Hey human beings, I propose a return to sanity (1059 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 1.24 on 37 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by FelizJBirth (View user info) at 2005-03-06 12:49:45 EST
Obviously, this is in reference to the two very heated posts once again pitting so-called liberals against so-called conservatives. I've come up with a few points that I hope we can ALL agree on whether we are left, right, up, down, middle, upper-left, lower-left, etc, etc.
First of all, to focus on the crime of another and ignore the crimes of oneself is the very definition of hypocrisy.
(from Dictionary.com) Hypocrisy:
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
This applies to the international arena as well perhaps moreso now than ever. If you accept that there is such a thing as hypocrisy than any argument implying that something was done because any country had a "right" to do it is highly open to question. There are certainly circumstances where such situations occur (WWII comes to mind) but most war, and even "microviolence" from a mugging to a terrorist bombing, is for political, economic or religious gain. However, the burden of proof is a heavy one and it lies on the aggressor. No matter what some people claim I have never heard of anyone committing violence against people because "they hate freedom". If anyone accepts that such people, apart from schizophrenics or the hopelessely indoctrinated, even EXIST I'd love to hear about them.
I've also heard people lowering to the point of implying that progressive thinking people, for some reason, now worship Allah. It's pretty clear that there is a new paradigm. A good definition of a paradigm is this:
"A paradigm is what you think about something before you think about it."
I think that is a pretty good summation of the divide in the United States and, to a lesser degree, the rest of the Western world since 9/11. Emotions are running extremely high in the United States on both sides. That does not portend well. Look at the on-going conflict in Israel and the occupied ter... I mean, palestinians. (See how I let my emotion creep in?) That entire conflict has escalated throught the years largely by the almost completely emotional reaction on the part of both populations. Regardless of what happened 50 years ago, there is a deep hatred on both sides and, in addition to continued US aid, is one of the main things stopping the possibility of any peaceful resolution.
Of course, I'm not implying that the continental United States is going to turn into the shitstorm that is the Middle East. However, I think that with the switch to such a divisive paradigm it has become an "us" and "them" situation to most Americans and many in the West. This is NOT healthy.
I think the reasons for the Democrats resounding failure was that they had grown accustomed to fitting into a fairly moderate paradigm. I think many people have been pushed to the extremes of both sides and the Democrats simply lacked the balls to even elect a candidate who opposed the invasion of Iraq. Unfortunately for all of us, the Republicans are more pro-active and stronger than ever. Despite everything I dislike about the Republican party, I cannot deny the amazing accomplishment both politically and socially that they have achieved. Not only have they convinced at least half the population that they are right, in the face of common sense, but they have made much of the world's hatred of America increase tenfold. This is was not unpredictable.
The final thing I'd like to say is this: Nobody here (self included as evidenced directly above) is capable of being truly objective and nobody should ever even try. That's not to say you shouldn't have an open mind and be willing to change your opinion but I think it's nearly impossible to talk about a political issue without even unconsciously injecting some of your own opinion into it. I don't think it's an honest way to have a discussion. For example, if you're anti-abortion then don't try to scientifically prove that a fetus is a child. Just admit that it's a personal religious belief, you have a problem with abortion and work in the democratic system that still exists to try to get the law changed. This is just one example and I'm not trying to single out pro-lifers; this applies to ANY such opinion. If you're willing to resort to violence to get your political views realized than you are, by definition, a hypocrite.
"Why can't just be normal to eachother?"
User Reviews
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:11:27 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Oops I just gave myself a +2, sorry. -2 DIE.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:10:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Williamson, I understand your point as I've laboured through more philosophy courses than I care to count. I think our use of language is very important when discussing these types of things so I can't really disagree. For example, who is ultimately responsible for 9/11? We'll probably never really know the answer to that even if we find every single person who planned it. These are not unimportant questions no matter how abstract they may seem to some.
