C-Span airs 9/11 truth lecture (2599 hits)
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Submitted by Jimmy (View user info) at 2005-04-28 11:47:40 EDT
David Ray Griffin asks the tough questions about Sept. 11, contending U.S. officials had some knowledge of what was coming and possibly orchestrated the attacks.
Griffin, whose book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," came out a year ago, drew an enthusiastic standing ovation from the majority of the 400 or so people who packed his lecture Monday night at Bascom Hall.
A retired Christian theologian, Griffin, 65, taught for more than 30 years at the Claremont School of Theology in California.
His comments Monday night were directed at religious people, who he said need to respond to Sept. 11 - and the American empire that has ensued - based on the moral principles of their religious traditions.
Drawing laughter from the crowd, Griffin said he had in mind principles like: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors' oil" and "Thou shalt not murder thy neighbors in order to steal their oil."
While Griffin noted that his books and talks have not received attention from the mainstream media, C-SPAN had a cameraman at the event and plans to air the lecture at a future date. Madison's public access cable television station, WYOU-TV/Channel 4, meanwhile, will air the talk at 7 p.m. Thursday.
Americans interpret the events of Sept. 11 in one of four ways, Griffin said:
• A first group accepts the official interpretation that Sept. 11 was a surprise attack by Islamic terrorists. It is easy for these people "to think of America's so-called War on Terror as a just war," Griffin said.
• A second group accepts the official line but thinks Sept. 11 has been used opportunistically by the Bush administration to extend the American empire. People who hold this view often believe that America's response to Sept. 11, which has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, is far worse than the attacks themselves, he said.
• A third group believes the Bush administration knew the attacks were coming and let them happen. It shows the government as "deliberate and cold-blooded," advancing its imperial designs while hypocritically portraying itself as promoting a "culture of life," Griffin said.
Although there has been no national survey, a Zogby poll taken last year indicated that almost half of the residents of New York City share this view, he said.
• A fourth group believes that the government orchestrated the attacks. While no poll shows how many Americans believe this, polls in Canada and Germany have found as many as 20 percent of those populations do, Griffin said.
In his follow-up book, "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions," Griffin examines the questions that he and others in the "9/11 Truth Movement" charge were never examined by the federal government's 9/11 Commission.
Evidence to support the theory that U.S. officials had at least had some foreknowledge of the attacks comes from David Schippers, the chief prosecutor for the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, who reportedly received warnings from FBI agents about the attacks six weeks earlier, Griffin said.
Other government officials, including Attorney General John Ashcroft, would not respond to the warnings, he added.
There was the extraordinarily high volume of "put options" purchased in the three days before the attacks, Griffin said, with investors betting that stock in United and American Airlines - the two airlines used in the attacks - would go down. There were also a suspiciously high number of put options for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, which occupied 22 stories of the World Trade Center.
"U.S. intelligence agencies monitor the market, partly to look for signs of impending attacks," Griffin said. "One wonders how information could be much more specific than this."
Griffin then made a case that government officials planned and executed the attacks.
For one, the United States military neglected to send fighter jets to intercept the hijacked planes. Such interceptions usually occur within 10 to 20 minutes after the first signs of trouble and are routine, happening about 100 times a year, Griffin said.
It seems implausible, he said, that the Pentagon was struck by Flight 77, since it is "surely the best defended building on the planet." The U.S. military has the best radar systems in the world and "does not miss anything occurring in North American airspace," he added.
Griffin also made a case that the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings was brought on by thousands of explosives placed throughout each of the buildings. They went straight down, at free-fall speed, as in controlled demolitions, and many people in the buildings reported that they heard or felt explosions, he added.
"High-rise steel-frame buildings have never - before or after 9/11- been caused to collapse by fire," he said.
Sue Adams, 50, introduced herself to Griffin after the talk, calling him heroic. "I think some day we may really know the truth," she said, adding that it will likely be after the Bush administration is gone.
Orion Litzau, a UW freshman studying engineering, agrees that the answers the government put out through the 9/11 Commission were more than a simple deception.
"They were not only partly false but a complete, bold face lie," he said. "David Ray Griffin brings out interesting points about what could be the true story behind the 9/11 attack."
Jim Goulding, 67, who teaches religious studies at Edgewood College, admitted at first he wondered whether Griffin was a crackpot, but instead found he had a "tremendous reputation as a theologian."
