Another Day, Another Mass of Stupidity from the Islamic Fanatics (1331 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 0.81 on 64 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by youarsoghey (View user info) at 2005-05-17 11:33:49 EDT
I've just about had it with these extremists. There's something about Quran-thumpers that forces an image of Jerry Falwell to rush forth from my memory. Let's quickly recap the events of the last few days involving Newsweek:
- Newsweek issues report in which it cites a "senior U.S. government official" as saying there were reports of abuse at Guantánamo that included the "flushing of a Quran down the toilet."
- Fundamentalists in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and several other mainly Islamic countries catch wind of the story and erupt in riots. In the effort to quell the violent protests (that included many burnings of American flags), security forces turned violent, and as a result, at least 15 people died and many more were injured.
- Newsweek's "senior U.S. government official" goes back on his insider information and says he's not sure if it was correct. Newsweek publicly admits story might not be true. Next day, they apologized for their report and stated that they did not mean to cause so much harm.
- Fundamentalists in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and several other mainly Islamic countries (and some non-Islamic countries), catch wind of the retraction and apology and erupt into conspiracy theories. According to them, the U.S. government forced Newsweek to retract and apologize.
- The Pentagon (military headquarters of the U.S.) releases the report that was issued about prison abuse allegations. This is the report of which Newsweek wrote. QUOTING NEWSWEEK IN LATER STATEMENT:
....But on Friday, a top Pentagon spokesman told the magazine that a review of the military's investigation concluded "it was never meant to look into charges of Quran desecration." The spokesman also said the Pentagon had looked into other charges by detainees that the Quran had been desecrated and found them to be "not credible." The Pentagon also made available a January 2003 memo setting out rules for "handling and inspecting of detainee Korans" at Guantanamo. It said U.S. personnel must "ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet areas." Whitaker said the magazine's original source later said he could not be sure he had read about the alleged Quran incident in the report Newsweek cited and that it might have been in another document. "Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Quran abuse at Guantanamo Bay," Whitaker said....
That's what happened this week. The vast numbers of America-haters who, among other things, accuse us of suffering from selective hearing, have proven themselves idiots once more. When Newsweek issues a report that condemns the U.S., it is an upstanding magazine that questions the infidels. But when Newsweek retracts that report after citing a poor investigation, it is a tool of the infidels.
Wha? Who? Huh? I read a reader's comments about the story of Newsweek's retraction on AlJazeera.com, a Muslim and Arab news source. This person said the CIA forced Newsweek to retract the story or it would force the editors into prisons.
Who else is sick and fucking tired of everyone outside the U.S. assuming that everyone inside the U.S. is in on one huge conspiracy? We take things like freedom of the press and freedom of speech very seriously here. The fact that Newsweek was able to publish that report in the first place proves that not only does the government have very little say of what goes into the papers, but people can choose to simply not read Newsweek if they publish something wrong. Also since Newsweek came out and admitted their wrongdoing, it sort of shows that, despite their shitty investigation, they are willing to admit when they're wrong (which in itself is kind of proof that they're not in cahoots with the U.S. government).
Has anyone else heard this one before: "Those filthy American scum are waging a racist war against upstanding Arabs."
You can be as racist as you want, because I believe it's everyone's right to be a racist if they so desire, but just don't be a dirty hypocrite. Fundamentalists burn American flags, and everything that they stand for, at the very suggestion that a single American has VIOLATED ORDERS (see Newsweek article quote above) by desecrating a Quran and everything that it stands for. You stupid motherfuckers.
I don't care what Muslims say, to many Americans, burning the flag is just as bad as desecrating a holy book. Oh wait, but nobody has confirmed that flagrant allegation, so you assholes just burned an American flag for the hell of it. Let's all not forget the fact that, despite disobeying an order from a superior officer, any soldier who desecrates a Quran would be violating NO U.S. LAWS, because we haven't let the religious fanatics like Jerry Falwell desecrate our Bible and our Constitution by overrunning the government and combining the two. Well, not as much as in some Middle Eastern countries, at least.
Yes, we are absolutely a country that has many hypocrites who deserve the thousands of haters they have, but these fundamentalists (and many Europeans for that matter) need to stop assuming that because they are not Americans that they cannot be hypocrites.
User Reviews
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2005-06-27 09:10:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It only counts as theocracy if the United States does it.
Submitted by Leroy_Brown (user info) at 2005-06-18 22:13:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You mush brain fucking idiot, how do you know whether or not the govt made Newsweek retract?
The FBI just confirmed everything Newsweek said and worse.
Like you, news weak are complete fucking pussies.
"sorry for reporting the truth, won't happen again".
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2005-06-12 14:26:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by spedmonkey (user info) at 2005-06-12 14:06:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Poor Jan! No more MVA for you!
Submitted by AndyD (user info) at 2005-06-12 09:49:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yay! Burn the flag! W000000000000T!
