Birth Control/ Abortion, lets find a better way. (1071 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: -0.82 on 45 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (View user info) at 2005-03-30 10:39:54 EST
Ok having seen both sides of the argument, here is an attempt at a system that would sit in the middle:
1) The priority of this system is human life and spirit, the aim to avoid taking life and/ or damaging the souls of the people involved. Unwanted pregnancies can ruin lives and cause adult resentment towards the child damaging its spirit; there should be no unwilling parents.
2) The system will have clear areas of responsibility and will be based on a realization that not everybody can practice abstinence (lets help them rather than judge), everybody has access to free contraception with no age restrictions. If you opt for contraception, the government warrants you against pregnancy (with reasonable safeguards against abuse), you may have the morning after pill. Abortions only to save the life of the mother or after a rape.
3) Most fertility treatments to be discontinued (it can't be god's will now can it?) , it's bad for the survival of the species helping organisms that can't reproduce to reproduce. This will increase the demand for adoption, which is good for point 4.
4) All potential parents to take a college course plus aptitude test for parenting, you can take the course anytime and it is free. If you cannot pass, you will not be given the responsibility, the child will be raised by others, the progenitor paying maintenance.
That's the simple version, I know it has holes but I don't have time to write pages of law and will answer any questions in the reviews.
If this post has angered you, please calm down and respond with helpful suggestions or a better system, if you convince me, I will make any necessary changes.
User Reviews
Submitted by Herpes (user info) at 2005-03-31 04:48:46 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
WTF IM NOT READING ALL THAT
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-31 04:21:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Degreeless_Capibara (user info) at 2005-03-30 17:12:31 (#)
Ranking: -2
WOW! YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON TO EVER THINK OF THIS! QUICK, WRITE THE PRESIDENT!
There are apparantly no new ideas, I threw this up for discussion, please help. Or just shout sarcasm, whatever.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-31 04:18:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-03-30 15:20:46 (#)
Ranking: -2
who's paying for all this shit?
I vote we strip the tax-exempt status from churches to pay for this, and see how far that gets us.
I like your idea.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-31 04:09:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:41:53 (#)
Ranking: -2
I am not even going to read this.
DEAD HORSE
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:54:15 (#)
Ranking: -2
"I am not even going to read this. "
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-30 13:17:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
nice retaliatory -2 on my post, fuckwit
That's Karma for you, you rate when you don't read the post, I did the same to you, you did not like it, are you going to do it again?
Submitted by Degreeless_Capibara (user info) at 2005-03-30 17:12:31 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
WOW! YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON TO EVER THINK OF THIS! QUICK, WRITE THE PRESIDENT!
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-30 16:29:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Siring a child into society is no small thing, the hoards children born for financial reasons with a parent who you couldn't trust with a puppy will be tomorrows serial killers
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Sounds like an argument FOR abortion to me....
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-03-30 15:20:46 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
who's paying for all this shit?
I vote we strip the tax-exempt status from churches to pay for this, and see how far that gets us.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-30 13:17:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
nice retaliatory -2 on my post, fuckwit
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 13:06:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"The problem with your entire "solution" it's that it requires the government to police its people and interfere in their personal lives. "
Um, that's what they do when the individual acts against societies good (they are individuals too). Siring a child into society is no small thing, the hoards children born for financial reasons with a parent who you couldn't trust with a puppy will be tomorrows serial killers. Over dramatized I know, but I hope you get my point.
"but what about adoption and stuff? I've worked with adopted kids- and there is the huge question "WHY?" always there.
plus- most poeple who end up giving adoption, they hurt so bad they use pills or drugs to cover the pain, leaving the baby with issues. "
Thank you for your response, any system is going to cause pain, I'm just thinking out loud and I would like to see if we can find a better way of dealing with the issues.
It is tricky to play "what if" with these cases as they might have turned their life around or taken the child with them.
I have to leave the office now, but I will have a think on what you have all said.
Submitted by wanderingsharps (user info) at 2005-03-30 12:37:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
sigh.
life is never easy...there's always issues.
toughening up people to deal with abortion destroys a bit of the kid in them,
and sometimes creates an uncaring monster.
pills-med issues. condoms, well I'm allergic to latex, and both break reguraly any way.
most of the resposnabiltiy ends up on women chosing an option that screws with thier hormones and fun.
but what about adoption and stuff? I've worked with adopted kids- and there is the huge question "WHY?" always there.
plus- most poeple who end up giving adoption, they hurt so bad they use pills or drugs to cover the pain, leaving the baby with issues.
who knows.....fucked if I do.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 12:29:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Thank you for your response.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:45:38 (#)
Ranking: 1
===> I can agree, but you don't elaborate on what steps are taken to prevent unwanted pregnancies from ruining lives and causing resentment. You place a priority on human life and spirit, but don't venture into saying which is greater when the two are in opposition (for example, if a cell-cluster is considered "human life" does the value of that life outweight the "spirit" of the mother for the nine months of the pregnancy if she doesn't want it?) Would you be willing to kill an unborn child to prevent it from being resented later?