Goulding has read both of Griffin's Sept. 11 books.
"I think he makes a convincing case - well documented, well footnoted," he said.
C-Span 2 Saturday, April 30 - 10:30am
http://www.madison.com/toolbox/index.php?action=printme2&ref=tct&storyURL=%2Ftct%2Fnews%2Fstories%2Findex.php%3Fntid%3D36617%26ntpid%3D5
User Reviews
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-02 21:40:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It's funny how my oponents are all sexual perverts of some sort. Coincidence? No: it's a world wide Pervert Conspiracy.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-05-02 15:29:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It is my genuine and sincere wish, that a large Negro penis be forcibly thrust down your gullet.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-02 12:52:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world.
Thomas Jefferson
That's my kind of guy.
http://goddoubleplusblessamerica.org/jest/card-american_public.jpg
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-02 12:14:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/conspiracy.html
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-02 12:12:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Jimmy's defines one's IQ based on one's capacity to paste Internet links. Jimmy is special.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-02 12:09:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
How can I but concede defeat, to such an intellectual heavyweight.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2005-05-02 12:04:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yes, I could be open minded like you, Jimmy! So open-minded, my brain falls out!
You arent' for real. There's no combination of base pairs that could yield someone so dumb.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-02 11:59:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Whoa, hold on, domenad doesn't buy it? But you have such a reputation for being open minded and intelligent!
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2005-05-02 11:39:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I already believe you are an idiot, Jimmy. You don't have to try any harder to convince me.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-02 11:25:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm trying to find a website I once bumped upon. It suggested that China will invade america through Northern Canada and was responsible for 9-11, a theory I had heard quite often. They also stated 'facts' and said they knew the 'truth'.
Too bad I don't remember how I found it because I'd paste it and you'd have to refute every single argument that's on there. You wouldn't because that's just stupid so I'd win and you'd be a lemming and me the shepperd.
It must be easy being you.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-02 11:22:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ok c-man, whatever makes you feel better about your cowardice.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-02 11:11:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It's amazing how highly you think of yourself. Somehow you've convinced yourself that you're special, separated from the flock because you paste links from a few conspiracy theory websites you didn't even write. Were you born this pathetic or did it grew over time?
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-02 10:55:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
lol caulincourt you have no shame. Your really having to stretch for excuses now, first it was that I'm too mean, now you don't like the colour of the websites, next it'll be "the weather is all wrong for this discussion". As always you cannot challenge me factually.
This passage from a doctoral investigation really applies to the people here, alothough I would never have beleived this behaviour exists it if I hadn't seen it here with my own eyes.
"This research paper will likely be wasted on many lemmings. For lemmings, denial is a basic psychological defense mechanism used to not only shield themselves from unpleasant realities, but also to reassure themselves that they will still fit within the acceptable range of opinion held by their peer group. Lemmings are absolutely terrified at the thought of being labeled as an "extremist" or a "conspiracy theorist". At all costs, their beliefs must always be on the "right" side of the issue and conform within the boundaries of their lemming peers. Lemmings simply cannot bear the burden of responsibility, or the social discomfort, which comes with thinking independently. They will resist any efforts to change their misguided beliefs with all their mental energy. We can try to open their closed minds and free them from their self-imposed blindness, but it's not easy fighting the force of human nature. The chains of ideological conformity have too strong of a grip, and breaking them is a difficult task. With the limited resources at our disposal, it is next to impossible to compete with the media lemming-masters. The lie of the emperor is always believed before the truth of the peasant. Nevertheless, some of us must make the meager attempt, and thus lay the foundation upon which the truth might one day rise again."
-Dr. A. Pastare Phd.
Submitted by SilvrWolf (user info) at 2005-05-02 00:20:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-02 00:10:40 (#)
Ranking: -2
I never trust a man who says he holds the truth.
--------
By far the smartest thing said on this post yet. Brilliant, Caul.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-02 00:10:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
There's a plethora of theories out there Jimmy. Some who make a lot of sense too. You speak as if yours was special different than the others somehow.
I have friends who have their own who have more arguments than a few links from crappy websites and still haven't manage to convince me. Not because I don't want to believe them, but because it takes more than vague ideas with citations of bizarre occurences poorly linked together to convince me.
I never trust a man who says he holds the truth.
