In response to jack in response to me in response to him in the first place, or, NIDs. (453 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: -0.38 on 15 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by MoneyG (View user info) at 2005-05-16 22:19:42 EDT
I originally posted this as a comment, but it was too long. Sorry for further contributing to the overcrowding of Ubersite, but here's my response, in verbatim.
First two things. 1) There is no better way to get your name out there than to get really pissed. 2) yeah, I reread my post and I agree that I would not under normal circumstances have created a new thread, called you a fascist, or insulted your beliefs. However, those were not normal circumstances and I apologize for the language of the posts.
While I do feel that this deserves a post of its own, I will keep it in this one to appease those who feel the site is overcrowded with bullshit, which it is.
I'm not going to go through your post piece by piece, because it's not very effective, but I will start by establishing that I did read the entire thing. This is under the understanding that you will read this entire response. If you don't, I'm just gonna take everything here and copy/paste it into a new post, so please read, because this needs to be said and heard.
Let's get something straight first. People who oppose this, while they identify themselves as liberals, are being inherently conservative on the issue. The usage of these two words has changed dramatically in the last few years, but please understand, you're the one inviting the government to step into your life and watch your every move. By favoring this, you're therefore favoring a larger more powerful government with drastically increased ability to track individuals and groups. Don't insult liberals; you are one.
Someone before me made a comment quoting Benjamin Franklin, and another person call him an idiot. Understand that the quote is not being taken out of context, and could not be more appropriate. What Franklin said was, that people who are afraid, and who invite the government to watch and control them, do not deserve the freedom that the United States formally held sacred, nor are they truly capable of handling it. This was a country based on the rights of man, wherein a person determined their own self-worth, and where government was a small institution designed for little more than keeping the peace and acting as a united front against foreign nations. This is what government was for then, and what it is for now. Unfortunatly, this is not how it's being used. The government of the United States has taken a sad turn for the worse in recent days, by imposing the will of a select few on the masses, by using legislation to advance political and social agendas, and by taking an active part in American business, thereby dropping the original policy of laisez faire. (This last one is a more complex issue however. The government is neccessary to do things like monitor the market to make sure all trades are made fairly and openly, and this basically falls under keeping the peace. Unfortunaly, the government has gone beyond this, into places and things where it should have no power.)
I national ID card represents an integral loss of the freedoms that Americans once held dear. First and foremost, you're giving up your right to privacy. While the issue of what's private and what's public domain is subjective and constantly changing, the right to essential privacy is vital. If it were not, it would not have been guarenteed in the Fourth Amendment.(oh, and by the way, you desperatly need to read the constitution, and figure out why it was written as it was.) The government has no right whatsoever to know your whereabouts at any given time, and for good reason. I know you are now going to ask why privacy is so neccessary when terrorists can walk about the United States freely. It would almost seem like that would be the view of a revolutionary. 'fraid so Jack.
The government of the United States is based on a principal. Unlike any other government of the time, it was established by the people that it would later govern, who were then responsible to keep the government in check. This however, is no longer occurring the way it used to. People must always be revolutionaries. You as an American must question authority; what does it say, who makes the law and how is it enforced. Even though it sounds like an issue that you can brush aside, you actually do have to oppose the status quo.
The problem is that we no longer do that. Americans as a whole are willfully following their president without asking what he's doing or why. Our government is creeping into our lives in areas it never has before, and we are doing nothing to check it. If I have to point out examples to you, then you're already screwed. I am sincerly sorry for that.
We need to have privacy. We need to have free speech. We need to have a free and independent press. We no longer have any of these things.
The press became contained years ago. Journalists are checked by the government and now can no longer print whatever they wish. The right to free speech is gone. I guarantee you that you cannot say whatever you wish about the government and it's activities. The government is already silencing the viewpoints of dissenters, and the sad part is that with the media controlled, you'd never know about it. Privacy ended when Social Security began. Not so much social security alone, but the New Deal in general. It ended when every American citizen was assigned a number.
I'm sorry Jack, but the government wants you to be a drone. They want you to go to work everyday of the week, to pay only what you need to survive, and to live a sad, pathetic, uneventful life. They do not want you to have original thoughts, or to critisize them.
This is where that little piece of plastic comes in. It's subtle. It's convenient. And you'll never notice it once it's there. But it's just one more way that the government is going to watch you, control you, and silence you when neccessary. I have to say Jack, I for one don't want Big Brother to know where I am where ever I go. You on the other hand, are inviting the guy to dinner.
May I make a suggestion while I'm at it? Try to find out why the United States was attacked by terrorists, the world trade center in particular. Do these people really hate freedom? It takes a lot of shit-taking to make some one go halfway around the world to kill themselves. They must have a reason, and I guarentee that "Americans are evil," aint it. Ask yourself this: What was the United States doing prior to the attacks. Odds are you don't know, and you'd probably be told not to talk about it if you did, but you know the truth just as much as I do. These people have a lot more to hate us for than just our freedoms. The doesn't matter anyway. We're not free. That's just something that politicians say to make you feel better.
Then, why the World Trade Center. Did that cripple America. Did stocks plummet, did the market lose its bottom and did the country revert to the dark ages. The snipers in Washington did more economic damage than the hijackers did. So where they attacking a national landmark, or were they attacking something more? The World Trade Organization(WTO) perhaps, an organization responsible for keeping millions of people in poverty around the world?
What would be a better way to stop the terrorists Jack: lock down the strees at night and give everybody a number, or pull our noses the fuck away from places they don't belong?
