A Date Which Will Live in Infamy (767 hits)
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Submitted by Cuberat (View user info) at 2005-12-07 12:10:55 EST
"Yesterday, December 7, 1941 — a date which will live in infamy — the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.The United States was at peace with that nation, and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its government and its Emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific."
-President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Address to Congress after the attack on Pearl Harbor (8 December 1941)
Any of you who have read my previous posts and numerous reviews will know that I am a militant liberal and not a flag waving, super-patriotic conservative. With that said I would like to make the following statement.
Today is the 65th Anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The undisputed facts of that event are as follows. Due to a surprise attack on the Pearl Harbor Naval Base on December 7, 2005, 3,581 U.S. military personnel and 103 U.S. civilians were killed or injured. 14 U.S. warships were damaged or destroyed. 343 U.S. aircraft were damaged or destroyed. Prior to this attack, the U.S. and Japan were in negotiations to peacefully resolve the conflict between them and the economic embargo against Japan. No aggressive military action had been taken by the U.S. against Japan.
The Empire of Japan had attacked and invaded parts of China in 1931. Included in this attack were the slaughter of 200,000 Chinese civilians (1937 Nanjing Massacre). The Japanese invaded Vietnam (French Indochina) in 1940. As proof of their imperialistic intentions, the day after attacking Pearl Harbor - December 8, 1941, Japan invaded the Philippines, Hong Kong, Malaya, Borneo, Burma, and Singapore.
I offer all this information in support of my point. It is quite clear that the Japanese attack was aggressive, unprovoked, and completely with the intention of furthering the imperialistic aims of the Japanese. However as of 2005, 65 years after the attack, Japan has not apologized to the United States for the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Furthermore, the population of Japan continues to see the U.S. as the aggressor in WWII, and continues to view the Japanese attacks on the U.S. as the right thing and virtuous thing.
Every August near the anniversaries of the U.S. Nuclear Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there is an outcry both from people within the U.S. as well as Japan and other foreign nations for an official U.S. apology for these bombings.
Where is our apology?
We were NOT the aggressors. We were trying to deal with a fascist nation who was taking over their neighbors for their own gain. We tried to do this peacefully and diplomatically, going great lengths to try to avoid going to war with Japan. What we got was a surprise attack on U.S. territory.
Why is there not more outcry for Japan to apologize to the U.S.? Why is there not more outcry to set the record straight? Where is the justice for the sailors who are forever entombed under the Pacific?
Americans, no matter their political beliefs or affiliation, should be able to come together on this issue. It is a matter of history and justice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pearl_Harbor
http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/pearlharbor/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
http://www.dannen.com/decision/index.html
http://www.worldwar-2.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_II
User Reviews
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-12-08 11:55:44 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
The more I read this post, the stupideer it gets.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2005-12-08 11:51:09 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2005-12-08 09:51:44 (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 Republicans Die
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Hey Im not even american, and in the last election I voted for the Liberal Democrats, thats the third party over here and its pretty big for a 3rd party, won 22% of the vote.
-2 for suggesting that there is no need to apologise for using nuclear weapons against civilians
Submitted by XII (user info) at 2005-12-08 02:22:38 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
everyone should let it go unless they were responsible. if they were responsible they should apologise and then shut the hell up.
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2005-12-07 23:03:24 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
You do know that America placed oil embargoes on the Japanese before Pearl Harbor don't you?
You do realise that Japan was forced into a position that it either had to break this embargo (by defeating America in the Pacific) or lose it's wars in China?
Oh, you didn't! You had absolutely no idea?
In that case get your story straight before you comment: -2 Die.
Submitted by ConorJS (user info) at 2005-12-07 21:52:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Was it over when the... the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it's not over 'til we say it's over!"
Japan is a bunch of whiney bitches who hate white people. No fucking lie, the most overtly racist society on the face of this earth is in Japan. You know that scrawny white kid back in high school who loved Japan with all of his heart (and penis)? You know, the one who wanted to be a samurai and considered themself to be a good-to-excellent swordsman? Yeah! Him! Well, the Japanese would just hate him for being white.
