Why Rafael Palmeiro Will Not Make the Hall of Fame (835 hits)
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Submitted by cocaine (View user info) at 2005-09-23 17:04:13 EDT
First, look at the man's lifetime stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=1764
He has over 3,000 hits and over 500 home runs. A lifetime .290ish batting average, a respectable OBP, and a 3-time gold glover. He has also played the bulk of his career as a first baseman and not at DH (unlike Edgar Martinez, who WILL make the Hall of Fame).
On the surface, Rafael Palmeiro is a lock. But as we all know, this fucker tested positive to steroids earlier in the season. Now, testing positive for steroids might have been a blight in an otherwise quiet but brilliant career. We would be idiotic to assume that other Major League athletes do not dope up. Just look at Barry Bonds, the man that will soon surpass Hank Aaron in the all-time Home Run record. The guy has metamorphosed from a skinny, base-stealing twig into, well, a behemoth. We are not blind, Barry. But we will surely see you in Cooperstown.
But not Raffy. (note: I was tempted to call him "poor Raffy" for a second, but opted against it when I realized how much I fucking hate the guy) No, Raffy will now and forever be remembered not only as a superstar who tested positive for teh ghey roids, but also as one who attempted to rat out fellow teammate and superstar, Miguel Tejada (for those unaware, http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2170471).
Are you kidding me? What a fucking asshole. He tried to wiggle his way out of trouble by placing the blame on someone else? File this one under the 'If I'm going down, I'm taking everyone else with me' docket. Bud Selig and Major League Baseball has already absolved Tejada of any wrongdoing in this case. This now makes Palmeiro look like a bigger schmuck because not only have the fans lost respect for him, but also now I'd imagine most of the players (most of whom liekly empathized with Raffy when he was first indicted) will ostracize him and send him away on Gulag ala 'Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.'
Good. Fuck him. Rat's justice I say. Just as Pete Rose has been 'banned for life' from the Hall, so too should this wetback rat.
I'm not saying that roids are good. I'm all for them. They make baseball more fun to watch (see: Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, etc). I even sided with Raffy after he got caught. I felt badly for him. He was such a sweet and innocent guy, you know?
But as DeNiro so succinctly put it in 'Goodfellas,' "Never rat on your friends and ALWAYS keep your mouth shut."
Here here!
Happy Weekend everyone!
User Reviews
Submitted by Coleslaw_Murphy (user info) at 2006-06-23 13:54:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
We did similar posts at right around the same time, and I missed it somehow.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/74859
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2005-09-24 22:37:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i really don't care if they shoot piss or Clorox in their veins as long as they entertain me
Submitted by Serious_Melvin (user info) at 2005-09-23 22:18:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Poor Raffy testified that Tejada gave him B-12, which was true. He suggested that the B-12 might have resulted in the positive test (maybe implying something wrong with their test methods). So this whole thing about Palmiero blaming Tejada for giving him steroids is all sorts of spin.
That being said, I thinkg that Palmiero *probably* did take steroids intentionally. I also don't think Edgar is a hall of fame lock, but then maybe his chances are good. The sports writers seem to respect him.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-09-23 18:32:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Bonds' stats (over the same period):
1990 -age 25- 33
1991 -age 26- 25
1992 -age 27- 34
1993 -age 28- 46
1994 -age 29- 37
1995 -age 30- 33
1996 -age 31- 42
1997 -age 32- 40
1998 -age 33- 37
1999 -age 34- 34
2000 -age 35- 49
2001 -age 36- 73
2002 -age 37- 46
2003 -age 38- 45
2004 -age 39- 45
You want an analysis of strikeouts and walks next? Sosa made 4 GOOD years in the age of steroids. Bonds has been power for over 15 years. Interesting note - he was skinny for a lot of those 40 hr/40 steals years.
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2005-09-23 18:24:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
why I do not care about US sports and associated posts (abridged):
they suck.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-09-23 18:21:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If you look at Sosa's numbers, his jumps year to year are greater than all but one of Bonds'. And if you look at who else was on Bonds' team the year he hit 73, you'll see why. He had strong hitters around him so you had to pitch to him sometimes.
Sosa's stats:
1990-age 21-15 hr
1991-age 22-10
1992-age 23-8
1993-age 24-33
1994-age 25-25
1995-age 26-36
1996-age 27-40
1997-age 28-36
1998-age 29-66
1999-age 30-63
2000-age 31-50
2001-age 32-64
2002-age 33-49
2003-age 34-30
2004-age 35-35
Between 97 and 98, an almost 100% increase? In "prime" steroid time?
I'll do Bonds up next.....
Submitted by Beer_bong (user info) at 2005-09-23 18:12:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think Sosa is just in the declining years of his career. Naturally, he's not going to be at the same level he was at in 98.
Submitted by nitty34 (user info) at 2005-09-23 18:11:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
My take on Bonds: http://www.ubersite.com/m/62623
Think Dale Murphy will make it? The shining star for a shitty Braves team throughout the 80s?
Doubtful, but I hope he does.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-09-23 18:03:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Beer_bong (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:59:22 (#)
Ranking: 2
Sosa used a corked bat in BP to give the fans a show, he fessed to that and it was accepted. All his other bats, and the ones in the hall were x-rayed and came out clean as a bean.
