Publishers are the Tools of Satan (1786 hits)
Category: NoneLabels: Uber_Only
Rating: 1.57 on 78 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by kaos-king (antius777) (View user info) at 2006-03-20 17:12:58 EST
So, I haven't been on Uber in quite a while. It's good to see most of you sick fuckers are still here. I even got to see goatse yesterday when I logged on. Oh, the memories...
Anyhow, I've been trying to get my shit actually published, along with running a website for horror writers. It takes up a good amount of my time when I'm not drinking with college girls. Unfortunately, getting your work published, as many of you may know, is much harder than you would think. Not only is there the fact that, well... you may suck, I've come to the conclusion that publishers are all bastards.
This all started about four months ago. I was in a horror writers' forum and the discussion of self-publishing came up. Now, this was a road I had considered for some time. Creative control is something I've always been concerned about. However, such veteran writers like Scott A. Johnson and Kealan Patrick Burke shot down that idea quickly. They explain that once you self-published, you became black listed from the "legitimate" literature community for various reasons. Not only were self-publishers not willing to "play by the rules,'" but then one had to wonder why your work wasn't good enough to be picked up by a traditional publisher. Self-publishers would never make the money or have the readership that regular published authors have. Hmmm... fair enough...
Knowing that places like Random House and Knopf were full of shitheads, I decided to look into some of the specialized, small presses. I found seven small press horror publishers located in spots around the country and sent them all a writer's proposal. Each proposal contained three book propositions, a collection of short stories, my first novel "Petty Like A God," and a novel based off of the "Diary Of A Kaote" stuff. I tossed in some .jpg illustrations just to spice it up, too. (I was an art school drop-out.) I nervously awaited the responses.
In the meantime, I was in negotiations with this guy to have one of my short stories posted in a certain e-zine whose name I will not mention. I had chosen "The Flesh Suit Whispers," and everything seemed good to go, when I get an e-mail asking me if the story had ever appeared in print anywhere else before. "Just the writing forums Ubersite and pulseHEAD," I replied. Problem. It would seem that even places like this, where we post crap for our idiot internet buddies to -2 us, is considered a form of self-publishing. My story was therefore considered a reprint and I couldn't get paid for it.
Not that I cared about the fucking twenty-five dollars - but I did. See, to join The Horror Writers Association, you have to send them proof that you have sold one original piece of work for profit equaling or more than twenty-five dollars. Oh, I could still have the short story printed in the e-zine, but I wouldn't get paid dick for it. Hell, the only reason I was doing it was to get into HWA!
So back to the book proposals. Raw Dog Screaming Press gets back to me in just a few days. It seems their deadline for submissions has past and they're not taking any more work for the year. Uh... what? Whatever, at least they got back to me. That was professional of them.
Much unlike Unspeakable Press. I get this e-mail telling me how excited they are to get my proposal and to send them more work. This would have been great, except for one thing - the e-mail seemed to have been written by a drunk, illiterate with dyslexia. I mean, I've seen better spelling, punctuation and grammar in ANY random Uber post than in this e-mail. And this was a reply from the "Editor." On top of that, he kept going on about how they were a "Splatter Punk" company. Well, I don't write Splatter Punk and you're a cunt, so moving on...
Afterbirth Books. These guys were the real deal. They had come highly recommended and they finally got back to me after three weeks. I was told that they weren't interested in any short story collections but that the "Diary Of A Kaote" novel concept sounded like something they would publish. Could I send them more information on the proposal? Fuck yeah I could! Afterbirth got a story outline, three chapters, and a slew of .jpgs. Then I get a response back saying that the person who had optioned "Diary" was NOT an "Authorized Representative" of Afterbirth Books, and that they were sorry for any "Miscommunications."
Fuck.
And the other four companies never bothered to reply back to me. So, do I slit my wrists while I cry big salty emo tears? No. Do I go on a sociopathic rampage, killing a bus load of Asian tourists? Possibly. Chances are, I'll just keep annoying the hell out of some other small press publishers until somebody is either 1) stupid enough to write me a check, or 2) finally caves and gives me a book deal.
Here, have an illustration to better show you how I feel...
User Reviews
Submitted by mockidol (user info) at 2006-04-11 16:56:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fucking kill the bastards.
Then write a story about it and sell it to their competition.
Submitted by Luckystar (user info) at 2006-03-21 17:02:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Hey you're my friend on myspace haha. Howcome you haven't updated stories lately??
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2006-03-21 15:33:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I understand your frustration, and in all sincerity I wish you good luck with your further proposals. Ever thought of going international? You could try Canada or England.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-03-21 14:54:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Have you ever considered "taking hostages" at Crown Books?
Submitted by Brdn_Nkd (user info) at 2006-03-21 14:46:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
this discussion has continued: http://www.ubersite.com/m/85616
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-03-21 14:42:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
What the fuck happened here!!!
