The Validity of Smoking Laws (1276 hits)
Category: NewsRating: 1.24 on 22 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by voytek_dolinski.at.yahoo.ca (View user info) at 2004-12-22 23:27:49 EST
I'll cut to the chase...Recently in Ontario the minister of health announced a total smoking ban within the province, even eliminating smoking in places such as Designated Smoking Rooms (DSRs), parking lots and even within a few feet of the entrance of any particular building.
As a restaurant owner who moved from Ottawa across the river to Aylmer (Quebec) to avoid the fallout from Ottawa's ban in '01, I enjoy giving my employees and patrons choice. I keep a very distinct smoking and non-smoking section, and one can't even SMELL the smoke in the non-smoking section. If my waitresses smoke or they don't mind working in the smoking section, that's where they work. If my waitresses tell me they do not like the smell of smoke or they fear for their health (I actually have one waitress who is allergic to cigarette smoke) they are comfortable working in the non-smoking section. Of course there are some obnoxious smokers who light up once they come out of cold inside the entrance area, or who do not put out their cigarettes before they enter the restroom, but generally everything seems to be pleasant. I'm also proud to say I'm one of the people who actually obeys Quebec's restaurant smoking by-law. Restaurants must set aside 40% for smoking patrons-which is perfect, considering the fact that in the Outaouais the smoking rate is about 40% (38% I think?). It's really just a formality, I've never met an enforcer as of yet. Additionally, I haven't met a fanatic anti-smoker yet in person.
So, I ask of you, how is my restaurant problematic and affecting your health and well being?
I really do wish anti-smokers on this site would answer this simple question so far I've gotten nothing from them on other sites where they have been very quick to dismantle other 'pro-choice' posts. If they can't answer this question I call into question the validity of smoking restrictions in other areas, such as Ottawa and other towns and cities.
It's a shame that smokers and bar/restaurant owners don't have any say about what's going on. In Ontario the health minister is meeting behind close doors with anti-smoking groups, and dismisses the thought of discussing his plan with the very group of people he's targeting. Mr. Smitherman does not appear to have a reasonable explanation for not allowing smoking rooms. It seems the government in Ontario would rather hurt businesses than help them. I think what Mr. Smitherman is proposing is unrealistic. He seems to be seeking recognition and status, not protecting the health and well being of Ontario's citizens.
The fact that the legislation is not up for debate shows the government is ignorant of the fact that there is realistic opposition to this proposal, which proves the fact that this legislation is based solely on the views and the opinions of the province and not the hard working citizens of Ontario.
As far as smokers vs. anti-smokers, the us vs. them nonsense doesn't help anybody. Somebody who harasses a smoker in public claiming that smoking in a phone booth will cause the next person serious health problems is no better than the smoker who believes second-hand smoke is 100% harmless.
I think provinces, states and countries should do a better job enforcing the laws they already have in place and ensuring these 'formalities' such as the 40% smoking area by-law is abided by.
So, I ask you again, how is my restaurant problematic and affecting your health and well being?
User Reviews
Submitted by podium (user info) at 2004-12-23 15:38:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Like I said, down here at least, your restaraunt would be the exception and not the rule. In too many places the "nonsmoking" section was a huge joke since there was no real separation between the two.
===================================================================================================
Yeah, I know what you mean. Even at the 'non-smoking' tables someone can very well sit down and ask for an ashtray. I don't like the idea of amusing myself by building those glass pariah closets, it would be funny at first, then the $100,000 bill would come in the mail. Additionally, the Quebec government-though this is extremely doubtful-might do as the Ontario government did and allow the use of these glass aquariums then saying they must be dismantled.
Do you live in the Outaouais/Ottawa Valley region?
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-12-23 15:26:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
What don't you get? You walk in, someone says hello at the counter. You want to smoke with your meal, you go off to the left, if you do not you go off to the right. You wouldn't have to choke on 'other people's cancer while you're trying to eat'. I wonder how you could possibly survive in a bar. Besides, if I have a waitress who is allergic to cigarette smoke and can't stand it more than anything, don't you think I'd get shit from her if the section was far enough away from the smoking section?
Therein is my point. I could care less if I cant smell or taste the smoke. Build a little glass aqaurium and let them choke on each other's emphysema, I'm fine with watching that. But most restaraunts were quite content with "lets just put a table between the smoking and nonsmoking section, that will stop the smoke"
Like I said, down here at least, your restaraunt would be the exception and not the rule. In too many places the "nonsmoking" section was a huge joke since there was no real separation between the two.