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That's more solid than anything on Bonds, though. He used it in a game and was caught. Besides, Bonds is still tearing it up, whereas Sosa has faded into batting obscurity and is now a less-than-mediocre outfielder.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:59:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:51:53 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:45:41 (#)
Ranking: -1
Sosa will end up with the single season HR record in the end because an asterisk will taint Bonds and McGwire's numbers.
66 is the legitimate record.
...Sosa corked.
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Very good point. Sosa hasn't been hitting anywhere near as well since he was caught using a corked bat. Toss an asterisk next to his record too.
Submitted by Beer_bong (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:59:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sosa used a corked bat in BP to give the fans a show, he fessed to that and it was accepted. All his other bats, and the ones in the hall were x-rayed and came out clean as a bean.
Submitted by Confuzitron (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:54:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
While I may not COMPLETELY agree, any line like "a superstar who tested positive for teh ghey roids," that has me laughing like a little girl, warrants nothing less than +2.
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:51:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:45:41 (#)
Ranking: -1
Sosa will end up with the single season HR record in the end because an asterisk will taint Bonds and McGwire's numbers.
66 is the legitimate record.
...Sosa corked.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:45:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Sosa will end up with the single season HR record in the end because an asterisk will taint Bonds and McGwire's numbers.
66 is the legitimate record.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:44:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Don't you people remember the whole scandal with Bonds??? He DID test positive for steroids! Are you living under a rock? Barry Bonds has been on the needle since the early 90s when everyone else started doing it.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:41:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Edgar Martinez will not make the HOF. The numbers are not there, not for a power position like 1B. While 309HRs is respectable, it's not of the calibre of his contemporaries at that position.
Rafael Palmeiro broke the rules and was caught. If Pete Rose can't be in the Hall, then he shouldn't either. Neither should McGwire or Bonds, or anyone else who, through overwealming volume of credible evidence, is found to have cheated through steroids. The only man who should come out clean from the Roid era who put up the big numbers is Sosa, frankly because, if he did do anything, he was never caught doing it.
Submitted by Beer_bong (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:38:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Edgar saved baseball in Seattle. After the 95 season, the M's started losing their appeal, Randy Johnson left, Griffey left, Jay Buhner retired, but Edgar stayed and gave everything he could to the game, including his knees and hamstrings. I think the writers will realize that. Without Edgar the M's would be playing in fucking Utah or Oklahoma now.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:38:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
My only point on Bonds is look how much Giambi shrank. Look at the pitchers who are shrinking and can't throw as hard as they could. Then look at Bonds. I thought he probably was, but he's as big as ever, his swing is as fast as ever, and his timing is as good as ever. He'd either have to still be doping (very dumb) or just worked his ass off the whole time.
Submitted by cocaine (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:32:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ryu, it's a shame. I love Donny as well. His poster adorned my wall when I was just a wee lad in little league. It sucks that he played in between dynasties.
Hadtobdone, I guess only time will tell with Bonds. But as of now? 4 HRs in 4 straight games? Don't know what to say. The guy is everything amazing and horrible about baseball at the same time. In one respect, you want to vilify him for MAYBE doping, on the other, the long ball is just so much fun to watch.
Submitted by bush_for_god (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:29:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The MLB is corrupt, and it's Bud Selig's fault 100%.
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:26:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Okay, let me put it this way:
They're both deserving, but I don't think either will get voted in by the sportswriters. It seems only the players they played against and the fans truly appreciate them.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:26:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
And I meant to +1 that, so here you go.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:25:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So why hasn't Bonds shrunk like everyone else who was swept up in the steroids scandal? What happens if he does lose weight (roids related or not) like he says he will, and he still hits 40 or 50 home runs a year?
Will he still be considered a roids user if his stats stay the same now?
Oh, and Palmeiro WILL make the Hall, but not until about....2015 or 2020.
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:24:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hmm, I just compared their stats...it seems Edgar had a longer period of "goodness," even if Donny's period of "greatness" was shortlived.
Either way, neither are making it in. Have a +1.5.
Yes, I'm a Yankees fan.
Submitted by cocaine (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:23:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
RyuFu, http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martied01.shtml
.312 lifetime average
309 HRs
514 Doubles
.418 OBP
He's in the Hall.
And I am 100% with on Donny Baseball as well. It's a shame he didn't make it on the first ballot.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:19:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Bonds is everything wrong with baseball
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:18:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
+2 for insightful analysis.
-1 for thinking Edgar will make the Hall. Even if he played the field, his numbers weren't really Hall-worthy.
Let me put it this way: If he makes it in, Donny Baseball better fucking make it in.
Submitted by Beer_bong (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:18:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You must be an M's fan. GO EDGAR WOO!
Submitted by DonkeyOnTheEdge (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:08:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I always thought he looked like a child molester. Nothing he has done on or off field has swayed my opinion of the shitbag I assumed he was.
Submitted by ajanssen (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:07:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Ive got secret pictures of Rafael http://www.ubersite.com/m/72498
Submitted by Xcuses (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:06:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Way to rat out your teammates. I've lost all respect for the man.
Submitted by c1ndy (user info) at 2005-09-23 17:05:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
here is +2 beecause i wish i knew what this post was about- bit like cricket?