A Response to “Hey Liberals, I Propose a Compromise” (1037 hits)
Category: GeneralRating: -0.66 on 49 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by PissedOffRightWingerWithAGun (View user info) at 2005-03-07 22:26:12 EST
After reading "Hey Liberals, I Propose a Compromise" ( http://www.ubersite.com/m/61138 ) and the comments posted on it; the entire thing reminds me of how ignorant some of the people within the United States really are. It is sad when people that live outside if the United States know more than our own citizens when it comes to the law and constitution.
In the response gbusman wrote "This country is not a "Christian Founded" nation. Get over it and get your goddamn religion out of my fucking government." ( http://www.ubersite.com/m/61138#1184879 )
However, this is far from what is really true. The Puritans, the first to truly populate the country were Puritans, who were Christian in the most basic sense. Then all of our founding fathers were extremely religious, they were also heavily Christian, even more than the Puritans. If you look at the Pledge of Allegiance you may just notice the phrase "One Nation Under GOD" and if you look at the money issued by the government you will see the words "In GOD We Trust". This was most definitely a country founded on Christian beliefs. I for one do not see anything about "In Allah we trust" or a simple lack of the mention of religion within our frame of government.
As for the comment "get your goddamn religion out of my fucking government" the constitution says nothing to prevent religion within the government. What it does say in the first amendment is that:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
This means that the United States Government or the governments of its respective states shall not establish a church of any kind. What this does mean is that the government cannot interfere with any religion (except in the rare instance where in going about their religious activities they break a law, such as the religious group that was recently in the news for their highly dangerous religious drink, even then it is not a legislative issue but a judicial issue.)
In a similar argument from my point, the recent court rulings over the Ten Commandments monument in the Alabama Supreme Court building should have not been allowed since the Judge that placed it there was freely exercising his freedom of religion. The correct decision, by way of the constitution, should have been that the monument could stay just as long as other recognized religions (not cults) could place monuments of their beliefs in the same area.
Touching on the statement about abortion, who can say when a fetus is truly alive and "having active brainwaves" as one person put it. There have been cases where babies have been born months early and have been very "active". These same people have grown up to be fully functioning adults just like you or me. Until we can truly determine when someone is mentally alive, then there should not be abortions, except when the mother's life is endangered, or in the case of a rape. Once science has determined this, matters will change.
The last item to address is what gbusman said about ending capital punishment, of everything said between the post and its responses, that is probably the best of all the comments. To just give a general idea about cost, it actually costs more to keep one person on death row for one year then to keep three people in prison for the rest of their life.
If you actually managed to read this far thank you for paying that much attention!
User Reviews
Submitted by hsimah (user info) at 2006-11-26 04:46:20 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
As said below, most of the founding fathers weren't Christians. I can't remember what they were, but they certainly didn't impose their religion on the citizens of the country. Only pretentious Bible-bashers do that (or Qu'ran-bashers etc, anyone imposing their beliefs is a cock-knocker to me).
Anyway, abortions should be legal, cause I don't want a kid at my age and I'm sure as fuck my ex-girlfriend got one (she didn't tell me till months after) cause she was crazy and should not be allowed near children, or other humans. Neither should I.
Submitted by Axolotl (user info) at 2006-11-26 04:23:24 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
The founding fathers were mostly deists, and most didn't believe in Jesus' divinity.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-30 22:40:59 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2005-03-28 23:04:25 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Zod make me click on this, so while I'm here
Submitted by tech-junkie (user info) at 2005-03-10 21:44:42 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Well written, but the issue is 5 months old. See you in a year and a half.
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2005-03-10 04:32:18 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I agree with Rad here. That's a technicality you're trying to catch us on Adereterial. You know good and well it's the Christian god they mean.
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Sure... it's a technicality. However, what is meant or implied doesn't stand up as evidence enough to exclude those of a non Christian religion who technically worship the same God. If it was a Christian God it was intended to be for all time, 'One Nation Under Christ' would have been more appropriate.
Therefore it is inappropriate to exclude non-Christian religions on the basis that we think the authors of that statement means Christian religions only. If you want to follow this logically, exclusion of non-Christian religions means exclusion of Catholicism.
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2005-03-09 22:53:04 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Wow. The words "one nation under god" weren't added to the Pledge until the fifties or sixties, amid the Communism scare that was scouring the nation.