This is awesome. Personally, I would pay a fee, not so much to read quality work, but to support up and coming writers. If I could pay the writers that submit their work to my site, I would in a second. As it stands, I just try and promote the hell out of them. I'm currently hosting "HAU - Horror Authors United" on MySpace, because 1- it gathers a lot of readers, and 2 - it's totally free. I'm talking to two other writers about starting up HAU as it's own monthly e-zine. However, being broke is causing a problem...
Seriously, a huge thanks to everyone for the kind words on my writing. And I'm really glad this post opened up a discussion about the future of Uber.
Oh, and not to miss a linkwhore oppertunity... http://www.myspace.com/horrorauthorsunited
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-21 14:27:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
a continuation of the publishing conversation: http://www.ubersite.com/m/85616
Submitted by Brdn_Nkd (user info) at 2006-03-21 11:41:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
damn. looks like i did miss this discussion. If someone decides to do an uber compilation I'd be intersted in being involved somehow.
Also I'd be willing to buy a few ubershares.
Submitted by Brdn_Nkd (user info) at 2006-03-21 11:36:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I know it looks like I've missed a lot of this conversation but I have to pipe in here. I've seen some good suggestions.
I like:
premium edition site
The way I see this really working though is that entries are edited and posted as ebooks. Time consuming with cost/effort involved. subscribers could get a weekly email with summaries of new posts. pay flat monthly fee.
store
An Uberstore would whoop the llama's ass. the merhandise would not be that complicated. As far as basing it from posts I don't see a problem with that as long as the poster accepts a "publishing" deal. example. I'll pay you $25 and %10 profit if I can turn your Re: 16 year olds into ubermerch.
Compilation
I have suggested this before. There are several great series on this site I think if we could put a compilation out there again using the $25 + %10 proffit(or some similar model) for contributing authors uber and those authors would benefit. would that not fit Kaos's needs? I would REALLY like to see this happen. Yes I have a couple of series I'd submit for consideration.
don't like:
pay to post/read
except for a premo section I think it would likely be the death of this site if there was a fee for any participation.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 10:42:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-21 03:07:04 (#)
Ranking: 0
have you ever considered whitlof publishing?
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Which is???
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-03-21 08:47:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the idea of people paying a nominal fee to read posts is flawed and cannot work. people will base their viewing choices on the ratings and we all know how flawed the rating system is - its almost worthless. furthermore, this will open up the possibility of sabotage as people pay a few bucks to lower someones rating to the extent that noone will read it, thinking possibly erroneously that it is a shit article.
the concept of 'premium' members being able to vote off some random 'noob' who posts shit is also flawed. there are many people who have started out on uber as being total fuckwads that generally came around. this is where ubersites 'experiment' comes into its own. i dnt think its a good idea to fuck with that. pulsehead s a waste of time because of this care-bear approach.
im not really offering solutions, though the book idea is a good one, a collaborative work by many users, and in particular the 'series' idea is great. i for one would not only write more, i would also finish more.
however, is there really a market for it? i, along with many people, have a slew of posts with ratings of 1.9+ on 10 replies and about 200 hits. it seems to me that most of ubersite doesnt really want this, and if we take the 'most of ubersite' as a litmus test of the general real-world public, maybe we dont have a product that is worth it. this is gonna sound bitchy and sour-grapy, but trust me it isnt - there is also the issue of 'popular' users getting lots and lots of hits and reviews and high ratings for posts that are in my opinion nowhere near publishable quality to others that dont get much recognition at all. im generally pretty happy with the amount of attention i get, so this is not about me. i guess what im saying is you cant use the ratings and ubersite popuarity as a reliable gauge for the quality of a piece of writing and its worthiness of being published.
how do you define what is and isnt? do you have a panel of members saying yea or nay? this is also untenable as it politicises the site, and furthermore the views of this panel may indeed be non-conducive to the actual real-world popularity of a piece of writing.
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-21 03:25:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
hres my suggestion for a t-shirt:
"T-shirst with logos are for cunts"
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-21 03:23:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
a potential problem with the system i suggested is artifical manipulation of the dollar hits/ranking system. eg i could rate apullo's post 50 times at a cost of x dollars, and he could do the same for mine. so neither of us would spend anything (except whatever agents fee bart might take) but we would get our posts up on the best ever money making post lists.
i don't know whether it's possible to stop that
Submitted by Davros (user info) at 2006-03-21 03:14:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Good luck with that KK. (Just thought that I would get that in as your post has been somewhat hijacked by other discussions).
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There have been some interesting ideas thrown about down below me.
I think the most important thing is not to change the "essence" of what Uber is. It needs to be remembered that the site, as it is, keeps us coming back for more in it's current form and to change that would be a mistake.
Of all the ideas given by other people, I dislike shandy's pay per read idea the least, as I will often return to a post multiple times to comment/re-read/etc so should I be charged every time I want to see what other people thought of a post I liked?
I would not be overly opposed to paying a subscription service for Uber Premium, but it would have to be a seperate entity. It is not that I really enjoy trawling through the dross to find a decent post, but sometimes the bad posts can be entertaining by their very awfulness.
