Poker Forum. Short Stack Torture..... (640 hits)
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Submitted by SiskelandFatboy (View user info) at 2005-08-15 16:25:58 EDT
Anyone who has played in No Limit Hold 'em Tournaments has been on the short stack, and there are few things in life that are worse than this mental drain, this relentless pressure, and this type of desperation. "God, let me find something" you beg as you peel back your cards, looking for a small pair, two face cards, fuck, an Ace? Anything..... And you see it, the 7-8 suited, the hand you would play in a second if you had any chips. You muck your cards, disgusted.
Don't be so quick to hate the poker Gods for tempting and taunting you. They may have just given you the life line you needed and you chose to muck it........
Let's back up, what is considered a "short stack"?
Many people have different opinions, but for the sake of argument let's define the short stack as 10 to 12 times the big blind. If the blinds are 1,000/2,000 then a short stack would be 20 to 24 thousand. At this level, you can still force someone to pick up a descent to strong hand to play against you, if you move in, and with the dead money (3,000 in blinds plus the antes), the pot then becomes valuable with no action.
Example: You're sitting in a middle position on the short stack, and everyone folds to you. Looking down you find A-T and move in. The 3-4 players behind you are put in an awkward position because even if they find A-J, a hand that dominates you, it isn't really something they want to commit 20,000 chips with, only to have the button or the one of the blinds to wake up to a monster hand.
Authors note: This is a futile thought process when playing online or with poor players. A-J is the same as AA when playing online or with people who frequent the 3-6 or 5-10 tables. That forum is simple, make the hand, and bet the hand.
Now, provided the blinds don't wake up to a huge hand or a small pair (which isn't so bad at 50/50), you drag the pot and now sit at 24-25 thousand. You have just picked up one free lap or 8-9 extra deals/chances to find a big hand.
That seems elementary and it is, for the most part with hands like A-T or better. The one thing that is consistent when playing the short stack is that you are simply going to have to gamble. Accept this fact but do it wisely.
Going back to our opening, mucking the life line known as 7-8s, I have learned that this hand is more valuable when you are desperately searching for a hand to move in with than something like K-J, Q-J or a dry Ace (A-6, A-7 etc.). Why? Well in the event you get called when you move in with this type of hand, you are statistically in better shape than with the hands just mentioned. You are still an underdog, but not as big.
Let's say you look down and put your 24,000 in from a middle position because it is "the best hand I have seen in an hour" and the button or one of the blinds calls. The hands they would flip up in such a situation would be along the lines of A-Q, A-K, for the most part. Regardless, you can feel pretty certain they don't have a 7 or an 8 in their hand, which gives you LIVE CARDS. Sure, you are an underdog to A-K or A-Q, but only about a 3-2 underdog. Comparing this to moving all in with K-Q or K-J and facing the same two hands, A-K or A-Q, as a 3 ½ -1 underdog, you can see the mathematical advantage. It is much better to take your chances as a 3-2 underdog than as a 3 ½ -1 dog. When you factor in the chances you won't be called, this play will work over 60% of the time. What else can you ask for if you are on the short stack?
The only cause for concern in this instance is that you get called by a bigger pair, 88, 99 or better. Well, then you're fucked, you need religion real quick. You took your shot with the odds against a big pair behind you. Two big cards are much more likely than 88 or higher.
A few things to remember....
1) You can't expect to be the favorite every time you move all in on the short stack. Go ahead and be willing to gamble on the principle of live cards. Don't play scared, sometimes you have to be willing to lose if you hope to win.
2) You must not let your stack dwindle too far down. You cannot allow players to become "pot committed" just by being in the big blind or limping in. Know the pot odds, know whether or not a player is "pot stuck" before you decide to gamble on the 7-8s or something. It takes away the advantage (60% winning percentage) because not being called is no longer a possibility.
3) The only play you don't have when short stacked is calling. You have to move in or fold. That should become first and foremost in your short stack strategy. Once you call, you are stuck, pot committed, you might as well move all in and see if they want to play for all of 'em. Incidentally, after showing the table that you are moving in when you want to play, the players ahead of you will muck hands they normally would play because you are behind them and willing to move in. This is really valuable when trying to survive.
User Reviews
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2006-05-26 03:11:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/88405
Submitted by BingBongBing (user info) at 2006-01-26 14:41:35 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
you just dont get it......do you?
Submitted by CanucksFan (user info) at 2005-09-22 01:44:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
And none of this applies to anything at most poker home game tables.
