Thank You, Education President. Looks Like Our Kids Are Really Fucked Now. (3368 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 1.61 on 204 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Pentameter (View user info) at 2006-02-10 10:44:45 EST
Shitfuck got the ball rolling: http://www.ubersite.com/m/83750
Remember the 2000 election, when the person who didn't win the popular vote became the President of the United States? Remember how he claimed that he was going to be the "Education President," and how he was going to improve our children's test scores so that the rest of the world would stop thinking we are a bunch of rich, fat retards?
Before the resident Republicans come crawling out of the woodwork to rip me a new asshole, let me just say that I don't consider myself to be a Republican or a Democrat. I consider myself to be an intelligent adult voter who would rather have an intelligent president than follow a political affiliation blindly into a freshly dug grave.
This isn't the Yankees vs. the Red Sox, and the voters in this country need to get their fucking priorities straight and stop voting for their "team."
Anyway, back to my point. As an intelligent adult voter who works in higher education, let me just say that I am completely outraged by the cuts that are going to be made to the already dwindling government programs in education.
Nearly 6% of last year's budget is being cut. This may not seem like a huge amount, and really, $3 billion dollars isn't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.
But let's look at the programs that are being zeroed out.
Vocational Educational Programs on both the state and federal level:
Voc. Ed. Programs, as we call them in the field, provide hands on learning equipment for students in trade programs, such as automotive technicians, electricians, plumbers and chefs. This money also funds equipment for future scientists, medical researcher, nurses and doctors.
If our legislators allow this budget to pass, colleges and universities are not going to be able to afford purchasing equipment for these programs, forcing students to train on out of date equipment. Hours of hands on training will decrease, time spent learning theory from a book will decrease, and students will not have the level of expertise they need when they complete their course of study.
I sincerely hope that the doctor who performs your open heart surgery had sufficient time training on a model of a heart or on a manikin before he sticks his hands into your chest. I sincerely hope that the mechanic who works on your car doesn't destroy your engine, and I also hope that the electrician who wires your new home does it the correct way so that it doesn't burn down.
Tech Prep State Grants:
Tech Prep helps to funnel students from high schools through the baccalaureate level in trade programs. Getting students interested in the trades at a young age is vital to keeping up with industry demands. Last year, our President introduced an initiative that would increase funding to high demand occupations at the community college level.
This year, he is proposing to cut the entire high school module of that program completely from the budget, thus cutting off the pipeline of students being groomed to fill high demand industries.
Doesn't make much sense, does it?
Perkins Loans:
If you went to college on a loan, it was probably a Perkins Loan. Once these are gone, traditional students are going to have to get non-traditional school loans from banks and loan companies that have enormous and gratuitous interest rates.
Chances are, a lot of students aren't even going to be able to get a loan. Unfortunately for them, our government doesn't think they deserve a chance to better themselves because they weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths.
I guess a lot of next generation students are going to end up working at McDonald's for a few decades before than can attend school, huh?
This one is easy - it's a sound business solution.
New Choices/New Options:
This program is for single and divorced mothers. Government funds help them to pursue a career that would not only better their lives, but also the lives of their children. Once again, our government does not want to see anyone other than the silver-spooners getting ahead in life.
FYI - A child's performance in school is directly related to how much money their parents make. Therefore, if a kid's parents work two minimum wage jobs, chances are that he/she is going to be a below average student. If a kid's parents are in the top 10% of salary range, he/she is most assuredly Harvard bound.
Multiple programs that help low income individuals get an education:
This one is also easy - who the hell wants to see an African American wearing something around his neck other than a noose?
Multiple programs that decrease funding for teacher education:
No child left behind?
No child left behind, my ass.
If our government isn't willing to spend the money to improve the level that our teachers are currently on, how are our children supposed to become the intelligent nuclear physicists they need to build bombs? How are they supposed to learn to speak Arabic and Cantonese?
This is the tip of the iceberg as far as proposed cuts. As a person who values education enough to pursue a career in the educational field, I am outraged. I am hoping that our legislators do the right thing and not allow the budget to pass.
Pour more money into defense, cut and clip and trim where you will, but don't cut money to education.
All I can say is - I can't wait until 2008.
User Reviews
Submitted by Alter (user info) at 2007-09-26 21:00:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No, Comment.
Submitted by phuzzygish (user info) at 2006-02-22 07:08:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Congratulations lass!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-16 13:34:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-15 08:26:10 (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, and regarding your statement about the drivers not being skilled....
I would rather have a slightly overpaid and happy driver than an underpaid and pissed off person any day of the week. If something goes wrong, it's the driver that will be blamed and he will be fired and sued (assuming he survives). It's one rationale for paying pilots as much as they are. You must compensate them for the responsibility of their position. And anymore, being a pilot isn't THAT much more skilled, based on reports of how often the auto-landing systems do the part of the job that is cited asthe "most dangerous". Around the time that jet went off the runway at landing a couple months ago, airline industry people (anonymously, of course) said no pilot action was required in over 50% of landings. Up to $300K a year to let a machine to all the work....?
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The worst certified airline pilot is more skilled than the best certified bus driver. When do they even get above 50mph? As far as the machine doing all the work, I suggest you read up a little more on pilots auto landing systems doesn't mena the pilot does nothing, it means he doesn't do everything.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-15 08:20:44 (#)
Ranking: 0
What you're missing, indo, is that the 48K cited there INCLUDES SKILLED LABOR. That means most of the ticket jockeys you deal with are likely making in the 31k or 32k area (working off of the wikipedia numbers). Or more simply, less than a "fragrance sprayer" at Macy's or a short order cook, and around the same as a knockoff-handbag street vendor. That sounds about right to me.
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Well the average is around 55k due to overtime, which union rules call for at the drop of a hat. I am not sure that skilled labor (ie mechanics and the like) are included in this, I would have thought that is subcontracted or another union. But if we assume this is the case, I still think the ticket jockeys deserve less. Fragrance people bust their ass being nice and trying to get people to buy stuff. Knock-off hand bag street vendors stand out in the cold, rain, and heat and bust their ass for a sale. And with union rules it is virtually impossible to fire people who come to the job drunk, late, or are incredably rude.
And the proposed contract by the MTA was never cutting their pay. They would have to pay more for their benefits, but they would get paid more, so for the first year their would be no pay raise, but after that they would be given raises. I know a lot of people that don't automatically get a raise every year that work a lot harder than these schmucks.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-16 13:00:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-16 12:39:37 (#)
Ranking: 2
Hahahahaha...you're something else.
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what?
Submitted by ConorJS (user info) at 2006-02-15 19:17:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
YANK - EES - SUCK! YANK - EES - SUCK! YANK - EES - SUCK!
YEAAAAHHHH Boston!
Submitted by MickGinny (user info) at 2006-02-15 12:52:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Pentameter, If I were ten years younger...and not a married man...and not horrifically ugly. I would be all over you like skin.
Why do I find this post sexy? -all the young men ask- believe me when I tell you that smart articulate and confident women is what will make it wiggle when you are through with the vacant primp queens.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-15 08:26:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, and regarding your statement about the drivers not being skilled....
I would rather have a slightly overpaid and happy driver than an underpaid and pissed off person any day of the week. If something goes wrong, it's the driver that will be blamed and he will be fired and sued (assuming he survives). It's one rationale for paying pilots as much as they are. You must compensate them for the responsibility of their position. And anymore, being a pilot isn't THAT much more skilled, based on reports of how often the auto-landing systems do the part of the job that is cited asthe "most dangerous". Around the time that jet went off the runway at landing a couple months ago, airline industry people (anonymously, of course) said no pilot action was required in over 50% of landings. Up to $300K a year to let a machine to all the work....?