Submitted by precision (user info) at 2005-12-07 21:37:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
he undisputed facts of that event are as follows. Due to a surprise attack on the Pearl Harbor Naval Base on December 7, 2005, <snip>
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that should be 1941... but a +1 for the effort anyway
Submitted by b0bbieb0b (user info) at 2005-12-07 14:30:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No need for apologies, but let's at least get the history correct.
As usual, the whiniest bastards on how awful America is/was are always white, upper middle class, college educated, euro-American, beneficiaries of those who actually had the balls to do what was necessary.
Submitted by Dead_0hi0_Sky (user info) at 2005-12-07 13:32:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
but why did the Iraqis bomb pearl harbor???
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2005-12-07 13:27:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
+1 for the effort.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2005-12-07 13:17:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
yeah fuck that. i don't want an apology, not their fault. i refuse to give one, not my fault. didn't want to apologize for slavery either. i wasn't there. really, who gives a shit at this point? in about 10-20 years when all the ww2 veterans are dead, most likely no one else will really care either.
Submitted by G-prime (user info) at 2005-12-07 13:09:56 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
http://www.ubersite.com/m/80574
Submitted by MyOwnLittleWorld (user info) at 2005-12-07 13:03:35 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Fool
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Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:55:11 (#)
Ranking: 2
I am frustrated everytime foreign powers get angry at the United States for dropping the bomb on Japan. World War 2 had some of the best military leaders of modern history, and you can bet that they had more information about what EXACTLY would happen then we do now. Everything we say now has a small amount of speculation. If they felt it was neccessary to drop the bombs, then I say so be it. The other thing is that, as stated below, dropping the bombs saved Japan. One of the things that island hoping proved was, to win an island from the Japanese, the fighting was so intense literally EVERYTHING was destroyed. Huge tropical island forests were completely leveled in intense ground fighting that was for every inch of land. Japan would have thrown all of her sons and fathers at the U.S. army and it would not have been enough. Japan would have had such high casualties it's population would take many many generations to recover.
They should feel lucky we sparred them. If anything they should be angry at the World War 2 Japanese leaders for not surrendering immediately when the first bomb was dropped.
Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:55:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I am frustrated everytime foreign powers get angry at the United States for dropping the bomb on Japan. World War 2 had some of the best military leaders of modern history, and you can bet that they had more information about what EXACTLY would happen then we do now. Everything we say now has a small amount of speculation. If they felt it was neccessary to drop the bombs, then I say so be it. The other thing is that, as stated below, dropping the bombs saved Japan. One of the things that island hoping proved was, to win an island from the Japanese, the fighting was so intense literally EVERYTHING was destroyed. Huge tropical island forests were completely leveled in intense ground fighting that was for every inch of land. Japan would have thrown all of her sons and fathers at the U.S. army and it would not have been enough. Japan would have had such high casualties it's population would take many many generations to recover.
They should feel lucky we sparred them. If anything they should be angry at the World War 2 Japanese leaders for not surrendering immediately when the first bomb was dropped.
Submitted by Dervel (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:36:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't want to nit pick but I don't think the Imperial Japanese were actually fascists either.
One has heard from time to time round the Gentlemens Club, that ol' FDR knew that Japan were planning an attack on Pearl Harbour and in fact encouraged it by sailing his little boats round Japanese waters and by enforcing a trade embargo. Probably all hear-say though.
I very much doubt Freddy would pull the wool other his countries eyes just so he could help his European allies and boost the crippled US economy. Course he wouldnt, he was a good egg. Bless his polio ridden socks.
Submitted by Wrightcopy (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:31:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:23:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
It's actually the 64th anniversary of Pearl Harbor.
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Glad someone else noticed that.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:29:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
you'll get some good heat off this - no apology is needed from either side, and here's why:
The TRUTH of the matter is that having atomic bombs dropped on them was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO JAPAN IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY.
Most people are quick to point to the use of nuclear weapons in war by the United States as some kind of 'proof' that the USA is evil - but it was war, a war that HAD to be won.
Attempting to analyze the situation of sixty years ago with the mores of today is foolhardy at best.
In the absence of atomic weaponry, the United States had drawn up an invasion plan of the southernmost main island Shikoku 'Operation Coronet', to be carried out June 1st 1946.