Submitted by Affinity (user info) at 2005-06-12 09:28:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
auto Anti Islamic Rhetorical Nonsense 0
Submitted by Maddog (user info) at 2005-06-12 09:06:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Fucking Dune Coons
Submitted by sebcharrot (user info) at 2005-06-12 08:50:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Why did bart remove 100k of your hits?
Submitted by the_mysterious_stranger (user info) at 2005-05-18 08:39:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2005-05-18 08:34:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
They burned the flag because they knew it would get the attention of "the elite, the few, the proud."
It's like giving table scraps to a begging dog. Give him some, and he'll keep on working to get your attention until you acknowledge him with the food or he eventually gives up.
Just stop paying attention to them, and they'll go away.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-18 07:42:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I knew you weren't going to like my little rant because of the patriotic overtones. No, I'm not suggesting you're an "America-hater," even though you often hate America..openly. I'm merely suggesting that someone from outside the country can verify the fact that in somewhere so near as Quebec, there are a few people who have a strong feeling of hatred toward this country for good or bad reasons.
By the way, I wouldn't turn violent against anyone who burned the flag in front of me or spat on a national monument or the like, I was only trying to illustrate the idea of personal importance when it comes to symbols and how just because Phallic doesn't believe it's possible for people to be as offended by a flag-burning as by a Quran-flushing, it certainly is, for better or for worse. Since the point he was trying to make was that he could never imagine someone taking any real meaning from a symbol like the flag just doesn't understand the nature of nationalism (which in large doses reminds me a lot of religious fanaticism). And like I said, I wish our policies didn't smear the image the flag is should mean, and often does mean in the U.S. I hate when it's used for political gains and subsequently represents those.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-18 02:38:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There are some America-haters...oh yes, ask Caulaincourt, a few of them exist in the world. """
Are you suggesting I'm an America-hater mr.Buzzword?
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-18 01:19:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
By the way, read those in the order it was posted, bottom to top.
And thanks a lot for keeping me up this late responding to your flagrant misuse of your brain.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-18 01:17:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It is a salient point that, in all their demonstration, I have never seen the desecration of the Bible by extremists. It shows that they do not want a political conflict to (d)evolve into an ideological one.
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Once again, your ignorance weighs heavily. In Islam, the Bible is a sacred text. Under Sharia, burning one would be punishable by death.
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When you start suggesting that your patriotism IS your religion, you make such a radical and absurd judgement (I have never encountered Nationalism to such a gross extent, with the limited exception of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Runnia) that there is NO WONDER the "extremists" are unaware of it.
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Nobody is suggesting patriotism is as important as religion. I simply believe the symbol of the U.S. flag and what it represents to me is more important than the symbol of the Bible and what it means to me.
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When they burn a flag, they protest against the various aspects of the American nation that have impinged upon them or in some way offended them (justifiably or not, I am not going to make that judgement here). When you damage a Holy Book, you attack the very theological fundament of their existence, the basis upon which their entire notion of morality is constucted, and the beliefs upon which they have created and improved themselves throughout their entire life.
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I've already discussed what the flag means to different Americans, simply symbolically. Burning one is a gesture that you are burning those meanings. Considering the burning of a single Quran won't change anything in Islam, I sincerely don't see how the act is any different in principle. One is meant to insult viciously and the other is meant to insult viciously. It achieves its desired goal. Also, most Americans live every day of their lives with the rights given to them by the Constitution of the United States. I say the "rights given to them" because the lines "Freedom of speech," "Freedom of the Press," "Right to peaceably assemble," etc, simply outlines the idea "All men are created equally" with the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." For the people who received these rights, it was important because to them, nobody had ever taken to writing any of that down. You can believe in the fundamentals of a country and not be a nationalist.
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And you would have the gall, the nerve, to suggest that a National flag is of the same significance as a Holy text?
If you changed the American flag to be black, green and yellow, could you still be an American?
but,
If you changed every word in the bible, could you still be Christian?
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Yes.
No, but nobody was changing anything the Quran. The insult was the desecration of a copy of the text. The faith was not affected.
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So in conclusion, get off your high horse. You added nothing interesting to the conversation. You criticized me for making generalizations and then made some of your own, you fabricated things that didn't exist (Changing the Quran vs. burning a flag?), you were completely ignorant of the beliefs and opinions of others, and you made arguments based on utter lack of information (burning Bibles?). Learn how to not be an anal retentive dickhead, then learn how to think outside of your narrow skull, and report back here if you feel like having a discussion based on anything other than you calling me a racist, idiomatic differences, and gross fabrications.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-18 01:17:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Secondly, the sentiment you portray in suggesting that a nationalistic image can have anywhere near the same significance of a religious one is not only ludicrous, but nauseating. EVEN GIVEN THAT IT WHAT YOU SUGGEST IS TRUE, and that some Americans are so insane as to elevate the random, invisible and meaningless notions of "the Nation" up to the level of pure theology, then this is a concept that is, unsurprisingly, unknown to the Afghani's that rioted. And for good reason too.