Submitted by spedmonkey (user info) at 2005-05-02 00:03:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I notice that you haven't given a source for one of your "facts". How do you know the buildings wouldn't collapse under pressure and heat from the superheated airline fuel? Are you a structural engineer? Have you talked to one? Jesus Christ, you say to open our eyes. To what? I hate the government as much as anyone. Hell, I believe they used this as a premise for oil. But gee, a big evil conspiracy? That's a little far-fetched. What about all the theories that the CIA killed Kennedy? There's probably about the same amount of people who believe that as the amountt hat believe the government was entirely behind 9/11. Why don't you run off and research that? While you're at it, go find Tupac and Elvis. I hear they're living together in the Carribean.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 23:59:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
But do you honestly think that all the demolition people, all the people involve in such a huge operation plus those aware of it could keep a secret so tight? Was it conducted by robots?
Since when did America ever need to attack itself to justify it's own action? At least, couldn't they have done it one a smaller scale? A single bomb would've been enough to tick off the population. Why give a blow to your economy and destroy so much when you just want to generate fear?
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I'm going to bed so I'll answer these quick: A well planned demolition can be carried out with relatively few well placed 'cutting' charges. It does not require an enourmous crew, especially if they have as much time as they want. (Many floors of the WTC were not occupied, also in the weeks prior to 911 there were several evacuations for 'power outages' and fire drills)
The attacks of 911 were primarily a psychological operation, designed to stir up massive fear, hatred and flag waving patriotism. The spectacular and traumatic images of the quarter mile high towers collapsing was broadcast again and again until ingrained in the minds of americans. The attacks provided the pretext for the bogus 'War on Terror', and illicited massive sympathy and good will around the world. They also gave the excuse for the massive increase in defense spending which would not have been possible otherwise.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 23:44:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Ok, so Pearl Harbor was a set up too? Even Japan are into the conspiracy? Ok...
Anyway, you "answered" my question about motive.
But these remain to be answered:
----
But do you honestly think that all the demolition people, all the people involve in such a huge operation plus those aware of it could keep a secret so tight? Was it conducted by robots?
Since when did America ever need to attack itself to justify it's own action? At least, couldn't they have done it one a smaller scale? A single bomb would've been enough to tick off the population. Why give a blow to your economy and destroy so much when you just want to generate fear?
----
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 23:39:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Again, if you really cared you could find out yourself. As far as motive, you may have heard of a neoconservative think tank called Project for a New American Century, whose members include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/12_24_02/America_Pearl_Harbored/america_pearl_harbored.html
.................
The group's essential demand was for hefty increases in defense spending. "We need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future," the statement's first principle reads.
PNAC plan entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century," reveals that the current members of Bush's cabinet had already planned, before the 2000 presidential election, to take military control of the Gulf region whether Saddam Hussein is in power or not.
A "core mission" for the transformed U.S. military is to "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars," according to the PNAC.
The strategic "transformation" of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination would require a huge increase in defense spending to "a minimum level of 3.5 to 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, adding $15 billion to $20 billion to total defense spending annually," the PNAC plan said.
"The process of transformation," the plan said, "is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor."
American Free Press asked Christopher Maletz, assistant director of the PNAC about what was meant by the need for "a new Pearl Harbor."
"They needed more money to up the defense budget for raises, new arms, and future capabilities," Maletz said. "Without some disaster or catastrophic event" neither the politicians nor the military would have approved, Maletz said.
The "new Pearl Harbor," in the form of the terror attacks of Sept. 11, provided the necessary catalyst to put the global war plan into effect. Congress quickly allocated $40 billion to fund the "war on terrorism" shortly after 9-11.
Similar significant increases in defense spending are planned for 2003 (to $365 billion) and 2004 (to at least $378 billion) in line with the PNAC plan.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 23:17:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Your theory is interesting master.
But do you honestly think that all the demolition people, all the people involve in such a huge operation plus those aware of it could keep a secret so tight? Was it conducted by robots?
Since when did America ever need to attack itself to justify it's own action? At least, couldn't they have done it one a smaller scale? A single bomb would've been enough to tick off the population. Why give a blow to your economy and destroy so much when you just want to generate fear?
These are valid questions you probably didn't even bother to ask yourself.
You can probably pick apart a lot of stuff that is "weird" on 9/11, but what's the motive, how does that fit in the whole picture?