The best ideas are the book(s) and merchandise.
People are already making their own tshirts, thongs etc so there is obviously a market for them.
The Uber share idea also has some merit, but before I would invest in that, despite the fact that I believe in the "Brand", I would need to see some sort of business plan to convince me that my money is not going directly to the "Bart Cilfone Coke, Booze and Hooker Fund".
This is a long reply, I shall go now.
-Dave
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-21 03:07:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:50:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
Here's the thing about series on uber...
I don't read them because if I have to wait around for the next installment, I always forget what's happened. Plus, EVERYTHING is better in actual print. Everything. Even my posts. :P
There is nothing wrong with all of us wanting to publish a collection of short stories, or our Greatest Comedic Photoshop posts in one big volume and selling it to people who like to read shit, like Jack McCallum says, on the shitter.
There is no other more comfortable way to read a long series, or ANY post for that matter, than in printed form. Everything is just more....substantial in print.
This could be HUGE for ubersite and all its users. To have the ability to invest in our own publishing ventures and have an outlet to sell our works - in whatever format or media - that would be the ideal situation.
Think about it.
Uber Publishing Co.
It's worth a thought.
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have you ever considered whitlof publishing?
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-21 02:38:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
spooner -- i like sifting through the shit posts. that's half the fun.
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:57:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I wanna be an uber share holder.
and I'd buy the book of uber - at least, the book with all the series in it.
not that it really matters what I think
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:56:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i was the one who used espn insider as an example. my cousin got a subscription and i use his account. haha, in that respect, i think it's great.
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:54:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
haha, imagine if you incorporated uber, and some industrious entrepreneur decided to buy controlling interest, just to turn it into a porn site.
Ubersite: the future of gang bangs
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:54:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:38:05 (#)
Ranking: 2
Spooner, interesting idea about the uber book. Authors would have to be able to edit, though.
---
Definitely. Ever article would be proofread, revised, whatever. There are so many things about my good articles, even the BAW ones, that I would change in a heartbeat to make them just that much better.
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:52:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Is it just me or in discussing commercializing Uber, we're discussing doing all these things we hate about other websites? I mean, someone used ESPN Insider as an example. I fucking hate ESPN Insider and wll never pay for it. Hell, I use SI.com BECAUSE of ESPN Insider.
I think we could do, though, something that I absolutely fucking hate... "premium services." An awful lot of websites offer them. I'm talking something like I pay 5 bucks a month, and for that, I get some benefits...
Posts by __x__x__x__ users I hate are immediately filtered out.
Posts by __x__x__x__ users I love are highlighted.
Posts filtered by keywords (hint hint "filer: SPT")
Posts with a negative rating and more than ten reviews automatically filtered out.
Mail system I can send message to other users.
Options to turn off/on uberboard or Most Heated or Most viewed messages or most recently reviewed...
Ability to use <b>bold,</b> <i>italics,</i>, and <u>underline</u>.
Expanded statistics page. (You know what option I would FUCKING LOVE to have? Show me where I'm getting external hits from. I love seeing that forums have linked to something I've written, and showing me referral links lets me find them easily. I would easily pay five bucks a month for this alone, I'm not kidding. And so would all the other egotistical people.)
Expand/shrink front page to include more/less articles.
5 free uberboard posts per month
A personal homepage
Ability to post polls.
These are just the things I thought of sitting here for about ten minutes. I could think of so many other things I would pay for to be able to do, and perhaps we could even do levels. You know, 5 dollars for bronze, 10 dolars for silver, 15 for gold...
And, as much as I hate it, I do think we need some quality control on Uber. I know, it seems sacrilege and against the original point of Uber... but has the goal of Ubersite changed, now? If we're going to try and set it up as an independent piblisher of serious works, we need to make the site conducive to serious fucking work. So if jimmy824651295 comes on and, with his first post, gets votes from 15 premium members saying "get him the fuck out of here," then get him the fuck out of here before he can post eighteen more fucking articles.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:51:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
well, usually you go the bank and get a loan or something, but it's the same concept.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:50:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Here's the thing about series on uber...
I don't read them because if I have to wait around for the next installment, I always forget what's happened. Plus, EVERYTHING is better in actual print. Everything. Even my posts. :P
There is nothing wrong with all of us wanting to publish a collection of short stories, or our Greatest Comedic Photoshop posts in one big volume and selling it to people who like to read shit, like Jack McCallum says, on the shitter.
There is no other more comfortable way to read a long series, or ANY post for that matter, than in printed form. Everything is just more....substantial in print.
This could be HUGE for ubersite and all its users. To have the ability to invest in our own publishing ventures and have an outlet to sell our works - in whatever format or media - that would be the ideal situation.
Think about it.
Uber Publishing Co.
It's worth a thought.
