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US PetroDollars, The Bomb Vs The Euro (1012 hits)

Category: Politics -> Iraq

Rating: -0.04 on 45 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Labels:

Submitted by Belle (View user info) at 2006-01-17 10:03:58 EST


First off, I will apologise, as I imagine most of you all know about this stuff...

But I've just only heard... and even though I "got" that the war was about oil - I didn't really "get it"... and whats more, I've got a load of actual real work to do, so... well - if this doesn't make sense then thats because I was in a rush.

So - Is it true?

Did we go to war because the whole of the US's economy is based on Petrodollars?

It's true that Saddam decided to sell his oil in Euros, and therefore making the US and UK economies a little bit wobbly...

I know its true that one of the first things that Bush did when he got rid of Saddam was to switch oil trading in Iraq back to the Dollar - an act, which in effect wiped out somewhere between 15% and 20% of profits as the Euro is slightly stronger than the almighty Dollar.

Hmmm...

Is it true that Iran has also declared that they will be trading oil in Euros from 2006? What about the rumours that because of the extra profit, some countries are thinking about doing just that...

Is it true that most Americans don't actually understand that there are so many dollars in circulation, that if there was a bump in the exchanges in New York - you'd all be paying 3.5 million for a hot dog?

Inflation would go through the roof, and the knock on would be that China would probably end up the new super power. (Sound like a prophecy coming true to anyone else?).

I gained all this knowledge from a conspiracy theory programme the other night. It was chilling.

Now, I'm one for conspiracy theories - I LOVE them... but this one, this just makes me sad.

You see, I kinda like my way of life, and I don't really want to end up homeless because I can't afford my mortgage, because the interest rates are stupidly high... I don't want banks closing, and jobs being lost left right and centre... another great depression.

I don't really want to live through a depression - which kind of makes me think that maybe, we were right to head on into Iraq.

That said, they still lied, and I don't like that... I might have been more supportive if someone had just told me the truth... I wasn't actually that bothered before hand - it was only the fight for "freedom" being rammed down my throat at every opportunity that made me think about the human plight in a regime like Saddam's... but then, that had been going on for years, and nobody seemed to give a shit. They certainly don't seem to be worrying about any of the other dictators, and they've near enough forgotten about the "real" enemy - old Bin Laden.

I know this is just a theory, but (especially with Iran next on the hit list), it all makes perfect sense... It kind of gives me a chill down my spine, because it sort of rings true.

There is fuck all I can do about it - but hey, at least if this IS the reason, then the truth should be told!

Anyway, I know I've explained it all about as well as a ghey man could whilst he was sucking the cock, so I've stolen someone elses work below:

Petrodollar Warfare: Dollars, Euros and the Upcoming Iranian Oil Bourse

Contemporary warfare has traditionally involved underlying conflicts regarding economics and resources. Today these intertwined conflicts also involve international currencies, and thus increased complexity. Current geopolitical tensions between the United States and Iran extend beyond the publicly stated concerns regarding Iran's nuclear intentions, and likely include a proposed Iranian "petroeuro" system for oil trade.

Similar to the Iraq war, military operations against Iran relate to the macroeconomics of 'petrodollar recycling' and the unpublicized but real challenge to U.S. dollar supremacy from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency.

... Saddam Hussein sealed his fate when he announced in September 2000 that Iraq was no longer going to accept dollars for oil being sold under the UN's Oil-for-Food program, and decided to switch to the euro as Iraq's oil export currency.

... original pre-war hypothesis was validated in a Financial Times article dated June 5, 2003, which confirmed Iraqi oil sales returning to the international markets were once again denominated in U.S. dollars - not euros.

It is now obvious the invasion of Iraq had less to do with any threat from Saddam's long-gone WMD program and certainly less to do to do with fighting International terrorism than it has to do with gaining strategic control over Iraq's hydrocarbon reserves and in doing so maintain the U.S. dollar as the monopoly currency for the critical international oil market.

Iran is about to commit a far greater "offense" than Saddam Hussein's conversion to the euro for Iraq's oil exports in the fall of 2000. Beginning in March 2006, the Tehran government has plans to begin competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a euro-based international oil-trading mechanism.