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Opinions. Opinions drawn from facts, assumptions. More opinions.
These are a few of my favorite things...
Looks like the thought police is out again. What right do you have to tell people what they do and don't hold dear? How dare YOU be so ignorant as to assume that the U.S. flag means nothing but fabric and stitches. The flag is a symbol of what this country stands for. The Quran is a mass-produced book that cannot be changed if someone destroys a single copy. Therefore it is just a smaller copy to represent a whole faith...a symbol, like the Christian cross. Symbols mean different things to different people. To me, an American flag means more than a Bible, Quran, or anything. It is essentially the symbol that means to most to me because I know what it SHOULD stand for in leiu of what it sometimes does.
There are many people who believe in the fundamentals of the U.S. Constitution, despite what lawmakers do today. There are those of us who believe that despite all its foreign faults, this country is one of the many countries in the world today that have chosen give its people the right to live life, enjoy liberty and pursue happiness. My great grandparents escaped famine in Ireland by migrating to the U.S. To them the flag meant nutrition, safety, and a new start. My grandmother escaped Nazi rule the day mostly drafted American soldiers marched through her town. To her, the flag means liberty, justice, and freedom from dictatorship. When I see the flag, I recognize all the sacrifices done to uphold the fundamentals of the Constitution by those who may not have agreed with policy makers' decisions. To me the flag means sacrifice, honor, and inalienable rights that are free from the oppression of policy.
In this country, like in other countries, the flag means a great deal more to many people than a holy book. That said, it also means just as much as a holy book to probably even more people. The simple statement that it means more to me than a holy book proves you to be a self-righteous ignoramus.
The Afghans who burned the flags know that they were insulting Americans, and for that, I don't think it is necessary for them to understand what the flag means to anybody, just that it means something to somebody.
By the way, you made a generalization there when you said the Afghans didn't know about the importance of the flag to Americans. You hypocrite.
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Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-18 01:17:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"'I believe it's everyone's right to be a racist if they so desire'". Well, i see why generalisations serve you so well, considering you try to maintain an ideology so mired in Medieval ignorance that I'm amazed you would have the nerve to suggest it in public. I'm not even going to bother discrediting the (il)logic behind hating an entire group of people solely based upon the geographical location of their conception and the superficial genetic differences that solely pertain to appearance. There are more than enough papers out there already."
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This is the section of the program where we beat you over the head with the U.S. Constitution. Let's look at what I said again. "I believe it's everyone's right to be a racist if they so desire." I believe it is everyone's right to free will, free thought, free judgements, free prejudices. Weeee-oooooo, Weeee-oooooo, Weeeee-oooooo. Uh-oh. Here comes the thought police.
No, you stupid, arrogant fuck, I don't believe racism is right. I believe everyone has the right to think what they want. I will suggest that in public any day of the week, and I would hold rallies to support free speech and thought on the weekends. Wow. Please siphon to me your grand and enlightened knowledge of why racism is idiotic. Please, Phallic, there are those of us in the world whose brains aren't large enough to comprehend these things on our own.
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"I don't care what Muslims say, to many Americans, burning the flag is just as bad as desecrating a holy book."
When you're trying to prove a point, broad generalisations with only tenuous links to reality sometimes seem like a good idea. Unfortunately, they don't stand up to rebuttal very well at all, and this sentence is just ridiculous.
Firstly, what do you mean by Muslims? Anyone who subscribes to the Islamic faith? What about American Muslims? How do they fit into this? Terms like "Muslim" are so diaphanous that to make that classification without distinction has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.
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Again with your unoriginal banter about generalizations. Obviously NOT ALL MUSLIMS THINK THE SAME THING! But I believe many Muslims would agree that Quran desecration is worse than U.S. flag desecration. It is a generalization that would fit to many Christians as well with reference to the Bible. Can I make a disclaimer? To all anal people like Phallic, when I say Muslims, I specifically mean 79.54% of Muslims. Before this moment, I was too stupid and racist to realize that it's possible for any one group of people to have differing opinions.
I really don't know how to say this better, because literally taken, you have a good point, but don't preach to me about generalizations, you arrogant pseudo-intellectual. I said fundamentalist so often in my article that my fucking fingers slipped once and I simple wrote Muslims once. Don't preach to me about how enlightened I am not and how you totally understand that groups of people don't have a singular mindset as if it isn't common sense. Wow, you've made a point about generalizations. To make Phallic feel even better, let's break it down even further, ok? The rioters in Afghanistan did not all riot about the same thing. Muhammed rioted about the desecration of the Quran while Yusef rioted about the flushing of the Quran down the toilet. Then there was Farrah who was rioting because the guards ripped pages out of the Quran before flushing it down the toilet. Yes, we get it. Anyone who read my post and assumed I was talking about all Muslims is either an accountant or has a large stick up their ass that keeps them lifted just far enough off the ground to look down on everyone else's use of colloquial speech.
