Abu Ghraib back in the news (718 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 1.85 on 20 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Judoka (View user info) at 2004-12-01 11:38:40 EST
You remember the Abu Ghraib mess? Well its back in the news. It was written off as the actions of "a few bad apples." Unsurprisingly that turned out to be spin. I know you're as shocked as I am. Apparently the administration knew of the abuses as early as December '03. No matter where you stand on the Iraq war I think we all could agree on the fact that the abuses detailed in the Washington Post article is unacceptable. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23372-2004Nov30.html
Now comes the portion of my post that will make the Uber conservatives froth at the mouth. The fact that we are creating more combatants in an area we are trying to subdue is a really bad sign. I am going to lay the blame at the feet of Rumsfeld and Cheney. President Bush is exempt due to the fact that I don't think he has any idea of whats really going on. Any way you slice it our imperial adventure in Iraq has been a disaster from the beginning. There was never any question whether our military would be triumphant. But to occupy a country you need bodies, without the bodies you let chaos reign. And chaos is what we have in Iraq these days.
With all the resignations from the Bush cabinet why haven't we seen anybody involved in the war planning leave?
User Reviews
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2004-12-01 21:33:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-12-01 14:59:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Money qoute for those people who cannot read the article.
"Herrington's findings are the latest in a series of confidential reports to come to light about detainee abuse in Iraq. Until now, U.S. military officials have characterized the problem as one largely confined to the military prison at Abu Ghraib -- a situation they first learned about in January 2004. But Herrington's report shows that U.S. military leaders in Iraq were told of such allegations even before then, and that problems were not restricted to Abu Ghraib. Herrington, a veteran of the U.S. counterinsurgency effort in Vietnam, warned that such harsh tactics could imperil U.S. efforts to quell the Iraqi insurgency -- a prediction echoed months later by a military report and other reviews of the war effort."
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2004-12-01 14:54:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2004-12-01 12:54:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
a) I can't read the article.
b) Hopefully this is in the article, but where exactly are your facts to support the statement that we are creating more terrorists over there?
c) You don't see the people responsible for the military planning of this thing leaving for the same reason (or one of the reasons) Bush got re-elected. You don't change horses mid-stream.
But I really feel bad about point a) because I'm not sure that even if I COULD read the article, that my blood could get boiling too furiously just by finding out that those events starte happening a little earlier than we thought originally. It makes me a moster, I know. But I just can't care all that much anymore. Sorry.
Submitted by whataefag (user info) at 2004-12-01 12:35:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I hope you mean that the abuses were unacceptable not the reporting in the Post.
At any rate, yes troop end strength is a huge issue in the Pentagon, and believe it or not it is Bush (a.k.a., Karl Rove and Cheney), not Rumsfeld, who have fucked this issue up. With all the BRAC work that they proposed when this looked like an easy win, they've pidgeon-holed area commanders into making due with the troops they have. To the press, the administration looks very accomodating to commanders needs for troops, but understand, too, that there just aren't enough troops in the military to meet the needs in Iraq. No surprise, this happened in Vietnam. I know the conservatives are really frothing now, but the comparison must be made. Hope your kids are ready to fight for a war that you sick fucks provided a mandate for on Nov. 2.
Submitted by Disektor (user info) at 2004-12-01 12:16:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
It must be shitty to be the president. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd love to work somewhere where no matter what I did I'd be criticized for doing it. The ironic thing is if the American public had been told that the hijackers of the planes on 9/11 were Iraqis nearly everyone in the country would have demanded we go over there and bomb the shit out of them.. if we kill civilians, so be it, if thats what it would have taken to get revenge.
Submitted by riggyrow (user info) at 2004-12-01 12:13:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Zandy: The full report can be found on the Pentagon's site, but that article was pulled from the Taipei Times. http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2004/11/26/2003212554
Submitted by Zandy1123 (user info) at 2004-12-01 12:08:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Riggy - where did you find that article?
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2004-12-01 12:07:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Looks like the Iraqis ran out of flowers to greet us with.
Submitted by Totally_useless (user info) at 2004-12-01 12:01:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Zandy1123 (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:57:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Riggy - great article.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:55:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
And how will the government respond?
"They don't have all the facts"
and
"This is a war on terror, and terror hates freedom, even if the people do not"
I'll take bets.
Submitted by riggyrow (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:53:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
That's not the same article Judoka is talking about, but it's still highly relevant.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:50:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
They "hate our policies," not our freedom, it said."""
FUCKING FINALLY! SOMEONE WITH BRAIN MATTER!
Submitted by downerSTAIN (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:50:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Zandy1123 (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:49:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No need to post the text - I bit the bullet and signed up on the Washington Post site.
That article is amazing...I hope it doesn't get buried by the mainstream media.
The article simply confirms our worst fears about what's really going on over there.
Submitted by riggyrow (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:49:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
AP , WASHINGTON
Friday, Nov 26, 2004,Page 1
The US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq have created a shared anti-American cause among otherwise-divided Muslim extremists and raised the stature of the radicals in the eyes of ordinary Muslims, a Pentagon advisory panel says.
The report by the Defense Science Board concludes that the US government must urgently change its approach to understanding and communicating with the Muslim world. It says US public diplomacy is in crisis, and neither the White House nor Congress has done enough to fix it.
At the root of the problem, the report says, is a fundamental misunderstanding of why many Muslims are hostile toward the US. They "hate our policies," not our freedom, it said.
The report cites a "pervasive atmosphere of hostility" toward the US government that has intensified since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and the US responses to them.
"The dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars" against the US, the report said. "American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims."
The report is available on the Pentagon's Web site. It is among a series of reports produced last summer by the board, a group of non-government experts who advise the secretary of defense on a range of issues.
The problem, as described by the report, is not so much the availability of information as a failure generally to understand how people in other parts of the world, particularly Arabs, perceive US policies and actions.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:45:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Did any americans in their right mind REALLY expected the same welcoming they had in France or other countries they liberated in WWII? Seriously, any? When many people worldwide keep comparing your president to Hitler and add to that the general dislike of america in the Middle East, don't go think you'll be welcomed as liberators...anywhere.
Submitted by Zandy1123 (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:42:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 for telling it like it is.
can you post the text of the article - the link doesn't work.
Thanks!
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2004-12-01 11:42:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Damn straight. At the very least, history will judge those responsible.
The abdication of responsibility at the highest levels is disgusting. And no end is in sight.