Climate change (724 hits)
Category: Science & EnvironmentalRating: 0.75 on 37 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by DC'awesome'Woody (View user info) at 2005-09-02 14:12:01 EDT
A while ago when I was discussing the origin of american football on this site, someone used the phrase 'I know more about this than you', Im pretty sure he was just bullshitting to try and make me change my mind becaus Im still 99% certain that he was wrong.
Nevertheless I am going to state here that I know more about this than the majority of people on uber.
Im not trying to be arrogant, its just that people know about different things, and this topic is one that I am highly knowledgeable on.
I fear that this may take on a condesending tone, but I am aiming this at everyone on uber which means I have to cater for the lowest common denominator.
Do not worry if you don't know what a denominator is, is isn't important.
Anyway.
Climate change is an entirely natural phenomenon, global warming and cooling have been slowly happening since the earth formed (5.4 billion yrs ago I think, something like that).
When the vikings discovered greenland, they colonised the coast and had farms there. Nowadays greenland isn't so green and the farms are gone, its a lot colder these days, global cooling.
Currently the climate is warming, deserts are expanding, glaciers and polar ice caps are melting, the sea level is rising, and yes there are more and worse hurricanes/typhoons or whatever you want to call them.
Now lets take two examples, desertification in africa and hurricanes in southern USA.
Hurricanes have been geting quite bad over the last few years, there have been many deaths and some people may be thinking that its time to move inland. Then an entire city that hasn't even been hit for almost 50 years is completely devastated over one weekend.
That is the problem, the human effect. Human activity is having an affect on climate change, the problem is that we have no idea how much.
In all seriousness it could be that the earth should still naturally be cooling and our activities are completely overriding nature and heating things up.
On the other hand, we could be simply be increasing a natural warming rate by as little as 20%.
It is very hard to be specific, is isn't as if we have a load of other planets we can run experiments on, but if you really want a figure to work with I personally would say that the earth is naturally warming, but due to human influence it is going at about 3 times the normal rate.
That is the problem, however much difference you thing our species is having, it is agreed that things are going a bit faster than we would like.
No doubt, you all heard about the troubles in Sudan recently, specifically in Darfur.
Now if I were to blame the fighting in the region on global warming I'd be talking out of my arse, what it all boils down too is the repurcussians of the last Islamic Jihad, or at least the last Jihad that all of Islam signed up to, when arabic muslims rose up and conquered northen arfica (and southern spain).
But, that was a long time ago, there has been fighting in the area for a hell of a long time and aggravated desertification is what set off a chain of events resulting in the humanitarian crisis that suddenly reminded the western world that Darfur even existed.
It is a situaion repeated around the world, wherever there is desert it is expanding too fast for humans to naturally migrate to more inhabitable areas.
The Viking settlement in Greenland is still there, making Denmark a much larger country that it should be. The vikings crops did not suddenly peter out over a decade, it was a slow natural process giving them time to adjust, not starve to death, and go on to discover and settle the American continent 1000 years before Columbus ran into the carribean.
So what is going to happen?
Well the world is not going to end.
Depending on how much we reduce our impact the rate of warming should return to something nearer natural levels, and as a result the number of related deaths will fall.
The human race will not be even nearly destroyed by climate change, but people will die as a result of it.
In 2003 a unprecedented heatwave swept across France, on the one hand Cindy wouldnt have noticed a difference between her recent trip , and a theoretical trip she could have made five years ago.
On the other hand 15,000 people died.
On a third hand, if you have one, they were only French, who cares.
If you're american and are wondering why you're not a viking right now, its because after 50 years they packed up shop (or ship in this case) and left, due to the exteremely unfriendly behaviour of the local native american tribe, and scaring away vikings is a pretty impressive feat.
User Reviews
Submitted by belowground (user info) at 2006-01-29 13:45:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with what you are saying, and global warming does seem to be a slowly encroaching problem at the very least.
However, I find myself very disinterested with the whole issue. As long as it doesen't directly affect me or any of my immediate descendants, I couldn't give a care less what happens to the planet.
FYI: I am a bad person.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-01-29 13:08:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Agreed. We don't know for sure. My big complaint is that every
politician or World leader who sticks his nose into the fray does
it for publicity or to make money.
There is a ton of money to be made by providing pollution
control devices. Does Mankind as a whole profit, or just
a few already wealthy businessmen?
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-01-29 12:59:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Volcanic activity causes the global temperature to fall.