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Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-18 01:16:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Firstly, Phallic, I have no idea what kind of links you were making within my post. The one guy on Al-Jazeera actually IS a representation of many fundamentalists because he was not the only guy. I saw reports on CNN and MSNBC that tried to gauge the general sentiment in the Afghanistan/Pakistan area where these riots took place. 90% of the people were convinced Newsweek retracted because of U.S. government pressure. Sometimes I have to make generalizations in order to say something without interrupting it constantly by disclaiming, "Mahmoud thought this, Muhammed thought that, Bob thought this, Larry thought that." And when did I say "everyone outside the U.S." in reference to this one person? I believe I specifically stated it was in reference to Islamic fundamentalists (no, Mommy, not all of them, just 90% of them). It's all over the news, buddy. I'm reading it everywhere I go on the internet, without exception, which means a certain amount of morons out there believe the US government has the power to force the press to do something.
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"Also, by 'The vast numbers of America-haters' do you again mean this one person on this one message board?"
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No, by this I mean many of the people who hate America and Americans blindly. If you have been anywhere outside the cave that is your parents' basement, you would know the general fundamentalist Muslim response to the retraction of the Newsweek story. I was using that guy's comment as an EXAMPLE, you anal son of a bitch. There are some America-haters...oh yes, ask Caulaincourt, a few of them exist in the world. These geniuses are so quick to criticize Americans for anything they do that they sort of jumped the gun on this one (even British Parliamentarian Calloway was bringing it up today during a BROAD attack on the U.S. government where he said that it was typical of Americans to treat their prisoners as such). If I really have to prove to you that there are people who hate America, then you are the one who is ignorant. And yes, it is the specific conspiracy theory I'm focusing on. That is the point of the post.
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"I think what you should be focussing more closely upon is the response to the conspiracy idea. That way, you might get a better quantitative idea of the "Vast numbers" you are talking about."
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Whose response? The American response? Outrage, denial. The fundamental Islamic response? The idea of the conspiracy theory. Wow. So deep, man. Your ideas are flawless. I'm focusing on the conspiracy theory, dumbass. Get over it.
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 23:38:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
but I still like yoursoghey
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 23:38:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This guy is more intelligent than me
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Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-05-17 22:53:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Generalisations. Conclusions drawn from analogy. More generalisations.
These are a few of my least favorite things...
Let me make sure I have this correct. You read ONE READER'S comments on an Al-Jazeera message board and this allows you to ascribe the same sentiment to "everyone outside the U.S.". Your one source is a single post on an open forum, and for some reason you believe this to be representative of... well... anything more than one person? That's just... ignorant.
Also, by "The vast numbers of America-haters" do you again mean this one person on this one message board? That does seem to be your only source, and it's not even credible. Conspiracy theorists will give you a theory apropos of ANYTHING, major or not. Are you surprised there's one more theory here? I think what you should be focussing more closely upon is the response to the conspiracy idea. That way, you might get a better quantitative idea of the "Vast numbers" you are talking about.
"I believe it's everyone's right to be a racist if they so desire". Well, i see why generalisations serve you so well, considering you try to maintain an ideology so mired in Medieval ignorance that I'm amazed you would have the nerve to suggest it in public. I'm not even going to bother discrediting the (il)logic behind hating an entire group of people solely based upon the geographical location of their conception and the superficial genetic differences that solely pertain to appearance. There are more than enough papers out there already.
"I don't care what Muslims say, to many Americans, burning the flag is just as bad as desecrating a holy book."
When you're trying to prove a point, broad generalisations with only tenuous links to reality sometimes seem like a good idea. Unfortunately, they don't stand up to rebuttal very well at all, and this sentence is just ridiculous.
Firstly, what do you mean by Muslims? Anyone who subscribes to the Islamic faith? What about American Muslims? How do they fit into this? Terms like "Muslim" are so diaphanous that to make that classification without distinction has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.
Secondly, the sentiment you portray in suggesting that a nationalistic image can have anywhere near the same significance of a religious one is not only ludicrous, but nauseating. EVEN GIVEN THAT IT WHAT YOU SUGGEST IS TRUE, and that some Americans are so insane as to elevate the random, invisible and meaningless notions of "the Nation" up to the level of pure theology, then this is a concept that is, unsurprisingly, unknown to the Afghani's that rioted. And for good reason too.
It is a salient point that, in all their demonstration, I have never seen the desecration of the Bible by extremists. It shows that they do not want a political conflict to (d)evolve into an ideological one. When you start suggesting that your patriotism IS your religion, you make such a radical and absurd judgement (I have never encountered Nationalism to such a gross extent, with the limited exception of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Runnia) that there is NO WONDER the "extremists" are unaware of it. When they burn a flag, they protest against the various aspects of the American nation that have impinged upon them or in some way offended them (justifiably or not, I am not going to make that judgement here). When you damage a Holy Book, you attack the very theological fundament of their existence, the basis upon which their entire notion of morality is constucted, and the beliefs upon which they have created and improved themselves throughout their entire life.