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:47:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
it doesn't seem so logical to me. when you start a business you have to take some risk. you create a product, build it up, and then decide what you're going to do with it. You're asking people to buy a sandwich before the restaurant built the kitchen.
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:41:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
well, some would i suppose. like shlongy's if he has any.
and trumps.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:41:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:38:05 (#)
Ranking: 2
Spooner, interesting idea about the uber book. Authors would have to be able to edit, though.
ETS, uber shares...are you crazy?
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Never been accused of that.
It's just a way of raising the necessary capital to get the store off the ground. You can't publish an uber book and you can't print 5000 RE: 16 yr olds T-shirts without good ol' hard cash.
This is the way companies get capital...stocks. It's only a logical first step.
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:41:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
haha, oh stagger, we already know that alters won't pay.
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:38:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
My two cents:
I much prefer the idea of merch to the idea of pay-per-view. I'm certainly never going to pay money for the privelege of -2ing a shitposter.
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:38:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Spooner, interesting idea about the uber book. Authors would have to be able to edit, though.
ETS, uber shares...are you crazy?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:36:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The problem with Bart's vision is that the site would have to be covered from stem to stern with ads to generate ANYTHING substantial enough to even share with a select few people.
The beauty of this scheme is that more people would share in the opportunity to make money...EVEN IF THEY NEVER CREATE A SINGLE POST!
They could STILL have their own personalized uber-store as an offshoot to the main store. Like I said, all personal store transactions would go through the site, and users would receive a statement via email at the end of the month, etc.
It's doable.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:33:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Spooner, absolutely.
I could probably go through mine yours and Wardy's posts and find at least 100 hilarious pages worth of shit!
The thing is, it doesn't matter how much time people spend in front of their computers, they can always take a piece of uber with them if they have the full volume set of "Uber's Greatest hits...and Misses"...or whatever we'd want to call it.
There are some brilliant people on this website, and I have no shortage of faith in the marketability of its contents.
Of course, I do believe that this is the BEST way to reaize Bart's vision he wrote about below.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:30:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
that works too, spooner. but that isn't quite what i think bart meant. i think he's looking for uber to be an online publication of sorts, know what i mean?
not sure if you got that and just liked the book idea better, or whatever. but yeah, i definitely have thought that a giant uber book would be tight for sure. but the nice thing about keeping the publication restricted to the internet is that the costs of production are minimal in comparison. it's just a matter of getting the revenue off of it without pissing off the locals too much...
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:28:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Like I said below, ads should NOT be the focus.
The focus should be on EXTERNAL advertising with the express purpose of getting our numbers up.
Then it's a simple matter of statistics. More people = more traffic, which translates to more sales of merch.
I like the idea of each user having the ability to create his own uberstore.
The user could ship out all his own merch from his location, but the transaction would take place through uber. The user could then get a monthly statement of sales and a check or direct deposit for the amount sold, with itemized deductions, of course, for Bart's cut.
This is the only way to keep the integrity of the site's layout, without introducing all those cumbersome, annoying, and ugly ads, but making money.
Face it, uber is more or less a cult. People come here and, no matter how bad it gets, they find it difficult to go away. This is the logical next step.
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:23:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:13:45 (#)
Ranking: 2
as do i, spooner. i've always thought one would be tight. but i think bart was talking more about making this site a place where authors could get "published" and paid for their work, and of course bart would make money off of it as well...
---
The only problem I have with that is that the site is free. Why could you buy a book from Ubersite when you could rad it free?
I think you want to do a book, you need to do one taking the best Ubersite articles and making a book about 200 pages long. Pick the best Uber has to offer (mostly BAW, some underground stuff) and throw it in.
You could have some uniquely Uber entries to. Who here doesn't think "re: 16/yr olds" wouldn't be hilarious when the reader came by it on its own page, with its own chapter?
And of course, a section for the best -2's.
Maybe I'm overestimating what Uber has, but sites like www.realultimatepower.org get book deals. Throughout the 80,000+ articles on Ubersite, I think we could find 50, less or more, that would be print-worthy.
Forgive me if I'm thinking too large here, but we could even do seperate editions for comedy and for drama. Hell, some of the series here could probably be their own books altogether.
All I'm saying is bart, get a book deal with somebody. Give authors a hundred bucks or something for each of their stories you use, and then print the goddamn thing. I really want to see this happen.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:21:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
the thing is, though, look at a site like collegehumor.com. have you ever read the shit articles that are on that site? that site makes a good amount of money (i'm pretty) sure, unfortunately their site is also littered with ads and shit like that... so yeah... i guess i don't know...
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:19:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Spooner, using an external middle man is NOT the way to go. Every stage of the process would need to be controlled by Bart to make it worth it, except for manufacturing.
Buying in bulk direct from a manufacturer is WAY better than making, like, $1.50 off every $25.00 T-shirt. That's the downfall of going through such a site.
Plus, it makes the website crappier when you have to externally link.
The only upside to that is Bart wouldn't have to handle the shipping hassle, but if sales were good, it would be a worthwhile parttime moneymaker.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:14:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
How about this...