I hear you, if you did take steps but still got pregnant then you would not be liable for costs if you wanted it adopted and possible you would have access to an abortion, because there is a health risk involved for the mother and some methods of birth control can cause birth defects. I know this sounds high handed, do you think it's fair? Please respond with an alternative.
Shit, I have just thought that it would be impractical to have a mother carry a child she did not want. She would get rid of it by any means.
2) The system will have clear areas of responsibility and will be based on a realization that not everybody can practice abstinence (lets help them rather than judge), everybody has access to free contraception with no age restrictions. If you opt for contraception, the government warrants you against pregnancy (with reasonable safeguards against abuse), you may have the morning after pill. Abortions only to save the life of the mother or after a rape.
===> This would be unduly burdensome, as it would require Government inspections to make sure that contraception was used properly every time. Absent this ability to observe and inspect any warranty would be preposterous.
You go see your doctor, it goes on your medical record, if pregancy does occur blood tests could determine whether the contraceptive was used.
3) Most fertility treatments to be discontinued (it can't be god's will now can it?) , it's bad for the survival of the species helping organisms that can't reproduce to reproduce. This will increase the demand for adoption, which is good for point 4.
====> Fertility treatment discontinued because it is not God's will? How about contraception then?
Sorry about the confusion I was being sarcastic.
As for what is "good for the survival of the species" not only does that smack of Eugenics, but it also fails to take into account the rights of individuals to reproduce.
Oh boy I'm going to get into trouble for this. I haven't per se got anything against Eugenics, I want every soul to have the best material vehicle to travel in, life's hard enough. The survival of the species is important because for genetic reasons people cannot reproduce, that's evolution at work, interfering with this could be the end of hmanity ie. Create conditions in which lack of ability to reproduce becomes an advantage then you end up with a species that loses the ability to reproduce.
And I don't feel that anybody has a natural right to reproduce. Overpopulation could be the death of our species.
4) All potential parents to take a college course plus aptitude test for parenting, you can take the course anytime and it is free. If you cannot pass, you will not be given the responsibility, the child will be raised by others, the progenitor paying maintenance.
===> This sounds a little bit like "Brave New World" to me. I think I'll remain a savage, thanks.
Yes this bit is a bit authoritarian, I have many reasons for this though, let me try to explain a few.
We live in a society of rules, that is a fact, you have to be seen to obey the rules or you can leave. There are limited resources.
At the moment in England, if you are sixteen and unemployed you are in trouble, if you get pregnant the government will provide a nice flat and plenty benefits ( I personally know two myself, they talk about how it was an accident for them, but they do know people who have boasted about getting pregnant on purpose).
I understand this because it is not a great life, but it is an option if you like staying at home all day.
Now watching how these mothers treat their children, screaming and beating them, it takes no rocket scientist to see where they are headed.
Removing the financial benefits ( not retrospectively) would in my opinion remove the incentive.
And to those of the "learn by experience" brigade, you probably had good parents, not everybody has had access to those.
A quote from somewhere:
"only fools (or something) learn from experience"
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-30 12:22:57 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 12:07:55 (#)
Ranking: -2
"No life is not that simple, like I said I would need to write a book of proceedures to make this air tight. Oh well here we go:
You see your doctor, you go on the pill or have a subcutaneous implant (there is a male pill). Odds of you getting pregnant are now minimal, but can still happen. If you do then you won't have to pay maintenance if you do not want the child (or possibly an abortion, I don't know, what do you suggest?). "
The problem with your entire "solution" it's that it requires the government to police its people and interfere in their personal lives. Hence why it's dictatorial. It's not rules
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 12:07:55 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
"No life is not that simple, like I said I would need to write a book of proceedures to make this air tight. Oh well here we go:
You see your doctor, you go on the pill or have a subcutaneous implant (there is a male pill). Odds of you getting pregnant are now minimal, but can still happen. If you do then you won't have to pay maintenance if you do not want the child (or possibly an abortion, I don't know, what do you suggest?). "
The problem with your entire "solution" it's that it requires the government to police its people and interfere in their personal lives. Hence why it's dictatorial. It's not rules.
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2005-03-30 12:02:02 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Human life has no inherit value. Deal with it.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:59:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:44:12 (#)
Ranking: -2
Your point 2 fails to mention that contraception is not absolute. Some girls can't take the pill you know. It's just too harsh for them. So they use condoms. Or what about single girls who want enjoy a one-night stand once in a while. Some won't spend money on pills for nothing so they will also use condoms for occasions. Condoms are not bullet proof. I have break more than once myself, like any guys...except you since you know only masturbation.