And you would have the gall, the nerve, to suggest that a National flag is of the same significance as a Holy text?
If you changed the American flag to be black, green and yellow, could you still be an American?
but,
If you changed every word in the bible, could you still be Christian?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 21:57:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Why do I always get to be raped in the ass? I want the money shot godamn it!
I need the proteins for my workout.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 19:55:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
mysterious_stranger, that was interesting. I don't know that much about the precise details of Islam, and I would like to hear more accounts before I believe your theory about the sex, but I had not even thought about female domination as a torture tactic. It's wrong, in my opinion (not like I'd give a shit, but..), but it's still pretty interesting.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 19:52:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty, you're a good guy. Sorry for flipping out before. When I don't post for 2 and a half months, I forget how to be a calm internet nerd instead of a raging internet nerd. Also, if you want wacky debates that can go from off-the-wall to really enlightening in a matter of no time, get to know our resident Quebecky, Caulaincourt. He's a big vagina with a piece of cheese stuck up his ass, but I love him because I'm a huge penis with a Big Mac stuck up my ass. He gets raped in the ass by Prime Minister Martin, and I get the money shot from President Bush.
We have an understanding.
Submitted by the_mysterious_stranger (user info) at 2005-05-17 19:40:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
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Submitted by loki (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:47:04 (#)
Ranking: 2
I think there is more to this story that you realize. The Pentagon let that story stand for something like eleven days and only requested the retraction after the riots. I can certainly see why "they" don't trust it. Consider the fact that they are not used to an open and free press, the very idea of it is very alien to them. If a newspaper had published something that the government didn't like, they would have been forced to issue a retraction. To them it looks like what has happened in this case.
Also, while this particular flushing incident has not been proven, there have been plenty of cases where interrogation techniques have exploited the Muslim religion. Take a look at what has not been retracted. For example, there were some detainees who claimed that they had been interrogated by prostitutes. Apparently what was happening was that women were touching them with what was probably some sort of red ink, claiming that it was menstrual blood and then they were sent back to their cells without being able to wash. I don't know, nor do I care a great deal about their backwards ass religion, but to them this was condemning them to hell. There have been other proven allegations such as wrapping them in Israeli flags and telling them that they were on the wrong side of a holy war.
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Apparently, they also rubbed their tits into the detainee's faces. Also, they weren't "prostitutes", they were "interrogation specialists" (read: military personnel). Does anybody else find it ironic that anywhere else in the world you have to pay for that? Seriously, right now I'm looking into working out a deal with the Pentagon that would allow horny males to spend two weeks in Gitmo, in exchange for a little fee, of course. It would still be a helluva lot cheaper than a strip bar, and the money could be used to fund the war against terror...
Meanwhile, Amnesty International is crying human rights abuse, and I'm sitting here contemplating what the fuck is wrong with these people. You know, I don't think that seeing girls naked is what's bugging them. The Quran is far more open about sexuality if than the bible. Only if you are male, of course. Example: If a woman commits adultery, she is stoned to death. If a man commits adultery...his mistress is stoned to death. Lovely, really. (Before you ask: Yes, this law is actually implemented in some islamic countries)
In Europe, many countries have a very high percentage of muslim immigrants. Many of them are fundamentalists. In the netherlands, a popular filmaker critizicing islam as "backwards" was shot dead in the middle of a busy street (Theo van Gogh if you wanna look it up) by one of these fucks. Nonetheless, even the most "holy" of them, even the head honchos that lead the prayer during service, regularly visit brothels.
I think what's bothering them is not the sex itself but the fact that in Gitmo, the women are in control. Since putting a woman above a man is about as high a travesty as one can commit in the eyes of these people, they are upset.
Submitted by MrWillard (user info) at 2005-05-17 18:56:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by simple_catalyst (user info) at 2005-05-17 18:17:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm going to buy a bible, koran, american flag
and use them as fuel to make smores. you in?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-05-17 18:12:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Gid dammit, you've found the truth!
Submitted by The_Fan (user info) at 2005-05-17 17:27:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Anyone that believes in God or Allah is a fucking idiot.
Our lives are actually controlled by a series of gids, led by Zeus, who make things happen by moving around little figurines of us. Like in Clash of the Titans.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-05-17 15:05:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Much better! Religion was origianlly used as a method of explaining life the universe and everything, no argument there of course. It then got hijacked by the powers that be, hence the whole 'I am the king, chosen by God' style of thing. Your quite right about the tool developing something of a life of it's own though.
