japan series will be about the entertaining Japanese porn available in my hotel room.
User Reviews
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-05-17 08:42:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-05-17 08:26:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You are right. Jap men are sexists, but who are we to judge? Just stay out of Japan, and you'll be fine.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-11-16 15:48:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
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Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2004-11-12 16:36:47 (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh okay. It's really frustrating that multilingual competency is pushed in other countries more than it is here.
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That is sad, but for a good reason. We don't need it. Would it help us culturally and individually? Definitely yes. But most other countries don't learn multiple languages for the hell of it. It is out of necessity. English is the business language around the globe. The airline industry kinda boosted us up in that category.
Will someone from England please enlighten us on if multiple languages are encouraged there or is it like the United States? Australia, too.... I'm guessing it is nothing like the Netherlands where many of the people speak Dutch/German/English almost at a MINIMUM. (I've known people that spoke 5 languages from the Netherlands. Those 3 with French & Portuguese.)
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-16 13:07:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Catscradle - Your goddamn shirt was ironed days ago and place on your bed before you tossed it off, into the corner to get dirty and wrinkled again. All my hard work down the drain.
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-11-16 09:35:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Caulaincourt -
"I dress as a choir boy and have sex with aged men I meet on the Internet."
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And I never thought I'd ever have anything in common with Caulain...
Submitted by 10c7c (user info) at 2004-11-15 11:40:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
im not reading all that, ill assume it was something good about japan.
anything negative about japan is usually written in jealousy.
japanese women own american women. full stop.
of course if you have a vagina your better off in america.
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-11-15 11:26:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Makes my blood boil.
Good thing I wasn't there, forget breaking up with her boyfriend, she'd probably be on a killing spree right now.
Submitted by catscradle (user info) at 2004-11-12 17:50:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Iron my shirt, bitch!
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2004-11-12 16:36:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh okay. It's really frustrating that multilingual competency is pushed in other countries more than it is here.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-12 13:30:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Durae, no I don't speak Japanese, other than greetings and food and the blessing you say before a meal. She was fluent in English.
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2004-11-12 13:02:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
you live in boston now?
i am also from boston, but termporarily displaced.
im me - timdwpi
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2004-11-12 02:03:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Why have I never heard of this before?
You are indeed right to bring correct Western values to this medieval culture!
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-11-12 01:51:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Ah, I just read your replied Nicole. Throwing a little sociology type of stuff out there? Ethnocentrism & Cultural diffusion. Easy to spot in your comments.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2004-11-12 01:41:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
AHhaha. I was in Korea for 3 years, and it is similar but not nearly as bad as Japan.
Women in the workplace are still treated poorly, but at home it is not nearly as bad as Japanese culture.
Japanese porn in the hotel? Good god, they are twisted weird ass bastards. I heard the thing they are into are collecting the underwear of teenagers along with a few photos of them wearing the item and removing it. Just plain bizarre....underwear collecting as if it were pokemon monsters. "Collect them all".
Weird culture.
http://www.engrish.com
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2004-11-12 00:22:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This was really interesting, I had no idea what things were really like. I mean I've seen a few random articles about the incredibly low marriage rate, but my Japanese professor made those children holidays seem more equal. Maybe because she wants to believe in it. She's a Japanese woman who moved here and married an American man, so she must be aware of the contrast.
On the other hand you have this trend of white guys going for Asian women because of their stereotypic subservience. Japanese sexism is displayed blatantly, but it's still here too in maybe more covert ways. I wouldn't even consider the U.S. any sort of benchmark for equality, unless it's by comparison. God that's depressing.
Out of curiousity, do you speak Japanese or were you talking to those women in English?
Submitted by I_Have_a_Kristen_Fetish (user info) at 2004-11-11 19:14:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
No pictures this time?
Submitted by Drone_of_Industry (user info) at 2004-11-11 18:54:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2004-11-11 18:25:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2004-11-11 17:14:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i like nicole
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-11-11 16:41:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
When are people going to learn? There are about three or four people you shouldnt argue with on this site. Nicole is one of them. Well written and well defended.
