An idea doomed to crash and burn (1208 hits)
Category: NoneLabels: uber-related
Rating: 1.05 on 54 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Circe <fickle.muse.at.gmail.com> (View user info) at 2005-09-09 10:55:53 EDT
"Bewitched" was a show designed to appeal to male fantasy; a very strong woman, capable of anything, who was utterly devoted to and subjugated by her man.
We have this woman - she has magical powers (obviously a metaphor for the feminine strength that has so baffled and frightened men over the years) and yet her most important priority is keeping the house clean and her husband's life running smoothly. This woman, capable of changing the world, allowed herself to be subjugated and dominated by her husband and never made so much as a peep.
When she could have been ending world hunger, she was trying not to let Darren find out that she'd used her magic to get the hoovering done. She insisted on keeping her mother away from her husband, because she didn't want anything to disrupt his life or upset him. Darren was a man with a vicious temper who got upset real easy, and Samantha, potentially the greatest woman ever known, catered to his every whim with nary a protest.
She enjoyed being nothing more than a glorified cook and cleaning woman. Hell, she wasn't even glorified that much. Her innate need to be the perfect wife - at the cost of her own not inconsiderable strength - is what all men, deep down, want to believe is present in every woman on earth.
OR
"Bewitched" was a pioneer in the feminist movement.
Samantha - a strong, capable, beautiful woman - catered to her weak, frightened husband's insecurities. He was so disgusted by her strength (again, we'll see it as a metaphor) that he forbade her to use her natural abilities to make her life easier. He preferred her to slave for him and degraded her into performing manual labor.
But Samantha never intended to let him walk over her this way. To keep the poor weak fool happy, she did her best to hide her power from him, while using it to better all situations, often with him being none the wiser.
She often had to baby him out of his frequent bad tempers. She was nurturing and reassuring, while rarely seeming to need reassurance herself. Obviously the strong partner in the relationship, she indulged her husband's need for constant ego-soothing when his weakness and self-doubt manifested as childlike displays of temper.
_________
Possible discussion topic? Without Google or quotes or all your pesky "facts" and "logic" and "history."
Bugger all that. Tell me what you think. Let's just argue about something that, for once, probably won't offend anyone or provoke death threats.
Maybe. Or not. It's just an idea.
User Reviews
Submitted by Maltese (user info) at 2006-12-10 18:34:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by mrwolf (user info) at 2005-10-07 12:02:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wish I'd caught this when it was first written so I could add something more useful than umm... hiya!
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2005-09-10 00:37:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:14:59 (#)
Ranking: -2
Darren was in advertising.
"I Dream of Jeannie" had the astronaut.
AHAHAHAHAHA, I got my dorks mixed up.
By the way. Definitely Jeannie over Ginger or Mary Ann. :)
Submitted by ghey (user info) at 2005-09-09 20:18:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
You got it right the second time. "I dream of Jeannie" was the guy's fantasy show.
Just guessing though, I don't really know. My favorite was CHiPS.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-09-09 17:06:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think a better debate would have been: who was the better Darren?
Dick York or Dick Sargent?
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2005-09-09 16:58:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You know what? I enjoyed the hell out of this post. I seriously worry about the people who thought you were grinding an axe against men or promoting some ideology here-- I think they failed to grasp that you were presenting two sides of a dichotomy and not arguing on one side or the other. I'm not quite sure how, because I managed to get it and I'm running on 2 hours sleep plus I just got through dealing with a classroom full of dazed 18-20 year olds.
I am genuinely serious when I say that I'm dead certain this very topic has been the subject of at least one academic paper in a journal or monograph. This is exactly the kind of thing that the mushy weird theory divisions of trendy colleges love. Think I'm kidding? Check out how many schools in the US have Departments of "Humanities, Media & Cultural Studies", or "Women's Studies, Gender & Sexuality". What you just put up here in a moment of whimsy probably qualifies you for a bachelor's degree at several small yet prestigious liberal arts colleges.