The proposed Iranian oil bourse signifies that without some sort of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project of U.S. global domination, Tehran's objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on dollar supremacy in the crucial international oil market.

(This article has been completely lifted from http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread162619/pg1)


More Reading available here:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html

http://codshit.blogspot.com/archives/2005_03_20_codshit_archive.html

http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/nunan.htm

http://rainforestinfo.org.au/Peace/students.htm

(Sorry, you're only getting four links - I couldn't be bothered to wade through a ton of shit to find them all for you).


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User Reviews


Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-01-18 17:09:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

A collapse in the dollar would lead to a collapse of pretty much every single economy in the world.

......right.....

Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-01-18 16:53:25 EST (#)
Ranking: -1

Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2006-01-17 20:58:47 (#)
Ranking: -2

Three points

1.)You need to read up on basic economics. There's a better chance of a leprechaun jumping out of my Luck Charms box then the US dollar suddenly collapsing in a covertly rehearsed internationally conspiracy to bring the country to it's knees. A collapse in the dollar would lead to a collapse of pretty much every single economy in the world.

Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2006-01-17 20:58:47 EST (#)
Ranking: -2

Three points

1.)You need to read up on basic economics. There's a better chance of a leprechaun jumping out of my Luck Charms box then the US dollar suddenly collapsing in a covertly rehearsed internationally conspiracy to bring the country to it's knees. A collapse in the dollar would lead to a collapse of pretty much every single economy in the world.

2.)Secondly as mentioned earlier, oil prices are set internationally so you would be getting the same price no matter if it was bought in silver soverigns, dollars, yen, or Costa Rican colones.

3.)Lastly, you refer to fall of 2000 and the great shift in Iraqi currency faith. The Euro came out in the late of the previous year, and they never printed money widely until the following year. Is it not conceivable that Saddam changed currency's simply for political reasons? A new currency that was conceived for the sole purpose of competing with the dollar is a mighty fine way of sticking your proverbial tounge at those you see as a thorn in your side.

That is all for now..

Submitted by Acarnis (user info) at 2006-01-17 15:21:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

China owns like 10% of the US, which is like $1 trillion from our $10 trillion GDP. We've also been borrowing a whole ton from them in the past year. If anyone know the "interdependence theory" from politcal science, then they'd realize why China wouldn't exactly jump the gun in swallowing the US. The US represents a major investment and economic trade for China.

Maybe that's a reason for the gun-ho spending of the current Bush administration?

Submitted by seasofseems (user info) at 2006-01-17 13:29:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

'Poop...'

Hmmmm...

Compelling argument.

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 13:27:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by seasofseems (user info) at 2006-01-17 13:19:32 (#)
Ranking: 2

What you, and many like you seem to be missing here is that China and Russia DO buy a large amount of oil from Iran, and any strain on the relations between the US/EU and China/Russia could have disasterous effects. And if, God fobid, this comes to military intervention, we could be in for a conflict that would pale all other previous wars by comparison.

That's my take on it.

The way I see it, unless the American voters start making their voices heard and our leadership gets their act together, we're going to be in for the shock of our lives as all we've ever worked for comes crashing down around us.

------------------

Nobody is missing that, or thinks that Russia and China have a different View of Iran than the EU/US. But the "petro dollar" conspiracy here is still poop.

Submitted by seasofseems (user info) at 2006-01-17 13:19:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 2

Submitted by Oxymoron (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:37:22 (#)
Ranking: -2

WOW!!! You actually fell for that nonsense? Yet another poor mind brainwashed by the media. If (and when) we do something about Iran, I can guarantee it will be for their recent nuclear procurement. Not to mention their president's oath to "wipe Israel off the map". I also think that Israel will be the first to launch a pre-emptive strike, considering the stakes are much higher for them than any other country. Also, the U.S. doesn't buy a noticeable amount of oil from Iran, our main suppliers are Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela. Iran's demise will most certainly be caused by their president's lack of tolerance and intelligence.

-------------------

What you, and many like you seem to be missing here is that China and Russia DO buy a large amount of oil from Iran, and any strain on the relations between the US/EU and China/Russia could have disasterous effects. And if, God fobid, this comes to military intervention, we could be in for a conflict that would pale all other previous wars by comparison.

That's my take on it.