In order to open an uber store, we can all agree Bart would need capital.
What if Bart issued a certain number of "uber shares", just like stock.
Then, users who were interested in helping out the site could at the same time stand to make a little money in the end through what would amount to a profit-sharing program.
While this would only need last for a short time, it would be enough to give the investors a modest profit while getting the store off the ground.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:13:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
as do i, spooner. i've always thought one would be tight. but i think bart was talking more about making this site a place where authors could get "published" and paid for their work, and of course bart would make money off of it as well...
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-03-21 01:07:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Do you realize how much an actual Ubersite store would fucking rock? I've wanted one forever.
Forgive me for being naive, but I imagine the process could go along these lines...
1. User posts something insanely funny.
2. bart contacts user and says "that should be on a shirt or something."
3. bart and user pass around ideas for a short while
4. Third party, either a paid uber artist or a volunteer, draws up the design.
5. T-shirt/mug/mousepad/whatever goes into Uberstore and people buy it because it rocks.
6. Bart and user split profits.
A website like spreadshirt would be real good for that, I believe. I set up a little store of my own awhile ago, just messing around, and never got around to actually dealing with it. It would look kinda like this:
https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=20359
I haven't ordered anything from there, though, so I don't know of quality. But I really really really want an uberstore.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-21 00:55:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
merchandise? i know it wouldn't offer up a 100,000 grand a month, but the creative minds at ubersite could definitely come up with some good posters, t-shirts, and things of that nature.
as far as paying for service, like snark, i wouldn't do it. not that i've ever posted anywhere else on the web (save pH once or twice), i definitely don't see this as a service worth paying for, no offense bart. sorry if that comes off as snobbish, but the fact of the matter is there are enough places on the internet that i could go if i really wanted to.
of course, they aren't nearly as fucking awesome. i think i remember bart saying the "re: 16 y/olds" post was actually one of the best things posted on uber, and that if you didn't get that then you didn't get uber. i think if we're going to somehow manage to generate revenue, we've got to understand this concept: shit sells, especially on uber.
yeah doom code, the quality of uber has changed. i really wouldn't say that it's gone down, just that it's more dilluted because of the "free market" ability to create users. i guess you could argue that the requirement of charging a membership fee would bring the quality back up to standard, but what would you be doing then, making a website that specializes in what? users that post random shit that comes to their minds during the day? and then who rates the posts? do the posts get rated? are we still at ubersite?
fuck, i don't know. but i think the key is to finding a way to generate money off the crap posts. the really good posts will naturally make money under the same system.
i think, but i also don't know what the fuck i'm talking about... and i'm a huge douche for saying i wouldn't pay for ubersite, i'm sorry bart. thanks for everything.
yours forever,
wardy.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-03-21 00:34:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Kaos: Self-publish...or find an indie publisher. Fuck the man. The internet is the single greatest thing to happen to publishing since....ever. Good luck whatever you decide.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-03-20 22:12:11 (#)
Ranking: 2
If I knew of a way to raise mass amounts of money via Ubersite, the ideal result is that it would become a self publishing house in and of itself. Readers or some third party would pay for something and then people could get paid to write.
That was the idea with the ads, but the money from them thus far is enough to cover the actual server costs and not much more.
Does anyone have a good suggestion for how Ubersite could make ~$100,000 per month?
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$100,000 a month? hehehehehehehe
We need an uber census. Without knowing exactly how many actual members we have, it's impossible to know where we stand.
For one thing...you're seriously losing out by not shoving massive ads on Bored at Work. Not pop ups and other obtrusive crap, but it could still use more ads to take advantage of your casual internet traffic.
You are also seriously losing out by not having a store... Not a link to cafe press, and ACTUAL store with merchandise that will make money on the front and back end of the transaction. This is a lucrative angle because it's free advertising to people on the street if someone is wearing an ubersite.com T-shirt or hat, or is sporting an ubersite.com bumper sticker.
Any money making venture is going to require initial investment capital. You have to spend money to make money. I suggest a yearly membership fee to help offset the initial cost of startup, at least for one year.
I mean, who wouldn't want an "ETS is God" T-shirt? What? Nobody? :(
I also suggest making use of your administrative powers by making it a practice to create official ubersite merchandise based on popular ubersite material.
RE: 16 yr Olds comes to mind...
You need to include a legal disclaimer when people sign up that while they own the copyright to their material, you reserve the right to use such material for promotional purposes.
Yea, I got lots of ideas, but they will require you to take a more active role in promotion.
Priority #1 should be reversing the current deflation of uber population. You have to get our numbers back on the rise somehow. Promotion outside the web is one good way to do that.
What you want to do is get people who aren't used to surfing the web to remember this site when they sit down in a computer chair thinking of somewhere to go.
When numbers are up sufficiently, then it might be possible to make substantial money from this site.
