And 24 is offensive to Muslims? (2878 hits)
Category: Movies & TVRating: 0.72 on 165 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Indoninja (View user info) at 2006-02-03 11:44:21 EST
ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) - In the most expensive Turkish movie ever made, American soldiers in Iraq crash a wedding and pump a little boy full of lead in front of his mother.
They kill dozens of innocent people with random machine gun fire, shoot the groom in the head, and drag those left alive to Abu Ghraib prison - where a Jewish doctor cuts out their organs, which he sells to rich people in New York, London and Tel Aviv.
"Valley of the Wolves Iraq" - set to open in Turkey on Friday - feeds off the increasingly negative feelings many Turks harbor toward their longtime NATO allies: Americans.
The movie, which reportedly cost some $10 million, is the latest in a new genre of popular culture that demonizes the United States. It comes on the heels of a novel called "Metal Storm" about a war between Turkey and the U.S., which has been a best seller for months.
One recent opinion poll revealed the depth of the hostility in Turkey toward Americans: 53 percent of Turks who responded to the 2005 Pew Global Attitudes survey associated Americans with the word "rude"; 70 percent with "violent"; 68 percent with "greedy"; and 57 percent with "immoral."
Advance tickets are already selling out across Turkey for the film, which has dialogue in Turkish, Arabic, Kurdish and English. In addition to Turkey, the film is set to be shown in more than a dozen other countries - including the United States, Britain, Germany, The Netherlands, Britain, Denmark, Russia, Egypt, Syria and Australia.
The movie's American stars are Billy Zane, who plays a self-professed "peacekeeper sent by God," and Gary Busey as the Jewish-American doctor.
U.S. soldiers have become hate figures in Muslim countries around the world after the unpopular war in Iraq. But here in Turkey, a personal grudge fuels the resentment.
"Valley of the Wolves Iraq" opens with a true story: On July 4, 2003, in Sulaymaniyah, northern Iraq, troops from the U.S. Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade raided and ransacked a Turkish special forces office, threw hoods over the heads of 11 Turkish special forces officers, and held them in custody for more than two days.
The Americans said they had been looking for Iraqi insurgents and unwittingly rounded up the Turks because they were not in uniform. Still, the incident damaged Turkish-U.S. relations and hurt Turkish national pride. Turks traditionally idolize their soldiers; most enthusiastically send their sons off for mandatory military service.
In the movie, one of the Turkish special forces officers commits suicide to save his honor. His farewell letter reaches Polat Alemdar, an elite Turkish intelligence officer who travels to northern Iraq with a small group of men to avenge the humiliation.
There they find a rogue group of U.S. soldiers led by officer Sam William Marshall - played by Zane. In the bloodfest that ensues, the small band of Turks bonds with the people of Iraq and eventually ends American atrocities there, killing Zane and his men in the final scene.
"The scenario is great," Istanbul Mayor Kadir Topbas told The Associated Press after the film was shown at a posh opening gala Tuesday night. "It was very successful. ... a soldier's honor must never be damaged."
But Topbas and other Turks at the premiere weren't too concerned about how the movie would be perceived in the United States.
"There isn't going to be a war over this," said Nefise Karatay, a Turkish model lounging on a sofa after the premiere. "Everyone knows that Americans have a good side. That's not what this is about."
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What the fuck is this?
Remember in X-men two when Muslims objected because it looked like the bad guy had Arabic writing on his ring?
If you make a movie even hinting at Arabs behaving badly you have the whole Arab world up in arms.
Here they think it is fair to depict Americans in the most atrocious light, and back them up with Jewish organ stealing Doctors?
They think a bloodbath of American Solders is justified because 11 were held prisoner for 2 days?
When I get home tonight I am going to get on Amazon and order 10 Korans to shit/piss/jerk off on.
And Caul, before you go apeshit and say I am just a crazy patriotic American with double standards. I will admit it pisses me off, but mostly because if we did the same media worldwide would be up in arms.
And even though I am pissed I am not going to threaten to kidnap Turkish people, I am not going to say we should cut off diplomatic relations with them, I am not going to boycott them, I am not trying to say they should not be allowed to make the movie, I am just saying fuck them.
They have no right to condemn nations for a single cartoon if they embrace movies like this. I realize that the people responsible for this movie aren't the same people protesting in the street (although they probably are upset about the cartoon), but those people protesting will be lining up in droves to see this.
User Reviews
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-14 07:50:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Other scenes show ruthless marines killing Iraqis and soldiers mistreating inmates at Abu Ghraib prison. A Jewish-American doctor, played by Gary Busey, is shown as shipping inmates' organs to New York, London and Israel. All these, according to the screenwriter, Bahadir Ozdener, were inspired by real events."-
This doesn't seem like just a movie if they are saying an organ harvesting conspiracy is based on real events.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/13/news/journal.php
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-07 14:38:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I suspect that statement may be about why there is a sudden urge for everyone to reprint them over and over.
Or I am being logical.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-07 13:02:53 EST (#)
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Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-07 12:46:21 (#)
Ranking: 0
So let me get this right. Hamas won the elections, so the jews went back in time and supplied comics to the Danish newspaper in September as retaliation?
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Makes sense to me.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-07 12:46:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-07 12:46:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Want a laugh?
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3641251.html
From that article:
The caricatures amounted to a "conspiracy by Zionists who were angry because of the victory of Hamas," he said, referring to the Palestinian militant group that won a surprise landslide victory in last month's elections.
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So let me get this right. Hamas won the elections, so the jews went back in time and supplied comics to the Danish newspaper in September as retaliation?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-07 11:16:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Isn't it great that all we have to do is draw cartoons and the middle east will plunge into chaos? Maybe if we build statues of Mahommet and pee on them they will torch their own infrastructure.
That's like the easiest war ever. :-)
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-07 07:30:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-02-06 16:21:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
i disagree that 24 is very different to the turk movie, though. true, the audience of 24 might not be rioting in the street, but they are getting a strong message that clothheads are evil (to the point of murdering their own children for the good of the holy war) and this presumably helps them accept/approve the military aggression of their government
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Wasn't it just one season of 24 that dealt with muslims? And wasn't it only a few muslims, not a massive conspiracy that all the muslims shown were involved with?
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-02-06 16:40:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
also, presumably there are plenty of turks who find this sort of film revolting, just as there are plenth of seppos who find 24 revolting
having said all that, i rather enjoyed 24 and definitely will watch this turkish film
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-02-06 16:21:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"I have never said this movie should not be allowed to get made, I am just saying anyone who would watch this has no right to complain over cartoons they don't like."
i agree with that
i disagree that 24 is very different to the turk movie, though. true, the audience of 24 might not be rioting in the street, but they are getting a strong message that clothheads are evil (to the point of murdering their own children for the good of the holy war) and this presumably helps them accept/approve the military aggression of their government
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-02-06 12:27:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Its being shown in Britian twice?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-02-06 11:24:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i still say we turn the middle east into a big huge glass bowl. i wonder exactly how many megatons it would take to do that.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-06 08:15:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-02-06 04:53:12 (#)
Ranking: 0
you mentioned 24 yourself, and from what i saw it seemed pretty similar to this turkish movie.
the clotheads in 24 were busy eating their own children weren't they, or at least murdering them
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I see a pretty stark difference between this movie and 24. Muslims are not always the bad guy, them being muslim is not central to the plot, a muslim capturing someone for two days is not call for a "blood bath", etc
But that is kind of a side argument. The people who watch 24 are not burning fucking embassies over a cartoon. I have never said this movie should not be allowed to get made, I am just saying anyone who would watch this has no right to complain over cartoons they don't like.
