Religion Rant (700 hits)
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Submitted by SpikeGoddess (View user info) at 2005-04-28 14:19:56 EDT
if i've said it once, i've said it a thousand times----READ JOSEPH CAMPBELL!!!!!!
the problem with religion is that people have been taught in western soceity to believe that what gives religious beliefs their validity is literal, objective fact, based on historical events. that's why people go shitty over trying to discredit scientific evidence that is not in accordance with scripture. this is why people lose their faith when they realise that historical truth doesn't fit with the idea of noah fitting EVERY species of animal on the ark (or when they read the bible enough to know that there are TWO flood accounts, one from the J text and one from the P text, each of which is TOTALLY different, not to mention that there are also TWO creation stories, and many other examples of textual contradictions and overlap that prove the book to be the result of distinctly different groups of writers with different purposes for writing) religion serves as a window into the eternal, but you have to squint your eyes to see through the pane, rather than fixating on the scratches and dead bugs on the glass itself.
for example:
a literal reading of the adam and eve story would 'teach' the following:
~god is very much like human beings, sculpting with his hands, breathing, speaking, and experiencing emotion just as we do.
~god literally made man out of clay. that is what human beings are made of.
~the first woman literally was made out of the rib of the first man. unlike in nature where the females give birth, the first woman was born of a man's side.
~disobedience to god will make god angry, and you will get in trouble for it
a metaphorical reading would suggest something else:
~human beings have arisen from the earth, but it is the breath of spirit that gives them life and animates them, making them spiritual beings. this 'breath of life' is provided by the divine principle
~men and women are 'made differently' and exhibit physiological differences, but both are animated by the same spiritual breath of life
~the state of grace is acheived by NOT knowing the difference between good and evil. the state of grace is a state of non-judgement, of accepting the world as it is and living in it. it is when one decides that there is a difference between good and evil that one loses touch with the divine principle, who has given rise to ALL things---including the trickster serpent.
i think that we're living in a very interesting time. the old religion is in its death throes, it seems to me. everybody is waiting for armageddon---they're writing books about it, making mini-series about it on TV, flocking to rome to view the dead pope, and desperately creating reactionary factions that want holy war, bans on any kind of activity that isn't fitting with their religion, and trying to eradicate scientific evidence that is contrary to their 2,000+ year old stories.
we just might be on the brink of waking up. if we'd all take a look at our spiritual beliefs metaphorically rather than literally, and if we'd all begin to release dogma in favor of mysticsm, then i think we could see some incredible changes in the world. even still, i think the supreme challenge that spirituality calls us to is to accept and affirm the world *as it is*. yes, with the death and destruction and disease. yes with your personal pain and the pain of others that is so incomprehensible. yes with genocide. this is not to say that those things should go unaided or unpunished, but rather to say that the world AS IT IS is a manifestation of divinity, and maybe our concept that "god is good" is somehow fundamentally wrong. maybe, just MAYBE, we are in no position to judge 'god' as *good* OR *evil*! we need to take ownership of human law and leave divine law to the universe.
religion and myth DO tell the truth. the problem is when people forget the KIND of truth-telling it is and interpret it literally. after all "the tao that can be spoken is not the tao"---meaning that if we can speak about something and explain it perfectly, it cannot be the divine. at best it is a window into the divine that cannot be spoken, and a hint at how to live a life that works better.
in my opinion, religion should let the focus of the afterlife slip into the background a bit. as campbell says, "eternity is a dimension of the now" not something located in the future. this IS eternity! welcome to it! is sitting in front of a computer reading something i scrawled into an itnernet forum the way you want to spend your eternity? i thought not. so go find a myth that will help you to restructure your life so that you are following the things that make you feel most whole, connected, joyful----and live your eternity.
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Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2005-08-13 10:47:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
the old religion is in its death throes, it seems to me. everybody is waiting for armageddon---they're writing books about it, making mini-series about it on TV, flocking to rome to view the dead pope, and desperately creating reactionary factions that want holy war, bans on any kind of activity that isn't fitting with their religion, and trying to eradicate scientific evidence that is contrary to their 2,000+ year old stories.
we just might be on the brink of waking up.
***
"death throes?" what could make you think that? perhaps living in an advanced urban Western society is getting to you. even in America, traditional Christianity is far from dead -who won the last two elections, and why? outside of America, traditional religion is even more rampant. its only in its "death throes" in metropolitan areas, and even then it's often more in a process of change than elimination(e.g., Catholicism in European societies).
as for waiting for the armageddon: it's always been like that. nothing new, at all.
there is no "waking up" that will take place, because there is nothing to wake up out of. this -ignorance and holding onto religion merely for the sake of having something to identify with- is simply part of being a member of the species. we're made for it.
Submitted by sebcharrot (user info) at 2005-07-26 18:21:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Just to say congratulations. So far you're winning, and I don't see it changing. So well done.
Submitted by mysterious.adventure (user info) at 2005-05-06 01:56:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 for JC.
---
MOYERS: And what does the idea of reincarnation suggest?
CAMPBELL: There are dimensions of your being and a potential for realization and consciousness that are not included in your concept of yourself. Your life is much deeper and broader than you conceive it to be here. What you are living is but a fractional inkling of what is really within you, what gives you life, breadth, and depth. But, you can live in terms of that depth. And when you can experience it, you suddenly see that all the religions are talking of that.
(p.70 THE POWER OF MYTH)
---
MOYERS: What about this idea of good and evil in mythology, of life as a conflict between the forces of darkness and the forces of light?
