Accountability for a suicide, an Uber poll of sorts (1052 hits)
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Rating: 1.14 on 47 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Forensic (they made me this way) Girl (View user info) at 2005-10-23 22:46:10 EDT
Allow me to share a story with you. Unfortunately, it is true. I wish to Hell it wasn't. Since this didn't make the news, ethically I must change a few facts. I made sure to keep them minor ones. I'm posting this because I want your opinions. I almost didn't post this but this situation is eating me alive and I need to get this out.
A little over three weeks ago my hospital discharged a minor who had been admitted for an overdose of aspirin. No harm was done; the minor's stomach had been pumped within a half on hour from initial ingestion and the patient was administered activated charcoal to absorb any leftover salicylate in their body. The patient was admitted to our general med/surg unit, received some social services intervention, had follow up counseling sessions arranged, and was discharged after a three day stay.
Now, considering the age of the minor (early teens), the aspirin overdose was taken for attention seeking behavior. Aspirin overdoses (as well as medication overdoses in general) are usually non-lethal because either; 1) the person involuntarily vomits up the drugs, or 2) they are discovered or they inform someone what they did.
A word about this; generally you find overdoses primarily in teenagers and females. In general but not all the time, meaning that you can (and will) find lethal suicide attempts in teens and females. When males make suicide attempts, they tend to be lethal or at the very least very physically damaging. Of course, on occasion, you'll find attention seeking behavior in adult males as well.
This teen's care-team regarded her acting out as attention seeking. This was also confirmed by the teen's mother. The father however was conspicuously silent about his opinion, but he did show great concern.
The day of the teen's discharge, they had one more brief meeting with the counselor. According to the counselor, the teen begged and pleaded not to be returned to the home of the mother. The father (only) was brought into the room. Again, the teen begged and pleaded with the counselor and the father not to be returned to the mother's home but refused to say why. Apparently in desperation, the teen told the counselor and father that if they were returned to the mother's home, they would "kill themselves right next time." Again, the melodramatic display was taken for more attention seeking behavior and was mostly ignored. The father did express more concern but was reassured by the teen's counselor and doctor that they were simply being dramatic and engaging in 'splitting' behavior. 'Splitting behavior' is a roundabout way of saying that someone is manipulating people and pitting one person against another. You find it a lot in teen children of divorced parents. The teen will play one parent off the other.
Late last week the teen was brought back in by ambulance to the ER. I guess you could technically call them alive since the heart was still beating. Most of the teen's head had been blown away by a self-inflicted gunshot. The frontal lobe was gone but the part of the brain that regulates involuntary functions was (more or less) intact. This means that conscious activity (cognition) was gone for good. The child would never be conscious of anything. At most, they would be in a persistent vegetative state for the rest of their natural life and machines would keep the organs alive. But nothing else.
The father looked like a man whose soul had been sucked out of him. He looked 20 years older, ashen, and almost as lifeless as his child now appeared to be. The mother however was a different story.
The mother was making a great display of wailing and weeping and throwing herself on the floor. She demanded that "any and all" lifesaving measures be applied to "keep her lil' baby alive." Thankfully (yes, thankfully) the teen died despite a whole team of physicians' best efforts.
As a final 'fuck you' the mother refused to allow the organs to be harvested. The father remained silent throughout. I believe he wasn't even on Earth.
When the father was able to speak, he kept saying, "I knew there were serious problems but I never imagined it would come to this." And, "I tried to intervene but......" and would fall silent again after that.
I truly believe that the mother should be prosecuted as if she had murdered this child! I have discussed this case with my Professor and have been chastised. "Now Bonnie, you know better! You know about the dynamics of suicide. You know that you cannot hold another person responsible for an act that is spawned from mental pathology."
Bullshit! Yes, if this individual had been an adult, capable of independent action, then holding another person responsible would be wrong. This however was A CHILD! This child wasn't even 14. NOT EVEN 14!
Do you know how RARE it is for a young teen to take their own life in that violent of a manner?! Very very very rare! Take it from me.
Now, according to the frantic nature of the pleading from the teen and the father's own admission that something was seriously wrong going on in the mother's home, I consider that the child was pushed over the edge and it was that mother who did the final push.