It was to take at least 6 months of constant American buildup on Okinawa to get the requisite landing craft, troop ships, and air-support carriers to launch the assault. TWICE the manpower of D-Day was planned for. Once Shikoku was conquered, there was to be another amphibious assault, this time near the Isu Peninsula (which forms the eastern half of Tokyo Bay). From there, the final assault would stretch across the Kanto Plain in a last direct attack on Tokyo.
Now, the Japanese would not idly stand by as the Americans defiled their land by their presence. As witnessed on Okinawa, ordinary citizens took up sharpened sticks (some freely, some forced at gunpoint by the Kempetai) and attacked the Americans. After being mowed down, the Japanese (after being told by their government that Americans were killer demons, and rapists) committed suicide by the hundreds by throwing their children off cliffs, and jumping afterwards. This would have been writ on a VASTER scale had there been an American invasion of the Home Islands.
In addition, Americans were estimated to have had to suffer 1 million casualties.
Do you really believe, for _one_ second, that if the Americans had lost that many soldiers, that we would have been so GENEROUS as to rebuild their country with the Marshall Plan?? NO. We would have kept the Japans as a territory, a burned-out husk of a semi-feudal state.
Lastly, recall that the Soviet Union declared war on Japan after the tide had turned irrevocably against the Japanese. The Russians were smarting after their defeat during the Russo-Japanese War of 1905, and wanted revenge (and more territory). So, you would have had a similar situation to that of Germany, or better yet, Korea. A Northern, communist Japan, and a Southern, capitalist Japan, with a divided Tokyo, like Berlin.
So, let us consider the Japan that could have been - millions upon millions dead, and with no access to natural resources (e.g. oil), they would have reverted to a pre-industrial state. Large portions of their territory would be claimed, if not outright annexed by the Soviets, and they would have suffered Communist enslavement as Germany did for 45 years and North Korea does to this day.
And the Japan of today - 110 million strong, highly educated, the highest longevity rates of humankind, a prosperous and well-respected economic powerhouse, and lastly a people so convinced of the horrors of war that their Constitution forbids it...
So which was better, killing 145,000 people with two bombs, or killing an entire society through years of napalm, bayonets, and suicide?
Submitted by FATMANTPK (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:28:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by ozzy (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:23:22 (#)
Ranking: -2
Just who the fuck is it that you want to apologise?
Is it the current Japanese government, the majority of whom were probably 10 years old when the bombs took place?
Or the Japanese civilian population, who had no say in the fact that the attacks were launched.
An apology now would be as empty and meaningless as a one night stand with Jenna Jameson, dipshit.
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I don't think our countries need to be caught up in apologies for events that very few, if any, of those responsible are still alive.
It is similar to the apologies for slavery. Yes, it was government endorsed, but we have corrected that part (Although there are still some ignorant people that think it was a good idea).
Dropping the bombs on Japan was a necessary evil. Our government was looking for a swift way to end the war, and we found it before Japan did.
I say neither one of us apologize, and we just go on with life. If you dwell on the past, it just makes it harder to get along. Lets not forget it, and lets learn from it, but not dwell on it
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:23:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
It's actually the 64th anniversary of Pearl Harbor.
Submitted by ubetidid (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:23:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
well said
Submitted by ozzy (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:23:22 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Just who the fuck is it that you want to apologise?
Is it the current Japanese government, the majority of whom were probably 10 years old when the bombs took place?
Or the Japanese civilian population, who had no say in the fact that the attacks were launched.
An apology now would be as empty and meaningless as a one night stand with Jenna Jameson, dipshit.
Submitted by Dervel (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:22:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Would hate to open a can of worms here, but one has to ask, how exactly was it a surprise attack?
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:20:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I forgot to cite an additional source I used:
http://www.mail-archive.com/fukuzawa.at.ucsd.edu/thrd59.html#01863
Thanks.
Submitted by GodChicken (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:19:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
fuck the apologies. War is a terrible thing, and a terrible word. The only people who any of us owe an apology to are the ones who are flash-burned into the concrete, or lie beneath simple white headstones..
They can't say whether they forgive us or not.
Submitted by el_em_en_oh (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:19:01 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Needs more Mr.Miyagi
Submitted by sinna (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:18:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You're both as bad as each other. Now play nicely or I'll bang your heads together!
Submitted by Nellypaal (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:15:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
All's fair in love and WAR
Submitted by lessthanfour (user info) at 2005-12-07 12:11:58 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
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