I see this as more of a manifestation of power and control in and of itself. After all if you base your control on propaganda, you have to keep on using it, it's hard to just stop. You end up with an awful lot of momentum to have to stop. This is why liberals get so worried about extreme policies, easy enough to open the floodgates but not so easy to shut them. Doesn't stop them trying to wade in with their own crazy ideas though.
Another great example of a token being used in this way is immigration by the tories in our last election. They tried to capitalise on insecurity through the use of an emotive subject, traditionally mired in such things as things as fear and misunderstanding. They're main goal was to secure the government, not to actually clean up the problem.
Still I concede one vital point, that those in power ended up believing their own hype. My feeling is, however, that this is not restricted to religion and should not be so readily identified with it. There are bigger monsters to slay.
+2 for a snappy, respectable answer.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 14:47:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, Socrates, since you know everything, can you tell me who is vying for power in East Shitsville, Afghanistan? That's where the riots occurred. People took to the streets after hearing of the Quran being desecrated. Their clerics didn't tell them to reenact the demonstrations of Tiananmen Square, they went on their own. The masses mobilized the masses through common religious beliefs. They were outraged that the word of Allah was sullied by the infidels, the non-believers. The Spanish Inquisition was not done for political gain, it was done to weed out the non-believers. The Crusades were, by definition, about religion. The main basis for the First and subsequent Crusades was to recapture the holy city of Jerusalem. It wasn't to go on a wide swath of battle to convert as many heathens as possible (although they did do that, which is also a religious thing), it was to take back the holiest city in Christianity from the Jews and Muslims.
The basis for the power was given by the popularity of the religion, and often the religion was used by power hungry people. It goes both ways, but the religion came first in this circumstance and its propagators were generally more interested in faith-based oppression than just the regular kind. You clearly have a very poor view of how important religion is to most people if you think politics surpasses it in import.
You seem to be taking it one step too far, or one step not far enough, I can't tell. I suppose you could say that the hunger for power existed before religious worship, but the hunger for food existed before the hunger for power and through food control, cavemen gained power. So let's blame the Iraq war on the human need for nutrition.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-05-17 14:31:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Incidentally, there was no need to fly off the handle and try and drown everyone in bluster and punctuation. A simple, well thought out rebuttal would have been far more dignified.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-05-17 14:03:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You, then, are the stupidest motherfucker on Earth. Every international issue isn't about religion? The issue of Western imperialism in the Middle East is NOT ABOUT RELIGION?? Not even originally??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_crusade Note the part on the right side of the page that lists ALL the Crusades. Fucking idiot.
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Bullshit, it's a flag to wave for the cause, not the cause itself. To attack some figurehead of the real issue is numpty. The crusades where a political action initiated by the church to secure and increase their sphere of influence. It doesn't say in the bible "Go fuck up thy neighbour", the pope said that, all those years ago.
Bizzarely you do actually see what the whole thing is about: Western imperialism in the middle east. That's it. No religious nonsense, just control, power and influence. Religion is just a buzzword to get the masses moving, just like it's always been.
It's akin to attacking Nazi aryean propaganda as opposed to attacking the fundamental flaws in fascism.
A real argument would be whether it's right to liberate those poor bastards from the oppressive regime or how such a thing would be done. You could have made a point about the global political changes and how stability could be achieved, you could even have made a point about how the factions exploit the Islamic faith, a passive religion in it's true form, as a tool for inciting hatred and war. Instead you have made a rather empty rant about how pissed of you are about foreigners burning an American flag. Bravo.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 14:00:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I wanted to heat up this post but I've been gone for a bit more than a week and I already lost the edge to be inflammatory.
Maybe Uber is not for me anymore.
I love yoursoghey's galance and etiquette in debates, he's a swan among men (is that gay?).
P.S. DJMatt still lives with his parents but thinks he has an accute view of our world's complexity.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:51:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fuck that.
I can burn my own flag, but I have to treat the Koran with reverence? Nah.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:31:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
indoninja - there needs to be more ;-)
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:29:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:20:03 (#)
Ranking: 2
I guess I missed the riots caused by fox news and when they sponsored that Koran burning. """
I guess you also missed my point that mass idiocy does occur in United States and elsewhere as well and that we never see americans posting about it. Yoursoghey got it, why can't you?
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Yep there has never been an American making a post on this site that was bashing America or any of its policies, decisions or elected officials. Or a post by Americans making fun of some of the stupid things Americans do.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:20:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
nice topical comeback, you fucking moron. typical liberal. can't make an educated arguement, so has to resort to cheapshots instead (see: Al Franken) """
There is no way to get through your thick skull. It's pointless. You parrot the same bullshit over and over.
Anyone who thinks that fox news is a reliable news source (you said it yourself) is likely to be a waste of time and a raging retard. The first minute I watched it:
Anchor Woman: So what do you think the europeans will do?
Some US official: The europeans are starting to realize there is some progress in Iraq and they will probably participate in our initiative. Of course some will lagger behind such as the french.
Anchor Woman: hahaahah, yeah, no doubt about THAT!