Definately I am a relative expert on geological matters, I know that it was put around that one big volcano makes more GHG than man has in the last century, but that is what is technically known as bullshit.
Also beware any studies that focus purely on methane and be aware that there is dispute over how much GHG man produces per year, let alone how much 'nature' contributes.
That is the general gist of this post, its hard to tell and basically we don't know, we're definately having at least a little effect and it definately isn't anything you need to worry about unless you live by a desert or the sea, but where it is between those two is anybodys guess.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-01-29 12:49:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
CFCs are mostly produced by seawater evaporation and cow farts.
Also by volcanic action. 99.9% of the shit that causes
climate change comes from a source other than man.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-01-29 12:45:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
No offense Bubba but, how the fuck can you just know that?
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-01-29 12:36:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Man has vitually no effect on climate change.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-03 08:24:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My graphs were actually trying to show that the sea level is actually lower now than 150 years ago.
Of course that doesn't help areas like northeast europe where the land is actually sinking.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-09-03 05:43:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
im not even paying attention, Im just baiting you
now go rate my post motherfucker
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-09-03 05:42:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
<not gonna read it>
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-09-03 05:41:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
No, fuck that, my point is implied. It's simple enough. What the hell use is 4% economic growth in the short term if our primary industries start collapsing?
The economy is a means, not an end.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-09-03 05:39:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I figured my point was implied, Rad.
<typing>
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-09-03 05:37:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
that, thorpe, is very typical of you people when you have no valid points.
you resort to teh name-calling and teh ultraviolence.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-09-03 05:28:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2005-09-03 04:40:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
electrictoothsyndrome needs to take an economics class.
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You need to take a slap in the face.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-09-03 05:13:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
your graphs are all arbitrary and shit.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2005-09-03 04:40:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
electrictoothsyndrome needs to take an economics class.
Submitted by Rawrg (user info) at 2005-09-03 00:16:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It was mroe than I expected too, but Greenland and Iceland were named to deter people from immigrating to the lush and green Iceland. They'd rather they immigrate or try to conquer the frozen Greenland.
Submitted by Chinaski (user info) at 2005-09-02 19:52:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Dude, there's a-craaazy happenin's in N.O.!
looting, rioting, rape!
the end draweth nigh.
Submitted by XFile (user info) at 2005-09-02 16:44:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Absolutly correct. If it wasn't for the cooling and warming process, most of the country I live in would never have existed.
You see, the Netherlands, long before we decided to build dykes, was very much influenced by the sea. In the warmer eras, the sea level rose. Which led to it depositing layers of clay. Now when the climate got a bit colder, the sea level did not rise at all, giving vegetation a chance to grow. Now the whole coastline was one big marshland situated around a delta of rivers, so large deposits of what I believe you call 'peat' added up to a layer. Eventually it got warmer and sea levels started to rise again. Causing new deposits of clay.
This whole process repeated itself over the course of thousands of years, ever since the last ice age that hit the Northern Hemisphere.
Eventually, settlers arrived in the area, got pissed by the wetlands and unpredictable seas (storm seasons would drown out the villages) so they build dykes. Although it kept the lands dry, and suitable for holding lifestock and whatever, it also caused the problems we are facing today: Our land is far below sea level, the sea level is rising and our land is slowly but surely going down. The drowning of the lands is also due to the warming of earths climate system, there is a balance point between the icecaps in Scandinavia and my country. The pressure of the Scandinavian icecaps on the mountainranges is slowly decreasing, causing the mountains to rise (remember, the continental plates 'float' on the magma streams far beneath the earth's crust). While magma floats under the Scandinavian mountainranges, that magma must come from somewhere, and it seems my country is it.
Is my country fucked? Yes, but we'll manage, just as we've done in the past 1500 years or so.
Class dismissed.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 15:52:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What did I do to piss you off Johnny X?
You rate everything I do -2
Submitted by c1ndy (user info) at 2005-09-02 15:44:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
interesting stuff
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-02 15:28:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Absolutely right.
There is no question we have an effect on our environment.Any variable in a chaotic system that makes functional changes to the system will have an effect. That's just common sense.
The debate centers around how much effect we have, and I am completely with you. We have a profound effect in my opinion. Just looking at the raw data, the numbers, it is absurd to me that anyone can ignore or dismiss the levels of CO2 we are introducing to our atmosphere as having a 'negligible effect'. It's just plain ludicrous.