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-15 08:21:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Pentameter, the stragglers are often the ones who are interested in dialog and not callingthe others "fucking morons". It just takes patience for real conversation to win out.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-15 08:20:44 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
What you're missing, indo, is that the 48K cited there INCLUDES SKILLED LABOR. That means most of the ticket jockeys you deal with are likely making in the 31k or 32k area (working off of the wikipedia numbers). Or more simply, less than a "fragrance sprayer" at Macy's or a short order cook, and around the same as a knockoff-handbag street vendor. That sounds about right to me.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-15 08:17:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm glad you guys keep commenting on this post and that you're engaging in a healthy discussion about these issues. That's the reason why I wrote this post.
Connor...I didn't mean that 10% of our youth go to Harvard, I meant that if their parents are in the top 10% of wealth in the US, they are more likely to be on the level of intelligence (as well as the level of income) needed to get into an Ivy league school.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-15 07:51:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-14 12:50:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo, I was working off of the link Juls provided:
"NYC Transit worker- Average US$48,000 annually (this includes skilled and unskilled labor) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_New_York_City_transit_strike "
Now, if her link is accurate, $48K average including skilled and unskilled is not bad. I have no personal knowledge or stake of the NYC transit system.
And if you're looking for those types of ME jobs, check the cinci area. GE Aircraft loves them some engineers.
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I saw that link, and I normally trust Wiipedia to an extent, but I am almost positive I saw CNN set their average wage in the mid 50's (I remember seeing 58). Even if the 48 is what they are getting, every person I have met who interacts with them (myself included) thinks it is too much.
I am not sure how I gave you the impression I was jealous of their salary, or unhappy with mine, but I make a good deal more than 50k, and am happy with my salary.
Submitted by Dead_0hi0_Sky (user info) at 2006-02-15 01:54:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
blah blah politics blah blah who cares
+1 b/c its you, and we're allowed to play favorites every now and then.
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2006-02-15 01:49:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with ConorJS in part "FYI - A child's performance in school is directly related to how much money their parents make. Therefore, if a kid's parents work two minimum wage jobs, chances are that he/she is going to be a below average student. If a kid's parents are in the top 10% of salary range, he/she is most assuredly Harvard bound."
The children of immigrants have often flourished in the American education system despite their parents not belonging to the upper 10% salary range.
The United States has breed a sense of entitlement from the Teacher's union who can keep many underperforming teachers in their positions due to tenure, to America's youth who feel a real feeling of entitlement to the "American Dream" without working or really evaluating what many generations before have done to achieve that dream.
The middle class achieved in the United States in years gone by not solely based on the politics of the time but the training and skills that the youth of that time sought to acquire. We have created a generation who feel it's either a college education or bust, whereas in decades past blue collar trades and technical schools gave many the ability to achieve financially without a college degree.
A BS degree is just that bullshit, with the proliferation of 2 year, 4 year, and unaccredited schools it seems as though there is no real competition for a degree rendering it worthless and only a stepping stone into an entry level job. Rarity creates worth, and in a culture where they have the online degree from "Phoenix University" and "Debbie's House of Pancakes, wholesale rugs, and graphic design University" why does it come as such a surprise that a degree is worth so little.
Sorry Pent, I don't mean to keep hijacking your post to stand on my soapbox, but the commentary on this post is really interesting.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2006-02-14 22:28:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by ConorJS (user info) at 2006-02-14 19:14:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Well written but...
"If a kid's parents are in the top 10% of salary range, he/she is most assuredly Harvard bound."
I kind of doubt that 10% of our nations youth go to Harvard.
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2006-02-14 19:08:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
My sentiments exactly. The time is coming in the near future when America simply will not be able to compete on a world class scale. There will not be enough skilled trained and intelligent professionals to fill required voids while the surplus uneducated populous on the lower end will make it impossible to get a decent salary without the ever ellusive higher education.
China's going to kick our collective ass out of the number one slot and we will be powerless to stop it.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-14 12:50:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Indo, I was working off of the link Juls provided:
"NYC Transit worker- Average US$48,000 annually (this includes skilled and unskilled labor) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_New_York_City_transit_strike "
Now, if her link is accurate, $48K average including skilled and unskilled is not bad. I have no personal knowledge or stake of the NYC transit system.
And if you're looking for those types of ME jobs, check the cinci area. GE Aircraft loves them some engineers.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-14 08:02:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 20:41:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2006-02-13 19:56:38 (#)
Ranking: 2
Isn't it more disturbing that window washers make almost 46K per year? Or that a "fragrance sprayer" at Macy's makes 35K? Or that a knockoff-handbag street vendor (illegal) makes 31K? Short order cooks make 38K? You want to talk about unskilled labor making far too much?
Or maybe the 6-figure incomes of non-profit chairs, directors, and presidents? http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index6.html
Janitors making more thaan teachers? http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index5.html
Or shouldn't we be more depressed by 18K for a PFC in Iraq, including hazardous duty pay? http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index4.html
But all you people can do is bitch about subway workers. Keep in mind, that includes the ticket-takers AND they guy driving your train. I'm willing to bet the guys driving are pulling that average up a LOT. You can bitch about teachers and their "light" workload. Like any of you fucks could deal with 30-50 kids all day.
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OCG where do you live? I mean have you dealt with any transit workers? If you have and think they don't make too much, you are a much more genrous man than me, or antone else I know who has been to NYC. I am kind of busy, but I am almost positive the average salary as reported by CNN was 58k, and to my knowledge that doesn't cover the mechanics (a skilled job). The people who drive these trains aren't skilled. I could learn to do it safely in under ten minutes.
As far as window washers, well there is an element of danger in their work.
The rest of what you said, janitors, non-profit chairs, etc I agree with.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 20:41:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2006-02-13 19:56:38 (#)
Ranking: 2
Chelsea Clinton-$120,000 Consultant, McKinsey & Co.
http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index7.html
Isn't it more disturbing that window washers make almost 46K per year? Or that a "fragrance sprayer" at Macy's makes 35K? Or that a knockoff-handbag street vendor (illegal) makes 31K? Short order cooks make 38K? You want to talk about unskilled labor making far too much?
Or maybe the 6-figure incomes of non-profit chairs, directors, and presidents? http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index6.html
Janitors making more thaan teachers? http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index5.html
Or shouldn't we be more depressed by 18K for a PFC in Iraq, including hazardous duty pay? http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index4.html
But all you people can do is bitch about subway workers. Keep in mind, that includes the ticket-takers AND they guy driving your train. I'm willing to bet the guys driving are pulling that average up a LOT. You can bitch about teachers and their "light" workload. Like any of you fucks could deal with 30-50 kids all day.
Submitted by BranDo (user info) at 2006-02-13 20:26:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Who is going to look after you IF you reach retirement? It's not just the children, it's the whole planet that suffers as he keeps sending out more and more uniforms. Plans for Iran are being made right now, another good excuse to keep sending and spending on war from which the silver spooned kids profit. Education = Good.
Submitted by Wisher (user info) at 2006-02-13 20:04:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I meant thank you, Pent, for this post. My 1st review sounded wrong.
Submitted by Wisher (user info) at 2006-02-13 20:02:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Thank you.