That being said, and it seems you agree with me, most of us can agree on certain things as being either true or not true. If we didn't do that we wouldn't be able to get anything done. Like you said, it's kind of a yin and yang thing; language has its advantages and its disadvantages. It's very ironic that language is arguably the largest barrier to humans actually being able to properly communicate with eachother. It's simply impossible for any of us to think about something without the use of language. Even in the rare examples of people who have been raised without any exposure to language they essentially stay "underdeveloped". When finally exposed to language they pick it up very easily because languages is hardwired into the human brain.
Anyway, it's interesting stuff and I don't think it's irrelevant in the arena of politics at all. Not exactly the kind of thing that's going to solve any problems but it's at least a piece of the puzzle.
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-07 21:40:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Williamson: Anyway, good post. People need to see things from both sides a little better. Unfortunately there is no truth, only perception, and perceptions conflict. But then again others say there is an absolute truth. Is there a truthful answer to whether there is truth or not or only the perception? It's a philosophical paradox.
----
Feliz: I think there is most certainly "truth" when it comes to many things but of course others are simply a matter of opinion. Is abortion wrong? Matter of opinion. Did I just eat a sandwich? Well, that's not really a matter of opinion. Either I did or I didn't. I do see your point though and it is important to remember.
----
In all practicality I agree with you. But philosphocally I don't.
"Did I just eat my sandwich?"
Each word can be philosophically challenged to show there is no "truth".
"Did" = Past action. Now if you ate your sandwich in the past that is fine, as long as you have the same definition of past as everyone else. Is there even such thing as the past in physics? If time is circular then the concept of "past" becomes very blurry.
"I" = Yourself. But who are you? Are "you" a single entity or a collection of trillions of cells each with it's own mind?
"Just" = Recently. When does that count? Is recently the last 10000 years (a tick of the clock on universal scales).
"Eat" : Can all acts of putting food down your throat count as eating? (I admit, it's hard for me to find a philosophical alternative to the word 'eat')
My = Your own. Do you own the sandwich? Can a man "own" something? Who made you king of this sandwich anyway?
Sandwich: Was it truly a sandwich? Was it a a bagel? There's no universally agreed on definition of a sandwich. It could be a lot of different types of food.
Anyway, the point of that was to show that I believe there is no Black & White about anything. Everything can be percieved differently. Of course, with something like "Did I just eat my sandwich?" the shade of gray is so strong it's basically considered to be the truth. I however believe that everything has a little bit of grey in it.
The Yin and Yang I suppose: In all good there is some evil and in all evil there is some good.
**I can't stress this enough so this reply doesn't get too ripped to shreds. In all practicality I agree Feliz ate his damn sandwich. Just philosophically I see that it could be interpreted differently.**
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 19:34:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sure you probably have such a list that's the sad part.
Fucking kids.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2005-03-07 19:33:59 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Reminder...add User #15410 to "socialist dickhead" list right underneath Wiggles.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 19:32:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
First of all, why did you bring this to MY post?
Second of all, I couldn't give less of a fuck what you and Jimmy have talked about before. You made yourself sound as hateful and ignorant as Jimmy. It was not specific to any situation. I have every right to tell you what I think and I'd like to see you try and stop me.
Thirdly, WHY DID YOU BRING THIS TO MY POST?
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2005-03-07 19:13:38 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I think you are the conspiracy theorist. You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you meets secretly once a week, gives a bunch of muslims blowjobs in exchange for bombing as many innocent people as we can think of, aborts a couple of babies just for kicks, shoots some heroin and try to think up of new ways to piss you off personally. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the part where we all fuck eachother up the ass, you know, because you don't like it. Neither do we, but since we're evil it's more important that we piss you off. No pain no gain.
Look, Jimmy is perpetuating a stereotype just as you are Stabkill. After all, not everyone who agrees with some of what you say is a dipshit either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummmm. No. I'm talking about Jimmy who is NOT perpetuating a stereotype. You are some dickhead who stuck your nose in the middle of an arguement you know nothing about. Jimmy claims to be a libertarian, but he isn't. And yet this doesn't stop him from telling me what a libertarian is and isn't, even though.... I know much more than he does about it.