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-02-06 04:53:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
you mentioned 24 yourself, and from what i saw it seemed pretty similar to this turkish movie.
the clotheads in 24 were busy eating their own children weren't they, or at least murdering them
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2006-02-06 00:16:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Can you imagine what would happen if hollywood made a movie like that with the roles reversed?
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2006-02-06 00:14:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I think the reaction to this cartoon is going to convert a lot of left wing people over to 'What the fuck is wrong with these people' mode.
Submitted by jimmiss (user info) at 2006-02-06 00:14:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm a canadian and I'm pretty damn left wing. I think religeon is nearly totally evil, and the war in iraq is just aweful. But I couldn't agree with you more about this. I just don't get it anymore. Why do the muslims get so pissed off about this stuff? Well, I guess it all comes back to religeos fundamentalism. Which is why the left is so afraid of the right now a days, when you mix religeon with politics you are playing with fire.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-05 15:03:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'd like to see some photos of anti-jewish cartoons printed in newspapers throughout the middle east (which happens). There is no excuse for their behavior... they are hypocritical nutcases.
Submitted by Sassmasterr (user info) at 2006-02-05 14:36:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
fuck em.
bastards.
Submitted by AlwaysAnEagle (user info) at 2006-02-05 08:02:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay...maybe everyone is caught up in the politics of it all, which really doesn't matter worth a damn until people make a stink about it - yes it sucks, but we've made sucky movies too in the exact same manner - but I think the best part is...Gary Busey.
Do you get how nuts that dude is? And he's playing a Jewish doctor?
FanTAStic.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-02-04 22:29:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 12:02:45 (#)
Ranking: 0
I would be interested in seeing it, but only a bootleg.
And have you seen movies from Turkey? Don't get your hopes up nothing they make could be called "ace". Despite the description I would be suprised if there isn't a love story, and a few musical numbers with "habibi" repeated about a million times."
bahahahahahahaha
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2006-02-04 20:55:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:32:55 (#)
Ranking: -2
if a Muslim walked up to you and gave you a thousand dollars you'd find a way to have a problem with it
there is nothing NOTHING wrong with some douches in Turkey making a movie about anything, at all, ever, period
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It's not the movie or the message that's the problem (although I do see a problem with outright lies in the movie).
The problem is with the repercussions of that movie and the double-standards of these fellas. These guys can create this movie (fair enough, although i hate them for it) but then call for the beheadings of Danes because they had the audacity to draw half a dozen pictures of Mohammed.
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2006-02-04 19:45:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Bloody Moslems. I've had it up to here with all of them.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2006-02-04 14:31:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 12:07:39 (#)
Ranking: 1
Volt, take Teeph's advice. Watch Rambo III. Hell, watch any Chuck Norris/Charles Bronson/Rambo/mega-budget war movie. Even psuedo-authentic movies like Black Hawk Down. Americans are always knights in shining armor, risking all to be heroes worldwide, while their enemies are cut-and-dry evil. Because that is the target audience's viewpoint.
Now show one of those movies in the "villain's" home country. You'll get the same outrage. Welcome to the other side of the coin. I understand that Americans don't want to be thought of that way, but it happens. Our military has bombed and attacked wedding parties (I recall one incident in Afghanistan) and we did have that little problem of atrocities at Abu Ghraib.
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agreed.
I don't see the tension between to two sides getting any less
anytime soon. Neither side is willing to back down before things blow.
As of this morning they are setting embassies ablaze over the danish
caricature ordeal. Will there be retaliation from the us and or
europe creating a cycle of the tensions? most likely.
Submitted by MrSparkle847 (user info) at 2006-02-04 13:14:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Contrary to popular American beliefs, the French are a pretty proud nation.
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Oh, we know.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-04 12:55:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by G-prime (user info) at 2006-02-04 12:48:39 (#)
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"A hundred years ago they were out in the desert cutting each others heads off with swords and that's exactly where they'll be in another hundred."
Or something like that. I'm not worried about Islam. Fuck em, fight em, it's all the same.
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Seriously? India has nukes, Pakistan (a muslim nation) has nukes, look at them a hundred years ago.
I don't know, I hope you are right.
Submitted by G-prime (user info) at 2006-02-04 12:48:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"A hundred years ago they were out in the desert cutting each others heads off with swords and that's exactly where they'll be in another hundred."
Or something like that. I'm not worried about Islam. Fuck em, fight em, it's all the same.
Submitted by jeveuxgagner (user info) at 2006-02-04 06:45:26 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
- 1 BECAUSE you only wrote a tenth of it.
And because i want to see that movie.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-04 01:47:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-04 00:17:08 (#)
Ranking: 0
Are you afraid of your own shadow? "Mommy, the muslims are coming :~("
Contrary to popular American beliefs, the French are a pretty proud nation. As muslim influence grows, more and more french people shift to the right. Jean-Marie Le Pen made it to the second round last time and the man that will be president, Sarkozy, is far from soft. Whatever happens, the muslims are gonna have a pretty hard time to take over this nation, or any other european countries where nationalism is on a sharp rise. Muslims, the new Jews? Probably.
The only reason the muslims look so "scary" is because of people such as yourself who fear them so fucking much. This is no better than me giving attention to Pat Robertson and the likes then thinking that all americans are nutjobs.
Besides, what do you want to do? Kill them all? I doubt so. Impose complete secularism? You cried for mere fucking words during Christmas, so no.
The only thing we can do is give them nothing but a deaf ear to scream into. Then if they take it one notch, rest assured that our respective governments will make them pay ten fold. It's not like we all have to face Jihadists on a battlefield with a pike...all you have to do is sit in your livingroom and watch the bomb falls. If we have that luxury, I think we're still in pretty good shape so I don't think it's worth wasting our energy.
Basically, what I'm saying is...shift your focus to something worthy (like your economy) instead of concentrating on a bunch of retards that we can send into oblivion anytime we wish. Or stupid none-issues like the War on Christmas.
The more muslims push their luck, the more they will get their ass kicked
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The french are proud, or at least arrogant. I think they will step it up a notch, I hope they will.
I am not saying destroy islam, or it is evil. I am just saying hold them, hold everybody to the same standards.
You can have different standards than me, I can understand that. But I don't understand applying them unequally.
A slightly different angle to look at it, just for a second, indulge me. World power post WWII. World Power in the mid 70's. World power in the Mid 80's, 90's, etc. How many countries have Nuclear weapons? How many countries, that in the previous era were thought of as "mosquitos" are nuclear powers. India, Pakistan, etc. It is a shifting world. I don't sit up at nights worrying about this, I just like to argue on the internet, but I wouldn't completely dismiss large muslim political movements in europe, especially if Turkey gets in the EU. And I wouldn't dismiss the middle east getting more power. Hopefully it is in its death throes as oil runs out, but who knows we could end up with a bunch of North Koreas there.
and I am drunk.
Submitted by RamenNoodle (user info) at 2006-02-04 01:40:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I am conflicted. First I do realize that Hollywood has been making movies that paint other countries in less than stellar lights for years. I also despise Hollywood, who don't so much make those types of movies anymore and would rather just attempt to alienate middle America.
However, I can also see the obvious double standard here. If in todays political climate a Hollywood movie depicted an American Christian John Wayne type hero slaughtering wild eyed Muslims going yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi while holding schimitars the proverbial shit would hit the fan. Even if the studios ran 24 hour a day disclaimers stating that "This movie is not represenative of all Muslims" there would still be all kinds of chaos.
To all you European uberusers heres a bit of advice. Stay away from the pubs and start having good ole fashion heterosexual sex. If not within a few generations most of Europe will be under Islamic law. By then the US will be so fucked up that even we will not be able to go help you guys out.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-04 01:30:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by G-prime (user info) at 2006-02-04 01:10:51 (#)
Ranking: -2
When I get home tonight I am going to get on Amazon and order 10 Korans to shit/piss/jerk off on.