Now I think your second thesis is untenable because if you look at the contemporary culture when the show was created, it was at a time when TV executives and advertising executives were entirely male, when decisions about TV-buying and viewing were largely a husband's, and when the nascent women's movement was fair game for mockery as a kind of eccentric and pathetic lunatic fringe. Any later women who put Samantha up on a pedestal as a proto-feminist role model are probably not your typical left-wing feminist activist types but pragmatic domestic-engineer types who are looking for external validation from a society that in large part expects or even demands that women seek employment outside the home in order to be valued. --Just look at the implicit assumption that Samantha would be out saving the world if she wasn't home doing the ironing to see the kind of pressure I'm talking about. In reality she'd be a marketing executive selling trashy worthless crap to the gullible or using her powers as a corporate lawyer to screw people over, wouldn't she? But that's a different point.
I say, if you pick the right mate, then the ultimate male fantasy and the archetypal strong woman can easily coexist.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-09 16:49:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If you really want a debate, let's discuss why Wilbur spent all that time out in the stable talking to his horse instead of inside fucking his hot wife up against all the household appliances.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-09 16:39:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I liked the chick from "I Dream of Genie" better. She was fucking HOT!
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-09-09 14:58:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well, we all know that Derwood is ghey, which would account for his crankiness.
And I want to live in Jeannie's bottle (with her, of course)
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2005-09-09 14:22:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Who cares about apathy?
Submitted by PokeyPecker (user info) at 2005-09-09 13:39:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2005-09-09 13:03:30 (#)
Ranking: 2
Frighteningly enough, Bewitched has a Japanese counterpart. Predictably enough, the Japanese Samantha (Belldandy) doesn't have a meddling mother and psychotic uncle, but a sexy older sister, and a little sis who likes to build bombs and killer robots.
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To hell with the Lizzie Borden Movie. I wanna see THIS.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2005-09-09 13:03:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Frighteningly enough, Bewitched has a Japanese counterpart. Predictably enough, the Japanese Samantha (Belldandy) doesn't have a meddling mother and psychotic uncle, but a sexy older sister, and a little sis who likes to build bombs and killer robots.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2005-09-09 12:57:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Heeeeey! What about MEEEEEEEEEE?!
That's what I was trying to do DAMMIT!!!
You know equal opportunity taking offense at the drop of a hat. It's my "thing."
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 12:43:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Than - it's because making men look like fools is "safe". You do it to a woman - make any kind of show where the female is the stupid one, the lazy one, the lesser partner - and every ball breaking feminist with a grudge is going to come out of the woodwork and slam it to hell. There's no "male equality" movement as yet, so men are considered an easy target.
Submitted by Thanatos (user info) at 2005-09-09 12:34:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Interesting discussion.
I'd like to see something about how 90% of the men on tv, especially in sitcoms, are portrayed as having an IQ 20 points below Forrest Gump.
Bewitched - Darren was retarded
Everybody Loves Raymond(shitty show) - Raymond is retarded
Seinfeld - George, although funny, is retarded
The Simpsons/Family Guy(awesome shows) - Main male character is retarded
King of Queens - Main character is retarded
Friends - Everyone is retarded
Really, I don't watch much network tv. I was having a hard time coming jup with names of shows.
Submitted by Kre8rix (user info) at 2005-09-09 12:33:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's things like this that cause me to fear just how far my apathy has progressed.
Either scenario, I really couldn't give a shit. He was a pussy, she was a pussy. It's all point of view. Maybe neither of the situations were true and there was a third, more realistic option in which neither of them wanted to dominate the other; or maybe not.
Maybe they both secretly worked for a secret society and were playing roles in order to fit in to thier little suburban neighborhood, hiding their true intentions of world domination from their dim-witted neighbors.
Maybe they were aliens.
As I said, it's all subjective and I'm really tired of all this 'Who is the dominant sex' bullshit. It's different for everyone because everyone has different personal beliefs and experiences.
