Vietnam: The Last Real War (833 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: -0.45 on 46 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by JACK0173 (View user info) at 2005-05-20 02:29:14 EDT
Ever since humans have been on this earth they have been fighting each other. As technology advanced and humans became more organised the fighting escalated from battles of small consequence (as in the monkey/primitive human fight at the start of 2001: A Space Odyssey) to full scale wars. Maybe it has something to do with our social nature, but I digress.
Slowly but surely, warfare has been evolving. In the Heroic Age, powerful warriors (eg Achilles, Agamemnon, Odysseus etc) duelled each other, whilst supported by a poorly armed rabble of peasants.
As humanity moved into the Iron Age it became possible to equip whole armies. War became (relatively) mobile as cavalry was introduced to the field. Battles were fought on land and sea.
With the advent of black-powder weaponry war was forced to change. The elaborate suits of armour and shields that had protected warriors from arrows were useless against lead shot. Of course, generals being stubborn as they are didn't change their tactics for a few hundred years after this. Tactics were still limited to marching your army straight into that of the enemy and whoever is left at the end wins.
Recently warfare reached its peak with WWI and WWII. World War I was the first modern war (in this war alone more people died than had died in all the wars in Europe in the past 500 years). World War II saw the first widespread use of modern technology on the battlefield.
Then the television camera was introduced onto the battlefield at Vietnam. The death knell had been sounded on modern warfare.
In Vietnam the generals and soldiers were free to do pretty much as they liked. It was a real war. However, the fact that the public at home could see what was going on, combined with the fact that the war was a disaster for America, conspired to end war for good.
After that America (one of the few countries with a real army, and just about the only country that isn't afraid to use it) has become afraid of war. Look at Somalia, 18 (I think) Americans were killed and Clinton pulled out. The First Gulf War, was that even a war? All they did was go over there, launch a few missiles, stir up some shit, then go home. And now Iraq.
Iraq. Bush has totally fucked this up. Because America is afraid of a full scale war this war will never be won. If they had done it properly they would have won already. The proper thing to do would have been to use full force to bomb the shit out of everything that even looked like an enemy then send in the troops to mop up. W
What Bush did was bomb a couple of things then declare the war over. Time for peacekeeping.
And what's happening? More Americans have died since the "war" ended. Hostages, carbombs etc, this kind of shit is Police work, not Army work. The Army is designed for full scale battles, not Police Ops. I bet there's a lot of people in the Pentagon wishing they had a President with some balls, "People are saying Iraq's our new Vietnam, so why can't we lay Napalm over everything?"
Even from a soldier's point of view war is no longer war. There are strict rules over who you can and can't shoot, and you get court martialled for messing this one up. You can't loot stuff anymore. What the fuck? War is about looting stuff. That's the payoff for all the danger and horror, stealing cool shit off the enemy. My Grandfather has loads of cool stuff he got from the Germans and Japanese and what's wrong with that? And anyway, Bush got to keep Saddam's pistol, why didn't the guys who posted a bunch of gold-plated AK-47's back home get to keep those? Fucking Bush, hypocritical prick.
User Reviews
Submitted by kai070169 (user info) at 2005-06-22 02:04:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
KILL!
Submitted by Fish3000 (user info) at 2005-06-08 14:05:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
-I have to second the notion that the Civil War was the first modern war. If it hasn't been mentioned before...gunboats, speaking from a technological point of view. Tactically, however, it would be correct that WW1 was the first modern war because new weaponery meant that people couldn't just charge anymore. I guess it's just opinion.
-Oh, Bush has balls-not enough balls to do what you think he should be doing, and, now that I think about it, what I think he should be doing-but enough balls to even go to war in Iraq on faulty evidence. You know how many people are pissed at that, not to mention countless other things that should have shouted out when he saw the bill THIS'LL PISS PEOPLE OFF!!! Ergo, I don't like Bush, but I credit him for his undeniable scrotal magnitude.