Submitted by Lunch_Pail (user info) at 2004-11-11 16:26:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I shoulda read all the reviews before posting. Because I need to give ulfgabe a piece of my mind.
Ulfgabe- you are a douchebag, straight up. You obviously have never had a girlfriend or gotten laid. Thats why you say theyre only good for cooking and cleaning. As far as beating goes- if I ever saw you or anyone else for that matter hit a woman I would seriously fuck them up or die trying- I dont care how big they are. Hitting a woman is never acceptable. Its kinda funny- the first fight ever in my life was because i saw a kid push a girl. I was in 1st grade and I walked straight up to him and said why dont you try that on me. It was a pretty brutal fight really- he started beating me with his shoe!! LOL. I was one tuff little bastard and never backed down- he eventually ended up crying after several knees to the gut.
Ulfgabe go back to your hole you racist,stereotypical, sexist piece of inbred shit.
Submitted by Lunch_Pail (user info) at 2004-11-11 16:06:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Ok, I hope noone here takes this post the wrong way. ive had a couple of shitass relationships lately and frankly Im a little bit down on American women. sorry ladies.
This post is great- dont get me wrong, things do need change in asia. However they do not need to start acting like american women.
The past 3 girls Ive been with have not cared to make me happy one bit. NONE!!! And frankly Im starting to think all american ladies are like this. I dont like the idea of having a foot massage- but I do want to find a woman that will make me happy. what makes it even worse is the fact that Im about the sweetest guy in the world- especially towards the ladies. I think that in a relationship both parties should try to make the other happy, in my last 3 however it has been all me making them happy and them taking advantage of me at every turn.
Chris rock said it best. "The key to a relationship is to be on the same page- shes all about what she wants and once you get on that page its all good"
The worst one, Vicky as we will call her, was one rotten bitch to say the least. She started off as a sweetheart but that shit quickley changed and honestly I think I may have been to nice to her. I would bring her flowers at random- a 20 minute drive each way. I wasnt looking to bring the flowers, come in and get laid or anything like that, I was bringing them to make her happy. I would do always do random stuff like that- bring her food, whatever it might have been. Thats just the way I am- All I want is to make the people I care about happy. Thats how my friends and family see me especially, someone who will do anything to make them happy- I love making people happy. Anyway this rotten bitch had the nerve to lie nonstop- I NEVER LIE so that makes me even more pissed, she tried to get on one of my friends then blamed it on him so I would kick his ass. i just about did too- thank god i didnt. BITCH!
Just my 2 cents. Maybe asian american girls are the key!! Not too americanized not to asian (tryin to message my feet, ICK,LOL)
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2004-11-11 16:04:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
That kind of subservient bullshit still exists in America too, although it's not widely spoken of. For example, my sister is looked down upon by her in-laws because she refuses to be a maid on top of making more than my bro-in-law. Nevermind the fact that she got him his current job. Bah, but there are worse situations out there.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 15:48:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Davros, I never meant to say it isn't worse in other places. That is a given.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 15:47:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
If you take out the extreme rural China and look at industrialized China they are pretty progressive with respect to women. It probably has something to do with the poverty and communism. In the workplace, women are treated pretty well. The women are expected to carry their own weight and contribute equally and are given the same treatement as men, probably brought on in part by their communistic view of life. They take on leadership and management roles in the workplace frequently. Actually, one male Japanese manager transferred to China and was disturbed at the number of women in leadership roles.
You can bet that if the Japanese had the same poverty and rural lifestyle as well as population control as does China, they would be killing their baby girls too. Infanticide usually only happens in the poor, rural areas of China where there is enough enforcement of the law to only allow them a child or two, but not enough to keep them from killing a baby. If they could have unlimited kids, they wouldn't kill them off.