You know, you could also work out something where you strike distribution deals with those of the uber contingent who produce their own books, CDs, magazines, art, etc.
Who wouldn't want the opportunity to have their own room in the uber store? And who wouldn't be willing to pay a nominal fee to ubersite (i.e. Bart Cilfone) for the priviledge? The beauty of that is, it would essentially be free money for you and free advertising for them on a website that gets far more traffic than their personal website most likely.
I mean, who wouldn't want an autographed, limited edition, numbered copy of Kaos King's first novel, or Snark's, or a Circe children's book? ...or an ETS album? What? Damn. :(
Plus, it's just a common law of sorts to sell easier to those who know you somewhat personally.
When you get to a certain point in that venture, you might then be able to actually take a more active role in the production of such material...kinda like indie record labels do. They often start out just distributing albums, then they venture into actual production deals.
Possibilities are only limited by the imagination.
This is how empires are started...from the ground up.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-03-21 00:05:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-21 00:00:51 (#)
Ranking: 2
and then there is the thought of paying for "features"
As in - I decide what nice parts of uber I'd like to have and if they are worth a small/monthly charge.
Like the best ever list, or the new "label" feature.
Barebones uber with ads free, and a fee for each added benefit?
=================================
Nah. It would be a mistake to take away things people get already. They'll just walk. Myself included.
The trick is to offer something more than what is already here. Something worth paying for... hell, porn sites do it all the time.
Those fuckers have been making money of the Intranet long before anyone else.
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-21 00:00:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
and then there is the thought of paying for "features"
As in - I decide what nice parts of uber I'd like to have and if they are worth a small/monthly charge.
Like the best ever list, or the new "label" feature.
Barebones uber with ads free, and a fee for each added benefit?
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:59:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The pay per view thing is being done. I don't know that it's very succesful.
http://www.horrormasters.com/
I'm supposedly going to be featured there in a month or so. I can let you know if anyone pays for the stuff he posts.
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:56:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
On the flip side of that series thing - I'd pay a dollar not to have to contantly click back to user info every single time I'm done with a section. MUCH rather just read and click "next" or read with only notation breaks to indicate the next part of the series.
Particularly in the long series that are over 12 posts - and these tend to be the most worth reading.
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:54:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Shandy - I don't know about that.
I'm not necessarily going to believe a particular author is worth as much as he/she thinks they are.
And I'd rather pay a blanket price than have to judge which posts are worth the asking price from the title/author.
And what about series? Some of the posts are merely transitional pieces - and so, not worth much on thier own. I'd pay for a whole series rather than a single post.
But I want to make sure I'm not getting crap or something that hasn't/won't be completed.
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:52:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i will respond to idqd in due course, he seems to make some good points, but there is a dog and child crises of some sort
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:51:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:35:54 (#)
Ranking: 2
how would people pay, though...some sort of uber bank so that they could withdraw instantly per click. i doubt people would have to go through paypal over a 2 cent post.
excellent point - i don't know. is it possible to have a bank like that? i guess gambling sites must do that.
also i think 2 cents might be too small. 25c seems a good amount. unless there was some way authors could actually set their own prices per post.
ie, std avante garde fair aims at an elite upmarket crowd, willing to fork out five big ones per read, whereas your sideburns and co woulod be goiugn for the 1c crowd
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:46:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
as it is, i jsut dont think the content of uber is good enough. there are some decent enough pieces of writing, but i genuinely dont think people will be willing to pay even the paltry sum of $1 to read anything on the site.
most of the people that come here are looking to kill time. this is evidenced by the suffusion of bandwagons that spring up all over the front page with such monotonous regularity. these people who represent the huge majority of users are not here for the 'quality' pieces of writing, they are here for the 'shit', by and large.
added to this, it has been mentioned to me that uber in the past 6 months has been declining in member numbers (notwithstanding the spike from teh ms paint post). how can we make money from a declining population? what is that we offer that people cant get for free anywhere else on the web?
well, now, in my honest opinion its nothing. we offer nothing that people dont get everywhere else all over the web. maybe once upon a time there may have been something, but i think that ship has sailed. the issue here is the internet itself. while it offers us a space to create sites like uber, it - by its very nature - makes it availiable to everyone and everything. which is both a good and a bad thing. the good is self-evident, so ill explain the bad.
its bad because the general public is exactly that - general. we all tend toward the mediocre (dont think for a second i disinclude myself from this generalisation). this means that instead of the front page we used to see, which usually had a quite a few interesting and creative articles for the reader to peruse, we now have SPT. we have emus and rabbits replacing actual humour. its like the little corner shops you used to know being replaced by big, homogenous malls.
and it is like high school - an image that has been used frequently to describe this place. people latch onto these homogenous concepts in order to 'fit in', possibly due to the harshness of older members to new members and the frankly ridiculous concept of the ubersite 'noob'. maybe as a pre-emptive strike against the anticipated harshness, these people turn to the 'shit posts' to mitigate their own percieved inadequacies or whatever. maybe like a "you cant call em shit, cos i already know its shit, its shit on purpose" action, in order to 'dip their toes' into the metaphorical waters of ubersite.
whatever it is, ubersite does not as it stands at the moment have a product that i think is worth paying for.