-(This bullet isn't factchecked, and I'm a little sketchy on current affairs, so if I'm wrong somewhere, which I probably am, help'd be appreciated) Technically, Operation Iraqi Freedom isn't a war. As far as I remember, congress didn't allow a war in Iraq, it was a motion presented by the executive branch alone. We did go to war with Afghanistan, and we bombed the living fuck out of them. We didn't in Iraq, I guess, because the rules of a war allowed by Congress didn't apply. We went there basically to follow the Bush Doctrine: if you're a terrorist, if you're harboring a terrorist, we'll fuck you up. That's why we'll be in Iran here pretty soon.
Good points.
Submitted by Sassmasterr (user info) at 2005-06-08 13:27:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"indeed"
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-06-08 11:00:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by PokeyPecker (user info) at 2005-06-08 10:33:29 (#)
Ranking: -1
The American Civil War was the first "modern" war, employing "modern" technology. That was called for the invention and/or uses of such gems as the Machine Gun, Submarines, Hot Air Ballons, Land minds, and so forth.
Also, Matthew Brady photographed the shit out of it, the first time that had been done in a war. By the time television crews rolled into vietnam, people had already been sick of war to the bone forever.
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Yes all these things were first used in the American Civil War but as everyone knows they weren't really used to any practical extent until WWI.
And, maybe so but, Vietnam was the first war that was in people's lounge rooms AS IT HAPPENED.
Fuckwit.
How much detail do you have to include to make people happy?
Submitted by PokeyPecker (user info) at 2005-06-08 10:33:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
The American Civil War was the first "modern" war, employing "modern" technology. That was called for the invention and/or uses of such gems as the Machine Gun, Submarines, Hot Air Ballons, Land minds, and so forth.
Also, Matthew Brady photographed the shit out of it, the first time that had been done in a war. By the time television crews rolled into vietnam, people had already been sick of war to the bone forever.
War will never end. Until we're all dead. Which, hopefully, won't be too much longer. Fucking people.
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-06-08 10:09:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well Thorpe my boy, I'm glad we got that sorted out.
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-06-08 10:03:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Maybe if I had thought about it I would have titled this post, "Vietnam: The Last Time America Actually Waged a War" but I don't give a shit as much as some of you seem to.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-06-08 10:03:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Heh - it was JonnyX arguing the point. Whatever.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-06-08 10:00:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If you think that, then why'd you bother arguing the point?
COntinuing to +2 Williamson's stuff now.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-06-08 09:59:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/
And I know for a fact that that's just a few.
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-06-08 09:59:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Look Thorpe, the point of this post was that countries, for example USA, are afraid to fight a real war and as a consequence are getting lots of their soldiers killed when a carpet bombing and all out assault would have finished the job almost before it began.
I am aware there are all kinds of conflicts throughout the world but my post operates in an exclusive vaccuum that only deals the one thing I wanted it to deal with.
Go back to +2ing Williamson's communist shit.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2005-06-08 09:58:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
You are forgetting the war on drugs.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-06-08 09:52:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-06-08 09:37:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
"Don't believe me?
Ask George Bush.
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There are hundreds of wars going on right now, dipshit. "
Actually, that's the point, there aren't. And OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM IS NOT A WAR.
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I'll let you think what you want about the latter, because I sort of agree if we're talking technicalities.
But what makes you think there are no wars going on right now? A quick google search should give you a couple of hundred.
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-06-08 09:37:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Don't believe me?
Ask George Bush.
-------------------------
There are hundreds of wars going on right now, dipshit. "
Actually, that's the point, there aren't. And OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM IS NOT A WAR.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-27 04:48:13 (#)
Ranking: -2
what a dipshit, this guy.
Hey, you're the cocksucker who +2'ed this piece of shit without reading it, dipshit, or did you forget that? Well go look, it's the second review.
ZING!
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-27 04:48:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
what a dipshit, this guy.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-05-27 04:30:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-05-20 15:36:22 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:09:44 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:02:43 (#)
Ranking: -2
What, wars aren't real unless they involve the US?