The point of this post was to comment on the contradictory pressures that Japanese women feel and that American women feel to a lesser extent. Once we American women have our degrees, there isn't nearly the pressure to get married and have kids whereas Japanese women feel the pressure to do both at the same time - they just get their Master's degrees and get married at the same time and take jobs they are over qualified for and remain subsurvient to their men.
My opinions are based on my limited experience and the impressions that I and other coworkers have. They most certainly do not apply to the entire population. I just think it sad that this is the impression that I now have when I went in not expecting anything of the sort.
Submitted by Davros (user info) at 2004-11-11 15:23:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Interesting and well written.
It is a sad state of affairs that any person should be repressed because of their gender/race/religion etc.
I realise you are writing from your experiences and respect that.
However, I have to think that for women in strict muslim countries would regard the "freedoms" that Japanese women have as amazing.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it is all relative.
Good piece though.
-Davros
Submitted by seanfogy (user info) at 2004-11-11 15:21:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Japan is worse than China? Are you insane? Are we thinking of the same China? The one thats right below Russia and above India? China is by far one of the worst. Is this the same China that many married couples abandon their baby girls so they can raise a boy? They just throw baby girls away because girls are shameful, and youre telling me that Japan is worse than China?
My experiences? I lived in Japan. I actually just moved back to the US a few months ago. I have dated Japanese women and met their families. Contrary to my expectations, I didnt catch any flack from their families (being a gaijin and all). Even the married Japanese couples that I was friends with acted very civil and respectful towards eachother.
In the same light, I have also dated Phillipino women. If you feel that Japanese women are repressed, you should see the PI. The women there are basically servants to the men. They lay out the man's clothes in the morning for him, breakfast is made when he wakes up, she takes care of the kids while he is working and if he wants to go out drinking with coworkers, she just has to deal with it and ensure that dinner is on the table when he gets home. There were days I would get home from work, and Lynn would take off my boots and massage my feet because thats the way she was raised. To serve. By no means did I expect this or even feel comfortable with it (mainly because feet stink when you've been wearing work boots) but she actually enjoyed it. Me being pleased and happy made her happy. That's just their culture.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2004-11-11 15:17:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
most entertaining post, Nicole!
I will now read everything you've written, but do post on more Nihon-jin, kudasai.
Arigato!
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 15:11:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
aahaahaha, poor Jared.
Submitted by JMG114 (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:57:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
It's amazing how much we take for granted in America, with regards to romantic love and passion. I wonder if I should start dating Japanese girls.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:56:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Ya, probably best to stick to the "The South is a bunch of ignorant fucks" type posts, though those are almost too easy.
Submitted by Quartermain (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:54:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Good post. I read an interesting book recently called 'Hokkaido Highway.' It's written by a Canadian who is teaching English in Japan and decides to hitchhike the length of Japan following the cherry blossoms. There are a lot of interesting vignettes about Japanese culture, especially about the changing role of Japanese women.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:50:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/51244#951980
I know all that honey.
Maybe it's time I get out of the closet...I dress as a choir boy and have sex with aged men I meet on the Internet.
No, seriously, Uber permits me to relief stress so I tend to intentionally start shit flinging wars with random user. But lately, my attempts have made me look more like a prick than anything else (I'm not suggesting I'm not a prick here). I should stick to insulting retards and new users or I'll keep getting my ass handed to myself by some actually intelligent people.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:46:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Actually, Japan is one of the WORST countries in Asia when it comes to sexism, far behind China, sadly. I had no preconceived notions before this experience. None. I actually thought that Japan would be more similar to the US in this respect than it was. My male co-workers some who have recently started interacting with the Japanese and some who have been interacting for 20 years feel the same way. It isn't just me and it isn't a figment of my imagination.
And what, may I ask, has been your experience with social pressures and sexism as it exists in Japan? I'm not talking about your projection of Japanese culture based on Japanese-Americans either.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:41:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:20:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
Crap, something I can actually agree with Caulaincourt on. I better get ready for the apocalypse. I also hate that stereotypical American attitude, though I see it in just about every culture I have had extensive contact with. The German way is always the best. The Belgians know the solution and you Americans must be wrong. Neither of these groups will usually listen to you even when you have had vastly more experience regarding the situation than they have. The Japanese don't expect anyone to be able to understand their language as it so incredibly complex and are amazed that we barbarians can actually use chopsticks. The French and Italians, well, you get the picture.