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Aah, the words of the respectful american people we all love, right?
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I can't have a sense of humor when I rant?
They do as much to the American flag all the time.
To every symbol of Judiasm in their papers.
Athiests in America do it worse to christians.
I am just saying you have no right to riot over it, if you do the same thing.
Submitted by G-prime (user info) at 2006-02-04 01:10:51 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
When I get home tonight I am going to get on Amazon and order 10 Korans to shit/piss/jerk off on.
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Aah, the words of the respectful american people we all love, right?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-04 00:17:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:18:29 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:50:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
However it has happened in Canada. Around this summer, muslims demanded the Shariah Law to be instaurated to settle family matters in both Québec and Ontario.
It was rejected and will be until muslims might become a crushing majority I don't see why people like Stabkill are panicking over a isolated groups of douchebags. When these muslim groups tried to force their Shariah on us, the media barely coveraged it. They were basically ignored. These asshole's sole purpose to protest and scream is to have the press listening. Otherwise, what would be the point?
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"Authorities in France are estimating that 20 to 30 percent of the French population under the age of 25 is now Muslim"-
These are more than mosquitos. I am sure most of them are not extremist, but it is a significant voting block. What will it be like in 20 years?
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Are you afraid of your own shadow? "Mommy, the muslims are coming :~("
Contrary to popular American beliefs, the French are a pretty proud nation. As muslim influence grows, more and more french people shift to the right. Jean-Marie Le Pen made it to the second round last time and the man that will be president, Sarkozy, is far from soft. Whatever happens, the muslims are gonna have a pretty hard time to take over this nation, or any other european countries where nationalism is on a sharp rise. Muslims, the new Jews? Probably.
The only reason the muslims look so "scary" is because of people such as yourself who fear them so fucking much. This is no better than me giving attention to Pat Robertson and the likes then thinking that all americans are nutjobs.
Besides, what do you want to do? Kill them all? I doubt so. Impose complete secularism? You cried for mere fucking words during Christmas, so no.
The only thing we can do is give them nothing but a deaf ear to scream into. Then if they take it one notch, rest assured that our respective governments will make them pay ten fold. It's not like we all have to face Jihadists on a battlefield with a pike...all you have to do is sit in your livingroom and watch the bomb falls. If we have that luxury, I think we're still in pretty good shape so I don't think it's worth wasting our energy.
Basically, what I'm saying is...shift your focus to something worthy (like your economy) instead of concentrating on a bunch of retards that we can send into oblivion anytime we wish. Or stupid none-issues like the War on Christmas.
The more muslims push their luck, the more they will get their ass kicked
Submitted by Tyrone_Washington (user info) at 2006-02-03 23:16:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Here's an idea that I'm too lazy to bother writing about, but if some of you find it interesting you can post all about it...
I was watching the news tonight for a change and I noticed the story of the Muslim reaction to the Danish cartoons and I couldn't help but notice a Muslim woman walking by with a sign that said 'Freedom of Speech can go to hell!!!' - paints muslims as peace loving, easy going people right?
It's people like this that piss me off. People at work think ima bust a cap in they's ass every second because some dipshit with a grade 3 education made a rap song about doing drive bys on 'suckas'.
Submitted by Nator (user info) at 2006-02-03 22:19:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Apples and oranges if you ask me. If you keep referring to muslims as an homogenous group of people it's easy to find something hypocritical, but obviously that doesn't make sense. Fucking Billy Zane though, he's just an asshole.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 22:15:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by G-prime (user info) at 2006-02-03 20:47:37 (#)
Ranking: -2
Calisse, j'aimerais trouver ces pages plus tôt, ça va me prendre une demi heure à lire toutes les revues. Ah fuck it. I'm not going to read them all, I read the first half and I say fuck it.
Don't you get it??? It's like you're blind or something! They have double standards! They have double standards! But you don't? Be the better man and walk away from this situation knowing that you learned a little bit more about what the rest of the world thinks of you.
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How do I have double standards? I am not saying they can't make it, I am not going to protest it, and I am certainly not going to threaten to kill people over it.
I am saying they can't go ape shit over fucking comics and celebrate movies like this(yeah I know every country protesting hasn't yet, but I promise they will) and expect to be taken seriously.
I am also pissed that the US won't print this fucking comic because they are afraid of disrespecting anyone.
Where do I have the double standard? People should be able to make any type of movie, comic, or song they want. Weather it has an anti-Muslim, US, vegetarian or whatever bias. It is BS when a group says you can't make fun of our sacred stuff, but makes movies that are 100% BS, or continually produces comics that are much more offensive then Mohammad with a bomb on his head.
Submitted by G-prime (user info) at 2006-02-03 20:47:37 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Calisse, j'aimerais trouver ces pages plus tôt, ça va me prendre une demi heure à lire toutes les revues. Ah fuck it. I'm not going to read them all, I read the first half and I say fuck it.
Don't you get it??? It's like you're blind or something! They have double standards! They have double standards! But you don't? Be the better man and walk away from this situation knowing that you learned a little bit more about what the rest of the world thinks of you.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 20:24:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Libertarians don't demonize gays...that is the RELIGIOUS right-wing extreme folks.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 20:21:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 19:22:58 (#)
Ranking: -2
a truer analogy would be this: Jack McCallum decides to make a movie in which gays are portrayed as abominable miscreants. he announces its release over ubersite and stabkill and his gang of paranoid libertarian militant friends come over to watch. their opinions remain generally the same as before the movie, maybe they get a little angry for a while. I continue to not give a shit.
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You continue to miss my point.
If we continue with this analogy it would be what you mentioned above, except you couldn't make a movie deriding Jack. You couldn't print a comic they wouldn't like because of upsetting their followers in your house.
they would be allowed to make whatever they want, and anything that shows them in a bad light would never be given serious coverage.
That is my problem. That is the double standard I don't like.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 20:17:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:50:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
"so, the point is that there is a problem with anti american sentiment in the muslim world? congratulations on your revelation
the problem with the post is that a) it describes a drop in the bucket of the problems of Islam, so who cares and b) you're trying to fabricate a double standard on the muslims' part, disregarding the inequity in culture and religion between them and us. we have a much lower proportion of extremists around here, so big surprise that there isn't a nationwide movement to draw and quarter the filmmakers. you should expect the muslims to go apeshit, and be proud that most people in our country are above it"
There is a problem with anti american sentiment, and I agree making or not making this movie will have a miniscule effect on it.
I never said we are better than them because we aren't crying out for blood . I am saying we should not walk on egg shells whenever the topic of muslims come up. I am saying they should not expect us to hold everything they see as sacred if they produce much more offensive works regularly. I am saying we will never be able to exist together if we have to hold their beliefs as untouchable in media.
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I thought what you said about muslim and money was meant for me, fine it wasn't.
What about my other response? I never fabricated a double standard in this post, and I never said this movie was the heart of what was wrong with islam today.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 19:30:16 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
"Irrelevance? You are the one who implied I find a problem with everything Muslims do, hence I hate them or have some problem with them as a whole. You make irreverent comments about christians, but any anti-muslim statments you deride as ignorant."