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:46:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
but only on UBERWHORE, Shandy.
You'd still be loved and -2DIE!'ed on regular Uber...
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:38:44 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
so if you had enough people like crystal willing to blow five bucks a month on UBERWHORE.com, and i would probably budget a bit more than that, in theory an author could reap a decent bit of dosh. given that some post apparently get all these tens of thousands of hits. even one hundred paid hits at 25 cents a pop equals $25. a thousand paid hits, if my maths is up to it, would be $250
sadly, it could mean the death of my avante garde style that is so popular
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:38:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
haha, crystle is in my camp.
Pen 1 spunk 0
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:37:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
that last remark was directed towards shandy
...
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:35:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
how would people pay, though...some sort of uber bank so that they could withdraw instantly per click. i doubt people would have to go through paypal over a 2 cent post.
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:35:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
(as a point of view from a readers perspective, rather than a writers)
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:33:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I dunno 'bout making ~100,000 a month but I'm willing to throw a few bucks at individuals that have posted series that I enjoy.
Bart, if you could host a paypal account where people could earmark who the funds are for and then pay them the funds from "uber" couldn't that work?
In this case, all Kaos really needs is $25 bucks for some credibility. I've read enough to know he's got the creativity and drive to make it. I'd put in 5 bucks. I'm sure at least 4 others would as well.
And I'd do the same for several other authors, if they had a solid publishing/business reason they needed the money.
I'm not sure I'd pay a buck to read a post that I'm not certain of though. But I'd do $5 a month for access to GOOD writing - as long as there is continually enough new content.
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:27:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i think it would be good if uberpremium or uberprofessional or ubercunthot (perhaps a contest to find a name?)had a free opening screen. ie, anyone could browse the list of titles (perhaps including a couple of lines the author could use to describe/promote their post) for free. the reader only has to pay when they click on a particular post to read it.
i think that would be better than having a site you could only get into by subscription or something.
and it would also supply ready made and significant statistics about each author's records.
it may be that the money should start very small - so a night on uber premium reading a few posts would only cost a reader small change.
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:21:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Shandy the spunk man talking economics makes me piddle myself.
Honestly, why not run it like espn insider. You could have a subscription service attached to ubersite, where people can pay for option of reading posts made specifically for that service. I'd imagine that people would be more likely to pay 5 bucks a month to read all the "special content" than pay a dollar for a single post. There's less fear that you are wasting your money and more opportunity for a reader to think he is getting value for his subscription..
As for posting in the paid section, you could make that totally free. Incentive would come from the hits they generate. At the end of the month you could take top 20 and divide 10 percent of the revenue.
Also, to inspire people to write in the free section, you could offer bonuses. when someone signs up for a subcription, you could have them list three of the authors that are making them want to. Those that already paid for subscriptions can submit their favorites, too, at the end of each month. the authors that get the most love can get the bonuses.
*authors would write in the free section to advertize their ability
*they'd write in the paid section to try to get a chunk of the revenue
and people in both sections would try harder and the quailty would go up.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:04:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
sort of.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:03:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
A thought that Shandy was already on top of...
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-03-20 23:02:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-03-20 22:12:11 (#)
Ranking: 2
If I knew of a way to raise mass amounts of money via Ubersite, the ideal result is that it would become a self publishing house in and of itself. Readers or some third party would pay for something and then people could get paid to write.
That was the idea with the ads, but the money from them thus far is enough to cover the actual server costs and not much more.
Does anyone have a good suggestion for how Ubersite could make ~$100,000 per month?
====================
Have you considered adding a premium portion to the site? Keep regular Uber just as it is so the people here don't feel like they're losing anything. Make entrance into the premium site for those willing to pay or for writer's you feel would contibute to it in the way you envision.
Getting a free pass into the Premium portion could be something people could strive towards much like they do to get on B@W. It might even make a nice prize for winning UM.
All sorts of possibilities open up with what could be done with the premium portion after that, as far as paying customers, and possible rewards for succesfully contributing writers.
Anyways.
Just a thought off the top of my head.