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2006-02-13 19:56:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I noticed a few people were commenting on the average salary of a NYC Transit worker vs. a teacher and so forth I just wanted to give a few examples of the pay scale here in NYC, the "stressful" nature of each job is totally subjective in my opinion:
NYC Transit worker- Average US$48,000 annually (this includes skilled and unskilled labor) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_New_York_City_transit_strike
NYC School Teacher- Median wage $53,017 under the last contract that is $44.38 per work hour, the new contract that has been negotiated is even better. (for reference if teachers worked the average 2080 hour work year would translate into $92,310.40)
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nypost_teacher_pay_myth.htm
NYPD- $59,588 after 5 1/2 years of service
http://www.nypd2.org/html/recruit/salary.html
FDNY-$61,511 after 5 years of service
http://nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/community/firefighter_compensation.shtml
Chelsea Clinton-$120,000 Consultant, McKinsey & Co.
http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index7.html
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-02-13 19:13:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
By the way...
I got a petition going for that other thing: http://www.ubersite.com/m/83896
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-02-13 18:00:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Before the resident Republicans come crawling out of the woodwork to rip me a new asshole, let me just say that I don't consider myself to be a Republican or a Democrat. I consider myself to be an intelligent adult voter who would rather have an intelligent president than follow a political affiliation blindly into a freshly dug grave.
This isn't the Yankees vs. the Red Sox, and the voters in this country need to get their fucking priorities straight and stop voting for their "team."
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If that was all you said in this post, it would still get a +2 from me because that's the fucking crux of our problem right there!
We've got to get a third party into contention to straighten this mess out long term.
Submitted by Call911 (user info) at 2006-02-13 17:36:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Glad I live in Canada.
Submitted by lucid (user info) at 2006-02-13 17:25:03 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
/*
Multiple programs that help low income individuals get an education:
This one is also easy - who the hell wants to see an African American wearing something around his neck other than a noose?
*/
Unhilarious.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-13 16:40:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 15:32:14 (#)
Ranking: 0
Overpaid or underpaid is not based on your subjective opinion. Indeed, it is based entirely on what the market pays them. You can say that $50K is the mark for someone who have a stressful job. I would personally put it higher, based on my work experience. Indeed, $50K is on the very low side for a mechanical engineer with several years experience. At least, that is what I am led to believe by the job postings here and the job a friend who has yet to graduate has already been offered.
If we based pay on how stressful one's job was, no CEO would be getting a couple million and athletes would be paying for their jobs. Basically, your argument is crap.
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Yes based on what the market pays them. the unions throw the market out the window. They are overpaid because tons of people would kill for that job and there are virtually no tough qualifications.
I never said I make 50k, these transit workers have an average salary of 58k (from my memory so I could be wrong). I never said that stress should be the only factor, but the stress and danger of a job could be an argument for someone getting paid more. Can you honestly make the argument that they should be making more than teachers? Do you think that is a fair wage for someone with no real skills (and in my experiences no initiative, politness or concept of curteousness). CEO's and athletes have jobs most people couldn't do. Anyone could do what the transit workers do.
Submitted by Aztune (user info) at 2006-02-13 15:50:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Relative my ass.
Teachers are sadly underpaid.
Yes, they chose that profession, and yes, they know the pay sucks, and yes, they should shut up and take it because it's the choice they made.
I live about 10 minutes from Albany, New York.
Albany High School is horribly violent this year. The teachers aren't demanding more pay. They are demanding that the school board take action and create a safer school.
During the board meeting, the board chairperson cut off the speaking teachers by saying they were out of time.
When a school administration, who make an average of $80,000 a year, tell caring teachers that they have talked for too long, there is a problem.
These teachers risk physical violence on a daily basis. I forbade my wife from considering a job there, but she tells me there are no openings. Those teachers care more about the kids learning than their own safety.
People like that should earn more. If teachers made more money, the quality of teachers would increase.
The smart math types who want to teach but don't want dick for pay will reconsider.
It's too bad, really. And the overwhelming budget cuts for Education are only making things worse.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 15:32:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Overpaid or underpaid is not based on your subjective opinion. Indeed, it is based entirely on what the market pays them. You can say that $50K is the mark for someone who have a stressful job. I would personally put it higher, based on my work experience. Indeed, $50K is on the very low side for a mechanical engineer with several years experience. At least, that is what I am led to believe by the job postings here and the job a friend who has yet to graduate has already been offered.
If we based pay on how stressful one's job was, no CEO would be getting a couple million and athletes would be paying for their jobs. Basically, your argument is crap.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-13 15:08:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 14:52:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
So in a narrow sense, it isn't the same, but it is in a broader sense. You want to hold on what comes to you but want others to willingly give up something that has significant value to them. They SHOULD give it up because "there are plenty of people who can and would do it for less"? There are plenty of people who can and would do what you do for less. So, you SHOULD take a bigger pay cut.
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What? I am a mechanical engineer with several years experience. I get paid a fair market value for my work. Their salaries are kept artificially high by the strength of their union. If I was asked to take a pay cut, I would look for another job. They strike because they can't all be replaced at once. People should not be making more than 50k if they have no, or at least very little job skills. People should not be making more than 50k if they don't have a stressful job and a high code of conduct they have to follow.
I hope they do have to pay the full fine for an illegal strike.
And if I remember correctly the current members weren't going to have to have their retirement moved back, or have to pay for their benefits (not sure about this) just new hires. And the biggest sticking point was that it was going to be easier to file complaints against lousy workers.
I am not 100% against unions, but they can get too powerful and cross from protecting their workers against unfair policies/pay and taking advantage of their employers.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 14:52:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
So in a narrow sense, it isn't the same, but it is in a broader sense. You want to hold on what comes to you but want others to willingly give up something that has significant value to them. They SHOULD give it up because "there are plenty of people who can and would do it for less"? There are plenty of people who can and would do what you do for less. So, you SHOULD take a bigger pay cut.
That is all it boils down to.
Oh, and most of what comes in an inheritence isn't cash, so all capital gains haven't been taxed. And if you look, that is most of the usual inheritence tax. The government SHOULD get that when it changes owners.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-13 14:33:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 13:58:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
It DOES have something to do with it in the the respect that you want to be able to keep what it yours while making others give up what is theirs. They got that job and those are THEIR benefits. Why should they be FORCED to give them up without having their pay rise by an equal amount? That's a pay cut. You couldn't take it at your job, so why should they? Because your job is better?
They earned those benefits by doing a job you wouldn't be caught dead doing. Asking them to give them up is like someone saying that you should be giving up an extra 5% of your inheritence, which you "earned" by having someone die. The only difference is that one affects someone else and the other affects you directly.
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If I got a big pay cut I would fucking quit. They have that right, but they wouldn't do it because they know they are overpaid and there will be plenty of people to take their job. They should take it becasue there are plenty of people who can and would do it for less. I have had a job where my benefits were cut, the job was still worth it so I stayed. If they think the cuts are too deep, they should quit.
A job I wouldn't be caught dead doing? If I had no job skills and no education I would jump at an opportunity to work there.
Inheritance tax isn't just a tax on money I will be getting. It is tax on what someone else wants to give away. It is tax on money that was already taxed when people earned it. For the record my parents aren't rich, I paid for college myself and I won't be coming into millions. But I think it is BS for the Govt to say once you die they get everything you ever earned, and it has nothing to do with transit workers striking.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 13:58:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
It DOES have something to do with it in the the respect that you want to be able to keep what it yours while making others give up what is theirs. They got that job and those are THEIR benefits. Why should they be FORCED to give them up without having their pay rise by an equal amount? That's a pay cut. You couldn't take it at your job, so why should they? Because your job is better?