Also, the people that first heavily populated this nation were here under contract by large companies in England. While they may have incidentally been of the Christian faith, like most people in England at the time, they were here to earn money for those companies that had paid the price for their ships and their goods by sending back timbers, spices, and goods that were traded from the Indians. Watch the Colonial House series on PBS for some good info, since you are obviously an idiot. See ya!
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-09 05:31:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2005-03-08 09:58:14 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:49:54 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:36:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
If you look at the Pledge of Allegiance you may just notice the phrase "One Nation Under GOD" and if you look at the money issued by the government you will see the words "In GOD We Trust". This was most definitely a country founded on Christian beliefs. I for one do not see anything about "In Allah we trust" or a simple lack of the mention of religion within our frame of government.
---------------------
All this means is that the American founders placed their faith in a monotheistic religion, which incorporates Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, Methodism, Catholicism and hundreds of other sects in between.
Allah is simply the arabic word for God.
==========================================
back that up
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Fine - just asked the Muslim guy who works downstairs what the literal translation of 'Allah' is - your answer for ten - 'God.'
There is no mention in the American constition that says they trust in a Christian God - it is simple 'God.' Therefore, 'In God We Trust' is inclusive for all monotheistic religions. It excludes paganism or religions with multiple Gods.
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I agree with Rad here. That's a technicality you're trying to catch us on Adereterial. You know good and well it's the Christian god they mean.
Can i prove it? No. But you know it's true even if you've found a loophole.
**Once again, i don't agree with founding the nation under god, but i agree that it did happen. I'm not denying history for my stubborn agendas.**
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-09 05:26:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Wiggles (user info) at 2005-03-08 01:30:47 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:29:19 (#)
Ranking: 2
America was founded under God.
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So what? I can't disagree with the "founding fathers"?
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Wiggles man, I'm just agreeing with it on historical terms. Disagree with it all you like, I'm just saying that I believe historically it was founded under god and I'm sick of liberals saying otherwise to prove a point. Don't lie about it.
I am liberal (for most things) and atheist. I support your cause of secularism. I just think that lying about history is not helping us.
For that reason I +2'ed in an effort to counter people who just hold opposition to the right wing without considering any of the virtues behind it (such as history in this case).
Submitted by lordofthedance (user info) at 2005-03-08 19:51:14 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/61462
Where's your response?
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-03-08 15:33:35 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
the entire thing reminds me of how ignorant some of the people within the United States really are.
_____________
no argument, there...
Submitted by PissedOffRightWingerWithAGun (user info) at 2005-03-08 13:24:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by the_lone_stranger (user info) at 2005-03-08 11:37:17 (#)
Ranking: -2
So, the death penalty - killing U.S. citizens for crimes - is wrong, but war - killing non-U.S. citizens for reasons that can only be described as propaganda - is OK.
What a fucked up point of view.
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I never said that war, i.e in Iraq was the best thing, in fact war is really fucked up anyway you look at it, especially in Iraq since we just went in for the oil (Not all of us war monger right wingers believe the war in Iraq is right). America doesn't go to war unless our interests are at risk so the war in Iraq is screwed up, we should have stayed in Afgahnistan searching for Osama. Maybe we would have caught him by now if we had, because he is the real enemy.
Submitted by Shay (user info) at 2005-03-08 12:47:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
People like him are what's wrong with America???? Wow, people crack me up..
Submitted by Shay (user info) at 2005-03-08 12:42:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-03-08 12:01:30 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by the_lone_stranger (user info) at 2005-03-08 11:37:17 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
So, the death penalty - killing U.S. citizens for crimes - is wrong, but war - killing non-U.S. citizens for reasons that can only be described as propaganda - is OK.
What a fucked up point of view.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2005-03-08 11:17:35 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2005-03-08 09:58:14 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:49:54 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:36:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
If you look at the Pledge of Allegiance you may just notice the phrase "One Nation Under GOD" and if you look at the money issued by the government you will see the words "In GOD We Trust". This was most definitely a country founded on Christian beliefs. I for one do not see anything about "In Allah we trust" or a simple lack of the mention of religion within our frame of government.
---------------------
All this means is that the American founders placed their faith in a monotheistic religion, which incorporates Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, Methodism, Catholicism and hundreds of other sects in between.