No one, including myself, pretends that climatic changes and fluctuations haven't always occured on earth, but we also have to understand that the natural changes that might have otherwise occured without our influence will never be known for certain. All we know now is, the earth is heating up and that greenhouse gasses like the CO2 released in the burning of fossil fuels will only add to the problem.
It makes sense to conserve while we can, and look for alternatives in the meantime until a more permanent solution presents itself.
You wanna know why you have this conspiracy to quieten and supress this information? What do you think would happen to the American and global economy if we were to cease the mining of coal and the drilling for oil? What do you think would happen if all our vehicles ran on hydrogen?
That's right. We'd have a lot of social and economic issues to deal with. There would be a lot of people out of work. How would we employ them? These are real issues, but ignoring the larger issue at hand to postpone this one helps nothing in the end, and eventually we'll have bigger problems than maintaining the economic facade.
This consumerist/capitalist lifestyle is being put to the test, and, like communism before it, it will eventually fail.
Enjoy the show everyone.
Submitted by mastershake (user info) at 2005-09-02 15:00:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
they were only French, who cares
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:59:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Save the environment.
Kill yourself.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:57:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I am giving up, it is time for my long weekend.
I could swear I read it in a national geographic or some similiar scientific mag.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:55:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:37:53 (#)
Ranking: 0
I like the way you say you 'will find the link', cos if its on the net it must be true right.
Im not actually disputing it, Im just saying the internet isn't particualarly reliable.
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Well I could find a website in two minutes that said it, I am looking for something reliable.
Would you belive the findings from www.indoninjaBS.com They are pretty reputable.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:44:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:33:57 (#)
Ranking: 0
apparently algarusa I didnt cater low enough.
I am willing to accept that some glaciers aren't melting, I know they all were 5 years ago or so, but local influences could certainly have changed things since then, but the vast majority are melting, and the amount of ice as a whole is really decreasing. Anyway you get the idea.
Greenland, may not actually be melting, though with a mass that size its hard to tell.
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It has been getting colder in greenland for the past 40 years, and in the Antarctic is has been cooling by 0.12 degrees Celsius per decade(for roughtly the last 30 years).
I agree that in general more are melting, but climates change. The environment is never static. This is my problem with a lot of Global warming nuts.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:41:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nowadays greenland isn't so green and the farms are gone, its a lot colder these days, global cooling.
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Is kind of a misnomer. There were always horrible winters in Greenland, which is why the Vikings competed heavily with the native Inuet for skins and meat, instead of relying solely on their farms.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:37:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I like the way you say you 'will find the link', cos if its on the net it must be true right.
Im not actually disputing it, Im just saying the internet isn't particualarly reliable.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:36:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I really dont believe we are decreasing it Indon, though as I said there is suggestions that we are decreasing the rate of cooling to such an extent that it is getting warmer.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:33:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
apparently algarusa I didnt cater low enough.
I am willing to accept that some glaciers aren't melting, I know they all were 5 years ago or so, but local influences could certainly have changed things since then, but the vast majority are melting, and the amount of ice as a whole is really decreasing. Anyway you get the idea.
Greenland, may not actually be melting, though with a mass that size its hard to tell.
Submitted by alragusa (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:30:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This post is crap. CRAP!!!
This is a tired argument that no one gives a shit about!!
We have FUCKING WARNING LABELS on cigarettes and people still smoke. We see spots on the tellie about kids getting killed by drunk drivers and shit if people stop that.
Stop bitching about "rising ocean levels", "melting glaciers" and 1 or 2 degree temperature changes. Hotter/Cooler - whatever man. Humanity is not changing over this. The 2% or 3% of days that are "intolerable" are still not bad. When it's 90 degrees on Christmas then I will say you were right. Unfortunately for you, that probably won't be for 25,000 years.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:27:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"That is the problem, the human effect. Human activity is having an affect on climate change, the problem is that we have no idea how much."
+2
"On the other hand, we could be simply be increasing a natural warming rate by as little as 20%."
We could be inc as much as 0%, we could be decreasing it we don't really have much to compaer it to.
+0
I am going to go with the plus two because this was very close to being a balanced piece on global warming, and actually it was more that I expected.
Not all glaciers are melting. I will find the link.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:18:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes im an incoherent person, I thought you'd have got that by now
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:17:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
also becaus = because
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:16:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
your posts are always this incoherent, aren't they? after reading this I still can't extract any new facts from it, anything that I didn't know before.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:16:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
thing=think
Submitted by Mike00295 (user info) at 2005-09-02 14:13:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"On a third hand, if you have one, they were only French, who cares."
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I'll have to agree.