Life isn't that simple my dicatorial little shithead.
No life is not that simple, like I said I would need to write a book of proceedures to make this air tight. Oh well here we go:
You see your doctor, you go on the pill or have a subcutaneous implant (there is a male pill). Odds of you getting pregnant are now minimal, but can still happen. If you do then you won't have to pay maintenance if you do not want the child (or possibly an abortion, I don't know, what do you suggest?).
The idea being that if you take steps to avoid getting pregnant you will have been considered responsible. People who are irresponsible should pay the cost of their action, not the child.
Contraception free, condoms are only to stop std's. There are many different kinds of the Pill and there is the coil.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:51:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I appreciate the comments and will answer all of them in due course. But please don't call me a dictator, we live in a society that needs rules in order to function.
Submitted by rayrayshanaynay (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:26:59 (#)
Ranking: -2
2) What happens when the birth control isn't effective? Or a day is missed?
4) People that want to adopt go through enough. They don't need classes.
Well, seeing the way some parents are treating their children (I worked as a security guard in a deprived area), screaming at them, hitting them for no reason and not having the basic organisational skills to keep them alive.
The classes would be relatively simple and not really that important to the system . The aptitude test on the other hand: can they resolve conflict, keep their cool when the child is crying for no reason (without shaking it) or as in my upbring, can they raise a child when they are feeling low.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:45:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:30:11 (#)
Ranking: -2
Damn Q, I know a girl who had 3
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You should get her one of those home abortion vacuum cleaner attachments for christmas.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:45:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
1) The priority of this system is human life and spirit, the aim to avoid taking life and/ or damaging the souls of the people involved. Unwanted pregnancies can ruin lives and cause adult resentment towards the child damaging its spirit; there should be no unwilling parents.
===> I can agree, but you don't elaborate on what steps are taken to prevent unwanted pregnancies from ruining lives and causing resentment. You place a priority on human life and spirit, but don't venture into saying which is greater when the two are in opposition (for example, if a cell-cluster is considered "human life" does the value of that life outweight the "spirit" of the mother for the nine months of the pregnancy if she doesn't want it?) Would you be willing to kill an unborn child to prevent it from being resented later?
2) The system will have clear areas of responsibility and will be based on a realization that not everybody can practice abstinence (lets help them rather than judge), everybody has access to free contraception with no age restrictions. If you opt for contraception, the government warrants you against pregnancy (with reasonable safeguards against abuse), you may have the morning after pill. Abortions only to save the life of the mother or after a rape.
===> This would be unduly burdensome, as it would require Government inspections to make sure that contraception was used properly every time. Absent this ability to observe and inspect any warranty would be preposterous.
3) Most fertility treatments to be discontinued (it can't be god's will now can it?) , it's bad for the survival of the species helping organisms that can't reproduce to reproduce. This will increase the demand for adoption, which is good for point 4.
====> Fertility treatment discontinued because it is not God's will? How about contraception then? They are flip sides of the same coin. As for what is "good for the survival of the species" not only does that smack of Eugenics, but it also fails to take into account the rights of individuals to reproduce.
4) All potential parents to take a college course plus aptitude test for parenting, you can take the course anytime and it is free. If you cannot pass, you will not be given the responsibility, the child will be raised by others, the progenitor paying maintenance.
===> This sounds a little bit like "Brave New World" to me. I think I'll remain a savage, thanks.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:44:12 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Your point 2 fails to mention that contraception is not absolute. Some girls can't take the pill you know. It's just too harsh for them. So they use condoms. Or what about single girls who want enjoy a one-night stand once in a while. Some won't spend money on pills for nothing so they will also use condoms for occasions. Condoms are not bullet proof. I have break more than once myself, like any guys...except you since you know only masturbation.
Life isn't that simple my dicatorial little shithead.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:38:12 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
"Beside which, I thought point number 5 was rather innovative with many possible positive effects on society. "
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I see no point #5.
Hey! I get it!
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:37:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:16:58 (#)
Ranking: -2
Is abortion legal? yes. Is birth pills currently legal? yes.
You don't need to change or debate that because of a flock of backward retard christians. "
I know closely almost 10 girls who had an abortion. One of which was my girlfriend.
Mmmmm, I see your point. Now see if you can get mine, if a person has an abortion because they were not taking birth control that makes me and a lot of people uncomfortable.
Take point 2, if you were using precautions and they failed, I would say than that all reasonable precautions have been taken and termination to be allowed.
I think you should always review all laws regularly, if you don't then odds are some backward retarded christians will appeal to other retards and win an election partly based on this issue. This was an attempt to find a compromise that could appeal to all and then finally settle the matter.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:36:26 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
4) All potential parents to take a college course plus aptitude test for parenting, you can take the course anytime and it is free. If you cannot pass, you will not be given the responsibility, the child will be raised by others, the progenitor paying maintenance.