I can predict I will not be enlightened.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 23:02:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:47:40 (#)
Ranking: -2
------------------------------
It is not hard to believe at all - I believe the US government has done such things before on a smaller scale. THe issue here is purely mechanical. We don't believe you because your arguments have already been disproved, and you're ignoring any evidence that contradicts your own point.
First of all I can't understand how anyone could allow doubt to linger in their mind. As soon I had the slightest inclination that the official story was a fraud I got stuck into research to put make sure I knew what was really going on. If you really cared you'd look into it yourself.
To your point thorpe, I don't beleive I was proved wrong at all on the Twin Towers. Several people came up with elaborate explanations of why they would collapsed, but these were always based on ideas that I had already painstakingly disproved, such as the max. temperature, so it was quite frustrating and circular to argue with them.
But even the most stubborn nay sayers on that thread was stumped by one fact, and that is the complete collapse of building 7 into its footprint.
Building seven was across the street from the twin towers, obviously it didn't get hit by an aircraft, but it collapsed vertically into a pile of rubble several hours after the twin towers. That is a perfect demolition, an engineering feat. The owner of the WTC, larry silverstien, said later in an interview that he decided the 'pull it' http://thewebfairy.com/911/pullit/ . You cannot rig a building for demolition in a matter of hours. A building that large and sturdy would take weeks of planning, and of course firefighters do not know how to carry out demolitions. Here you can see video footage of the building telescope into its own footprint http://www.wtc7.net/videos.html
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:53:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Linking to sites that don't objectively look at things are worthless. There is no difference between an ultra-wackedout-conspiracy theory website and one ran by the government. They both have their own selfish agenda.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:48:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OK! I'LL CHECK IT OUT! MEANWHILE, COULD YOU TELL ME WHO SHOT KENNEDY AND IF HITLER WAS INDEED A WEREWOLF?
WE'LL TALK AGAIN MY TUTOR!
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:47:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 18:45:59 (#)
Ranking: 0
Why is it so hard to believe that a government ( or governments) could have carried out this attack to frame the people they wish to invade, and yet you will accept uncritically the idea that 19 schmos could have somehow carried out such precision synchronised strike?
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It is not hard to believe at all - I believe the US government has done such things before on a smaller scale. THe issue here is purely mechanical. We don't believe you because your arguments have already been disproved, and you're ignoring any evidence that contradicts your own point.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:40:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
WhatReallyHappened is a good start, it's a news site updated hourly http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/framingarabs
AmericanTerrorism is very strong stuff, but well written and researched
http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/AmericanStateTerrorism.html
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:23:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
DO YOU THINK THAT'S A GOOD BOOK FOR A BEGINNER? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592090265/102-9744510-3221752?v=glance I NEED TO AWAKE FROM MY SLUMBER AND BE FREED BY THE ULTRA-SUPER-EERIE POWER THE GOVERNMENT HAS OVER MY MIND! :~( HELP ME JIMMY!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:19:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I DON'T WANT TO PRESENT OTHER FACTS BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE TRIED THERE http://www.ubersite.com/m/62719 AND YOU PWNED THEM WITH YOUR SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE OR SIMPLY DISMISSED THEM AS STUPID OR SHEEPISH WHICH IS GREAT BECAUSE WE NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO SHED LIGHT ON THE COMPLEXITY OF THE UNIVERSE
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 22:05:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Uh oh! Calincort has had yet another uber-tantrum! This is what happens when he doesn't get his way!
~~~What about the "other" facts? Many do come in opposition with your theories you know? Why don't you ever mention them? ~~
Your welcome to present such facts, I invite you to try. Good luck pal!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 21:54:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
As for the rest of you, I urge you to check the facts,"""
The fact that you call your theories "FACTS" really shows how stubborn and borderline extreme you are. What about the "other" facts? Many do come in opposition with your theories you know? Why don't you ever mention them?
Blah, you're worthless. I will do as you wish and convert to your utmost TRUTH!