I was talking to stabkill, and I deride what he says because he hasn't said anything different for the duration of his stay at this site. he has dubious extrapolation down to a science, and therefore can take any ridiculous event and through equivocation and presumption, blame liberals/muslims
it'd be like me driving down santa monica blvd and realizing that 'santa' means 'saint' and concluding that right wing christian conservative fascist rednecks are controlling our street signs
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 19:22:58 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Acarnis (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:12:08 (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:32:55 (#)
Ranking: -2
if a Muslim walked up to you and gave you a thousand dollars you'd find a way to have a problem with it
there is nothing NOTHING wrong with some douches in Turkey making a movie about anything, at all, ever, period
Death_Metal_Dude, you've lost this one from being contradicting. The post says that the genre of America-bashing is becoming increasingly popular in Turkey. They are nurturing an irrational cultural hate for another group of people.
I think this 'increasing popularity' is overstated. the target audience already exists.
"I see that as analgous to how homosexuals feel in this country. It, indeed, is the norm to be straight in this nation, and most people are raised to feel that homosexuals are abnormal. The Gay and Lesbian society would do anything to start change the cultural norm in the US. To be honest, I agree. I don't think gays should be labelled unfairly, based on a culture perpetuated by 'close-minded' people."
the analogy stands only on the most basic level: A bashes B. the specifics falsify the analogy. in Turkey we have a minor event that is as significant as the mosquito that Caulaincourt mentioned. here we have a widespread (people voted based on this for christ's sake) issue of civil rights with real inequities and real consequences at which the US, as a nation of civil rights, should be appalled.
a truer analogy would be this: Jack McCallum decides to make a movie in which gays are portrayed as abominable miscreants. he announces its release over ubersite and stabkill and his gang of paranoid libertarian militant friends come over to watch. their opinions remain generally the same as before the movie, maybe they get a little angry for a while. I continue to not give a shit.
Submitted by Yams (user info) at 2006-02-03 19:11:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This piss/shitting on the Quran...tell me more. It seems like a good idea.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 19:03:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:50:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
"despite the plain irrelevence of this, I'll answer: a handful, I went to high school near a town with a large persian population. no weddings though. and I'm tired of you whiny 'open-mindedness' pussies and your pretense. if everyone was open-minded all the time they'd never have any convictions or core beliefs. I was openminded, and it led me to seeing how ridiculous religion is, and now that I make irreverent comments on the internet you're gonna berate me for not being openminded? stupid"
Irrelevance? You are the one who implied I find a problem with everything Muslims do, hence I hate them or have some problem with them as a whole. You make irreverent comments about christians, but any anti-muslim statments you deride as ignorant.
"so, the point is that there is a problem with anti american sentiment in the muslim world? congratulations on your revelation
the problem with the post is that a) it describes a drop in the bucket of the problems of Islam, so who cares and b) you're trying to fabricate a double standard on the muslims' part, disregarding the inequity in culture and religion between them and us. we have a much lower proportion of extremists around here, so big surprise that there isn't a nationwide movement to draw and quarter the filmmakers. you should expect the muslims to go apeshit, and be proud that most people in our country are above it"
There is a problem with anti american sentiment, and I agree making or not making this movie will have a miniscule effect on it.
I never said we are better than them because we aren't crying out for blood . I am saying we should not walk on egg shells whenever the topic of muslims come up. I am saying they should not expect us to hold everything they see as sacred if they produce much more offensive works regularly. I am saying we will never be able to exist together if we have to hold their beliefs as untouchable in media.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:50:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:55:04 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:32:55 (#)
Ranking: -2
if a Muslim walked up to you and gave you a thousand dollars you'd find a way to have a problem with it
there is nothing NOTHING wrong with some douches in Turkey making a movie about anything, at all, ever, period
--------------------
How many muslims do you count as friends? How many muslims have you invited for dinner, or gone to their house for dinner? How many muslim weddings have you been to? I don't hate muslims. You say twice as many offensive things about christians, and somehow youthink you are the openminded one?
despite the plain irrelevence of this, I'll answer: a handful, I went to high school near a town with a large persian population. no weddings though. and I'm tired of you whiny 'open-mindedness' pussies and your pretense. if everyone was open-minded all the time they'd never have any convictions or core beliefs. I was openminded, and it led me to seeing how ridiculous religion is, and now that I make irreverent comments on the internet you're gonna berate me for not being openminded? stupid
"The problem isn't them making the movie. The problem is the people who will be the biggest fan of this movie, the people who this movie was made for, and probably the people who made this movie calling for the death of a comic writer since they find it offensive. "
so, the point is that there is a problem with anti american sentiment in the muslim world? congratulations on your revelation
the problem with the post is that a) it describes a drop in the bucket of the problems of Islam, so who cares and b) you're trying to fabricate a double standard on the muslims' part, disregarding the inequity in culture and religion between them and us. we have a much lower proportion of extremists around here, so big surprise that there isn't a nationwide movement to draw and quarter the filmmakers. you should expect the muslims to go apeshit, and be proud that most people in our country are above it
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:18:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:50:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
However it has happened in Canada. Around this summer, muslims demanded the Shariah Law to be instaurated to settle family matters in both Québec and Ontario.
It was rejected and will be until muslims might become a crushing majority I don't see why people like Stabkill are panicking over a isolated groups of douchebags. When these muslim groups tried to force their Shariah on us, the media barely coveraged it. They were basically ignored. These asshole's sole purpose to protest and scream is to have the press listening. Otherwise, what would be the point?
------------------------------
"Authorities in France are estimating that 20 to 30 percent of the French population under the age of 25 is now Muslim"-
These are more than mosquitos. I am sure most of them are not extremist, but it is a significant voting block. What will it be like in 20 years?
Submitted by Acarnis (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:15:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
"The gay and lesbian society would do anything to change the cultural perception of gays in the US. To be honest, I agree. I don't think gays should be labeled unfairly, based on irrational fear perpetuated by 'close-minded' people."
Yeah, those two sentences were awful.
Submitted by Acarnis (user info) at 2006-02-03 18:12:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:32:55 (#)
Ranking: -2
if a Muslim walked up to you and gave you a thousand dollars you'd find a way to have a problem with it
there is nothing NOTHING wrong with some douches in Turkey making a movie about anything, at all, ever, period
Death_Metal_Dude, you've lost this one from being contradicting. The post says that the genre of America-bashing is becoming increasingly popular in Turkey. They are nurturing an irrational cultural hate for another group of people.
I see that as analgous to how homosexuals feel in this country. It, indeed, is the norm to be straight in this nation, and most people are raised to feel that homosexuals are abnormal. The Gay and Lesbian society would do anything to start change the cultural norm in the US. To be honest, I agree. I don't think gays should be labelled unfairly, based on a culture perpetuated by 'close-minded' people.
Now, no... I don't have any links to your past reviews that would indicate your specific support on this. But I know you're a liberal, and the issue in the above paragraph is something that some conservatives would agree on.
It's good to see that liberals and conservatives agree on a couple other things, though. Your reply contained absolutes, and it accused the other group for 'excessive whining.'
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:55:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:32:55 (#)
Ranking: -2
if a Muslim walked up to you and gave you a thousand dollars you'd find a way to have a problem with it
there is nothing NOTHING wrong with some douches in Turkey making a movie about anything, at all, ever, period
--------------------
How many muslims do you count as friends? How many muslims have you invited for dinner, or gone to their house for dinner? How many muslim weddings have you been to? I don't hate muslims. You say twice as many offensive things about christians, and somehow youthink you are the openminded one?
The problem isn't them making the movie. The problem is the people who will be the biggest fan of this movie, the people who this movie was made for, and probably the people who made this movie calling for the death of a comic writer since they find it offensive.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:46:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/
Tne U.S. State department called these cartoons "offensive" to muslims...meaning, "Will you be my friend?" What a bunch of fuckin' opportunists. They've always been that way... fucking pathetic. What they preach and what they practice are two different things. We stand up for fucking saudi's and pakis, too......the scum of the world that wants to kill us the most.