Allah is simply the arabic word for God.
==========================================
back that up
--------------------
Fine - just asked the Muslim guy who works downstairs what the literal translation of 'Allah' is - your answer for ten - 'God.'
There is no mention in the American constition that says they trust in a Christian God - it is simple 'God.' Therefore, 'In God We Trust' is inclusive for all monotheistic religions. It excludes paganism or religions with multiple Gods.
Submitted by PissedOffRightWingerWithAGun (user info) at 2005-03-08 09:51:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2005-03-08 05:09:28 (#)
Ranking: -2
People like you are what's wrong with America.
======================================
Just because I have views that differ from you doesn't make me the problem. The real problem is all those lazy people sitting on their couches, watching TV, and poping out kids. These "people" are the dregs of America and just serve to eat up the taxes that I, and everyone else, pay. Unlike most of these "people" I have a high school degree, a job, pay taxes, and am in college. If it was not for people like myself then most of "them" would have a hard time staying alive and feeding their various addictions. I may seem unintelligent or have flawed views in your opinion, however I am a thousand times better than those that are truely what is wrong with America.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2005-03-08 09:12:45 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm very very sick right now. My head is pounding, my skin is hot to the touch, my tonsils are swollen and it hurts to swallow. My hands are shaking, and when I stand up I feel like I'm going to fall right back down. But I wasn't nauseous. Nope. I didn't feel the need to throw up until AFTER I read this post. Funny, that.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:49:54 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:36:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
If you look at the Pledge of Allegiance you may just notice the phrase "One Nation Under GOD" and if you look at the money issued by the government you will see the words "In GOD We Trust". This was most definitely a country founded on Christian beliefs. I for one do not see anything about "In Allah we trust" or a simple lack of the mention of religion within our frame of government.
---------------------
All this means is that the American founders placed their faith in a monotheistic religion, which incorporates Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, Methodism, Catholicism and hundreds of other sects in between.
Allah is simply the arabic word for God.
==========================================
back that up
Submitted by Adereterial (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:36:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
If you look at the Pledge of Allegiance you may just notice the phrase "One Nation Under GOD" and if you look at the money issued by the government you will see the words "In GOD We Trust". This was most definitely a country founded on Christian beliefs. I for one do not see anything about "In Allah we trust" or a simple lack of the mention of religion within our frame of government.
---------------------
All this means is that the American founders placed their faith in a monotheistic religion, which incorporates Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, Methodism, Catholicism and hundreds of other sects in between.
Allah is simply the arabic word for God.
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2005-03-08 08:18:28 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
You're still around?
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2005-03-08 05:09:28 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
People like you are what's wrong with America.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-03-08 03:42:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Lil' Jon says, "YEAH! OKAY! WHAT?!"
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-03-08 03:01:57 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Just terrible
Submitted by MoneyG (user info) at 2005-03-08 03:01:17 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Sorry, but wrong on most accounts. The founding fathers were dieists and most resented the values of the puritans. The phrase, "one nation under g-d," was added to the pledge years and years later by Theodore Roosevelt(I Think. Around that period), way past when all of the founding fathers were dead. As for "In God We Trust" on all our money, I'm not sure about the timing, but then again, the coins and bills we have now are not the same as the ones we had during the civil war.
As for the death penalty thing:
First off, the founding fathers believed in the death penalty. Anyone who disputes this is an idiot, because the truth is, they killed alot of people. It's not true that it takes more money to kill someone than it does to keep them alive, and any costs in killing people are manufactured such that it is not something done often. Think about it; keeping a human alive and strong for forty to fifty years OR, money for execution, services, paperwork filing, and interment. Any costs that come up in execution are results of people fuddling with the statistics.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2005-03-08 02:20:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
In fact I welcome any believers of these "half truths" to argue with me.
Do NOT use that wallbuilders crap I'm sure all you Christian nutjobs are running to. David Barton is an ignorant lying piece of crud, and I will not argue with people who quote authors that obviously have no ability to factually examine primary sources.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/61462
Bring it bitches. Let Zoidy school you in the school of hard cocks err um Knocks.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2005-03-08 02:17:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay Pissed, I accept the thrown gauntlet. Let's dance. My response
http://www.ubersite.com/m/61462
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2005-03-08 01:39:40 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I'd just ignore this, but it will make most heated anyway.