I think it best to realize that every culture thinks theirs the best to some extent. Just deal with it and try to not perpetuate the attitude. Also, try not to kill the Belgians though it may be hard when they get going on the Belgian Fries. In my travels I've never expected anyone to know English. I try to learn the basics and get by on gestures if I have to. Why would anyone travel thousands of miles to eat at a Burger King?
===================================================
and there you have it.
Submitted by seanfogy (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:36:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Social pressures my ass.
The only reason I can possibly fathom that she was afraid of breaking off her relationship with this man was because she was raised in a conservative family, he was rich and her parents would be disappointed. If two americans were in a relationship for seven years, there would certainly be pressures from family to get married, have kids and the like.
I might also add that your friend is dumb. If she is in a relationship with this guy an feels nothing, yet still stays with him, it's her fault. Don't blame society. In the very same sense, the same exact shit goes on here in the US, and to an even greater extent. Dumb women getting beat by their boyfriends or husbands, but they never leave. It IS the same.
What would make you think that it would be any different? I'll tell you what it is. It's a preconceived notion you have in your head about foriegn cultures. Sure, Japan is a bit behind the times compared to America, but it is well ahead of any other Asian culture.
Spend a little more time there, actually learn about modern Japanese culture by yourself and you would come to see that in many ways, Japan is America. It's just a little smaller and the people there talk funny.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:20:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Crap, something I can actually agree with Caulaincourt on. I better get ready for the apocalypse. I also hate that stereotypical American attitude, though I see it in just about every culture I have had extensive contact with. The German way is always the best. The Belgians know the solution and you Americans must be wrong. Neither of these groups will usually listen to you even when you have had vastly more experience regarding the situation than they have. The Japanese don't expect anyone to be able to understand their language as it so incredibly complex and are amazed that we barbarians can actually use chopsticks. The French and Italians, well, you get the picture.
I think it best to realize that every culture thinks theirs the best to some extent. Just deal with it and try to not perpetuate the attitude. Also, try not to kill the Belgians though it may be hard when they get going on the Belgian Fries. In my travels I've never expected anyone to know English. I try to learn the basics and get by on gestures if I have to. Why would anyone travel thousands of miles to eat at a Burger King?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:02:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm just tired of close-minded...trying desperatly not to make a generalization and say americans...people who travel to other countries and say things like "OMG They don't even speak english" or "Look at their culture, it's so backward!" or "Finally a Burger King! 'bout time we find some decent food! (actual quote I heard on the street)" I see it all the time and it pisses me off.
But you made a point and I did overreact here with my usual crappy assumptions so...
*waves stereotypical white flag* :)
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 14:00:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Hidden, remember that for a large percentage of the female population, our personalities in the bedroom can be at odds with our personality out of the bedroom.
Just as sometimes you get all "peopled" out and need some time alone to balance the time you spend with everyone else, often you need to be the submissive one when the rest of your life involves you being the dominant one.
Submitted by TigerLilly (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:59:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:42:03 (#)
Ranking: -2
yoursoghey, she compared culture, that sounds like a general topic to me no?
"Tune in for next week where Nicole will teach the world the rights and wrongs of the world. Special episode in which we will learn about the Axis of Evil aka the Axis of Not Of Our Standards!----
I don't believe that Nicole was trying to teach anything. It is my understanding of this post that she was merely trying to convey how different our societies are, and how in Japan woman are still treated as subservient woman.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:53:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Tune in for next week where Nicole will teach the world the rights and wrongs of the world. Special episode in which we will learn about the Axis of Evil aka the Axis of Not Of Our Standards!"
I'm done here.
Gotta go finish cleaning up my place which will make me a good right by-the-standards western person who doesn't treat women like maids.