It was the first time in my entire life that I had seen a news anchor display emotion toward an opinion. She didn't just smirk, or nod, she laughed out loud!
It is also the only news source that calls itself fair or neutral that I know of. Others let the viewers determine if it is objective. Since when does a news channel needs to repeat every 5 minutes "you can trust us"?
Plus, let's not forget, you still live with your parents.
I can see you from here, at the dinner table with your family, watching that sensationalist shit and looking up to your loud stupid redneck father rooting for the US like politics is some kind of sport.
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:19:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:16:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't think Foxnews should be lauded as the only America-leaning news service. Almost all news services in America have an American lean (just in nature..Americans tend to want America to succeed or do well for itself), just some of them are blatantly left-wing like the Washington Post. Foxnews is pretty blatantly right-wing, though (I'm not taking a cheap shot at them, but it really, really is). I'm not saying Foxnews or the Washington Post NEVER have different opinions than what they are labeled, just that's what they tend to do.
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i'll see that, and raise you a +2. ;)
and buy you a beer?
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:16:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't think Foxnews should be lauded as the only America-leaning news service. Almost all news services in America have an American lean (just in nature..Americans tend to want America to succeed or do well for itself), just some of them are blatantly left-wing like the Washington Post. Foxnews is pretty blatantly right-wing, though (I'm not taking a cheap shot at them, but it really, really is). I'm not saying Foxnews or the Washington Post NEVER have different opinions than what they are labeled, just that's what they tend to do.
Al-Jazeera tends to post opinion articles that say simply have the headline, "Americans Should Apologize for Quran Desecration." However, it's not as if this country is strictly polarized, there are many programs on these networks that are perfectly legitimate. You just have to dig a little for a good bargain. Shop around.
Submitted by dclive1978 (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:14:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
What i find most interesting about all this is the way the white house has reacted. once newsweek apologized and came out with the "we got our info from a senior gov't official whom we thought was credible but turned out to be a lying douchebag" the white house demands a full retraction. press secretary scott mcclellan says:
"It's puzzling that while Newsweek now acknowledges that they got the facts wrong, they refused to retract the story. I think there's a certain journalistic standard that should be met and in this instance it was not. The report has had serious consequences. People have lost their lives. The image of the United States abroad has been damaged."
hmmmmm apparently we should newsweek to a higher standard than our government.
mcclellan then went on to add something about bravo toning down their programing to keep the rest of the world from thinking "we're all a bunch of pillow-biting queers".
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:04:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:59:33 (#)
Ranking: 2
DJMatt, it has been proved several times that you are a complete retard, from right-leaning people as well.
And you still live with your parents.
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nice topical comeback, you fucking moron. typical liberal. can't make an educated arguement, so has to resort to cheapshots instead (see: Al Franken)
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2005-05-17 13:02:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:10:23 (#)
Ranking: 2
When you invade someone, expect the resistance to use every possible way to beef up their ranks.
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"the resistance" = most major US news organizations. you get one that leans towards america's side, and they are labeled "evil"... of course.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:59:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
DJMatt, it has been proved several times that you are a complete retard, from right-leaning people as well.
And you still live with your parents.
Submitted by DJMattB241 (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:56:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:20:03 (#)
Ranking: 2
I guess I missed the riots caused by fox news and when they sponsored that Koran burning. """
I guess you also missed my point that mass idiocy does occur in United States and elsewhere as well and that we never see americans posting about it. Yoursoghey got it, why can't you?
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are you serious?
i've never seen so many blatant anti-american americans as i have on this site. If ANY site is likely to point out the shortcomings of the USA, you need look no further than Ubersite.
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:41:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:20:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I guess I missed the riots caused by fox news and when they sponsored that Koran burning. """
I guess you also missed my point that mass idiocy does occur in United States and elsewhere as well and that we never see americans posting about it. Yoursoghey got it, why can't you?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:11:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:56:29 (#)
Ranking: 1
Good point. But I doubt we'll ever see you post about similar american mass stupidity such as Fox News. Seriously, I watched it for a few days at my parents' home and I've never seen something so vile and vicious.
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I guess I missed the riots caused by fox news and when they sponsored that Koran burning.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:11:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Here's how we fix it - 10 megatons in downtown Mecca.
America is gonna get blamed for it, so we might as well do it.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:10:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Everyone knows stupid shit happens in America, but it's these other countries that consider themselves so superior just because everyone focuses on us. """
True. But would people focus on you if you weren't marching in Afghanistan or Iraq?
When you invade someone, expect the resistance to use every possible way to beef up their ranks.
It's kind of arrogant to demand people not to be fundamentalists after bombing the shit out of them.