Here are the people that are offended and their beliefs:
"Whoever defames our prophet should be executed," said Ismail Hassan, 37, a tailor who marched through the pouring rain along with hundreds of others in the West Bank city of Ramallah.
----
HUNDREDS of marchers alone at this one, thousands of marchers on others...and most anyone questioned about this says the same stuff. You excuse makers and ignorant bastards who believe "it is the minority" are living in ignorance.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:32:55 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
if a Muslim walked up to you and gave you a thousand dollars you'd find a way to have a problem with it
there is nothing NOTHING wrong with some douches in Turkey making a movie about anything, at all, ever, period
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 17:29:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:59:49 (#)
Ranking: -2
-2, who cares
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with your thought process let Hitler roll over 1/2 of Europe before doing something about it.
Maybe when your grandchildren are forced to wear burkas and you have to keep your atheist beliefs under a veil of secrecy you'll fully understand.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:53:33 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:13:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
DMD, just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them a free thinker.
If someone is a free thinker, they can see nothing but problems with the religion of Islam and won't make excuses for the behavior of its people like you clowns do.
so are you gonna point me to where I make excuses for Islamic violence, or are you going to shut the fuck up and rethink just how rational your thought process is
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:51:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jacobt26 (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:36:29 (#)
Ranking: 2
24 is offensive to humanity.
That show is fucking retarded
--
i LIKE that show man. quality drama.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:50:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:27:06 (#)
Ranking: 2
But Islam is "misunderstood"!!! Once their numbers get higher, then they will start demanding their religious law be respected in the nation's law.
-------
it's happening in France, right now.
And the French are losing.
===
What happened in France is a failure to integrate immigrants. This has nothing to do with religion, they weren't only muslims. Even most of the right wing people of France agree that what they are experiencing is what America has went through with its black population 50 years earlier. Most french I know personally agree that France is a xenophobic and unfair nation. Had these been muslim extremists, you can be certain that Sarkozy would've went in guns blazing but you can't really do that with angry 12 years old, can you?
However it has happened in Canada. Around this summer, muslims demanded the Shariah Law to be instaurated to settle family matters in both Québec and Ontario.
It was rejected and will be until muslims might become a crushing majority I don't see why people like Stabkill are panicking over a isolated groups of douchebags. When these muslim groups tried to force their Shariah on us, the media barely coveraged it. They were basically ignored. These asshole's sole purpose to protest and scream is to have the press listening. Otherwise, what would be the point?
Sure the Arab world is pissed off, burning our flags and such...but whatever happens don't people see that we are responding to any direct attack at least TEN fold?
Muslim extremists are mosquitoes. They're annoying and can suck up a lot of your energy but the actual damage they do is close to insignificant.
We are really in dire need of a real enemy. Not a bunch of desert rats who are so desperate that their only tactics is a) whinning or b) exploding themselves.
Submitted by Jacobt26 (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:36:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
24 is offensive to humanity.
That show is fucking retarded.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:32:45 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:13:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
If someone is a free thinker, they can see nothing but problems with the religion of Islam and won't make excuses for the behavior of its people like you clowns do.
===
Nice argument there.
If someone agrees with me then someone is a free-thinker and a good person.
I'm no fan of Islam ("nothing but problems", isn't that a little absolute?) but little despots such as yourself need to shut the fuck up as much as the next assholish Himam.
Keep screaming, we're listening...really.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:27:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
They have CAIR and other groups "defending" them here in the USA while they slowly build their intolerant society larger and larger. Most Americans have little exposure to Islam and if they know someone at work they might even say "they are a great guy". Then they go home to their girlfriend/homosexual lover and live their lives. Of course, in a muslim-dominated nation...homosexuals are often killed and premarital sex can get you in big fucking trouble. There are honor killings for rape, and death penalties for violations of religious law (non-believing is one of them). But Islam is "misunderstood"!!! Once their numbers get higher, then they will start demanding their religious law be respected in the nation's law.
-------
it's happening in France, right now.
And the French are losing.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 16:13:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
DMD, just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them a free thinker.
If someone is a free thinker, they can see nothing but problems with the religion of Islam and won't make excuses for the behavior of its people like you clowns do.
Submitted by Tyrone_Washington (user info) at 2006-02-03 15:33:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Indoninja:
Well I lived in the largest Muslim country in the world for three years, and I spent six months in Egypt.
If someone had made posts bashing the Pope for Child abuse, would they be anti christian?
If a women wanted to read the Bible in a church and they were threatened with a bomb, would it be okay to make fun of them?
If someone made a post about christians destroying a liqior store would it be applauded?
I don't hate muslims. Why is it when I point out problems with their religion I am seen as a hate mongerer, but if the same scorn is heaped upon christians (a lot of times they DO need it) they are seen as enlightened.
----------------------------------------------------------
Those posts were some pretty good reads.
I personally DON'T think you despise muslims.
I agree that there are fundamental problems with SOME people in that religion, but the difference between radical factions and everyday muslims is completely different.
Most muslims I know would pay to kick Osama's ass, heck I even know a few who are for the war in Iraq.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 15:19:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
This story is a little relevant, but the sign cracks me up.
I don't know if the guy is being clever to make it sound good, or he has no english skills.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/pictures/MFK608D.htm
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 15:14:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 15:00:33 (#)
Ranking: 0
My point, indo, is that you actively complained about people being too "PC" to say Merry Christmas in the WEEKS leading up to the actual day. That bitching and whining is analagous to these same Muslims complaining anout the comics while hyping and making the movie. One is a perceived slight against your religion, while the other is your opinion on a movie. NOTHING MORE.
Both want their way when it works for them, but aren't willing to give an inch on issues which hit too close to them.
If that isn't clear, then you ARE being obtuse. And I'll take a month in the hole for saying that.
---------------------------------------------
OCG,
I don't go to church, haven't for a few years. I don't think I really believe in god. I was bitching because I people are being OVER sensitive not because I think they should respect my religion, not because I think it is disrespectful. This is why I don't get your argument. I don't like the change from Merry christmas to happy holiday for the same reason I don't like differently abled instead of handicapped. I think it is stupid to change things every time someone gets a bug up their ass about what is now correct and what is now offensive.
If anything that gives me more high ground in the Comic issue, since I think people shouldn't get upset about this stuff. Yes I complained about it on here, but I was bored, I didn't go around correcting people, and it is more of a pet peeve than a mission in life.
I am not really complaining about the movie, but I think it is stupid to get that upset about a comic, then make a movie that can be seen as just as offensive. You can't aske to be treated with kid gloves if you don't treat others that way.
Submitted by kimberly (user info) at 2006-02-03 15:12:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 15:06:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Tyrone_Washington (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:59:35 (#)
Ranking: -1
I'm changing my rating, because I found these posts:
http://www.ubersite.com/m/62230
http://www.ubersite.com/m/82251
http://www.ubersite.com/m/79996
What did Muslims ever do to you?
-----------------------
Well I lived in the largest Muslim country in the world for three years, and I spent six months in Egypt.
If someone had made posts bashing the Pope for Child abuse, would they be anti christian?
If a women wanted to read the Bible in a church and they were threatened with a bomb, would it be okay to make fun of them?
If someone made a post about christians destroying a liqior store would it be applauded?
I don't hate muslims. Why is it when I point out problems with their religion I am seen as a hate mongerer, but if the same scorn is heaped upon christians (a lot of times they DO need it) they are seen as enlightened.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 15:00:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
My point, indo, is that you actively complained about people being too "PC" to say Merry Christmas in the WEEKS leading up to the actual day. That bitching and whining is analagous to these same Muslims complaining anout the comics while hyping and making the movie. One is a perceived slight against your religion, while the other is your opinion on a movie. NOTHING MORE.