How about you shut your piehole instead of get involved in something you know jack shit about? You are rambling incoherently in your bullshit response.
Fucking chump-ass newb wants to join the williamson-nobb-wiggles-jimmy socialist crowd.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 18:53:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-07 18:36:30 (#)
Ranking: 2
I tried but i came off too strong. Much too strong. That's zealousy for you. Oh, and my belief is on ethical, not religious grounds. C'est La Vie.
---
Well don't forget that there's two sides to that coin - if you tell someone you're anti-abortion, they're probably going to assume it's on religious grounds regardless of what you even say. I think this is largely the problem. You're anti-abortion? Well you must be a rich, indoctrinated, war-mongering Republican. You're against the war? You dirty pot smoking hippie communist bastard. We're all just fucking human beings and it IS very possible to be liberal about some things and conservative about others. The sad part is that we all have so much more in common with eachother than we do with either the Republican or Democratic leadership.
-------------------------
Anyway, good post. People need to see things from both sides a little better. Unfortunately there is no truth, only perception, and perceptions conflict. But then again others say there is an absolute truth. Is there a truthful answer to whether there is truth or not or only the perception? It's a philosophical paradox.
----
I think there is most certainly "truth" when it comes to many things but of course others are simply a matter of opinion. Is abortion wrong? Matter of opinion. Did I just eat a sandwich? Well, that's not really a matter of opinion. Either I did or I didn't. I do see your point though and it is important to remember.
----
Personally, I know where I stand on most subjects, and I will oppose those against me, not support them with an open-mind or heart if we conflict *TOO* much. For example I dont think I will ever see the point of someone who says "America should rule the world", and I'm sure they can't see my point which is "-2Die Yankee Imperialist.". I think it can be unhealthy to be *Too* openminded.
----
I guess that's sort of what I was trying to say. Be open minded but don't be afraid to let your emotions enter your politics if you feel they belong there. I think a lot of us "liberals" (god i hate that word) are often times too afraid to do that. Meanwhile, the Republican party is driving the country into the ground by doing PRECISELY that. I think it's time to fight fire with fire.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 18:42:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Jimmy, I went to the website which apparently defines your entire belief structure and saw nothing relevant to what we were discussing. I can only assume that YOU assumed a lot about me without even asking me. I don't disagree with much of what is on that website:
The USA is a leading international terrorist state - check
9/11 was carried out by a part of the United States government - check
Using said terrorist action to carry out their agenda - check
These are simply truisms to me. There is no evidence to suggest anything else.
It seems to me that our main disagreement is how to stop this. You seem to think everyone not paying their taxes is the answer. I think that everyone acting like rational human beings and thinking for themselves just might be the answer instead.
But you know neither of us are experts on what works when it comes to fighting this much indoctrination so do whatever you feel is right. Just don't attack me because I try to use more tact in conversations with people who I know full well are delusional. I think we're both essentially on the same side and stupid shit like this is why OUR side always loses.
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-07 18:36:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"For example, if you're anti-abortion then don't try to scientifically prove that a fetus is a child. Just admit that it's a personal religious belief, you have a problem with abortion and work in the democratic system that still exists to try to get the law changed."
I tried but i came off too strong. Much too strong. That's zealousy for you. Oh, and my belief is on ethical, not religious grounds. C'est La Vie.
Anyway, good post. People need to see things from both sides a little better. Unfortunately there is no truth, only perception, and perceptions conflict. But then again others say there is an absolute truth. Is there a truthful answer to whether there is truth or not or only the perception? It's a philosophical paradox.
Personally, I know where I stand on most subjects, and I will oppose those against me, not support them with an open-mind or heart if we conflict *TOO* much. For example I dont think I will ever see the point of someone who says "America should rule the world", and I'm sure they can't see my point which is "-2Die Yankee Imperialist.". I think it can be unhealthy to be *Too* openminded.