Listen to me, behavior like that does not occur in a vacuum. SOMETHING drove that child to do that.
I want to scream for that woman's blood! Nothing will be done of course. Everyone will hug that woman and say "Oh my God! You poor, poor dear! Such a tragedy, such a tragedy!"
She needs to be behind bars.
Yes, more often than not teenagers are melodramatic and irritating. Their suicide attempts are a way of acting out. You want to strangle and choke them. Or at the very least smack 'em a good one!
But ever so rarely, that one child slips through the system's fingers. This is what can happen when they do.
This post is about that one child.
I know what my schooling tells me I should think. The part of my brain that is still a feeling and emotional human being is screaming otherwise.
What do you think? Do you think that the mother should be prosecuted (for mental and emotional abuse if nothing else) or do you think that this was simply a tragic situation that couldn't have been prevented? If that mother would have purposely given that child an illness or injury that caused the child's death, she would most certainly be prosecuted. Just because it is psychological in nature, the authorities are reticent to assign any blame.
......and they wonder why I mostly want to stick with research.
User Reviews
Submitted by Maddog (user info) at 2005-10-24 19:11:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In general but not all the time, meaning that you can (and will) find lethal suicide attempts in teens and females. When males make suicide attempts, they tend to be lethal.
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If the person kills themself then they have "committed" suicide, not attempted.
Who gives a rat-fuck if the little bastard offed himself, anyway? A little more oxygen for the rest of us, I say.
Submitted by coindon (user info) at 2005-10-24 18:55:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Bullet, kneecap- everyone who was involved. No, make that: bullet, forehead.
Submitted by Saxon (user info) at 2005-10-24 18:35:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The system as a whole is probably to blame here. Reading all of the responces id say most have good points and if it happened in Australia there would be a push for a crime commision to study the facts and make recomendations, most of which wont be accepted.
Good Post Sweetie.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2005-10-24 16:23:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My heart goes out to that father.
I've got detachment down pretty good I think. But there will always be a few cases that rattle everyone. This was one for me.
I also want to say that I just don't blame the mother. I blame her for a lot of what happened but social services and the kid's doctor and counselor also need to be held accountable.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-10-24 16:07:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Where's David Caruso when you need him?
Submitted by sideshow (user info) at 2005-10-24 15:51:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:12:11 (#)
Ranking: 1
This is one of those rage-inducing situations where you can't help but feel that the system is completely fucked and flawed, and yet there's nothing that can really be done to improve things.
Short of an investigation - which, as you've mentioned, the authorities are foregoing - there's no way to know exactly what things were like at the mother's place.
And yet, I don't agree that the kid was going to do this one way or the other. Clearly something was up, and something forced the kid's hand. Again.
The father is going to carry this with him for the rest of his life.
The kid's counselor/care team? Maybe. Maybe not.
The mother? God stole her baby from her. Naturally.
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For a suicide attempt with some asprin to turn into a suicide attempt with a gun, shit was obviously fucked up the first time. The kid begged the counsellor and father to not send them home to mommy's place, and they did anyways. All three parties are to blame, but the father prolly feels the worst about it because he had no control over what was going on over there.
For those of you who said the father should've done more, well, I bet he did everything he legally could. The courts are so fucked and skewed when it comes to the father's rights, they basically give the kids to the mom and expect the dad to pay. I come from a divorced family, and I know the shit my parents have gone through. The court battles, the fighting. Every time my dad wanted something, he needed a court order and a lawyer before he could get it. So if daddy wanted to take his precious daughter home with him, he would've had to first go to a lawyer, then to court, and by the time that was all said and done, he would've already missed his daughter's funeral because the court system is fucking slow.
Excellent story, but a very shitty consequence.
Submitted by Wrightcopy (user info) at 2005-10-24 12:55:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think it's a sad, sad situation. I'm a little on the fence with your question, though. I think she should have been held accountable; now that any investigation would be missing the kid's testimony, it would be useless to go into it, though. The mother could say whatever she wanted, true or not, and no one else would know. She could've beat the kid senseless, but the only person that would know AND tell the truth would've been the kid. Someone should have done something when the kid first was in the hospital saying they were going to kill themselves if brought back home with the mother. Instead of saying "Oh, it's all for attention," they should've asked themselves "Well, why is this kid so adamant about this?" When the kid didn't answer, THAT'S when they should've investigated.