THE ALIENS WILL WANT US TO REFUEL THEIR MOTHERSHIP WHEN THEY COME RECOVER THEIR VESSEL AMERICANS SHOT OVER NEW MEXICO AND THE UPCOMING POLESHIFT CAUSED BY PLANET-X WILL FORCE US TO BUILD NEW INFRASTRUCTURE WITH THE USE OF OIL SO BUSH WHO IS AWARE THAT BOTH EVENTS WILL CAUSE A MAJOR WORLD-WIDE ENERGY SHORTAGE AND WHO IS THE ACTUAL KING OF THE WORLD LIKE AL PACINO IN DEVIL'S ADVOCATE ATTACKED HIS OWN COUNTRY TO JUSTIFY AN INVASION OF AFGHANISTAN TO ACCESS THE OIL-RICH CASPIAN SEA EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW AMERICANS DON'T NEED A REASON OR A GREEN LIGHT TO DO AS THEY PLEASE! OH MY GOD JIMMY THANKS FOR EMOTING PARANOIA IN ME AND MAKING ME FEEL SPECIAL THEREFORE UNSHEEPISH! I CAN NOW GO DO LIKE YOU AND PREACH THE GOOD NEWS TO MY BLIND FRIENDS WHICH WILL PROVIDE ME ATTENTION AND A SENSE OF SUPERIORITY I CAN'T WAIT!
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 21:25:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That is a silly criticism, everyone has to get their information from somewhere, fact and figures do not spontaniously materialise in my mind, and of course the mainstream media will not touch this subject with a ten foot pole so you have to research on the internet.
You resemble the people you look down on in that you hide under the bed covers when the debate gets uncomfortable, all the while presenting it as some kind moral victory over me because I'm an 'extremist' or 'right wing', just as Brianthewhatever would ignore you about Bush on the grounds that your a 'liberal nut', facts be damned.
I'm sure you'll have a response to this that you consider 'scathing', but what you apparantly don't realise is that in order to care what someone thinks I have to have respect for him, and it goes without saying I have none for you, so save your 'wit' for someone else.
As for the rest of you, I urge you to check the facts, I'm not a con artist, I have nothing to gain by fooling people, and I aint stupid neither, honest.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 20:55:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 20:40:49 (#)
Ranking: 0
You can now add hypocrite to your list of admirable qualities. You don't want to listen to anything I say because I'm too insulting. Kind of the like way you are insulting towards people you think consider ignorant, such as DJMatt and BrianTruthSpeaker. Your view of them is my view of you.
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The difference s that I never claimed to hold the truth.
The only thing that bothers me are parrots. Like you. People can have the opinion they want, but at least try to form your own. Not repeat what you saw on Fox News or on some bullshit PlanetX pole shift website, which is probably where you get most of your information.
I can't stand DJMatt or Brianthejimmy'sequivalent but I happen to like domenad or mccullum even though we really really don't think alike. I even enjoy chatting with the former from time to time.
You must be very lonely if the only thing you care about is enligthening strangers on the internet.
Don't you have friends to convert?
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 20:51:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Ha, that last post was a structural catastrophy, I will lose the respect of all the intellectuals here. :) Symbollic +2 for me.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 20:40:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You can now add hypocrite to your list of admirable qualities. You don't want to listen to anything I say because I'm too insulting. Kind of the like way you are insulting towards people you think consider ignorant, such as DJMatt and BrianTruthSpeaker. Your view of them is my view of you.
You tin heads need to get with the program, Jimmy's program, all it requires is grow a pair, and you'll get truth, justice and three extra inches on your dick, garunteed. If you do the research and get a different conclusion, maybe you can change my mind, I'm easy like sunday morning.
Submitted by Dead_0hi0_Sky (user info) at 2005-05-01 20:04:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
boring.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 20:03:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Wazza- the problem with Jimmy is not his believes, it's how he tries to cram them in people's throat. Maybe he's brianthetruthspeaker. They're very alike.
Holding the "facts" is one thing, having credibility is another.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 19:59:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 19:06:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes I can see how asking you a straight forward question has upset you, I am quite a tyrant.
Perhaps you should stick to posting pictures and discussing whether or not you are homosexual.
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I answered your straight forward question you little know-all prick. I said it's not hard to believe, but I don't believe it. Is english to hard to read for your feeble mind? Or do you always ignore answers when they're not the one you want to hear?
Perhaps you should change your approach if you want to be heard because insulting people certainly won't work.
Until you figure that out, I and others, will continue to address you as a troll.