Both want their way when it works for them, but aren't willing to give an inch on issues which hit too close to them.
If that isn't clear, then you ARE being obtuse. And I'll take a month in the hole for saying that.
Submitted by Tyrone_Washington (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:59:35 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
I'm changing my rating, because I found these posts:
http://www.ubersite.com/m/62230
http://www.ubersite.com/m/82251
http://www.ubersite.com/m/79996
What did Muslims ever do to you?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:57:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:11:52 (#)
Ranking: 2
Hey, Indoninja, register the domain http://www.kickaquran.com and I'll provide videos of me kicking a quran down the street like a soccer ball, throwing one in a toilet and urinating on it, throwing it on the ground in heavy traffic (maybe I can arrange to throw it at the front of a semi-truck to be blasted to smithereens), and punting one off the side of a cliff at the grand canyon.
The possibilities are endless!
-----------------------------------
I was thinking about this very thing when I was going to get lunch.
Unfortunately my home is not yet Jihad proof so it might have to wait a while.
although I think I am going to make a shirt with the Mohommad bomb turban.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:57:54 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:54:54 (#)
Ranking: -2
this post sucks now, oh wait, it always did. i'm gone.
===
I shall follow your footsteps
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:56:34 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
You think there is a close similarity between liking to hear merry christmas on friggin christmas, and rioting and calling for the chopping off of hands because of a comic?? I am not being obtuse hear, I am really missing your argument. """
BOTH GROUPS ARE HAVING DOUBLE-STANDARDS AND THE SAME REACTION OVER TRIVIAL BULLSHIT! ONLY ONE HAPPENS TO UNCIVILIZED. THUS, THE MORE EXTREME REACTION. WHAT'S SO FUCKING HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:54:54 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
this post sucks now, oh wait, it always did. i'm gone.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:51:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:40:38 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:35:59 (#)
Ranking: 0
You're missing one other point, indo. You say that they are losing the high ground on the comic issue and that is a valid point. But you and a lot of others made a big deal out of a supposed "anti-Christian" bias. You lost that same high ground a long time ago.
===
Yes, he's among those people who took offense in the words "Happy Holidays"
Therefore, indoninja has lost moral high ground to criticize muslim aberrations.
By his "logic".
----------------------
What? I like to say Merry Christmas so I lost moral high ground in determining what is offensive?
When did I say people have to say Merry Christmas?
All I said it isn't offensive to people, if you are that thin skinned you shouldn't be allowed outside.
I never said Happy holidays is a crime against god. I never said that it hurts my ears that saying that is a sin and the person responsable for saying it should have his hand cut off.
You think there is a close similarity between liking to hear merry christmas on friggin christmas, and rioting and calling for the chopping off of hands because of a comic?? I am not being obtuse hear, I am really missing your argument.
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:48:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"In light of what is going on in the Muslim world aside from having double standards don't you thinnk this movie is a bit irresponsible?"
--
i haven't seen one "responsible" thing happen in any of those nations.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:47:20 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:44:41 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:33:16 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:27:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
Jesus, indo, you aren't realizing that they're 20 years behind us. Put that up against a Rambo-esque depiction of Arabs or Gooks and you're looking at negative images of each other.
===
There. That complements well what I'm desperatly trying to convey.
--------------------
Maybe. From what I remember from "Braddock missing in action", "Rambo", etc most of them had sympathetic people. Rambo had his hot Vietnamese girl, shit like that. They showed that it wasn't a racial thing.
Also when Rambo came out the US wasn't protesting anti US comics.
Name an American movie where someone being held prisoner for two days was paid back by a "bloodbath". Okay maybe that is splitting hairs, but how about this. When Rambo was made were people being killed over riots because of faked flag burning stories? In light of what is going on in the Muslim world aside from having double standards don't you thinnk this movie is a bit irresponsible? These people aren't too bright and it doesn't take much to set them off.
===
I've never seen someone trying so hard.
Fuck that.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:44:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:33:16 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:27:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
Jesus, indo, you aren't realizing that they're 20 years behind us. Put that up against a Rambo-esque depiction of Arabs or Gooks and you're looking at negative images of each other.
===
There. That complements well what I'm desperatly trying to convey.
--------------------
Maybe. From what I remember from "Braddock missing in action", "Rambo", etc most of them had sympathetic people. Rambo had his hot Vietnamese girl, shit like that. They showed that it wasn't a racial thing.
Also when Rambo came out the US wasn't protesting anti US comics.
Name an American movie where someone being held prisoner for two days was paid back by a "bloodbath". Okay maybe that is splitting hairs, but how about this. When Rambo was made were people being killed over riots because of faked flag burning stories? In light of what is going on in the Muslim world aside from having double standards don't you thinnk this movie is a bit irresponsible? These people aren't too bright and it doesn't take much to set them off.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:42:23 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:06:51 (#)
Ranking: 2
DMD is another idiot. If the vatican called for the boycott of something because of some religious issue he'd be the first to +2 the person criticizing them. Fuckin' hypocritical jerkoffs the whole lot of them...and this is why people like me hate "liberals" because for every one loki there are 100 mindless DMD's.
haha dumbass, your self-proclaimed freethinking (pretentious idiot) isn't getting you very far is it? if rational inquiry were anywhere in your cognizance you'd a) stray from your routine of making posts about whatever ridiculous cherrypicked incident can be extrapolated to blame librull demoncrats and b) learn to make a proper analogy
there are a lot of catholics in this country and therefore the vatican holds some clout as far as public opinion on some issues goes (this is attributable to catholics being stupid, who the fuck needs a bathrobe laden geriatric in a silly hat to tell them what to think). this situation is patently nonanalogous to pussy whining about a sensationalist movie in Turkey that has no bearing on anyone's opinion (except you poor put-upon conservatives who see another opportunity to play the victim)
now why don't you employ your monstrous powers of rational thought and logic and try again you obnoxious fucking gimmick
also explain how your definition of freethinker does not apply to me, an atheist biology major
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:40:38 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:35:59 (#)
Ranking: 0
You're missing one other point, indo. You say that they are losing the high ground on the comic issue and that is a valid point. But you and a lot of others made a big deal out of a supposed "anti-Christian" bias. You lost that same high ground a long time ago.
===
Yes, he's among those people who took offense in the words "Happy Holidays"
Therefore, indoninja has lost moral high ground to criticize muslim aberrations.
By his "logic".
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:40:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
regarding the cartoon thing though, you have to kind of admire their passion/ignorance.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:35:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You're missing one other point, indo. You say that they are losing the high ground on the comic issue and that is a valid point. But you and a lot of others made a big deal out of a supposed "anti-Christian" bias. You lost that same high ground a long time ago.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:34:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
OK, first off, I'm not terribly patriotic. I hate my neighbors, don't much care for Strauss, detest Disney and Warner Brothers, I don't wipe my face on patriotic napkins, listen to country music, or pimp my political agenda on my car.
All the same, the amount of nonsense I am expected to tolerate from various ethnic and religious groups is simply stupefying. Worship what you want, marry who you want, configure your body and all that is contained within as you see fit. Work where you want and decorate your house in any style permitted by local buiding code. I really couldn't care less. It's when you attempt to inflict your idiocy on others that I start to get pissed off. We've become such milksops that we have to be tolerant of the most rude, obnoxious and even dangerous behavior in this country, as god forbid we should ever speak badly of anyone's "culture" or "beliefs".
I'm not just talking about the whackjob suicide bombers or the ghetto folk and their suburban copycat fops. I'm talking about the crusaders who think it's their right to tell us who we should marry, when we can die, and what we can do with the contents of our bodies. I'm talking about the bleeding-pussy hippies who think we should preserve the "life and dignity" of a criminal rather than save lives (and dollars) by putting a bullet in his or her skull. I'm talking about my fucking mother in law and her constant bitching about how we're not giving her fucking grandkids.