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You jack someone's kids away, they aren't gonna pay shit. It's kind of like the child support system now.
Seriously, what made you think this is a good idea? Most parents I know couldn't pass a parenting course BEFORE having a child. There is no test of what you would do when tough choices are to be made. That's the beauty of it all. Until you are raising a child of your own, you can know neither how hard it is, nor how rewarding it is.
And if you discard that logic, who will write the aptitude test? Congress? Do you want Ted Kennedy writing a book on how to raise kids? Look how fucked that family is. Or maybe you want dubs writing it. His daughters turned out to NOT the robo-sluts, fucking everything that moves and having the Secret Service drive them home in the morning.
Wow. You're a complete fucking idiot.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:30:11 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:26:19 (#)
Ranking: -2
Caul... one out of four pregnancies in Canada end due to abortion. Crazy, huh?
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Damn Q, I know a girl who had 3. No kidding. Is she stupid? Very. Is it her right to be? Indeed.
With 6 billion + people on this planet, anything that will slow the human race production should be welcomed.
Submitted by rayrayshanaynay (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:26:59 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
2) What happens when the birth control isn't effective? Or a day is missed?
4) People that want to adopt go through enough. They don't need classes.
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:26:19 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Caul... one out of four pregnancies in Canada end due to abortion. Crazy, huh?
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:25:28 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Holy crap, what an awesome system.
But, you forgot to mention where I can fill in the application forms so I can have permission to put my dick into my girlfriend.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:20:56 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I know closely almost 10 girls who had an abortion. One of which was my girlfriend.
It's rather common here, 19 of the 30 abortion clinics in Canada are right here in Québec.
They go through enough without having some douchebag like you dictating them what they should or should not do - under any circumstances.
Go fuck yourself.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:16:58 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Is abortion legal? yes. Is birth pills currently legal? yes.
You don't need to change or debate that because of a flock of backward retard christians.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:15:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh and I am not American, congrats on jumping to conclusions.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:13:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You are not making any sense Caulaincourt. How about we carry on examining the issue to find a point we could all possibly be content with?
Submitted by Electro (user info) at 2005-03-30 11:00:44 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
nah...http://crapoartworks.frandt.com/Yourpost/Results.html
Submitted by EbolaMay (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:55:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I dunno. I think Prince had the right answer. "Let's get to rammin!" Babies for everyone! Free babies! Babies for free!! Get your red hot babies here!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:55:49 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:49:45 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:42:57 (#)
Ranking: -2
WELCOME TO THE 21ST CENTURY! THE ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION ARE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN SETTLED BACK WHEN BON JOVI WAS CONSIDERED MANLY! SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Has it? where is your proof for this? I site the case of people still protesting infront abortion clinnics, the fact that the pro lifers are still a political force and Jack Calumn as evidence tha it is not settled.
Beside which, I thought point number 5 was rather innovative with many possible positive effects on society.
But feel free to rant and swear without contributing anything.
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That's because you,re american. No one gives a shit elsewhere. Maybe if you did the same the protesters would realize thy have no ears to scream their backward bullshit in.
Submitted by Socialist_Joe (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:55:29 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
how bout we just start killing people
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:52:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Submitted by Scatherm (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:46:34 (#)
Ranking: -2
Never debate poltics or religion. "
What? do you mean: me personally or just never debate politics. Why not stick to photoshop and leave sentences to the rest of us.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:49:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:42:57 (#)
Ranking: -2
WELCOME TO THE 21ST CENTURY! THE ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION ARE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN SETTLED BACK WHEN BON JOVI WAS CONSIDERED MANLY! SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Has it? where is your proof for this? I site the case of people still protesting infront abortion clinnics, the fact that the pro lifers are still a political force and Jack Calumn as evidence tha it is not settled.
Beside which, I thought point number 5 was rather innovative with many possible positive effects on society.
But feel free to rant and swear without contributing anything.
Submitted by GodChicken (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:48:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by DeadHorse (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:45:19 (#)
Ranking: -2
Beat me like it's your job.
===============================
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! +2 for that.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:46:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Mandatory sterilization for everyone. Ready, go.
Submitted by Scatherm (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:46:34 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Never debate poltics or religion.
Submitted by DeadHorse (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:45:19 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Beat me like it's your job.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:44:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh, I didn't read any of the reviews before I rated.
-2DIE!!
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:43:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm good with everything except 4.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:42:57 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
WELCOME TO THE 21ST CENTURY! THE ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION ARE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN SETTLED BACK WHEN BON JOVI WAS CONSIDERED MANLY! SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Submitted by Sphagnum (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:42:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Makes sense to me... But I'm easily convinced.
Prepare for the onslaught of hate that this post will incite!
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-03-30 10:41:53 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I am not even going to read this.
DEAD HORSE