CAMPBELL: That is a Zoroastrian idea, which has come into Judaism and Christianity. In other traditions, good and evil are relative to the position in which you are standing. What is good for one is evil for the other. And you play your part, not withdrawing from the world when you realize how horrible it is, but seeing that this horror is simply the foreground of a wonder: a mysterium tremendum et fascinans.
"All life is sorrowful" is the first Buddhust saying, and so it is. It wouldn't be life if there were not temporality involved, which is sorrow - loss, loss, loss. You've got to say yes to life and see it as magnificent this way; for this is surely the way God intended it.
(p.80-81 THE POWER OF MYTH)
Submitted by Rawrg (user info) at 2005-04-29 04:07:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I take comfort in the fact that I know nothing, nor do I particularly have a need to know at this point.
If you want to believe then believe, if not, don't. In all metaphysical reality, there is no way to really know the truth about anything that you're told.
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2005-04-28 18:26:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
So you're telling people to be open-minded and try new things in hopes of finding meaning in life? Ironic for a post in which the first line basically belittles everyone who hasn't read the work of a specific author.
This post is pretentious horseshit.
Submitted by ubern00b (user info) at 2005-04-28 17:57:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Deep
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-04-28 17:49:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by SpikeGoddess (user info) at 2005-04-28 16:55:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
i know next to nothing about eastern religions and i'm not trying to say "east beats west" or anything of that nature.
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When you preface your argument with "western culture" does yada yada yada, you do seem to imply that eastern culture does beat western. Maybe that isn't wht you meant, but that is what it appeared to me.
Submitted by SpikeGoddess (user info) at 2005-04-28 16:55:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
fatman,
i think faith is an amazing thing, and i think that christianity is an amazing religion. the only qurarrel i have with christianity or any other religion (and christianity is NOT the only religion that i have this qurrel with) is the extent to which it believes to be the 'one true way'. ain't no such thing. faith is beautiful, and faith recognizes that there is no need for historical validation of spiritual metaphors. truely faithful people are not the ones who i think misunderstand their religions.
and i don't mean to single out christianity, that's just the religion that i personally had the most experience with. also, i know next to nothing about eastern religions and i'm not trying to say "east beats west" or anything of that nature. ask loki about that stuff.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2005-04-28 16:03:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Silly pagans . . . .
Submitted by thinkbulb (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:58:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Religion from the west, east, north or south are all pretty much the same in the end, and I don't like any of them. It has nothing to do with where they're from.
You wrote this because it's now trendy to like Asian things. Buddhism is the new 'in' religion just like how soy sauce is the new 'in' flavoring.
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:43:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I remember you. You're the one who thinks monks can reduce crime rates via the power of meditation.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:43:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well I wasn't exactly right but it was still shit, if for no other reason than the "western society" comment.
I can agree with the whole finding your own path, and a religion that makes you feel better able to deal with life. But what the hell does this have to do with western society? You don't think there are kids in thailand who find no fulfilment in Buddhism, and turn to christianity? Or people that turn from a shinto/zen belief to Christianity? You don't think hindus and any of the other religions above have a type of dogma to them?
I love how people can stereotype western christianity into a small strict faith filled with literal meanings, dogma and narrowmindedness. But any non-western belief is an open and understanding approach to a spritual happiness and self actualization. The best part is you probably thought you were being open minded when you wrote this.
Submitted by MANICMOTHER (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:40:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Hey Goddess, let's go get locked in a room with a bottle of vodka and wax philosophical. Could be a good conversation.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:28:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"the problem with religion is that people have been taught in western soceity to believe that what gives religious beliefs their validity is literal, objective fact, based on historical events."
I stopped right there.
I am going to guess at the rest of this post.
You read a book that makes you see the error of western thinking in regards to religion. In that same book you read about eastern religions and on how the surface they seem to be completely different, but with the wisdom and clear thinking you learned from said book you realized they teach the same underlying themes and values. If only the rest of Uber and the world could be as open minded as you with your new eastern outlook all the worlds problems would be solved.
Submitted by FATMANTPK (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:08:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What about faith? If we have faith in what the Bible says, is that so bad? Some have faith in necklace stones, Tarot cards and many other things. That seems to be acceptable to others. Thpse "charms" get the "If thats what you believe" shrug. But if it is the Bible that is the faith being discussed, then there is a waterfall of critcism.
Why is it that we only hear people speaking out against Christianity when the word "religion" is used?
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2005-04-28 15:03:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
read Transformations of Myth through Time; it supports your view.
Submitted by Creepy_guy (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:48:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
religion and myth DO tell the truth. the problem is when people forget the KIND of truth-telling it is and interpret it literally. after all "the tao that can be spoken is not the tao"---meaning that if we can speak about something and explain it perfectly, it cannot be the divine. at best it is a window into the divine that cannot be spoken, and a hint at how to live a life that works better.
________________________________________________
Perfection.
Submitted by congo (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:39:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I really liked this. You've put into words so perfectly something I was recently struggling to put into words myself.
Submitted by knucklesnelson (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:34:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
adam west was my favorite batman too.
Submitted by mbstateside (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:31:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"Right now we've got freedom and responsibility. It's a very groovy time"
Submitted by wtf_is_going_on (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:28:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
this was zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
Oh, sorry, I fell asleep! what was I saying?
Submitted by mockidol (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:27:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:21:05 (#)
Ranking: 2
I keep my fingernails long so they click when I play the piano.
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Submitted by icepigs (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:26:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So, reglion is a personal thing then?
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:25:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*Yawn*
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:24:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
everyone must find their own path
Submitted by WhatTheHell (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:22:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
That guy makes good tomato soup...
Mmmmm-mmmmm good!
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2005-04-28 14:21:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I keep my fingernails long so they click when I play the piano.