They earned those benefits by doing a job you wouldn't be caught dead doing. Asking them to give them up is like someone saying that you should be giving up an extra 5% of your inheritence, which you "earned" by having someone die. The only difference is that one affects someone else and the other affects you directly.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-13 12:27:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 12:11:03 (#)
Ranking: 0
Sounds like the same logic you use to say why you shouldn't have to pay for Welfare, etc. Why should they have to give what they have (good benefits) but you shouldn't have to give up any of your inheritence? Or why shouldn't your tax/social security/whatever money go to help others? You are asking THEM to give up either money or benefits for YOUR comfort, thinking that perhaps fares would be lowered if they did. Hint, they won't ever go down.
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Inheritance has nothing to do with this. If someone earns something they should be bale to give it away to whoever they want.
My beef with the transit strike is that they were overpaid, they are still overpaid. Why do you think the national union didn't want them to strike? Where else can uneducated people make that much without doing hard or dangerous work? They want a large salary, good benefits and no reprocussions if they fuck up or give bad service, they don't deserve that.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-13 12:11:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-13 09:46:45 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 19:00:02 (#)
Ranking: 2
It will never happen. The conservatives run this country, and people in this country are conservative to a fault. They're so selfish they cut their noses off to spite their faces.
Example: the NYC transit strike. Everyone was angry at the workers. Why? Here's the comment I heard most: "Well, I pay for half my healthcare ... why shouldn't they?"
Why SHOULD they? Why should they be forced to give up their benefits? I sure wouldn't. And they don't because they have power in numbers. No benefits? Fuck you, no bus drivers. More power to them.
----------------------------
Why shouldn't they give up their benefits? Because they are already extremely overpaid. Nevermind the fact that I have never seen a single one of them be even slightly curteous or polite they are doing a job a fucking monkey can do and making over 50k a year. Fuck that.
Sounds like the same logic you use to say why you shouldn't have to pay for Welfare, etc. Why should they have to give what they have (good benefits) but you shouldn't have to give up any of your inheritence? Or why shouldn't your tax/social security/whatever money go to help others? You are asking THEM to give up either money or benefits for YOUR comfort, thinking that perhaps fares would be lowered if they did. Hint, they won't ever go down.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-13 10:26:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-13 10:14:02 (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh man, I'd so love to tear into this one again. So much to pick apart.
But alas, I have to work, AGAIN. This "job" is really starting to get on my nerves.
-----------------
Save it up for the next post I make. You'll probably have plenty to say about that one, I assure you.
=)
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-13 10:14:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh man, I'd so love to tear into this one again. So much to pick apart.
But alas, I have to work, AGAIN. This "job" is really starting to get on my nerves.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-13 09:51:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm cooking up another post that will be coming soon.
I found this quote and thought it was very interesting: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." — Dom Helder Camara
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-13 09:46:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 19:00:02 (#)
Ranking: 2
It will never happen. The conservatives run this country, and people in this country are conservative to a fault. They're so selfish they cut their noses off to spite their faces.
Example: the NYC transit strike. Everyone was angry at the workers. Why? Here's the comment I heard most: "Well, I pay for half my healthcare ... why shouldn't they?"
Why SHOULD they? Why should they be forced to give up their benefits? I sure wouldn't. And they don't because they have power in numbers. No benefits? Fuck you, no bus drivers. More power to them.
----------------------------
Why shouldn't they give up their benefits? Because they are already extremely overpaid. Nevermind the fact that I have never seen a single one of them be even slightly curteous or polite they are doing a job a fucking monkey can do and making over 50k a year. Fuck that.
Submitted by Flack (user info) at 2006-02-13 03:00:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
yup
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2006-02-12 22:54:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This is awesome.
:)
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 19:10:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Malachewaii (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:53:36 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:45:22 (#)
Ranking: 2
I couldn't agree with you more. Our economy is being reshaped to create two classes: the haves and the have nots. Every economy has them, but the U.S. economy is being shaped in such a way that the have nots won't ever be able to achieve the level of education or expertise they need to become a have.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This country, as with most countries in this world that aren't communist, has ALWAYS had an economy of have's and have not's. How in the hell is now any different from the past 200 years?
*******************
In 1950, my father could quit an entry level job on Friday and have another on Monday, and make a killing. One day. You can't even get a good job now without a college degree. Why?
There are no more pension plans for entry level workers any more. Why?
There is nothing to protect you from getting wiped out as a result of a health ailment. Getting sick doesn't have to be your fault. Why should you lose your house to that? Why can't you dissolve medical bills in bankruptcy any more?
Sure, there have always been haves and have nots. It's just that, today, the have nots have less and less of a chance of becoming haves. And every law being passed is aimed at making the divide between the two larger.
Why? This economy needs a large part of the population to be economically dependent for life. They don't want workers who get comfortable working in an easy, relatively unskilled job for 40 years, save up, and retire. That isn't American! You should have to work HARDER to get ahead! The only trick up the sleeve that the people can't see is that they CAN'T get ahead. The system is designed to prevent more people from succeeding. And if you don't want to get ahead, you're screwed. You can't just work at any old job and make a living any more. That's not our economy.
What's wrong with the economy of the 1950s? You can't have it here anymore. Americans can't produce shit and sell it because it's too expensive to pay Americans. So those jobs go to Mexico, along with a host of other jobs, and you're left with a service economy in the homeland. The only good jobs go to the haves, because they can afford the education that qualifies them for the jobs, and they have the connections to get in the doors. Everyone else has to scrape by.
Quality of life. It's diminishing here every day, and it's sad.
I don't give a fuck any more because I aim to get rich. It's the only way out of this mess.
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 19:00:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-02-11 21:35:33 (#)
Ranking: 2
PLUS
FUCKING
TWO
I can't wait for 2006 Elections. Watch the Dems swing 15 new votes in the house, and 7-8 votes in the Senate. I swear to God, when that happens, Republicans will SCREAM about vote rigging.
And then in 08, when Al or Hillary sweeps into the White House, ohhhhh MAN! We'll be able to watch Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh explode on live TV!
**************
It will never happen. The conservatives run this country, and people in this country are conservative to a fault. They're so selfish they cut their noses off to spite their faces.
Example: the NYC transit strike. Everyone was angry at the workers. Why? Here's the comment I heard most: "Well, I pay for half my healthcare ... why shouldn't they?"
Why SHOULD they? Why should they be forced to give up their benefits? I sure wouldn't. And they don't because they have power in numbers. No benefits? Fuck you, no bus drivers. More power to them.
And then I hear this: "Well, I pay for their benefits with MY tax money. Fuck that."
Okay, dumbass. And you also pay for your senator's health benefits, which, by the way, they never pay a cent for and which they get to keep for their entire lives. How do I know? I work weekends at a country club. I KNOW state senators by first name. I KNOW judges, politicians, attorney generals. Do you see them giving up THEIR benefits for you? Nope. But you're paying for them. And you're also paying their salaries so they can change the laws to eventually screw you, the little guy, out of your own benefits. And instead of getting mad at them and voting them out of office, you pull the same levers on voting day, all the while directing your fury at teachers, bus drivers, and restaurant workers ... people who might be devastated for life by the cuts you can't wait to see happen.