Who gives a shit about the roles in someone else's relationship? People focus way too much on other peoples lives.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2005-09-09 12:33:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You are a black man and I am your Homey.
Submitted by Professional_Peon (user info) at 2005-09-09 12:25:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by swamp_donkey (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:36:02 (#)
Ranking: -2
Beotched
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Hahahaha
If she had any real magic she would have made her husband a handsome, rich, well hung mute but then the audience would not be able to relate.
Submitted by Mario (user info) at 2005-09-09 12:15:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Yeah, I see your point, but there's nothing wrong with a woman spoiling her man a bit. Most women my age cannot cook for shit and I always end up making dinner. Feminism has gone too far when there is little feminine about the majority of women these days. Wear a dress every now and then and cook for us on occasion, it won't kill you.
Submitted by SiskelandFatboy (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:56:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah, I remember the version that cast Jenna Jameson as Samantha.
What?
Sorry...
Submitted by c1ndy (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:39:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've never seen Bewitched. I need to watch more TV. cool post.
Submitted by LadyPlural (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:37:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
GOR!
What?
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:36:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:32:21 (#)
Ranking: 1
Back when I was a kid, seeing Elizabeth Montgomery walking through a quiet house completely naked, covered in blood and carrying an axe in the old TV movie about Lizzie Borden gave me an erection that lasted about 48 hours.
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WHERE THE HELL DO I FIND THAT?????
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:36:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
as a topic, it isnt the strongest, but its still discussable. in my opinion its the epitome of the male fantasy - a subserviant potential fuckhole who maintains domestic order though means that the man in question has no way of learning or replicating, thereby ensuring a perpetual circle of co-dependence which ensures he does as little as possible and remains at the top of the emotional food chain, as she performs her little miracles for his pleasure and convenience. as far as a feminist ideology, i dont think it stands up - the mere point of saying she 'cleverly hides her methods' is a reinforcement of the males domination: she HAS to hide her skills, for fear of endangering the males sense of superiorioty and therefore his masculinity
Submitted by swamp_donkey (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:36:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Beotched
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:35:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:32:21 (#)
Ranking: 1
Back when I was a kid, seeing Elizabeth Montgomery walking through a quiet house completely naked, covered in blood and carrying an axe in the old TV movie about Lizzie Borden gave me an erection that lasted about 48 hours.
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I don't care what who you are or what you say, that is well impressive.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:34:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Whoever made those shows was a repressed homosexual, is what they were.
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True dat. You would just be asking her too stop time so every day you ragged her rotten and had a lie in. She'd then magic the cat to make you both a ham sammich and cuppa tea.
As Bigmike say's though, you'd be fucked trying to raise the magic toddler:
Kid: I WANNA ICE CREAM NOW!
Me: If you want something you have to ask nicely and say please.
Kid: I WANNA ICE CREAM NOW! NOW,NOW,NOW,NOW!
Me: If you're going to be such an arsehole about it you can go to bed without any tea.
Kid: I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU
*Deathray*
*Berty shaped chalk outline*
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:32:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Back when I was a kid, seeing Elizabeth Montgomery walking through a quiet house completely naked, covered in blood and carrying an axe in the old TV movie about Lizzie Borden gave me an erection that lasted about 48 hours.
Bewitched reruns have a special magic all their own.
A better argument is who was more pissy, Darren or Jeannie's Tony Nelson?
Submitted by PokeyPecker (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:25:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
All I'm sayin' here, is that if I were Darren, I'd have been hitting that tail daily, and having her whip up a few mansions in Europe, North America and the Carribean.
She'd have been the most loved wife on the fucking PLANET, if it'd been me. I would've NEVER cheated on her man. NEVER.
Same with that Major Tony asshat. Here he had a Jeanie. A FUCKING JEANIE. A HOT one at that. And he didn't want to fuck her? Or let her do magic shit for him?
Whoever made those shows was a repressed homosexual, is what they were.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:21:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:20:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Did, Berty.