Thus conflict will emerge and the best thing we can do in *some* cases is to fight for what you believe. I wish we could be "normal" to eachother, and one day i hope we will. World peace and brotherly love and all that jazz.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-07 17:28:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-07 15:31:41 (#)
Ranking: 0
you're an idiot.
-------------
Haven't you got an internet convention to go to, fatass?
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-07 15:31:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-07 12:52:10 (#)
Ranking: 0
I'll just link you to a website that sums up how I feel, http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/AmericanStateTerrorism.html
if you have criticisms check out the letters page because they've probably been answered already
---------------------------------
you're an idiot.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-07 12:52:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I'll just link you to a website that sums up how I feel, http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/AmericanStateTerrorism.html
if you have criticisms check out the letters page because they've probably been answered already
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-07 12:05:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Great post.
"Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-07 11:10:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
You need to discard your naive beliefs about government, the usa is not a Democracy, the system is a sham to placate the masses, america is in fact a Plutocracy, the institutions are rigged, politicians are sock puppets, there is no control over the people pulling the strings"
It's not that bad yet (wished Kerry had won though), the fact that we are having this conversation means that the strugle is not over yet.
Now regardless of your orientation can you agree with this:
1) Nationalize all arms industries, lets make sure nobody makes money out of war.
2) Bring in single issue voting, remove issues such as abortion, homo sexuality and God(s) from party politics.
3) Increase anti corruption laws for Politicians, lets make sure nobody makes money out of politics.
Decrease wages, Governmentr account for the rest of their lives and all financial transactions closely monitored.
If we had this we probably wouldn't have this conversation.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 11:40:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-07 11:10:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
You need to discard your naive beliefs about government, the usa is not a Democracy, the system is a sham to placate the masses, america is in fact a Plutocracy, the institutions are rigged, politicians are sock puppets, there is no control over the people pulling the strings.
----
As munkeypants pointed out, you need to get off your high horse.
I'm fully aware of the "Democracy" that is the United States. I've written about it on Uber before. It was never intended to be an actual democracy. The protection of the minority of the opulent from the majority and all that. At this point, the United States does resembles a plutocracy more than anything.
However, whether you like to admit it or not, it is possible to affect change in such a system. It's been done before. For example, a lot of people complain that there's not enough in the way of things like equality for women and minorities. Well, there was nothing to complain about 50 years ago because it wasn't even an issue.
Your very argument is in contradiction to itself:
1) Americans are guilty for the actions of their government.
2) The American government is not a democracy therefore Americans have little if any control over the actions of their government.
So, Americans have no control over their government yet remain responsible for its actions? Well, ordinary Americans also had no control over Hussein's regime in Iraq so I guess that justifies the invasion, huh?
The entire idea of "voting with your dollars", which is essentially what you're proposing, is about as democratic an idea as capitalism. If you have more money than I do then you have more votes than I do. Depending on how much money you have it could also determine exactly what happens to you when you refuse to pay your taxes.
A final thought:
"There is a certain social process which is known and very visible but perhaps not acknowledged as much as it should be. It is that one where a new idea, or an old one in new form, is accepted by a minority while a majority are shouting treason, rubbish, kook, communist, or whatever term of abuse is valued in that society. They develop this idea, at first probably in secrecy, or in semi-secrecy, and then more and more visibly, with more and more support until, guess what? This seditious, impossible and heated idea becomes what is known as received opinion and is logged and valued by the majority."
Keep hope alive! (or whatever)
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-07 11:10:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You need to discard your naive beliefs about government, the usa is not a Democracy, the system is a sham to placate the masses, america is in fact a Plutocracy, the institutions are rigged, politicians are sock puppets, there is no control over the people pulling the strings.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-07 09:49:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Jimmy, I don't think it's quite as cut and dry as that but I also don't doubt that there is certainly some truth to your point. Ultimately, Americans are the only ones responsible for the actions of America. However, if 300 million people agreed to do ANYTHING together it would probably be more productive than the "representative democracy" that exists now.