____
Why yes, didn't you get the memo?
Look at the last non-US war, the Falklands War. Now, that was a good war, I will grant you that, but no Americans.
WE INVENTED MODERN WARFARE, JUST LIKE WE INVENTED THE INTARWEB, YOUSE POLESMOKERS!!!!111
In the future, all wars will be 'U.S.A. versus _________(fill in your country's name here)'
Don't believe me?
Ask George Bush.
-------------------------
There are hundreds of wars going on right now, dipshit.
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-05-21 01:15:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No good.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-05-21 01:04:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Principal Skinner: "Your child's behavior appalls me. Not just as a principal, but as a veteran of America's only losing war."
Homer: "To date."
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-05-21 00:35:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ok idiots I'm here to sort a few things out.
Zakalwe:
"First of all, Agamemnon, Achilles and Odysseus were fictional characters, dipshit. It's not even confirmed that Troy was a real place."
Gee thanks dickhead, I used them as examples to illustrate what I what I was talking about, for people who otherwise might not know. You think that I would actually believe there was a real man who was invincible except for his heel? Wanker.
"Your approach to Iraq (ie. level it) is total bullshit. You seem to forget this was supposedly a war of "liberation" not naked aggression."
Well, it didn't start this way, it started over WMD's, liberation jut became the excuse for starting it. And, that's my point exactly fuckwit: A war of liberation is NOT A REAL WAR.
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Avals:
"The problem with modern warfare isn't that people are afraid to bomb shit, it's that modern warfare is:
a) predominantly focused on urban combat and warfare in urbanized environments, and
b) marked by one or both sides utilizing guerilla tactics either during or after the war.
See: The United States in Iraq and Vietnam, etc.."
Guerrilla takes make for legitmate warfare, as you may have noticed the title of this was "Vietnam: The Last Real War". The difference between Iraq and Vietnam was in Vietnam full force was used, no namby-pambying around doing police work. Warfare can take place in urban environments too, by the way (see: Stalingrad)
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I admit that I didn't talk about Afghanistan/Russia because 1. this was from a US point of view and 2. It was pretty much the same as Vietnam (except in Afghanistan, and with the other major world power of that time getting beaten)
As for doing research, fuck that. This was just an opinion based on current events and vaguely remembered history lessons. Sure I could have researched and written a fan-fucking-tastic essay, but why? Few on this site would understand it anyway, if anyone actually read it. And I'm not prepaed to give a fuck about this site enough to make my essay perfect just for you lot.
Come to think of it this response is getting to essay kind of length.
Submitted by Didier (user info) at 2005-05-20 16:37:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This multiplied my general culture by about 1/7.
Thanks a million.
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-05-20 16:29:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I've thought about it some more.
You missed the Soviet invasion of Aghanistan - surely an extremely important conflict to current geopolitics. (hint: it happened in the '80s, and you can pretty much draw a line from it to Hekmatyar, the Taliban, Mullah Omar and bin Laden himself. Plus it marked a seminal Soviet defeat)
The wars and border skirmishes between India and Pakistan. Can't ignore them.
The ever simmering N/S Korea crisis. The Demilitarised Zone isn't going to be there forever.
Kosovo.
Sierra Leone.
Congo (multiple).
Darfur (strictly to be considered a war? I don't know)
So really, your post was just ignorant.
Submitted by strider (user info) at 2005-05-20 16:14:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
wow, ignorant much? and the people below who +2'd, did you even read it? or did you just +2 because you thought it was some other jack? sheesh!
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-05-20 15:58:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Wow, this post was just full of shit.
First of all, Agamemnon, Achilles and Odysseus were fictional characters, dipshit. It's not even confirmed that Troy was a real place.
Your approach to Iraq (ie. level it) is total bullshit. You seem to forget this was supposedly a war of "liberation" not naked aggression.
As for other major wars, what about Iran - Iraq (1980-88), the Yugoslavian break-up, the Korean war, and no doubt many others you have neglected (eg. shitloads of African tribal warfare). Even Gulf War I fails to get a mention.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-05-20 15:36:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:09:44 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:02:43 (#)
Ranking: -2
What, wars aren't real unless they involve the US?