You all piss me off.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:33:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:28:11 (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't know if you noticed or not but... THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CULTURES/COUNTRIES.
-----------------------
I think I mentioned it in my post.
I am sure there are protests in Turkey, not just as widespread, and I promise you this will be a hit among the people protesting. And hey, I am not saying it shouldn't be. If I hated America I would love to see this movie, but watching it would take away moral highground (not that I think they had any to begin with) among people who think that comic should not have been allowed to be published.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:33:16 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:27:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
Jesus, indo, you aren't realizing that they're 20 years behind us. Put that up against a Rambo-esque depiction of Arabs or Gooks and you're looking at negative images of each other.
===
There. That complements well what I'm desperatly trying to convey.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:32:08 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:20:36 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:57:02 (#)
Ranking: 0
Now, perhaps your could agree that comparing the United States with the Arab world also makes little sense.
I'm not asking you to like them, but don't expect them to live by the same standards you do.
Have we found common ground, baby?
------------------------
You are missing my argument. I am not really upset by the movie.
I am upset that activists both in the US and overseas would be screaming if the situation was reversed.
I am upset that that Hollywood and the Media here has no balls.
I am not comparing the US to the Arab world, I am saying they have a double standard if they can come together uniformly and condemn a comic they find offensive but have no qualms about an equally offensive movie.
The movie itself isn't the issue. The issue is the ritcheous anger they have over any slight, while at the same time churning out stuff like this, which is mild to the comics they run in their paper.
Yes the US has made movies that villify different groups (but that normally wasn't the point of the movie, this is), but we didn't do this in a time when we were bashing the rest of the world for making political cartoons about us.
===
*sigh*
Dude, I understood your argument when I read the post.
What I said is simple. You admit that Americans too have made movies that villify different groups. What you must realize is that the same time, Americans throw a temper tantrum over the slightest criticism coming their way from these same group they vilify. The only difference is that you're not a nation of people who have nothing better to do than wander in the streets and fire your AK's and threaten foreigners. So it's usually just your media that strongly reacts. That's the only difference, the intensity of the reaction. EVERYBODY has double-standards.
If you don't get what I'm saying (I phrased it differently 4 times already), you never will.
Submitted by MistressFist (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:29:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
solution = kill all middle eastern Muslim men. Rescue women and female children, and male children under the age of 12.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:29:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Methinks cuberat done gave his account to Jack_McCallum....
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:28:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Loki, if more "liberals" thought the way you did I'd only say "those silly liberals" instead of "those fucking liberals!"
Just kidding, of course. But I do wish to clarify my dislike of liberals to those who never seem to understand... Take any issue and we should approach it like this (as a true liberal)
We have an issue given to us that we need to review.
#1 issue should be personal liberties and constitutional rights/concerns
#2 should be protections to the people
#3 should be cost
#4 should be control
I am typing fast and off the top of my head but I'm sure there are things I've missed and should include... But all these things should be taken into account.
Many "liberals" jump over 1, 2, 3 and get right to #4 and say "GOVERNMENT!" This is bad.
Many "conservatives" jump over 1 and 2 and get right to #3. This is bad.
Well...I'm going to watch a movie called "the cooler". It could be bad, good..I don't know. But I'm watching it. Later, folks.
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:28:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:24:15 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:11:30 (#)
Ranking: 2
We could just be like them - start suicide bombing their cities. Nuke mecca. Lynch arabs in the streets of the USA. See how long Islam lasts when there are no more of them to be Muslim.
---------------------
cuberat?
What are you doing with his account?
I am not saying go to war over this, I am not even upset about the movie. I am upset people are treading carefully on anything to do with Muslims here, and yet they make a movie like this and still complain that the west is bias.
---
I don't know if you noticed or not but... THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CULTURES/COUNTRIES.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:27:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Jesus, indo, you aren't realizing that they're 20 years behind us. Put that up against a Rambo-esque depiction of Arabs or Gooks and you're looking at negative images of each other.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:24:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:11:30 (#)
Ranking: 2
We could just be like them - start suicide bombing their cities. Nuke mecca. Lynch arabs in the streets of the USA. See how long Islam lasts when there are no more of them to be Muslim.
---------------------
cuberat?
What are you doing with his account?
I am not saying go to war over this, I am not even upset about the movie. I am upset people are treading carefully on anything to do with Muslims here, and yet they make a movie like this and still complain that the west is bias.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:21:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
cuberat, whom I disagree with 98.6% of the time, actually brought up a good point in his comment below. The only problem is, Americans aren't willing to strap on suicide belts and do such things. Islam spreads through this and we shrink.
They have CAIR and other groups "defending" them here in the USA while they slowly build their intolerant society larger and larger. Most Americans have little exposure to Islam and if they know someone at work they might even say "they are a great guy". Then they go home to their girlfriend/homosexual lover and live their lives. Of course, in a muslim-dominated nation...homosexuals are often killed and premarital sex can get you in big fucking trouble. There are honor killings for rape, and death penalties for violations of religious law (non-believing is one of them). But Islam is "misunderstood"!!! Once their numbers get higher, then they will start demanding their religious law be respected in the nation's law.
If you think blue laws were bad, wait until the muslims get in charge.
I can surely deal with stores being closed on sunday or 3.2% beer to the alternative.
Of course, I always recommend you don't take my word for it...this is just a stupid internet site. Go research how people live in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. And perhaps after the next tsunami you won't be so quick to whip out that checkbook.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:20:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:57:02 (#)
Ranking: 0
Now, perhaps your could agree that comparing the United States with the Arab world also makes little sense.
I'm not asking you to like them, but don't expect them to live by the same standards you do.
Have we found common ground, baby?
------------------------
You are missing my argument. I am not really upset by the movie.
I am upset that activists both in the US and overseas would be screaming if the situation was reversed.
I am upset that that Hollywood and the Media here has no balls.
I am not comparing the US to the Arab world, I am saying they have a double standard if they can come together uniformly and condemn a comic they find offensive but have no qualms about an equally offensive movie.
The movie itself isn't the issue. The issue is the ritcheous anger they have over any slight, while at the same time churning out stuff like this, which is mild to the comics they run in their paper.
Yes the US has made movies that villify different groups (but that normally wasn't the point of the movie, this is), but we didn't do this in a time when we were bashing the rest of the world for making political cartoons about us.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:19:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
AWWW Stabby said something nice about me
I'm i'm just touched
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:11:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"There isn't going to be a war over this," said Nefise Karatay, a Turkish model lounging on a sofa after the premiere. "Everyone knows that Americans have a good side. That's not what this is about."
==================================================================================================
Maybe there should be a war over this.
Don't get me wrong, I am a total liberal, and normally I have been all about understanding and peaceful negotiation, but wtf...
I mean, Muslims rioted in the street in Paris this summer, they are all in an uproar threatening violence and boycotts over the Danish political cartoons, they burn American flags regularly, and shoot, behead and kidnap our people all the time, just for being American.
Not to mention that they were dancing in the street and celebrating on 9-11-01 when some of them killed almost 3,000 of our civilians.
I'm not some wacko right-wing republican, but I mean if they want to impose their ways on everyone else and have a double standard where they can do what they want and we should treat them with kid gloves, maybe its time we start living up to our stereotype.