Open up your fucking eyes.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:59:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2006-02-10 11:04:33 (#)
Ranking: 0
The government does not owe anyone anything. You get what you work and pay for.
----------------
if the government doesn't owe me anything then i shouldn't have to pay taxes. i mean if i'm paying into their systeman and they don't owe me anything for supporting them, then why should i pay?
Submitted by Malachewaii (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:53:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:45:22 (#)
Ranking: 2
I couldn't agree with you more. Our economy is being reshaped to create two classes: the haves and the have nots. Every economy has them, but the U.S. economy is being shaped in such a way that the have nots won't ever be able to achieve the level of education or expertise they need to become a have.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This country, as with most countries in this world that aren't communist, has ALWAYS had an economy of have's and have not's. How in the hell is now any different from the past 200 years?
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:52:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 11:19:41 (#)
Ranking: 1
Law of diminishing returns Loki.
What happens when everyone is a lawyer or an accountant?
Either everyone goes out of business and no one pays taxes, or lawyers and accountants don't make more than ditch-diggers anymore.
*****************
Whatever happened to quality of life? Whatever happened to just getting a job, working your whole life, saving, and being happy?
I'll tell you what happened. Global economy. Profit margins. Stockholder pressure. A shift to a non-unionized, non-powerful, expendable workforce. No chance to retire, no chance to save, complete dependence on big business, and no economic security in old age. We're reverting back to the 1920s, people.
Welcome to America!
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:49:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2006-02-10 11:04:33 (#)
Ranking: 0
With the average tuition cost at around $10k/year for a state school, the government SHOULD cut their funding.
Federal loans? Please. Once you graduate, they sell them off to the highest bidder.
The government does not owe anyone anything. You get what you work and pay for.
****************
But here's the point:
1. Those loans were created for exceptional students that can't afford college. There ARE people that want an education and belong in school that can't afford it. Trust me.
2. These same students have a zero percent chance of getting a traditional loan. What are they going to use as collateral, their fucking iPods?
3. So now what? Can't go to school, so ... you work? Entry level jobs don't pay the bills. And you certainly can't save $40,000 for college without exceptional effort. And when you've finally saved enough and gotten your degree, no one wants to hire you becuase you're 30 and have no work experience. Oh, and by the way, now you have healthcare costs, rent, food, and life to worry about.
Welcome to America.
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2006-02-12 18:45:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I couldn't agree with you more. Our economy is being reshaped to create two classes: the haves and the have nots. Every economy has them, but the U.S. economy is being shaped in such a way that the have nots won't ever be able to achieve the level of education or expertise they need to become a have.
It's easy to figure out why. The haves want economic dependence so they can increase their profit margins. Just look at Wal-Mart and Southwest. The worst part about it is that the American people suck it all up like little pigs.
Your point about student loans is right on. Most students won't be able to get them, and most parents either can't or won't be willing to co-sign. Welcome to entry level pay, Ms. 18 year old right out of high school. What a fucking shame.
And before you conservative fuckheads start spouting off the "go get a job" and "everyone is equal" and "you gotta work harder" bullshit, I don't want to hear it. The playing field is NOT equal. I currently live in the richest zip code in the country. I've also lived in the ghetto. In Gladwyne the 17 year old girls are driving Benzes and they all look like Playboy models. In North Philly they're 200 pounds, they work two jobs to support their ill grandparents because the parents are drug addicts, they're physically and emotionally scarred, and they're killing each other. Get a life.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong to shape the economy this way. I just wish the government and big business would admit this is what they indend. Then I can watch with glee at the mass exodus of Americans to Canada, Europe, and the Carribbean.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2006-02-12 03:17:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
So the furture holds more lower middle class, minimum wage citizens.
I don't know how it is in other states but in Massachusetts minimum wage
is just a sliver above poverty level.
How will that affect the economy?
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2006-02-12 02:36:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This is fucking outrageous.
Unfuckingbelievable.
Submitted by MrSparkle847 (user info) at 2006-02-11 22:28:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Fortunately, I only got the tail end of "Every child left behind," I was in high school when he came to office.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-11 22:01:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I highly doubt there will be a 15 vote swing in the House, Jay. Maybe 4 or 5. And there's no way it'll be 7 or 8 in the Senate. 1 or 2 tops.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-02-11 21:35:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
PLUS
FUCKING
TWO
I can't wait for 2006 Elections. Watch the Dems swing 15 new votes in the house, and 7-8 votes in the Senate. I swear to God, when that happens, Republicans will SCREAM about vote rigging.
And then in 08, when Al or Hillary sweeps into the White House, ohhhhh MAN! We'll be able to watch Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh explode on live TV!
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-02-11 20:52:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Remember Rush Limbaugh's rant about the
"dumbing down of America."
Submitted by Lechuga (user info) at 2006-02-11 20:29:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
All I know is that the republicans are going to have a hell of a time getting back into the white house for a long, long time. Like David Cross says, most people vote for a president based on one thing:
"YOU'RE GONNA TAKE MY GUN AWAY? OH HELL NAH, I'M VOTING FOR THE RIGHT TO KEEP MY GUN NO MATTER WHAT!"
Which, of course, is bullshit. To be honest, I don't want Hilary in the white house, but seriously, I'm not interested in republicans being in there either. I think if this is evolution in terms of leadership, I think within 12 years we'll be voting for plants.
Good post assbag.
Submitted by littledan (user info) at 2006-02-11 18:38:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by EatMeCompletely (user info) at 2006-02-11 18:23:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-10 18:02:57 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EatMeCompletely (user info) at 2006-02-10 17:52:13 (#)
Ranking: 1
Caul,
Do you actively seek out places that you can be a douche-bag? I
===
yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2006-02-11 11:09:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This is the equivalent of Caulaincourt's opinion of America, redirected at Canada:
ABOOT ABOOT EH EH EH ABOOT ICE HOCKEY POUTIN ABOOT ABOOT EH!
It's really hard to listen to your opinions or take your arguments seriously when you say these things.
Submitted by fried-green-potatoes (user info) at 2006-02-11 09:32:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This think tank leans hard to the left, but I thought it was an interesting study
that might relate to the post.
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20051012
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-11 08:50:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Thank You, Education President. Looks Like Our Kids Are Really Fucked Now. (1337 hits)
Hahahahaaha...1337
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-11 08:49:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jacobt26 (user info) at 2006-02-11 08:27:14 (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm not going to list any praise for Bush, because these programs do need to stay, but your parents income is related to you're grades? Thats bullshit, I came from a single parent family where my mom worked as a waitress, and I was always in the top 10% of my class. You can be poor, drink and smoke pot and if you're smart you'll still do well. Maybe these kids parents are just dumb, and spawned dumb kids, a genetic lower class if you will?
Now to enslave them and make them work for shit wages doing manual labor, oh wait, they already do.
-------------------
Jacob - you're definitely in the minority there.
If you search on socioeconomic status and achievement, you'll find plenty of articles that draw the lines between those two things.
Look at a program like Head Start, which teaches kids from low income families basics that they need to be able to keep up in school. Lots of these kids' parents can't read, work minimum wage "slave" jobs and have trouble putting food on the table, or maybe they're just fucking stupid, as you suggested. Programs like this help children from low income families.