Just a thought.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:08:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"Also, while this particular flushing incident has not been proven, there have been plenty of cases where interrogation techniques have exploited the Muslim religion. Take a look at what has not been retracted. For example, there were some detainees who claimed that they had been interrogated by prostitutes. Apparently what was happening was that women were touching them with what was probably some sort of red ink, claiming that it was menstrual blood and then they were sent back to their cells without being able to wash. I don't know, nor do I care a great deal about their backwards ass religion, but to them this was condemning them to hell. There have been other proven allegations such as wrapping them in Israeli flags and telling them that they were on the wrong side of a holy war."
Well for starters all those techniques cracked me the fuck up, but don't they seem a little outrageous to you? Kind of like the Jack Black Pershing stories? Where the guy dipped bullets in pigs blood and shot muslim terrorists. I really can't bring myself to care about this if it did happen, but I am pretty upset with newsweek and the media in general for the worsening trend of carrying shiutty stories like this with no factual basis.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2005-05-17 12:03:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I have seen pics of about 4 different American flags being burnt at these protests and I am wondering why I didnt think to open a flag shop in Iraq, because, lets be serious, the only reason they are not burning more flags is cause they cant get their hands on them. I am sitting on a gold mine here, anyone interested in helping finance this little endevour?
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:59:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul, I don't watch FoxNews. I won't post about that because it's a tired subject. Everyone knows stupid shit happens in America, but it's these other countries that consider themselves so superior just because everyone focuses on us.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:56:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Good point. But I doubt we'll ever see you post about similar american mass stupidity such as Fox News. Seriously, I watched it for a few days at my parents' home and I've never seen something so vile and vicious.
Submitted by MickGinny (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:49:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Those idiots were acting out as if it was the original book written in camel feces that was flushed down the toilet.
There are idiotic zealots worldwide. Im sure fundies would act out similarly here in America if they heard about a copy of Gideon's bible being used for shitpaper in some sleazy motel somewhere.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:48:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"It's as if you're genuinely unaware that this whole situation is, and never has been, about religion. It's about politics, human suffering and political power mongering. Just like every international issue."
You, then, are the stupidest motherfucker on Earth. Every international issue isn't about religion? The issue of Western imperialism in the Middle East is NOT ABOUT RELIGION?? Not even originally??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_crusade Note the part on the right side of the page that lists ALL the Crusades. Fucking idiot.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:47:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think there is more to this story that you realize. The Pentagon let that story stand for something like eleven days and only requested the retraction after the riots. I can certainly see why "they" don't trust it. Consider the fact that they are not used to an open and free press, the very idea of it is very alien to them. If a newspaper had published something that the government didn't like, they would have been forced to issue a retraction. To them it looks like what has happened in this case.
Also, while this particular flushing incident has not been proven, there have been plenty of cases where interrogation techniques have exploited the Muslim religion. Take a look at what has not been retracted. For example, there were some detainees who claimed that they had been interrogated by prostitutes. Apparently what was happening was that women were touching them with what was probably some sort of red ink, claiming that it was menstrual blood and then they were sent back to their cells without being able to wash. I don't know, nor do I care a great deal about their backwards ass religion, but to them this was condemning them to hell. There have been other proven allegations such as wrapping them in Israeli flags and telling them that they were on the wrong side of a holy war.
I have no idea why this particular event would be such a flash point - odd really, but then like I said, I don't know or care a great deal about their religion. There are probably a few Christians in this country who would riot if they heard that someone in prison was flushing a Bible, but who knows.
My favorite part was how the Bush administration accused NewsWeek of undermining the credibility of the United States. What credibility is that? I'm also touched by their concern that this caused the deaths of 15 innocent people, because Allah knows the Bush administration certainly has not caused the deaths of any innocent people.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:45:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Much as I look down on religious types, I don't like your attitude. It's as if you're genuinely unaware that this whole situation is, and never has been, about religion. It's about politics, human suffering and political power mongering. Just like every international issue.
Much as I hate to adopt a patronising tone and risk insulting your intelligence, it's quite clear that this is merely symptomatic of the overall conflict and that the details of who did what to whom are irrelevant. People will make issues out of anything when they're pissed off.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:44:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh shut up, Goose. I was referring to our Christians, relax.
Anyone watching British Parliamentarian Galloway in front of the Senate committee? He's ripping them in half. It's hilarious to see this Scottish guy stomp Congressional ass.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:40:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No Comment
Submitted by the_mysterious_stranger (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:40:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
A-men
Submitted by goose (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:39:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
I'm sorry - "Our" bible?
Submitted by Sassmasterr (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:38:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Sassmasterr (user info) at 2005-05-17 09:12:08 (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 'cause it's my berfday!
I'm 22 bitch!
http://www.ubersite.com/m/66440
Submitted by JMG114 (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:36:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The U.S. media is way out of control. See: Fox News.
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2005-05-17 11:35:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hey, and good to be back, even if it's just for one post. I haven't been paying much attention to the site recently, so what's going on with UberMadness III? Who hit the brakes on that one?
Image credit goes to Ahmad Masood at Reuters.