Good read nonetheless
Submitted by Quale (user info) at 2005-08-16 10:52:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
its strange, but also when short stacked, the desire to stay in is a lot more apparent. therefore you start to concentrate that little bit more and end up playing some fantastic hands. i find, when you're chip leader, the tendency to be a bit more relaxed and complacent as you can coast to the final table. being short stacked keeps you on edge to play the best game you can.
and you're definitely right about the only options available being all-in and fold. even if you do get the bullets, its probably not a good idea to slowplay it, just in case there's a rainbow flop.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2005-08-15 21:16:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sideshow is a goddamn idiot. Nice story, Amarillo.
And I agree with everything our author says here, except point # 3...where you CAN simply call with crap in either one of the blinds, shortstacked, and hope to hit the flop ...then move in.
But maybe you made that distinction...I don't know. I'm buzzed.
Love the theory - which I also subscribe to - that my suited connectors are a better hand to move all in in early position or even in middle position, than two face cards...or than A-6 or some other A and average kicker.
You're beat by the caller, at least pre-flop, generally, in this case.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-08-15 19:59:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
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Submitted by sideshow (user info) at 2005-08-15 17:08:18 (#)
Ranking: 1
I have won a hand with a 4-2 off suited. My opponents had a pair of aces, and a pair of queens, respectively. I merely bet big when I saw the ace, and again when the Q was turned. I bluffed them out, and they would've easily kicked my ass. It all depends on the timing of the bets, and how well your opponents can read you, they thought I was serious.
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Yeh i remember when i had 7,2o and Phil Hellmuth (my buddy) flopped the Royal flush. I just bet big and he was outta there!
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2005-08-15 19:42:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I <3 Polka
Submitted by Professional_Peon (user info) at 2005-08-15 18:49:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
How to win at poker ----> http://www.ubersite.com/m/73230
Submitted by Obi-wan (user info) at 2005-08-15 18:39:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by sideshow (user info) at 2005-08-15 17:08:18 (#)
Ranking: 1
I have won a hand with a 4-2 off suited. My opponents had a pair of aces, and a pair of queens, respectively. I merely bet big when I saw the ace, and again when the Q was turned. I bluffed them out, and they would've easily kicked my ass. It all depends on the timing of the bets, and how well your opponents can read you, they thought I was serious.
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Bullshit
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2005-08-15 18:06:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
nitty, playing 7-8 depends more on who youre playing against and your position at the table more than how many people are in your table.
conservative to the left
crazy to the right
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2005-08-15 18:05:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
i love playing short stack.
because i never loose my focus and go all in with a bad hand
while when i have a lot of chips i tend to play the suited connectors to see the flop.
and with an all in, you have to be confident that you are are the favorite or else you should not go all in unless you are down to nothing and see a King or Ace.
also, being short stacked is actually 10x or less the big blind.
Submitted by w_t_a_y_s_t_r_m (user info) at 2005-08-15 17:14:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Typically I play anything with a queen. Not sure why.
Submitted by w_t_a_y_s_t_r_m (user info) at 2005-08-15 17:13:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
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Submitted by Professional_Peon (user info) at 2005-08-15 16:54:09 (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm still searching for people to play Strip Hold'em.
Guess it's not as popular.
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Did you miss my hand up???
Submitted by spamtrap50 (user info) at 2005-08-15 17:12:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Nice commentary
Submitted by sideshow (user info) at 2005-08-15 17:08:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have won a hand with a 4-2 off suited. My opponents had a pair of aces, and a pair of queens, respectively. I merely bet big when I saw the ace, and again when the Q was turned. I bluffed them out, and they would've easily kicked my ass. It all depends on the timing of the bets, and how well your opponents can read you, they thought I was serious.
Submitted by Professional_Peon (user info) at 2005-08-15 16:54:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm still searching for people to play Strip Hold'em.
Guess it's not as popular.
Submitted by SiskelandFatboy (user info) at 2005-08-15 16:51:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You have to gamble when you are on the short stack, Nitty. Can't wait for A-K when you have less than 10 big blinds.
And I love suited connectors, they win huge pots for minimal investments or you can muck with little thought or worry after the flop.
Submitted by a_reader (user info) at 2005-08-15 16:48:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Good post.... it just needed more peener jokes.
Submitted by nitty34 (user info) at 2005-08-15 16:38:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Man, I really want to -2 this just because you said you usually play suited 7-8
That's living on the edge, Tobes, and it's gonna hurt you a lot more than it helps you in the long run.
NOTE: DEPENDS on number of heads at the table. 3 handed, maybe a play. Any more = nope.