Also, I work at a community college, and sadly we have almost 50% of our students in developmental programs in either math, writing or reading. This means that 50% of the students who come to our institution are not prepared for college level courses. I should mention that I come from an area with an extremely high poverty rate. Is there a connection? Yes. Is it documented? Yes. When we write grants, we use these statistics from our area to try and get a little extra so that we can offer services that these students need to succeed.
I'm going back to what Bob said about teacher unions. Lots of the teacher in my area have been lifers at the high schools where they teach. Maybe they view the lower income and non-gifted students as throw aways that they don't need to challenge. Will "No Child Left Behind" help these kids? I certainly hope that it will. I think that Bob brought up a really good point that I'm going to explore. There may be a post to follow when I have the time.
Submitted by Jacobt26 (user info) at 2006-02-11 08:27:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm not going to list any praise for Bush, because these programs do need to stay, but your parents income is related to you're grades? Thats bullshit, I came from a single parent family where my mom worked as a waitress, and I was always in the top 10% of my class. You can be poor, drink and smoke pot and if you're smart you'll still do well. Maybe these kids parents are just dumb, and spawned dumb kids, a genetic lower class if you will?
Now to enslave them and make them work for shit wages doing manual labor, oh wait, they already do.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-02-11 08:08:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I care about none of this.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-11 07:51:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Teeph - My parents taught me to use my big girl voice all the time, even when I felt like throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old in Toys R' Us. Seriously, when we spoke to each other in a disrespectful way in my house, we got the shit slapped out of our mouths. I guess whatever reinforcing my parents did worked, because now as an adult, I won't tolerate it.
As far as not talking about the programs...I don't see what needs to be explained. As I stated multiple times, socioeconomic status and educational achievement are heavily related and need to be approached together. Most low income folks need extra tutoring, mentoring and assistance when in school. This is a fact. By helping these low income students, we are in essence helping ourselves. We are giving them the opportunity to be self-sustained.
Zoidberg - Thank you for pointing that out...you're right, so I apologize for making that statement in my post. Stafford Loans are the most popular. But again, Perkins Loans are usually reserved for students who are financially disadvantaged/crippled. They are revising Perkins Loans for students who graduate high school with an accelerated degree...which doesn't make much sense to me. Many of these students are very intelligent and will probably recieve many scholarships to the school of their choice. I am interested to see why these loans were revised.
The union issue is a completely different post, but my opinion is that they are very very very hurtful to the education process. I work at a school that has 2 unions, and let me tell you, people who have done absolutely nothing since the day they were hired are still teaching/working at the school decades later. It is shameful and I completely agree with Bob when he says that white collar workers don't need a union.
That's all the time I have for now.
Submitted by Rawrg (user info) at 2006-02-11 01:06:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Can't say that I'm really lit up about this issue.
My beef with our current education system is it doesn't teach people how to think. It teaches them how to react. You can solve that teaching basic problem solving at an early age and continuing it beyond word problems involving trains, but then you'd get a nation of people who realize that our current government system is too easily corrupted.
All I can say is - I can't wait for someone to start a revolution. (The war cry of a silent majority)
Submitted by whiskey_jack (user info) at 2006-02-10 19:12:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah believe me it's worse than most of you know. I work for a non-profit and basically spend all my time tutoring elementary school kids on reading, and there isn't nearly the manpower available. In fact Bush is completely cutting out a similiar orginization; the NCCC, completely. He's basically doing the exact opposite to helping the education crisis.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-02-10 18:02:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EatMeCompletely (user info) at 2006-02-10 17:52:13 (#)
Ranking: 1
Caul,
Do you actively seek out places that you can be a douche-bag? I
===
yes.
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2006-02-10 17:57:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
My roomate is in the NYC Teaching Fellowship program, it's geared towards taking college grads of all ages and experiences and putting them through a work/grad school program so that they can place as many teachers as possible.
Sounds good?
Not really, she has a master's degree in Chemistry from JHopkins and had a job with the military teaching the AF how to use Anti-Chemical Warfare Detection Instruments, and the Teacher's union in NYC fought tooth and nail to keep her from getting any position at the schools she applied to (going as far as getting a job at a school and on her first day the union rep coming into her meeting with the Assistant Principal and throwing a piece of paper on the desk saying "I'm filing a grievance against her" and walking out). If the school system is faultering due to lack of qualified teachers how is it that unions can keep good teachers out of schools due to "excessing tenured teachers". Another problem with the program was that every step of the way the information provided to her contradicted the previous information, so it would take ages for her to find out the protocal for obtaining a job.
Teaching should be like any other job, you don't excell at it, then you get fired. In NYC at least it seems like as long as you can manage to get tenured you're good to go.
The money situation for teachers in NYC isn't as bad as you think under the new contract negotiations she will be making 48K starting due to her MS, and will top out for a couple of years when she recieves her teaching Masters. Not a huge amount of cash but not too bad when you consider only 180 days of work a year and some of the best health coverage anyone can get. (i.e. $1 and $2 co-pays on perscriptions)
Submitted by EatMeCompletely (user info) at 2006-02-10 17:52:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Caul,
Do you actively seek out places that you can be a douche-bag? I think everyone here gets it. You hate Americans. You + Hate = USA. Or is it Hate - You = USA?
Oh nevermind. I was never good at math anyway.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-02-10 17:19:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No child left behind?
No child left behind, my ass.
If our government isn't willing to spend the money to improve the level that our teachers are currently on, how are our children supposed to become the intelligent nuclear physicists they need to build bombs? How are they supposed to learn to speak Arabic and Cantonese?
------
NCLB is going to get worse, a LOT worse, from now on.
You see, for the first couple of years, the growth rate expected by NCLB was quite low, in order to get people used to it.
However, from 2007 on, the rate goes straight up - by 2015, 100% of all American students are expected to be at the targets set by the Administration. Needless to say, that's quite impossible, and even more so because the Government DOES NOT GIVE THE SCHOOLS ANY MONEY TO MEET THESE STANDARDS.
NCLB is plain politics, all it does is hurt the Teachers unions, at the expense of our children.
Fuck, I can't even talk about it now, I get way pissed off.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:44:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
That would be awesome, we need an uber party.
"here are my policies, if you don't like it then get a username, log in, and fight me like a man"
Clinton ah Clinton. I love the man, can't help myself. He's a bit on the conservative side for my tastes but that middle ground is really the only way to get anything accomplished. I just wish he had been smarter about his shall we say social calendar. I don't know that it was all entirely his fault. Considering all the shenanigans that went on during the Kennedy era and the unwritten gentlemen's rule not to disclose details of the president's private life, I don't think he knew how ugly that would get.
What makes my blood boil is how the very people who were going full court press on that whole blowjob issue were not exactly of high moral standing themselves. Hypocritical bastards.
Still though at the end of the day, he shouldn't have given them the ammo they needed to mount that attack.
get it "mount"
this post has gotten a million miles off course
boomslang that quote is the biggest pile of bullshit ever written
and completely taken out of context - thanks for throwing up an overused air ball though: "Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a spoiled little shit living off his mama and daddy's money; show me an old liberal and I'll show you someone who remembers where they came from." loki
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:42:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
In olden times, people would give a tithe or 10% of their income to the poor.
Today we get taxed at 27-40%. I consider paying social security and medicare my contribution to the poor.
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:34:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:13:46 (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm sorry, but the argument stops when the maturity level drops. Not once on this post have I resorted to name calling and not once have I made assumptions about anything you have said.