Submitted by Sassmasterr (user info) at 2004-12-23 14:48:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
i don't smoke. but all my friends do. i tolerate it.
Submitted by Heather (user info) at 2004-12-23 13:08:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I am a smoker. I have actually not gone to certain bars that are somoke free. I beleive it is the owner's decision to allow or not allow smoking in their establishment.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2004-12-23 13:00:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I light up wherever the fuck I please. If anyone says anything, I inform them that I'm an anarchist so these "laws" do not apply to me and move on...after blowing a smoke cloud in their face.
Submitted by standardeviant (user info) at 2004-12-23 12:45:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I do not smoke. But I do not think it is fair for resteraunts and bars to suffer. And drinks are drinks and food is food. If people were frequenting it before the laws and now they do not. It is not that they are going somewhere with better food.They are staying at home where they are allowed to smoke.
Submitted by podium (user info) at 2004-12-23 12:13:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by congo (user info) at 2004-12-23 10:07:08 (#)
Ranking: 0
Good arguments and all, but when you said:
>>
I am not willing to sacrifice the majority just to please a few.
===================================================================================================
What I meant by this is that I am not willing to sacrifice the majority of my daily smoking crowd for the very few people who are so against smoking they don't even approve of a separate area. I'd say almost all of the non-smokers are comfortable with the non-smoking area. I'd hear about it if they weren't. Unfortunately, I have to advise my staff at times to prohibit smoking in the waiting area and in the washroom. But I can't be in a dozen places at once.
PS Daily smokers here are at about 40% believe it or not.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-12-23 06:41:58 (#)
Ranking: 0
If yours were the rule and not the exception, this wouldn't be a problem. But since it's not, I shouldn't have to choke on other people's cancer while I'm trying to eat
===================================================================================================
What don't you get? You walk in, someone says hello at the counter. You want to smoke with your meal, you go off to the left, if you do not you go off to the right. You wouldn't have to choke on 'other people's cancer while you're trying to eat'. I wonder how you could possibly survive in a bar. Besides, if I have a waitress who is allergic to cigarette smoke and can't stand it more than anything, don't you think I'd get shit from her if the section was far enough away from the smoking section?
Submitted by Monarch (user info) at 2004-12-23 11:07:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
My point of view:
I smoke a few cigarettes a day. 2-3 depending on if it was a shitty day or something. I really don't see any reason at all that we can't save our smoking for another time. I don't smoke in buildings at all, as it eventually starts to make the place smell permanently.
I ascribe heavily to the idea that if I could offend someone by smoking, I shouln't do it. If it isn't a place specifically set up for smokers, I just wait till I get home or something.
Submitted by knucklesnelson (user info) at 2004-12-23 10:18:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
All them non-smokers can smoke my pole. Bitches
Submitted by congo (user info) at 2004-12-23 10:07:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Good arguments and all, but when you said:
>>
I am not willing to sacrifice the majority just to please a few.
>>
surely you know that the non-smokers are the majority, don't you? The number of smokers is somewhere in the 30% range.
Submitted by thecaes (user info) at 2004-12-23 08:39:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Well written argument.
Personally I think smoking is habit for the retarded and should be outlawed on principle alone. It doesn't do anything but kill you.
However, I think there are certain aspects of this new law that are a bit much. If a restaurant has a closed in smoking section, that should be allowed. Also, banning smoking from parking lots? That is just wierd and unnecessary.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2004-12-23 06:41:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
bitch bitch bitch
I'm glad your McDonalds has isolated sections, but most restaraunts don't.
If yours were the rule and not the exception, this wouldn't be a problem. But since it's not, I shouldn't have to choke on other people's cancer while I'm trying to eat
Submitted by podium (user info) at 2004-12-23 01:31:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_T_Man (user info) at 2004-12-23 00:52:01 (#)
Ranking: 0
How about, instead of putting aside more space for those that indulge in that dumbass habit, your bar/restaurant makes up for the lost clientele by making better food, and more of it. There are other options open to you when it comes to keeping your business. They banned smoking in all pubs and restaurants in Ireland (a nation of pubs) and it went off without a hitch. Everyone seemed happy when I went over there in August. So stop bitching. If a place like Ireland can do it, so can we-and it's better for everyone's health. Smokers' rights are bullshit. When you smoke, you kill yourself (albeit slowly), thus, when you give people their own little section to do it in, you are condoning suicide. This is against the law in Canada.