Now that I think about it, I think the hospital should be held accountable, at least in some way. They're the ones that ignored the fact that this kid was asking - no, begging - to not go back home, and sent them back anyways. Sure, they didn't know for sure that the teen was going to really kill themselves, but that's what an investigation is for. Don't assume the best and hope everything works out in the end, because it doesn't always work out, and this is one of those cases.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-10-24 12:48:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
you are required to read this: http://www.ubersite.com/m/77638
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-10-24 12:33:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by nahnoneofit (user info) at 2005-10-24 12:19:32 (#)
Ranking: 0
"I think people should only be allowed to breed on licence."
blah blah blah communist propaganda blah blah blah free the proleteriat from the capitalist oppressor blah blah blah I wanna suck mao's cock blah blah blah
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Pinko. The only people who do that shit are the Chinese.
Submitted by Dead_0hi0_Sky (user info) at 2005-10-24 12:26:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
terry schiavo wouldve wanted it that way.
Submitted by nahnoneofit (user info) at 2005-10-24 12:19:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"I think people should only be allowed to breed on licence."
definitley.
you need a lisence to tie a hook to a string and throw it in the water, but anybody can create/be responsible for a HUMAN BEING?
when is the fascist diactative government gonna get this shit right.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2005-10-24 10:51:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Something tells me that both parents are hiding something. Legally, I don't think that anything can be done - it's a case of closing the barn door after the horse got out.
You need to keep yourself from getting emotionally attached to thees things if you want to stay sane.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2005-10-24 10:07:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
wow
I haven't read the replies so this has probably been said, but isn't there something criminally negligent about a kid that age having access to a loaded gun? I'm a bit torn on the blaming the mother thing. Maybe something was going on there or maybe the kid was just mentally imbalanced.
I'm afraid that at this point, the authorities will not touch this one with a 10 foot pole.
For one thing, nothing can be done for the kid now so an investigation will just dredge up blame. If they start investigated the mom, she will go in front of the cameras and talk about how she has been vilified VILIFIED in her moment of tragedy and probably sue the counselors for not taking the original suicide attempt seriously.
nothing good would come of it and unless there are other children in the home, probably whatever was going on (or not) with the mother will not be repeated
When I was in high school, I had a friend who had a friend who used to pull this suicide shit all the time for attention.
too many pronouns?
Ok, let's say my friend Kelly would get calls from this other chick whom I had met on a couple of occasions but didn't ever hang out with, let's call her Amy.
So Amy would take a handful of whatever she could get her hands on and then call Kelly who would then, at the ripe old age of 16, be responsible for calling the authorities, rushing over to the hospital, and having to make the fuss over Amy that Amy wanted all along just to keep her from doing something to drastic, like not calling. According to the counselors on the scene, the whole sordid mess was because Kelly was, oddly enough, dating young menz like 16 year old girls will do and Amy was feeling abandoned by her old childhood friend because they boyz did things for Kelly that Amy was not so much equipped to do.
It could be the case that Amy was just ever a tad bit on the lesbo side, but I don't know that for sure.
The solution was that Kelly's parents started screening her calls and not letting Amy talk to her. A few times she hid out over at my house just to force Amy to stop using her as a pawn in these little dramas. I remember distinctly sitting there one night in my room while one of these suicide attempts was going on. It was fucking awful. On one hand, we knew it was just a ploy for attention, but we were still worried that if she didn't get the attention she was after, it would escalate. Kelly needed to be able to have a life of her own, but it's tough because of the potential for a kid that age to have to face down the guilt if things went wrong.
As I recall, the end result was that Amy went away for a while.
odd story really and nothing to do with this case, it just popped into my head when I was reading this
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2005-10-24 09:54:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
filthy is right...why did the hospital send her back?
and why do you say "they" when you speak of one teen? I am lost?!
Submitted by SiskelandFatboy (user info) at 2005-10-24 08:57:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
There are a few things I don't do, first thing in the morning.
Drink
Think
Debate
I will check back and chime in after while. Ok?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-10-24 08:35:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Life is hard. If we tried to actually care for every kid that got sad and talked about killing themselves then every single kid would have to go through counseling.