The way I see it, unless the American voters start making their voices heard and our leadership gets their act together, we're going to be in for the shock of our lives as all we've ever worked for comes crashing down around us.

Submitted by seasofseems (user info) at 2006-01-17 13:12:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 2

All I can say is 'Batton down the hatches. It's going to be tough weather ahead.'

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:43:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

why is Zol laughing?

Submitted by Oxymoron (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:37:22 EST (#)
Ranking: -2

WOW!!! You actually fell for that nonsense? Yet another poor mind brainwashed by the media. If (and when) we do something about Iran, I can guarantee it will be for their recent nuclear procurement. Not to mention their president's oath to "wipe Israel off the map". I also think that Israel will be the first to launch a pre-emptive strike, considering the stakes are much higher for them than any other country. Also, the U.S. doesn't buy a noticeable amount of oil from Iran, our main suppliers are Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela. Iran's demise will most certainly be caused by their president's lack of tolerance and intelligence.

Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:33:53 EST (#)
Ranking: -1

blah blah blah i have no understanding of economics and am easily swayed by liberal propaganda blah blah blah

Submitted by Zol (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:30:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

WTF? Oil prices were set on international markets. They don't depend on one currency.


ahahhaha, an expert.

Submitted by Smack_Fuck (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:16:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 1

How come you weren't interested in my post on this the other day? http://www.ubersite.com/m/82254

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:06:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:00:28 (#)
Ranking: -2

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:56:56 (#)
Ranking: -2

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:45:59 (#)
Ranking: 0


Thats the whole point!

Because you get about a 20% increase in your profits if you use the Euro - EVERYONE is considering it.
===
WTF? Oil prices were set on international markets. They don't depend on one currency. The U.S. should start buying oil with rubbles, we'd pay 1¢ a gallon, right?

----------------------

I think I might start buying things on ebay with dollars then selling them for Euro's. I will make millions!
===
hahahaha, I had a roomate who bought 20 Euros once and he was like "I got my Euros right here!", acting like Warren Buffett. Even if the Euro really increased, for 20 fucking Euros he could have barely covered the currency conversion fee.

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 12:00:28 EST (#)
Ranking: -2

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:56:56 (#)
Ranking: -2

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:45:59 (#)
Ranking: 0


Thats the whole point!

Because you get about a 20% increase in your profits if you use the Euro - EVERYONE is considering it.
===
WTF? Oil prices were set on international markets. They don't depend on one currency. The U.S. should start buying oil with rubbles, we'd pay 1¢ a gallon, right?

----------------------

I think I might start buying things on ebay with dollars then selling them for Euro's. I will make millions!

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:56:56 EST (#)
Ranking: -2

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:45:59 (#)
Ranking: 0


Thats the whole point!

Because you get about a 20% increase in your profits if you use the Euro - EVERYONE is considering it.
===
WTF? Oil prices were set on international markets. They don't depend on one currency. The U.S. should start buying oil with rubbles, we'd pay 1¢ a gallon, right?

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:51:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:45:59 (#)
Ranking: 0


Thats the whole point!

Because you get about a 20% increase in your profits if you use the Euro - EVERYONE is considering it.

Fuck, I'd consider it.

----------------

What?!?!

I am guessing you don't have a strong back ground in econ.

Switching to Euro will have no effect on profits.

Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:48:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

really? it doesn't show at all. do you own any Will Young albums?

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:47:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 1

19 Caul.

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:45:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Plus, how many other countries do you think are going to start trading with Euro's with Iran? It is one country, yeah they are a large oil producer, but not even in the top three (I think, they may be third now, I stopped following it when I got out of the oil business), saudi, kuwait etc are all still going to use the dollar.

----

Thats the whole point!

Because you get about a 20% increase in your profits if you use the Euro - EVERYONE is considering it.

Fuck, I'd consider it.

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:45:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

What problems? You throw vague assumptions left and right without actually saying anything. India has a population of 1 billion + too, a fast growing economy (much similar to China), an actual political system, highly qualified workers, ressources, good ties with most nations...

Not to be mean, but after reading a few of your theories which shoot in all directions, how old are you?

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:32:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 1

I just can't view India as a real threat. They are so bogged down in their shitty ass problems I feel it will be a LONG time before we have to worry about them. Don't think that means I forget about them, I just see them as a back burner problem. China is the more real threat if there is one.