Submitted by Wazza (user info) at 2005-05-01 19:32:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I dont think anyone can blame Jimmy,he is obviously brainwashed by this idiot Griffen,the retired Christian with 30 years teaching Theology,seems to me he couldnt prove any shit he has been teaching so he has diversed and is trying to make a name for himself with this shit.
It seems to me that 30 years of slugging away at the Bible has affected his brain.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 19:06:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes I can see how asking you a straight forward question has upset you, I am quite a tyrant.
Perhaps you should stick to posting pictures and discussing whether or not you are homosexual.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 18:58:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It's not hard to believe at all. Some people I know believe it. I don't, for various reasons. The theory doesn't bother me, the messenger (you) does.
I won't even try to engage in a discussion with you because you don't want to talk with people, you want to conform them to your messianic view of the world.
You're not very different from the right-wing nutjobs.
Bye Jimmy
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 18:45:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Why is it so hard to believe that a government ( or governments) could have carried out this attack to frame the people they wish to invade, and yet you will accept uncritically the idea that 19 schmos could have somehow carried out such precision synchronised strike?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-01 18:30:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 09:44:29 (#)
Ranking: 0
Caulaincourt your cowardice is made worse by the fact that you strut around sermoninising people on their complacency and ignorance. In reality you are guilty of the exact same foolish petulance, that you chastise others for. To remain wilfuly ignorant and dismissive of unpleasant realities, these are sheep like qualities, characteristic of the kind of people found waving flags and signs at political party conventions. Let me know if you decide to challenge the facts, or even(heaven forbid) engage in a civilised discussion of the evidence. Better yet, do your own research and then you can help me convert the unbeleivers.
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No normal debate is possible with you. I've seen people try with valid and decents argument but you just threw in some more buzz words (sheep! blind! wake up!).
You are no different from any extremist. You've built yourself a truth of your own. A world of conspiracies, omnipresent governments, world orders and whatnot. It is a complete waste of time to argue with someone like you. You preach ("the unbelievers"...you sound Islamic), you don't debate.
Proceed with your usual rhetoric. Nobody cares anyway.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-05-01 09:44:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Caulaincourt your cowardice is made worse by the fact that you strut around sermoninising people on their complacency and ignorance. In reality you are guilty of the exact same foolish petulance, that you chastise others for. To remain wilfuly ignorant and dismissive of unpleasant realities, these are sheep like qualities, characteristic of the kind of people found waving flags and signs at political party conventions. Let me know if you decide to challenge the facts, or even(heaven forbid) engage in a civilised discussion of the evidence. Better yet, do your own research and then you can help me convert the unbeleivers.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-04-29 10:21:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
ta gueule
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-29 10:04:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
GeorgeW's lie about seeing the first plane hit, live on TV, wasn't a grammatical error or accidental remark, he said it directly and clearly:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
QUESTION: ... how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?
BUSH: Well... (APPLAUSE) Thank you, Jordan (ph).
Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida.
And my chief of staff, Andy Card - actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works.
And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower - the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-29 09:57:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That's it right there thorpe, you summed up the reaction of everyone on this forum.
(with the notable exception of kai).
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-04-29 05:34:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
La dee da dee da *covering ears*
I'm not listening.. I'm not listening...
Submitted by congo (user info) at 2005-04-28 22:22:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
>>>Why did George W say he watched a live feed of the first plane hit when that wasn't on live TV
Because he's an idiot who makes a living out of speaking poorly in public and not thinking well on his feet.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 21:30:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
WTC7 collapsed/ no plane hit it
WTC owner admits he had WTC7 demolished (how'd he do it?)
Jet fighters didn't intercept/ there's an airforce base right next to pentagon
People in the stock market betting on specific terrorism
How did people who could barely fly little Cessna puddle jumpers pilot commercial airliners with military precision
FBI director says hijacker used fake id's therefore we don't know who they really were
At least 7 of the accused hijackers turn up alive
Where are the videos of the hijackers in the airports
Why did George W say he watched a live feed of the first plane hit when that wasn't on live TV http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/9-11/firstplane.htm
Submitted by SilvrWolf (user info) at 2005-04-28 17:55:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 17:07:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
"There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world."
Thomas Jefferson
------
Yeah, except the little truth that he sired a child with one of his slaves. He managed to keep that "truth" hidden from most of the world for two generations. Hypocrisy abounds, Jimmy.