And I'm really sorry about your delusions that a number is going to solve the problem of terrorism, or rapists, or illegals.
We already have social security numbers, and credit cards, and foreign national ID numbers. If this wasn't enough to stop the terrorists, then the problem is not located in our "national ID system," it's in the brain surgeons who interpret the data that came up.
The are is so much god-forsaken paperwork and red-tape involved in things like social security and medicare, that there is no way Jose Mexican is stealing from it. That's just whay they tell you when they miss your payment. My advice, start tracking the money. Find out where it comes from and where it goes. We already know that you think it's not you, and while it's easy to point to a foreigner as the source of a problem, it's not going to them either.
And as far as that rapist was concerned, what the heck do you think would have happened. Sex offenders already have to enter a national registry, and introduce themselves in new neighborhoods, something which local police are responsible to enforce. If this system didn't catch them, then how is a NID going to do it?
I'm sorry for my comments earlier Jack. You're not a Fascist, but you are being seriously misguided. Actually, lied to is probably more accurate. This kind of stuff gets me worked up, but I really do hope that you understand why.
Lastly, I really do feel that this needs to be said and heard. So if I don't get a response from you in a few days time regarding this comment, I'm going to put it into a new post and put it on the board.
MoneyG out.
User Reviews
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-05-17 10:41:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OK last word freak, are we done here?
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2005-05-17 09:12:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Swipe your ID card in your ass crack.
Submitted by funk_boy (user info) at 2005-05-17 09:00:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Spain have id cards. They will not stop the terrorists.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-05-17 08:25:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"First and foremost, you're giving up your right to privacy."
-Do you use credit cards, or have a drivers liscence? then guess what you have already given up your right to privacy.
"We need to have free speech. We need to have a free and independent press. We no longer have any of these things. The press became contained years ago. Journalists are checked by the government and now can no longer print whatever they wish. The right to free speech is gone. I guarantee you that you cannot say whatever you wish about the government and it's activities."
-This is complete BS. The media can and does print whatever biased and unsubstantiated bullshit they want. Look at what Newsweek just did. Not only can papers print whatever they want, they also don't have the decency anymore to actually check up on their stories and make sure they are factually correct. just a few months ago a similiar situation happened with Dan Rather making a report with maed up facts. There were no reprecussions for making up a story that was essentially anti-bush, but you think the media doesn't have freedom.
"Ask yourself this: What was the United States doing prior to the attacks. Odds are you don't know, and you'd probably be told not to talk about it if you did, but you know the truth just as much as I do. These people have a lot more to hate us for than just our freedoms."
-Eat shit. Sorry but that is my only response to anyone who is actually trying to justify the actions of the 9/11 terrorists. Try living in a third world, or a muslim country or both.
"Then, why the World Trade Center. Did that cripple America. Did stocks plummet, did the market lose its bottom and did the country revert to the dark ages. The snipers in Washington did more economic damage than the hijackers did. So where they attacking a national landmark, or were they attacking something more?"
-Wrong, the sniper had a miniscule affect on the stockmarket compared to 9/11.
"The are is so much god-forsaken paperwork and red-tape involved in things like social security and medicare, that there is no way Jose Mexican is stealing from it."
-Wrong again.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-05-17 06:50:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"Let's get something straight first. People who oppose this, while they identify themselves as liberals, are being inherently conservative on the issue. The usage of these two words has changed dramatically in the last few years, but please understand, you're the one inviting the government to step into your life and watch your every move. By favoring this, you're therefore favoring a larger more powerful government with drastically increased ability to track individuals and groups. Don't insult liberals; you are one."
Errrr thats true now that I think about it.
Kinda.
Apart from jack being a liberal.
You're still wrong though, america may not be the free land it once was, and ID cards may make it even worse, but thats cause and effect.
ID cards are not inherently a bad thing but the in america the lay of the land may make them one.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-17 03:08:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Okay, I read this.
Much better.
And I will say this - both of you are wrong.
Submitted by BillsSBChamps (user info) at 2005-05-17 02:02:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The snipers in Washington did more economic damage than the hijackers did.
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Are you fucking kidding me?
This is by far the DUMBEST FUCKING THING I HAVE READ, EVAR!!!!!!!!!
Fuck you, you dumb, cocksucking, asshole.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-16 23:12:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
SEACREST OUT!
Submitted by Gendo (user info) at 2005-05-16 22:48:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by YELLOW-MAN (user info) at 2005-05-16 22:47:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I can recall my dad telling me he was reading up (he read the articles back in the early 90's) he told me he was reading about how many people in Afghanistan were Anti-American and they were saying all kinds of negative things about America. It's to more or less support your point on all the information that was received and known about. If there was information about Anti-American antics in Afghanistan in circulation during the early 90's then more than likely the F.B.I or some other organization knew a hell of a lot more than just that.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2005-05-16 22:44:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This is like a figure 8 of shit to infinity.
Submitted by YELLOW-MAN (user info) at 2005-05-16 22:39:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by DeadHorse (user info) at 2005-05-16 22:38:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
*sad trumpet sound*
WAAAAH WAAAAAAH!
Submitted by Sofa_Ace (user info) at 2005-05-16 22:35:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I want the government to put cameras in my house so I can know if there are terrorists living with me.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2005-05-16 22:28:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
1) You're an assclown.
2) "Money G out" makes you more of an assclown.
3) Please quit while you're this far behind. Any further, and you're in front of him again.
4) Take your time to understand what that means.
5) Still need more? OK.
6) Got it figured out yet?
7) No?
8) Seriously?
9) Want me to explain it?
10) You're still an assclown.