==================================================
ahahaha
chill out, C-dogg. while i agree that most Americans are myopic, fascist idiots, i don't see how Nicole went out of bounds by saying she thinks women should be treated as equals.
still, though, on the other hand, they have their culture. if a woman doesn't like it, she can always try another country. maybe... JUST MAYBE... some women like things just the way they are in Japan...
i've had Japanese girlfriends in the past (ok, i was just screwing them) and they enjoyed playing out the traditional part of a woman dictated by their culture.
different strokes for different folks...
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:49:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:20:53 (#)
Ranking: 2
oh man, i am sooooooooo moving to Japan...
***
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:49:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
And again, Caul, manages to find meanings that aren't there. Really, where do you come up with this crap?
If you would like me to find you some literature concerning the pre-wiring of the human race to determine good/bad, beautiful/ugly, etc. I will. Not that you would even listen to top scientists and psychologists regarding this as you seem to have made up your mind that there is no good or bad, even though you admit to judging others by a standard and then ridicule me for doing so.
Way to go, hypocrite. I never expected anything else from you.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:45:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Best thing about Japan:
REAL Japanese Saki, not the bullshit you can get here
Mens Clubs, I can't remember what they're called
Poki, A japanese bread and chocolate thing that I'm addicted to.
Good story though, I've been on the train and seen women give up a seat. When it's not rush hour of course. I wouldn't fucking dare try to ride then, you seen the guy with the white gloves? yea exactly
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:42:03 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
yoursoghey, she compared culture, that sounds like a general topic to me no?
"Tune in for next week where Nicole will teach the world the rights and wrongs of the world. Special episode in which we will learn about the Axis of Evil aka the Axis of Not Of Our Standards!"
I'm done here.
Gotta go finish cleaning up my place which will make me a good right by-the-standards western person who doesn't treat women like maids.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:37:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul, if you had read any of my posts you would see that I have nothing against the Japanese culture, which is think is absolutely amazing, except for their treatment of women. The culture I am talking about is our culture of equality, not religion, not abortion. I would never say that any culture is better or worse than another so I don't know where you are coming up with this crap.
You, in your condescension, admit to judging "Islam has good aspects, and yes, bad ones." What makes certain aspects good and others bad? Probably the thing buried deep inside you that tells you that some things are right/wrong, good/bad, pretty/ugly. Not everyone agrees on what these are, in detail, but even babies know that pain is bad and certain shapes are beautiful, just as just about every adult (barring mental problems) feels in their gut that killing a stranger walking down the street for absolutely no reason other than to kill is bad. We may disagree on the specifics but everything I have read and learned tells me that there is a little pre-wiring in us that helps to form our societies.
Read what I say without trying to force a meaning where there is none.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:20:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
oh man, i am sooooooooo moving to Japan...
Submitted by whataefag (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:20:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
great book that hits on this subject: A Public Betrayed. Not sure who wrote it, but I read it about a year ago ... I think Watanebe or something like that.
Anyway, +2 for smart, smart, smart Nicole.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:20:20 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Whose standard? Yours? What makes you think your standard is the utmost truth? That your Right isn't Wrong? Everything has downsides, every coin has a flip. Short term or long term.
Don't go think I'm not condoning sexism. I live in a place the social status of women is uniquely high compared to other places, US included. And I'm not making that up.
I just can't stand people who preach their self-righteous positions (or even imposed them à la USA).
Once you get down your pedestal and listen a bit you'll notice that even religions like Islam has good aspects, and yes, bad ones.
Now go spread freedom.
Submitted by TigerLilly (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:13:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Nicole3 - It is a shame that healthcare isn't better in other countries.
Mexico is bad as well.
Even with all the reasons to dislike the US and our government, I thank god I live here.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:09:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
well written and informative.
very nice!
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:09:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Tiger - http://www.mckinsey.com/knowledge/mgi/Japan/cases/healthcare.asp
eh, not so good.