We could just be like them - start suicide bombing their cities. Nuke mecca. Lynch arabs in the streets of the USA. See how long Islam lasts when there are no more of them to be Muslim.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:10:07 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:06:51 (#)
Ranking: 2
DMD is another idiot. If the vatican called for the boycott of something because of some religious issue he'd be the first to +2 the person criticizing them. Fuckin' hypocritical jerkoffs the whole lot of them...and this is why people like me hate "liberals" because for every one loki there are 100 mindless DMD's.
===
Drink some tea or stab a picture of Clinton, but calm down. You're having a fit.
Submitted by retrospect (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:09:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:57:02 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:54:03 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:14:13 (#)
Ranking: -2
That was my point to which he agreed but added "there is a difference, we don't riot and chant death to another country". Well of fucking course you don't...last I heard, you're a civilized country.
-----------------------
Weren't you arguing yesterday that we were worse than the ones toting guns to their protests.
Also that wasn't the only difference. We have the far right wing jack-offs calling for war on everyone, but we also have countless people condemning them from inside the country from the President, to the news, to celebrities, to the guy in the fucking cubicle next to me.
Where are the protests against movies like this?
You can't see a difference?
===
Never mind my previous comment. You answered.
I agreed yesterday that my argument was over the top and made little sense.
Now, perhaps your could agree that comparing the United States with the Arab world also makes little sense.
I'm not asking you to like them, but don't expect them to live by the same standards you do.
Have we found common ground, baby?
---
good comment. i like how you taunt him with the "baby" at the end.
anyways, blah blah blah my run was wonderful. i noticed how old men look at me with a far away look in their eyes as they remember "the good old days" when they could run through the streets as fast as a car. lost youth is something that people should protest, not stupid movies.
movies = entertainment.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:06:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
DMD is another idiot. If the vatican called for the boycott of something because of some religious issue he'd be the first to +2 the person criticizing them. Fuckin' hypocritical jerkoffs the whole lot of them...and this is why people like me hate "liberals" because for every one loki there are 100 mindless DMD's.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:05:46 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Stabkill - so that's how it works in the U.S. Your level of appreciation of O'Reilly gauges you on this bizarre political scale of yours? That's particular.
*yawn*
p.s. I barely read your comment.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-02-03 14:00:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:08:22 (#)
Ranking: -2
Stabkill - you have no room to call people mindless since every single one of your posts are about partisan Liberals vs Conservatives caca.
90% of the people on this post basically said "WHO FUCKING CARES!?"
"""** Ignore facts such as there usually is little reaction in the USA to one person's comments whether the agree with them or do not. Never mention criticize the enemy which DOES react to simple things being blown out of proportion by gathering thousands upon thousands chanting for deaths of Americans. """
As I said, if you want to compare yourself to the Arab world, go ahead buddy. I know I wouldn't. Just as I don't expect Burkina Fasso to have our standards of healthcare.
Now go post about how "liberals are stoopid, man", you 'free-thinker' you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like liberals, therefore I must be a conservative? That's great!
Freethinker: One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation.
Loki is most certainly a freethinking liberal.
I listen to radio call-in talkshows usually and it doesn't take too long to see what kind of people there on on the phone on the other side with people like Bill O'Reilly (your most hated radio personality). One person can call in and say something and you'll think that all americans think that way. That's rational thinking right there!
Here is what I get from many of the callers:
Right wing nut. They will say they agree with "everything" Bill O'Reilly says and usually support him verbally on some pro-religion or anti-abortion stance
Right Winger: They will agree with him on "everything" as well but support him on a wide variety of topics not set on just religion.
Moderate Republican/Right Wing Conservative-Libertarian: Will agree with "mostly" what he says and will offer support on an issue that is important to them, or make a comment to support that issue positively.
Midde-of-the-road folks: In the old days people voted for the best candidate out there, it didn't matter what political affiliation it was... they went by their words more than their party. There are fewer people like this out there so you get RARE calls from these guys. They usually will ask a question about something to futher understand whatever stance Bill O'Reilly takes
Moderate Democrat: Will actually agree with Bill O'Reilly on key issues many times but disagree with how O'Reilly wants to solve that issue/problem. They will certainly disagree with him on issues like Abortion/Assisted Suicide and other issues based on "morality" where O'Reilly tends to side with the church. O'Reilly actually has similar views with these guys on certain issues.
Left-Wing Democrat: Dislike O'Reilly, once in awhile get a good point across that O'Reilly will concede is a good point. Usually they call in to bitch about the one subject they disagee with O'Reilly on.
Ultra-Left Wing nut: This is what O'reilly refers to as "kool aid" drinkers. I'd have to agree with O'reilly and these guys are fucking nuts. They are close minded as their right-wing counterparts (though you'll get a right winger to claim they are close minded on these issues while these guys will say that EVERYONE ELSE IS AN IDIOT but them and if you disagree with them...you are Hitler!
This is why conservative radio does well. They appeal to 5-6 out of the 7 categories I mentioned to listen in. "Liberal" radio only appeals to 2-3...maybe FOUR of the groups.
But someone like you thinks that anyone who would listen to O'Reilly is a right wing nut and that is just ridiculous...and then you become more angry and more anti-american for absolutely no reason other than being stupid.
You have been marginalized, my french-candian pal.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:59:49 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
-2, who cares
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:57:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:54:03 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:14:13 (#)
Ranking: -2
That was my point to which he agreed but added "there is a difference, we don't riot and chant death to another country". Well of fucking course you don't...last I heard, you're a civilized country.
-----------------------
Weren't you arguing yesterday that we were worse than the ones toting guns to their protests.
Also that wasn't the only difference. We have the far right wing jack-offs calling for war on everyone, but we also have countless people condemning them from inside the country from the President, to the news, to celebrities, to the guy in the fucking cubicle next to me.
Where are the protests against movies like this?
You can't see a difference?
===
Never mind my previous comment. You answered.
I agreed yesterday that my argument was over the top and made little sense.
Now, perhaps your could agree that comparing the United States with the Arab world also makes little sense.
I'm not asking you to like them, but don't expect them to live by the same standards you do.
Have we found common ground, baby?
Submitted by Tyrone_Washington (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:55:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Being politically correct solves nothing.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:54:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo, instead of saying I'm an idiot...please answer this http://www.ubersite.com/m/83407#1820003
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:54:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:14:13 (#)
Ranking: -2
That was my point to which he agreed but added "there is a difference, we don't riot and chant death to another country". Well of fucking course you don't...last I heard, you're a civilized country.
-----------------------
Weren't you arguing yesterday that we were worse than the ones toting guns to their protests.
Also that wasn't the only difference. We have the far right wing jack-offs calling for war on everyone, but we also have countless people condemning them from inside the country from the President, to the news, to celebrities, to the guy in the fucking cubicle next to me.
Where are the protests against movies like this?
You can't see a difference?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-03 13:48:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Anyone who left -2, who cares I understand.
To everyone who said fucking Americans and their double standards. You are an idiot.
I never said this movie shouldn't be made. I never said the people making it should be punished, and I am not going to go protesting it. I am just saying fuck them, and fuck every towelhead who protest a western movie.
The only double standards here are the ones the Majority of Muslims have. This movie is clearly Anti american.
It isn't just using Americans as the bad guy, it whole goal is to be anti American. If this wasn't the case why did they play off a real incident? Why does it revolve around killing multiple Americans because muslims were heald prisoner?
Anyone see the sum of all fears? That was supposed to be about middle eastern terrorists, but it was changed because hollywood didn't want to offend the niddle east. The list of movies that were protested is endless.
I think I am almost more pissed off at hollywood and the media here for bowing down to jackasses. The pepers here won't even print a picture here of Mohammad with a bobm in his fucking turban, but christ upside down with Osama's face is ok.
Berty,
as far as hollywood having stupid love interests and music, I will go ahead and assume you haven't seen any turkish movies. Worse than Bollywood.