I give you a 0 rating because you tried to make a valid point and your spelling and all that was good. Aside from that, I hope you choke.
===================================================================================================
Sigh. Let's get some things straight...
'I hope you choke'. For one, I don't smoke anymore. I don't call myself an ex-smoker or whatever because I don't believe in labels.
As for serving better food, I haven't had a solid complaint about the pancakes or steaks for about five years. I like the idea of making up for the lost clientele with 'better food' though.
See, smoking in public is more of a 'valued' thing for smokers than ever before these days. The scary thing is, the crappy food and atmosphere down the street might not matter one bit to these people based on the sole grounds that smoking is permitted in that spot. A total ban would make things even, but why should I have to go through the effort of attracting lost clientelle? I am not willing to sacrifice the majority just to please a few.
Saying I condone suicide is a huge stretch. I suppose I am also in a sense condoning suicide by allowing the fat man to have his huge stack of pancakes with a gallon of maple syrup.
Sir, the point I am trying to get across is that if you came to my establishment you would not be bothered by the smoking section. And if an obnoxious smoker disobeys my rules and smokes in the washroom and adds to some slight unpleasantness in your life, rip into them I don't care. Just like I would expect someone to yell at another person for pissing on the toilet seat.
And lastly, please don't tell me that I am bitching. I am far from complaining and don't appreciate being patronized. I was just trying to add my own insight into an arguably one-sided debate these days, and I feel I did so without lowering myself down to the level of these so called 'Smokers rights activists' or 'Anti-smoking nazis'.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-12-23 01:10:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by switters (user info) at 2004-12-22 23:53:52 (#)
Ranking: 1
Having a no-smoking section is like having a no-pee section in a swimming pool; it just doesn't work.
Going to a public pool is like standing in line to drink a glass of piss and chlorine.
I prefer the lake, with beaver shit floating around and the famous Northern Lights above it all.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-12-23 01:02:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I agree to smoking bylaws, it's the right thing to do.
Who out there could possibly think smoking is good?
And what about the companies that MAKE the shit--not exactly a 'people friendly' kind of company.
Of course...I'm smoking right now, so fuck all of you on both sides.
Submitted by The_T_Man (user info) at 2004-12-23 00:52:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
How about, instead of putting aside more space for those that indulge in that dumbass habit, your bar/restaurant makes up for the lost clientele by making better food, and more of it. There are other options open to you when it comes to keeping your business. They banned smoking in all pubs and restaurants in Ireland (a nation of pubs) and it went off without a hitch. Everyone seemed happy when I went over there in August. So stop bitching. If a place like Ireland can do it, so can we-and it's better for everyone's health. Smokers' rights are bullshit. When you smoke, you kill yourself (albeit slowly), thus, when you give people their own little section to do it in, you are condoning suicide. This is against the law in Canada.
I give you a 0 rating because you tried to make a valid point and your spelling and all that was good. Aside from that, I hope you choke.
Submitted by Beer_bong (user info) at 2004-12-23 00:49:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Take Tigre's advice.
Submitted by Ed_0150 (user info) at 2004-12-23 00:44:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I could not Agree more.
Submitted by Tigre (user info) at 2004-12-23 00:14:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
How to remedy all of this:
Smoke some weed, pull up a blanket and a bag of chips, and watch some cartoons till you fall asleep. Repeat.
Submitted by Arm_The_Homeless (user info) at 2004-12-22 23:55:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
What we're in now is a time of transition. Soon, very soon, nicotine will be a street drug sold by the dime bag.
Submitted by switters (user info) at 2004-12-22 23:53:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Having a no-smoking section is like having a no-pee section in a swimming pool; it just doesn't work.
Submitted by jayjonze (user info) at 2004-12-22 23:50:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
In Connecticut they have banned smoking completley in all bars and resturants, it is total BS. Accept for the casinos because they are in "tribal" land. Now people go to bars and clubs in the casino and small buisness cannot compete because they have to follow the rules, total bullshit. I was a non-smoker for some time, going to the bar it is assumed that there will be smoke, no problem, deal with it or stay home. If so many people wanted non smoking resturants they would have opened before bans took place and they would have flourished....J