How is this murder? (918 hits)
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Submitted by Indoninja (View user info) at 2005-10-19 12:19:42 EDT
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/19/spain.us.soldiers/index.html
I have the message below, but to sum it up a spanish cameraman in Baghdad to cover the US advancement in 2003 was killed when a tank shell hit his hotel.
The spanish are saying it is ""murder" and "a crime against the international community."
He willingly went into a war zone, with people who consistently use civilians as shields (I am not going to google it for you, look at the first Gulf war, or at all the peacs protestors before this one who saddam asked to sit in front of strategic targets) and expected anywhere he was standing to be a no fire zone.
I don't know the back story, was he filming at the time (a camera could easily be confused as an RPG launcher). The soilders there said they were coming under fire from the building, reporters said they saw none. How would the reporters be able to confirm this unless they were looking out thew window? If they were looking out the window, why were cameras not rolling(I don't think they shold have, but I don't think they are that sharp)? If they were where is proof that there are no shots fired? I am really curious about this. If he had his camera out he deserved it, that is common sense. If he was just taking cover, well sorry but why was he there? Why would the tanks have fired, I am sorry but they would be out of rounds if they were haphazardly trying to level the city with tanks.
That is all irrelevant he went seeking a big story so he could be a brave journalist. Well he got his big story, I just wish his parents would shut up about it.
He wasn't an innocent civilian, he was there to be close to danger. He chose to be there. I am not going to go so far as to say I am glad he is dead, but spain trying to press charges over it is ridiculous.
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Spain issues warrant for 3 U.S. soldiers
By CNN Madrid Bureau Chief Al Goodman
Wednesday, October 19, 2005; Posted: 10:18 a.m. EDT (14:18 GMT)
MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- A Spanish judge has issued an international arrest warrant for three U.S. soldiers for alleged participation in the death of Spanish TV cameraman Jose Couso in Baghdad as U.S. forces advanced to take control of the city in April 2003.
National Court investigating magistrate Santiago Pedraz issued the warrant Wednesday for the arrests of the soldiers and will seek their extradition to Spain, a National Court spokeswoman told CNN.
They are wanted for "murder" and "a crime against the international community," according to the warrant, a copy of which was viewed by CNN partner network CNN+.
Couso, who worked for Spain's Telecinco network, died at the Hotel Palestine on April 8, 2003, where he was on duty as a TV cameraman to shoot images of war-torn Baghdad.
The arrest warrant named the three soldiers as Sgt. Thomas Gibson, commander of the tank that allegedly fired a projectile at the hotel where Couso was filming; Capt. Philip Wolford, Gibson's superior, and Lt. Colonel Philip D. Camp, the captain's superior, CNN+ reported.
The arrest warrant said they were assigned to the U.S. Army's Third Infantry Division.
The arrest warrant says the U.S. provided "no judicial cooperation" in trying to resolve the death of the cameraman. The judge previously had sought to question the three soldiers but received no response from U.S. authorities.
Couso's family has waged a campaign calling for an independent investigation into his death.
A lawyer for Couso's family told CNN+ that she doubted the arrest warrant would have much practical effect. She said she understood that the United States would not extradite the men and that they stood little chance of arrest unless they left the United States.
Couso was one of three journalists killed in two different buildings that day in Baghdad.
Also killed at the Palestine Hotel was Reuters cameraman Taras Protsyuk, 35, a Ukrainian national based in Warsaw, Poland, the news agency said. It also said three other employees were wounded in the attack.
Separately, Al Jazeera television reporter Tariq Ayoub was killed at the Arab language network's facilities on the other side of the Tigris River from the Palestine Hotel, near Iraq's Ministry of Information. Three other Al Jazeera employees were wounded in the strikes, the network reported.
Telecinco said Couso died during surgery following the attack.
Al Jazeera charged that its facilities were deliberately targeted, an allegation denied by U.S. Central Command.
"... we don't target journalists deliberately -- not now, not ever," said Central Command spokesman Brig. Gen. Vince Brooks.
The U.S. Central Command said U.S. forces came under "significant enemy fire" from both buildings and responded "consistent with the inherent right of self-defense."
Journalists from three Western television networks told CNN they were in the Palestine Hotel when the tank fired and saw no outgoing fire from the hotel.
"These tragic incidents appear to be the latest example of the Iraqi regime's continued strategy of using civilian facilities for regime military purposes," Central Command said in a written statement. The reference to regime was to the government of Saddam Hussein.
"The coalition regrets the loss of innocent life and will continue its effort to protect the innocent from harm."
Then-Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said, "I'd like to express again the department's condolences to the families and friends of the journalists who have been killed in this war. They have been doing very, very important work, and we're saddened by their deaths."
User Reviews
Submitted by HighFructoseCornSyrup (user info) at 2005-10-21 01:42:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by erinly (user info) at 2005-10-21 01:38:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-10-20 04:14:39 (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-10-19 23:17:16 (#)
Ranking: 0
mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
__________________
That's how it's murder.
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1. wasn't unlawful
2. no malice existed.
these men fired on what they considered, and any reasonable man would have considered, a deadly threat.
They reacted appropriately-with deadly force.
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A lawyer!!!
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-10-20 10:19:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-10-20 08:20:51 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-10-20 04:48:21 (#)
Ranking: 0
Malice is not vital.
It was illegal according to the Spanish courts, and it's their prerogative.
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Did it happen in Spain?
then who cares if it is illegal according to the Spanish courts, they have no jurisdiction.
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Indon, I'd like to point out that the US government recently requested the extradition of a British citizen for breaking an american business law.