Submitted by Feijuada (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:05:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I want to move to Japan. I mean, a holiday just for being male? Treat women like shit? I love it!
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:05:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Tiger - that is something I'm not familiar with, that state of their healthcare system. I know Europe is horrible. I'll look it up as now my interest is piqued.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-11-11 13:01:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Caulaincourt never fails to crack me up.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:58:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:47:15 (#)
Ranking: -2
"I'm an outsider spreading Western culture in places that may not be ready for it."
I like how americans imply that their culture is more right than others, even if they are the most purists of the western world.
Maybe you should listen instead of preaching, bitch.
===============================================
Relax. You make such big deals about such small things. I could turn the same thing around on you and find it despicable that French Canadiens like to imply that all Americans think they're always right. Turns out you just sound like an idiot when you make retarded blanket statements like that with hardly any basis in reality.
Submitted by TigerLilly (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:58:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:43:29 (#)
Ranking: 0
TigerLilly, I'm sure if you had been raised there, you would think of your treatment as normal and it wouldn't be as much of an issue as it would be if you moved there now.
---
I thank my lucky stars that I was born in the US for medical treatment alone.
However the way that woman are treated in some foreign countries disgusts me.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:57:44 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I read an article about how Japanese women in their late 20s are starting to avoid relationships and remain single, while having no intent to marry. They call these women "parasite singles" because they live at home with their parents and spend most of their money on fashion and other non-necessities.
It seems as though some Japanese women are taking steps away from their patriarchic culture and beginning to live their lives on their own terms.
I really enjoyed reading this post. It was well written, informative and interesting.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:53:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul, I also hate people who refuse to acknowledge that there is a right and wrong and you sound like one of those people. Sure, circumstances can change what is wrong or right, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a standard.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:51:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I love how some people refuse to acknowledge that some aspects of culture can be better than others in certain instances. I'm not talking about the entire culture, fucktard.
If you think that sexism is a good thing, you are entitled to that opinion. I think you are wrong.
Submitted by wazzawazzayo (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:50:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Ouch Caul.
Submitted by wazzawazzayo (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:48:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I like the series very much and greatly look forward to the next one.
Here, my business card.
<bows>
HORRY SHEET! GODZILLA JUST SMASH MY ACURA!
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:48:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Tim, check out the first Japan post I have linked. The picture is at the bottom.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:47:15 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
"I'm an outsider spreading Western culture in places that may not be ready for it."
I like how americans imply that their culture is more right than others, even if they are the most purists of the western world.
Maybe you should listen instead of preaching, bitch.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:44:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Fuck. I'll post the picture in my next post.
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:44:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
good post. i enjoyed it.
you've inspired me to write a post regarding sushi.
i'll linkwhore your inspiring post at the top.
you ever had green tea ice cream? thats good shit
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:43:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
TigerLilly, I'm sure if you had been raised there, you would think of your treatment as normal and it wouldn't be as much of an issue as it would be if you moved there now.
If I hadn't been transferred here recently I would have been asked to work in Japan for a few months next year. A few weeks, a month I could handle. More than that and I might go a little crazy.
Submitted by jonukah (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:43:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This is what happens when you bring a foreign species and its influence into an ecosystem.
It will be interesting to watch that snowball.
Oh, and:
"At the golden temple in Kyoto (see picture below)"
What picture?
Submitted by sebcharrot (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:40:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Enlightening and captivating.
Like japanese porn.
What?
Submitted by UlfGabe (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:39:35 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
women are only good for cooking and cleaning.
along with the occasional beating and sex.
Submitted by xenon (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:38:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
now the porn, please :)
Submitted by TigerLilly (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:34:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I have actually thought a lot about the way that woman
are treated in Japan and if I was born there, I would
have been killed. You know why!
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:31:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Ya, but they also have weird freaking porn and it is illegal to import it. I hope you like naked 13 year old chicks.
Submitted by hairycoo (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:30:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
haha you completely fucked that girls life.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2004-11-11 12:29:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
sounds like my perfect world.
;-)