Communal sex is the answer, I mean it practically already is the answer for everyone as it is. Feeling lonely? Go out and have sex with someone warm and yummy. Job done.
It's only the crappy people who are bad at seduction (like me, but then I am half caste) who get sad. More of teh hugging and teh gentle fondling of teh genitals is required.
Submitted by Compulsory (user info) at 2005-10-24 08:17:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think it's something that probably happens more often than is really noted. Teenages tend to be dramatic because they have loads of hormones pumping through them. Do they want attention? Maybe. Are kids attempting suicide because they think it'll make someone finally take note of them? Of course. Does that mean it's not serious? Not at all. If a kid has been driven to even contmeplate something like that, there's a problem that needs to be addressed; more than just sticking the kid in three counseling sessions. Check out the whole family.
I think that the mother in this case should be investigated. However, I think the father should have made more than his feeble attempt to convince the doctor to keep her in the hospital. He is just as guilty as the mother, in my opinion. If he knew something was wrong and just sat back or made some lame comments and stayed out of it, he's almost more guilty than the mother. He was a parent, too, he could have taken her away from the mother, contacted the CPA or any number of things. Put them both away.
Submitted by missflibble (user info) at 2005-10-24 07:45:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
much agreement from this side of the pond. well, from my little office CWID(complete-with-ikea-desk) at any rate.
anybody check the mother's mental state? not just what she puts on for other, but her REAL state. 'cos that's what caused my attempt... a schizoid manic depressive mother.
alcohol, range of pills but made the non-fatal mistake of sitting up to take them. when I passed out I didn't fall over 'cos of the crap on my bed around me so when I vomited in my sleep I didn't choke on the bastard.
happy now though, I moved out and my mum's well medicated.
but maybe the girl had the same mother problem, violence? mental abuse? you just don't know.
Submitted by Xcuses (user info) at 2005-10-24 06:24:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:31:15 (#)
Ranking: 0
I guess I'm just sickened that nobody wants to look into the matter. It's like they just shrugged and said 'oh well.'
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I think people get immune to these situations since they occur so often
Submitted by ozzy (user info) at 2005-10-24 05:02:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't agree with your point of view , but this was fairly well written.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2005-10-24 04:44:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This is a very sad thing to think about on a monday morning. It's always worse hearing about girls that kill themselves, when a boy kills himself you just think 'one less toerag on the streets' but when a girl kills themself you think 'how tragic, a gentle rose drowned in the awfulness of life'.
You want to think that that girl would have gone on to be ok, that they'd have found someone and lived a beautiful life with someone loving and caring. They wouldn't have though. They'd have been disadvantaged.
Don't get me wrong, there is a chance it could work out and work out better than most people realise life can turn out. After all there are genuinly loving and compassionate people out there, people who need to give and care and be there for someone. Most likely though she'd have ended up like Shandy's sister or some other lunacy. I think we probably just want someone vulnerable to care for in life and so we put the face of how ideal lover/child/future on the face of the victim. I don't know why.
We certainly never do it with boys. Which is odd.
Anyway, because of all that it's very hard to maintain emotional distance (as you've found) but if we do not remain detached and assume the worse we can end up making all sorts of misery. Having good intentions isn't enough to allow cavalier placing of blame.
It would seem that some form of investigation would be in order, although in a situation like this you can forgive the authorities for being afraid to delve. It doesn't look good for the hapless fellow who said nothing was wrong. Still, we all make mistakes and this post shows the large feeling that no-one really likes a miserable cunt anyway so surely if worst comes to worst we can all shrug our collective shoulders and say "ho hum, nevermind eh?".
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2005-10-24 04:01:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ultimately, the kid is dead. It's tragic but it happens - this is the world we've made. I think your efforts would be better spent preventing it from happening to others (maybe doing something about the checks and balances that take place before someone in such a condition is discharged) than delving into what is likely an extremely complex family situation just so you can punish someone for it.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-10-24 03:41:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
at the same time, you can't win them all.