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2005-04-28 17:54:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i hate politics and debates between librals and conservatives. you're all blind.
but...
the people who write these things always quote philosophers and theologists and other people with no real expertise. why don't they ever quote a fire engineer? people who study materials and the rate of change of yield stress with respect to temperature? get a story with that and people may consider it, but
no matter how expert a theologist is, he's stilla theologist. not a phd in fire protection engineering.
Submitted by SilvrWolf (user info) at 2005-04-28 17:36:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
So, if you can get roughly 1/3 of the people to believe this excrement, the problem will go away? Like magic? All you gotta do is believe, right?
Fuckin' a, Jimmy! Even you can't be that naive. The fact is, you and all your paranoid ilk don't have a fucking solution because your entire convoluted life is based on thinking you're part of something bigger than yourselves. You also believe it's your holy mission to bring the truth to the unenlightened. If you were to get all of these people to believe you, you would have nothing left to validate your existence until you cooked up some new "problem" that must be solved.
It's becoming apparent that you possess not one single, original thought in your head. You fire off quote after quote and link after link, all without any original input of your own. The problem lies with you, man. While I can consider, contemplate and comprehend the angle you're approaching here, you refuse to try to do the same. Because of some paranoid bullshit you've picked up on (read, not your ideas), you just cannot consider that a big fucking fireball of jet fuel MIGHT have caused a building to collapse. (Cue the Jimmy-School-of-Conspiracies WTC7 trumpet) I don't want to hear about WTC7. It's called debris; collapsing 1,000-ft-tall towers tend to produce a lot of it. Point being, it is YOU who are blinding yourself by refusing to have the least amount of objectivity.
You want people to start to believe you, Jimmy? Then come up with a fucking solution. Not some links to websites that just keep rehashing the same you shit you regurgitate. Not quotes from some long dead founding father who's probably spinning in their grave at the state of politics today. Try approaching some original thoughts, man. You can't just say that the truth will set us free because you know as well as I that isn't true at all. It just brings more questions. What would you do about it once the truth was out? How would you get the big evil g-men out of power? You don't have any answers because like all of your conspiracy-minded friends, you just can't see that far ahead. You say you want to protect your family and friends? Then start looking forward instead of always backward. I think you'll find that many more people are willing to believe and even follow someone who offers solutions instead of just standing there pointing at the problem.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 17:07:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world."
Thomas Jefferson
Submitted by Brianthetruthspeaker (user info) at 2005-04-28 16:36:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Random terrorist acts against innocents is no way to garner international support for their cause. Instead of teaching terrorist mantras to their children, they should teach them: "Tart words make no friends; a spoonful or honey will catch more flies than a gallon of vinegar"--Benjamin Franklin
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 16:04:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth."
"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments. "
"We should not look back unless it is to derive useful lessons from past errors, and for the purpose of profiting by dearly bought experience. "
George Washington
"Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper. "
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. "
"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day. "
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. "
"A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit."
Thomas Jefferson
Submitted by The_Grammar_Nazi (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:47:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
"When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber."
"It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations."
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash."
-- Sir Winston Motherfuckin' Churchill
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:30:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance."
Robert Kennedy
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:12:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
To remind you, it was you that initiated personal attacks and name calling, and you did it again here. As to what to do once everyone realises 911 was a hoax, we don't need a plan, the truth will set us free. It wouldn't even take a majority, just a critical mass. Only 30% of Americans supported the revolution against Britain, and even less did anything about it.
I can't just do nothing, you wouldn't be any kind of a man if you knew this and did nothing . The next 'terrorist' attack could kill my family. If I can get the few hundred people here on side, maybe they'll each convince a dozen people, and on it goes in a ripple effect. Maybe it's not much but it's all I do. All my fellow human beings are my brothers and sisters, and tens of thousands of them have had their lives snuffed out because of this monumental deception, which could turn to millions if it escalated to nuclear level. Even if i get nothing but snide remarks and patronising lectures, I have to try. As a German philosopher said, "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Submitted by SilvrWolf (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:23:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Whoa. No personal attacks this time? No name calling? I guess I'll have to respond in a mature manner as well.
As I'm forced to remind you again, I despise our government. You, along with the narrow contingent that shares your ideas, only help to advance their covert causes and black operations by beating this dead horse. The government wants you to believe fully in the conspiracy theories. It conveniently focuses your attention away from the real atrocities they're commmitting. Blind leading the blind, so to apeak. Congratulations, Jimmy, you ARE the sheep that you call so many of us; it's just that your flock is a whole lot smaller.