-------------------------------------------------------
that is admirable.
which gives me a feeling to remind myself of the saying,
"If you're not a liberal when you're in your twenties you haven't got a heart; if you're not a conservative by the time you're 40 you haven't got a brain."
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:25:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Good news Loki.
I'm pretty sure it is, because I'm pretty sure he inhaled.
Once you get your speechmaking abilities down pat, you should have no troubles. Heck, I'd even vote for you, provided you promised to Uber from the Oval Office so that I could tell you which way to go on certain key policy decisions.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:22:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Even worse, I'm not a big fan of the Kennedy's.
think damnit think
elitist rich drunken louts from New England
bah I say BAH
although I do admire JFK's speechmaking abilities
Clinton could crank out a hell of a speech too. Just watching him in action makes me insanely jealous. If I could command a room like that I'd I'd well I'd be the damn President of the United States that's what
assuming that the whole background check thing is just a formality and all
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:14:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I'd take a pay cut to $40k if I could have 3 months off in the summertime, a month off a Christmas, and every piddly holiday in between.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:11:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Ah, darn it. Cuberat went and brought the Founding Fathers into it, and you even distanced yourself from his/her possition by saying that you weren't in favor of a 100% inheritance tax. Damn. Thought I might have had you.
Ah HA! But you DID say that the very notion of royalty is un-American.
=)
<Cough>JFK<Cough>"Camelot"<Cough>EntireKennedyFamily<Cough>
Dang. Frog in my throat or something.
I really wish you would have been the Founding Father's person and in favor of 100% inheritance tax. It would have been a lot more satisfying for me. =(
Zoid- I only had the Staffords. Thanks for making that point.
Submitted by Astropath (user info) at 2006-02-10 16:08:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
This isn't the Yankees vs. the Red Sox, and the voters in this country need to get their fucking priorities straight and stop voting for their "team."
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More true words regarding the election process have never been spoken.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:58:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
that's 40k a year in the tristate area. that is not a decent wage. it's lower in most other places, and starting salary is barely above poverty.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:56:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Are we talking about their white children or their black children? Maybe we're talking about their white children by someone other than their wives.
Was I even the one who brought the sacred founding fathers into this? If so I don't remember and whatever they were or were not does not change the fact that the concept of royalty is distasteful and un-American.
and I stick to my point that all royalty or those thinking of themselves as royalty are not worthy of holding the mop bucket that they guy who cleans the floors here in the building uses.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:55:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
And just to contribute to the discussion, I've read a lot of articles lately that basically make the point that the educated are the new nobility.
The better educated you are, the better paying jobs you will get. The wealthy are more and more often the only ones who can afford to go to a good school. When they graduate, they get high paying jobs. A couple of decades later, their children are college bound. The wealthy send their kids to get the education others cant afford, and have little chance of getting. And so it continues. The title of nobility being passed from generation to the next is now an ivy league diploma.
Really its scary the way congress and the president keep cutting financial aid. The short term gains aren't going to seem that nice when 20-30 years down the road we have a shortcoming of college educated workers to compete in the world market.
Submitted by Zoidberg (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:50:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Perkins Loans:
If you went to college on a loan, it was probably a Perkins Loan. Once these are gone, traditional students are going to have to get non-traditional school loans from banks and loan companies that have enormous and gratuitous interest rates.
While I agree fully with everything you've said, Perkins loans only make up a very small percentage of loans given out, and they're limited in nature. Most people who go on loans go on Stafford loans.
That being said, Perkins loans are given to students with the most financial need, so in a way its like taking away soup kitchens from the poor. The cost of education is rising to an unheard of level, and the Commander in Chief is slashing and burning the amount of financial aid available. It's just sad.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:49:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Pent - I was only funnin'. But by "back it up" I meant, "refute or deny my assertations that there are differences between "education" and "social engineering." You title the post "Thank you 'Education President'" and then don't spend any time talking about how the programs you've chosen to highlight improve the quality of a person's education (no, I think your first example did that) rather than the ease of their access to it. I think that's where the whole issue here is to be found.
As for me calling you names, we kid because we love. Look, I LIKE to argue politics and and I tend to respect the people who can give me a good run very much. Please don't ever think that I'm picking on you personally when I say that your argument is complete bullshit.
Seriuosly. No offense intended.
Loki - I was actually getting toward the question of how many of those wealthy, white, land-owning, slave-owning monied men who founded this country DISINHERITED their children. Research that, and then tell me how the notion of inherited wealth was distasteful to them. I believe that you may be romanticizing them a wee bit.
Whoever it was who said all Republicans need to go get DUIs, etc. - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're an idiot.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:46:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Onion: I'd say that 40k/year is a decent salary for only working 180 days+/- a year.
Loki: Let them eat whatever they want, but don't put the bill on my tab.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:43:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Sure Bob, "Let them eat a type of egg-based bread".
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:41:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Jesus fucking Christ on a bike, all I wanted to do was point out a few programs and the impact that this will eventually have on EVERYBODY if this budget ends up being passed.
And everyone ends up getting all pissed off.
It's Friday, go and enjoy yourselves this weekend while I attend a funeral and dig out from under about a foot of snow.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:36:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
bob, apparently you never went to a crowded public school where they're shoving 30 kids in with one teacher who's getting paid 40k a year before taxes. yeah cut teachers' unions, cuz of course teaching is a desirable job in america.
Submitted by HonorableMention (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:35:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Well, isn't this a pretty little shitfest?
First of all, conservativism has no place in the modern world. Hold onto your traditions, your idea that marriage is between a man and woman, that people can be fit into compartments and boxes. Conservativism is dying, and people like the pres have really started hammering those final nails into the coffin. How can a person be expected to want to follow a man who looks like a monkey, is probably not as smart as one, and who is out of touch with reality?
Fuck this shit. All of you republicans need to crawl back into your holes with all of your guns and oil and conspiracies about the US and fucking get DUIs and do crack and all of that other shit you guys think is "moral."
Fuck you all.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:32:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
OCG: Setting the wages artificially low would bring a lot of our jobs back from Asia. It's not my problem that you can't manage your money, nor should it be.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:31:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-10 13:21:40 (#)
Ranking: 0
I said that very few people didn't work hard to get where they are.
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really? (puts head down and slowly walks backwards out of the room)
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:26:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by alragusa (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:55:08 (#)
Ranking: 0
Before I get to the cuts, about this "popular vote":
How can you be in education and not understand this? Any idiot with a third grade education knows that we need the Electoral College or else politicians would just pander to a specific voting block. Meaning, "I'll give you whatever you want LA and NY; fuck you Kansas!"
++++++++++++++
Thank you so much for clearing this up and thank jesus in heaven that we don't have politicians pandering to specific voting blocks. Gosh what would happen if that were the case, we'd probably have some crazy shit like a President who keeps his head so far up his specific voting blocks' asses to the point of denying that there is such a thing as global warming. I'll go ahead and call the kids at Mt. Kilimanjaro and let them know that the fact that the "permanent snow" on the peak isn't really melting. I'm sure they'll be relieved.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:22:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
No, I think we're talking about the second born and therefore not set to inherit anything so they left England and founded the colonies people.
Wasn't Benjamin Franklin's dad a candle maker? Something like that, I think his money came from his job as a newspaper editor.
We are not a nation of aristocrats. We're a nation of rejects, vagabonds, and rathskallions with a genetic disposition towards wanderlust.
It's what gives us our charm and unique disposition.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:13:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Back what up?
That'll I'll always be a liberal cunt whore woman and that you'll always be a conservative heartless white male?