<ajadedcynic>
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-10-24 03:40:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
good point, you filthy, filthy assistant.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2005-10-24 03:40:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
hold your hospital responsible too, if they didn't start the ball rolling with CPS investigations based on the interviews by the counselors.
side note - the point that your professor brings up about not being able to hold a person accountable for another's mental pathology does not really apply to a person who is the cause of said disorder, does it?
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2005-10-24 03:38:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
How about investigating the counsellor for sending a suicidal child back to somewhere they desperatly didn't want to go, even when they announced their intentions?
If you want to apportion blame for something that is essentially one person's choice, then the hospital has to take some of it.
Submitted by Barnymeinhoff (user info) at 2005-10-24 03:37:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Beautifully written as usual.
I think people should only be allowed to breed on licence.
Untill the reason for the attempt and the child wanting to stay with the father she should have been turned over to the state....unfortunately the world cant function like that in its current social and political state.
anyway, big love to the girl.
Submitted by jeveuxgagner (user info) at 2005-10-24 02:59:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
the child should have been sent home with the father and i can't possibly imagine why she was not.
not only should the mother (and her boyfriend) be investigated but it should be asked why she was sent home with the mother.
Submitted by Snuffleupagus (user info) at 2005-10-24 02:31:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Have you grounds for assuming attention-seeking motives for suicide?
Submitted by MrWillard (user info) at 2005-10-24 01:59:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I can see why you would be angry and upset at this situation. Seeing a suicide, attempted or otherwise, from someone that young is hard to deal with. I do agree that there was something in that child's household that "drove him" to the edge.
However, the kid could have done something else. The child could have given specifics as to why he didn't want to go back, either to the father or the social worker. The child could have ran away from home. The child could have begged and nagged his father until he took the child in. The child could turn homicidal and seek revenge on whatever was going on in his life. Additionally, the father could have grown some balls, manned up, and taken responsibilty for the child.
These things are not what happened...he instead chose to place a gun to his head and end his life. Maybe the parent, or social services, could be investigated, but thats not going to change the psychopathology that existed to cause the suicide to begin with. These parents now have the rest of their lives to deal with whatever they did, or didn't do, to drive this person to end their life. Hopefully the guilt will eat them alive.
Submitted by The_Last_Prophet (user info) at 2005-10-24 01:58:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-10-24 01:53:39 (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:05:38 (#)
Ranking: 1
You are assuming too much here.
You cannot presume to know what was happening in this childs life.
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I'd have to agree. Do we know if that child had any mental imbalances?
And where did this child get a gun??
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Good point about the weapon... Where did the child get it? However, if the child killed herself, I think that would qualify as a sure sign for a mental imbalance.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2005-10-24 01:53:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:05:38 (#)
Ranking: 1
You are assuming too much here.
You cannot presume to know what was happening in this childs life.
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I'd have to agree. Do we know if that child had any mental imbalances?
And where did this child get a gun??
Submitted by The_Last_Prophet (user info) at 2005-10-24 01:33:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I usually blog here for humor and am never serious. I believe your story calls for most of us to come down from the clouds and into the real world where real problems like this one exist. My education is in Criminal Justice and we have had arguments similar to this one in the past.
Your arguments are impressive in this case. I would usually say something like "the mother didn't pull the trigger" (or at least it seems). BigMike does have one point in saying that you can not presume what actually went one in the home that the child lived in. I also agree with another individual that said an investigation should (and more than likely will) be performed by local law enforcement agencies. If the investigation shows that there is evidence of foul play at the time of the incident, the mother could very well fall suspect to murder_1 charges.
If her mother has a boyfriend that was abusing the child, or if the mother was abusing the child in any manor herself, there may be evidence to show it. If this could be proven in a court of law, the mother could be convicted of gross child negligence or child abuse. Unfortunately, if there is no sign of foul play that actually caused the death of the child. The mother can not be charged with murder.
I will tell you one thing. I believe the practices of the teen's "caretaker" should be questioned. The individual is paid to make competent decisions on rather or not the teen should be properly cared for and in a sense play judge on where he/she believes the teen should go. The teen was intent on staying with her father Vs her mother. If this would have been allowed and the teens attitude changed for the better after being placed in her father's care, then there would have been no harm in that. The father, aside from how much he loves his daughter or how much he really did care should have stepped up and played the part of a father. He should have told the daughter to go with him. One possible solution for what is now impossible to solve. Hindsight is 20/20 but some flags should have popped up during the evaluation process. Both mother and caretaker should be investigated. Mother for her possible abuse/neglect/possible homicide and caretaker for sheer stupidity (even if this sort of suicide is very rare).