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-20 22:44:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
$100000 might be a bit far fetched at this stage
first idea that comwes to mind,which has been tossed around soemhere before in some form or another, would be to have a pay for view section.
to cover costs of this new section (which i guess wouldn't be much as it could strucutrally be very similar to ubersite)anyone who wants to post on the pay section pays a fee of a dollar or two for the priviledge.
so you could have a pay for view site where if you want to actually click on a post and read it you have to pay 1 dollar or 50cents or something per read. this could operate as a mirror site to uber, and people could spruik their posts on uber if they wanted by including a free extract and advert saying 'to read more of this, go to mirror site and pay 50 cents'.
if you were confident enough of your readership, you could just post directly onto the pay site and hope cunts will read it just on the strength of your reputation.
i doubut this would have any negative effect on ubesite, as people would soon give up spruiking posts if it got them nowehre and noone read them, and just return to posting on uber as per usual.
ranking etc froma new pay for view mirror site would also become actually meaninguful: ie, shandtythedog is UberProfessional's no1 ranked author with sales of 234 dollars for the month, incuding a record dollars in a seven day period.
i'm not sure if i've got this idea across properly, i'm in a rush to pick up boy from school, but it seems to be a good idea and if need be i will return and try to explain it again.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-03-20 22:12:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
If I knew of a way to raise mass amounts of money via Ubersite, the ideal result is that it would become a self publishing house in and of itself. Readers or some third party would pay for something and then people could get paid to write.
That was the idea with the ads, but the money from them thus far is enough to cover the actual server costs and not much more.
Does anyone have a good suggestion for how Ubersite could make ~$100,000 per month?
Submitted by Benny (user info) at 2006-03-20 21:42:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Dude that sucks that you've been having a rough time trying to get published.
Even if the "splatter punk" place sounds shitty maybe it would be a start to get something published. Have you looked at some of the work that the company has published? If it isn't total crap then it would be worth giving them something just so that you can join the HWA (having sold something for $25 or more). At this point I think you should go for what you can (everybody has to start somewhere).
Above all else don't give up what ever you do.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-03-20 20:50:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i wouldnt consider self-publishing until you manage to get your work published by someone who is willing to pay you for the privelege.
if you head straight down the self-publish road, there will be a question-mark over your head, no matter what you do. get published, prove that you can 'cut it', then try the self-publishnig route.
seriously, i think its time for writers to move away from publishing houses. they have been screwing over writers for centuries, making hyothetical amounts of money and driving men like poe and hp lovecraft to unneccessary (even for their art) depths of despair and poverty.
i would like to see a time where there weer NO publishing houses. and i think that time could be very very soon.
good luck dude, its tough, but like every great writer ever, you jsut gotta fight it out. youll get there, or at least youll haev an interestingly miserable life and get there post-mortem.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-03-20 20:35:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Don't fucking sweat it.
There's no accounting for taste.
take Shlongy for example. I think I'm hilarious and I love myself.
Most of Uber doesn't.
Now obviously, they're wrong and bunch of fucking idiots so I don't let them stop me from persuing my dream of world domination, coupled with world annoyance.
Submitted by shandythedog (user info) at 2006-03-20 20:27:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
good stuff
the self-publishing question is an interesting one.
there are quite a few examples of writers who started off that way - i think dickens might have been one.
you would think, with all this fucking cheap technology now, things would actually favour self publishing more.
anywqy, good luck
Submitted by thecaes (user info) at 2006-03-20 20:23:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This was disheartening.
But keep at it, man.
Submitted by blueboy (user info) at 2006-03-20 19:16:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Glad to hear you are relatively well, you know minus the can't getting published driving you to commit homocide on asians.
Submitted by JustPassingBy (user info) at 2006-03-20 18:24:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Good Luck.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:40:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Baby Steps.
Get a couple short stories out there first, and by 'Out There' I mean not on the internet.
You need to build up a portfolio. You need to get published before getting on the whole 'Looka me. I gots a Book writ' bandwagon.
Everyone has written a book. Get the Writers Market and read what publishers say about how many submissions they get. It's no wonder the big guys only go through agents.
At least that's what my research showed.
Keep anything you hope to publish off the internet man. I found that out early.
Don't pigeon hole yourself as a horror writer. You can pick and choose once you got some credits under your belt.
Or ignore what I've said above. (I would)
Submitted by DrRobertHand (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:36:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I'll give you a buck. I support anyone who won't play by the rules. Most blacklists of this type should have the bold header at top say "Intelligent Humans :("
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:32:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i feel for ya. at least your trying.
i know a college friend who has gotten a few things published in e-zines, and recently had something picked up by a quarterly. he isn't making a living, but i got to say he's certainly starting to impress me. All it takes is persistence. keep at it.
Submitted by Crystle (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:31:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Welcome back.
and what if Ubersite paid you $25 for you works published here?
I'm sure we could raise that much for you.. maybe ease the crap. You do deserve to be published, and if this counts as self-publishing, why shouldn't money collected from uber count as payment for publishing?
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:24:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Winston Zeddemore: Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say "yes"!
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:23:07 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
getting published is a bitch. you've just got to keep going at it. and yes, the self-publishing route is generally not recommended.
love,
wardy.
Submitted by ghola (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:21:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i'm sorry sir.
i've heard it's very tough shit in the beginning.
keep at it.
post a freaking story once in a while too. of course that might fuck you up, but eh...
Submitted by sizzlemctwizzle (user info) at 2006-03-20 17:19:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Anyhow, I've been trying to get my shit actually published, along with running a website for horror writers.
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What's the name of the website. I've actually thought about writing a horror story.