Because that's where it's going to head, I'm sure.
I'm sorry, but the argument stops when the maturity level drops. Not once on this post have I resorted to name calling and not once have I made assumptions about anything you have said.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:11:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:21:58 (#)
Ranking: 2
The best thing that can be done for education is cut down the size of it's administration and centralize it, but keep the actual educators local. That, and outlaw teacher's unions. Christ, if they don't get a 10% raise they all strike. It isn't the 1890's, and you are not a 12 year old working in a slaughterhouse for 16 hours a day. White-collar workers do not need a union.
Hey, why stop at white collar unions? You Republicans want to do away with ALL unions so that corporations can set wages artificially low and save money. Because it's all about capitalism UNTIL something bad happens because corners are cut and someone dies. Then it's time for the government to step in and regulate. For 20 years until we forget about it.
You wanna do away with unions? Let's start with the sports unions. Make those fucks earn a proper wage for playing a game. Hey, it's not the 1950's, they have their precedents. No one will try to undo all the good the unions did back in the day, right?
Next, let's get rid of the tax shelters that let millionaires pay less in taxes than me. Oh, you structured it so all your money hits tax-sheltered stocks and funds? Well, start paying a whole lot of tax on the dividends. Yes, in yoru case, dividends are income and you should damn well be taxed like it.
Finally, Let's get rid of the tax breaks for breeding. I'm sick of shouldering the tax burden for everyone with a kid. Yay, you popped one out. That means there's more people in your family using public works than mine, so fucking pay for your share.
But no, Republicans can't have that. In fact, they keep adding more tax breaks for anyone with a child. Tax-free dividends for all rich people. Fuck the childless middle class white guys with no trust fund or handed-down portfolio. They can pay all the fucking taxes.
Assholes.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:11:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing!
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:10:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Yeah. That, or back it up with something.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:08:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Let this post serve as a reminder to me next time I wish to say something in an intelligent manner.
I should probably keep it to myself.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:04:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Aaaaaaand before I forget, help me understand something about this whole "when people inherit vast amounts of money, it creates de facto royalty, and that would be something that would make our Founding Fathers roll over in their graves" thing.
Forgive me for being a simpleton, but these "Founding Fathers" of which you speak . . . they were the fat, old, rich, white, slave-owning aristocrats that started this country, right? I mean, we're talking about the same people here?
Because somehow, I'm having some trouble reconciling the two accounts.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-02-10 15:04:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
"No. We are the least rascist country in the world"
Well I'm never going to listen to anything YOU say again.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:57:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, at least the universe has righted itself and Cuberat and I are back at being 180 degrees to each other.
I still have no time to play, but wow. I reeeeeally don't know how anyone can look at it as okay to take someone's inheritance. The balls of some people. The rationalization skills. I am in awe.
Say I see some kids playing in the sandbox at the park. One of the kids has a really cool shovel and pail set. The kids actually not making very good use of the shovel and pail, the kid is off eating the sand or whatever. Should I walk over and take the shovel and pail away from the kid forever RIGHT THEN, or do I have to wait for its parents to die first?
Kid didn't earn the shovel and pail, doesn't appreciate the shovel and pail and the only reason it even HAS the shovel and pail in the first place is because its parents gave them to it.
Yowza. You people really scare me sometimes.
Submitted by alragusa (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:55:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Before I get to the cuts, about this "popular vote":
How can you be in education and not understand this? Any idiot with a third grade education knows that we need the Electoral College or else politicians would just pander to a specific voting block. Meaning, "I'll give you whatever you want LA and NY; fuck you Kansas!" Now, while you may say "but more people liked Gore in 2000", the electoral college is suppose to keep politicians honest and protect the minority (which stupid liberals always bitch about). Of course, today most people don't care much for politics so the entire system is corrupt.
About the cuts:
You don't make any sense. It's not what you know, but whom you know. The answer to the education problem in America is not more money. You are a complete idiot if you don't know the government pours more and more money into the system each day and the system still sucks. So why are kids stupid? Maybe all the extracurricular activities, sports, video games, Internet usage, etc.? Then again, kids today know more then ever. The thing is children today know more about the real word (versus book smarts) then previous generations. Children use to think a stork brought women babies. Now, any 6 year old know about fucking. Oh, and about being born into money...no shit, Sherlock! BUT, you can also move up. My grandparents and parents came from Europe with nothing. They didn't even speak English. My parents eventually bought a home. I was the first to go to College and I now own my own home. I am 24.
Later, idiot.
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:54:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:44:19 (#)
Ranking: 1
Why do americans feel the need to bring race into EVERYTHING, is it really that bd in amreica?
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No. We are the least rascist country in the world, yet the liberals and Democrats would have you believe the opposite. Them keeping their constituencies depends upon it.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:44:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Why do americans feel the need to bring race into EVERYTHING, is it really that bd in amreica?
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:21:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Loki: The funny thing about family fortunes is that when an offspring that did nothing to earn it gets their hands on it, they tend to piss it away rapidly. Easy come, easy go.
Ok. It's no-bullshit time.
The sad thing about public education is that it is typically administered locally by people who are elected into the position. Very few of these people have an education background, and are only using their position as "prom queen" as a stepping stone to a higher political office. I've seen it firsthand, and I know people in those positions who have told me so.
Then the local cronyism comes into play. For example, I had to sit with my kid for a few hours last night to teach him how to write in cursive. But that's okay, because his teachers are raking in $80k/year, he's been there for 30 years and his only motivation is killing time until he can retire or get a buyout. And god forbid should you question him, because his nephew is on the local school board. Meanwhile, there are recent graduates out there who are far more qualified and ambitious that are washing dishes until the next round of retirements come around so they can find a job.
The best thing that can be done for education is cut down the size of it's administration and centralize it, but keep the actual educators local. That, and outlaw teacher's unions. Christ, if they don't get a 10% raise they all strike. It isn't the 1890's, and you are not a 12 year old working in a slaughterhouse for 16 hours a day. White-collar workers do not need a union.
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:15:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
hmm i was thinking the same about you.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:14:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You know what, boomslang, I don't have to defend myself to you. It's better to sit here, silently, and watch you make an ass out of yourself. I'm above arguing with the infantile.
Good luck. Save the comeback, I'm done with this post.
Submitted by Mrdurden24 (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:13:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
And the truly sad part is it will never get any better. democrat or republican in '08 it doesn't matter. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:10:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
no really i think you really are a 10 year old. point out exactly where i said anything that you are accusing me of saying. please.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:08:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:04:53 (#)
Ranking: 0
are you on mommy's computer again? Isn't it nap time?
___________________________-
That's right, go for the personal insults when intelligence fails you. Come up with a valid and sensible argument instead of the tired "kill all liberals" and maybe, MAYBE somebody might take you seriously.
Child.
Not a reference to age, just your mentality.
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:04:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Another brainwashed person that think being "liberal" or saying ANYTHING against Bush is unAmerican and evil.
Go suck on a shotgun, asshat.
This country was founded by liberals.
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are you on mommy's computer again? Isn't it nap time?
Submitted by boomslang (user info) at 2006-02-10 14:03:54 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
To recap my rant, most of those people DONT deserve what they inherit, they didn't earn it, they don't appreciate it.
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that is retarded. Of course they deserve it, it's their parents' money. Who do you think deserves it, the poor and downtrodden?
You people are all out of your minds.
We spend more money on the poor than we do on the military.
Submitted by