Hypothetically speaking, what if you change my (or others) opinions on the WTC incident? What then? What the hell have you managed to formulate in the way of a solution? You make people believe you and you have accomplished nothing without some sort of plan of action. So if you can get the masses to believe you, how are you going to bring the "Monsters of 9/11" to justice?
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:06:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
To spin that round, the corporate media would never lie would it? Politicians would never lie would they? Say it with me now -
the government isn't lying about 911
the government wasn't lying about WMD
the government has our best interest in mind
the leader is good
the leader is great
we surrender out will
as of this date
Submitted by SilvrWolf (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:50:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Ahhh, the Holy Pickup Truck of Idiocy rides again...
I'd sit here and textually rape your moronic ideas again, Jimmy, but frankly, you bore me. I've yet to see you express an original thought from that underused cranium of yours; you just regurgitate drivel you dredged up on the internet. Remember kids: everything you read on the internet is 100% true. The 'net wouldn't lie to us, would it?
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:30:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Long story short, Jimmy took on the world and won, as per usual.
Submitted by nrduncan (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:24:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You again?
http://www.ubersite.com/m/62719
You got your ass handed to you there. Anyone who wants to know the truth, go there and read jimmy's moronic comments.
That and the person working behind me is white, so that must have meant that the government used bombs to blow up the buildings.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:13:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I hate to disillusion you so cruelly, but public restrooms are pits of filth whether they're Menz or Womenz. I think my purse got AIDS from when I set it down on the changing table while I washed my hands.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:12:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
God works in mysterious ways eh?
Submitted by The_Grammar_Nazi (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:09:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:44:43 (#)
Ranking: 0
Graffiti seen in the Georgia Square Mall women's restroom yesterday:
God will Destroy this Nation for the Slaughter of little Babies and SIN & LUST
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy shit, my whole world view has just been shattered!!!
There's actually graffitti in women's rooms? I thought those places were supposed to be goddamned immaculate.
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:07:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:48:26 (#)
Ranking: -2
Jimmy's camping on his post. It might make a run for most heated. I'd better tell bart.
============
BWAHAHAHAHAAAA
Submitted by knucklesnelson (user info) at 2005-04-28 13:07:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
meh
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:50:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Zak, even if that were true (which it most definately is not), it wouldn't explain the demolition of WTC7, which was across the street, hence no jet feul.
Check this out http://www.wtc7.net/contents.html
Submitted by congo (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:49:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 because you didn't write this. Cut-and-paste bores me.
-6 because all this proves is that there's other morons out there just like you, and that makes me sad.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:48:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Jimmy's camping on his post. It might make a run for most heated. I'd better tell bart.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:47:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
sounds like the christian right must have been at fault then, if that was the message.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:44:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Graffiti seen in the Georgia Square Mall women's restroom yesterday:
God will Destroy this Nation for the Slaughter of little Babies and SIN & LUST
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:42:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The fact that fire will not bring down a skyscraper is not proof of explosives. I think the deciding factor was the aviation fuel, which burned far hotter than a typical blaze, causing the structure to fatally weaken.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:38:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Good man.
Submitted by kai070169 (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:36:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fuck everyone Jimmy I liked it good 'nuff.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:23:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And you make me sick, go figure
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:17:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You crack me up.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:17:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
A stupid liberal? Who'd of thunk it
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:15:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No point re-hashing al lthe same shit you spew in all your other posts.
And I'm a fucking liberal.
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:09:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hows being a goofy dork working out for you
Submitted by Brdn_Nkd (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:09:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
+1 knowing there's another Uberer in Madison but the rest sucked. overall the writing's not horrible but what is your message? Just that we should all watch this Griffin guy? That his info is somehow better than all the other drivel that's out there?
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:07:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I do alot of work for the city, so you can believe me.
Ft. Lauderdale is about to become a soverign nation.
All your beach are belong to us
Submitted by Jimmy (user info) at 2005-04-28 12:07:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks for calling attention to the post.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-04-28 11:59:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-04-28 11:57:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
One time a homeless dude came up to me and told me he was a doctor.
He was holding a knife, so I believed him.