Submitted by Recalcitrant (user info) at 2005-10-24 01:17:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Seems a little late to be asking for an investigation. Why not hold social services accountable?
My girlfriend was fucked by social services for 2 years when she was 15-17. My friend works in social services, so I get an inside view of how archaic & fucked up those departments are.
If a cop pulls over a drunk driver & fails to arrest him, then the driver goes on to kill someone, who do you hold accountable (besides the driver): the bar that served him, or the cop that failed to get him off the road?
Submitted by karpedeem13 (user info) at 2005-10-24 00:43:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with you completely, if the mother had anything at all to do with either provoking or instigating her child's suicide then she should be tried AND convicted... but within the very descriptive letter you wrote (no, i'm not being sarcastic, it was detailed) it never mentioned any maldoings on the mother's part. If at all your find conclusive, or even vague evidence (apart from personal opinion) then I think you definately should press charges, a suicide is nothing to gloss over, especially one concerning a near-fourteen-year-old.
Although, sadly, I dont think you'll get very far with this. Suicides are self-inflicted, so the mother cannot be held fully accountable, despite the child being in her care. But I gotta say, that mother sounds abusive in one form or another...
Submitted by nahnoneofit (user info) at 2005-10-24 00:23:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
after i thought abvout this for a while i decided that the mother shouldnt be held accountable.
whats next, suing your ex boyfriend because he dumped you?
people need to fend for themselves, survival of the physically AND mentally fittest.
Submitted by Leroy_Brown (user info) at 2005-10-24 00:21:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
wtf not reading all that etc.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:31:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I guess I'm just sickened that nobody wants to look into the matter. It's like they just shrugged and said 'oh well.'
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:27:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sure, I think an investigation should be done. Given the circumstances - or what we know of them - it seems only fair. And certainly justified.
I just don't know what could be done to bring about an investigation if the authorities have already made up their minds.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:25:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
But don't you all think at the very least an investigation would be warranted? For a 13 year old to blow their head off is rare as I said. Usually a teen just exhibits suicidal behavior with non lethal methods. A gunshot to the head is very unusual in this age group. Just the unusual method utilized should call for an investigation.
Submitted by MrSparkle847 (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:24:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Do you know how RARE it is for a young teen to take their own life in that violent of a manner?!...SOMETHING drove that child to do that.
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Hmm. A suicide that is rare...AND he did it because of something? What a totally incredible combination of symptoms!
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:20:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:05:38 (#)
Ranking: 1
You are assuming too much here.
You cannot presume to know what was happening in this childs life.
*******
i have to agree
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:12:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
This is one of those rage-inducing situations where you can't help but feel that the system is completely fucked and flawed, and yet there's nothing that can really be done to improve things.
Short of an investigation - which, as you've mentioned, the authorities are foregoing - there's no way to know exactly what things were like at the mother's place.
And yet, I don't agree that the kid was going to do this one way or the other. Clearly something was up, and something forced the kid's hand. Again.
The father is going to carry this with him for the rest of his life.
The kid's counselor/care team? Maybe. Maybe not.
The mother? God stole her baby from her. Naturally.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:07:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
you have absolutely no clue what happened in the mother's house so you cannot prosecute her for any sort of crime whatsoever.
if you have specific accounts from the child and the father, that is a different story.
but without anything, you have no clue if it was the child, the mother of a combination of both that drove the child to do this.
oh yea, GET AIM!
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:05:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
You are assuming too much here.
You cannot presume to know what was happening in this childs life.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2005-10-23 23:05:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
no, no one knows since the child clammed up. The father said he knew "something" was going on but didn't know what exactly.
The thing is, they're not even planning to investigate. At all. They're just going to write this kid's life off as a waste.
Submitted by PokeyPecker (user info) at 2005-10-23 22:56:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Do you have any clue what was going on in the mother's house? Even the dad didn't know so how can anybody scream for her blood?
That said, no matter what anybody could have done, that kid was already fucked for life.