I guess my point is that if every American was willing to simply participate in their Democracy as a human being, which would be less risky and take less effort than refusing to pay your taxes, then that alone might stop a large amount of the atrocities perpetuated by American elites. I don't think Americans would let most things happen that are happening if: a) they truly knew/understood what was happening or b) they thought there was anything they could do about it
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-07 08:47:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Ah monkeyparts, did you drop your burger with shock? Self absorbed children like yourself should not be traumatised by exposure to reality, stick to coversations with your fellow grease stained sloths about food or the long term dangers of buggery, your areas of expertise.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-07 08:07:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-06 21:22:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
The fact that there isn't a movement is in itself an indictment of americans, the reason is that they aren't really that bothered by their government killing inferior non-americans, by the violent and grusome death their government has rained down on millions, or the oppression their government has intentionally and systematically created and maintained across indochina, the middle east, and south america.
-----------------------------------------------------
fuck you and fuck the high horse you rode in on.
Submitted by GreenRiver (user info) at 2005-03-06 23:07:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-06 21:22:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The fact that there isn't a movement is in itself an indictment of americans, the reason is that they aren't really that bothered by their government killing inferior non-americans, by the violent and grusome death their government has rained down on millions, or the oppression their government has intentionally and systematically created and maintained across indochina, the middle east, and south america.
C1A subversion, bribery of puppet regimes, manufacturing revolution whenever leaders threaten to improve their peoples condition, training brutal militias in the 'School Of Americas', or if all else fails just outright invasion and mass murder, such as in Vietnam where 4 million were killed, as a lesson to the rest of indochina as to what happens when you get the idea that you have the right to rule yourselves, without putting american business interests first.
Even opponents of their governments invasion of the middle east are usually only bothered by the deaths of american soldiers, the number of which pales in comparison with the tens of thousands of Iraqi's who did not volunteer to put themselves in harms way, but whos lives are over now.
If americans cared about this they would not fund their criminal government, and the government would be brought down.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-06 20:38:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Jimmy - first of all, I'm Canadian so not paying my taxes isn't going to contribute to the collapse of the United States. Secondly, not paying taxes as a form of civil disobedience is not the answer to all our problems. It may be a good way to express yourself politically but it's not going to fundamentally change anything. A national strike in the United States would probably be good too but it's not likely to ever happen.
Is the government going to arrest tens of millions of people? Maybe not. Is there ever going to be a point in time where tens of millions of people join together and decide to not pay their taxes? I highly doubt it. You basically suggest that anyone who pays their taxes is as guilty as those who use the taxes to bomb other countries. Does that mean if you don't pay your taxes you feel you have absolutely no other political responsibility?
Don't get me wrong I think it's a fine way to express yourself but don't think for even a second it's the solution that we need right now. And there's no need to shit all over people who don't like the way their country is headed and pay their taxes because they don't want to go to prison. If there was a real movement for something like that, it would be a different story. But there's not.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-06 17:26:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"I'd like to know why YOU haven't put a stop to it you hypocritical bastard. "
All I can do is try to snap people out of the trance
You can't really have a serious conversation about overthrowing the most powerful state humanity has probably ever seen. "
What? Your nation was founded by doing exactly that, how much more of an example/inspiration could you need?
If you stop giving it your money, the monster collapses. What can they do, arrest tens of millions of people? If you gave a damn about the people being slaughtered by your government you wouldn't give them a penny.
"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people."
— Martin Luther King, Jr.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-06 16:21:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Interesting movie "control room"
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2005-03-06 15:45:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Well written and insightful. These are the knid of posts I like to see on Uber. Most of all, you're right. We are all guilty of pushing our country into the chaotic state it's in right now. I'm defeinately one of those assholes.
Submitted by stevendurel (user info) at 2005-03-06 14:51:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
We need to read more of each other's work. Good show.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-06 14:17:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Sorry, Jimmy I kind of inferred that was what you were getting at since you said that any form of traditional protest is a waste of time. I'll let you clarify it for me.