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:27:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:25:03 (#)
Ranking: 0

on a related note, there must be a LOT more young Chinese men than women. just think about what that implies for society.
===
There are. And as they once pointed out. Most nations stuck in civil war or revolutions display a particularily high percentage of young males. I thought the correlation made sense.

Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:25:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

on a related note, there must be a LOT more young Chinese men than women. just think about what that implies for society. for historical background, look up the Boxer Rebellion.

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:24:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

what the n00b said.

India really is climbing up the ranks and people still look to China like it's the sole threat.

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:23:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 1

Submitted by Gumbo (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:21:51 (#)
Ranking: -2

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:15:47 (#)
Ranking: 1

You say they lack human resources? What are you smoking?
===
The one-child policy that has been enforced for decades now will cause a demographic imbalance between generations within China that will fuck up their work force. That's the scenario envisionned by many, anyway.

We have that problem with the aging of our local population but we have plenty of immigrants to counter that.

----

That may be so, but still my theory stands. All they have to do is repeal the law. And if you talk to Chinese people they tell you it is only really enforced in the cities. In rural areas you can generally get away with multiple kids.

Submitted by Gumbo (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:21:51 EST (#)
Ranking: -2

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:15:47 (#)
Ranking: 1

You say they lack human resources? What are you smoking?
===
The one-child policy that has been enforced for decades now will cause a demographic imbalance between generations within China that will fuck up their work force. That's the scenario envisionned by many, anyway.

We have that problem with the aging of our local population but we have plenty of immigrants to counter that.

Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:19:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

I like Will Young.

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:15:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 1

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:03:26 (#)
Ranking: -2

I have trouble explaining this in english, but let's just say that economies are flexible, my dear.

China becoming the leader of the world is also exagarated. China lacks ressources. Especially human ressources. The one-child policy, environmental issues, political cul-de-sac and much more...most people who know what they're talking about agree that China will be out of breath anytime soon. India is a much greater threat with its highly educated huge population.
----

Just as a compliment to Caul, your english is terrific.

China COULD become a world super power if they stopped fucking around. They have potential. You say they lack human resources? What are you smoking? They are enforcing a birth law that limits population growth. If they want they just repeal the law and sky rocket. True they lack a lot of the resources that the United States and Canada have, making them harder to grow, but don't forget this...

When Attila the Hun beat the Roman Empire, the Huns were what you might say the world super power at the time. Does that mean they were strong than Rome during it's golden age? Of course not. But it is relative. If you have an army of 1000, and I have an army of 10,000, I am far more powerful than you and can bully you around. It doesn't matter if in the past you had an army of 100,000 what matters is the relative size (metaphorically of course, I am really talking about nation wide strength) between us presently. If North America dips into horrible decay, and China stays where it is, they would be the world super power for that time.

Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-01-17 11:03:26 EST (#)
Ranking: -2

You speak as if our entire economy was oil. We have many other assets and I doubt that this overblown theory even makes sense. I don't think the loss of a "petro-dollars" from ONE country would send us back to the Stone Age. It might lower the U.S. currency slighty, which can mean greater exports and smaller trade deficits. For instance, since the Euro has increased, European tourist industry has declined. Another example, as the U.S. dollar decreased, which made the Canadian (the biggest U.S. partner) dollar stronger, Americans goods are much more competitive and Canada cannot flood the U.S. market as easily. I have trouble explaining this in english, but let's just say that economies are flexible, my dear.

China becoming the leader of the world is also exagarated. China lacks ressources. Especially human ressources. The one-child policy, environmental issues, political cul-de-sac and much more...most people who know what they're talking about agree that China will be out of breath anytime soon. India is a much greater threat with its highly educated huge population.

Conspiracy theories target one or two aspects of rather complicated problems and make whoever is gullible enough believe that it's that simple.

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:56:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:43:03 (#)
Ranking: 0

Yeah, you haven't actually really looked into this very carefully, have you?
------------------

Yeah I have.

If every country in the world started doing it, it wouldn't be good for the economy. But cause a depression, I don't think so. For a while it would cause the value of the dollar to drop against the Euro, but that is it.