He broke it in the UK and it was perfectly legal here, so you can't complain about that too loudly, at least he was a spanish citizen and they aren't trying to prosecute someone from a different country for doing something they don't like in a different country.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-10-20 08:20:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-10-20 04:48:21 (#)
Ranking: 0
Malice is not vital.
It was illegal according to the Spanish courts, and it's their prerogative.
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Did it happen in Spain?
then who cares if it is illegal according to the Spanish courts, they have no jurisdiction.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-10-20 04:48:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Malice is not vital.
It was illegal according to the Spanish courts, and it's their prerogative.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-10-20 04:14:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-10-19 23:17:16 (#)
Ranking: 0
mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
__________________
That's how it's murder.
----------------------------------
1. wasn't unlawful
2. no malice existed.
these men fired on what they considered, and any reasonable man would have considered, a deadly threat.
They reacted appropriately-with deadly force.
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2005-10-19 23:43:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
GO STROS!
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2005-10-19 23:17:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
__________________
That's how it's murder.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-10-19 22:59:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2005-10-19 15:26:00 (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Hookhand (user info) at 2005-10-19 13:04:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
Complaining that your son died after he volunteered for a dangerous assignment in an active war zone is kind of like suing a car wash for ruining your interior because you drove your convertible through with the top down
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HAHAHAHA!!!!! Great analogy!
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-10-19 22:14:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm going to sue Queensland Transport after I play in traffic.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-10-19 17:43:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
NSFW in the title? fek off, it said 'and pussy' and there was about 5 screens of warning before it.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2005-10-19 15:26:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Hookhand (user info) at 2005-10-19 13:04:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
Complaining that your son died after he volunteered for a dangerous assignment in an active war zone is kind of like suing a car wash for ruining your interior because you drove your convertible through with the top down
______________
HAHAHAHA!!!!! Great analogy!
Submitted by turbo3000 (user info) at 2005-10-19 15:05:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I guess every soldier that kills someone should be sued? That's so retarded. F Spain.
Submitted by WellFedEthiopian (user info) at 2005-10-19 14:36:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
simply unreal.
Submitted by badassmofo (user info) at 2005-10-19 13:41:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
People die in war. Men, women, children alike and there is really nothing that can be done about it.
No one will write a story or press charges or get all fired up (well aside from us) if they didn't fire the weapon and it did turn out to me an Iraqi in the window, and then they themselves were killed.
Battle time decisions are made in split seconds, sometimes the outcome sucks and sometime it doesn't.
Besides if you (read: spanish journalist) look anything like an Iraqi (read: olive skin and dark hair) you should stay the fuck out of there in the first place.
Submitted by Hookhand (user info) at 2005-10-19 13:04:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Complaining that your son died after he volunteered for a dangerous assignment in an active war zone is kind of like suing a car wash for ruining your interior because you drove your convertible through with the top down.
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2005-10-19 13:02:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Ok. It was still a friendly fire incident.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:59:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:51:55 (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:26:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
No charges are pressed in friendly fire incidents, so this should be chalked up as a tragic accident.
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That's actually not true. Two U.S. pilots were brought up on charges not too long ago for dropping a bomb on Canadian troops, and one was court-martialed for dereliction of duty.
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Those charges were for violating a do not fire order they had received from the ground, not the fact that Canadian soldiers were killed.
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:51:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:26:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
No charges are pressed in friendly fire incidents, so this should be chalked up as a tragic accident.
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That's actually not true. Two U.S. pilots were brought up on charges not too long ago for dropping a bomb on Canadian troops, and one was court-martialed for dereliction of duty.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:50:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I can't help but picture some Geraldo type, and wonder why they aren't thanking us?
Submitted by jack11058 (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:49:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
fuck the spanish. these days, they're a slightly less smelly frenchman.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:45:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:41:20 (#)
Ranking: 0
Watch it, bub. No one forces a soldier to sign up. Or so you proclaim loudly on every Cindy Sheehan post....
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What I meant by that is he specifically chose to be in harms way. It was his goal.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:42:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:26:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sure will try to spin this as the same as Italy's arrest warrants for several CIA agents, but it is entirely different.
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Last I heard about that Italy knew before hand. CIA does some underhanded shit, but it normally has permission from the country they are in. It is too easy to boot people (US CIA peopale) out otherwise.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/29/AR2005062902971.html
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:42:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Spain needs a hobby
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:41:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:38:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:26:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
This was really no different than a soldier going to a combat zone and dying from friendly fire.
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Not really, soilders have to be there.
He chose to go there, and probably was haooy about the war so he could get famous shots.
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Watch it, bub. No one forces a soldier to sign up. Or so you proclaim loudly on every Cindy Sheehan post....
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:38:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:26:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
This was really no different than a soldier going to a combat zone and dying from friendly fire.
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Not really, soilders have to be there.
He chose to go there, and probably was haooy about the war so he could get famous shots.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:27:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
And +2 because I won an xbox 360.
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:26:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sorry, you embed yourself in a squadron, you are part of that squadron like it or not. Even if you are just a journalist.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:26:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sure will try to spin this as the same as Italy's arrest warrants for several CIA agents, but it is entirely different.
Unlike in Italy, wherethe CIA DID kidnap someone, this was really no different than a soldier going to a combat zone and dying from friendly fire. No charges are pressed in friendly fire incidents, so this should be chalked up as a tragic accident.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:25:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've conducted my own research into the matter and come to the conclusion that this entire war on Iraq was nothing but a ploy to get journalists from Spain to hole up in a hotel in Baghdad so 'we' could assassinate them.
I feel badly about it, but they were enemies of freedom and had to be dealt with.
Submitted by hairycoo (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:24:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
all western soliders should be up for murder...
Submitted by Tom (user info) at 2005-10-19 12:23:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The entire war is fucked up, and when it comes right down to it, nobody is right. Except for me.