Big - I hope you're right.
Submitted by BigJoe (user info) at 2005-03-06 14:04:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
With or without us, through action or inaction, the world will find its balance.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:59:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
whoa dont put words in my mouth pal, spooks monitor the internet, youll have men in suits busting through my door, i do not advocate violence of any sort against a government, I said non cooperative revolution, that means passive resistance. ill get to the rest in a minute
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:51:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:39:44 (#)
Ranking: 0
Americans, it is your duty to stage a massive non-cooperation revolution. Until you do this you are all culpable for the actions of your satanic, mass murdering government.
Simply stating your opposition or marching in protests achieves nothing, save to allay your guilty consciounces, as long as you fund the government with your taxes you are completely complicit in their heinous crimes, and as guilty as someone who hires a hitman to commit genocide.
---
I'm assuming by your tone that you're not an American. I'd really like to know what country you're from because I'm sure it's done some horrible things as well and I'd like to know why YOU haven't put a stop to it you hypocritical bastard.
Look, you're right in this respect: the United States is a representative democracy, however distorted it's become, so citizens of the United States are responsible in some way for the actions of the United States internationally. But what makes you even think that a) a revolution among 300 million people will just spontaneously happen or b) it wouldn't be crushed?
Just look at labour in the 30s, it was brutally beaten down. The same is true after the civil war when the North imposed what people openly referred to at the time as a new kind of slavery, namely wage-slavery, and there was extreme violence. People HAVE fought against the United States government before and they've been absolutely devestated. You can't really have a serious conversation about overthrowing the most powerful state humanity has probably ever seen.
All sorts of good things have come from people fighting through traditional institutions and it shouldn't and won't stop. It doesn't makes the institutions valid authorities but there's only so much people can do. Besides, wouldn't murdering the people we consider to be murderers simply further our hypocrisy?
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:39:44 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Americans, it is your duty to stage a massive non-cooperation revolution. Until you do this you are all culpable for the actions of your satanic, mass murdering government.
Simply stating your opposition or marching in protests achieves nothing, save to allay your guilty consciounces, as long as you fund the government with your taxes you are completely complicit in their heinous crimes, and as guilty as someone who hires a hitman to commit genocide.
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience [has] shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce [the people] under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."
— two quotes from Thomas Jefferson.
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:31:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't think I made this clear enough in the post so I want to reiterate: When I say noone can write objectively, that means we're ALL hypocrites. You have to accept that, to some degree, everyone is a hypocrite. Everyone has a tendency to focus on the bad parts of the external world and the good parts of themselves. It's not universal but it's pretty close. If you recognize that fact I think it goes a long way but noone can completely divorce their personal feelings from any belief system.
Submitted by SweetBaise (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:26:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I hate hypocrits
and i guess that means i am one, b/c i hate people before i know them and i hate people who do that
i suck ass
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:13:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Jimmy: interesting quote. I know I said people should be honest about their opinion and avoid trying to create even more proof for people not to look at at the expense of not really expressing one's real opinion.
I have to be honest too though. There are 300 million Americans. I think quotes like that, while they have important elements of truth, are far too general. America is an extremely diverse country and don't forget that a large percentage of it doesn't even vote. I think it's unfair to Americans to blame them for their government. If someone voted Republican maybe they deserve a spanking or something but that's about it. These are very powerful people at work they're the ones we should ALL be worried about whatever name they go under.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-03-06 13:01:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"The American people, taking one with another, constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goosesteppers ever gathered under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages."
— H. L. Mencken
H. L. Mencken was the most well-known and respected newspaper columnist of his day.
Submitted by RideJohnnyRide (user info) at 2005-03-06 12:53:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by FelizJbirth (user info) at 2005-03-06 12:52:55 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I just noticed some spelling/grammatical errors, meh. I guess I should proofread before I post?
-2 DIE!!!!