Plus, how many other countries do you think are going to start trading with Euro's with Iran? It is one country, yeah they are a large oil producer, but not even in the top three (I think, they may be third now, I stopped following it when I got out of the oil business), saudi, kuwait etc are all still going to use the dollar.

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:43:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:37:57 (#)
Ranking: 0

Countries changing from the dollar to the Euro for oil trade would not have a huge impact on the US economy. It would be a blip on the value of the dollar.

---

Yeah, you haven't actually really looked into this very carefully, have you?

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:37:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Countries changing from the dollar to the Euro for oil trade would not have a huge impact on the US economy. It would be a blip on the value of the dollar.

Submitted by Gumbo (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:36:52 EST (#)
Ranking: -2

I prefer lower oil prices to arab lives.
So do you, hypocrite.

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:35:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by Acarnis (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:31:00 (#)
Ranking: 0

http://www.ubersite.com/m/82254

---

Yeah, that was way better than mine... I will swiftly do a post about poohing to take mine off the front page.

It's a very compelling argument though.

You guys (and us along with you) are FUCKED if Iran deals in Euros.

I might have to call Blair and hurry him up with the Euro switch.

Submitted by Acarnis (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:31:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

http://www.ubersite.com/m/82254

Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:25:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Everybody's going to the party, have a real good time.
Dancing in the desert, blowing up the sunshine.

BLAST OFF!!! IT'S PARTY TIME!!! AND WE ALL LIVE IN FASCIST NATION!!!
BLAST OFF!!! IT'S PARTY TIME!!! AND WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU??!?!?

Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:24:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2

Indeed HighVoltage. Good points well made.

Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:23:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:09:49 (#)
Ranking: -1

Somebody already posted about this.


And it is a pretty weak theory.

------------------
Why do you think it's weak (and I had a feeling someone would have posted, but I've only just read about it).

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:23:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 2

Here's a +2 for such a long winded response.

Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:23:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:08:40 (#)
Ranking: 2

USA = Military Industrial Complex.

-----

I'm glad someone pointed this out.

Look many empires go through a few set phases:

Founding
Expansion
Golden Age
Military Bolstering
Decay/stagnation
Collapse

America is in the early stages of military bolstering. The economy is still impressive and not something that is rivaled, but people are catching up and in some areas, surpassing. The only thing that we are really the vanguard of is the military, which can keep a country going because if you can't take my land, I still hold power. If I can shove you out of the way, then I can steal your shit and make myself richer. But alas, that does not last forever. Eventually people sit back on the laurals of time and assume, in this case "Oh I'm American. Therefore I have the best military. I don't need to improvise or learn from my enemies because shit, I won't lose to them!"

Then your military slips and slips. The people who wanted to take your shit now can, in small grabs. Nothing huge. A colony city here, maybe a minor military base there. But eventually they pick away. At a certain point (ROMAN HISTORY BEING DIRECTLY TALKED ABOUT HERE) the government heads say "Holy fuck. Look at that! Barbarians are stealing all of our shit! Send out the tanks and legions!"

But what do you know? Your golden age has passed. When your army meets the enemies, it is defeated. Or it may win a pyrrhic victory. Once they realize that they can no longer defend such a vast empire, they retract to their inner, more important areas. For this case, lets say Rome. They abandon the empire to save the capital.

At this point, they are admitting defeat. It won't be long before the civilization is conquered and crushed.

America is going to be no exception, except for the odd geographical placement, which throws a curve vall into everything. I'm curious to see what happens. We have military might, but our economy is slipping. It is scaring officials, because their power is waning. So they throw the army out there to fix the problem. Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, China, they all mean the same thing. They all represent America's fear of losing everything.

Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:18:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 1

I am rating this from my BlackBerry whilst queueing up for a social security number.

Ever felt really really really white?

Submitted by Barnymeinhoff (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:16:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2

All true sadly.

Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:09:49 EST (#)
Ranking: -1

Somebody already posted about this.


And it is a pretty weak theory.

Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2006-01-17 10:08:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 2

USA = Military Industrial Complex.

No surprises there. Marxist theory will tend to encourage the owners of the means of production to band together and protect one another's interests.


Homer: I'm sorry, Marge, but sometimes I think we're the worst family in
town.

Marge: Maybe we should move to a larger community.

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