Just like all the other pointless ignorant political posts.
Submitted by Wiggles (user info) at 2005-03-08 01:30:47 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:29:19 (#)
Ranking: 2
America was founded under God.
-------------
So what? I can't disagree with the "founding fathers"?
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2005-03-08 01:11:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
plus fucking two.
"OMG HERE COMES DJMATT WITH HIS RIGHT WING HATE AGAIN!"
yeah whatever. fuckers.
Submitted by MrWillard (user info) at 2005-03-08 00:30:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
+1 because of your user name and that justice is Mr. Smith and the jury is Mr. Wesson. I'm not sure where Glock fits into this, but you get my meaning.
Submitted by Sassmasterr (user info) at 2005-03-07 23:12:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
glory hallelujah!
good stuff
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-07 23:06:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by PissedOffRightWingerWithAGun (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:56:11 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:45:46 (#)
Ranking: 0
"One Nation, Under God" is from the 1950's, you crackpot.
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I know it was added during the 1950's but the point is that the Supreme Court even believes in the foundation of the U.S. on a religious basis, which it was, so that when the phrase was recently challenged they kept it in.
And what makes me a crackpot?
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The US Supreme Court also says that there shall be no religious displays of one religion over all others on public property. Hmmmm.....
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:59:58 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by PissedOffRightWingerWithAGun (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:44:11 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:32:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
holy shit enough with the 'generic rehashed political opinion' posts
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What I have stated here is not opinion, with the slight exception of the thing on abortion, it is all laws, known statistics, and pulled DIRECTLY from the U.S. Constitution.
No, you argued a bunch of unsubstantiated points based on personal [mis]interpretations
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:58:36 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
"However, this is far from what is really true. The Puritans, the first to truly populate the country were Puritans, who were Christian in the most basic sense. Then all of our founding fathers were extremely religious, they were also heavily Christian, even more than the Puritans. If you look at the Pledge of Allegiance you may just notice the phrase "One Nation Under GOD" and if you look at the money issued by the government you will see the words "In GOD We Trust"."
-----------
Then from a literary perspective, that paragraph sucks, because you put that in with the founding fathers. So, you've earned a -2 for shitty writing. Congrats!
Submitted by PissedOffRightWingerWithAGun (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:56:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:45:46 (#)
Ranking: 0
"One Nation, Under God" is from the 1950's, you crackpot.
=====================================================================
I know it was added during the 1950's but the point is that the Supreme Court even believes in the foundation of the U.S. on a religious basis, which it was, so that when the phrase was recently challenged they kept it in.
And what makes me a crackpot?
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:50:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Touching on the statement about abortion, who can say when a fetus is truly alive and "having active brainwaves" as one person put it. There have been cases where babies have been born months early and have been very "active". These same people have grown up to be fully functioning adults just like you or me. Until we can truly determine when someone is mentally alive, then there should not be abortions, except when the mother's life is endangered, or in the case of a rape. Once science has determined this, matters will change. "
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Right now, the laws of the United States say that a fetus is not a person until it is born and can be assigned a Social Security number. Otherwise they could be claimed as dependents on taxes, which incidentally, is currently a no-no.
So, the US government says abortion isn't murder.
Submitted by Brianthetruthspeaker (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:48:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Amen
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:47:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
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That means that Congress shall pass no law which gives one religion preference over another. So unless we're putting passages from the Koran, the Torah, and whatever other religious texts are requested, you are wrong again.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:45:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"One Nation, Under God" is from the 1950's, you crackpot.
Submitted by PissedOffRightWingerWithAGun (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:44:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:32:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
holy shit enough with the 'generic rehashed political opinion' posts
==============================================================================
What I have stated here is not opinion, with the slight exception of the thing on abortion, it is all laws, known statistics, and pulled DIRECTLY from the U.S. Constitution.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:42:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
No, you know what, I'm giving this a plus one. The writing didn't suck.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:40:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh fuck, here we go...
Submitted by Ed_0150 (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:40:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Freakmagnet (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:35:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm glad someone finlly said this.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:32:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
holy shit enough with the 'generic rehashed political opinion' posts
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-03-07 22:29:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
America was founded under God.