____
Why yes, didn't you get the memo?
Look at the last non-US war, the Falklands War. Now, that was a good war, I will grant you that, but no Americans.
WE INVENTED MODERN WARFARE, JUST LIKE WE INVENTED THE INTARWEB, YOUSE POLESMOKERS!!!!111
In the future, all wars will be 'U.S.A. versus _________(fill in your country's name here)'
Don't believe me?
Ask George Bush.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:30:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:14:41 (#)
Ranking: -2
You need to do more research. Your figures are off and you ommited some HUGE conflicts.
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:29:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Try actually doing some research, idiot.
Anyone can just spew shit off the top of their head.
Unfortunately, your head must be clogged with booze and LSD.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:14:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You need to do more research. Your figures are off and you ommited some HUGE conflicts.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:09:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:02:43 (#)
Ranking: -2
What, wars aren't real unless they involve the US?
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-05-20 09:02:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What wars aren't real unless they involve the US?
Submitted by Avals (user info) at 2005-05-20 07:57:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The problem with modern warfare isn't that people are afraid to bomb shit, it's that modern warfare is:
a) predominantly focused on urban combat and warfare in urbanized environments, and
b) marked by one or both sides utilizing guerilla tactics either during or after the war.
See: The United States in Iraq and Vietnam, etc...
You're not very good at this at all, are you?
Submitted by cleanfornow (user info) at 2005-05-20 07:45:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
<do you mean one of the few countries with a real army or happy triggers, who shoot their own troops? oh and bomb them, cant forget that one!>
Williams, you sure are smart for a complete and utter dumbass.
Jack, I don't know if it was intentional. But, very clever the way you ensured a positive rating by insulting Bush while presenting a radical right wing point of view that would otherwise get -2'd to death.
Submitted by Jungle_Jimanee (user info) at 2005-05-20 06:05:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Enjoyed.
Submitted by Williams_2004 (user info) at 2005-05-20 04:12:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I like you, have a +2
But this comment you posted "one of the few countries with a real army, and just about the only country that isn't afraid to use it", do you mean one of the few countries with a real army or happy triggers, who shoot their own troops? oh and bomb them, cant forget that one!
Good post anyway!
Submitted by Rasta (user info) at 2005-05-20 03:51:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You got my vote. War should be devastating and quick. I like glass parking lots on foreign countries. Make a few parking lots and no one will mess with us anymore. yeah I am A Texan!
And don't worry, I don't come back to see ya'll sniping at each others responses.
Flame on!!!
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-05-20 03:25:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think all it does is help out with the aesthetics of my ID card, actually.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-20 03:20:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
University ID code.
I'm hacking your records as we speak.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2005-05-20 03:08:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I think it's fair to say you know what your moms ass tastes like.
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-05-20 03:05:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sorry guys, if I had have known about the existence of this other jack I wouldn't have chosen this name.
By the way, I got this name because I couldn't think of a good pseudonym so I used my University ID code.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2005-05-20 03:01:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:45:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
I thought you were jack11058
********************************
Yep......
Done that myself twice, recently.
Submitted by jack0173 (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:57:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Holy shit, I didn't even know there was another jack on this site. I searched for that one and guess what I found, a refernce to monkeys flinging bones at a black monolith ....... creepy.
Oh well, you got my hopes up for a second ther rad, although I'm my favourite user still, and that's all that matters.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:45:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I thought you were jack11058
My bad.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:42:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Which obviously mine already has.
SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:41:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay you got me again, replace 'cock' with 'coke' as in cocaine.
As in the powder that makes your brain and ass explode.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:41:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Obviously I meant to type 'flavours'.
This hundred dollar bill I'm using to snort cock has somehow melded into my hand.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:40:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Have I told you that you are one of my favorite users here?
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2005-05-20 02:40:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm high on 37 different falvours of death.