Replied to the hotmail addy.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:19:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Circe, I'm sorry about the rambling email last night. It was past midnight and I wasn't thinking in straight lines.
Did you actually recieve it?
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:15:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Sorry, Teeph. Was tongue in cheek.
Didn't work.
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:14:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Darren was in advertising.
"I Dream of Jeannie" had the astronaut.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:14:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, my bad.
I guess words like "subjugated" and "dominated" in reference to the male role or the thought that "Her innate need to be the perfect wife - at the cost of her own not inconsiderable strength - is what all men, deep down, want to believe is present in every woman on earth."
Kind of threw me.
WHAT was I thinking?!
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:13:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Didn't Darren work for NASA or some shit like that? Anybody see the irony in that?
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Little help?
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:11:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by professorfuckface (user info) at 2005-09-09 10:59:08 (#)
Ranking: 0
I think you're a fat cunt, lose some weight and/or ugliness """
No need.
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:11:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't know. Having a woman around that could fix things just by wiggling her nose could come in handy. Think about all the time and money you would save.
Having a child that could do the same thing? Disaster.
Didn't Darren work for NASA or some shit like that? Anybody see the irony in that?
Submitted by PokeyPecker (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:09:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that Jeanneee. She married two Dicks.
Man, some chicks never learn.
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:08:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Teeph - the first scenario was about the woman being a spineless twat. I don't hate men.
Blah. Night.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:08:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think Samantha had a real desire to be dominated. She really was all powerfull but wanted nothing more than 'the love of the man she loved'. Berty would guess that this submissive urge did in fact come from her mother, the only person who's power rivalled her own and who would have been the dominant force in young Samantha's life. Given that Sam's mum not only wanted her daughter to be with a 'better' man, but tried in her flawed way to make Sam's life better, I think it's safe to assume that her love for her child was genuine but had taken the form of 'tough' love.
I reckon the whole show can be seen as a look at why people feel the way they feel: Sam's immense power and yet submissive nature, the mother's domineering love and the husband's confused but eager compassion for his wife. All very relevant issues given the lack of interfamily communication and understanding present during that period.
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:07:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Screwed the pooch here, huh?
Sorry 'bout that.
Night, all.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:05:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Dick York? Dick Sargent? SARGENT YORK!
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:05:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:02:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
Hell, I didn't come up with it.
What doesn't make sense?
Man - weak.
Woman - strong, but has to pretend to be weak in order to not scare man.
Fuckface - Very brave man with some good solid points to make, backed up by his flawless physical appearance and impeccable character. Not predictable in the least.
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That's pretty funny right there.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:04:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Wow. You're actually wrong. This DID piss me off. But, then again, misandry usually does.
Beyond your man-hating, I'm still calling bullshit on your little theory here unless you want to run "Aladin" through the same little psychoanalitical gauntlet. I'm guessing your insights into the homosexual male psyche will be equally profound.
She's a fookin' GENIE, woman!!!
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:02:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hell, I didn't come up with it.
What doesn't make sense?
Man - weak.
Woman - strong, but has to pretend to be weak in order to not scare man.
Fuckface - Very brave man with some good solid points to make, backed up by his flawless physical appearance and impeccable character. Not predictable in the least.
Submitted by satchel (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:02:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Um ... bit of both maybe?
Submitted by PokeyPecker (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:00:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Darren was a spermball too.
Submitted by joelieswhenhecries (user info) at 2005-09-09 11:00:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I'd hit it.
either scenario
Submitted by missflibble (user info) at 2005-09-09 10:59:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"He preferred her to slave for him and degraded her into performing manual labor."
what, like hand-jobs?
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2005-09-09 10:59:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The second one is wrong and doesn't make any sense.
Submitted by Dervel (user info) at 2005-09-09 10:59:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wiggly nosed bint? Yes?
Submitted by professorfuckface (user info) at 2005-09-09 10:59:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think you're a fat cunt, lose some weight and/or ugliness
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2005-09-09 10:57:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
it's a fucking crappy american tv show.
the end.